[twitter-dev]

[Jeremy Darling]

http://3w5w52se4mj.nruywgakip.com

[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

[Jeremy Darling]

You completely missed the point of my post.  It is a simple call to ethical
analysis of the situation.  Deeming different situations with similar
outcomes (mass following or unwanted solicitation) I asked for simple
justification of the community at large.  In fact had I left out Deans name
it could have been any generic email to the group.

As for your TOS statement, I never said a company could not do so, in fact I
said they could.  But, the only legal recourse to a violation of this type
is suspension of accounts at this level.  If after account suspension Dean
(or anyone else) created new accounts and utilized those to perform the same
action then Twitter (or any entity) could then prove malice.

For naming, go back to your law books (I know I did), his name implies the
service that his product provides (IE: it answers the door when an
interesting party comes by).  In fact, twitter is doing further damage to
this argument by not going after those "good guys" on their list (a
trademark must be enforced in ALL cases or it shall be revoked).  Twitter
did not pursue revocation of the name in proper fashion with accordance to
the law (they told him to hand it over and didn't offer compensation).  They
also did not provide the proper statue of 30 days prior written notice (note
that in the US email communication is not considered valid notice and thus
is why if you win a contest they have to send you a written notice you have
to send back as well).

Now, can we get back to my 4 points/questions with your answers?  What of
the 4 do you feel would be ethical and why, I'm simply curious as to the
community reaction?

 - Jeremy

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:30 PM, David Fisher  wrote:

>
> Jeremy,
>
> The problem with your logic is that you don't feel that a company can
> set a ToS for how they want users to use their service. They can.
>
> There are legitimate and non-legitimate uses of Twitter. This guy
> screwed up, and overreacted. Case closed. Twitter's got him on the
> naming issue and the ToS issue (which they can change any time they
> like).

[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

[Jeremy Darling]

Warning, atypical post to follow: After quite a while of watching this
conversation, and some thought into the "problem", I wonder if the following
scenarios are held in the same view:

1) Amy W (from HR Block you all know who I'm talking about) started using
Twitter to gain insight into her companies standings both with positive and
negative effects.  We (the marketing community at least) hailed her as a
visionary and placed her on a totem pole.  Admittedly, initially, this was
done by hand but if you think it hasn't been automated your nuts!  Yet, I
don't see anyone barking out about HR Block and other companies who are
using Twitter in this way.

2) Marketing companies ARE scraping twitter feeds for information on buyers
for both positive and negative feedback.  In some cases this leads to an
automated following and in some cases response workflow kickoff.  This
feedback along with data expansion techniques (getting your email and other
info about you from minimal starting points) are then utilized to send
marketing materials via email and/or direct mail.  These same companies are
again being held on high as visionaries of the field.

3) If 1 and 2 are ok, then why shouldn't people be able to use an
applicaiton to identify and follow potential customers/consumers?

4) If Dean pursued building an "auto-blacklister" application that was given
away for free and allowed twitter users to subscribe to a feed of "spammers"
that would automatically be blacklisted when followed would that neutralize
your views of him)?  If it would, then why hasn't anyone done this already
or are we lazier than the affectors?

Applications like Dean's will ALWAYS exist for twitter (and other services;
Craigs List, Ebay, MySpace, Email, etc) its a fact of life and there are
better ways of dealing with them (see #4) than legal representation.  In
fact the code for something like Deans app is trivial (I'd post an example
but too many can be easily found with Code Searches).

Yes, at times, legal representation is a necessity but our sociciety tends
to think that the law is always on our (the US in general) side and not the
"bad guys" side.  Legal representation should be held for use only when a
common ground can not be reached through other means.  Truth be told, the
law is a very strict set of rules that harbors neither side and thats the
way it should be.

Let the angered responses commence.

 - Jeremy Darling

PS: The app in #4 could easily be setup so that twitter users could mark an
account as a possible spammer, once the account reaches a known threashold
that account could then be auto-blocked.  Also, when someone purchases the
"auto-follower" software in question that persons ID could automatically be
added with a higher count to the list, thus lowering the threashold for that
user.

[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

[Jeremy Darling]

Actually, I recall it perfectly well.  MS threatened action against Mike Roe
(a Canadian student as I recall) for his development company.  The case was
settled OUT OF COURT, with MS basically having to purchase his domain.  The
same could be applied to this product where Twitter can not demand the URL
but they can wait for it to expire and snag it or offer to buy out the
owner.

