Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Hi! Do you think Trisquel is ok for the general public to use already? Curious. To be honest, I think not yet. Well, I don't know. On 04/08/2015 08:19 AM, xnchg...@guerrillamailblock.com wrote: This is such a terrible attitude. The vast majority of computer users will *never* type anything into a command line, ever. The vast majority of computer users simply will not use an operating system the use of which requires them to type anything into a command line, and nothing anyone has to say about it will ever change that. The Trisquel project holds Trisquel out as an operating system suitable for use by the general public. Do you beleive in the virtue of software freedom? If you think it's okay for free software to be useable only by a small minority of people, then in effect you're saying most people should use proprietary software, and ultimately you do not beleive in the virtue of software freedom. Besides: Add/Remove Applications ships with Trisquel, hence it should work.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
I think Trisquel is OK for the general public to use. You don't need to even touch the terminal to use Trisquel, but people on the forums tell people how to use it anyways. (I'm guilty of this as well...) Add/Remove Applications is fine, but GNOME Software is much better. I hope Trisquel 8 switches to it...
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Yeah. I wonder why the heck Trisquel sticks with gnome-app-install when it's long been deprecated upstream (replaced by Software Center), but it does work OK.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Do you beleive in the virtue of software freedom? If you think it's okay for free software to be useable only by a small minority of people, then in effect you're saying most people should use proprietary software This statement is _ridiculous_. The virtue of software freedom is neither usability nor functionality, and nobody promised to you that free software has any of those two properties. Developers try very hard to make it happen though, but if they fail - to what extent doesn't matter here -, they don't force people to use proprietary software because of that. Supertramp indicated a way how to get the job done with free software; if the general public isn't satisfied with this, that's unfortunate. If you argue like that you come to the absurd conclusion that everybody is guilty of forcing people into proprietary software who does not actively write completely satisfactory free software;
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
This is such a terrible attitude. The vast majority of computer users will *never* type anything into a command line, ever. The vast majority of computer users simply will not use an operating system the use of which requires them to type anything into a command line, and nothing anyone has to say about it will ever change that. The Trisquel project holds Trisquel out as an operating system suitable for use by the general public. Do you beleive in the virtue of software freedom? If you think it's okay for free software to be useable only by a small minority of people, then in effect you're saying most people should use proprietary software, and ultimately you do not beleive in the virtue of software freedom. Besides: Add/Remove Applications ships with Trisquel, hence it should work.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
By the way, I did indeed install Icedove using the terminal. My original post was a general commentary about the transition to Icedove, not a request for help. Perhaps that was not clear and if so I appologize. My point here is that just use the terminal is not a good answer from a overall policy perspective because, if that's the only answer the community has to offer, most users potential users will simply give up on the software. I can't even count how many people I know have completely given up on linux because they beleive it requires use of a terminal.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
well..don't use add/remove apps - the app is flawed anyway. Use synaptics or better yet the terminal and aptitude search and apt-get install..
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
I'd have to say the transition is not going smoothly so far. Just as an example, take the case of a new user of Trisquel 7.0 who is accustomed to installing software from Add/Remove Applications. He goes to Add/Remove Applications, and searches for Thunderbird (because he's used it in the past and knows the name). Thunderbird appears as an option to install! So he checks it, but finds that the curser starts swirling and nothing ever happens again, indefinitely. If by some miracle he decided instead to search for Icedove (and how would he know to do that in the first place), Icedove does not appear as an option to install! So as I said, not a very smooth transition.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Thunderbird won't install from Add/Remove Applications, so I tried sudo apt-get install thunderbird, whereupon I was informed that IceDove had replaced Thunderbird and the installation of IceDove proceeded forthwith without incident. Now I'm hunting for the Profiles location so I can start importing my old profiles from the hard drive that housed debian before that computer died. IceDove works on linux nearly exactly the way Thunderbird works on *indows, so I can keep two IceDoves running in parallel on these two OS's (on different computers) and transfer profiles w/o hassles if one gets hosed. I had to do that once when an antivirus program made the Thunderbird Inbox on the *indows PC vanish, and it went fine ... in the end, I restored the T-bird Inbox perfectly.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
yes. copy the folder to /home and yes. you need to rename it .icedove
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
In the home user folder, there's a .thunderbird (or .icedove) folder. Copy that to your Trisquel home and (if needed) rename to .icedove
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Don't forget Evolution!
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
I seem to recall there being an issue installing Lightning for this version of Icedove. Does anyone have experience with this?
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Actually, the one for Wheezy works as well, so try that instead.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
And there it is! Thanks much developers et al!
