Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Magnus Danielson]

On 08/20/2017 10:50 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:


In message 

Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi,

On 08/19/2017 09:04 PM, Ole Petter Ronningen wrote:

Hello

I just stumbled across this:
https://www.muquans.com/index.php/products/mclock

A commercially available cold atom rubidium clock! My apologies if this has
already been reported on the list.


When we saw it in their booth during the EFTF-IFCS conference, they 
where reluctant to give a price. Seems it just getting out on the 
market. It is indeed an interesting option.


I would like to know more about the details of operation, to see what 
capabilities it has to be built into an operations environment.


It would also be interesting to see how the long-term looks as measured 
against TAI/UTC.


Cheers,
Magnus
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message 

Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[paul swed]

It hasn't been discussed before that I can recall.
But its a cold RB clock and though it stable its still a secondary
reference.
Bob your right its interesting that the sales locations are in China and
India. Perhaps a larger opportunity for a RB reference today.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Located just outside Bordeaux ….. ROAD TRIP 
>
> I don’t think there’s been much mentioned about them before. It’s
> interesting that their
> main sales thrust so far seems to be China and India.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Aug 19, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Ole Petter Ronningen 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello
> >
> > I just stumbled across this:
> > https://www.muquans.com/index.php/products/mclock
> >
> > A commercially available cold atom rubidium clock! My apologies if this
> has
> > already been reported on the list.
> >
> > Ole
> > ___
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

Located just outside Bordeaux ….. ROAD TRIP 

I don’t think there’s been much mentioned about them before. It’s interesting 
that their
main sales thrust so far seems to be China and India.

Bob

> On Aug 19, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Ole Petter Ronningen  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello
> 
> I just stumbled across this:
> https://www.muquans.com/index.php/products/mclock
> 
> A commercially available cold atom rubidium clock! My apologies if this has
> already been reported on the list.
> 
> Ole
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)HP5065A

[timeok]

> Hi Jim,
> 
> first of all verify all the capacitors installed. Refer to:
> 
> http://www.timeok.it/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/First-aid-when-you-buy-a
> n-hp5065A-v-1.2.pdf[1]
> 
> Luciano
> 




> On Mon 07/12/15 05:30 , "Jim/Anna McIntyre"  wrote:
> 
> > Greetings all,
> > My name is Jim, I'm a Noob to your list. A local DoD contractor unloaded
> a
> > heap of test equipment lately, and I scored a 5065A. It's s/n
> 1532A00666,
> > has an Olive green-ish RVFR, and a 00105-6103, series 1284 Quartz
> > oscillator.
> >
> > I have had the instrument powered up for about an hour now. (I first
> > checked the +/- 20V supplies and they're OK.) I have a 1A source
> connected
> > to the TE lines.
> > At the end of the 1st hour here's what I'm seeing (Open Loop Mode).
> >
> > Batt 48
> > Supply 38
> > Lamp Oven 30 (down from 50)
> > Cell Oven 30 (down from 50)
> > Osc Oven 44 (down from 50)
> > Photo 28
> > 5 MHz 32
> > Control, Error, 2nd Harmonic all read 0
> >
> > I adjusted the Quartz Coarse control to be within 10-7. Fine is set to
> > 250. Synth output measures 5.315 005 728 MHz, and is about 1.8 Vpp.
> >
> > Control, Error, 2nd Harmonic all read 0 after I switch to Closed Loop
> and
> > hit 'Start'
> >
> > Please advise on next steps...
> >
> > Thanks
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts [2] [1]
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> >
> >
> > Links:
> > --
> > [1]
> >
> http://webmail.timeok.it/parse.php?redirect=https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ma
> [3]
> > ilman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >
> Message sent via Atmail Open - http://atmail.org/ [4])
> 
> 
> 
> Links:
> --
> [1]
> http://webmail.timeok.it/parse.php?redirect=http://www.timeok.it/wp/wp-cont
> ent/uploads/2015/09/First-aid-when-you-buy-an-hp5065A-v-1.2.pdf[2]
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> http://webmail.timeok.it/parse.php?redirect=http://atmail.org/
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject) - HP 5065A

[Jim/Anna McIntyre]

Well, no breakthroughs to report.  I started by looking at A8 (the Phase
Detector/274 Hz oscillator).  It seems to be OK, but has no 137 Hz error
signal coming in from the A7 amplifier.  The A7 amp seems OK, at least it
passes the 'Quick Check' mentioned in the service manual. (That consists of
looking at the A7 output and touching the input pin with a metal tool to
induce some 60Hz hum).

I do see some 2nd harmonic indication on the meter, but it's pretty
sporadic - and very vibration sensitive.  If I tap on the RVFR, the meter
will swing upscale.  But is soon drops back to zero.  Normal?  Or a clue as
to what's wrong?

I usually see nothing at A7 TP1, but if I tap on the RVFR I get bursts of
noise.  Other components are somewhat microphonic too, but the RVFR seems
to be the most sensitive.







On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 12:21 PM, Jim/Anna McIntyre 
wrote:

> Thanks for adding the subject in.  I'm not used to this format, and
> forgot...
>
> Sadly, no clock.  It does have a battery, and luckily it hasn't leaked.
> I've already received a few emails with some tips, and will post an update
> soon.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Jim
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 9:26 AM, J. L. Trantham  wrote:
>
>> Jim/Anna,
>>
>> I took the liberty of adding 'HP 5065A' to the subject line to help
>> others.
>>
>> Sounds like a nice 'find'.  There are many experts here regarding the
>> 5065A.  I'm a 'novice'.
>>
>> There are several manuals on the net.  You can find one manual here:
>>
>> http://www.ko4bb.com/manuals/207.98.180.176/HP_5065A_Manual.pdf
>>
>> Did the 'CONTINOUS OPERATION' light come on when you hit 'LOGIC RESET'
>> after switching to 'OPERATE'?  If so, sounds like it is working.  If not,
>> might want to check the light to make sure it's not burned out.  For that
>> matter, might want to check all the lights.
>>
>> What options does it have?  Clock?  Internal battery, as shown by a
>> 'Battery' lamp on the panel to the right of the door?
>>
>> If it has a battery, might want to remove it and make sure the NiCd's
>> haven't leaked.
>>
>> I suspect you have already measured the 5 MHz, 1 MHz, and 100 KHz outputs.
>>
>> These are nice units.  Good luck and welcome to the group.
>>
>> Happy Holidays!
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of
>> Jim/Anna McIntyre
>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 10:31 PM
>> To: time-nuts@febo.com
>> Subject: [time-nuts] (no subject)
>>
>> Greetings all,
>> My name is Jim, I'm a Noob to your list.  A local DoD contractor unloaded
>> a heap of test equipment lately, and I scored a 5065A.  It's s/n
>> 1532A00666, has an Olive green-ish RVFR, and a 00105-6103, series 1284
>> Quartz oscillator.
>>
>> I have had the instrument powered up for about an hour now. (I first
>> checked the +/- 20V supplies and they're OK.)  I have a 1A source connected
>> to the TE lines.
>> At the end of the 1st hour here's what I'm seeing (Open Loop Mode).
>>
>>
>> Batt 48
>> Supply 38
>> Lamp Oven 30 (down from 50)
>> Cell Oven 30 (down from 50)
>> Osc Oven 44 (down from 50)
>> Photo 28
>> 5 MHz 32
>> Control, Error, 2nd Harmonic all read 0
>>
>>
>> I adjusted the Quartz Coarse control to be within 10-7.  Fine is set to
>> 250.  Synth output measures 5.315 005 728 MHz, and is about 1.8 Vpp.
>>
>> Control, Error, 2nd Harmonic all read 0 after I switch to Closed Loop and
>> hit 'Start'
>>
>> Please advise on next steps...
>>
>> Thanks
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>> ___
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>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject) - HP 5065A

[paul swed]

Jim
Yes the A7 is sensitive. I actually injected 137 and 274 into it and as I
recall the signal was very small to get large readings. Sorry do not recall
the level.
So if the tail ends working then it gets tricky because the possibility is
the RF side of the puzzle. I have no idea what equipment you may have so a
bit hard to guess what approach to use. ( I am ignoring the obvious because
thats just no fun at all.)
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 11:03 PM, Jim/Anna McIntyre 
wrote:

> Well, no breakthroughs to report.  I started by looking at A8 (the Phase
> Detector/274 Hz oscillator).  It seems to be OK, but has no 137 Hz error
> signal coming in from the A7 amplifier.  The A7 amp seems OK, at least it
> passes the 'Quick Check' mentioned in the service manual. (That consists of
> looking at the A7 output and touching the input pin with a metal tool to
> induce some 60Hz hum).
>
> I do see some 2nd harmonic indication on the meter, but it's pretty
> sporadic - and very vibration sensitive.  If I tap on the RVFR, the meter
> will swing upscale.  But is soon drops back to zero.  Normal?  Or a clue as
> to what's wrong?
>
> I usually see nothing at A7 TP1, but if I tap on the RVFR I get bursts of
> noise.  Other components are somewhat microphonic too, but the RVFR seems
> to be the most sensitive.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 12:21 PM, Jim/Anna McIntyre 
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for adding the subject in.  I'm not used to this format, and
> > forgot...
> >
> > Sadly, no clock.  It does have a battery, and luckily it hasn't leaked.
> > I've already received a few emails with some tips, and will post an
> update
> > soon.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 9:26 AM, J. L. Trantham  wrote:
> >
> >> Jim/Anna,
> >>
> >> I took the liberty of adding 'HP 5065A' to the subject line to help
> >> others.
> >>
> >> Sounds like a nice 'find'.  There are many experts here regarding the
> >> 5065A.  I'm a 'novice'.
> >>
> >> There are several manuals on the net.  You can find one manual here:
> >>
> >> http://www.ko4bb.com/manuals/207.98.180.176/HP_5065A_Manual.pdf
> >>
> >> Did the 'CONTINOUS OPERATION' light come on when you hit 'LOGIC RESET'
> >> after switching to 'OPERATE'?  If so, sounds like it is working.  If
> not,
> >> might want to check the light to make sure it's not burned out.  For
> that
> >> matter, might want to check all the lights.
> >>
> >> What options does it have?  Clock?  Internal battery, as shown by a
> >> 'Battery' lamp on the panel to the right of the door?
> >>
> >> If it has a battery, might want to remove it and make sure the NiCd's
> >> haven't leaked.
> >>
> >> I suspect you have already measured the 5 MHz, 1 MHz, and 100 KHz
> outputs.
> >>
> >> These are nice units.  Good luck and welcome to the group.
> >>
> >> Happy Holidays!
> >>
> >> Joe
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Jim/Anna McIntyre
> >> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 10:31 PM
> >> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> >> Subject: [time-nuts] (no subject)
> >>
> >> Greetings all,
> >> My name is Jim, I'm a Noob to your list.  A local DoD contractor
> unloaded
> >> a heap of test equipment lately, and I scored a 5065A.  It's s/n
> >> 1532A00666, has an Olive green-ish RVFR, and a 00105-6103, series 1284
> >> Quartz oscillator.
> >>
> >> I have had the instrument powered up for about an hour now. (I first
> >> checked the +/- 20V supplies and they're OK.)  I have a 1A source
> connected
> >> to the TE lines.
> >> At the end of the 1st hour here's what I'm seeing (Open Loop Mode).
> >>
> >>
> >> Batt 48
> >> Supply 38
> >> Lamp Oven 30 (down from 50)
> >> Cell Oven 30 (down from 50)
> >> Osc Oven 44 (down from 50)
> >> Photo 28
> >> 5 MHz 32
> >> Control, Error, 2nd Harmonic all read 0
> >>
> >>
> >> I adjusted the Quartz Coarse control to be within 10-7.  Fine is set to
> >> 250.  Synth output measures 5.315 005 728 MHz, and is about 1.8 Vpp.
> >>
> >> Control, Error, 2nd Harmonic all read 0 after I switch to Closed Loop
> and
> >> hit 'Start'
> >>
> >> Please advise on next steps...
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to
> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[johnk0...@juno.com]

