Re: [Trisquel-users] Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread greatgnu
name is "gnu" - script kiddies are welcome! :)

[Trisquel-users] What Is In A Backup?

2015-10-05 Thread john_harvey
Hello all. Following the guide I managed to use the backup application. All well and good. In the external HD there is now a Triquel Backup Folder with my home folder. Q: should that only have a number of folders inside it named "duplicity-full._ etc"? Backups I'm familiar with

Re: [Trisquel-users] Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread Matthew Dyer
Hi, I can't help with your install problem, but as for orca, yes this comes up at start up. If you want to disable it ofcorse, you can press supper ault s to turn it off and it should stay off. Orca is the screen reader that is used for blimd users. HTH. Matthew On 10/05/2015 05:46

Re: [Trisquel-users] Root Partition Filled Up After Upgrade (6 > 7)

2015-10-05 Thread tegskywalker
Are you using btrfs? One time I tried it on my root partition and it filled up quickly due to its copy on write nature. It was a little while back though, so maybe the space issue was fixed in later kernels.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Root Partition Filled Up After Upgrade (6 > 7)

2015-10-05 Thread strypey
I do run autoremove and autoclean from time to time. They were the first things I tried. That cleared 8KB, but 14.5 GB is still being used by something. I will try your second suggestion next, but this was a fresh install of Toutatis a couple of days ago, so I doubt old kernels would be

Re: [Trisquel-users] Fix ntfs formatted disc in trisquel

2015-10-05 Thread t8mf4nu6lizp
Congrats, doesn't it just feel great?

Re: [Trisquel-users] Midori won't open some websites because of security certificate problems

2015-10-05 Thread t8mf4nu6lizp
It probably doesn't exist. But you can create one if you wish. Just edit a file with that name (~/.xinitrc) and save it. Make sure you have the gnome-keyring package installed. I agree it makes sense to file. You can include in the bug whether making this file as suggested helps.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Root Partition Filled Up After Upgrade (6 > 7)

2015-10-05 Thread strypey
Nope. I'm using EXT4 on both root and /home partitions, but only because ext is what I'm familiar with, and 4 is the latest version and has been out for a while. Are there better choices?

Re: [Trisquel-users] How Can I help?

2015-10-05 Thread strypey
What level of skills are required to be a Trisquel developer? I am a novice programmer, having only learned a few scraps of BASIC, Pascal, C#, and Python. The most ambitious things I've ever programmed was a text-only 2 player version of the BattleShip board game (using IDLE

Re: [Trisquel-users] Making radeon work again by bringing back Linux-libre 3.4

2015-10-05 Thread jbar
After adding the repo, update the list and install the new kernel $ sudo apt-get update $ sudo apt-get install linux-libre64-3.4

Re: [Trisquel-users] Fix ntfs formatted disc in trisquel

2015-10-05 Thread t8mf4nu6lizp
smartmontools

Re: [Trisquel-users] thinkpad x220 wireless problem

2015-10-05 Thread mcconnau
Today I did 'sudo apt-get update' and 'sudo apt-get upgrade' on my Trisquel Lenovo X60. Now the there seems to be no modem. Is this the same problem? If so you had better warn people and direct them to the solution.

Re: [Trisquel-users] What Is In A Backup?

2015-10-05 Thread freeworld4
If you are using the default software for backup on Trisquel in system settings - Backup. Yes it is normal I have used it before it compresses and encrypts if you select the encryption option. This renaming and compressing is actually good if you want to backup on a windows or mac partition

Re: [Trisquel-users] WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!

2015-10-05 Thread cooloutac
You can keep calling me crazy all you want, but you just admitted it... And the reason why I think the presence of non trisquel users like you is harmful to the free software movement, is because just like your attitude towards the op, you also drive away new users in the irc channel in

Re: [Trisquel-users] Fix ntfs formatted disc in trisquel

2015-10-05 Thread freeworld4
smartctl -H when I enter this command it says it doesn't exist. What package do I need to install to be able to use it?