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
You can take it from Debian's repos http://mozilla.debian.net/ (The one for Squeeze (oldstable), Icedove version ESR works prefectly - not sure about the one for Wheezy.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
+1 for claws-mail with plugins (bogofilter, mail archiver, mailmbox, pgp, fancy html, RSSyl [feed reader]. Osmo is a good alternative to Lightning, much better than vcalendar plugin. Would like to see claws be the default email client, on Trisquel mini sylpheed is default, but IMHO claws mail is much better and just as light.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
So, no solution yet? Can we not add a version of Icedove to the Trisquel 6.01 repos? Really? 6.01 is supported until 2017.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
update your package list sudo apt-get update then try.. I got it today
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Icedove (the one I installed according to the link I provided above) has certainly got it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
So you basically want to say that it took two years to remove a package in order to fix a bug with highest priority (which the existence of nonfree software in trisquel in fact is)? Sorry, but it gets harder and harder for me to take trisquel seriously
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
For those on Trisquel 6: http://mozilla.debian.net/ (The instructions for Squeeze works, I haven't tried the one for Jessie).
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/isp-database just found this in the internet. does that also count for icedove?
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
I don't get this: There was an FSF blog post from either earlier this year or last year making a list of software the FSF was using, and Thunderbird was in the list. It has been absolutely common knowledge that Thunderbird was in Trisquel. People talked about and recommended Thunderbird all the time. Look at this, an issue about this from 2 years ago: https://trisquel.info/en/issues/6456 And you're honestly saying that Thunderbird was in Trisquel by mistake for all that time, and the mistake was only realized when RMS sent an email about it? What's the trigger here? I don't get it. Did RMS really need to personally announce that this is a problem before it was taken seriously?
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Everything works great. The only issue I have is the missing import function in vCalendar, so I have to rewrite all entries from Lightning.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Yes, it helped. Thank you for clarifying that jxself, I didn't fully understand all of that. :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Could you tell us about the email you mentioned? Never heard of it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
A user reported this issue on the IRC channel several days ago, then mailed it to RMS (who reminded us of it at least on https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/gnu-linux-libre/2014-10/msg7.html). Known obvious freedom issues open for 1.5+ years after the developer decided that they need to be fixed probably occur in all distros. FSF sites do contain mistakes like recommendations of nonfree software (or hardware that requires nonfree software). Both can be quickly corrected if people report the problem and propose a solution. The Trisquel issue does not link to a patch that would e.g. add Icedove with the free addon list. pgpCl62uAltrH.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Nice to know, Thanks you :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Are there any instruction for upgrade and removing thunderbird for icedove on trisquel 6? Thanks you.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
OK, but instead of removing thunderbird completely on T6, wouldn't it have been a better idea to replace it with icedove and add a transitional package for thunderbird?
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Yeah, Trisquel should be patching Ubuntu's Thunderbird appropriately and renaming the package to e.g. icedove, and the thunderbird package should become a transitional package for the new package. Suddenly panicking and removing Thunderbird entirely was a bad decision. I note that the FSF's Email Self-Defense page only provides instructions for Thunderbird, and in general Thunderbird is a lot easier to set up than most email clients. Not having Thunderbird or a variant is problematic for new users.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
And you're honestly saying that Thunderbird was in Trisquel by mistake for all that time, and the mistake was only realized when RMS sent an email about it? I have to agree, I even made a forum post asking why we weren't using icedove well over a year ago, and got exactly one response (I don't know). This wasn't a mistake, it's been common knowledge.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
christian wrote: And you're honestly saying that Thunderbird was in Trisquel by mistake for all that time, and the mistake was only realized when RMS sent an email about it? I have to agree, I even made a forum post asking why we weren't using icedove well over a year ago, and got exactly one response (I don't know). This wasn't a mistake, it's been common knowledge. Bug #6456: https://trisquel.info/en/issues/6456 Andrew.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
This wasn't a mistake, it's been common knowledge. Knowledge of a mistake doesn't mean that it didn't originate as a mistake. It did take a long time to get corrected, yes, and many people knew of this being an example of non-free software existing in Trisquel. It's still a mistake though because non-free software doesn't belong in Trisquel. Whether you want to call the inclusion a mistake or an error or whatever the outcome is still the same.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Man, thunderbird was part of trisquel for years and years. Now that it has been removed for a few days we shouldn't even tell people anymore how to install it? This is just ridiculous, sorry.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Unfortunately the state of freedom can change on these projects. So long as you can ensure that you are getting a purely free version then it is no real issue for installation instructions but that cannot be done here. Personally I'm just saddened that Thunderbird is no longer free software but that just means we need to find alternative solutions.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Thunderbirs was very slow, my alternative is: Thunderbird: sudo apt-get install claws-mail Enigmail: sudo apt-get install claws-mail-pgpinline claws-mail-pgpmime AntiSpam: sudo apt-get install claws-mail-bogofilter Notification: sudo apt-get install claws-mail-multi-notifier For html e-mail: sudo apt-get install claws-mail-fancy-plugin For Lightning: sudo apt-get install osmo
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Thanks for your information. I will give claws-mail a try. You are using claws-mail-pgpinline, right? Is everything working well? I remember one issue with enigmail in the past where it failed to encrypt mails and sent these mails unencrypted. I have to write a new appamor profile for claws-mail but it shouldn't take much time.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
What are you talking about? Afaik the trademark issues with thunderbird existee for a long time. Can you explain which changes you mean?