 Someone with more knowledge/experience than me may know better than to try 
this and will let everyone know not to, but the second harmonic reading on my 
5065A had been gradually decreasing until finally it wouldn't come up at all. 
After trying the same thing you did(not having the equipment to do the 
procedure in the manual) I started changing adjustments after first marking 
their original settings. The second one I tried was the pot(I believe it is 
R29) near center rear looking from above(with the top cover removed, of 
course). It's the one(on my 24xx? if I recall correctly, the latest series 
anyway) with the two white plastic adjustments whowing through a hole about 
1/2" diameter. Sorry I can't give exact information, but I'm writing this from 
memory, as the 5065A is about ten miles away. Anyway, I moved it about an 
eighth turn at a time and on the third try the second harmonic came up. I set 
it, as I recall, to about 32 and it's been working fine for the last couple 
weeks.  As I 
 said, if this shouldn't be done for any reason, hopefully those in the know 
will let me/us know. John K0GCJ

-- Original Message --
From: paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com>
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com>
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2015 08:29:42 -0500

Jim
Welcome to time-nuts and you were indeed lucky to get a 5065.
Lots of possible items.
But the fact that the last line are all 0 may mean its as simple as the
loop selector being open and not closed. Normally the control would tend to
drift all the way over. On reset it goes all the way left and if it doesn't
find the second harmonic it goes all the way to the right. Easy thought at
least.
Beyond that many possibilities for issues. After all they are old.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 11:30 PM, Jim/Anna McIntyre <bbim...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Greetings all,
> My name is Jim, I'm a Noob to your list.  A local DoD contractor unloaded a
> heap of test equipment lately, and I scored a 5065A.  It's s/n 1532A00666,
> has an Olive green-ish RVFR, and a 00105-6103, series 1284 Quartz
> oscillator.
>
> I have had the instrument powered up for about an hour now. (I first
> checked the +/- 20V supplies and they're OK.)  I have a 1A source connected
> to the TE lines.
> At the end of the 1st hour here's what I'm seeing (Open Loop Mode).
>
>
> Batt 48
> Supply 38
> Lamp Oven 30 (down from 50)
> Cell Oven 30 (down from 50)
> Osc Oven 44 (down from 50)
> Photo 28
> 5 MHz 32
> Control, Error, 2nd Harmonic all read 0
>
>
> I adjusted the Quartz Coarse control to be within 10-7.  Fine is set to
> 250.  Synth output measures 5.315 005 728 MHz, and is about 1.8 Vpp.
>
> Control, Error, 2nd Harmonic all read 0 after I switch to Closed Loop and
> hit 'Start'
>
> Please advise on next steps...
>
> Thanks
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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The 7 Most Amazing Credit Cards If You Have Excellent ...
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/566726865c91c268513b6st01duc
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject) - HP 5065A

[J. L. Trantham]

Jim/Anna,

I took the liberty of adding 'HP 5065A' to the subject line to help others.

Sounds like a nice 'find'.  There are many experts here regarding the 5065A.  
I'm a 'novice'.

There are several manuals on the net.  You can find one manual here:

http://www.ko4bb.com/manuals/207.98.180.176/HP_5065A_Manual.pdf

Did the 'CONTINOUS OPERATION' light come on when you hit 'LOGIC RESET' after 
switching to 'OPERATE'?  If so, sounds like it is working.  If not, might want 
to check the light to make sure it's not burned out.  For that matter, might 
want to check all the lights.

What options does it have?  Clock?  Internal battery, as shown by a 'Battery' 
lamp on the panel to the right of the door?

If it has a battery, might want to remove it and make sure the NiCd's haven't 
leaked.

I suspect you have already measured the 5 MHz, 1 MHz, and 100 KHz outputs.

These are nice units.  Good luck and welcome to the group.

Happy Holidays!

Joe

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Jim/Anna 
McIntyre
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 10:31 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] (no subject)

Greetings all,
My name is Jim, I'm a Noob to your list.  A local DoD contractor unloaded a 
heap of test equipment lately, and I scored a 5065A.  It's s/n 1532A00666, has 
an Olive green-ish RVFR, and a 00105-6103, series 1284 Quartz oscillator.

I have had the instrument powered up for about an hour now. (I first checked 
the +/- 20V supplies and they're OK.)  I have a 1A source connected to the TE 
lines.
At the end of the 1st hour here's what I'm seeing (Open Loop Mode).


Batt 48
Supply 38
Lamp Oven 30 (down from 50)
Cell Oven 30 (down from 50)
Osc Oven 44 (down from 50)
Photo 28
5 MHz 32
Control, Error, 2nd Harmonic all read 0


I adjusted the Quartz Coarse control to be within 10-7.  Fine is set to 250.  
Synth output measures 5.315 005 728 MHz, and is about 1.8 Vpp.

Control, Error, 2nd Harmonic all read 0 after I switch to Closed Loop and hit 
'Start'

Please advise on next steps...

Thanks
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[paul swed]

Jim
Welcome to time-nuts and you were indeed lucky to get a 5065.
Lots of possible items.
But the fact that the last line are all 0 may mean its as simple as the
loop selector being open and not closed. Normally the control would tend to
drift all the way over. On reset it goes all the way left and if it doesn't
find the second harmonic it goes all the way to the right. Easy thought at
least.
Beyond that many possibilities for issues. After all they are old.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 11:30 PM, Jim/Anna McIntyre 
wrote:

> Greetings all,
> My name is Jim, I'm a Noob to your list.  A local DoD contractor unloaded a
> heap of test equipment lately, and I scored a 5065A.  It's s/n 1532A00666,
> has an Olive green-ish RVFR, and a 00105-6103, series 1284 Quartz
> oscillator.
>
> I have had the instrument powered up for about an hour now. (I first
> checked the +/- 20V supplies and they're OK.)  I have a 1A source connected
> to the TE lines.
> At the end of the 1st hour here's what I'm seeing (Open Loop Mode).
>
>
> Batt 48
> Supply 38
> Lamp Oven 30 (down from 50)
> Cell Oven 30 (down from 50)
> Osc Oven 44 (down from 50)
> Photo 28
> 5 MHz 32
> Control, Error, 2nd Harmonic all read 0
>
>
> I adjusted the Quartz Coarse control to be within 10-7.  Fine is set to
> 250.  Synth output measures 5.315 005 728 MHz, and is about 1.8 Vpp.
>
> Control, Error, 2nd Harmonic all read 0 after I switch to Closed Loop and
> hit 'Start'
>
> Please advise on next steps...
>
> Thanks
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Miao Zhu via time-nuts]

Hello Jim,
Could you point me to this list of test equipment unloaded by the DOD 
contractor, please?  Thank you.   

Regards,
Miao
 


On Sunday, December 6, 2015 9:00 PM, Jim/Anna McIntyre  
wrote:
 

 Greetings all,
My name is Jim, I'm a Noob to your list.  A local DoD contractor unloaded a
heap of test equipment lately, and I scored a 5065A.  It's s/n 1532A00666,
has an Olive green-ish RVFR, and a 00105-6103, series 1284 Quartz
oscillator.

I have had the instrument powered up for about an hour now. (I first
checked the +/- 20V supplies and they're OK.)  I have a 1A source connected
to the TE lines.
At the end of the 1st hour here's what I'm seeing (Open Loop Mode).


Batt 48
Supply 38
Lamp Oven 30 (down from 50)
Cell Oven 30 (down from 50)
Osc Oven 44 (down from 50)
Photo 28
5 MHz 32
Control, Error, 2nd Harmonic all read 0


I adjusted the Quartz Coarse control to be within 10-7.  Fine is set to
250.  Synth output measures 5.315 005 728 MHz, and is about 1.8 Vpp.

Control, Error, 2nd Harmonic all read 0 after I switch to Closed Loop and
hit 'Start'

Please advise on next steps...

Thanks
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject) - HP 5065A

[Jim/Anna McIntyre]

Thanks for adding the subject in.  I'm not used to this format, and
forgot...

Sadly, no clock.  It does have a battery, and luckily it hasn't leaked.
I've already received a few emails with some tips, and will post an update
soon.

Thanks again,

Jim


On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 9:26 AM, J. L. Trantham  wrote:

> Jim/Anna,
>
> I took the liberty of adding 'HP 5065A' to the subject line to help others.
>
> Sounds like a nice 'find'.  There are many experts here regarding the
> 5065A.  I'm a 'novice'.
>
> There are several manuals on the net.  You can find one manual here:
>
> http://www.ko4bb.com/manuals/207.98.180.176/HP_5065A_Manual.pdf
>
> Did the 'CONTINOUS OPERATION' light come on when you hit 'LOGIC RESET'
> after switching to 'OPERATE'?  If so, sounds like it is working.  If not,
> might want to check the light to make sure it's not burned out.  For that
> matter, might want to check all the lights.
>
> What options does it have?  Clock?  Internal battery, as shown by a
> 'Battery' lamp on the panel to the right of the door?
>
> If it has a battery, might want to remove it and make sure the NiCd's
> haven't leaked.
>
> I suspect you have already measured the 5 MHz, 1 MHz, and 100 KHz outputs.
>
> These are nice units.  Good luck and welcome to the group.
>
> Happy Holidays!
>
> Joe
>
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Jim/Anna
> McIntyre
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2015 10:31 PM
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] (no subject)
>
> Greetings all,
> My name is Jim, I'm a Noob to your list.  A local DoD contractor unloaded
> a heap of test equipment lately, and I scored a 5065A.  It's s/n
> 1532A00666, has an Olive green-ish RVFR, and a 00105-6103, series 1284
> Quartz oscillator.
>
> I have had the instrument powered up for about an hour now. (I first
> checked the +/- 20V supplies and they're OK.)  I have a 1A source connected
> to the TE lines.
> At the end of the 1st hour here's what I'm seeing (Open Loop Mode).
>
>
> Batt 48
> Supply 38
> Lamp Oven 30 (down from 50)
> Cell Oven 30 (down from 50)
> Osc Oven 44 (down from 50)
> Photo 28
> 5 MHz 32
> Control, Error, 2nd Harmonic all read 0
>
>
> I adjusted the Quartz Coarse control to be within 10-7.  Fine is set to
> 250.  Synth output measures 5.315 005 728 MHz, and is about 1.8 Vpp.
>
> Control, Error, 2nd Harmonic all read 0 after I switch to Closed Loop and
> hit 'Start'
>
> Please advise on next steps...
>
> Thanks
> ___
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>
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Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Subject: Re: HP5065A C-field current voltage mod

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message <1530394039.1439027.1441348869239.javamail.ya...@mail.yahoo.com>, Pe
rry Sandeen writes:

>OK, but why?  The temperature would be stable so the resistorsand
>reference diode wouldn't drift.

