Re: [time-nuts] HP Stories: Frequency Counter business decline, Modulation Domain Analyzers, geeks as models

2019-01-21 Thread Magnus Danielson
Hi Hugh, Enjoying your stories. On 2019-01-21 01:57, Rice, Hugh (IPH Writing Systems) wrote: Like all breakthrough measurements, the next 20+ years was spent refining the concept. Better "front end" amplifiers, able to measure low amplitude signals. Faster counters, that could capture

Re: [time-nuts] Calculating time of lunar eclipse

2019-01-21 Thread jimlux
On 1/21/19 9:18 AM, jimlux wrote: egregious error cauhgt Here in Southern California, it was about 9PM local, so we were farther away from the moon than folks on the US East Coast watching at local midnight. Why that's almost 2000km - 6 microseconds. 6 milliseconds..

Re: [time-nuts] HP Stories: Frequency Counter business

2019-01-21 Thread paul swed
Been seriously enjoying the discussion. Especially the insights of HP. I have several 5245 and 5248Ms (Better oven osc) Just had to do a few minor repairs over Christmas. That said the binary counter to nixie decoders are just a crazy engineering marvel. Neon bulbs light that change a photo cell

Re: [time-nuts] Ublox F9P multi-band GPS receiver

2019-01-21 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi At least at this point things like sawtooth correction outputs are still a “who knows if there is one” kind of thing. Doing a GPSDO and not having sawtooth corrected out is sort of a letdown …. Stuff gets better from L1 / L2, but then gets worse when you put hanging bridges back in …. Keep

Re: [time-nuts] HP Stories: Frequency Counter business

2019-01-21 Thread Dave Mallery
in high school, i had a summer job at the NYU EE dept up in the Bronx campus (where my dad taught english!) this was the summer of 1956 and 57. in the lab equipment issuing room there lived a 524 with the vertical neon lites. along with a plethora of other now ancient equipment. long ago in a

Re: [time-nuts] Metastability

2019-01-21 Thread Magnus Danielson
Hi Rick, On 2019-01-21 16:31, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: I designed a state machine running on a 32 MHz clock to resync 4 MHz clock edges.  A number of engineers know just enough to be dangerous and suggested the technique is to just make a shift register and run the incoming edge through

Re: [time-nuts] Ublox F9P multi-band GPS receiver

2019-01-21 Thread Tom Knox
Hopefully Jackson Labs (If possible) will offer an update of their M12M replacement that I believe currently uses M8T. I have been preparing for this inevitable evolution for a while updating all my antenna system with all band GNSS antennas, distribution amps, as well as fiber links I use to

Re: [time-nuts] Ublox F9P multi-band GPS receiver

2019-01-21 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi Here’s an ad for a somewhat different antenna with some barely readable bandwidth testing data:

Re: [time-nuts] Ublox F9P multi-band GPS receiver

2019-01-21 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi My first though was that something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/CORS-RTK-GNSS-Survey-Antenna-high-gain-measurement-GNSS-GPS-GLONASS-BDS/253786590956?hash=item3b16dc0eec:g:p8sAAOSwu7hbNoe0:rk:1:pf:0

Re: [time-nuts] Ublox F9P multi-band GPS receiver

2019-01-21 Thread J. Grizzard
Per the integration guide (https://www.u-blox.com/sites/default/files/ZED-F9P_IntegrationManual_%28UBX-18010802%29.pdf), the recommended antenna should be between 30dB and 40dB of gain. Additional note: ublox is releasing an eval board (p/n C099-F9P) which is similar to the sparkfun board,

Re: [time-nuts] HP Stories: Frequency Counter business

2019-01-21 Thread Don
http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1951-01.pdf On Mon, 2019-01-21 at 14:15 -0500, Gordon Batey wrote: > Greetings to all, > > I believe that was the HP 525 counter.  I had one as my first > counter  > which I picked up surplus many years ago.  It had several plug-ins > for > different 

Re: [time-nuts] HP Stories: Frequency Counter business

2019-01-21 Thread Don Murray via time-nuts
I was spoiled... I spent 3 years in Ethiopia, '65 - '68, with the ArmySecurity Agency.  Our shop looked like a TEK andHP Catalog!!  Our FREQ REF rack was the GSQ-53A,dual Sulzer 5MHz ovenized oscillators which we phase compared against GBR on 16KHz. We ran the phase chart 24/7 to make sure we