On the "point" about aggressively pursuing because they have to.  That's a
complete and total cop-out, if that were the case then Twitter would be
going after ALL offenders and not the select "bad guys", if someone gives
twitter a warm fuzzy they view it as ok.  According to your statement (and I
reviewed the laws a while back on trademarks but will go look again) they
can loose their trademark for this action alone.

 - Jeremy

PS: I'm still not a lawyer, I still hate the product, but I still hate the
thought more.  Of course, their C&D order is little more than a notice to
disconnect :)

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:36 AM, Andrew Badera  wrote:

>
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Jeremy
> Darling wrote:
> > Funny thing about trademarking a name and trying to utilize that
> trademark
> > against a URL, can't be done.  If so, MicroSoft would have nailed people
> > left and right for infringement upon IE (can we say IE7.com and IE8.com)
> as
> > well as several other websites that utilize trademarked MS product names
> > LOL.  Several other companies have tried this as well and failed.
> >
> > As for Twitter TOS and developer rights.  Nope, can't sue for voilation
> of a
> > TOS on a public API either.  You can suspend "suspect activities" and
> revoke
> > developer/company rights but you can't actually file suite on a TOS
> > violation of this type.  Lots of statuatory presidence on the subject.
> >
> > On point 3, 80% rule along with the fact that you have clearly labeled in
> > valid font size the non-affiliation with Twitter again negates this point
> in
> > most cases.
> >
> > Actually, about the only thing they could get you for would be
> > Slander/Liable if you were spreading bad publicity about the company that
> > was un-true.  In that case, they could get you for everything your worth
> > LOL.  Then again, being a public entity they would fall under the same
> laws
> > as the movie stars and other public figures and would basically have to
> suck
> > it up in the end.
> >
> >  - Jeremy
> >
>
> Apparently you fail to recall the "MikeRoweSoft.com" case.
>
> Twitter can most definitely enforce their trademark here.
>
> ∞ Andy Badera
> ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private
> ∞ Google me:
> http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)<http://www.google.com/search?q=%28andrew+badera%29+OR+%28andy+badera%29>
>

[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

[Jeremy Darling]

I really really want to see them backup the tweet trademark.  All birds are
now being sued by twitter, they can no longer say; tweet tweet LOL.

Seems lil twitter grew up and found lawyers.  While I don't agree or like
the product that Dean sells, I dis-agree more with the misuse of legal
representation by a corporation even more.  I remember when MS started this
everyone threw stones (and courts threw it out), now twitter starts it and
its OK!?

I warn developers to watch their backs, your little cheezy app that uses
twitter may bite you in the arse.

Of course, I don't see twitter going after the advertising/marketing
companies utilizing the API and hitting the service just as many times to
mine for data or to use what they mine to target sales.  That seems to be a
complete and total ethical use of the service, course a few $$ thrown the
right direction always does sway a corporations view of grey.

 - Jeremy

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:13 PM, jim.renkel  wrote:

>
> I guess I should have pointed out that my tongue was firmly planted in
> my check when I wrote my previous post. My bad! :-(
>
> Dean: I don't mean to make light of your particular situation.
> Sometimes I just can't not point out absurdities, which the logic I
> presented clearly is.
>
> What I was trying to do, perhaps not too well, is point out that the
> API TOS may need to be revised to say that developers may use
> twitter's trademarks, but only in "approved" ways.
>
> BTW, twitter is trademarking "tweet" as well as "twitter". You have
> been warned! :-)
>
> Jim
>
>

[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

[Jeremy Darling]

Actually, what they say is "If, however, you do not comply with these
requests, Twitter will be forced to consider suspending your Twitter
accounts and take such steps as it deems necessary to protect its
intellectual property rights".

In short, we are asking you to stop selling your product and give us the
name (btw: they can't demand you give them the name, they can't even force
you to give them the name, they can offer to buy it though at fair "trade
value").

As I said before, there are LOTS of legal presidencies on this type of
action and what can and can't be done.  In no manor do they suggest that
they will or are going to sue you if you don't comply.  They do say they
will suspend your accounts (acceptable).  They could suspend any users
suspect of using your product (actually, easily enough).  Sue you, doubt it.

If you don't want to stop selling, don't want to hand it over carte blanche,
or are just plain willing to stand against them, then talk to a lawyer.  One
other note, not sure when you ACTUALLY received the letter, but in the US 30
days written notice is required.  According to the letter dates given they
have provided only 12.

PS: I'm no lawyer, but I've been around the block a few times and seen this
"letter of action" many times before (from both ends).  The only answers are
"Get a lawyer" or "Give up".  Its your choice.