Re: [Trisquel-users] Modernizing the Trisquel forums

2015-10-05 Thread tomlukeywood
"I'd be happy if the forum were just mailing lists." it would most likely immediate a lot of new users if that happened

Re: [Trisquel-users] Making radeon work again by bringing back Linux-libre 3.4

2015-10-05 Thread gnuser
Sorry, but I added the key, edited sources.list, but the only linux-libre that appears is 3.13. I can't find the 3.4... Should I do something else? Or maybe the problem is that I am trying to downgrade a package?? How can I solve this?

Re: [Trisquel-users] Professional Photography Tools Free Software

2015-10-05 Thread freeworld4
So the images look the same across different monitors and when I print them out on a printer they look as close as possible to how they look on the screen. This is how I do it with proprietary software I just use the same color profile with the screen as the printer and then it usually comes

Re: [Trisquel-users] Modernizing the Trisquel forums

2015-10-05 Thread mcz
About the looks, To change text size and background, it should be modifiable with the "Stylish" plugin. More like a temporary solution since a better default text size might matter for some new users. Or maybe We could just post a "Stylish" script that does just that.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Professional Photography Tools Free Software

2015-10-05 Thread mcz
So that's dealing with CMYK to RGB? How do you do it in a proprietary software? I mean what is your goal exactly? Is it to have a printed picture, and to use it to make the sRGB version look as close as possible (provided your screen is rather neutral, and calibrated)? I think GIMP has "some"

[Trisquel-users] Home VOIP service provider recommend

2015-10-05 Thread golyn
Hello Freedom lovers, The question is... What VOIP service provider would you recommend to use with jitsi, linphone, etc... to make international calls to the PSTN (Public Switch Telephone Network) aka Landlines. I'm particularly looking for an Europe provider but feel free to post for

Re: [Trisquel-users] Home VOIP service provider recommend

2015-10-05 Thread gromobir
www.sipgate.de is based in Germany and never let me down so far. Prices are reasonable.

[Trisquel-users] Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread gnuser
Hi, I have installed Trisquel 7, but I am getting some issues: 1. I can't use the Text Mode Install. Unless I connect to the internet, it won't allow me to go beyond the "choosing mirror" option. I have tried to go back and forth, but it seems like unless I get internet connection, I can't

Re: [Trisquel-users] How Can I help?

2015-10-05 Thread strypey
One of the most important things IMHO is for documentation to be accurate, thorough, up-to-date, and easy to navigate and search: http://trisquel.info/en/wiki/documentation That way, when users come across problems, they can use the instructions in the documentation to fix them. Being able

[Trisquel-users] how do I setup grive?

2015-10-05 Thread freeworld4
How do I setup google drive with grive?

Re: [Trisquel-users] how do I setup grive?

2015-10-05 Thread dennisjdufrene
Take a gander at this: http://www.webupd8.org/2015/05/grive2-grive-fork-with-google-drive.html

Re: [Trisquel-users] Modernizing the Trisquel forums

2015-10-05 Thread strypey
High-traffic mailing lists are fine if you are the kind of person who focuses on one project at a time, or has a fairly narrow range of interests. For magpies like myself who are involved at different levels in many different projects and communities, subscribing to mailing lists for all of

Re: [Trisquel-users] would anyone know of any online classes that i could learn more about linux?

2015-10-05 Thread calmstorm
I appreciate the feedback. Thank you, I will look into this.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Making radeon work again by bringing back Linux-libre 3.4

2015-10-05 Thread onpon4
It was able to work, but not with hardware acceleration.

Re: [Trisquel-users] thinkpad x220 wireless problem

2015-10-05 Thread mcconnau
I'm talking about the wifi. I got this X60 from gluglug.org. It uses libreboot. It has been through 1 previous upgrade without causing a problem.

Re: [Trisquel-users] What Is In A Backup?