No, the temperature is not stable, not even close.

Given that the TL431 is quite good at measuring temperature, that
makes it unsuitable in this case.

I have identified one source of the temperature fluctuations:  The
series pass transistor of the +20V rail is located right beneath
the A15 PCB, so any variation in mains (or EXT DC) voltage causes
the A15 temperature to change accordingly.

More details here:

http://phk.freebsd.dk/hacks/HP5065A/20150903_psu/


-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Subject: Re: HP5065A C-field current voltage mod

[Chuck Harris]

Are you sure?  Perry was proposing to use a TL431 to
make an oven, using its famous temperature sensitivity,
and inside the oven would be another TL431 that acted
as a voltage reference.

Every oven I have ever seen that is temperature controlled
has a part that is quite good at measuring temperature at
the helm.

-Chuck Harris

Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:


In message <1530394039.1439027.1441348869239.javamail.ya...@mail.yahoo.com>, Pe
rry Sandeen writes:


OK, but why?  The temperature would be stable so the resistorsand
reference diode wouldn't drift.


No, the temperature is not stable, not even close.

Given that the TL431 is quite good at measuring temperature, that
makes it unsuitable in this case.

I have identified one source of the temperature fluctuations:  The
series pass transistor of the +20V rail is located right beneath
the A15 PCB, so any variation in mains (or EXT DC) voltage causes
the A15 temperature to change accordingly.

More details here:

http://phk.freebsd.dk/hacks/HP5065A/20150903_psu/



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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Didier Juges]

Without a D term, PI loops can be unstable when the gain (P) is increased. If 
you will, with a large error, the correction will itself be large and as the 
system corrects itself, it may overshoot the target value, going into a low (or 
high if you really blew it) level oscillation around the target value. The D 
term slows it down just enough and minimizes that overshoot while maintaining a 
high gain (low steady state error) and a fast response.

Didier KO4BB




On January 24, 2015 8:05:38 PM CST, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote:
Hi

A classic control loop in it’s simplest form has only one term. That is
often referred to as a proportional term. When the control signal (or
error) changes by A the output changes by A times that term. Often in
shorthand notation this term is refereed to as a P term. 

The next thing that some people add to a control loop is an integrator.
It looks at the control signal (or error) has a constant offset of A,
the integrator sums up the A’s. The output of an integrator would
eventually go to infinity with a constant control input (or error) into
it. This term is often referred to as an I term. 

Lastly people add a term to the control loop that responds to the rate
of change in the control signal (or error). The faster the change, the
bigger this signal gets. This is commonly refereed to as a Derivative
term. In shorthand it’s talked about as the D term. 

The net result is a three element control loop running what’s called a
PID algorithm . 

The P and I can also be described by a time constant and a damping.
That’s what the Trimble software lets you do. The implication is that
it’s just a PI loop. In fact it appears to be a PID loop and you can’t
get at the D term. 

For a much more clearly worded explanation of all this, there’s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller

Bob
 
 On Jan 24, 2015, at 6:35 PM, Cash Olsen radio.kd5...@gmail.com
wrote:
 
 Bob,
 
 I am relatively new to the list and still learning the jargon and
 concepts. You wrote: There does appear to be a D in the TBolt loop.
 For what ever reason, that’s not a changeable value. The D does scale
 with the time constant.
 
 Could you or one of the other members elaborate on the what is meant
 by D above. Does it have anything to do with a flat spot in the
 loop?
 
 -- 
 S. Cash Olsen KD5SSJ
 ARRL Technical Specialist
 
 Message: 10
 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2015 09:18:15 -0500
 From: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Questions regarding tuning Thunderbolt with
LadyHeather -- GPSDO's
 Message-ID: 6581eb02-9792-432f-b143-25b41fb29...@n1k.org
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
 
 
 There does appear to be a D in the TBolt loop. For what ever reason,
 that’s not a changeable value. The D does scale with the time
 constant.
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Sent from my Motorola Droid Razr HD 4G LTE wireless tracker while I do other 
things.
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message b260783a-8a00-4053-b2e5-e2462746d...@gmail.com, Didier Juges write
s:
Without a D term, PI loops can be unstable when the gain (P) is
increased. If you will, with a large error, the correction will
itself be large and as the system corrects itself, it may overshoot
the target value, going into a low (or high if you really blew it)
level oscillation around the target value. The D term slows it
down just enough and minimizes that overshoot while maintaining a
high gain (low steady state error) and a fast response.

Before anybody gets any ideas that causes them to waste a lot of time:


D terms are themselves very temperamental because they, by definition,
amplify measurement jitter noise.

In the precision time/frequency domain, D-terms are almost never
realiastic.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Bob Camp]

Hi

A classic control loop in it’s simplest form has only one term. That is often 
referred to as a proportional term. When the control signal (or error) changes 
by A the output changes by A times that term. Often in shorthand notation this 
term is refereed to as a P term. 

The next thing that some people add to a control loop is an integrator. It 
looks at the control signal (or error) has a constant offset of A, the 
integrator sums up the A’s. The output of an integrator would eventually go to 
infinity with a constant control input (or error) into it. This term is often 
referred to as an I term. 

Lastly people add a term to the control loop that responds to the rate of 
change in the control signal (or error). The faster the change, the bigger this 
signal gets. This is commonly refereed to as a Derivative term. In shorthand 
it’s talked about as the D term. 

The net result is a three element control loop running what’s called a PID 
algorithm . 

The P and I can also be described by a time constant and a damping. That’s what 
the Trimble software lets you do. The implication is that it’s just a PI loop. 
In fact it appears to be a PID loop and you can’t get at the D term. 

For a much more clearly worded explanation of all this, there’s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller

Bob
 
 On Jan 24, 2015, at 6:35 PM, Cash Olsen radio.kd5...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Bob,
 
 I am relatively new to the list and still learning the jargon and
 concepts. You wrote: There does appear to be a D in the TBolt loop.
 For what ever reason, that’s not a changeable value. The D does scale
 with the time constant.
 
 Could you or one of the other members elaborate on the what is meant
 by D above. Does it have anything to do with a flat spot in the
 loop?
 
 -- 
 S. Cash Olsen KD5SSJ
 ARRL Technical Specialist
 
 Message: 10
 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2015 09:18:15 -0500
 From: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Questions regarding tuning Thunderbolt with
LadyHeather -- GPSDO's
 Message-ID: 6581eb02-9792-432f-b143-25b41fb29...@n1k.org
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
 
 
 There does appear to be a D in the TBolt loop. For what ever reason,
 that’s not a changeable value. The D does scale with the time
 constant.
 ___
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Magnus Danielson]

Cash,

Typically a PLL loop uses a PI loop-filter, making it a PI-control 
system with a steered integrator in the form of the oscillator. Many 
other control systems prefer to use the PID controller, and Bob found 
that there is a D factor in there.


The factors at hand is:

P = Proportinal
I = Integrate
D = Diffrentiate

If you have the reference phase phi_ref and the oscillator output phase 
of phi_out, the detected phase difference Vd is


Vd = Kd * (phi_ref - phi_out)

The oscillator steering is Vf can then be formulated as

VD = Vd - Vd_prev
Vd_prep = Vd
VI = VI + I*Vd
Vf = D*VD + P*Vd + VI

Thus, the D factor steers how much of the time-derivate of the phase 
goes into the frequency steering. The P factor steers the phase and the 
I factor the amount of integrated signal.


A loop in stable condition will have the integrator force Vd to be 
around zero, so VI will hold the frequency correction needed. The I will 
scale how quickly it will learn this frequency. The P will scale the 
AC part of Vd for dynamics, typically you set the damping.
The D factor can play an important part in the track-in process and the 
dynamics of that.


A key factor is the sample-time T. I and D needs to be scaled with T to 
get the same behavior for alternate values sampling periods.


Cheers,
Magnus

On 01/25/2015 12:35 AM, Cash Olsen wrote:

Bob,

I am relatively new to the list and still learning the jargon and
concepts. You wrote: There does appear to be a D in the TBolt loop.
For what ever reason, that’s not a changeable value. The D does scale
with the time constant.

Could you or one of the other members elaborate on the what is meant
by D above. Does it have anything to do with a flat spot in the
loop?


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Re: [time-nuts] NEW subject

[David McGaw]

It looks to me to be another implementation of the NIST chip-scale 
atomic clock.  Their description includes electronic circuit, photo 
detector, and light source on chip.


David


On 5/9/13 7:54 PM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

It also says 10 ppb / day stability. Lots of specs that don't add up. Sort of 
what you get from Google Translate.

Bob

On May 9, 2013, at 5:10 PM, Mike S mi...@flatsurface.com wrote:


On 5/9/2013 3:30 PM, Rob Kimberley wrote:

No specifications. Web site a bit flaky.

$10 for atomic accuracy?

It says 5e-9/yr, comparable to OCXO.

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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Ed Breya]

Yes, that's true, Simon, but remember the initial goals of simplicity 
and long term phase coherence, while jitter doesn't matter so much. The 
longer term average frequency ratio should be right on, while comparing 
at any particular cycles it would be awful.


Ed

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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Magnus Danielson]

On 01/08/2013 09:08 AM, M. Simon wrote:

To reduce cycle to cycle jitter I think a divide by 10 is in order (/5, /2). 
And if you can arrange it the MCU should be a little slow.


The cycle jitter doesn't change in time-amplitude by division, it's just 
the jitter relative to the period which changes with the division.


Cheers,
Magnus

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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject) - jitter

[Bob Camp]

Hi

(no subject) is such a nice topic to index things under 

Bob

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Magnus Danielson
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 2:57 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

On 01/08/2013 09:08 AM, M. Simon wrote:
 To reduce cycle to cycle jitter I think a divide by 10 is in order (/5,
/2). And if you can arrange it the MCU should be a little slow.

The cycle jitter doesn't change in time-amplitude by division, it's just 
the jitter relative to the period which changes with the division.

Cheers,
Magnus

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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Well then you would want at least an Rb as a holdover source just in case ….

Bob

On May 18, 2012, at 9:31 PM, Mark Sims wrote:

 
 No,  actually it is for my alarm clock.  Ignore the sawtooth?   Poppycock!   
 What self-respecting time nut could possibly tolerate being woken up with a 
 +/- 15 ns uncertainty...
 
 ---
 If this is for a computer and NTP then you may ignore the sawtooth.
 
 GPS receiver sawtooth corrections are for people working at the
 nanosecond level; important when you're working with disciplining
 quartz or rubidium oscillators with stability at the 1e-12 level.
 