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Yes, for me it works really good.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Thunderbird in theory IS free software, but free software evangelists don't like that it uses the Mozilla add-ons page which contains some non-free packages. Btw, does this IceDove release replace the integrated Bing search with DuckDuckGo?
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
People should not install package outside repositoires. Apt check each packages against their digital signature and if the signature don't match the official one, warn you and ask you what to do (install anyway or discard). Usually when you have this error just run apt-get update and you're ok. If you download thunderbird from ubuntu's website the connection is not encrypted (is http) so is easy to compromise your security by a man-in-the-middle attach made by NSA spying program or compromised network device (at your home/office/isp/backbone) If you download icedove from debian's website you are using https that is ok, but you don't check the digital signature and this is bad because this is an additional security system that allow you to not trust the mirror's that you have used. For example see here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BasicSecurity 4. stick to the official repo's as much as possible, and only deviate from them when strictly necessary and with much caution; A good paper is: https://wiki.debian.org/SecureApt Probably a solution can be How to manually check for package's integrity but probably you have to import some external keys. IMHO best solution is to install claws-mail.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Ok, I've removed the Thunderbird part. Thank you.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
I have tried apt-get upgrade but I have no updates from thunderbird, icedove or whatever. When are the replacement planned? Thanks you.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
That's true, but the ubuntu/debian keyrings are included in the Trisquel repos, so you don't need to import external keys to verify
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Man, thunderbird was part of trisquel for years and years. By mistake.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Thunderbird in theory IS free software Even if you ignore the add-on problem it is not because all four freedoms are not available. You get 3 or maybe 3.5 depending on how you count. Rebranded versions allow you to escape Mozilla's crazy licensing and restore all 4. So Mozilla Thunderbird proper cannot be said to be free software, no, since all 4 freedoms aren't available with Mozilla Thunderbird. Hope that helps. :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Ah so that's why.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Is there any chance of including Icedove in 6?
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Trisquel 6.01 is supported until 2017 with no Thunderbird/Icedove? How would I install either of these programs?
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
The proper way to transition is replacing with transitional packages, not by removing the package. Trisquel has too many of these annoying issues with packages.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Well, if you want to install Icedove I'd suggest you install gdebi first: $ sudo apt-get install gdebi Then, try to download Icedove from debian's repos, try Jessie or Wheezy: https://packages.debian.org/jessie/icedove Afterwards, cd to the Download directory and use Gedbi to install: $ sudo gdebi icedove_31.0-3_i386.deb If this doesn't work, try with other version inside debian. If you are desparate, go to Ubuntu's repos and repeat tha same for Thunderbird. http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/mail/ Don't forget to install the locale package you need.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
This is unsafe. Please don't follow this istruction. Install software only via apt-get that download package from the repositoires.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
How is this unsafe? These aren't just some random binaries, they're packages maintained by the Debian and Ubuntu projects. Also, this doesn't enable updates, so it's not as if you have to worry about something no good being recommended as an upgrade later.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Please, expose why, I want to know. This is not a pasive-agressive comment, I really want to know why it is so.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Part of the suggestion was going to Ubuntu and installing Thunderbird. Thunderbird is not free software. Please don't suggest installing non-free software on these forums or the mailing list.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Q\\\I'm glad this has finally been done; now, we're free of conflicts with Mozilla's trademark issues.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Thanks for the info.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Thanks for this info brah!
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
I still have Thunderbird and I cant update. Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Package icedove is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source E: Package 'icedove' has no installation candidate
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Claws-Mail is the best!!
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Thunderbird is not available either in Trisquel 6 or 7, anymore. But Icedove has only been added to the repository of Trisquel 7.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
I figured as much, I'm back on T6 and could not find IceDove.
Re: [Trisquel-users] IceDove replaced Thunderbird.
Yes, the change was necessary to avoid Mozilla's trademark policy which disallowed commercial distribution - a necessary thing to have freedom #2.
