Re: [TV orNotTV] Why Late Night is in Trouble

[Doug Eastick]

I love the show Episodes.

If anyone wants to borrow my "Betamax" copy of the whole run, send me a
message offline.



On Tue, May 17, 2022 at 4:04 AM 'Dave Sikula' via TVorNotTV <
tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I am reminded of nothing so much as the rant Chris Diamantopoulos's
> "Episodes" character went on that insisted that the only hope network TV
> had was utter chaos: that everything would be live and that there would be
> no regular scheduling; shows could appear any time with any cast and any
> plot elements, up to and including actors getting shot with actual guns on
> camera. "You think any actor is going to turn down a network gig, if the
> cost is only getting shot?" Audiences would tune in if only to not miss
> what was happening.
>
> I don't think we're far from that.
>
> --Dave Sikula
>
> On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 10:03:21 AM UTC-7 PGage wrote:
>
>> It is true that they can not assume that what worked in the past will
>> work now, but I’m not sure that it’s true that what worked in the last will
>> not work now. See, for example, the Primetime procedurals on  CBS, and the
>> two Dick Wolf Nights on NBC. While technology and changing habits have led
>> to a mass exodus among broadcast television viewers, the ones who remain
>> tend to be old, and to still like about TV what they have always liked. And
>> even though there are fewer of them, they still are a sizable and almost
>> captive advertising audience for the right products.
>>
>> What I think is really unlikely is to bet on any programming stunt or
>> gimmick suddenly reversing long term trends and attracting those who have
>> already left back to regular broadcast TV viewing.
>>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Why Late Night is in Trouble

['Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV]

I don't know about universal live-ness, but anything not live would be 
on-demand...B

Dave Sikula, to PGage, May 17th:

> I am reminded of nothing so much as the rant Chris Diamantopoulos's 
> "Episodes" character went on that insisted that the only hope network TV 
> had was utter chaos: that everything would be live and that there would be 
> no regular scheduling; shows could appear any time with any cast and any 
> plot elements, up to and including actors getting shot with actual guns on 
> camera. "You think any actor is going to turn down a network gig, if the 
> cost is only getting shot?" Audiences would tune in if only to not miss 
> what was happening.
>
> I don't think we're far from that.
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Why Late Night is in Trouble

['Dave Sikula' via TVorNotTV]

I am reminded of nothing so much as the rant Chris Diamantopoulos's 
"Episodes" character went on that insisted that the only hope network TV 
had was utter chaos: that everything would be live and that there would be 
no regular scheduling; shows could appear any time with any cast and any 
plot elements, up to and including actors getting shot with actual guns on 
camera. "You think any actor is going to turn down a network gig, if the 
cost is only getting shot?" Audiences would tune in if only to not miss 
what was happening.

I don't think we're far from that.

--Dave Sikula

On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 10:03:21 AM UTC-7 PGage wrote:

> It is true that they can not assume that what worked in the past will work 
> now, but I’m not sure that it’s true that what worked in the last will not 
> work now. See, for example, the Primetime procedurals on  CBS, and the two 
> Dick Wolf Nights on NBC. While technology and changing habits have led to a 
> mass exodus among broadcast television viewers, the ones who remain tend to 
> be old, and to still like about TV what they have always liked. And even 
> though there are fewer of them, they still are a sizable and almost captive 
> advertising audience for the right products.
>
> What I think is really unlikely is to bet on any programming stunt or 
> gimmick suddenly reversing long term trends and attracting those who have 
> already left back to regular broadcast TV viewing.
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Why Late Night is in Trouble

['Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV]

Oh BTW, Stephen is back from his quarantine, so f'rinstance, Shaq's segment 
taking the Questionert ("You are now *known!*") will not be lost to history.

B

Mark Jeffries, engaging PGage and Tom Wolper, May 16th:

> Which seems to include--at least on Colbert--direct-response ads of the 
> type I expect on subchannels, in the first break and with the Comcast 
> "Smart Resume" stopping fast-forwarding when they come up.  If you saw 
> Ronco, K-Tel and Popeil ads on Carson, they were in the local breaks.  Can 
> I expect seeing Joe Namath, George Foreman and Jimmie "JJ Kid Dyno-Mite" 
> Walker in the Colbert breaks pitching Medicare hotlines and Jen Spryka 
> doing a billboard for Emeril's air fryer?
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Why Late Night is in Trouble

[Tom Wolper]

One name that pops up in my head is Andy Cohen. He’s a known name and
already has a following.

