Re: Using InstallAnywhere for Tomcat installer
Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/23/02 2:33 PM, Remy Maucherat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To get around this, Zero G has offered to donate a license of InstallAnywhere to Tomcat, as well as installer code. I have a strong -1 on this unless the licese is granted to ALL Jakarta projects. It isn't fair to judge one project under Jakarta more worthy of this license over other projects. Hey, what about the XML folks as well? Lots of Java code is developed over there as well. Frankly I'd reject even a license given only to the ASF. I would +1 it only if they had a license (with a little nag at startup, like the one we used to have in Jserv) free for everyone (or open-communities) to use... Pier -- I think that it's extremely foolish to name a server after the current U.S. President. B.W. Fitzpatrick -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Using InstallAnywhere for Tomcat installer
GOMEZ Henri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't want to do the OSS passionaria but we should try to use only OSS tools on Apache. NSIS is OSS so keep. For Free Java installer we have : IZPack : http://www.izforge.com/izpack/ VAInstall : http://vainstall.sourceforge.net/ FreeInstaller : http://www.xenonsoft.demon.co.uk/products/freeinstaller/index.html You're perfectly right... If there are valid alternatives with a compatible license, we simply can't advertise Zero-G over everyone else for free (what about Symantec, what about Aladdin, what about ... You name it)... Pier -- I think that it's extremely foolish to name a server after the current U.S. President. B.W. Fitzpatrick -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Using InstallAnywhere for Tomcat installer
Remy Maucherat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The licensing terms seems ok to me, so I wanted to see if the community was ok about it (apparently not). I didn't see their licensing terms So even if this installer is provided in addition to other OSS based installers, it's not ok ? Since when is this project refusing contributions from companies, BTW ? There's no explicit endorsement required, and no blinking ZeroG ad we'll have to put anywhere. They'll also provide the installer script. We're endorsing a commercial product when distributing an installer such as Zero-G with our code... Note: Did you notice what the httpd project was using for its installers (http://www.apache.org/dist/httpd/binaries/win32/apache_2.0.35-win32-x86-no_ ssl.msi) ? Doesn't seem OSS to me ... Not OSS, but directly derived from an Operating System... MSI (MicroSoft Installer) is embedded into each copy of Window$, they just leverage a capability already present in the platform... Pier -- I think that it's extremely foolish to name a server after the current U.S. President. B.W. Fitzpatrick -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Using InstallAnywhere for Tomcat installer
on 4/23/02 2:33 PM, Remy Maucherat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To get around this, Zero G has offered to donate a license of InstallAnywhere to Tomcat, as well as installer code. I have a strong -1 on this unless the licese is granted to ALL Jakarta projects. It isn't fair to judge one project under Jakarta more worthy of this license over other projects. Where did that rule that everything must be Jakarta-wide come from ? It's up to each project to ask IMO. Also, I don't see many Jakarta projects which could benefit from having an installer. James maybe. JMeter seems a better candidate for WebStart. Remy -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Using InstallAnywhere for Tomcat installer
Good/free advertising for zerog if installanywhere is used! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Using InstallAnywhere for Tomcat installer
Don't want to do the OSS passionaria but we should try to use only OSS tools on Apache. NSIS is OSS so keep. For Free Java installer we have : IZPack : http://www.izforge.com/izpack/ VAInstall : http://vainstall.sourceforge.net/ FreeInstaller : http://www.xenonsoft.demon.co.uk/products/freeinstaller/index.html -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Using InstallAnywhere for Tomcat installer
Don't want to do the OSS passionaria but we should try to use only OSS tools on Apache. NSIS is OSS so keep. Sure, no problem. The licensing terms seems ok to me, so I wanted to see if the community was ok about it (apparently not). So even if this installer is provided in addition to other OSS based installers, it's not ok ? Since when is this project refusing contributions from companies, BTW ? There's no explicit endorsement required, and no blinking ZeroG ad we'll have to put anywhere. They'll also provide the installer script. Note: Did you notice what the httpd project was using for its installers (http://www.apache.org/dist/httpd/binaries/win32/apache_2.0.35-win32-x86-no_ ssl.msi) ? Doesn't seem OSS to me ... Remy -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Using InstallAnywhere for Tomcat installer
