Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage

Hi Jim, On 03/01/2016 03:24 PM, jimlux wrote: On 2/29/16 10:56 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: On 02/29/2016 11:31 AM, Martin Burnicki wrote: Hal, Hal Murray wrote: martin.burni...@burnicki.net said: Strange that at least 3 independant firmware trees/development teams should chose the same

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage

On 2/29/16 10:56 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: On 02/29/2016 11:31 AM, Martin Burnicki wrote: Hal, Hal Murray wrote: martin.burni...@burnicki.net said: Strange that at least 3 independant firmware trees/development teams should chose the same magic wk860. I don't find it strange. If the

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage

Hi Take a look at math libraries and things like printf libraries. Each time somebody writes one, there are a group of bugs that come up again and again. Yes, you would *think* each group would come up with creative *new* errors … not so much. There are always obvious assumptions that turn

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage

On 02/29/2016 11:31 AM, Martin Burnicki wrote: Hal, Hal Murray wrote: martin.burni...@burnicki.net said: Strange that at least 3 independant firmware trees/development teams should chose the same magic wk860. I don't find it strange. If the next firmware version is based on the previous

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage

Funny how apparently Trimble were involved in the wk860 problem, I thought they famously used their leap second based rollover protection: http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US5923618 :) Maybe that algorithm isn't that smart after all. Thanks, Wojciech    Original Message  

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage

Hal, Hal Murray wrote: > > martin.burni...@burnicki.net said: >>> Strange that at least 3 independant firmware trees/development teams should >>> chose the same magic wk860. > >> I don't find it strange. If the next firmware version is based on the >> previous version and none of the developers

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

via the Samsung Galaxy S®6 active, an AT 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Magnus Danielson <mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org> Date: 2/27/2016 10:54 AM (GMT-08:00) To: time-nuts@febo.com Cc: mag...@rubidium.se Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage.. Hi Jim, On 02/27/2016 06

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

.   Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S®6 active, an AT 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Magnus Danielson <mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org> Date: 2/27/2016 10:54 AM (GMT-08:00) To: time-nuts@febo.com Cc: mag...@rubidium.se Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage.. Hi Jim, On 02/27/2

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

In message , Bob Camp writes: >(Stratum 1,2,3) is based on various timing sources. It also was >designed in an era of “top down” timing. That is a very different >approach than the “bottom up” timing of the over the air codes >on CDMA or some

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

Hi All CDMA systems are directly locked to GPS time. None of them do the Gold Code sync based on central office timing. Prior to CDMA, the AMPS system was frequency domain based not time. Those basestations did not use anything more than an OCXO to keep them up and running on the wireless side

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

Hi Jim, On 02/27/2016 06:14 PM, jimlux wrote: On 2/26/16 11:34 PM, Hal Murray wrote: How many of them came from E-911 stations? E-911 triangulation done on cell towers … I was thinking of the stations where they have the dispatchers who answer the calls and pass the info on to the right

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

Tom, On 02/27/2016 03:50 PM, Tom McDermott wrote: The reason many cell sites went to GPS for time and frequency synchronization is that in many cases it was either less expensive or only possible to backhaul the cell site traffic to the MTSO (Mobile Telephone Switching Office) via microwave

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

I'd be curious to know how many carriers have a reference source other than GPS for their "data line sync." A few decades ago when I worked with long haul data circuits for a living the use of in non GPS timing references still seemed fairly common in my view. Yes I agree that some systems

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

Hi The time stamps in the recordings have no connection with the triangulation part of the system. The audio tracks are completely independent of the “navigation”. Bob > On Feb 27, 2016, at 2:34 AM, Hal Murray wrote: > >>> How many of them came from E-911 stations?

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

On 2/26/16 11:34 PM, Hal Murray wrote: How many of them came from E-911 stations? E-911 triangulation done on cell towers … I was thinking of the stations where they have the dispatchers who answer the calls and pass the info on to the right people. I think they need good timing on the

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

The reason many cell sites went to GPS for time and frequency synchronization is that in many cases it was either less expensive or only possible to backhaul the cell site traffic to the MTSO (Mobile Telephone Switching Office) via microwave radio rather than wireline copper or fiber carrier.