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 1:16 PM Kevin M.  wrote:

> While I do not always agree with Jay Leno, one thing he is right about is
> that late night viewership is determined almost entirely by the host. There
> are a handful of guests who cause a spike in the ratings, but find a host
> people not only want to watch but will go out of their way to watch and you
> have a hit late night series. The host doesn’t even have to be a good host.
> Leno couldn’t interview his way out of a paper bag, Letterman was
> frequently gruff,  and Corden is whatever the hell he is, but many people
> like to watch them.
>
> Finding a host that rings all the diversity bells is a noble quest, but if
> people of any race or gender don’t know them or like them, the chances of
> success are slim (not impossible: Conan). Prior to the recent awards show
> silliness, Wil Smith would’ve been a good choice. Dewayne Johnson,
> possibly. The Eilish kids as a duo might appeal to a younger crowd.
>
> On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 10:03 AM PGage  wrote:
>
>> It is true that they can not assume that what worked in the past will
>> work now, but I’m not sure that it’s true that what worked in the last will
>> not work now. See, for example, the Primetime procedurals on  CBS, and the
>> two Dick Wolf Nights on NBC. While technology and changing habits have led
>> to a mass exodus among broadcast television viewers, the ones who remain
>> tend to be old, and to still like about TV what they have always liked. And
>> even though there are fewer of them, they still are a sizable and almost
>> captive advertising audience for the right products.
>>
>> What I think is really unlikely is to bet on any programming stunt or
>> gimmick suddenly reversing long term trends and attracting those who have
>> already left back to regular broadcast TV viewing.
>>
>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 at 8:15 AM Tom Wolper  wrote:
>>
>>> Whatever one thinks of TV execs they have to hit a rapidly moving
>>> target. Using the decisions made 7 years ago, let alone decisions made 30
>>> years ago is a sure recipe for failure. Whatever CBS chooses to do with the
>>> show or the time slot, they should know they can’t replicate the past.
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 14, 2022 at 5:54 PM PGage  wrote:
>>>
 It’s hard for me to take this article seriously. I clicked through the
 links he provided to support the three points he used to set it up, and
 found the following:

 1. The link he used to support claim that Late night talk show ratings
 are falling, an article in the Hollywood reporter, actually said that
 Fallon’s ratings were falling while Colbert’s were basically flat, in an
 environment in which most TV ratings were falling.

 2. The link supporting claim that “Others” are saying the problem with
 Late Night us a Trump obsession is from an article in the college newspaper
 of the University of Wisconsin from almost a year ago. And of course, if
 anything this claim is undermined by the article cited in support of point
 #1 (the show with the biggest Trump obsession has the best ratings, not the
 worst).

 3. The link supporting the claim that “Others” are saying the late
 night format is out of date is from something called *Mud Magazine*, a “pop
 culture hub for Gen-Z.”

 I’m not saying I necessarily disagree with any of these points, but I
 don’t find the support he provides persuasive.

 Well, I don’t agree with #1 as stated. Any think piece starting with
 the premise that any particular part of linear television is experiencing
 ratings decline greater than linear television overall really has to start
 with evidence that those ratings (whether for Late night TV, the Olympics,
 the Oscars, sitcoms, or the NBA playoffs) are in fact worse than some
 reliable measure of television ratings over all. Based on this article That
 basic premise does not seem to be true, late night ratings are not falling
 faster than television ratings over all (though maybe Jimmy Fallon’s are).

