You, David, write as a student of theological history. This is a fair
treatment of Calvin. Thanks for this.
- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: November 27, 2005 19:39
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 'Calvin's beliefs are of
cd: I maintain that God has kept it from the wise in their own eyes and gave it to children. And this is a Pastor-the very reason street preaching is important.
- Original Message -
From: Christine Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/27/2005 11:55:32 PM
Subject: Re:
This is a WorldNetDaily printer-friendly version of the
article which follows.
To view this item online, visit
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25998
Thursday,
January 10, 2002
Did you have a happy Kwanzaa?
By Joseph Farah
I'd be more inclined to ask that we attend to the
part played by Christians in generating such a celebration of one's heritage.
Yes, dearest detractors, I do comprehend that it was not we alone who are
accountable for the 'African diaspora' .Arabs, Africans themselves, along with
other
Lance, you think we should not be
identified with or as what? And what is SNL? (Super Natural Living?) Your
biggest concern is the part played by Christians in slaveryis that your
point? Please say it aint so. iz
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
It IS so. Your response?
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: November 28, 2005 07:28
Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Happy
Kwanza?
Lance, you think we
should not be identified with or as what? And what is
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:39:58 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dean
wrote: -No I did not read the entire work-but as you know
we can know a tree by its fruit-when A Saints plan and carries
out a gruesome death of another Christian and later shows no
remorse they have
Calvin forced the citizens of Geneva to
attend church services under a heavy threat of punishment. Since Calvinism falsely teaches that God forces the elect to believe, it
is no wonder that Calvin thought he could also force the citizens of Geneva to
all become the elect. Not becoming one of
Oh Lance - and what is that?
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 07:12:28 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I'd be more inclined to ask that we attend to the part played by Christians in generating
such a celebration of one's heritage. Yes, dearest detractors, I do comprehend
that it was
What in the world is "theological history?" Is it
religious history revised every seven years
or so as is secular history? How about fair
treatment for Servetus? He may have been a
deceived astrologer but he was not a
murderer.
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 05:47:15 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL
That is such blatant, predictable
politically correct liberal-speak! Move on to something original, Lance. Try
to react to the actual article issues about Kwanzas founder being a despicable
human being; and not with politico-speech-thought about it being the fault of Christians.
iz
Ppl in denial Iz have got to find somebody or group to
blame - it's like a scapegoat mentality.
However, the real culprit - SIN - is never ever
mentioned.
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 07:36:58 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
That is such blatant,
predictable politically
A welcome back to the good old TT!! What
with Judy SNL'ing' Calvin and Iz speaking from the 'golden EIB microphone';
ain't it good to have things back on a more pleasant footing?
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
Judy: Do you believe it possible that a believer
can be sinning in their speech yet not know it?
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: November 28, 2005 08:42
Subject: Re: [Bulk]
Kevin, these discussions between Dean and John regarding violence are an
offshoot of the Izzy/Dave thread, so if you wish to continue it please do so
privately.
Thanks,
Perry the Moderator
From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To:
{:-)
Lance Muir wrote:
A welcome back to the good
old TT!! What with Judy SNL'ing' Calvin and Iz speaking from the
'golden EIB microphone'; ain't it good to have things back on a more
pleasant footing?
...In conclusion, I hope this little
cultural and history lesson helps you see the light about Kwanzaa. It's being
taught to your kids in your government schools. It's become a commercial bonanza
in black communities through the United States. And, now, even the
president of the
John, this thread is quickly deteriorating. I don't have time to go into a
lot of detail. Suffice it to say that Robertson makes a distinction between
descriptive durative and numerous other forms of linear action. No, it is
not an argument AGAINST linear action. It is a refinement of
Bill Taylor wrote:
Hence it is my opinion that Robertson, while a well
respected and noteworthy scholar, misses it here,
himself having been influenced by the older, less
reliable translations.
Fair enough, Bill. I certainly understand your viewpoint. My primary
concern has been with your
DAVEH: So where's the truth? Judy posted a pretty compelling argument
that was diametrically opposed to DavidM's comments. Which is correct?
Lance Muir wrote:
You, David, write as a student of theological history. This is a fair
treatment of Calvin. Thanks for this.
--
Judy, this history you are reading here is extremely biased against Calvin.
It has some truth and some falsehood contained in it. It also omits many
important facts. It spins the issue against Calvin. If I get time, I will
try and sort some of this out for you, if you are interested. I am
Well, Lance, you did ask for a response !! :-)-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 07:36:58 -0600Subject: RE: [Bulk] [TruthTalk] Happy Kwanza?
That is such blatant, predictable politically correct liberal-speak!
Not if they are walking after the Spirit; I believe
worldliness in speech and action is sin because a
friend of the world is God's enemy.
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 08:58:07 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Judy: Do you believe it possible that a believer
can be sinning in their
Do you believe that the majority of people are cast into hell? Can you help
me understand what you are saying when you say that many will be cast into
hell?