2015-10-05 Thread freeworld4
You can go to System Settings then select backup and then select restore then follow popup window's directions according to what you want it to do. I think this is a great feature because you can do a fresh install and then you can use this restore feature to restore your home folder with

Re: [Trisquel-users] Making radeon work again by bringing back Linux-libre 3.4

2015-10-05 Thread anthk
Maybe it needs a legacy xorg/DRI driver?

Re: [Trisquel-users] Fix ntfs formatted disc in trisquel

2015-10-05 Thread freeworld4
Do you think this could be a mistake by trisquel? Windows says the partition is healthy and the smartctl -H /dev/sda3 says it passed. This happened after I upgrade from windows 7 to windows 10 after I upgraded to windows 10 I am not able to mount my ntfs partition and gparted gives a

Re: [Trisquel-users] Librebooted Macbook 2,1

2015-10-05 Thread lovexdrew
Is there any free wifi card that would work inside it?

Re: [Trisquel-users] My GPG/Enigmail is completely broken.

2015-10-05 Thread lovexdrew
Did it work?

Re: [Trisquel-users] Fix ntfs formatted disc in trisquel

2015-10-05 Thread freeworld4
I am done with microsoft their software sucks so bad I had so many issues with windows 10. Now time to only use Free Software! :) Dell Inspiron N5050 works great with trisquel and has 3d acceleration capability so you can play free software 3d games. The only thing that doesn't work is the

Re: [Trisquel-users] Librebooted Macbook 2,1

2015-10-05 Thread albin
It already comes with one from factory (an Atheros) so it doesn't need replacement! It's the only libreboot-compatible machine that doesn't have to be opened up to make it work properly.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Making radeon work again by bringing back Linux-libre 3.4

2015-10-05 Thread anthk
That driver didn't need propietary firmware while using UMS instead of KMS, no? https://wiki.freedesktop.org/xorg/RadeonFeatureUMS/

Re: [Trisquel-users] thinkpad x220 wireless problem

2015-10-05 Thread albin
Could you provide a list of packages that you upgraded? The wifi driver lives in the kernel so maybe you could try a different version of linux-libre.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Librebooted Macbook 2,1

2015-10-05 Thread gnufreeme
Sounds like the purchase was already made. In that case it does only good to liberate non-free hardware. We need more of that. Even if it did encourage people to buy new products from Apple, I believe on net balance that freeing them is still a greater act of good.

[Trisquel-users] Root Partition Filled Up After Upgrade (6 > 7)

2015-10-05 Thread strypey
Hi everyone, I just upgraded my second laptop (Fujitsu Lifebook) from Toutatis to Belenos using the Update Manager. Now I am getting warning messages that my root partition is full, and I have no idea why that would be. When I installed Toutatis, I set up a 16GB root partition, which I

[Trisquel-users] How Can I help?

2015-10-05 Thread dennisjdufrene
How can I help the project? I am not a programmer, but I am a Technical Writer by trade. I can write technical documentation, marketing slicks, video tutorials, etc. I do not have much cash, but I am willing to donate my time and skills! I think Trisquel is one of the better

Re: [Trisquel-users] Fix ntfs formatted disc in trisquel

2015-10-05 Thread freeworld4
Error mounting /dev/sda3 at /media/tyler/OS: Command-line `mount -t "ntfs" -o "uhelper=udisks2,nodev,nosuid,uid=1000,gid=1000,dmask=0077,fmask=0177" "/dev/sda3" "/media/tyler/OS"' exited with non-zero exit status 14: The disk contains an unclean file system (0, 0). Metadata kept in Windows

Re: [Trisquel-users] Fix ntfs formatted disc in trisquel

2015-10-05 Thread freeworld4
figured it out here is how to do it from command prompt. "sudo mount -o mount,ro /dev/sda3/" without the quotes and it works! :) Just find the partition location you need to mount in gparted in System Settings.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Fix ntfs formatted disc in trisquel