Re: [time-nuts] HP Stories: Frequency Counter business

2019-01-21 Thread vilgotch
Hi all, That would be a 524B counter, all 90 tubes (depending on the plugin) and 600 watts of it. I still have one in going condition but it's not to be used in the Australian summer with 42C forecast for later this week. The ovenised 100 KHz vacuum mounted crystal in it still performs pretty

Re: [time-nuts] Ublox F9P multi-band GPS receiver

2019-01-21 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi Taking a quick look at what’s in view right now, the GPS L2C population is about half of the total. The L5 population is about half of the L2C group. No idea if that is true of the entire fleet. Also no idea if my snow covered antennas are throwing things off a bit. All of the Glonass

Re: [time-nuts] Calculating time of lunar eclipse

2019-01-21 Thread John Hawkinson
Is it not the case that atmospheric effects end up shifting the time of observation by several seconds depending on location and condition? I was going to write, "We should be weary of specifying precision we do not have," but rather it maybe better to write, "Perhaps we should be explicit

Re: [time-nuts] Ublox F9P multi-band GPS receiver

2019-01-21 Thread Michael Wouters
If you scroll down to the bottom of the product pages for the zed-f9x modules, you'll see the 'ANN-MB', a L1/L2/E5b antenna that ublox is presumably making to go with the ZED-F9. It's still marked 'preorder' Cheers Michael On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 at 6:00 am, Bob kb8tq wrote: > Hi > > To be more

Re: [time-nuts] Ublox F9P multi-band GPS receiver

2019-01-21 Thread MLewis
Like these? http://www.tallysman.com/index.php/gnss/products/antennas-triple-band/ On 21/01/2019 12:33 PM, Bob kb8tq wrote: Hi To be more precise, what you want is a L1/L2/L5 triple band antenna. Bob On Jan 21, 2019, at 11:32 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: Hi Based on the F9P data sheet, you will

Re: [time-nuts] HP Stories: Frequency Counter business

2019-01-21 Thread Gordon Batey
Greetings to all, I believe that was the HP 525 counter. I had one as my first counter which I picked up surplus many years ago. It had several plug-ins for different frequency ranges. Kept the basement warm in the winter time. The vhf plugin was a heterodyne mixer as I recall. This unit

Re: [time-nuts] Calculating sidereal time

2019-01-21 Thread Björn
Hi Brooke, SV position in circular orbit repeats at 12h sidereal, but ground relative az/el repeats at 24h sidereal. This is because of the earth 24h rotation rate. After 12h your earth position will be 180deg away from (inertil) start position. — Björn Sent from my iPhone > On 21 Jan

Re: [time-nuts] Ublox F9P multi-band GPS receiver

2019-01-21 Thread Bob via time-nuts
Hi     Just purchased one of the 100 bux  10 MHz/1pps GPS units.  Seems to fire up and lock ok, but wondering if anyone else has experience with these rascals.  Bought mine from an Amazon source.  I've got it hooked up to my HP Hi Rez counter (can't recall the model number)  Have not had time

Re: [time-nuts] Calculating time of lunar eclipse

2019-01-21 Thread jimlux
On 1/21/19 5:50 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: Hi, On 2019-01-21 08:07, Mark Sims wrote: While on the subject of the accuracy/reliability of various algorithms and web pages showing various astronomical data, we had a full moon / total lunar eclipse in the northern hemisphere.  And not just any

Re: [time-nuts] Ublox F9P multi-band GPS receiver

2019-01-21 Thread Ole Petter Rønningen
Indeed. Getting a *quality* antenna with that coverage will likely be a more costly affair than getting the actual receiver.. Of course, a cheap puck-style antenna is an option, but I am curious as to what improvements will actually be observed, at least for the time being - IIRC only about

Re: [time-nuts] Ublox F9P multi-band GPS receiver

2019-01-21 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi To be more precise, what you want is a L1/L2/L5 triple band antenna. Bob > On Jan 21, 2019, at 11:32 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: > > Hi > > Based on the F9P data sheet, you will need an L1 / L2 antenna that is wide > enough > to get the Galileo E5B as well as the Glonass L1OF and L2OF bands.