 - Jeremy

PPS: My favorite URL that twitter has yet to do anything against (that I
know of) tweetshit.com (parked at godaddy LOL and not mine)

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Dean Collins  wrote:

>  It’s not that simple – if you read the letter they are telling me I have
> to stop selling the software entirely.
>
>  
> www.MyTwitterButler.com/I’m_Being_Sued
>

[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!

[Jeremy Darling]

Funny thing about trademarking a name and trying to utilize that trademark
against a URL, can't be done.  If so, MicroSoft would have nailed people
left and right for infringement upon IE (can we say IE7.com and IE8.com) as
well as several other websites that utilize trademarked MS product names
LOL.  Several other companies have tried this as well and failed.

As for Twitter TOS and developer rights.  Nope, can't sue for voilation of a
TOS on a public API either.  You can suspend "suspect activities" and revoke
developer/company rights but you can't actually file suite on a TOS
violation of this type.  Lots of statuatory presidence on the subject.

On point 3, 80% rule along with the fact that you have clearly labeled in
valid font size the non-affiliation with Twitter again negates this point in
most cases.

Actually, about the only thing they could get you for would be
Slander/Liable if you were spreading bad publicity about the company that
was un-true.  In that case, they could get you for everything your worth
LOL.  Then again, being a public entity they would fall under the same laws
as the movie stars and other public figures and would basically have to suck
it up in the end.

 - Jeremy

Re: Help! Did something change with the API?

[Jeremy Darling]

Try switching out to MOSSO instead of MediaTemple.  About the same price,
better customer service, and its on the cloud instead of a grid system.  We
have been using them for a while now and are quite happy.  In fact I'm busy
moving all of our clients from MT over to MOSSO.  With all the problems MT
has been having I wouldn't be surprised if its on their end and not on
Twitters end.

 Jeremy

On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Jay  wrote:

>
> Hi Alexa,
> I have the same problem with Dusty. I am also using Media Temple
> (mediatemple.net). I think the IP address is 72.47.224.142.
> I try " curl http://twitter.com";, there is no response, but ping
> works.
>
> Are all mt users blocked by twitter.com?
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 11, 5:09 pm, Alex Payne  wrote:
> > Matt will be conctacting you off-list. For future reference if others
> > run into this issue:
> http://apiwiki.twitter.com/FAQ#IsmyIPbannedorblacklisted
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 13:45, DustyReagan 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Oh. I tested the API manually from home. Just typed the address in my
> > > browser.
> >
> > > On Feb 11, 3:32 pm, Matt Sanford  wrote:
> > >> Hi Dusty,
> >
> > >>  The timeout error sounds suspiciously like a network problem and
> > >> not a rate limit issue. When you say you tested the API manually, did
> > >> you do it from your servers? Also, if you can let me know the IP
> > >> address I can check if it is blocked for some reason.
> >
> > >> Thanks;
> > >>— Matt Sanford
> >
> > >> On Feb 11, 2009, at 01:29 PM, DustyReagan wrote:
> >
> > >> > PS. I'm using Media Temple to server my sites. Could the IP Address
> be
> > >> > blocked or something?
> >
> > >> > On Feb 11, 3:27 pm, DustyReagan  wrote:
> > >> >> Hi,
> >
> > >> >> I have 2 appshttp://FriendOrFollow.com(Ihaven'tchanged the code on
> > >> >> this site in weeks) andhttp://FeaturedUsers.com(usestheZend
> > >> >> Framework to access Twitter). Both of these sites are using the
> same
> > >> >> authentication and are giving me the error "Unable to Connect to
> > >> >> tcp://twitter.com:80. Error #110: Connection timed out."
> >
> > >> >> I've been checking my rate limit status quite a bit, and it doesn't
> > >> >> seem to shift below 20k for some unknown reason. My rate limit
> right
> > >> >> now is 19998 because I manually hit "http://twitter.com/statuses/
> > >> >> followers.xml" twice, just to see if the API was working.
> >
> > >> >> Did I miss a vital update to the API or something? What could be
> > >> >> happening, that my apps are broken, but I can still manually hit
> the
> > >> >> API?
> >
> > >> >> Thanks!
> >
> > >> >> Dusty
> >
> > --
> > Alex Payne - API Lead, Twitter, Inc.http://twitter.com/al3x
>

Re: IP ranges from The Planet will be blocked

[Jeremy Darling]

If you like Rackspace, and don't need direct server access I strong
recommend their sister company MOSSO as well (http://www.mosso.com/).  We
recently moved over to them to get cloud hosting and with over 60 sites have
never had a better experience.  I can give a few down sides to MOSSO that
Rackspace "fixes" but this is simply due to the access levels you have at
Rackspace over MOSSO (IE: You can't install ffMpeg on a MOSSO server).

