Re: [TruthTalk] 'Calvin's beliefs are of Satan-He was an evil man' says Dean Moore

[Dave Hansen]

DAVEH:   Thanx for your advice on this, DavidM...especially considering your time constraints.      Not that I want to open another can of worms, but in light of my discussion (if it could be called that) with Perry and whether or not there is any truth to be found on TT, these exchanges you are having with Judy and Dean illustrate the problem I see with TT.  I don't know which side is giving the truth about Calvin, but I'd sure be surprised if you are able to convert Judy and/or Dean to your way of seeing it, and likewise....I doubt you will be jumping over to your side of the fence.     When I asked you the question, So where's the truth?......the answer ain't so simple..... All you have to do, Dave, is read more history from both sides. ........without engaging in a lot of independent study and then drawing conclusions based on that.  But perhaps I'm being a bit too critical.  I suppose you could have given me a dogmatic answer that would have been no different than Judy and Dean's answers.      Either way....it leads me to believe truth is pretty illusive on TT.  Forgive me for harping on that theme, but it has become pretty apparent recently that truth really isn't the focus of TT.  If anything, it seems to be more a place to argue truth without real truth being all that relevant.  I don't know if that makes any sense though.....     FWIW.....I do have a genuine interest in Calvin, as I've heard a lot of stuff related to him on the radio program (Key Life Ministries with Steve Brown) who is apparently a Calvinist (if that is possible with SB being a Presbyterian?)  Anyway....hearing about him has given me a mild interest in knowing about his theology.  Now that I'm hearing two sides of the coin in TT, it just seems a little odd.  I'm just not sure I want to spend a whole lot of time trying to sort out the truth about him from the clutter.      David Miller wrote: DAVEH: So where's the truth? Judy posted a pretty compelling argument that was diametrically opposed to DavidM's comments. Which is correct? All you have to do, Dave, is read more history from both sides. What you find is that many people spin the facts however they want to spin it. The article Judy shared is way off the chart in spin against Calvin. It ignores important facts, and spins known facts ascribing motive to Calvin that is unwarranted. For example, yes, Servetus read Calvin's Institutes and gave Calvin a copy of it all marked up with his criticisms. The article tries to spin this fact into Calvin getting personally upset with such and that he was filled with a vile anger and hatred toward Servetus for his criticism. The truth is that Calvin worked and worked to try and help Servetus correct his errors, but Servetus was uncooperative. Servetus challenges Calvin to a debate but then does not show up for his own debate? Come on. Servetus does not engage Calvin, but rather publishes his criticisms without Calvin's response? There is a lot more to the story to consider than personal vindictiveness. Get all the facts for yourself and make up your own mind. Still, we will all approach the subject with certain assumptions. If I had time, I would go through and point out all the falsehoods and the false assumptions in that article that Judy shared. They are readily apparent to me based upon my past reading on the subject, but I don't have a lot of time right now. Read Schaff for yourself, and Foxe's Book of Martyrs. I think they will help provide a more balanced perspective on the issue. Also go to the sources that Schaff references. Peace be with you. David Miller. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.