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage

On 2/26/16 12:39 PM, Hal Murray wrote: martin.burni...@burnicki.net said: Strange that at least 3 independant firmware trees/development teams should chose the same magic wk860. I don't find it strange. If the next firmware version is based on the previous version and none of the developers

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

Hi Since there are at least a few hundred TBolts running around in the red cases with the horrible switching power supplies, it’s technically only “most”. The quick way to tell if it’s an Andrew unit is the connectors. They are upside down on the Andrew units compared to the “Trimble Standard”

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

Hi > On Feb 26, 2016, at 8:01 PM, Majdi S. Abbas wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 05:56:59PM -0500, Bob Camp wrote: >> Cell phones since they first came out have *never ever* been setup >> to run on anything other than GPS. Retrofitting them to use something >> else would

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

>> How many of them came from E-911 stations? > E-911 triangulation done on cell towers … I was thinking of the stations where they have the dispatchers who answer the calls and pass the info on to the right people. I think they need good timing on the recordings, but don't know any details.

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

Hi So in the context of the original post, exactly how many Loran-C disciplined cell phone systems were there? … errr .. none. The *only* systems that use any sort of external disciplining are GPS based. Self contained or “not disciplined” does not count in this case. Bob > On Feb 26,

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 05:56:59PM -0500, Bob Camp wrote: > Cell phones since they first came out have *never ever* been setup > to run on anything other than GPS. Retrofitting them to use something > else would take a decade or more. We didn’t “destroy the backup”, there > never was one.

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

HI E-911 triangulation done on cell towers … Bob > On Feb 26, 2016, at 7:25 PM, Hal Murray wrote: > > > kb...@n1k.org said: >> Pretty much all of our surplus gizmos are cell tower surplus (like 99.99%). > > How many of them came from E-911 stations? > > > -- >

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

kb...@n1k.org said: > Pretty much all of our surplus gizmos are cell tower surplus (like 99.99%). How many of them came from E-911 stations? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe,

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

Bob, Nope. Cell phones have been using land-lines for ages to sync up. It was with the CDMA stuff that GPS phase was starting to be used to coordinate. GSM for instance does not need GPS on the base-stations, it even goes to lengthy extends to avoid it. CDMA didn't come into much use over

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

Hi Burt, you are more than right, but don't forget the bean counters! they have power over everything even logical thinking. 73 KJ6UHN Alex On 2/26/2016 8:57 AM, Burt I. Weiner wrote: Maybe I'm misreading what you're saying, but no matter the cause, it points out what can and does happen when

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage

Hal, On 02/26/2016 09:39 PM, Hal Murray wrote: martin.burni...@burnicki.net said: Strange that at least 3 independant firmware trees/development teams should chose the same magic wk860. I don't find it strange. If the next firmware version is based on the previous version and none of the

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage..

Hi ….. ummm ….. errr ….. Cell phones since they first came out have *never ever* been setup to run on anything other than GPS. Retrofitting them to use something else would take a decade or more. We didn’t “destroy the backup”, there never was one. Pretty much all of our surplus gizmos are

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage

The official word, released a few minutes ago: NOTICE ADVISORY TO NAVSTAR USERS (NANU) 2016016 NANU TYPE: GENERAL *** GENERAL MESSAGE TO ALL GPS USERS *** NAVCEN has determined that the event referenced by GPS NANU 2016012 was not a GPS time transfer anomaly but was a user equipment

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage

martin.burni...@burnicki.net said: >> Strange that at least 3 independant firmware trees/development teams should >> chose the same magic wk860. > I don't find it strange. If the next firmware version is based on the > previous version and none of the developers has stumbled across this >

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage

Hi, On 02/26/2016 02:39 PM, jimlux wrote: On 2/26/16 3:34 AM, Björn wrote: "The product will not report the correct extended GPS week number after the Feb,13th 2016. After the rollover to week #860, the thunderbolt will not make position for 2 hours, because the Ephemeris data on the GPS

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage

I have an ONCORE and VP-ONCORE neither were affected by the week 860 problem Dave NR1DX On 2/26/2016 6:34 AM, Björn wrote: "The product will not report the correct extended GPS week number after the Feb,13th 2016. After the rollover to week #860, the thunderbolt will not make position for 2

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage

Björn wrote: > "The product will not report the correct extended GPS week number after the > Feb,13th 2016. > After the rollover to week #860, the thunderbolt will not make position for 2 > hours, because the Ephemeris data on the GPS receiver being consider > incorrect. > The module will work

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage

On 2/26/16 3:34 AM, Björn wrote: "The product will not report the correct extended GPS week number after the Feb,13th 2016. After the rollover to week #860, the thunderbolt will not make position for 2 hours, because the Ephemeris data on the GPS receiver being consider incorrect. The module

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage

would need to spend some time on this. --       Björn Originalmeddelande Från: Martin Burnicki <martin.burni...@burnicki.net> Datum:2016-02-26 09:32 (GMT+01:00) Till: time-nuts@febo.com Rubrik: Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage Mark Sims wrote: >> When is some organization

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage

Mark Sims wrote: >> When is some organization going to explain what happened in February for >> almost two hours starting at 00:16 GMT? That subject has gone silent. Rob, >> NC0B > I heard back from NAVCEN. They said it was a Trimble issue and that Trimble > would contact me (they didn't).

