[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-27 Thread getut
Although I do agree that some of the comments are a bit harsh, I also fear that if enough people do not squawk, and squawk loudly, this will be dropped. Many of the devs have come on here and shrugged this off with the statement, You have a way to get the old functionality back so what is the big

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-27 Thread Noel J. Bergman
Peter: An apology is irrelevant, IMO, and I think that Mark has been *remarkably* loyal to an idea and a developer that are totally off the beam on this issue. I'm continually amazed that people keep finding this bug, since every effort has been made to squelch it, from renaming it from the

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-27 Thread Brian Curtis
There was one dev that came here and stated (and to which I agree) that if the devs kept listening to everyones complaints Ubuntu wouldn't have changed since 4.10. There are those that are truly resistant to change and constantly badger devs because they didn't get what they wanted. On that

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-27 Thread T Rowe
Mark Shuttleworth wrote on 2009-03-27: Nothing like a healthy debate. Mark Shuttleworth on 2009-03-27 update-notifier (Ubuntu Jaunty) status: Confirmed → Won't Fix Sorry, but it doesn't seem like you want a debate. I'm just a plain old user of Ubuntu, and I highly disagree with

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-27 Thread Moritz Baumann
If you want to see how average users disagree with the change as well, just visit ubuntuusers.de: http://ikhaya.ubuntuusers.de/2009/03/31/update-notifier-und-die- heimliche-revolution-in-jaunty/ (German) ** Description changed: I am referring to the removal up the update-notifier in the Gnome

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-27 Thread Thomas Nardone
Sorry, I did not read all the comments, but here are my 2 cents: I honestly thought I might have a virus when the Update Manager came up, and did not trust it as a valid application. This is very strange behavior, and will be quite a shock to anyone who has used a previous version of Ubuntu, or

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-26 Thread Paul Broadhead
I'm afraid I'm another user against this change but enough people has already started very good arguments. The only reason I post now is to point out what someone must surely already have spotted, that the Ubuntu Desktop Edition web page (here

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-26 Thread Jamin W. Collins
I find it quite novel that the page Paul references[1] has this quote: Quick and easy updates The task bar contains an update area where we'll notify you when there are updates available for your system, from simple security fixes to a complete version upgrade. The update facility enables you to

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-26 Thread Chris Coulson
Good spot Paul - i just opened bug 367411 for that -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-26 Thread James Dowden
I had thought this was just a bug in the beta version, but I did not know which package to report it against. Now I've read this and I am totally outraged by this deliberate regression. As for Mark Shuttleworth's ludicrous assumption that only coding experts want the previous default behavior, it

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-26 Thread mac_v
James Dowden wrote: I had thought this was just a bug in the beta version, but I did not know which package to report it against. Now I've read this and I am totally outraged by this deliberate regression. As for Mark Shuttleworth's ludicrous assumption that only coding experts want the

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-26 Thread Peter Whittaker
On Sun, 2009-04-26 at 21:38 +, mac_v wrote: a bit too harsh there pal... Harsh? Perhaps. But given the comparative levels of user frustration and development intransigence, the frustration is understandable. asking the devs for an apology, is way out there!!! Absolutely not. At this

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-26 Thread danpai
please disable the popup update manager window , couz its really useless, and very-very annoying uuuh it give me high temper . :( who is giving the idea of this popup , i thing he never working -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-25 Thread mac_v
though i'm not a fan of these pop-unders, if any one wants to have the update manager launch immediately when updates are available,use this $ gconftool -s --type string /apps/update- notifier/regular_auto_launch_interval 0 the default is set to 7 days, but when this key is set to 0 the updates

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-25 Thread manzur
a good workaround for this should be to change update manager add/remove software by package kit -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-25 Thread Chauncellor
Oi, this is surely not going well... -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-24 Thread hurga
I can not even begin to describe how annoying and unneeded that change is, its a step back in usability. Just look at all the comments in the bugreport. Revert this, and whoever signed off on that change should be spanked, hard. -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-24 Thread Vincenzo Ciancia
Il giorno ven, 24/04/2009 alle 09.43 +, hurga ha scritto: Revert this, and whoever signed off on that change should be spanked, hard. I would not want _these persons_ to be spanked. In any case ubuntu developers have done an extremely good job across the years. Dapper was nothing more

