Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching todayFriday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
-Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Baker Hughes Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:09 PM To: 'U2 Users List' Cc: 'bo...@u2ug.net'; betterandbet...@u2ug.net Subject: Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching todayFriday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions Thank you everyone for the intensely helpful insights offered so far in this thread regarding the BB rollout. Let me just say up front that I will take responsibility for an inadequate QA process on this rollout. I thought (wrongly) that we had resolved any browser compatibility issues we had, but we should have done more testing. We are working now to get the BB application into a mode that is compatible with a wide range of browsers. We will do better at testing each one, and even different versions. (Please email me if you're willing to help QA.) I can't express how thankful I am to have worked with a great group of volunteers to get us to this point. This launch (albeit a bit frustrating thus far) has been the [partial] culmination of the vision of several people, as I said in the announcement. Hey Baker, Sign me up for some QA checks. You can drop an e-mail to me @work or @home with the details. I've got access to a bunch of different browsers. The only condition is that there can't be a tight deadline schedule for QA. I'm sure all of the volunteers work on things as they can and I'm no different. I will have to devote blocks of free time, which may disappear in the near future, in order to fully test things. We are not done, and you will have a BB application that you can enjoy, and point to as a good example of multi-value technology. That is still one of the primary goals of this project, and we thank you for holding us to a high standard. There have been a wide range of emotions expressed in this thread. What many don't know is the range of emotions and struggles that the BB team has experienced in the 2 or 3 years since inception. Because of the long fight to get to this point, the BB group made the decision to go ahead with the launch, although we knew there was more work to be done to improve the application. It has been a long wait and we felt the most positive thing was to get the application available to the users. We didn't anticipate the browser compatibility issues, but we did expect more suggestions on the application itself. I still believe this was the right decision, to go ahead and launch. I understand the position and desire to provide (something). However, you don't open a new pub and only have canned beer in the house because that's the easiest to obtain. I think the audience here will be a lot more forgiving, though, than a horde of thirsty and tired people. The net effect of the discussion about the BB app is positive, because we have actionable items as a result. This has also, I hope, pointed up the need for more involvement from other users. 3 have already volunteered to join BB. We could use more, and other work groups on the U2UG could use more. If I had the spare time to devote to development I would, but I'll be spread thin already with QA. I also am working on other projects. Some of them are GPL and some aren't. I also try to write articles for Spectrum, but even that is hard to fit into my free time. I want to thank each of you for the [at times lengthy and heated] posts on the thread. I esteem each of you and consider many of you my seniors. Your passion for the technology is in large part what is fueling the success we are experiencing in the MV sector. Don't change. Thanks for your patience as we shepherd this user group application to a satisfying conclusion. We are still chasing after the technology train that left over 2 hours ago. There has been some advancement, but in general this industry is still behind as usual. Being a visionary is too risky for a lot of companies, so technology is adopted after it has proven to be stable in the rest of the IT world. That provides a stable foundation for critical applications, but it also makes the applications look archaic. I hope that this project is a beginning step to the outcome many of us have wanted in the general industry. A common voice that says, we have to have this because we need to move forward now, not in 5 years when the accountants deem it a returnable investment. I'm still interested in the developer's society, BTW, but I just don't have enough time to run it. If anyone wants the MVDC domain name I'll gladly transfer it for a non-profit setup similar to this. Hope this helps, -Baker Hughes U2UG Board member (at large) BB Workgroup member Regards, Glen Batchelor IT Director All-Spec Industries phone: (910) 332-0424 fax: (910) 763-5664 E-mail: webmas...@all-spec.com Web: http://www.all-spec.com Blog: http
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching todayFriday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
You are now signed up for the BB QA effort. Thanks Glen. You will begin receiving emails from Betterandbetter, but only so you're in the loop on what's going on. I know you're not signing up for the meetings on a regular basis (but you're always welcome). Hey Baker, Sign me up for some QA checks. You can drop an e-mail to me @work or @home with the details. I've got access to a bunch of different browsers. The only condition is that there can't be a tight deadline schedule for QA. I'm sure all of the volunteers work on things as they can and I'm no different. I will have to devote blocks of free time, which may disappear in the near future, in order to fully test things. Funny thing I've noticed about most everyone that's significantly involved in U2UG (or any of the other various boards I work on) most everyone is pretty busy thanks for being willing to add one more skillet to your stove. The surprising thing is that some pretty good things turnout in the end. -Baker This communication, its contents and any file attachments transmitted with it are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential proprietary information. Access by any other party without the express written permission of the sender is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this communication in error you may not copy, distribute or use the contents, attachments or information in any way. Please destroy it and contact the sender. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching todayFriday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