 Computer timekeeping and NTP is a million times worse than this.
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[bg]

 I like Less than $20... Not for Sale  Sounds like vaporcrap to me...
 -
 Or 216 channels (GPS L1/L2/L2C/L5; GLONASS L1/L2; Galileo E1/E5A):
 http://www.javad.com/jgnss/products/triumph.html

Have used Delta receivers in production at a former employment. They are
very capable receivers.

http://www.javad.com/jgnss/products/receivers/delta.html


--

Björn


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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Bill Riches]

100 Khz is s/9 in Cape May, NJ.

73,

Bill, WA2DVU
Cape May,NJ



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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Bill Riches]

OOOPS - had wrong antenna connected - sig is 20/9 and is coming from the
only station that has been doing tests. It is located at the southern end of
Wildwood New Jersey, the old USCG engineering station. About 5 miles as the
crow flies from my qth.

73,

Bill

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Bill Riches
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 9:08 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

100 Khz is s/9 in Cape May, NJ.

73,

Bill, WA2DVU
Cape May,NJ



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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Azelio Boriani]

Yes, never used but no doubt about the power of IDA. My opinion is: you
don't need the power of IDA for an MCS51 executable code.

On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Elio Corbolante elio...@gmail.com wrote:

 Azelio Boriani wrote:
 In my opinion you don't need the power of an IDA-class disassembler to
 process an 8051-like code.
 The MCS51 family processors have only 128 or 256 bytes of RAM (and at most
 64K ROM) and cannot host complex code.

 From your answer I infer you have never thoroughly used IDA and its really
 powerful disassembler engine...

 _   Elio.
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[David VanHorn]

Potentially dangerous URL

From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of 
Robert Atkinson [robert8...@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 10:29 AM
To: gree...@ntlworld.com; mur...@cts.com; greenw...@matchtech.com; 
r...@quicksilver-wsr.com; atkin...@marshallaerospace.com; 
rol...@snell-engineering.co.uk; birdtheb...@btinternet.com; u...@gmail.com; 
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] (no subject)

http://steamboatskiresort.co.cc/sx(Munged for safety)

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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Tijd Dingen]

You mean potentially the exact same hijacked e-mail account sending spam as 
with the Hello subject from 24 August.  Why not change e-mail address and be 
done with it?




From: David VanHorn d.vanh...@elec-solutions.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com; 
gree...@ntlworld.com gree...@ntlworld.com; mur...@cts.com 
mur...@cts.com; greenw...@matchtech.com greenw...@matchtech.com; 
r...@quicksilver-wsr.com r...@quicksilver-wsr.com; 
atkin...@marshallaerospace.com atkin...@marshallaerospace.com; 
rol...@snell-engineering.co.uk rol...@snell-engineering.co.uk; 
birdtheb...@btinternet.com birdtheb...@btinternet.com; u...@gmail.com 
u...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2011 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

Potentially dangerous URL

From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of 
Robert Atkinson [robert8...@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 10:29 AM
To: gree...@ntlworld.com; mur...@cts.com; greenw...@matchtech.com; 
r...@quicksilver-wsr.com; atkin...@marshallaerospace.com; 
rol...@snell-engineering.co.uk; birdtheb...@btinternet.com; u...@gmail.com; 
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] (no subject)

http://steamboatskiresort.co.cc/sx(Munged for safety)

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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Bob Camp]

Hi

The TBolt OCXO does have good noise characteristics. Unfortunately you have to 
pull it out of the unit to figure that out.

Bob



On Aug 19, 2010, at 10:31 PM, Mark J. Blair n...@nf6x.net wrote:

 
 On Aug 19, 2010, at 7:13 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
 Hopefully they will keep GPS running long enough for me to find something to 
 compare it to.
 
 My new GPSDO leaves me with the question of how do I measure the phase noise 
 of what is by far the best oscillator I own... without buying a better one to 
 compare it to. That question is what brought me to time-nuts. I'm starting 
 to read some papers on oscillator characterization that are collected 
 together in a technical note from NIST that a co-worker pointed me towards, 
 but some of them are giving me a math-induced headache. :)
 
 
 -- 
 Mark J. Blair, NF6X n...@nf6x.net
 Web page: http://www.nf6x.net/
 GnuPG public key available from my web page.
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Mark J. Blair]

On Aug 20, 2010, at 5:07 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
 The TBolt OCXO does have good noise characteristics. Unfortunately you have 
 to pull it out of the unit to figure that out.

Is its phase noise substantially worse when it's in the unit? I.e., is the rest 
of the TBolt adding a lot of phase noise to its output via its power and/or 
tuning voltages?

I'm powering my TBolt with an HP 6236B bench supply rather than the cheap 
open-frame switcher that came with it. Based on what I read, powering the TBolt 
with a switcher adds a lot of noise/spurs to the OCXO spectrum. My unit has the 
Trimble-marked OCXO, which I gather is supposed to be a lot better than the 
Piezo-marked one. My TBolt is presently just screwed onto the top cover of the 
6236B, which is probably far from optimal. I have the whole setup installed in 
a closet, so at least it doesn't get nailed with a blast of cold air every time 
the air conditioner turns on.



-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X n...@nf6x.net
Web page: http://www.nf6x.net/
GnuPG public key available from my web page.





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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Bob Camp]

Hi

It's not that the TBolt is noisy, it's that good phase noise is a whole lot of 
db down. If you look at the posted plots, there is a lot of digital crud in 
them even with a good supply. The TBolt innards are the most likely source.

Bob

On Aug 20, 2010, at 1:00 PM, Mark J. Blair n...@nf6x.net wrote:

 
 On Aug 20, 2010, at 5:07 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
 The TBolt OCXO does have good noise characteristics. Unfortunately you have 
 to pull it out of the unit to figure that out.
 
 Is its phase noise substantially worse when it's in the unit? I.e., is the 
 rest of the TBolt adding a lot of phase noise to its output via its power 
 and/or tuning voltages?
 
 I'm powering my TBolt with an HP 6236B bench supply rather than the cheap 
 open-frame switcher that came with it. Based on what I read, powering the 
 TBolt with a switcher adds a lot of noise/spurs to the OCXO spectrum. My unit 
 has the Trimble-marked OCXO, which I gather is supposed to be a lot better 
 than the Piezo-marked one. My TBolt is presently just screwed onto the top 
 cover of the 6236B, which is probably far from optimal. I have the whole 
 setup installed in a closet, so at least it doesn't get nailed with a blast 
 of cold air every time the air conditioner turns on.
 
 
 
 -- 
 Mark J. Blair, NF6X n...@nf6x.net
 Web page: http://www.nf6x.net/
 GnuPG public key available from my web page.
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[bg]

Hi Mark,

 Sure they're good but other than it's a really cool and stable oscillator
 why is everyone bothering with these when you can get a decent LPRO
 Rubidium for the same or less . It at lest ten times more stable than
 the HP oven job. I just bought 5 good LPROs on Ebay for about $200.00 plus
 shipping...

 Mark

The HP oven draw less current -- cheaper to run continously, less heat in
your shack

Even though RBs lifetime is longer than CSs the HP oven will likely
outlive all atomic standards.

The HP oven has better short term stability and less phase noise.

I am sure there are more reasons...

--

   Björn


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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Simple answer - they self calibrate to  1x10^-13 at a one day time period.
Essentially zero long term drift. 

Bob

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Mark2
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 4:49 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] (no subject)

Sure they're good but other than it's a really cool and stable oscillator
why is everyone bothering with these when you can get a decent LPRO Rubidium
for the same or less . It at lest ten times more stable than the HP oven
job. I just bought 5 good LPROs on Ebay for about $200.00 plus shipping...  

Mark
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Dan Rae]

Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

Simple answer - they self calibrate to  1x10^-13 at a one day time period.
Essentially zero long term drift. 


Bob

  
Have I missed something?  A self calibrating cheap Rb unit?  a self 
calibrating 10811?  I really must wake up :^)


dr

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Mark2
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 4:49 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] (no subject)

Sure they're good but other than it's a really cool and stable oscillator
why is everyone bothering with these when you can get a decent LPRO Rubidium
for the same or less . It at lest ten times more stable than the HP oven
job. I just bought 5 good LPROs on Ebay for about $200.00 plus shipping...  


Mark
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Stanley Reynolds]

My crystal ball indicates the comparison is used Lpro and used Tbolt, original 
poster wanted to know why expend $100 for Tbolt when Lpro is cheaper. 


Stanley





From: Dan Rae dan...@verizon.net
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thu, August 19, 2010 4:56:41 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

Bob Camp wrote:
 Hi

 Simple answer - they self calibrate to  1x10^-13 at a one day time period.
 Essentially zero long term drift. 

 Bob

  
Have I missed something?  A self calibrating cheap Rb unit?  a self 
calibrating 10811?  I really must wake up :^)

dr
 -Original Message-
 From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
 Behalf Of Mark2
 Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 4:49 PM
 To: time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: [time-nuts] (no subject)

 Sure they're good but other than it's a really cool and stable oscillator
 why is everyone bothering with these when you can get a decent LPRO Rubidium
 for the same or less . It at lest ten times more stable than the HP oven
 job. I just bought 5 good LPROs on Ebay for about $200.00 plus shipping...  

 Mark
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Yup, the original question was why a TBolt?

Bob

--
From: Stanley Reynolds stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 6:51 PM
To: dan...@verizon.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency 
measurement time-nuts@febo.com

Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

My crystal ball indicates the comparison is used Lpro and used Tbolt, 
original

poster wanted to know why expend $100 for Tbolt when Lpro is cheaper.


Stanley





From: Dan Rae dan...@verizon.net
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
time-nuts@febo.com

Sent: Thu, August 19, 2010 4:56:41 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

Simple answer - they self calibrate to  1x10^-13 at a one day time 
period.

Essentially zero long term drift.

Bob



Have I missed something?  A self calibrating cheap Rb unit?  a self
calibrating 10811?  I really must wake up :^)

dr

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Mark2
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 4:49 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] (no subject)

Sure they're good but other than it's a really cool and stable oscillator
why is everyone bothering with these when you can get a decent LPRO 
Rubidium
for the same or less . It at lest ten times more stable than the HP 
oven
job. I just bought 5 good LPROs on Ebay for about $200.00 plus 
shipping...


Mark
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Mark J. Blair]

On Aug 19, 2010, at 4:54 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
 Yup, the original question was why a TBolt?

I just joined time-nuts today, so please forgive me if I'm beating a dead 
horse. For me, the answer to why a TBolt was it automatically calibrates 
itself against somebody else's well-maintained cesium beam oscillator that I 
didn't have to pay for, along with (presumably) low phase-noise OCXO output, 
which interests me for radio-related applications. I might have chosen a 
different kind of reference for a different application.

I haven't fabricated a good excuse to want my own rubidium standard yet, but 
I'll keep working on that. :)

-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X n...@nf6x.net
Web page: http://www.nf6x.net/
GnuPG public key available from my web page.





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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Didier Juges]

I haven't fabricated a good excuse to want my own rubidium standard yet, but 
I'll keep working on that. :)

Well, you need another reference that does not use the same principles to check 
your first reference against.

That one worked for me.

Now I am working on the next one, because a man with two clocks...

Didier KO4BB


 
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things...

-Original Message-
From: Mark J. Blair n...@nf6x.net
Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:23:59 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)


On Aug 19, 2010, at 4:54 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
 Yup, the original question was why a TBolt?