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-24 Thread Imre Gergely
+1 here, I'm not against the popup / pop-under / pop-taskbar idea. But I like the notification icon, too. I would opt for keeping the old behaviour and adding a checkbox or something, so people can choose between whatever they like, the default being this new behaviour. -- [Jaunty] Update

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-24 Thread Keith Buel
I just want to add my concern about this change. I think the popup/under whatever alone is not a good idea. This will either be a distraction while trying to get work done, or get lost under all my windows. I would definitely want to turn that pop up off if possible. The upgrade/security update

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-24 Thread Jonatan Schroeder
Just to give my two cents on the subject: I'm in favour of keeping the notification icon for a simple reason. Someone (I don't remember if Mark or someone else) mentioned, from what I got, that the notification area has been used by applications, and to avoid confusion we should remove it from

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-22 Thread Peter Whittaker
It occurs to me that notification changes should have been handled in the same way as upstart changes, the availability of ext4. compiz effects, etc. In other words, do the work, enable the capability, but don't turn it on. Not yet. Certainly don't make it the default! Get it going, then invite

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-21 Thread Roshan George
Wow, this was completely unnecessary. I stumbled across this bug just today after installing Jaunty last night, and decided to check Update Manager and I had loads of updates which weren't being displayed. No notification, no information whatsoever that there were updates available. I cannot

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-21 Thread Jonathan Davies
Roshan: That is a separate issue - see bug #356152 for more details. -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. --

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-21 Thread pingou67
I've read bug #356152, if in addition the new scheme is buggy and unfinished, please, please, go back, revert the gconf variable for jaunty and rethink for karmic. I'm really convinced it's a very critical and visible part of the system, if it's not really clean and clear, it's not a good thing

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-21 Thread LanoxxthShaddow
I believe Roshan was talking about the notificaion area: I cannot imagine why getting rid of an updates _notification_ in a _notification area_ was reasonable. This is very annoying. Maybe you should read his post again. Jonathan Davies wrote: Roshan: That is a separate issue - see bug #356152

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread mac_v
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Stanislaw Pitucha wrote: Yeah... affects me too. why doesnt canonical add a voting system where the users can vote for a feature... the new notification system is good, but poorly planned... the *devs could have held off the app push atleast

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread xpd259
I think it's amazing that almost every single post on on this bug doesn't want this new method, and thats just the people who have taken the time to find/write a bug report and yet what the users wanted is as good as ignored pop up/under box's are evil if a window pops up with out there been

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Alan Pope
2009/4/20 mac_v drkv...@yahoo.com: why doesnt canonical add a voting system where the users can vote for a feature... http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ Just because something is popular, doesn't make it right. -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Philippe Escarbassière
2009/4/20 mac_v drkv...@yahoo.com: why doesnt canonical add a voting system where the users can vote for a feature... http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ Just because something is popular, doesn't make it right. I'm not sure building a feature everybody dislikes is better... --

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread mac_v
Alan Pope wrote: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ Just because something is popular, doesn't make it right. @alan i'v know about brain storm... but its for new ideas and implementation... i suggest for voting already implemented new features... i understand that popular doesnt mean right...

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread mac_v
xpd259 wrote: a simple notification bubble been shown every x min is more then enough to notify a user to update with out intruding on the users desktop +1 ^ this is a lovely idea... xpd i hope u can add this to the notify-osd comments section -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Liam O'Reilly
We need at least some permanent notification of updates, reboot required and application restart required. These can be flashed up using the new system but in addition to a permanent notification. -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Philippe Escarbassière
s/everybody/a vocal minority/ Regarding the number of duplicates and comments, I don't believe it's a vocal minority. And regarding all the opposition, maybe a kind of survey would be nice to be sure the feature is benefic to Ubuntu users or not. At least I find it's premature to enable this

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Shahar Or
Dear friends, Please excuse me for not reading everything before asking this question. I've just reported a bug which turns out to be a duplicate of this one. Now, what I reported was that I don't get notified of upgrades. So again, I'm sorry that I'm not going to read everything here. I just