 On Thu, 12 May 2022 at 3:37 PM Mark Jeffries 
 wrote:

> A former writer for Fallon turned college professor on why he believes
> late night is in decline, criticizing the overemphasis on the news cycle
> and celebrity worship and defending Lilly Singh and, uh, Greg Gutfeld:
>
>
> https://theconversation.com/what-can-reverse-late-night-tvs-decline-177028?utm_medium=email_campaign=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20May%2011%202022%20-%202287122745_content=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20May%2011%202022%20-%202287122745+CID_867b28d67437a411e29d5c8a5569e7de_source=campaign_monitor_us_term=What%20can%20reverse%20late-night%20TVs%20decline
>
> Discuss.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> 

Re: [TV orNotTV] Why Late Night is in Trouble

[Kevin M.]

While I do not always agree with Jay Leno, one thing he is right about is
that late night viewership is determined almost entirely by the host. There
are a handful of guests who cause a spike in the ratings, but find a host
people not only want to watch but will go out of their way to watch and you
have a hit late night series. The host doesn’t even have to be a good host.
Leno couldn’t interview his way out of a paper bag, Letterman was
frequently gruff,  and Corden is whatever the hell he is, but many people
like to watch them.

Finding a host that rings all the diversity bells is a noble quest, but if
people of any race or gender don’t know them or like them, the chances of
success are slim (not impossible: Conan). Prior to the recent awards show
silliness, Wil Smith would’ve been a good choice. Dewayne Johnson,
possibly. The Eilish kids as a duo might appeal to a younger crowd.

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 10:03 AM PGage  wrote:

> It is true that they can not assume that what worked in the past will work
> now, but I’m not sure that it’s true that what worked in the last will not
> work now. See, for example, the Primetime procedurals on  CBS, and the two
> Dick Wolf Nights on NBC. While technology and changing habits have led to a
> mass exodus among broadcast television viewers, the ones who remain tend to
> be old, and to still like about TV what they have always liked. And even
> though there are fewer of them, they still are a sizable and almost captive
> advertising audience for the right products.
>
> What I think is really unlikely is to bet on any programming stunt or
> gimmick suddenly reversing long term trends and attracting those who have
> already left back to regular broadcast TV viewing.
>
> On Mon, 16 May 2022 at 8:15 AM Tom Wolper  wrote:
>
>> Whatever one thinks of TV execs they have to hit a rapidly moving target.
>> Using the decisions made 7 years ago, let alone decisions made 30 years ago
>> is a sure recipe for failure. Whatever CBS chooses to do with the show or
>> the time slot, they should know they can’t replicate the past.
>>
>> On Sat, May 14, 2022 at 5:54 PM PGage  wrote:
>>
>>> It’s hard for me to take this article seriously. I clicked through the
>>> links he provided to support the three points he used to set it up, and
>>> found the following:
>>>
>>> 1. The link he used to support claim that Late night talk show ratings
>>> are falling, an article in the Hollywood reporter, actually said that
>>> Fallon’s ratings were falling while Colbert’s were basically flat, in an
>>> environment in which most TV ratings were falling.
>>>
>>> 2. The link supporting claim that “Others” are saying the problem with
>>> Late Night us a Trump obsession is from an article in the college newspaper
>>> of the University of Wisconsin from almost a year ago. And of course, if
>>> anything this claim is undermined by the article cited in support of point
>>> #1 (the show with the biggest Trump obsession has the best ratings, not the
>>> worst).
>>>
>>> 3. The link supporting the claim that “Others” are saying the late night
>>> format is out of date is from something called *Mud Magazine*, a “pop
>>> culture hub for Gen-Z.”
>>>
>>> I’m not saying I necessarily disagree with any of these points, but I
>>> don’t find the support he provides persuasive.
>>>
>>> Well, I don’t agree with #1 as stated. Any think piece starting with the
>>> premise that any particular part of linear television is experiencing
>>> ratings decline greater than linear television overall really has to start
>>> with evidence that those ratings (whether for Late night TV, the Olympics,
>>> the Oscars, sitcoms, or the NBA playoffs) are in fact worse than some
>>> reliable measure of television ratings over all. Based on this article That
>>> basic premise does not seem to be true, late night ratings are not falling
>>> faster than television ratings over all (though maybe Jimmy Fallon’s are).
>>>
>>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 at 3:37 PM Mark Jeffries 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 A former writer for Fallon turned college professor on why he believes
 late night is in decline, criticizing the overemphasis on the news cycle
 and celebrity worship and defending Lilly Singh and, uh, Greg Gutfeld:


 https://theconversation.com/what-can-reverse-late-night-tvs-decline-177028?utm_medium=email_campaign=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20May%2011%202022%20-%202287122745_content=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20May%2011%202022%20-%202287122745+CID_867b28d67437a411e29d5c8a5569e7de_source=campaign_monitor_us_term=What%20can%20reverse%20late-night%20TVs%20decline

 Discuss.