DAVEH: To me there are varying degrees of hell, depending on how close
to God you are locatedso to speak. Very few will be
There is more history to this than you are considering. If you want a more
objective historian's viewpoint who still sides against Calvin, consider
Schaff's History of the Christian Church. You can read his treatment at
http://www.ccel.org/s/schaff/history/8_ch16.htm
The facts you mention
It sounds like you are describing the different levels of heaven when you
are describing the different levels of hell. Can you outline for me your
different levels of heaven, and where exactly hell is located in this
outline? When I read below, I see you as making hell all but the highest
I have no idea why you ignore the fact that most translaters do not insert the word "being" into their translations. DM
It does not appear to me that you are less dogmatical than I.
I am only saying that linear-passive is the description of this participle AND NO ONE DENIES THAT.
Secondly,
DAVEH:
So where's the truth? Judy posted a pretty compelling
argument that was diametrically opposed to DavidM's
comments. Which is correct?
All you have to do, Dave, is read more history from both sides. What you
find is that many people spin the facts however they want to spin it. The
DAVEH: So where's the truth? Judy posted a pretty
compelling argument that was diametrically opposed to DavidM's
comments. Which is correct?
All you have to do, Dave, is read more history from both sides. What
you find is that many people spin the facts however they want to spin
it. The
John wrote:
When I say that are being sanctified is a
better translation for a student of the biblical
message (and that is my point), I am not being
dogmatic -- simply opinionated. If there is
not a difference, then your assessment is correct.
Dogmatic means expressing a RIGID
[Original Message]
From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 11/28/2005 8:59:23 AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] **Moderaor Comment**: Terry, let me put it in
perspective for you.
Kevin, these discussions between Dean and John regarding violence are an
I will discuss this issue with you, onceI investigate the best way to proceedCharles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kevin, these discussions between Dean and John regarding violence are an offshoot of the Izzy/Dave thread, so if you wish to continue it please do so privately.Thanks,Perry
You seem to think that the syntax alone justifies your insertion of the word "being." I believe that context and semantic range of understanding of phrases is necessary to fully understand the intended meaning and to bring it over properly into English. DM
My point exactly And "are being
cd: Now this is the Calvin I know of.Good work Judy-sorry for not being much help as I have been preoccupied
- Original Message -
From: Judy Taylor
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/28/2005 8:11:50 AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Calvin's Beliefs and the fruit of them in his life
There is more history to this than you are considering. If you want a
more objective historian's viewpoint who still sides against Calvin,
consider Schaff's History of the Christian Church. You can read his
treatment at http://www.ccel.org/s/schaff/history/8_ch16.htm
I did go to and read
[Original Message]
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 11/27/2005 7:39:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 'Calvin's beliefs are of Satan-He was an evil
man' says Dean Moore
Dean wrote:
-No I did not read the entire work-but as you know
we can know a
Comments in blue.
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 11:41
AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Calvin's Beliefs
and the fruit of them in his life
cd: Now this is the Calvin I know of.Good work
cd Unfortunately many historians disagree with you David.
[Original Message]
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 11/28/2005 9:59:52 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvin's Beliefs and the fruit of them in his
life
Judy, this history you are reading here
cd : Be it know that I will accept the apologizes from any who ask for
misrepresenting me as a violent man solely on the fact that I stated that
I would not allow my wife to be asked sexual questions and that I would be
at the door of any person or persons that ask such questions-If apologies
are
JD wrote: If (a) you do not see babe - maturity as a process and (b) if you do not see that the "practice" as a move into holiness -- then you will not see why I used this passage. I do see the maturity process in Heb 5, but it is (b) I do not see. The practice is not as a move into
-Original Message-From: Christine Miller verilysaid@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 10:48:04 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Back to Heb 10:14
JD wrote:If (a) you do not see babe - maturity as a process and (b) if you do not see that the "practice" as
cd wrote:
At one point,it is true,Calvin wanted Servetus beheaded. Beheading was
employed for civil offences, and Calvin wanted it to appear to be a civil
matter rather than a religious one. But as there were no grounds for this,
the idea had to be given up.( Fisk, Calvinistic Paths Retraced.
cd wrote:
Unfortunately many historians disagree
with you David.
I'm not aware of many. Who did you have in mind? What are their specific
disagreements?
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought
I have already defined sanctification: it is a spiritual adoption. When we are sancitified, we are made children of God, and as a child of god, made clean. We are forgiven and may take our places in the body of Christ (and ultimately, Heaven). Sanctification is not to be confused with the
David, I have Will Durant's book on the Reformation and
some other historical
type works that say much the same as what Dean is
writing. Why do you call
these ppl "enemies of Calvin?" I certainly would
not seek something written by
a "Calvinist" for an objective view and I don't believe
you
JD om green. -Original Message-From: Christine Miller verilysaid@yahoo.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:04:44 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Back to Heb 10:14
I have already defined sanctification: it is a spiritual adoption. When we are sancitified, we
DAVEH: Thanx for your advice on this, DavidM...especially considering
your time constraints.
Not that I want to open another can of worms, but in light of my
discussion (if it could be called
that) with Perry and whether or not there is any truth to be found on
TT, these exchanges you are
It sounds like you are describing the different levels of heaven when you
are describing the different levels of hell.
DAVEH: Yes, that's the way I prefer to look at it. The effect though
is as it is described in the Bible.a pain that burns without
consuming. In effect it is an intense
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