RE: UV Crash on W2K3

[Sara Burns]

I raised a case with IBM when I tracked down our crash to a file not
converting properly when we moved from AIX to W2K3.  This file had a
trigger, which we had removed, but even so it did not convert completely.
The result was an unpredictable crash of the session which took a long time
to track down.
 
I am advised by IBM support that currently there is not a way to move
UniVerse files, with Triggers, to another Machine Class as fnuxi does not
support SQL tables.  They do not regard this as being a bug.
 
The application of a Trigger to a standard UniVerse file turns this into a
pseudo SQL Table with a SICA block within the file's header, to store the
trigger information.  The CREATE/DROP TRIGGER commands are updating the
uv/SQL/CATALOG/UV_TABLES and UV_USERS files.
 
They have provided me with a workaround to clear the sica pointer from the
file header, which will allow me to make the changes when moving between
machine classes.
 
I am going to request an enhancement to make this available to other users
without them needing to write additional hacks to get around this situation.
 
This is the second time we have had to move between machine classes within 3
years.  It happens - we need to be able to handle it simply without the
aggravation it has caused us.
 
At the very minimum IBM need to cover this in their documentation.  If they
have I didn't find it.
 
UniVerse 10.1 on Windows 2003
 
Sara Burns
 
Sara Burns (SEB) 
Development Team Leader

Public Trust 
Phone: +64 (04) 474-3841 (DDI) 

Mobile: 027 457 5974
<  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Information contained in this communication is confidential. If you are not
the intended recipient the information should not be used, disclosed, copied
or commercialised. The information is not necessarily the views nor the
official communication of Public Trust. No guarantee or representation is
made that the communication is free of errors, virus or interference.

 
-- 
u2-users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users

RE: UV Crash on W2K3

[Andrew Mack]

Sara,

Did you try a RESIZE on the file? And if so, what was the result?

Andrew Mack
Deputy Sys Admin
NZDF HRMIS
04 2371 914


From: Sara Burns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: U2 Users Discussion List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: UV Crash on W2K3
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:23:10 +1200
After extensive effort, creating an example to send to IBM we believe we
have found the problem.
One of our files had a trigger.  Due to this the big/little endian
conversion, using CONVERT.FORMAT did not seem to completely work.  However
this was not obvious.  We thought we had reconverted all files with
triggers, but maybe we missed this one.
The following commands worked without obvious problems.

uvbackup
COUNT BAD.FILE
CT BAD.FILE *
LIST BAD.FILE
SORT BAD.FILE
However FILE.STAT BAD.FILE failed with a message, but did not terminate the
session.
uvfixfile did not appear to do anything.  No error, just nothing.

ACCOUNT.FILE.STATS worked without obvious error but the output in STAT.FILE
showed incomplete information.
The result of this was that basic programs failed intermittently which made
this very, very difficult to track down.
I will be raising this with IBM as I believe it is a bug.

Sara Burns (SEB)
Development Team Leader
Public Trust
Phone: +64 (04) 474-3841 (DDI)
Mobile: 027 457 5974
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Information contained in this communication is confidential. If you are not
the intended recipient the information should not be used, disclosed, 
copied
or commercialised. The information is not necessarily the views nor the
official communication of Public Trust. No guarantee or representation is
made that the communication is free of errors, virus or interference.
--
u2-users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
_
Listen to music online with the Xtra Broadband Channel  
http://xtra.co.nz/broadband

--
u2-users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users

RE: UV Crash on W2K3

[Ross Ferris]

Sounds like a good find Sara - any of that midnight oil left :-)

Ross Ferris
Stamina Software
Visage – an Evolution in Software Development


>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Sara Burns
>Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 10:23 AM
>To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
>Subject: UV Crash on W2K3
>
>After extensive effort, creating an example to send to IBM we believe we
>have found the problem.
>
>One of our files had a trigger.  Due to this the big/little endian
>conversion, using CONVERT.FORMAT did not seem to completely work.  However
>this was not obvious.  We thought we had reconverted all files with
>triggers, but maybe we missed this one.
>
>The following commands worked without obvious problems.
>
>uvbackup
>COUNT BAD.FILE
>CT BAD.FILE *
>LIST BAD.FILE
>SORT BAD.FILE
>
>However FILE.STAT BAD.FILE failed with a message, but did not terminate the
>session.
>
>uvfixfile did not appear to do anything.  No error, just nothing.
>
>ACCOUNT.FILE.STATS worked without obvious error but the output in STAT.FILE
>showed incomplete information.
>
>The result of this was that basic programs failed intermittently which made
>this very, very difficult to track down.
>
>I will be raising this with IBM as I believe it is a bug.
>
>Sara Burns (SEB)
>Development Team Leader
>Public Trust
>Phone: +64 (04) 474-3841 (DDI)
>Mobile: 027 457 5974
><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Information contained in this communication is confidential. If you are not
>the intended recipient the information should not be used, disclosed,
>copied
>or commercialised. The information is not necessarily the views nor the
>official communication of Public Trust. No guarantee or representation is
>made that the communication is free of errors, virus or interference.
>--
>u2-users mailing list
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
>
>
>---
>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 15/04/2004
>