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Why Late Night is in Trouble

[Mark Jeffries]

Which seems to include--at least on Colbert--direct-response ads of the
type I expect on subchannels, in the first break and with the Comcast
"Smart Resume" stopping fast-forwarding when they come up.  If you saw
Ronco, K-Tel and Popeil ads on Carson, they were in the local breaks.  Can
I expect seeing Joe Namath, George Foreman and Jimmie "JJ Kid Dyno-Mite"
Walker in the Colbert breaks pitching Medicare hotlines and Jen Spryka
doing a billboard for Emeril's air fryer?

Mark Jeffries
spotligh...@gmail.com


On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 12:03 PM PGage  wrote:

> It is true that they can not assume that what worked in the past will work
> now, but I’m not sure that it’s true that what worked in the last will not
> work now. See, for example, the Primetime procedurals on  CBS, and the two
> Dick Wolf Nights on NBC. While technology and changing habits have led to a
> mass exodus among broadcast television viewers, the ones who remain tend to
> be old, and to still like about TV what they have always liked. And even
> though there are fewer of them, they still are a sizable and almost captive
> advertising audience for the right products.
>
> What I think is really unlikely is to bet on any programming stunt or
> gimmick suddenly reversing long term trends and attracting those who have
> already left back to regular broadcast TV viewing.
>
> On Mon, 16 May 2022 at 8:15 AM Tom Wolper  wrote:
>
>> Whatever one thinks of TV execs they have to hit a rapidly moving target.
>> Using the decisions made 7 years ago, let alone decisions made 30 years ago
>> is a sure recipe for failure. Whatever CBS chooses to do with the show or
>> the time slot, they should know they can’t replicate the past.
>>
>> On Sat, May 14, 2022 at 5:54 PM PGage  wrote:
>>
>>> It’s hard for me to take this article seriously. I clicked through the
>>> links he provided to support the three points he used to set it up, and
>>> found the following:
>>>
>>> 1. The link he used to support claim that Late night talk show ratings
>>> are falling, an article in the Hollywood reporter, actually said that
>>> Fallon’s ratings were falling while Colbert’s were basically flat, in an
>>> environment in which most TV ratings were falling.
>>>
>>> 2. The link supporting claim that “Others” are saying the problem with
>>> Late Night us a Trump obsession is from an article in the college newspaper
>>> of the University of Wisconsin from almost a year ago. And of course, if
>>> anything this claim is undermined by the article cited in support of point
>>> #1 (the show with the biggest Trump obsession has the best ratings, not the
>>> worst).
>>>
>>> 3. The link supporting the claim that “Others” are saying the late night
>>> format is out of date is from something called *Mud Magazine*, a “pop
>>> culture hub for Gen-Z.”
>>>
>>> I’m not saying I necessarily disagree with any of these points, but I
>>> don’t find the support he provides persuasive.
>>>
>>> Well, I don’t agree with #1 as stated. Any think piece starting with the
>>> premise that any particular part of linear television is experiencing
>>> ratings decline greater than linear television overall really has to start
>>> with evidence that those ratings (whether for Late night TV, the Olympics,
>>> the Oscars, sitcoms, or the NBA playoffs) are in fact worse than some
>>> reliable measure of television ratings over all. Based on this article That
>>> basic premise does not seem to be true, late night ratings are not falling
>>> faster than television ratings over all (though maybe Jimmy Fallon’s are).
>>>
>>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 at 3:37 PM Mark Jeffries 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 A former writer for Fallon turned college professor on why he believes
 late night is in decline, criticizing the overemphasis on the news cycle
 and celebrity worship and defending Lilly Singh and, uh, Greg Gutfeld:


 https://theconversation.com/what-can-reverse-late-night-tvs-decline-177028?utm_medium=email_campaign=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20May%2011%202022%20-%202287122745_content=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20May%2011%202022%20-%202287122745+CID_867b28d67437a411e29d5c8a5569e7de_source=campaign_monitor_us_term=What%20can%20reverse%20late-night%20TVs%20decline

 Discuss.