2015-10-05 Thread freeworld4
Now time to backup Winblows and then install trisquel over it! I am free at last free at last thank god almighty I am free at last! :)

Re: [Trisquel-users] Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread someonedidnotlikeitsothisishowitlooksnow
I redistributed your questions on a different order: a) 4) Already answer by Mr. Mzee. b) 2) & 5) I can't really help you on this one but I propose you to open another thread for this specifically. I think a guy recently claimed that he pressed Ctrl+C and there he was asked for a pass and

Re: [Trisquel-users] Making radeon work again by bringing back Linux-libre 3.4

2015-10-05 Thread gnuser
Hi. Thanks, that actually worked! synaptic wasn't showing 3.4 but apt actually did it. Now the problem I am facing is that even after I installed both kernel and headers, and updated grub, it still isn't showing :( Grub only shows the old kernel... I even checked here

Re: [Trisquel-users] What Is In A Backup?

2015-10-05 Thread freeworld4
This is what I do. I keep things I create that can't be easily made again in my home folder. For downloaded pictures videos documents and such that I want to keep I put manually (with the file manager nautilus) on my external hard drive to save space on my internal drive and also to separate

Re: [Trisquel-users] Midori won't open some websites because of security certificate problems

2015-10-05 Thread rhutter
I now can use locate. But the file .xinitrc is nowhere. I was looking for it because of this hint in the Midori FAQ: Error granting trust: Couldn't find a place to store the imported certificate No key store is available or it's incorrectly setup. By default GNOME keyring can do this. Under

Re: [Trisquel-users] Making radeon work again by bringing back Linux-libre 3.4

2015-10-05 Thread vitacell
And "linux-firmware" sometimes.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Librebooted Macbook 2,1

2015-10-05 Thread vitacell
I using Magic Trackpad with Touchegg, easy to programm. The built-in one is very bad.

Re: [Trisquel-users] What Is In A Backup?

2015-10-05 Thread freeworld4
The backup is a compressed archive of your files that's why it looks that way.

Re: [Trisquel-users] WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!

2015-10-05 Thread greatgnu
>You can keep calling me crazy all you want, but you just admitted it... Admitted what? Pills still not workinh eh? >...you also drive away new users in the irc channel in the same manner, or by promoting other distros and non free drivers. I never promoted no thing on IRC. I would rather

Re: [Trisquel-users] Helping new users choose application software

2015-10-05 Thread strypey
>> Is this not already the case?

Re: [Trisquel-users] Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread strypey
Mailing list users, can you please trim your posts? Top posts and excessive quoting are poor netiquette even in mailing lists, and those of us who use the web the access the forum don't need to see your PGP signatures or lengthy sig blocks every time you post. These things make both email

[Trisquel-users] Re : What Is In A Backup?

2015-10-05 Thread lcerf
Not "left click" but "right click". Déjà Dup's backups are incremental too: only what has changed since the last backup is added. Yet another reason for the weird format. And you can restore any file as it was at any date (don't worry about the external running out of space: Déjà Dup removed

Re: [Trisquel-users] Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread strypey
I've experimented with encrypting my /home folder or partition on install, and it seems to work. When I try to access the partition from another GNU/Linux instance on the same device, or a liveCD/USB, I am asked for a passphrase before it will let me access /home. I'm not even a script kiddy

Re: [Trisquel-users] Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread someonedidnotlikeitsothisishowitlooksnow
LOL! Because of that I only read your post and Mzee one. TL;DR to everything except those.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Fix ntfs formatted disc in trisquel

2015-10-05 Thread someonedidnotlikeitsothisishowitlooksnow
I'm kinda in a hurry. So, the bad sectors are phisycal bad sectors --- that's bad --- I'll try tomorrow to give u an advice on how to solve that (if it is possible in your case). The error of mounting you can possibly fix it doing: # sudo ntfsfix /dev/sda3 (it must be unmounted- no,

Re: [Trisquel-users] How Can I help?