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 15/04/2004
 
--
u2-users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users

Re: UV Crash on W2K3

[Clifton Oliver]

Thanks for the report, Sara.

One thing I'd like to verify--is the work-around to this to simply 
delete the trigger and recreate it? Or did you have to create a whole 
new file, copy the records, and rename the file?

--

Regards,

Clif

~~~
W. Clifton Oliver, CCP
CLIFTON OLIVER & ASSOCIATES
Tel: +1 619 460 5678Web: www.oliver.com
~~~
On Apr 19, 2004, at 17:23, Sara Burns wrote:

After extensive effort, creating an example to send to IBM we believe 
we
have found the problem.

One of our files had a trigger.  Due to this the big/little endian
conversion, using CONVERT.FORMAT did not seem to completely work.  
However
this was not obvious.  We thought we had reconverted all files with
triggers, but maybe we missed this one.
--
u2-users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users

UV Crash on W2K3

[Sara Burns]

After extensive effort, creating an example to send to IBM we believe we
have found the problem.

One of our files had a trigger.  Due to this the big/little endian
conversion, using CONVERT.FORMAT did not seem to completely work.  However
this was not obvious.  We thought we had reconverted all files with
triggers, but maybe we missed this one.

The following commands worked without obvious problems.

uvbackup
COUNT BAD.FILE
CT BAD.FILE *
LIST BAD.FILE
SORT BAD.FILE

However FILE.STAT BAD.FILE failed with a message, but did not terminate the
session.

uvfixfile did not appear to do anything.  No error, just nothing.

ACCOUNT.FILE.STATS worked without obvious error but the output in STAT.FILE
showed incomplete information.

The result of this was that basic programs failed intermittently which made
this very, very difficult to track down.

I will be raising this with IBM as I believe it is a bug.

Sara Burns (SEB) 
Development Team Leader
Public Trust 
Phone: +64 (04) 474-3841 (DDI) 
Mobile: 027 457 5974

Information contained in this communication is confidential. If you are not
the intended recipient the information should not be used, disclosed, copied
or commercialised. The information is not necessarily the views nor the
official communication of Public Trust. No guarantee or representation is
made that the communication is free of errors, virus or interference.
-- 
u2-users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users

Re: UV Crash on W2K3

[FFT2001]

In a message dated 4/16/2004 3:38:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> 1.is this a problem with PROCS - does anyone else run a UniVerse system
> on NT which relies on PROCS to launch several layers of programs?

Sara can you explain this more? Perhaps with an example of exactly what you 
mean?
Thanks
Will
-- 
u2-users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users

RE: UV Crash on W2K3

[Sara Burns]

This is our first attempt at running our application on a Windows platform.
Previously we have run on UniData on Sequent then converted to UniVerse on
Sequent.  Currently running UniVerse on AIX 5.2.  The conversion from
Sequent to AIX required the Little / Big Endian swap and going back to Intel
requires that swap again.  We believe we have done that and to prove it have
run uvbackup over all files and recompiled all the programs.
 
I am beginning to think this may not be W2K3 as late yesterday we copied our
files to my old NT4 (SP6a) workstation and installed the UV 10.0.10 PE
version.  This gave the same results.
 
I have two thoughts - 
1.is this a problem with PROCS - does anyone else run a UniVerse system
on NT which relies on PROCS to launch several layers of programs?
2.our application is riddled with calls to the shell.  We have created
an item in the VOC to convert sh -c to DOS /c  -  might this be causing
problems.  We know there is a lot of work to convert all those shell
commands, but we just expected them to fail - not to cause wholesale
corruption.  On the original PDC version we installed the Unix for Windows
Service and things seemed to be working reasonably well.  Prior to that when
a shell script was found it would just freeze.
 