I just joined time-nuts today, so please forgive me if I'm beating a dead 
horse. For me, the answer to why a TBolt was it automatically calibrates 
itself against somebody else's well-maintained cesium beam oscillator that I 
didn't have to pay for, along with (presumably) low phase-noise OCXO output, 
which interests me for radio-related applications. I might have chosen a 
different kind of reference for a different application.

I haven't fabricated a good excuse to want my own rubidium standard yet, but 
I'll keep working on that. :)

-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X n...@nf6x.net
Web page: http://www.nf6x.net/
GnuPG public key available from my web page.





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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Mark J. Blair]

On Aug 19, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Didier Juges wrote:
 Well, you need another reference that does not use the same principles to 
 check your first reference against.
 
 That one worked for me.

Ooooh, good one!


 Now I am working on the next one, because a man with two clocks...

...needs a third one to cancel out systematic errors?

Or how about Chicks dig guys with stable frequency and time references.

:-)


-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X n...@nf6x.net
Web page: http://www.nf6x.net/
GnuPG public key available from my web page.





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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Oh, you mean like my ever trusty color burst sub-carrier reference
Or my Omega receiver 
Or my Loran C box

Hopefully they will keep GPS running long enough for me to find something to 
compare it to.

Bob



On Aug 19, 2010, at 9:42 PM, Didier Juges did...@cox.net wrote:

 I haven't fabricated a good excuse to want my own rubidium standard yet, but 
 I'll keep working on that. :)
 
 Well, you need another reference that does not use the same principles to 
 check your first reference against.
 
 That one worked for me.
 
 Now I am working on the next one, because a man with two clocks...
 
 Didier KO4BB
 
 
  
 Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things...
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Mark J. Blair n...@nf6x.net
 Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
 Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:23:59 
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
 Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
   time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)
 
 
 On Aug 19, 2010, at 4:54 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
 Yup, the original question was why a TBolt?
 
 I just joined time-nuts today, so please forgive me if I'm beating a dead 
 horse. For me, the answer to why a TBolt was it automatically calibrates 
 itself against somebody else's well-maintained cesium beam oscillator that I 
 didn't have to pay for, along with (presumably) low phase-noise OCXO 
 output, which interests me for radio-related applications. I might have 
 chosen a different kind of reference for a different application.
 
 I haven't fabricated a good excuse to want my own rubidium standard yet, but 
 I'll keep working on that. :)
 
 -- 
 Mark J. Blair, NF6X n...@nf6x.net
 Web page: http://www.nf6x.net/
 GnuPG public key available from my web page.
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Mark J. Blair]

On Aug 19, 2010, at 7:13 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
 Hopefully they will keep GPS running long enough for me to find something to 
 compare it to.

My new GPSDO leaves me with the question of how do I measure the phase noise 
of what is by far the best oscillator I own... without buying a better one to 
compare it to. That question is what brought me to time-nuts. I'm starting to 
read some papers on oscillator characterization that are collected together in 
a technical note from NIST that a co-worker pointed me towards, but some of 
them are giving me a math-induced headache. :)


-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X n...@nf6x.net
Web page: http://www.nf6x.net/
GnuPG public key available from my web page.





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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[J. Forster]

Hi All,

Thanks very much. I'm printing it out as we speak. It looks like a great
scanning job.

Thanks,

-John
=




 Fellow nuts

 I just placed the ops manual for the tracor 527E on
 the  www.to-way.com  Web site. It is under the Time-Nuts Info tab.

 Thanks to Luciano P. S. Paramithiotti

 Had
 K7MLR





 A fine is a tax for doing wrong.  A tax is a fine for doing well.

 Peter Cooper, of Fermi Lab, says, Every experimentalist knows
 that the apparatus, or at least your understanding of it, is
 always at fault until demonstrated otherwise. He also says,
 Nature is really unmoved by what I, or anyone else, believes.










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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Hal Murray]

 I have all this stuff.  I really don't want to open this thing up, and my
 oscillator trouble shooting skills are not that great. 

I think you have several choices:

1) Double check all the pins going into the hockey-puck.  (Maybe something on 
the board has died/broke.)

2) Sell/trade/swap/whatever to somebody who likes to tinker with broken stuff 
like this.

3) Find somebody who is good at fixing this sort of thing and see what it 
takes to bribe them into looking at your unit.

4) Take it apart anyway.  What do you have to lose?



-- 
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.




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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Robert Benward]

Steve,
I was looking for insight.  For instance, is there a power up sequence for 
the +5  +12V?  Anything I can look at before I dive in to the can?

This is not the first HP oscillator I have that has gone dead on me.  I have 
a 10811 that went south on me a few years back.  This is just getting 
expensive to replace them when they go bad.

And yes, if there is someone out there that can do it, I would consider 
sending it out for repair.  I'm an electrical engineer, but I also know my 
limitations, and although it would grate at me to send it out for repair, it 
would be the right thing to do (if the price is right)

Bob


  - Original Message - 
  From: Steve Rooke
  To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
  Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 1:03 AM
  Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)


  Well, if your not prepared to open it up to fix it yourself, are you
  looking for someone else to fix it for you (your postings need
  clarifying)?

  Steve

  On 20 June 2010 16:23, Robert Benward rbenw...@verizon.net wrote:
   Adrian,
   I have all this stuff. I really don't want to open this thing up, and my
   oscillator trouble shooting skills are not that great.
  
   Bob
  
  
   - Original Message -
   From: Adrian
   To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
   Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 11:10 PM
   Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)
  
  
   Bob,
  
   guess you know that detailed documentaion is available here:
   http://www.prc68.com/I/HPE1938.shtml
   http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/
   Open the can and report back!
  
   Adrian
  
  
   Robert Benward schrieb:
All,
Anybody out there know how to fix an E1938 oscillator? Something in 
the
metal can has crapped out. No 10MHz, and in turn, no processor action.
   It
worked a few months ago, turn it on today, and worked after about an
   hour.
Turned it on again this evening and nothing. I would hate to take that
crystal/heater assembly apart.
   
Bob
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  -- 
  Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV  G8KVD
  The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
  - Einstein

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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[J. L. Trantham]

Bob,

I do not know about the E1938A but I have repaired 10811's utilizing the
excellent troubleshooting section of the 10811 manual.  If you are an EE and
are comfortable with small components, the 10811 should be no problem.

I do not know of a similar manual for the E1938A.

Joe

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Robert Benward
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:53 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)


Steve,
I was looking for insight.  For instance, is there a power up sequence for 
the +5  +12V?  Anything I can look at before I dive in to the can?

This is not the first HP oscillator I have that has gone dead on me.  I have

a 10811 that went south on me a few years back.  This is just getting 
expensive to replace them when they go bad.

And yes, if there is someone out there that can do it, I would consider 
sending it out for repair.  I'm an electrical engineer, but I also know my 
limitations, and although it would grate at me to send it out for repair, it

would be the right thing to do (if the price is right)

Bob


  - Original Message - 
  From: Steve Rooke
  To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
  Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 1:03 AM
  Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)


  Well, if your not prepared to open it up to fix it yourself, are you
  looking for someone else to fix it for you (your postings need
  clarifying)?

  Steve

  On 20 June 2010 16:23, Robert Benward rbenw...@verizon.net wrote:
   Adrian,
   I have all this stuff. I really don't want to open this thing up, and my
   oscillator trouble shooting skills are not that great.
  
   Bob
  
  
   - Original Message -
   From: Adrian
   To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
   Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 11:10 PM
   Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)
  
  
   Bob,
  
   guess you know that detailed documentaion is available here:
   http://www.prc68.com/I/HPE1938.shtml
   http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/
   Open the can and report back!
  
   Adrian
  
  
   Robert Benward schrieb:
All,
Anybody out there know how to fix an E1938 oscillator? Something in 
the
metal can has crapped out. No 10MHz, and in turn, no processor action.
   It
worked a few months ago, turn it on today, and worked after about an
   hour.
Turned it on again this evening and nothing. I would hate to take that
crystal/heater assembly apart.
   
Bob
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  The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
  - Einstein

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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Bob Camp]

Hi

No nothing would suggest a power supply to me. I'd certainly check all the 
power and ground pins right up front. 

Bob


On Jun 20, 2010, at 9:53 AM, Robert Benward wrote:

 Steve,
 I was looking for insight.  For instance, is there a power up sequence for 
 the +5  +12V?  Anything I can look at before I dive in to the can?
 
 This is not the first HP oscillator I have that has gone dead on me.  I have 
 a 10811 that went south on me a few years back.  This is just getting 
 expensive to replace them when they go bad.
 
 And yes, if there is someone out there that can do it, I would consider 
 sending it out for repair.  I'm an electrical engineer, but I also know my 
 limitations, and although it would grate at me to send it out for repair, it 
 would be the right thing to do (if the price is right)
 
 Bob
 
 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Steve Rooke
  To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
  Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 1:03 AM
  Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)
 
 
  Well, if your not prepared to open it up to fix it yourself, are you
  looking for someone else to fix it for you (your postings need
  clarifying)?
 
  Steve
 
  On 20 June 2010 16:23, Robert Benward rbenw...@verizon.net wrote:
 Adrian,
 I have all this stuff. I really don't want to open this thing up, and my
 oscillator trouble shooting skills are not that great.
 
 Bob
 
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Adrian
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 11:10 PM
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)
 
 
 Bob,
 
 guess you know that detailed documentaion is available here:
 http://www.prc68.com/I/HPE1938.shtml
 http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/
 Open the can and report back!
 
 Adrian
 
 
 Robert Benward schrieb:
 All,
 Anybody out there know how to fix an E1938 oscillator? Something in 
 the
 metal can has crapped out. No 10MHz, and in turn, no processor action.
 It
 worked a few months ago, turn it on today, and worked after about an
 hour.
 Turned it on again this evening and nothing. I would hate to take that
 crystal/heater assembly apart.
 
 Bob
 ___
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 To unsubscribe, go to
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 To unsubscribe, go to 
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  -- 
  Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV  G8KVD
  The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
  - Einstein
 
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Robert Benward]

Hi Joe,
I may have no alternative.  I have the manuals, I'll start taking it apart! 
I am very comfortable with small components, it's repairing oscillators I 
have the problem with.  But I'll give it a try.  Schematics for the osc and 
main board, and board layout for the main board, are available for E1938

Bob

  - Original Message - 
  From: J. L. Trantham
  To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
  Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 11:06 AM
  Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)


  Bob,

  I do not know about the E1938A but I have repaired 10811's utilizing the
  excellent troubleshooting section of the 10811 manual.  If you are an EE 
and
  are comfortable with small components, the 10811 should be no problem.

  I do not know of a similar manual for the E1938A.

  Joe

  -Original Message-
  From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
  Behalf Of Robert Benward
  Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:53 AM
  To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
  Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)


  Steve,
  I was looking for insight.  For instance, is there a power up sequence for
  the +5  +12V?  Anything I can look at before I dive in to the can?

  This is not the first HP oscillator I have that has gone dead on me.  I 
have

  a 10811 that went south on me a few years back.  This is just getting
  expensive to replace them when they go bad.