Hey -- Is this your way of volunteering to help? Sweet! Drop Baker your information so we can get you set up! The project, being 100% volunteer, has been through LOTS of hands. If you'd like to help, you can then criticize the heck out of it. And if you don't want to help, then let your issues be known WITHOUT editorial. Is that so much to ask? There are probably LOTS of implementation issues on getting this out the door -- This is a VOLUNTEER project -- the work was started in Australia, loose ends as found updated from the U.S. on a server based in Europe - And we're on a machine that is 'under-licensed' for the onslaught of people curious to see what's behind the flap once it was tossed out there - there really wasn't a way to do a 'follow the sun' release announcement to limit the risk to running out of seats on a machine that will normally have 3 people a day touch it! I'm guessing many of the issues being seen are from too many people online at once. There WILL be issues for the first few weeks/months. Sorry about reality being such a bitch... REMEMBER -- This is volunteer work being done to make the world a better place for everyone... Cut some slack for those people so they have incentive to keep working on it. Or at least man up (person up?) enough to post your name if you're going to post a bitch! I'm not part of this project directly, but it really irks me when people who won't even sign their name criticize things they were 'too busy' (lazy?) to help with. This is like voting -- either be part of the process or shut the heck up! They need the feedback on what is not working correctly so it can be fixed. The editorials... Not so much. If that steps on any toes, I'm equally as sorry as I'm sure this poster was. ;-) And that is my two cents. Returning you now to your regularly scheduled non-flame-related list... And really folks -- give it a week or two to settle down. Send any 'found issues' or 'connection problems' to the group so they can be reviewed -- if possible, include the time (and your TimeZone!) and your browser used (along with version). Hopefully with the data they can find out if the issue is 'seats' (and then perhaps can get IBM to donate more!) or a particular browser is having issues that needs particular review. I can promise you no one tested this with Chrome or Safari -- no one in the volunteer groups uses those! So again, if you want to vollunteer to 'beta test' your favorite flavor of browser, PLEASE let Baker know -- they can always use more help. Without editorial. David W. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of u2ug Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 11:02 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching todayFriday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions Having worked with asp.net from inception, I can say that this type of thinking is absolutely bogus. If things only work in IE, it has nothing to do with it being a .asp, .aspx , ASP.NET , pick your platform application. It is a simply matter of lazy/uninformed design/implementation. My guess is it was written to work only in IE by virtue of it being 'written' using 100% visual studio dragdrop and never tested in any other browsers at any point to ensure that it was in fact cross browser compliant - this is a developer issue NOT a development platform issue. I hate to say it, but it really bad to have such a site advertised as the mv world's 'Better Better' web app, as it just reinforces the kiddie/dinosaur/non-professional impressions that are a constant hindrance. Sorry if that treads on any toes, but this is an extremely poor example of a professional web app. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Better and Better Application - Launching todayFriday 8/21/09 -- Browser instructions
David Wolverton wrote: Hey -- Is this your way of volunteering to help? Sweet! Drop Baker your information so we can get you set up! The project, being 100% volunteer, has been through LOTS of hands. If you'd like to help, you can then criticize the heck out of it. And if you don't want to help, then let your issues be known WITHOUT editorial. Is that so much to ask? There are probably LOTS of implementation issues on getting this out the door -- This is a VOLUNTEER project -- the work was started in Australia, loose ends as found updated from the U.S. on a server based in Europe - And we're on a machine that is 'under-licensed' for the onslaught of people curious to see what's behind the flap once it was tossed out there - there really wasn't a way to do a 'follow the sun' release announcement to limit the risk to running out of seats on a machine that will normally have 3 people a day touch it! I'm guessing many of the issues being seen are from too many people online at once. There WILL be issues for the first few weeks/months. Sorry about reality being such a bitch... REMEMBER -- This is volunteer work being done to make the world a better place for everyone... Cut some slack for those people so they have incentive to keep working on it. Volunteer projects can be rolled out with better browser support than currently demonstrated. The problem with relying on a specific browser's features is the fact that you end up building an app with lots of mods later that can become troublesome to debug and fix when the mods start affecting each other. Rushing a project to fruition solely based on IE's features is not a great way to demonstrate any public web app IMO. I have to agree with the poster's comments on that fact, but I also don't think it's proper to point fingers and name development methods if there are no facts to reference. They need the feedback on what is not working correctly so it can be fixed. The editorials... Not so much. Relying solely on IE's non-W3C features is the first bug. If this is an intranet app, then use whatever you want. If this is to be a public bug reporting tool then perhaps the initial approach is not the best one. And really folks -- give it a week or two to settle down. Send any 'found issues' or 'connection problems' to the group so they can be reviewed -- if possible, include the time (and your TimeZone!) and your browser used (along with version). Hopefully with the data they can find out if the issue is 'seats' (and then perhaps can get IBM to donate more!) or a particular browser is having issues that needs particular review. I can promise you no one tested this with Chrome or Safari -- no one in the volunteer groups uses those! So again, if you want to vollunteer to 'beta test' your favorite flavor of browser, PLEASE let Baker know -- they can always use more help. Without editorial. David W. The problem isn't the connection or the seats. It's the error reporting and the fact that you can't tell that you have to have IE to load the home page. Here's the URL I get redirected to: http://212.241.202.162:8080/db/errDisplay.asp?code=1011er=ERROR:%20EXP01%20MS%20Internet%20Explorer%206.0%20or%20later%20is%20required%20to%20use%20DesignBais.%20%20Please%20download%20IE6%20or%20later%20and%20try%20again. The page itself just says: Error Report An error occured in this application. Please contact your system administrator or your software vendor to report this problem. [Try Again] Why isn't the real error (in the URL) on the page itself? That would probably help some. GlenB ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