NSIS is OSS so keep. Sure, no problem. The licensing terms seems ok to me, so I wanted to see if the community was ok about it (apparently not). So even if this installer is provided in addition to other OSS based installers, it's not ok ? Since when is this project refusing contributions from companies, BTW ? There's no explicit endorsement required, and no blinking ZeroG ad we'll have to put anywhere. They'll also provide the installer script. I don't refuse anything, just expose that I'd rather like an OSS Java installer. Note: Did you notice what the httpd project was using for its installers (http://www.apache.org/dist/httpd/binaries/win32/apache_2.0.35- win32-x86-no_ ssl.msi) ? Doesn't seem OSS to me ... Yes you're right and I was thinking at them will clicking 'send button' for my previous email (I was hopping you didn't find it too quickly ;) ). Yes, Apache HTTP team use M$ stuff for 1.3 and 2.0 but I'm not a commiter there so... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Using InstallAnywhere for Tomcat installer
I don't refuse anything, just expose that I'd rather like an OSS Java installer. (The main advantage is that we wouldn't have to build the script, since they would be contributing one, but I'm repeating myself) Yes you're right and I was thinking at them will clicking 'send button' for my previous email (I was hopping you didn't find it too quickly ;) ). Lol. I'm using it, so I know very well whet they're using ;-) Yes, Apache HTTP team use M$ stuff for 1.3 and 2.0 but I'm not a commiter there so... M$ installer tech, built with InstallShield :) For what they're doing with the installer, they could use NSIS instead IMO. Remy -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Using InstallAnywhere for Tomcat installer
+1 from me. Having a cross-platform and consistent installer would be good for tomcat. My only concern - I hope the 'one licence' would cover all versions of tomcat and more than one release manager ( and maybe it can be assigned to Mr. Gump and automated ). Costin On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Remy Maucherat wrote: I have been contacted by Zero G Software with the possibility of using InstallAnywhere for making a Tomcat installer. Tomcat currently uses NSIS for the Windows installer, and while it is powerful enough to get the job done, it is not multiplatform, and has a few annoying functional limitations. However, there's a major advantage to using NSIS, because it is open-source software. To get around this, Zero G has offered to donate a license of InstallAnywhere to Tomcat, as well as installer code. If we decide to use InstallAnywhere, it would probably be a good idea to put the installer code in a separate repository (jakarta-tomcat-installer ?), and also move the NSIS script there. The rationale is that while a NSIS install script is very small (one file, plus a few resources), an InstallAnywhere script is made of a significant number of Java classes. Of course, I don't see a reason for stopping to use the (already working) NSIS script, at least in the immediate future. Comments / votes ? Remy -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Using InstallAnywhere for Tomcat installer
I believe Apache httpd server is using MSI and InstallShield - and this is neither cross-ASF nor free. I'm not sugesting an exclusive deal with InstallAnywhere - we can try one of the OSS installers in parallel ( if someone has the time to do so ) and if they provide the same features, we'll just default to the free one. I'll change my vote to +0 - I don't have time for that, but if someone else wants to spend the time with a better cross platform installer - I think he should be able to choose the tool he wants. Costin On Wed, 24 Apr 2002, GOMEZ Henri wrote: Don't want to do the OSS passionaria but we should try to use only OSS tools on Apache. NSIS is OSS so keep. For Free Java installer we have : IZPack : http://www.izforge.com/izpack/ VAInstall : http://vainstall.sourceforge.net/ FreeInstaller : http://www.xenonsoft.demon.co.uk/products/freeinstaller/index.html -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Using InstallAnywhere for Tomcat installer
+1 from me. Having a cross-platform and consistent installer would be good for tomcat. My only concern - I hope the 'one licence' would cover all versions of tomcat and more than one release manager ( and maybe it can be assigned to Mr. Gump and automated ). That's brilliant. This way, if Zero G agrees, it would also be available for use by other Apache projects (therefore addressing Jon's problem). Remy -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Using InstallAnywhere for Tomcat installer
GOMEZ Henri wrote: I don't refuse anything, just expose that I'd rather like an OSS Java installer. I've recently been pointedly reminded that I'm not even a committer, but as the project guidelines encourage developers to comment and cast a nonbinding vote, I'll put on my flameproof suite and agree that I would prefer an OSS installer if at all possible. Using propriatary code has drawbacks like: - Unless the license is more liberal than I suspect, nobody but official Apache projects will be able to use the installer. Sometimes non-Apache projects do use Apache code, that's sort of half the advantage of being Open Source. Diluting that advantage would be a shame. - Contributing time and $$$ to a project that's being used as an advertisement for a potential competitor (that isn't contributing source code) is troubling. In this case not enough to make