I believe we are seeing corruption of the session workspace.  This is
demonstrated by the loss of the correct @ACCOUNT or @LOGNAME and we have
also seen what appeared to still be a healthy session suddenly unable to
find a program in the VOC although it had been running it only minutes
before.  Simply recataloging the program made it available again. 
 
My biggest problem is - how do I get evidence to trace what is happening as
it is random.  
 
Any thoughts would be appreciated.  I get the digest so direct emails to me
at this address or [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
would be appreciated
Sara Burns
 
Sara Burns (SEB) 
Development Team Leader

Public Trust 
Phone: +64 (04) 474-3841 (DDI) 

Mobile: 027 457 5974
<  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Information contained in this communication is confidential. If you are not
the intended recipient the information should not be used, disclosed, copied
or commercialised. The information is not necessarily the views nor the
official communication of Public Trust. No guarantee or representation is
made that the communication is free of errors, virus or interference.

 
-- 
u2-users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users

RE: UV Crash on W2K3

[alfkec]

Interesting. I'm seeing a similar error on W2K with UD6.0.12 when we have
the prompt login path ticked in the telnet config in UniAdmin. Occasionally
when logging in and entering a new path we get an error. 

I'd be interested to know what the resolution is.

Thanks
-- 
Colin Alfke
Calgary, Alberta Canada

"Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean that you can't fix it"

Stu Pickles


>-Original Message-
>From: Sara Burns [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 6:03 PM
>To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
>Subject: UV Crash on W2K3
>
>
>We are starting testing our application on W2K3 and getting unexplained
>problems.  It is proving difficult to isolate the exact cause 
>but we are
>starting to see some trends.  The result is the session 
>crashing with the
>following general message in the Event Log
> 
>Universe error; Unhandled exception raised at address 0x77bd4528
>Access violation Attempted to read from address 0x00d8 
>Binary data is processor CONTEXT structure
> 
>Sometimes the address to be read is 0x
> 
>So far we have found that it is very much less likely to occur 
>if we do a
>LOGTO DEV rather than logging on directly to DEV.
> 
[snip]
> 
>Sara Burns
> 
>Sara Burns (SEB) 
-- 
u2-users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users

RE: UV Crash on W2K3

[djordan]

Hi Sarah

What is the application currently running on and what version.  (ie
Win2000 Uv9.4?) and what flavour.

In the past Loging in went through a login paragraph LOGIn.  I think
around release 1, the login paragraph went by the account name not
LOGIN.  Also with direct Login and Logto one would go to LOGIN paragraph
and the other would goto the Account name Paragraph.  If you are using
the lOGIN paragraph to open files or set environment parameters, this
may not have happened causing the fatal.

Regards

David Jordan
Managing  Consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Dacono Holdings Pty Ltd
Business & Technology Consulting
PO Box 909
Lane Cove 
NSW 2066
Australia
Ph 61 2 9418 8329
Fax 61 2 9427 2371
www.dacono.com.au 




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Sara Burns
Sent: Friday, 16 April 2004 10:03 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: UV Crash on W2K3


We are starting testing our application on W2K3 and getting unexplained
problems.  It is proving difficult to isolate the exact cause but we are
starting to see some trends.  The result is the session crashing with
the following general message in the Event Log
 
Universe error; Unhandled exception raised at address 0x77bd4528 Access
violation Attempted to read from address 0x00d8 
Binary data is processor CONTEXT structure
 
Sometimes the address to be read is 0x
 
So far we have found that it is very much less likely to occur if we do
a LOGTO DEV rather than logging on directly to DEV.
 
Can anyone help with information about the difference between a direct
login and a LOGTO which may have some bearing on this.
 
This situation does appear to be associated with running programs from
PROC and may be influenced by the size of the program.  We ran a very
simple 3 line PROC and 3 line program all night without a failure.
 
The general mechanism used as the framework for our application involves
launching programs via PROC and using PROCREAD and PROCWRITE to pass
data.  
 
This is an example of the LAYER.STACK
 
There are currently 1 uniVerse sessions; 1 interactive, 0 phantom

 

  Pid..  User name..  Port name.  Last command
processed .

 252  nedtelnet:252  runt [
get.input @
0x2F4 ]   
 

Layer type...  Program name  Address...

BASIC run machine  get.input 0x02F4

BASIC run machine  MAINTLNK  0x4160

BASIC run machine  runt  0x0B06

Verb

Proc

Proc

Proc

Command Language

Execute

BASIC run machine  CALL.ALL.FUNCTION 0x00DC

Verb

Proc

Proc

Proc

Command Language 
 
Running only basic programs, outside this framework, does not appear to
cause a problem.
 