  And yes, if there is someone out there that can do it, I would consider
  sending it out for repair.  I'm an electrical engineer, but I also know my
  limitations, and although it would grate at me to send it out for repair, 
it

  would be the right thing to do (if the price is right)

  Bob


- Original Message - 
From: Steve Rooke
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)


Well, if your not prepared to open it up to fix it yourself, are you
looking for someone else to fix it for you (your postings need
clarifying)?

Steve

On 20 June 2010 16:23, Robert Benward rbenw...@verizon.net wrote:
 Adrian,
 I have all this stuff. I really don't want to open this thing up, and 
my
 oscillator trouble shooting skills are not that great.

 Bob


 - Original Message -
 From: Adrian
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 11:10 PM
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)


 Bob,

 guess you know that detailed documentaion is available here:
 http://www.prc68.com/I/HPE1938.shtml
 http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/
 Open the can and report back!

 Adrian


 Robert Benward schrieb:
  All,
  Anybody out there know how to fix an E1938 oscillator? Something in
  the
  metal can has crapped out. No 10MHz, and in turn, no processor 
action.
 It
  worked a few months ago, turn it on today, and worked after about an
 hour.
  Turned it on again this evening and nothing. I would hate to take 
that
  crystal/heater assembly apart.
 
  Bob
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-- 
Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV  G8KVD
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
- Einstein

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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Steve Rooke]

Bob,

On 21 June 2010 01:53, Robert Benward rbenw...@verizon.net wrote:
 Steve,
 I was looking for insight.  For instance, is there a power up sequence for
 the +5  +12V?  Anything I can look at before I dive in to the can?

I don't know the device but I seriously doubt there is a sequence for
powering it up and, considering it worked for you before, something
must have changed to cause this problem.

 This is not the first HP oscillator I have that has gone dead on me.  I have
 a 10811 that went south on me a few years back.  This is just getting
 expensive to replace them when they go bad.

What's the power supply voltages and quality you are using with these
devices. Perhaps the voltage is wrong or the PSU has let through a
voltage spike. Do you have enough current capability in the PSU to
startup the OCXO from cold as these take a lot of power initially and
then back-off when the oven gets hot. Check out the power lines with a
scope when you first apply power just to see if they dip or the PSU
starts to hunt up and down. If you don't have a scope, an analogue
multimeter may be able to show this better than a digital one.

 And yes, if there is someone out there that can do it, I would consider
 sending it out for repair.  I'm an electrical engineer, but I also know my
 limitations, and although it would grate at me to send it out for repair, it
 would be the right thing to do (if the price is right)

Well, I'm sure there is someone out there that can fix it for you but
you really need to find that someone who is willing to put in the time
and risk, plus the logistics of getting it to them. Are you worried
that there may be components inside which you do not have the
equipment, or skills, to deal with, possibly SMC, then that may be the
show stopper for you. Generally though, most of the faults on these
devices can be traced down to dry joints and such like so you may well
be able to fix that. The other area that may concern you is how do you
gain access to the inside as some units are fully sealed and would
need to be carefully cut open with something like a dremel with
cutting disk. Even if it's soldered closed, it's probably much safer
if you scrape the solder away until you break the joint. There is
really nothing that special inside if your careful documenting the
disassembly with photos and the like so that you can assemble it
correctly again. You'll probably have to replace the foam inside but
it should not be a challenge finding something suitable as there is
generally nothing special here providing you replace rough density for
density. The most important thing to remember is to take your time and
don't rush it. Collect as much information as possible. Google until
you have exhausted all possibilities on finding anyone who has dome
this before and then just go for it, what have you got to loose, and
you stand to gain by the experience let alone getting your oscillator
working again. Just make sure your not using a cheap PSU that is the
cause of destroying your expensive OCXO's.

Cheers,
Steve

 Bob


  - Original Message -
  From: Steve Rooke
  To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
  Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 1:03 AM
  Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)


  Well, if your not prepared to open it up to fix it yourself, are you
  looking for someone else to fix it for you (your postings need
  clarifying)?

  Steve

  On 20 June 2010 16:23, Robert Benward rbenw...@verizon.net wrote:
   Adrian,
   I have all this stuff. I really don't want to open this thing up, and my
   oscillator trouble shooting skills are not that great.
  
   Bob
  
  
   - Original Message -
   From: Adrian
   To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
   Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 11:10 PM
   Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)
  
  
   Bob,
  
   guess you know that detailed documentaion is available here:
   http://www.prc68.com/I/HPE1938.shtml
   http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/
   Open the can and report back!
  
   Adrian
  
  
   Robert Benward schrieb:
    All,
    Anybody out there know how to fix an E1938 oscillator? Something in
 the
    metal can has crapped out. No 10MHz, and in turn, no processor action.
   It
    worked a few months ago, turn it on today, and worked after about an
   hour.
    Turned it on again this evening and nothing. I would hate to take that
    crystal/heater assembly apart.
   
    Bob
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    time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
    To unsubscribe, go to
   https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
    and follow the instructions there.
   
   
  
  
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Adrian]

Bob,

guess you know that detailed documentaion is available here:
http://www.prc68.com/I/HPE1938.shtml
http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/
Open the can and report back!

Adrian


Robert Benward schrieb:

All,
Anybody out there know how to fix an E1938 oscillator?  Something in the
metal can has crapped out.  No 10MHz, and in turn, no processor action.  It
worked a few months ago, turn it on today, and worked after about an hour.
Turned it on again this evening and nothing.  I would hate to take that
crystal/heater assembly apart.

Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Robert Benward]

Adrian,
I have all this stuff.  I really don't want to open this thing up, and my 
oscillator trouble shooting skills are not that great.

Bob


  - Original Message - 
  From: Adrian
  To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
  Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 11:10 PM
  Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)


  Bob,

  guess you know that detailed documentaion is available here:
  http://www.prc68.com/I/HPE1938.shtml
  http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/
  Open the can and report back!

  Adrian


  Robert Benward schrieb:
   All,
   Anybody out there know how to fix an E1938 oscillator?  Something in the
   metal can has crapped out.  No 10MHz, and in turn, no processor action. 
It
   worked a few months ago, turn it on today, and worked after about an 
hour.
   Turned it on again this evening and nothing.  I would hate to take that
   crystal/heater assembly apart.
  
   Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Steve Rooke]

Well, if your not prepared to open it up to fix it yourself, are you
looking for someone else to fix it for you (your postings need
clarifying)?

Steve

On 20 June 2010 16:23, Robert Benward rbenw...@verizon.net wrote:
 Adrian,
 I have all this stuff.  I really don't want to open this thing up, and my
 oscillator trouble shooting skills are not that great.

 Bob


  - Original Message -
  From: Adrian
  To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
  Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 11:10 PM
  Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)


  Bob,

  guess you know that detailed documentaion is available here:
  http://www.prc68.com/I/HPE1938.shtml
  http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/
  Open the can and report back!

  Adrian


  Robert Benward schrieb:
   All,
   Anybody out there know how to fix an E1938 oscillator?  Something in the
   metal can has crapped out.  No 10MHz, and in turn, no processor action.
 It
   worked a few months ago, turn it on today, and worked after about an
 hour.
   Turned it on again this evening and nothing.  I would hate to take that
   crystal/heater assembly apart.
  
   Bob
   ___
   time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
   To unsubscribe, go to
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
   and follow the instructions there.
  
  


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-- 
Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV  G8KVD
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
- Einstein

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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Steve Rooke]

Bob,

On 24 May 2010 03:40, Robert Benward rbenw...@verizon.net wrote:
 Hi All,
 Does anyone have a manual for this Z3805A?  Schematics?

If you find one, I'd certainly be interested. What I do have is some
pdfs on the Furuno GT80 receiver which is used in the device. These
were kindly sent me by Craig Miller and I can PM them directly to you
if you wish, just let me know.

Cheers,
Steve

 Thanks,
 Bob
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-- 
Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV  G8KVD
A man with one clock knows what time it is;
A man with two clocks is never quite sure.

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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Steve Rooke]

Hi Rex,

On 25 May 2010 08:32, Rex r...@sonic.net wrote:
 Steve,

 If the Furuno pdf's , you have, are more than just the sales fluff, I'd
 suggest you upload the files to Didier's web pages
 http://www.ko4bb.com/cgi-bin/manuals.pl?dir=05%29_GPS_Timing

 That page has an upload link in the upper-right corner.

 I don't think I have ever seen more than just a simple spec sheet on the
 Furuno receiver.

I've uploaded the hardware and protocol specs for the GT8031 which was
the best that could be obtained from Furuno to date. These are fully
detailed and I expect the protocol spec is pretty close if not the
same as for the GT80. So far I have only tried a couple of the simple
commands, not wanting to screw things up in my Z3805A.

Steve


 Steve Rooke wrote:

 Bob,

 On 24 May 2010 03:40, Robert Benward rbenw...@verizon.net wrote:


 Hi All,
 Does anyone have a manual for this Z3805A?  Schematics?


 If you find one, I'd certainly be interested. What I do have is some
 pdfs on the Furuno GT80 receiver which is used in the device. These
 were kindly sent me by Craig Miller and I can PM them directly to you
 if you wish, just let me know.

 Cheers,
 Steve




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-- 
Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV  G8KVD
A man with one clock knows what time it is;
A man with two clocks is never quite sure.

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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Hal Murray]

Caveat: I've never worked with a 3805.  I do have a 380.  I'm assuming they 
are close.

 If the gps hasn't been turned on in a while, it will need to download a new
 ephemeris.  With the new ephemeris, it can  find it position much faster
 because it will know pretty close where the satellites are, and how much to
 offset the  tracking code.

Yes, that's one problem.  But there are two types of GPS receivers.  The 
common ones are optimized for navigation: location and velocity.

The other type has slightly different firmware optimized for timing.  If you 
know where you are located, you can do a better job of interpreting the noisy 
data and/or get decent time with as few as 1 satellite.

I suspect your unit is confused because it knows the wrong location.

The manual for the Z3801A is widely available on the net.  (If you can't find 
it, I'll mail you a copy.)  It has good descriptions of the status page and 
the survey process.


If you have a terminal program you can probably figure out how to talk to to 
your 3805.  The Z3801A runs at 19.2, 7 bits, odd parity.  I don't know about 
the 3805 and a quick google didn't find anything.  If you can't find it with 
trial and error, somebody on this list knows.

If you send it :SYSTEM:STATUS? a Z3801A will send you back a status page.  
In particular, there is a chunk of the page that shows the satellites it's 
using and the ones it's trying to lock up to.

:GPS:POS:SURV ONCE will tell it to do a survey.  (That's assuming it's the 
same as a Z3801.)  It will take a long time, depending on how good your 
antenna is.  You can watch the progress with the status page.

The commands above may need the right CR/LF type magic after the text string. 
 My notes don't say anything so I expect the 3801 is forgiving.  (Or I was 
lucky.  I'm running Linux so my luck may not transfer to Windows.)


In this context, the Z3801A is different from the TBolt.

The Z3801A automatically saves the new location in Flash when the survey 
completes.  The TBolt doesn't do that unless you tell it to.

So on power up, the Z3801A that was working but has been moved to a new 
location will be confused because it has remembered the wrong location.  On 
the other hand, a TBolt that was never told to save its location will 
automatically do another survey and eventually start working.