me (or probably anyone else) leave, but its annoying. If they want to participate, why don't they make plans to donate source code like everyone else? - If you aren't on the official list of supported platforms, you're hosed. With an OSS solution, a frustrated user of an obscure platform can make it work and then contribute the solution back to the community. - Although perhaps a verboten topic for discussion, there's the whole Open Source thing. Using a commercial installer if Open Source options are available is troubling from a philisophical standpoint. If you really buy into the advantage of Open Source, why dilute those advantages? If there's currently not an OSS solution available, then in the interest of expedience, I withdraw any objections. Which sounds sort of funny since it's nonbinding anyway, but what the heck. (Any personal email on this topic to /dev/null, keep it public please.) -- Christopher St. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] DistribuTopia http://www.distributopia.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Using InstallAnywhere for Tomcat installer
InstallAnywhere has both binary and byte-code installers. In fact the binary installers is just a self-estracting executable with byte-code. So in essence it works on any platform that has a JVM. InstallAnywhere is stable, very easy to use both as an end-user and as a build manager. I'm not going to get into a philosophical discussion about why to use OSS, but in the case of installers, InstallAnywhere is the best for Java apps, regardless of whether its proprietary or not. ~~K Kevin Z Grey Software Engineer -Original Message- From: Christopher K. St. John [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 12:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Using InstallAnywhere for Tomcat installer GOMEZ Henri wrote: I don't refuse anything, just expose that I'd rather like an OSS Java installer. I've recently been pointedly reminded that I'm not even a committer, but as the project guidelines encourage developers to comment and cast a nonbinding vote, I'll put on my flameproof suite and agree that I would prefer an OSS installer if at all possible. Using propriatary code has drawbacks like: - Unless the license is more liberal than I suspect, nobody but official Apache projects will be able to use the installer. Sometimes non-Apache projects do use Apache code, that's sort of half the advantage of being Open Source. Diluting that advantage would be a shame. - Contributing time and $$$ to a project that's being used as an advertisement for a potential competitor (that isn't contributing source code) is troubling. In this case not enough to make me (or probably anyone else) leave, but its annoying. If they want to participate, why don't they make plans to donate source code like everyone else? - If you aren't on the official list of supported platforms, you're hosed. With an OSS solution, a frustrated user of an obscure platform can make it work and then contribute the solution back to the community. - Although perhaps a verboten topic for discussion, there's the whole Open Source thing. Using a commercial installer if Open Source options are available is troubling from a philisophical standpoint. If you really buy into the advantage of Open Source, why dilute those advantages? If there's currently not an OSS solution available, then in the interest of expedience, I withdraw any objections. Which sounds sort of funny since it's nonbinding anyway, but what the heck. (Any personal email on this topic to /dev/null, keep it public please.) -- Christopher St. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] DistribuTopia http://www.distributopia.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Using InstallAnywhere for Tomcat installer
Kevin Grey wrote: So in essence it works on any platform that has a JVM. Nah, it only works fully on officially supported platforms. Which makes sense, because the whole advantage of using a good installer is that it paves over the nasty platform-specific install issues. There's a list at: http://www.zerog.com/products_ia_01.html The key words are Support for nearly every platform. InstallAnywhere is the best for Java apps, regardless of whether its proprietary or not. I won't argue, I've never heard a bad thing said about InstallAnywhere. But totally ignoring ethical issues is a bad long-term strategy. Certainly Tomcat wouldn't exist at all if it weren't for people considering some philisophical issues. Costin's suggestion to try it out in parallel with some of the Open Source options seemed pretty reasonable. -- Christopher St. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] DistribuTopia http://www.distributopia.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Using InstallAnywhere for Tomcat installer
on 4/23/02 2:33 PM, Remy Maucherat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To get around this, Zero G has offered to donate a license of InstallAnywhere to Tomcat, as well as installer code. I have a strong -1 on this unless the licese is granted to ALL Jakarta projects. It isn't fair to judge one project under Jakarta more worthy of this license over other projects. -jon -- Nixon: At least with liquor, I don't lose motivation. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