2015-10-05 Thread someonedidnotlikeitsothisishowitlooksnow
Mr DennisD, what Trisquel really needs are developers. That is programmers that can commit code to Trisquel to solve the issues (http://trisquel.info/en/project/issues). If can do some marketing slicks to attrack programmers to Trisquel project, most of us will be celebrating with lots of

[Trisquel-users] Re : Root Partition Filled Up After Upgrade (6 > 7)

2015-10-05 Thread lcerf
You can see what takes space from the "Disk usage analyzer" (the command is 'baobab' if you do not want to search in the menus). Two probable causes and solutions: You never remove the .deb packages and /var/cache/apt/archives/ eats up the space -> 'sudo apt-get clean' to remove all .deb

Re: [Trisquel-users] How Can I help?

2015-10-05 Thread dennisjdufrene
This I could do. Let me work up a few ideas.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread strypey
Text mode installation can be helpful if the packages on the liveCD/USB are not up-to-date enough to fully support a graphical interface on the user's computer. I recently had an issue where the graphical installer kept crashing on me before completing, so I too resorted to the text install.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread gnuser
No one here uses full disk encryption? How does it work for you?

Re: [Trisquel-users] Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread gnuser
Hum yes, I think I remember something like that back in Ubuntu 10.04 Now that you mention it I remember yes. But still, I don't like it this way... In "User accounts" my account is marked as "Administrator". AND something funny happened, I actually unlocked the options (using my password)

[Trisquel-users] Antwort: Modernizing the Trisquel forums

2015-10-05 Thread shiretoko
The forum is not "just fine" at the moment. A major issue occurs if posts get a lot of replies. At some point, it's impossible to find out "who replied to who". Also, nested posts get more and more narrow and at somepoint, are impossible to read. Trisquel aims at people who are not so

Re: [Trisquel-users] Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread onpon4
Authentication failure happens, because you don't know the password. You can do "sudo su", though.

[Trisquel-users] Re : Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread lcerf
With the graphical install (but maybe with the text one too), you only need to rather quickly use the Live system after it boots and Orca is not enabled.

[Trisquel-users] Re : Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread lcerf
When you write about "the Text Mode Install", you do not mean "the NetInstall", do you? Because the "NetInstall" obviously needs the Net.

[Trisquel-users] Re : Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread lcerf
Execute 'sudo passwd root', give root a password and take the administrative privileges away from the first created user. You would then end up with a security administration à la Debian. One advantage in not having a password for "root" is that script kiddies must not only guess the

[Trisquel-users] Antwort: Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread shiretoko
I can only help with the third issue. Trisquel goes the "Ubuntu way" when it comes to root authentication. It uses sudo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudo). I think you actually know that but maybe you forgot during your time with debian. So from my understanding, there is a root account in

Re: [Trisquel-users] Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread gnuser
What happens if instead of "sudo" you try to use "su"? Do you get root/administrator permissions with your password anyway?

[Trisquel-users] Re : Librebooted Macbook 2,1

2015-10-05 Thread lcerf
For 2), you only need to add the command to the "Startup applications" (in the "System settings").

[Trisquel-users] Re : Graphics driver support for Intel® G33 x86/MMX/SSE2 with Trisquel GNU/Linux's 64-bit version.

2015-10-05 Thread lcerf
As far as I understand, it only is part of the video driver. The main part is in the kernel.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread gnuser
Yeah, I eventually found it. I know it is probably a "feature" for visually impaired people, but the voice is still very irritating. Lol. Anyway, I could really use some help with the other questions, I am a total loss :( If I really have to connect to the internet during install

Re: [Trisquel-users] Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread gnuser
No, I mean the "Text Mode Install", or "Expert install". Don't remember how is it spelled. I am not confusing with the netinstall ;) Btw, thanks a lot for all the replies, very useful information! The explanation on sudo vs su was right on! I will later decide how I will handle things.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Modernizing the Trisquel forums