Re: [time-nuts] Ublox F9P multi-band GPS receiver

2019-01-21 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi Based on the F9P data sheet, you will need an L1 / L2 antenna that is wide enough to get the Galileo E5B as well as the Glonass L1OF and L2OF bands. The gotcha is that (so far) I have not found a gain number for the target antenna. As we have found on other modules, you do want to get the

[time-nuts] Metastability (was: Re: HP Stories: Frequency Counter business decline, Modulation Domain Analyzers, geeks as models)

2019-01-21 Thread Richard (Rick) Karlquist
Circa 1982: After the cancellation of the HP 10816 mini rubidium product, I worked on the 5183 "Waveform Recorder" (the name was a euphemism to deflect charter wars with the scope division which was just getting into digital scopes). I was tasked with designing a DRAM memory board, to replace

Re: [time-nuts] Ublox F9P multi-band GPS receiver

2019-01-21 Thread Graham / KE9H
What kind of antenna is needed to simultaneously hear all of the systems at once? My PCTel GPS antenna has a filter that limits it to only the US GPS system. --- Graham == On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 4:01 AM Dustin Marquess wrote: > If DigiKey's pricing is accurate, the ZED-F9T is $13.89 more

Re: [time-nuts] Calculating time of lunar eclipse

2019-01-21 Thread Magnus Danielson
Hi, On 2019-01-21 08:07, Mark Sims wrote: While on the subject of the accuracy/reliability of various algorithms and web pages showing various astronomical data, we had a full moon / total lunar eclipse in the northern hemisphere. And not just any full moon, but a Super Blood Werewolf

Re: [time-nuts] Ublox F9P multi-band GPS receiver

2019-01-21 Thread Bob kb8tq
Hi Ok, so the “product summary” page on DigiKey very clearly shows the frequency coverage information. If that data sheet was on SparkFun …. I must have gone right past it. The equivalent F9T sheet starts out right at the top talking about correcting ionosphere delay to deliver better timing.

Re: [time-nuts] HP Stories: Frequency Counter business decline, Modulation Domain Analyzers, geeks as models

2019-01-21 Thread Neville Michie
Hi, I used an HP counter in 1961 that had these vertical strings of neon tubes behind numbers, and the two least significant decimals were read off two milliamp meters numbered 0 to 10. For each count the needles would point to the number to be read. The whole instrument was a 2 foot cube that

Re: [time-nuts] Calculating time of lunar eclipse

2019-01-21 Thread Chris Burford
Mr. Eclipse, hosted by Fred Espenak, is your go-to page for this. The data for both solar and lunar eclipse events seems to be accurate based on my experience of past events. http://www.eclipsewise.com/lunar/LEprime/2001-2100/LE2019Jan21Tprime.html Mark Sims wrote: > While on the

Re: [time-nuts] Calculating time of lunar eclipse

2019-01-21 Thread Bill Beam
According to my copy of Guide9 (Pluto project) full moon occurred at 21 Jan 05:16:04 UTC. On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 07:07:31 +, Mark Sims wrote: >While on the subject of the accuracy/reliability of various algorithms and web >pages showing various astronomical data, we had a full moon / total

Re: [time-nuts] Ublox F9P multi-band GPS receiver

2019-01-21 Thread Dustin Marquess
If DigiKey's pricing is accurate, the ZED-F9T is $13.89 more than a ZED-F9P. I would have gladly paid $14 more for a version of the SparkFun board using the T(iming) version instead :(. On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 12:10 AM Bob kb8tq wrote: > > Hi > > From a *very* quick read of the doc’s: > > 1)

[time-nuts] GPS satellite orbits (was: Calculating sidereal time)

2019-01-21 Thread Mark Sims
I also expected that, but when I added the ability of Lady Heather to plot the SNR/az/el/carrier phase/pseudorange of a given satellite, I found that they repeat every 24-ish hours. At 12-ish hours the SNR and time the receiver had usable signal was greatly reduced. >The

Re: [time-nuts] HP Stories: Frequency Counter business decline, Modulation Domain Analyzers, geeks as models

2019-01-21 Thread Bruce Griffiths
https://www.arl.wustl.edu/~jst/cse/260/glitchChaney.pdf suggests metastability was noticed in the 1940's but not taken seriously for decades thereafter. Bruce > On 21 January 2019 at 19:10 Hal Murray wrote: > > > > When did people designing counter/timers start paying attention to >

[time-nuts] Ublox F9P multi-band GPS receiver

2019-01-21 Thread Mark Sims
> It is clearly multi-band for GPS. It is unclear from a quick read if it is > multi-band for the other systems. Here's what they say it supports: 184-channel u-blox F9 engine GPS L1C/A L2C, GLO L1OF L2OF, GAL E1B/C E5b, BDS B1I B2I, QZSS L1C/A L2C Here's the link to the Sparkfun device.