-- 
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.




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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Bob Camp]

Hi

I think if you do a search for z3801a  programs, you will find several programs 
that will also work on the 3805

Bob

On May 21, 2010, at 9:15 PM, Robert Benward wrote:

 Hi,
 I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past weekend.  How do I 
 get it to work?  Do I need software to run this, or can it run stand alone. 
 I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the GPS lock, and 
 more importantly, the enable light is not on.  There is an 10MHz output, but 
 the holdover light is not on.  Is there any freeware available?  Any 
 recommendations?
 
 Any opinions on this one:
 
 http://cgi.ebay.com/GPS-Receiver-Program-HP-Z3801A-Z3805A-Z3816A-58540A-/250566043297?cmd=ViewItempt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item3a56e666a1
 
 Thank you in advance.
 
 Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Nic McLean]

Lady Heather is free and a good start.(Just do a google search)
Nic
VK2KXN / VK5ZAT

Hi,
I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past weekend.  How do I

get it to work?  Do I need software to run this, or can it run stand alone. 
I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the GPS lock, and 
more importantly, the enable light is not on.  There is an 10MHz output, but

the holdover light is not on.  Is there any freeware available?  Any 
recommendations?

Any opinions on this one:




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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Bob Camp]

Hi

I thought that LH was a TBolt only sort of thing.

A few things you will find on the 3805:

There is a lot of stuff that says it's RS-422. Most seem to be set up for 
RS-232.

Some say that there are telcom outputs (E1/T1). If so they are pretty well 
hidden. 

The front panel comes off pretty easily. It's just as functional without the 
clunky front panel. It's not as pretty

Bob


On May 21, 2010, at 9:34 PM, Nic McLean wrote:

 Lady Heather is free and a good start.(Just do a google search)
 Nic
 VK2KXN / VK5ZAT
 
 Hi,
 I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past weekend.  How do I
 
 get it to work?  Do I need software to run this, or can it run stand alone. 
 I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the GPS lock, and 
 more importantly, the enable light is not on.  There is an 10MHz output, but
 
 the holdover light is not on.  Is there any freeware available?  Any 
 recommendations?
 
 Any opinions on this one:
 
 
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Rex]

Robert Benward wrote:

Hi,
I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past weekend.  How do I 
get it to work?  Do I need software to run this, or can it run stand alone. 
I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the GPS lock, and 
more importantly, the enable light is not on.  There is an 10MHz output, but 
the holdover light is not on.  Is there any freeware available?  Any 
recommendations?


Any opinions on this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/GPS-Receiver-Program-HP-Z3801A-Z3805A-Z3816A-58540A-/250566043297?cmd=ViewItempt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item3a56e666a1

Thank you in advance.

Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Rex]

Sorry about the empty post -- hit the send key by accident.

Ulrich's free Z38XX program works great as a monitor for the Z3805. He 
added some stuff to specifically support differences from a Z3801. The 
Z3801 programs can be used but can't support the extra satellites the 
3805 can track.


Available here: http://www.ulrich-bangert.de/html/downloads.html

The lower 25-pin connector is the serial port you want to connect your 
PC to. Someone mentioned 488; I think that is only on Z3801's. My Z3805 
has a serial interface on the lower 25-pin connector.


You do know that you need an external active GPS antenna, I hope? You 
never mentioned that you had connected one.


It takes a long time to lock the first time in a new location because it 
has to do a survey first. You can make it go a bit quicker if you use 
the monitor program to set your latitude an longitude close first. The 
box should eventually lock without a PC monitoring, but you will, no 
doubt, feel much better if you can see the satellites it is tracking and 
any status messages as it goes through the process.


The monitor commands are very similar to the Z3801. You should be able 
to find some Z3801 user documentation and command reference docs on the net.


Hope that helps a bit.

-Rex

Robert Benward wrote:

Hi,
I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past weekend.  How do I 
get it to work?  Do I need software to run this, or can it run stand alone. 
I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the GPS lock, and 
more importantly, the enable light is not on.  There is an 10MHz output, but 
the holdover light is not on.  Is there any freeware available?  Any 
recommendations?


Any opinions on this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/GPS-Receiver-Program-HP-Z3801A-Z3805A-Z3816A-58540A-/250566043297?cmd=ViewItempt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item3a56e666a1

Thank you in advance.

Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[jimlux]

Rex wrote:

Sorry about the empty post -- hit the send key by accident.

Ulrich's free Z38XX program works great as a monitor for the Z3805. He 
added some stuff to specifically support differences from a Z3801. The 
Z3801 programs can be used but can't support the extra satellites the 
3805 can track.


Available here: http://www.ulrich-bangert.de/html/downloads.html

The lower 25-pin connector is the serial port you want to connect your 
PC to. Someone mentioned 488; I think that is only on Z3801's. My Z3805 
has a serial interface on the lower 25-pin connector.




On the 3801 (and probably the 3805, those who know can correct me) there 
are some jumpers inside that set the style of serial i/o: rs422 or 
rs232.  You should check to see which it is, before you hook it up.


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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Robert Benward]

Bob, Nic, Rex  Jimlux, Thank you all for you timely responses!

The RS-232 is already hooked up, as well as the power supply.  I purchased it from someone who was using it in his radio 
shop.  He had two, so he was selling his extra. This is the HP version, not the Symmetricom, it has the smaller front 
panel, I'm assuming it's the same part number, it has all the same guts.   I am using a Garmin marine GPS antenna.  I 
was under the impression the unit would track on it's own, and the software was just for monitoring and fine tuning.  In 
any case, I will try and download Ulrich's program.  Thanks again, I will keep you all posted on my progress.


Bob


- Original Message - 
From: Rex r...@sonic.net

To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)



Sorry about the empty post -- hit the send key by accident.

Ulrich's free Z38XX program works great as a monitor for the Z3805. He added some stuff to specifically support 
differences from a Z3801. The Z3801 programs can be used but can't support the extra satellites the 3805 can track.


Available here: http://www.ulrich-bangert.de/html/downloads.html

The lower 25-pin connector is the serial port you want to connect your PC to. Someone mentioned 488; I think that is 
only on Z3801's. My Z3805 has a serial interface on the lower 25-pin connector.


You do know that you need an external active GPS antenna, I hope? You never 
mentioned that you had connected one.

It takes a long time to lock the first time in a new location because it has to do a survey first. You can make it go 
a bit quicker if you use the monitor program to set your latitude an longitude close first. The box should eventually 
lock without a PC monitoring, but you will, no doubt, feel much better if you can see the satellites it is tracking 
and any status messages as it goes through the process.


The monitor commands are very similar to the Z3801. You should be able to find some Z3801 user documentation and 
command reference docs on the net.


Hope that helps a bit.

-Rex

Robert Benward wrote:

Hi,
I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past weekend.  How do I get it to work?  Do I need software to 
run this, or can it run stand alone. I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the GPS lock, and more 
importantly, the enable light is not on.  There is an 10MHz output, but the holdover light is not on.  Is there any 
freeware available?  Any recommendations?


Any opinions on this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/GPS-Receiver-Program-HP-Z3801A-Z3805A-Z3816A-58540A-/250566043297?cmd=ViewItempt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item3a56e666a1

Thank you in advance.

Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Hal Murray]

 I am using a Garmin marine GPS antenna.  I  was under the impression the
 unit would track on it's own, and the software was just for monitoring and
 fine tuning.

If it's like the Z3801A, it probably knows where it was last located and is 
having troubles trying to make sense out of the signals it's receiving in its 
new home.

You need to tell it to do a survey.


-- 
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.




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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[David C. Partridge]

Yes the Thunderbold truly is plug and play.   In holdover of course the Rb
will be more stable ... 

The RS-232 connection also lets you see if it has achieved GPS lock - you
can't tell without something that talks to the RS-232 interface.

Dave
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of David Hilton-Jones
Sent: 30 June 2009 13:28
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] (no subject)

I am not very much interested in how it is achieved, but wonder if a 10MHz
oscillator locked to GPS is now available as plugplay rather than needing
a lot of time/effort/building.

I note the Thunderbolt units available from the Far East on ebay for~£80gbp.
Are these really PP - that is, just connect PSU and aerial and out comes
10MHz locked to GPS? Is it necessary to connect to a computer via the RS232
link, or is that just there if you want to fiddle and be clever?

If so, then this may be preferrable to running my rubidium source
continuously.

What I am interested in is stability, not ultiamte accuracy.

As always, sorry for the naivety of the question.

Thanks


David, G4YTL 

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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[J. L. Trantham]

The Z3816A and Z3801A are plug and play with 4 LED status lights on the
front panel including GPS Lock.  I have the Thunderbolt and a Z3816A and
find being able to review the information on the computer is very helpful
including looking for satellite tracking loss, open or shorter antenna
connections, etc.  If you have an old laptop or other computer, it is simple
to connect via a serial port and communicate via Tboltmon.exe or
SatStat.exe.

You might look here (http://www.realhamradio.com/GPS_Frequency_Standard.htm)
for more information.

I have been playing with a 5061A and 5061B by looking at their outputs on a
scope triggered by a Thunderbolt and I am amazed that I can generate a
signal in my workshop that exactly matches the frequency of the Thunderbolt
linked to the NIST reference.  (Sorry for the 'simple' description, I have
not yet made it to phase noise and stability comparisons).

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of David C. Partridge
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 7:49 AM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)


Yes the Thunderbold truly is plug and play.   In holdover of course the Rb
will be more stable ... 

The RS-232 connection also lets you see if it has achieved GPS lock - you
can't tell without something that talks to the RS-232 interface.

Dave
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of David Hilton-Jones
Sent: 30 June 2009 13:28
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] (no subject)

I am not very much interested in how it is achieved, but wonder if a 10MHz
oscillator locked to GPS is now available as plugplay rather than needing
a lot of time/effort/building.

I note the Thunderbolt units available from the Far East on ebay for~£80gbp.
Are these really PP - that is, just connect PSU and aerial and out comes
10MHz locked to GPS? Is it necessary to connect to a computer via the RS232
link, or is that just there if you want to fiddle and be clever?

If so, then this may be preferrable to running my rubidium source
continuously.

What I am interested in is stability, not ultiamte accuracy.

As always, sorry for the naivety of the question.

Thanks


David, G4YTL 

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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[dave powis]

Hi David,

I don't know the Chinese ones, but I was lucky enough to get one of the TAPR 
offer TBolts - and it really was PP - yes, I attached a PC and used the TBolt 
monitoring utility to confirm it was all working OK, but that was all.  It now 
sits in my shack outputing 10MHz very nicely.

73,
Dave





From: David Hilton-Jones david.hilton-jo...@clneuro.ox.ac.uk
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Tuesday, 30 June, 2009 1:28:07 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] (no subject)

I am not very much interested in how it is achieved, but wonder if a
10MHz oscillator locked to GPS is now available as plugplay rather
than needing a lot of time/effort/building.

I note the Thunderbolt units available from the Far East on ebay
for~£80gbp. Are these really PP - that is, just connect PSU and
aerial and out comes 10MHz locked to GPS? Is it necessary to connect to
a computer via the RS232 link, or is that just there if you want to
fiddle and be clever?