We have not managed to get any useful information from DrWatson as this
does not seem to work for a service.  
Can anyone give hints as to how to get better information for a UniVerse
session which crashes so we can pass this to IBM.  We tried chaning the
MALLOCTRACING flag to 1 but cannot find any output.
 
We also see at times the @ACCOUNT = 0, @LOGNAME = 0 and @PATH = 00
These have changed from the original normal values.
 
We have set up a completely isolated network for W2K3 so everything must
be moved to these machines the old way - floppy disk or CD-ROM.  Our
network consists of a W2K3 PDC, a W2K3 member server with UniVerse 10.1
and a XP-Pro client.  All are running on Compaq desktops 1.8GHz, 248Mb
RAM
 
Initially we tried the Personal Edition 10.0.10 on a W2K3 PDC. We then
received the 10.1 version from IBM and tried on the W2K3 PDC Finally we
tried the 10.1 version on a W2K3 member server.
 
All gave the same results.
 
I am also posting this on the U2UG so I can view any replies over the
weekend as it is now Friday midday.
 
Sara Burns
 
Sara Burns (SEB) 
Development Team Leader

Public Trust 
Phone: +64 (04) 474-3841 (DDI) 

Mobile: 027 457 5974
< <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Information contained in this communication is confidential. If you are
not the intended recipient the information should not be used,
disclosed, copied or commercialised. The information is not necessarily
the views nor the official communication of Public Trust. No guarantee
or representation is made that the communication is free of errors,
virus or interference.

 
-- 
u2-users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users

-- 
u2-users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users

RE: UV Crash on W2K3

[Andrew Mack]

Hi all,

I have encountered a similar error when attempting to resize a dynamic file 
on our system. We are running UV 10.0.15 on W2K3 and when, as Administrator 
with Full Control, I try to RESIZE {filename} * * * a dynamic file I get 
this message both on screen and in the Application event log: error 1004

"UniVerse error: Unhandled Exception raised at address 0x00405CF7 : Access
violation.  Attempted to read from address 0x10309044.  Binary data is
processor CONTEXT structure.. "
I suspect that these events are related as I believe RESIZE attempts to 
"logto" the account you are in and create a temp file. I have tried 
different accounts, files and server setups. I have adjusted permissions and 
programs, to no avail.

Any help would be appreciated as I have run out of ideas.

Cheers

Andrew Mack
Systems Admin
HRMIS
New Zealand Defence Force
ph 64 4 2371 914
cell 64 021 626 446
From: Sara Burns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: U2 Users Discussion List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: UV Crash on W2K3
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:02:37 +1200
We are starting testing our application on W2K3 and getting unexplained
problems.  It is proving difficult to isolate the exact cause but we are
starting to see some trends.  The result is the session crashing with the
following general message in the Event Log
Universe error; Unhandled exception raised at address 0x77bd4528
Access violation Attempted to read from address 0x00d8
Binary data is processor CONTEXT structure
Sometimes the address to be read is 0x

So far we have found that it is very much less likely to occur if we do a
LOGTO DEV rather than logging on directly to DEV.
Can anyone help with information about the difference between a direct 
login
and a LOGTO which may have some bearing on this.

This situation does appear to be associated with running programs from PROC
and may be influenced by the size of the program.  We ran a very simple 3
line PROC and 3 line program all night without a failure.
The general mechanism used as the framework for our application involves
launching programs via PROC and using PROCREAD and PROCWRITE to pass data.
This is an example of the LAYER.STACK

There are currently 1 uniVerse sessions; 1 interactive, 0 phantom



  Pid..  User name..  Port name.  Last command
processed
.
 252  nedtelnet:252  runt [ get.input 
@
0x2F4 ]

Layer type...  Program name  Address...

BASIC run machine  get.input 0x02F4

BASIC run machine  MAINTLNK  0x4160

BASIC run machine  runt  0x0B06

Verb

Proc

Proc

Proc

Command Language

Execute

BASIC run machine  CALL.ALL.FUNCTION 0x00DC

Verb

Proc

Proc

Proc

Command Language

Running only basic programs, outside this framework, does not appear to
cause a problem.
We have not managed to get any useful information from DrWatson as this 
does
not seem to work for a service.
Can anyone give hints as to how to get better information for a UniVerse
session which crashes so we can pass this to IBM.  We tried chaning the
MALLOCTRACING flag to 1 but cannot find any output.