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Outage

When is some organization going to explain what happened in February for almost two hours starting at 00:16 GMT? That subject has gone silent. Rob, NC0B Sent from my iPad > On Feb 25, 2016, at 2:03 AM, "Michael Perrett" wrote: > > > > I think the following might be

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage? 19:00-2100 UTC Tue

t...@radio.sent.com said: I think that Menlo Park is somewhat under 300 NM (nautical miles) from China Lake (depending on exactly where the test was located), and the expected interference range was about 252 NM. So you might have been at the edge of the affected area. See:

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage? 19:00-2100 UTC Tue

The term BNM also initially confused me. It appears to be Broadcast Notice to Mariner, a report produced by the US Coast Guard with important warnings for ship navigation. http://pdept.cgaux.org/Documents/Active/NS/LocalNoticeToMariners/lnm14022011.pdf Detecting GPS interference is an interesting

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage? 19:00-2100 UTC Tue

What sort of gear would I need to detect a local jammer? A GPS receiver where you can get AGC data, to see if the power in the GPS band increased - or a SDR-radio, like the SDR-RTL at sub $20 or a commercial GPS jamming detector. -- Björn ___

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage? 19:00-2100 UTC Tue

t...@radio.sent.com said: The term BNM also initially confused me. It appears to be Broadcast Notice to Mariner Thanks. There was another similar event Wed morning: 08:15-10:00 UTC, Wed 01:15-03:00 PDT and a shorter one from: 13:30-14:00 UTC 06:30-07:00 PDT -- These are my

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage? 19:00-2100 UTC Tue

On 8/19/15 10:12 PM, Hal Murray wrote: t...@radio.sent.com said: I think that Menlo Park is somewhat under 300 NM (nautical miles) from China Lake (depending on exactly where the test was located), and the expected interference range was about 252 NM. So you might have been at the edge of the

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage? 19:00-2100 UTC Tue

No problems in Albuquerque, NM. On 8/19/2015 2:11 AM, Hal Murray wrote: Most/all of my GPS toys stopped working for a few hours late Tue evening. A few where I have good logging ran out of satellites. Did anybody else notice anything similar? Was it local interference, or something at the

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage? 19:00-2100 UTC Tue

From: Hal Murray Most/all of my GPS toys stopped working for a few hours late Tue evening. A few where I have good logging ran out of satellites. Did anybody else notice anything similar? Was it local interference, or something at the GPS level? I'm in Menlo Park California. That was mid

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage? 19:00-2100 UTC Tue

In message 20150819081108.08ebd406...@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net, Hal Mu rray writes: Most/all of my GPS toys stopped working for a few hours late Tue evening. A few where I have good logging ran out of satellites. Did anybody else notice anything similar? Was it local

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage? 19:00-2100 UTC Tue

According to the official GPS testing (interference) website, there were tests at China Lake scheduled for sometime(s) on August 18-20, 2015. I think that Menlo Park is somewhat under 300 NM (nautical miles) from China Lake (depending on exactly where the test was located), and the expected

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

Hi I'd say that: HiNOTICE ADVISORY TO NAVSTAR USERS (NANU) 2013053 SUBJ: SVN34 (PRN04) FORECAST OUTAGE SUMMARY JDAY 246/1717 - JDAY 247/0029 1. NANU TYPE: FCSTSUMM NANU NUMBER: 2013053 NANU DTG: 040030Z SEP 2013 REFERENCE NANU: 2013052 REF NANU DTG: 291526Z AUG

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

On 9/6/13 8:36 PM, John C. Westmoreland, P.E. wrote: Fellow Time Nuts: Is this a site to be trusted?: http://adn.agi.com/SatelliteOutageCalendar/SOFCalendar.aspx Regards, John W. AGI are the folks who make and sell STK (Satellite Took Kit, I believe) which has a dominant position in the

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

On 09/06/2013 05:06 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: Can anyone estimate how many GPS jammers there are in the New England area? There just might be thousands. I don't know. I think the reason most people are not effected is that most GPS user are mobile and if they are near a jammer it is only

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

Hi A truck jammer isn't what you would use to take out a large area, you would need 100,000 of that sort of jammer. Since the truckers that use them get fired, there's a limited number of them in use…. That said, if the event is simply toggling into holdover and then immediately popping back