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Alan Pope
2009/4/20 Philippe Escarbassière phil_...@club-internet.fr: I'm not sure building a feature everybody dislikes is better... s/everybody/a vocal minority/ -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Stanislaw Pitucha
a vocal minority? Take all ubuntu users: - leave only jaunty testers - leave only people who actually noticed that anything is wrong - take away people who don't usually report bugs at all those people will be a minority for sure and they are vocal, because they report bug. Everyone commenting

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Stanislaw Pitucha
Sorry, I really want to be precise here: not leave only people who actually noticed that anything is wrong but leave only people who noticed that there are updates available, but there is no update icon -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread LanoxxthShaddow
+1 please do a survey or make a poll available for users to vote. There are currently about 20 bugs with (from what I see) the majority of the people complaining about it. This is not a minor thing. -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Vincenzo Ciancia
Il giorno lun, 20/04/2009 alle 09.27 +, Alan Pope ha scritto: I'm not sure building a feature everybody dislikes is better... s/everybody/a vocal minority/ This comment is anti-scientific. Either you invent a survey and convince users (ubuntu or launchpad users, and it makes a

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread pingou67
a vocal minority... that it's too much for me ! I'm not sure it's ubuntu to treat your alpha/beta/rc testers in this way. How many comments and how many duplicates will it take for you to realize that you are wrong (and jaunty is not yet released)? Many people took the time to argue to prove you

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread mac_v
xpd259 wrote: a simple notification bubble been shown every x min is more then enough to notify a user to update with out intruding on the users desktop @Matthew Paul Thomas , Alan Pope consider this idea instead of the pop-under... i understand this is not immediately possible, but hope

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread mac_v
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alan Pope wrote: 2009/4/20 Philippe EscarbassiÚre phil_...@club-internet.fr: I'm not sure building a feature everybody dislikes is better... s/everybody/a vocal minority/ yeah maybe we are the minority who think that they can improve this

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread mac_v
Alan Pope wrote: 2009/4/20 Philippe EscarbassiÚre phil_...@club-internet.fr: I'm not sure building a feature everybody dislikes is better... s/everybody/a vocal minority/ yeah maybe we are the minority who think that they can improve this linux flavor , but signing up for an account ,

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Jordan Mantha
It would be helpful, I think, if people could try not to use devs or developers here as if all the Ubuntu developers got together and decided this. The notify-osd system was designed and implemented by Canonical and they should get the credit/flames for it. Developers are also users and in this

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread xpd259
simple answer .. unofficial answer but here is a poll http://www.doodle.com/h7shad47ffgpxpyq -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Vincenzo Ciancia
Il giorno lun, 20/04/2009 alle 14.37 +, xpd259 ha scritto: simple answer .. unofficial answer but here is a poll http://www.doodle.com/h7shad47ffgpxpyq Am I reading Mark Shuttleworth voting for the old-style notification? Perhaps a poll with launchpad authentication would be

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Philippe Escarbassière
@Jonathan I didn't speak about developers. I'm a developer myself and I try not to bash other developers and respect their work. But I listen to users feedback too. In this case, even if 221 votes are not a proof (plus other forum posts and wiki comments), it's clearly an indication this new

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Alan Lord
+1. I dislike not having the Update Notifier. In two weeks on Jaunty I have never noticed an update notice. Not once. That's bad IMHO. -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Steve Langasek
** Project changed: ubuntu-release-notes = null -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. -- ubuntu-bugs mailing list

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Chris Coulson
2009/4/20 xpd259 xpd...@gmail.com simple answer .. unofficial answer but here is a poll http://www.doodle.com/h7shad47ffgpxpyq Well, it's conclusive, obviously - 25 people have voted in favour of the old system so far, including Bill Gates, The Real Slim Shady and the Big Bird off of Sesame

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Stanislaw Pitucha
Now, since it's too late to revert a default gconf value Really? This is probably the only issue I've seen through the last couple of releases that affects everyone, in everyday usage scenarios, was security related (security updates might go unnoticed) and was disagreed with that much. Maybe I