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Why Late Night is in Trouble

[PGage]

It is true that they can not assume that what worked in the past will work
now, but I’m not sure that it’s true that what worked in the last will not
work now. See, for example, the Primetime procedurals on  CBS, and the two
Dick Wolf Nights on NBC. While technology and changing habits have led to a
mass exodus among broadcast television viewers, the ones who remain tend to
be old, and to still like about TV what they have always liked. And even
though there are fewer of them, they still are a sizable and almost captive
advertising audience for the right products.

What I think is really unlikely is to bet on any programming stunt or
gimmick suddenly reversing long term trends and attracting those who have
already left back to regular broadcast TV viewing.

On Mon, 16 May 2022 at 8:15 AM Tom Wolper  wrote:

> Whatever one thinks of TV execs they have to hit a rapidly moving target.
> Using the decisions made 7 years ago, let alone decisions made 30 years ago
> is a sure recipe for failure. Whatever CBS chooses to do with the show or
> the time slot, they should know they can’t replicate the past.
>
> On Sat, May 14, 2022 at 5:54 PM PGage  wrote:
>
>> It’s hard for me to take this article seriously. I clicked through the
>> links he provided to support the three points he used to set it up, and
>> found the following:
>>
>> 1. The link he used to support claim that Late night talk show ratings
>> are falling, an article in the Hollywood reporter, actually said that
>> Fallon’s ratings were falling while Colbert’s were basically flat, in an
>> environment in which most TV ratings were falling.
>>
>> 2. The link supporting claim that “Others” are saying the problem with
>> Late Night us a Trump obsession is from an article in the college newspaper
>> of the University of Wisconsin from almost a year ago. And of course, if
>> anything this claim is undermined by the article cited in support of point
>> #1 (the show with the biggest Trump obsession has the best ratings, not the
>> worst).
>>
>> 3. The link supporting the claim that “Others” are saying the late night
>> format is out of date is from something called *Mud Magazine*, a “pop
>> culture hub for Gen-Z.”
>>
>> I’m not saying I necessarily disagree with any of these points, but I
>> don’t find the support he provides persuasive.
>>
>> Well, I don’t agree with #1 as stated. Any think piece starting with the
>> premise that any particular part of linear television is experiencing
>> ratings decline greater than linear television overall really has to start
>> with evidence that those ratings (whether for Late night TV, the Olympics,
>> the Oscars, sitcoms, or the NBA playoffs) are in fact worse than some
>> reliable measure of television ratings over all. Based on this article That
>> basic premise does not seem to be true, late night ratings are not falling
>> faster than television ratings over all (though maybe Jimmy Fallon’s are).
>>
>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 at 3:37 PM Mark Jeffries 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A former writer for Fallon turned college professor on why he believes
>>> late night is in decline, criticizing the overemphasis on the news cycle
>>> and celebrity worship and defending Lilly Singh and, uh, Greg Gutfeld:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://theconversation.com/what-can-reverse-late-night-tvs-decline-177028?utm_medium=email_campaign=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20May%2011%202022%20-%202287122745_content=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20May%2011%202022%20-%202287122745+CID_867b28d67437a411e29d5c8a5569e7de_source=campaign_monitor_us_term=What%20can%20reverse%20late-night%20TVs%20decline
>>>
>>> Discuss.
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/f7d94ff5-b3c5-4a8f-9a32-121845b006b5n%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
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>>
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>> 
>> .
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Why Late Night is in Trouble

[Kevin M.]

Reminds me of the Rome sequence of “History of the World: Part One.”

“When you die at the Palace, you REALLY die at the Palace.”