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

On 9/6/13 4:00 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi A truck jammer isn't what you would use to take out a large area, you would need 100,000 of that sort of jammer. Since the truckers that use them get fired, there's a limited number of them in use…. Considering they cost $30, and they're not that easy to

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage? Message-ID: 27563b77-e8c5-440c-bbba-4d118d885...@att.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 John- I agree. We all should/would have seen even a minor outage. That's what makes the event from early this week

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

Trimble has confirmed to us that the nonstandard outage on PRN 4 (SVN 34) may have caused the Resolution-T receivers to perform a reset and then return to normal operation. They are investigating the cause but it does explain why only some people experienced the event. Other Trimble receivers and

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

You bet I'm outraged by GPS causing the death of simpler, more secure systems like Loran. GPS has many ways to fail, but vacuum tube transmitters just required new tubes. Aren't you outraged too? Wait - this is about outages? Never mind. (Remembering Emily Litella / Gilda Ratner - violins in

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

Bill, did you forget your meds or double up on the dosage or something? ;-) Ed On 9/6/2013 1:07 PM, Bill Hawkins wrote: You bet I'm outraged by GPS causing the death of simpler, more secure systems like Loran. GPS has many ways to fail, but vacuum tube transmitters just required new tubes.

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

Hi Ok, here's why the guy gets fired: The trucking company doesn't do the GPS thing to catch the trucker goofing off. They do it because they get paid to do it. A number of companies will only ship with you *if* you can real time track the cargo and tell them when it'll get to their dock. Why

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

Lisa, Thanks for this update. How many Resolution-T receivers are out there? Not to go off on another tangent - but I have heard something about 'GPS jamming during the America's Cup'. Hmmm. Regards, John Westmoreland On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 8:54 AM, Lisa Perdue perdue.l...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

Fellow Time Nuts: Is this a site to be trusted?: http://adn.agi.com/SatelliteOutageCalendar/SOFCalendar.aspx Regards, John W. On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 6:41 PM, John C. Westmoreland, P.E. j...@westmorelandengineering.com wrote: Lisa, Thanks for this update. How many Resolution-T receivers

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

On 09/05/2013 03:37 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi My guess is that if GPS was down over the northeastern part of the US for most of a day, you would not have to check with TimeNuts. It would be on the evening news. Since your typical mobile GPS needs more sats than a timing receiver, they should

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

Hi Ok, I'll also mention that I haven't heard of any major volcanic eruptions in the north eastern US. GPS outages would not make it on the news if there was a major Volcano doing it's thing outside Cleveland …. If a sat went down, and did so in a pathogenic fashion, you would have an issue

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

On 09/05/2013 01:08 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Ok, I'll also mention that I haven't heard of any major volcanic eruptions in the north eastern US. GPS outages would not make it on the news if there was a major Volcano doing it's thing outside Cleveland …. Indeed. I think the problems could

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

Another scenario that would result in many reports from an area like New England is if only about a dozen people happened to be affected by one truck that was carrying a jammer. These dozen people would complain and from those few complaints you'd say we have a dozen reports from all over New

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

Hi You could indeed deploy a few thousand gizmos and have a pretty significant impact. I'm not at all sure that would be the easier task …. Bob On Sep 5, 2013, at 4:18 PM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 09/05/2013 01:08 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Ok, I'll also mention

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

Guys- Please forgive me for the BW.. My day-job mgmt. has also asked me today if I knew of any US regional GPS issues, as we too have had several reports of our customers systems going into Rb hold-over on or about the 4th of Sept. Only fact I can find is that SVN 4 was noted as an issue

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

Can anyone estimate how many GPS jammers there are in the New England area? There just might be thousands. I don't know. I think the reason most people are not effected is that most GPS user are mobile and if they are near a jammer it is only for a few minutes On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 4:59 PM,

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

Hello All, Not to go off on a tangent here but are there 'time nuts' distributed around the globe in such a way as we'd know about an outage? One good hiccup by the Sun and it could cause an outage - correct? ( http://www.spaceweather.com) It wasn't so long ago we were told the Iridium

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

John- I agree. We all should/would have seen even a minor outage. That's what makes the event from early this week a rather odd event. I have personally observed GPS jamming events from truck drivers trying to prevent being tracked. But those events are very localized it seems and are well

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

Hi My guess is that if GPS was down over the northeastern part of the US for most of a day, you would not have to check with TimeNuts. It would be on the evening news. Since your typical mobile GPS needs more sats than a timing receiver, they should drop out first. When the entire car / truck