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Matthew Paul Thomas
Philippe, if we made only changes that were welcome to everybody, we wouldn't have changed anything since Ubuntu 4.10. -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread arand
Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: Il giorno lun, 20/04/2009 alle 14.37 +, xpd259 ha scritto: simple answer .. unofficial answer but here is a poll http://www.doodle.com/h7shad47ffgpxpyq Am I reading Mark Shuttleworth voting for the old-style notification? Perhaps a poll with

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Jordan Mantha
On Mon, 2009-04-20 at 15:01 +, Philippe Escarbassière wrote: @Jonathan I didn't speak about developers. I'm a developer myself and I try not to bash other developers and respect their work. But I listen to users feedback too. I wasn't picking you out in particular, I'm just hoping to

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Brian J. Murrell
On Mon, 2009-04-20 at 15:34 +, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: Philippe, if we made only changes that were welcome to everybody, we wouldn't have changed anything since Ubuntu 4.10. s/everybody/most people/ or s/everybody/majority of users/ as I think the original intention of everybody was

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Stanislaw Pitucha
Auch - just found something nasty... The bad change (at least according to the changelog): * make auto_launch update-manager mode the default (as asked for by the DX team) was done / packaged on Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:47:37 +0100 While feature freeze was on February 19th and UI freeze was on

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread getut
Am I totally misunderstanding this issue??? As I understand it / complained / bug reported... I think most people don't care whether the notification comes in the form of the new notify- osd system or the old way with the orange spiked ball or red arrow that show up on the panel. The issue I

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Jamin W. Collins
I apologize in advance for the length of this post. @Matthew, Sorry it's taken so long for me to respond, work and life became a bit demanding. (1) Yes, it is more obtrusive, that's entirely deliberate, and I don't know what study you're referring to. While study may be the wrong word to

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Kazagistar
First of all, I see a problem with defaults. Whenever an application wants to inform the user of something, or get feedback on something, it should use bubbles... that much makes sense. But when it NEEDS something, when something is so urgent that you would go through all this trouble to make

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Uwe Schilling
If you want users who cannot handle a notification icon to update the system, then a pop-up window might not be any better, because every regular window that pops up somewhere is closed without reading by default by at least 90% of the users. For those users, an automated update process should be

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-20 Thread Uwe Schilling
Additionally, I think the current procedure opens a huge security leak. If people get used to pop-up windows asking for updates, it will be no problem imitating these pop-up windows with java-script and make them look exactly the same. And since you are used to entering your password when you

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-19 Thread Stanislaw Pitucha
I have to add my vote here, because this is a big thing for me. Pop-up/under windows are something we were fighting with until 2-3 years ago - please don't bring them back in any form. I'm not sure what the notification overload problem is about. There are exactly 3 permanent notification on my

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-18 Thread LanoxxthShaddow
I also think this is not a good decision. Windows that pop up are never good, no matter for what purpose and whether they are pop-ups or pop- unders. As Osliner I too explained everybody how to update their system if the red notifier showed up, and that worked well for them. Personally I also like

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-16 Thread getut
I run many Ubuntu stations in a production environment and my users are heavily limited in what they can and can't do. Machines sign on automatically and users are NOT given the password for the account. All updates are done via script or manually via SSH from IT. Now with this version I am

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-16 Thread Steve Langasek
Documented in the release notes at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyJackalope/ReleaseNotes#Change%20in%20notifications%20of%20available%20updates. ** Changed in: ubuntu-release-notes Status: New = Fix Released -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-16 Thread Matthew Paul Thomas
getut, if updates were being advertised to people who couldn't possibly install them, that was a bug regardless of whether they were being advertised with a window or an icon. Please report the bug if you haven't already. Thanks! -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-16 Thread BUGabundo
On Thursday 16 April 2009 15:41:49 getut wrote: I run many Ubuntu stations in a production environment and my users are heavily limited in what they can and can't do. Machines sign on automatically and users are NOT given the password for the account. All updates are done via script or