2015-10-05 Thread greatgnu
>nested posts get more and more narrow and at somepoint, are impossible to read. yep. that's the only issue with teh forum.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread gnuser
Ok, so to answer myself, regarding point 2 (not being able to input password without linux giving me output messages) here is the solution I found: sudo nano /etc/default/grub GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash" GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="console=tty12" Now all is black until it asks for the

Re: [Trisquel-users] Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread gromobir
I can only help with #4 as you can easily disable ORCA (https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/disable-orca-screen-reader-startup-without-uninstall-it)

Re: [Trisquel-users] Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread Adonay Felipe Nogueira
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 I don't know much about Sudo and its relation with the root account and other accounts. What I do know so far is: * sudo cd "${HOME}" doesn't do what you might expect because: (1) Sudo looks for standalone programs, and cd is a built-in GNU Bash

Re: [Trisquel-users] Modernizing the Trisquel forums

2015-10-05 Thread mcz
Makes sense. But I insist on a way to display announcements (security related at least), and that it stays javascript-free, or at least works with libre javascript.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Lenovo G510

2015-10-05 Thread jadedml
You should instead opt for using Intel integrated graphics and an Atheros wireless card. Check the http://h-node.org website for information on hardware compatible with Trisquel. h-node even lists laptops that work with Trisquel. :)

Re: [Trisquel-users] Lenovo G510

2015-10-05 Thread t8mf4nu6lizp
Hi there! I'm afraid the answer is mostly no. You're guaranteed to have a bad experience with an AMD GPU. If you were hoping to switch between the AMD and the intel GPUs that will at very least require tinkering and might not work. The Broadcom wifi likely will not work. Perhaps if you

Re: [Trisquel-users] Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread moxalt
I don't actually use encryption of any kind (although I used to use home directory encryption) because I am far more concerned about my computer or OS dying and then not being able to get my stuff because of the encryption rather than someone breaking in and nabbing my drives.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Modernizing the Trisquel forums

2015-10-05 Thread Dave Hunt
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I'd be happy if the forum were just mailing lists. On 10/05/2015 12:28 PM, moxalt wrote: > Whatever is done, don't sacrifice the mailing list! It is the > lifeblood of many. > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1

[Trisquel-users] Antwort: Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread shiretoko
I also once did a full disk encryption (also with debian i guess) and it didn't take long at all to setup. But i really think it was successfully encrypted, because everytime i booted the pc, i had to enter a passphrase. Maybe it's a different way of encrypting? Would be great if somebody

Re: [Trisquel-users] Encrypt home directory after install

2015-10-05 Thread moxalt
I have no idea how it works either, but it seems to work fine on the same partition. Apparently ecryptfs uses a sort of filesystem-within-a-filesystem approach to encrypting areas of a partition, rather than the entire partition. The only downside to disk encryption in general is that (for me at

Re: [Trisquel-users] Problems with Trisquel 7 install

2015-10-05 Thread moxalt
I'm pretty sure the 'text-mode installer' offered on the standard Trisquel edition ISO is identical to the installer on the netinstall ISO. Both are basically clones of the Debian text-mode installer. Why the reluctance to just connect to the internet? Why use the text-mode installer in the first

Re: [Trisquel-users] Modernizing the Trisquel forums

2015-10-05 Thread moxalt
+1

Re: [Trisquel-users] Modernizing the Trisquel forums

2015-10-05 Thread moxalt
Whatever is done, don't sacrifice the mailing list! It is the lifeblood of many.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Modernizing the Trisquel forums

2015-10-05 Thread legimet . calc
From the front page: "The version 1.4.3 offers support of responsive design, the OpenSearch plugin, and many more." Now, I have no idea what that means :P

Re: [Trisquel-users] Modernizing the Trisquel forums

2015-10-05 Thread moxalt
Same. That's the only issue I've ever picked up on when actually accessing the forums online, rather than through my mail client. I seem to be one of the few who are perfectly happy with the forum the way it is. My only requests would be figure out some better threading mechanism (or stop