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 8:15 AM Tom Wolper  wrote:

> Whatever one thinks of TV execs they have to hit a rapidly moving target.
> Using the decisions made 7 years ago, let alone decisions made 30 years ago
> is a sure recipe for failure. Whatever CBS chooses to do with the show or
> the time slot, they should know they can’t replicate the past.
>
> On Sat, May 14, 2022 at 5:54 PM PGage  wrote:
>
>> It’s hard for me to take this article seriously. I clicked through the
>> links he provided to support the three points he used to set it up, and
>> found the following:
>>
>> 1. The link he used to support claim that Late night talk show ratings
>> are falling, an article in the Hollywood reporter, actually said that
>> Fallon’s ratings were falling while Colbert’s were basically flat, in an
>> environment in which most TV ratings were falling.
>>
>> 2. The link supporting claim that “Others” are saying the problem with
>> Late Night us a Trump obsession is from an article in the college newspaper
>> of the University of Wisconsin from almost a year ago. And of course, if
>> anything this claim is undermined by the article cited in support of point
>> #1 (the show with the biggest Trump obsession has the best ratings, not the
>> worst).
>>
>> 3. The link supporting the claim that “Others” are saying the late night
>> format is out of date is from something called *Mud Magazine*, a “pop
>> culture hub for Gen-Z.”
>>
>> I’m not saying I necessarily disagree with any of these points, but I
>> don’t find the support he provides persuasive.
>>
>> Well, I don’t agree with #1 as stated. Any think piece starting with the
>> premise that any particular part of linear television is experiencing
>> ratings decline greater than linear television overall really has to start
>> with evidence that those ratings (whether for Late night TV, the Olympics,
>> the Oscars, sitcoms, or the NBA playoffs) are in fact worse than some
>> reliable measure of television ratings over all. Based on this article That
>> basic premise does not seem to be true, late night ratings are not falling
>> faster than television ratings over all (though maybe Jimmy Fallon’s are).
>>
>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 at 3:37 PM Mark Jeffries 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A former writer for Fallon turned college professor on why he believes
>>> late night is in decline, criticizing the overemphasis on the news cycle
>>> and celebrity worship and defending Lilly Singh and, uh, Greg Gutfeld:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://theconversation.com/what-can-reverse-late-night-tvs-decline-177028?utm_medium=email_campaign=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20May%2011%202022%20-%202287122745_content=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20May%2011%202022%20-%202287122745+CID_867b28d67437a411e29d5c8a5569e7de_source=campaign_monitor_us_term=What%20can%20reverse%20late-night%20TVs%20decline
>>>
>>> Discuss.
>>>
>>> --
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/f7d94ff5-b3c5-4a8f-9a32-121845b006b5n%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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>> 
>> .
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Re: [TV orNotTV] Why Late Night is in Trouble

[Tom Wolper]

Whatever one thinks of TV execs they have to hit a rapidly moving target.
Using the decisions made 7 years ago, let alone decisions made 30 years ago
is a sure recipe for failure. Whatever CBS chooses to do with the show or
the time slot, they should know they can’t replicate the past.

On Sat, May 14, 2022 at 5:54 PM PGage  wrote:

> It’s hard for me to take this article seriously. I clicked through the
> links he provided to support the three points he used to set it up, and
> found the following:
>
> 1. The link he used to support claim that Late night talk show ratings are
> falling, an article in the Hollywood reporter, actually said that Fallon’s
> ratings were falling while Colbert’s were basically flat, in an environment
> in which most TV ratings were falling.
>
> 2. The link supporting claim that “Others” are saying the problem with
> Late Night us a Trump obsession is from an article in the college newspaper
> of the University of Wisconsin from almost a year ago. And of course, if
> anything this claim is undermined by the article cited in support of point
> #1 (the show with the biggest Trump obsession has the best ratings, not the
> worst).
>
> 3. The link supporting the claim that “Others” are saying the late night
> format is out of date is from something called *Mud Magazine*, a “pop
> culture hub for Gen-Z.”
>
> I’m not saying I necessarily disagree with any of these points, but I
> don’t find the support he provides persuasive.
>
> Well, I don’t agree with #1 as stated. Any think piece starting with the
> premise that any particular part of linear television is experiencing
> ratings decline greater than linear television overall really has to start
> with evidence that those ratings (whether for Late night TV, the Olympics,
> the Oscars, sitcoms, or the NBA playoffs) are in fact worse than some
> reliable measure of television ratings over all. Based on this article That
> basic premise does not seem to be true, late night ratings are not falling
> faster than television ratings over all (though maybe Jimmy Fallon’s are).
>
> On Thu, 12 May 2022 at 3:37 PM Mark Jeffries 
> wrote:
>
>> A former writer for Fallon turned college professor on why he believes
>> late night is in decline, criticizing the overemphasis on the news cycle
>> and celebrity worship and defending Lilly Singh and, uh, Greg Gutfeld:
>>
>>
>> https://theconversation.com/what-can-reverse-late-night-tvs-decline-177028?utm_medium=email_campaign=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20May%2011%202022%20-%202287122745_content=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20May%2011%202022%20-%202287122745+CID_867b28d67437a411e29d5c8a5569e7de_source=campaign_monitor_us_term=What%20can%20reverse%20late-night%20TVs%20decline
>>
>> Discuss.
>>
>> --
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>> "TVorNotTV" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/f7d94ff5-b3c5-4a8f-9a32-121845b006b5n%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Why Late Night is in Trouble

[PGage]

It’s hard for me to take this article seriously. I clicked through the
links he provided to support the three points he used to set it up, and
found the following:

1. The link he used to support claim that Late night talk show ratings are
falling, an article in the Hollywood reporter, actually said that Fallon’s
ratings were falling while Colbert’s were basically flat, in an environment
in which most TV ratings were falling.

2. The link supporting claim that “Others” are saying the problem with Late
Night us a Trump obsession is from an article in the college newspaper of
the University of Wisconsin from almost a year ago. And of course, if
anything this claim is undermined by the article cited in support of point
#1 (the show with the biggest Trump obsession has the best ratings, not the
worst).

3. The link supporting the claim that “Others” are saying the late night
format is out of date is from something called *Mud Magazine*, a “pop
culture hub for Gen-Z.”

I’m not saying I necessarily disagree with any of these points, but I don’t
find the support he provides persuasive.

Well, I don’t agree with #1 as stated. Any think piece starting with the
premise that any particular part of linear television is experiencing
ratings decline greater than linear television overall really has to start
with evidence that those ratings (whether for Late night TV, the Olympics,
the Oscars, sitcoms, or the NBA playoffs) are in fact worse than some
reliable measure of television ratings over all. Based on this article That
basic premise does not seem to be true, late night ratings are not falling
faster than television ratings over all (though maybe Jimmy Fallon’s are).

On Thu, 12 May 2022 at 3:37 PM Mark Jeffries  wrote:

> A former writer for Fallon turned college professor on why he believes
> late night is in decline, criticizing the overemphasis on the news cycle
> and celebrity worship and defending Lilly Singh and, uh, Greg Gutfeld:
>
>
> https://theconversation.com/what-can-reverse-late-night-tvs-decline-177028?utm_medium=email_campaign=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20May%2011%202022%20-%202287122745_content=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20May%2011%202022%20-%202287122745+CID_867b28d67437a411e29d5c8a5569e7de_source=campaign_monitor_us_term=What%20can%20reverse%20late-night%20TVs%20decline
>
> Discuss.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "TVorNotTV" group.
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> email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
> .
>
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[TV orNotTV] Why Late Night is in Trouble

[Mark Jeffries]

A former writer for Fallon turned college professor on why he believes late 
night is in decline, criticizing the overemphasis on the news cycle and 
celebrity worship and defending Lilly Singh and, uh, Greg Gutfeld:

https://theconversation.com/what-can-reverse-late-night-tvs-decline-177028?utm_medium=email_campaign=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20May%2011%202022%20-%202287122745_content=Latest%20from%20The%20Conversation%20for%20May%2011%202022%20-%202287122745+CID_867b28d67437a411e29d5c8a5569e7de_source=campaign_monitor_us_term=What%20can%20reverse%20late-night%20TVs%20decline

Discuss.

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