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-16 Thread getut
Matthew and BUGabundo, in our environment since multiple users were not needed, we chose to go with a single user install with automatic signon...so it is the default and only user account on the system. This means it is admin but the users are NOT given the password for the account. I use

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-16 Thread gusztee
okay, here is my little experience with this new system: I upgraded my girlfriends and her sisters computer, not because i wanted to put a beta system on there computer, but some drivers where better. it doesnt matter here anyway. What happened is that they didn't update their system in the last

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-14 Thread Matthew Paul Thomas
Jan Claeys: Google wanted Web apps to be able to put icons in the notification area in HTML 5. http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg- whatwg.org/2009-March/018722.html That request has been turned down for now, but it's possible they'll attempt the same thing with browser extensions. mac_v:

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-14 Thread Brian J. Murrell
On Tue, 2009-04-14 at 09:26 +, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: ami_nakata: Not only is it an implementation detail whether an automatically-opening window is from a newly-running application or an already-running application, it's an implementation detail whether *any* window is from a

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-13 Thread cement_head
man, I really liked the notification icon - it should be put back (or the option to do so) - CH -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-12 Thread BUGabundo
why not shove that into the indicator applet (messaging menu) ? -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Bugs, which is subscribed to Ubuntu. --

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-12 Thread Brian Curtis
A few suggestions i'd like to add, -maybe they should popunder, then if the X is clicked push it to the messaging menu -the user then controls priority (its popped under as a high priority item), then if nothings done (an X (close) is clicked) it lowers in priority to the messaging menu -maybe

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-10 Thread Moritz Baumann
@Peter: I love your idea, but regarding your last comment: I'd rather provide a checkbox (un-checked by default) for the »remind me again later« option since users are used to getting two options (OK and Cancel). A dialogue offering three options is rather confusing and unusual in the first place

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-10 Thread ami_nakata
@Matthew (MPT): Matthew, I'd like to highlight some of the things you've written about user-interface design that directly inform this controversy: You wrote above: Brian, whether an automatically-opening window is from a newly-running application or an already-running application is,

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-09 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
Peter Whittaker wrote: On Wed, 2009-04-08 at 19:55 +, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: I think it's important that we not treat the OS specially, Mark, thanks for your comments. I think this one area where there is considerable disagreement: The OS is different - when the computer needs

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-09 Thread Thomas Heidrich
What can _we_ do to get an acceptable system behavior? It was really hard for me to tell my mother that the update icon won't appear anymore. She really got used to it. Big pop-ups would seriously confuse her. I agree with Mark that the notification area is used by too many applications. Why not

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-09 Thread Vincenzo Ciancia
Il giorno gio, 09/04/2009 alle 07.38 +, Mark Shuttleworth ha scritto: My point is that we should have clear guidelines about what constitutes each mode of operation, and we should follow those as rigorously with the OS as we would hope apps do, as well. I dreamed of clear guidelines

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-09 Thread Peter Whittaker
On Thu, 2009-04-09 at 08:38 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: Peter Whittaker wrote: The OS is different - when the computer needs to tell me something, I probably shouldn't ignore it. Think firealarm. Yes, that's true. But there are some apps that have fire alarms too - imagine, for

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-09 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
Peter Whittaker wrote: If you read my comments on the wiki page, you'll see I make clear distinctions between system and user notifications: Let's apply that distinction consistently. A user notification is a doorbell, it appears in the user notification area, near where the user keeps their

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-09 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: What would be the place to participate in the design of the notification-area related changes? Join the Ayatana team mailing list on Launchpad! Mark -- [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/332945 You

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-09 Thread Torben
'Ello, I wish to register a complaint! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6Lq771TVm4 That is exactly how I feel, you are trying to sell me some stone dead parrot. We are trading our notification icon in the well known notification area for some flashing button in the window list at the other side

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-09 Thread Pausanias
Having read the whole thread I am adding my voice to do this. I believe that the decision to remove the notification icon was a mistake. Here are my arguments. 1) System tray is a guarantee of authenticity -- If you're trying to

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-09 Thread Matthew Paul Thomas
Pausanias, the notification area is not a guarantee of authenticity in either Windows or Ubuntu. In both OSes it can be used by third-party applications, including malware. And in both OSes the vendor is clamping down on third-party use, though in different ways. We're at an advantage, because