 - Jeremy

On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 8:26 AM, mservice  wrote:

>
> If you are worried about losing your twitter capability at The Planet,
> then you should consider moving over to Rackspace. We moved all of our
> servers and clients servers (in excess of 50 servers) to Rackspace and
> have been using them since 2003 and always get great support -
> "fanatical support". Their account teams and their solution partners
> make the migration process simple and always go above and beyond. You
> won't have to worry about losing your Twitter capabilities again.
>
> On Jan 6, 1:52 pm, "Alex Payne"  wrote:
> > I've put our operations staff in touch with someone from The Planet.
> > We'll see what happens!
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 08:35, KHazard  wrote:
> >
> > > After coming across this thread, I've been investigating the abuse
> > > reports on The Planet's side. We located a complaint sent yesterday
> > > but were unable to locate any other complaints from the address
> > > sending the complaint or any other twitter.com email ... The complaint
> > > was responded to with a thorough, non-canned response requesting
> > > evidence and we haven't had any additional responses to investigate
> > > any further. If you have a chance, can you follow up with the abuse
> > > deparment's response to your initial report?
> >
> > > On Jan 6, 10:13 am, zbowling  wrote:
> > >> Is block at a routing level that you or is it going to be an API
> > >> level? What I'm wondering is if read only access to my updates will
> > >> still work. I have features of my various blogs that update to twitter
> > >> but more importantly they show my twitter status.
> >
> > >> Also a few of my development tools I've written for Twitter I host at
> > >> The Planet.
> >
> > >> I'm not really setup to move at the moment. Been with The Planet for 4
> > >> years (my servers up times is are at 2.5 years now).
> >
> > >> The only problem I ever have is that someone outright blocks the IP
> > >> range. The Planet gives benefit of the doubt to its customers usually
> > >> and that is because of their uptime guarantee policy because if they
> > >> pull everything that has an abuse claim and it turns out to false (and
> > >> in many cases hard to prove) then they would have to pay for the
> > >> downtime. A lot of customers are hosting their own shared or VPS
> > >> hosting solutions at The Planet, so many times the violators are
> > >> customers of customers so it takes time to trickle down.
> >
> > >> Before the EV1 and The Planet merger (to create the new "The Planet"),
> > >> I was with the old The Planet. In that system, the second there was an
> > >> abuse claim, I got an email and their support engineer called me. That
> > >> system is still in place but they no longer call, they just email
> > >> apparently (but its been years since I got an abuse claim). You have a
> > >> few days before they take action. In fully managed servers, they may
> > >> login and try to resolve it if you allow them and post change of
> > >> management procedures.
> >
> > >> I'm curious though. The rate of issues maybe directly correlated to
> > >> the size of The Planet. They have over 8 data centers in Houston and
> > >> Dallas (I've visited 3 of them here in Dallas when I used to have a
> > >> private rack). I would estimate they have well in excess of 200,000
> > >> servers guessing from the size of the data centers I seen. They pretty
> > >> much own 2 floors at the Infomart here in Dallas (
> http://www.infomartusa.com) and when they grew out of that, they built a
> huge
> > >> build across the street.
> >
> > >> I don't know. A single customer like me doesn't have a lot of weight
> > >> to push an organization like this and I don't want my access to
> > >> Twitter to get yanked.
> >
> > >> Can you whitelist my range? 70.86.83.50-70.86.83.63
> >
> > >> Thanks
> > >> Zac Bowlinghttp://zbowling.com/
> >
> > >> On Jan 5, 6:17 pm, "Alex Payne"  wrote:
> >
> > >> > Unfortunately, no, not until we hear back from The Planet.
> >
> > >> > On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 14:21, zbowling  wrote:
> >
> > >> > > NOOO... :-)
> >
> > >> > > My 3 servers are at The Planet.  They are the worlds largest
> managed
> > >> > > hosting provider so its a significant chunk of the internet so I'm
> > >> > > sure there will be an outcry.
> >
> > >> > > Can you whitelist my range?
> > >> > > 70.86.83.50-70.86.83.63
> >
> > >> > > Zac Bowling
> > >> > >http://zbowling.com/
> >
> > >> > > On Jan 5, 4:05 pm, "Alex Payne"  wrote:
> > >> > >> Our operations team has i