We also see at times the @ACCOUNT = 0, @LOGNAME = 0 and @PATH = 00  These
have changed from the original normal values.
We have set up a completely isolated network for W2K3 so everything must be
moved to these machines the old way - floppy disk or CD-ROM.  Our network
consists of a W2K3 PDC, a W2K3 member server with UniVerse 10.1 and a 
XP-Pro
client.  All are running on Compaq desktops 1.8GHz, 248Mb  RAM

Initially we tried the Personal Edition 10.0.10 on a W2K3 PDC.
We then received the 10.1 version from IBM and tried on the W2K3 PDC
Finally we tried the 10.1 version on a W2K3 member server.
All gave the same results.

I am also posting this on the U2UG so I can view any replies over the
weekend as it is now Friday midday.
Sara Burns

Sara Burns (SEB)
Development Team Leader
Public Trust
Phone: +64 (04) 474-3841 (DDI)
Mobile: 027 457 5974
< <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Information contained in this communication is confidential. If you are not
the intended recipient the information should not be used, disclosed, 
copied
or commercialised. The information is not necessarily the views nor the
official communication of Public Trust. No guarantee or representation is
made that the communication is free of errors, virus or interference.

--
u2-users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
_
Listen to music online with the Xtra Broadband Channel  
http://xtra.co.nz/broadband

--
u2-users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users

UV Crash on W2K3

[Sara Burns]

We are starting testing our application on W2K3 and getting unexplained
problems.  It is proving difficult to isolate the exact cause but we are
starting to see some trends.  The result is the session crashing with the
following general message in the Event Log
 
Universe error; Unhandled exception raised at address 0x77bd4528
Access violation Attempted to read from address 0x00d8 
Binary data is processor CONTEXT structure
 
Sometimes the address to be read is 0x
 
So far we have found that it is very much less likely to occur if we do a
LOGTO DEV rather than logging on directly to DEV.
 
Can anyone help with information about the difference between a direct login
and a LOGTO which may have some bearing on this.
 
This situation does appear to be associated with running programs from PROC
and may be influenced by the size of the program.  We ran a very simple 3
line PROC and 3 line program all night without a failure.
 
The general mechanism used as the framework for our application involves
launching programs via PROC and using PROCREAD and PROCWRITE to pass data.  
 
This is an example of the LAYER.STACK
 
There are currently 1 uniVerse sessions; 1 interactive, 0 phantom

 

  Pid..  User name..  Port name.  Last command
processed
.

 252  nedtelnet:252  runt [ get.input @
0x2F4 ]   
 

Layer type...  Program name  Address...

BASIC run machine  get.input 0x02F4

BASIC run machine  MAINTLNK  0x4160

BASIC run machine  runt  0x0B06

Verb

Proc

Proc

Proc

Command Language

Execute

BASIC run machine  CALL.ALL.FUNCTION 0x00DC

Verb

Proc

Proc

Proc

Command Language 
 
Running only basic programs, outside this framework, does not appear to
cause a problem.
 
We have not managed to get any useful information from DrWatson as this does
not seem to work for a service.  
Can anyone give hints as to how to get better information for a UniVerse
session which crashes so we can pass this to IBM.  We tried chaning the
MALLOCTRACING flag to 1 but cannot find any output.
 
We also see at times the @ACCOUNT = 0, @LOGNAME = 0 and @PATH = 00  These
have changed from the original normal values.
 
We have set up a completely isolated network for W2K3 so everything must be
moved to these machines the old way - floppy disk or CD-ROM.  Our network
consists of a W2K3 PDC, a W2K3 member server with UniVerse 10.1 and a XP-Pro
client.  All are running on Compaq desktops 1.8GHz, 248Mb  RAM
 
Initially we tried the Personal Edition 10.0.10 on a W2K3 PDC.
We then received the 10.1 version from IBM and tried on the W2K3 PDC
Finally we tried the 10.1 version on a W2K3 member server.
 
All gave the same results.
 
I am also posting this on the U2UG so I can view any replies over the
weekend as it is now Friday midday.
 
Sara Burns
 
Sara Burns (SEB) 
Development Team Leader

Public Trust 
Phone: +64 (04) 474-3841 (DDI) 

Mobile: 027 457 5974
<  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Information contained in this communication is confidential. If you are not
the intended recipient the information should not be used, disclosed, copied
or commercialised. The information is not necessarily the views nor the
official communication of Public Trust. No guarantee or representation is
made that the communication is free of errors, virus or interference.

 
-- 
u2-users mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users