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-09 Thread Peter Whittaker
On Thu, 2009-04-09 at 11:41 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: Peter Whittaker wrote: If you read my comments on the wiki page, you'll see I make clear distinctions between system and user notifications: Let's apply that distinction consistently. A user notification is a doorbell, it appears

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-09 Thread Jan Claeys
Op donderdag 09-04-2009 om 14:16 uur [tijdzone +], schreef Matthew Paul Thomas: Pausanias, the notification area is not a guarantee of authenticity in either Windows or Ubuntu. In both OSes it can be used by third-party applications, including malware. Once there is malware on your PC then

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-09 Thread mac_v
@Mathew: PLS , could u just answer one question... when i'm working i get a notification to update so i update thinking its would just work in the background but after the update it asks for a restart i choose to restart later i'd be reminded again after 1 day to restart, when of course

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-09 Thread Peter Whittaker
On Thu, 2009-04-09 at 16:55 +, mac_v wrote: wouldnt this problem be avoided if there was a reminder, which reminded me after my work was over, to restart? I thought of this as well, and included a mechanism in my comments on the wiki page - when you click on a system notification, you are

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-09 Thread BUGabundo
Olá ktp420 e a todos. On Thursday 09 April 2009 03:50:12 ktp420 wrote: Can please provide studies which show and helped in your conclusion that system tray is heavily overused. Here is one -- Hi, I'm BUGabundo, and I am Ubuntu (whyubuntu.com) (``-_-´´) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net

RE: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-09 Thread ktp420
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 14:16:00 + From: m...@canonical.com To: ktp...@live.com Subject: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information Pausanias, the notification area is not a guarantee of authenticity in either Windows or Ubuntu. In both

RE: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-09 Thread ktp420
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:10:08 + From: ubu...@bugabundo.net To: ktp...@live.com Subject: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information Olá ktp420 e a todos. On Thursday 09 April 2009 03:50:12 ktp420 wrote: Can please provide studies

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-09 Thread mac_v
@BUGabundo: do u realize the difference between notification icons and applets? ur panel is filled up with nearly 26 icons of which only * 8 * come under the category of notification icons , * any almost the icons displayed come with the default setting of no icon in the notification icon *

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-08 Thread Matthew Paul Thomas
Jamin, to address your three points once more: (1) Yes, it is more obtrusive, that's entirely deliberate, and I don't know what study you're referring to. (2) Using a notification icon to advertise updates is a bad idea first because it's not obvious, and second because it makes installing the

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-08 Thread mac_v
Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:: (1) Yes, it is more obtrusive, that's entirely deliberate, and I don't know what study you're referring to. (2) Using a notification icon to advertise updates is a bad idea first because it's not obvious, and second because it makes installing the updates

[Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-08 Thread Brian Curtis
@ mac_v: It appears as if you're basing your judgement on the amount of clicks it takes to perform actions. The amount of time it *really* takes to make 4 clicks (making the assumption that you have to move the mouse between each click), is no more than like 4 seconds. What makes these things

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-08 Thread kulight
i have to agree with mac_v On Wed, 2009-04-08 at 13:56 +, mac_v wrote: Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:: (1) Yes, it is more obtrusive, that's entirely deliberate, and I don't know what study you're referring to. (2) Using a notification icon to advertise updates is a bad idea first

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-08 Thread Alan Pope
2009/4/8 mac_v drkv...@yahoo.com: @Matthew RIDICULOUS EXPLANATIONS 1] seems to  be a deliberate move... OK .. thts understood 2] 3]not obvious???gratuitously difficult.? ARE U KIDDING Lets keep this calm and adult shall we. the reasons we have road signs as symbols rather

Re: [Bug 332945] Re: [Jaunty] Update Notifier icon would provide useful status information

2009-04-08 Thread ddumont
Are you being intruded when your e-mail program notifies you in a persistent window that new mail is ready (and maybe even bring up the program window unfocused)? Are you being intruded when your IM client pops up a window when someone new IM's you? YES! Now please allow for the user to revert

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