If so, then this may be preferrable to running my rubidium source
continuously.

What I am interested in is stability, not ultiamte accuracy.

As always, sorry for the naivety of the question.

Thanks


David, G4YTL 

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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[David Hilton-Jones]

Thanks Brian - a useful tip.

David

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14/04/08 15:50 
David-

Although you are likely OK being at VHF, please keep in mind that some
of the low-freq clock type oscillators have poor phase noise when
it comes to trying to copy signals like CW.

A good easy test is to listen to one of the oscillators on a good
general coverage RX and see how good the CW note sounds. If you're
happy with it, then its use as a LO for a transverter is likely OK.

Also remember that modes like PSK31, WSJT, etc. will want slightly better
LO phase noise to function well.

But the CW listening test is a simple easy place to start.

73,
Brian, WA1ZMS/4


 -- Original message from David Hilton-Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 
--


 I want to generate sine wave signals at 42MHz and 116MHz for use with VHF 
 transverters. A simple tcxo isn't stable enough. I'm looking for simple/cheap 
 solutions and I'd appreciate any comments.
 1) I have a stable reference at 10MHz available
 2) Reflock is overkill
 3) I guess a G8ACE type ocxo would do for 116MHz.
 4) I read with interest about FlashCrystal units, but they now seem 
 unavailable.
 5) On e-bay international I see McCoy/Vectron ocxo at 48.MHz (can't 
 remember 
 exact frequency) - that might do for my 42MHz requirement , with some mods to 
 the rest of the transverter. Any UK source?
 6) I don't know much about DDS systems.
 
 Any comments much appreciated.
 
 David
 
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[wa1zms]

David-

Although you are likely OK being at VHF, please keep in mind that some
of the low-freq clock type oscillators have poor phase noise when
it comes to trying to copy signals like CW.

A good easy test is to listen to one of the oscillators on a good
general coverage RX and see how good the CW note sounds. If you're
happy with it, then its use as a LO for a transverter is likely OK.

Also remember that modes like PSK31, WSJT, etc. will want slightly better
LO phase noise to function well.

But the CW listening test is a simple easy place to start.

73,
Brian, WA1ZMS/4


 -- Original message from David Hilton-Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 
--


 I want to generate sine wave signals at 42MHz and 116MHz for use with VHF 
 transverters. A simple tcxo isn't stable enough. I'm looking for simple/cheap 
 solutions and I'd appreciate any comments.
 1) I have a stable reference at 10MHz available
 2) Reflock is overkill
 3) I guess a G8ACE type ocxo would do for 116MHz.
 4) I read with interest about FlashCrystal units, but they now seem 
 unavailable.
 5) On e-bay international I see McCoy/Vectron ocxo at 48.MHz (can't 
 remember 
 exact frequency) - that might do for my 42MHz requirement , with some mods to 
 the rest of the transverter. Any UK source?
 6) I don't know much about DDS systems.
 
 Any comments much appreciated.
 
 David
 
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Pete]

David,

Both TI and Analog Devices have reasonably priced
evaluation boards for their PLL clock synthesizer/ 
clean-up parts. Still they are in the US$150 range;
maybe too high? They do require a PC connection
to program internal registers, but the TI parts have
NVRAM on chip  could be swapped to another
(cheaper) PCA after programming.

Pete Rawson

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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Rex]

Don Collie jnr wrote:
 ssSsSs
 ssSsSSstestSSSssSs

   
?? -- Test message just above the noise floor?



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Re: [time-nuts] new subject

[ernieperes]

Hello,

Anybody can point a link to get manual or more info about a? LPRO-101? rubidium 
osci.

Thanks a lot,

Ernie Peres HG5ED

Ps.? Marry Xmas and Happy New Year to everybody.

More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - 
http://webmail.aol.com
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Re: [time-nuts] new subject

[Stuart]

Try this link http://www.tenextime.com/product_downloads/lpfrs_manual.pdf
-
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free
Checked by McAFEE on-Line subscription
Anti-Virus.
Only two defining forces have ever offered
to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I.
One died for you soul;  ~  the other for your freedom.

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] new subject



 Hello,

 Anybody can point a link to get manual or more info about a? LPRO-101? 
 rubidium osci.

 Thanks a lot,

 Ernie Peres HG5ED

 Ps.? Marry Xmas and Happy New Year to everybody.
 
 More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - 
 http://webmail.aol.com
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Re: [time-nuts] new subject

[Didier Juges]

Go to 

http://www.ko4bb.com/cgi-bin/manuals.pl

and search for LPRO

Didier KO4BB

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
 
 Hello,
 
 Anybody can point a link to get manual or more info about a? LPRO-101? 
 rubidium osci.
 
 Thanks a lot,
 
 Ernie Peres HG5ED
 
 Ps.? Marry Xmas and Happy New Year to everybody.
 
 More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - 
 http://webmail.aol.com
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Re: [time-nuts] new subject

[ernieperes]

Thanks for the info but unable to open the link. tried also Google search 
but no help



Cheers, Ernie.


-Original Message-
From: Stuart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 4:38 pm
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] new subject




Try this link http://www.tenextime.com/product_downloads/lpfrs_manual.pdf
-
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free
Checked by McAFEE on-Line subscription
Anti-Virus.
Only two defining forces have ever offered
to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I.
One died for you soul;  ~  the other for your freedom.

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] new subject



 Hello,

 Anybody can point a link to get manual or more info about a? LPRO-101? 
 rubidium osci.

 Thanks a lot,

 Ernie Peres HG5ED

 Ps.? Marry Xmas and Happy New Year to everybody.
 
 More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - 
 http://webmail.aol.com
 ___
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Re: [time-nuts] new subject

[michael taylor]

On Dec 20, 2007 10:39 AM, Didier Juges [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Go to

 http://www.ko4bb.com/cgi-bin/manuals.pl

Or in particular,
 http://www.ko4bb.com/Manuals/5)_GPS_Timing/LPRO_Users_guide.pdf

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Re: [time-nuts] new subject

[Peter Vince]

It's temex with an M, not tenex with an N :

http://www.temextime.com/product_downloads/lpfrs_manual.pdf

Peter


Try this link http://www.tenextime.com/product_downloads/lpfrs_manual.pdf
-

 Hello,

 Anybody can point a link to get manual or more info about a? LPRO-101?
 rubidium osci.

 Thanks a lot,

 Ernie Peres HG5ED

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Re: [time-nuts] new subject

[ernieperes]

Hi Peter,

Thanks, all OK.

Ernie.






-Original Message-
From: Peter Vince [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Stuart [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Discussion of precise time and frequency 
measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:30 pm
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] new subject




It's temex with an M, not tenex with an N :

http://www.temextime.com/product_downloads/lpfrs_manual.pdf

Peter


Try this link http://www.tenextime.com/product_downloads/lpfrs_manual.pdf
-

 Hello,

 Anybody can point a link to get manual or more info about a? LPRO-101?
 rubidium osci.

 Thanks a lot,

 Ernie Peres HG5ED

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More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - 
http://webmail.aol.com
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Brian Kirby]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

You need another independent reference oscillator for the 3325 and run 
the test again - that should make sure its not a synchronization 
idiosyncrasy.

It could be at that low of a frequency change, they are swallowing a 
pulse and it makes a jump

Ulrich Bangert wrote:
 ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
 Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Gents,
 
 perhaps you know that Bruce and I are working on an linear phase
 comparator similar to the K34-5991A from HP (but with some features of
 today) which should enable us to characterize even better oscillators
 at an very small price. The first expriments (running since some weeks)
 are very encouraging but now an problem has arised that I would like to
 hear your comments to:
 
 For linearity tests of the circuit I need two signals that are
 
 a) low phase noise
 
 and
 
 b) have an very small stable frequency offset, say 0.001 to 0.005 Hz.
 
 The two signals that I use are
 
 a) 10 MHz coming from my well hung FTS-1200 + frequency doubler
 
 b) The SQUARE output of my HP3325A set in amplitude and dc offset so
 that effectively an cmos like digital signal is generated. The HP3325
 uses the FTS-1200 as external reference. I am using this arrangement
 because of the ease of offset generation as well because the linear
 phase comparator currently features an well designed sine to ttl
 converter only on one of its input channels, so the second channel needs
 to be fed digital.
 
 The slow beat frequency slowly shifts the phase delay between the phase
 comparator input clocks and one should get an linear output of the lpc
 over time. Looked at the big scale (200 ns measurement range) the
 voltage recorded at the lpc's output looks indeed picture-perfect. 
 
 If however looked at an scale of an few ns it becomes obvious that there
 is an regular sudden jump in phase of abt. 320 ps (always same
 direction) every 60 seconds or so. Bruce and I have tried to remove
 zillions of possible sources for that without any result. As an last
 resort I made an measurment that recorded the phase comparator's output
 as well as an direct time interval measurement between the positive
 slopes of the input clocks and much to my surprise the jump was already
 to be seen there although buried in a bit more noise due to 20 ps tic
 resolution. 
 
 I am almost sure the FTS-1200 can NOT be the source of these jumps
 because it is at the same time the LO of my GPSDO system. If it were to
 produce regular phase jumps (even that small) they would accumulate to
 an value that would result in an noticeable reaction of the closed loop.
 
 Therefore the qustion: Has anyone of you an theoretical knowledge about
 the HP3325 that would explain this behaviour or has anyone of you made
 similar findings? In the above example the frequency had been set to
 10.5 Mhz, square output, 5V amplitude, 2.5V dc offset which
 gives an 0 to 5 V when terminated into 50 Ohms. Can it be that the
 effect is due to the sqare output? I made some tests whith seeting the
 phase of the output signal which led to no noticable changes so there
 could be an signifant difference of signal phase behavoiur between sine
 and square generstion.
 
 TIA
 Ulrich Bangert  
 
 
 Brooke, I hope you find my signature ok now?
 
 Ulrich Bangert
 www.ulrich-bangert.de
 Ortholzer Weg 1
 27243 Gross Ippener 
 Germany
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Rob Kimberley]

FWIW - I would not bid on this. Lousy photo, no documentation, and just not
a complete unit.

Rob K

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 10 November 2006 18:10
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] (no subject)

Hi,

I'm a new list member.  I'm also very new to timing and synchronization.

I am looking for a standard to lock a 10 GHz gunnplexer to.  I am an amateur
experimenter and by necessity must do things inexpensively.  I am looking at
a Symmetricon rubidium atomic clock standard on ebay now.  The seller has no
documentation at all.  His only info is it's manufactured by Symmtricom.
There are three leads, but no idea about the pin out or hook up.  

Ebay # 290046924781 

Any assistance or link would be most appreciated.

Thank You,

Rick 

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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rob Seaman writes:

Rob,

I started refuting you email point by point, but decided against
it.  It all comes down to one fundamental issue which we disagree
on, there rest follows directly from that.

UTC is Universal Time joined to TAI.  Universal Time is an  
approximation of Greenwich Mean Time.  These assertions are true  
now.  They should remain so in the future.

... says the astronomers.

Other people think that by sheer majority of users, the UTC timescale
no longer belongs to the astronomers, and that it can and should
be redefined to serve its major target audience better.

UTC is not civil time.

You _really_ need to get out more...

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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