I reported a couple of related bugs :
laptop-mode-tools uses hparm -B 255 instead of 254 please sync
laptop-mode-tools from Debian to fix this
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/laptop-mode-tools/+bug/172282
hdparm's feedback about -B values is misleading
I didn't have time to read everything here so I'm sorry if I state
something already pointed out.
I followed the load_cycle_count discussions about a month ago and using
smartctl, I found out I didn't have a problem. After about a week of
monitoring the load cycling, the number increased by
another related bug (for those that wish to enable laptop-mode to
decrease unnecessary diskactivity and prevent useless unparking of the
head) :
laptop-mode should default to use relatime for ext3 partitions while on battery
while keeping the option to use noatime while on battery
Bart,
Disabling the APM feature of a drive can never be a fix. Parking the
drives is a feature of the disk, and the The Load_Cycle_Count is
supposed to go up, albeit slowly, during normal usage. The point of
this bug is that the pathological worst case for load cycling is one
access every 30
I thoroughly agree with mark thomas - what is being proposed here will
override the defaults set by hardware manufacturers and OEMs. Perhaps it
is helpful for some people, but it's a blanket decision that will change
the behaviour of a lot of systems - behaviour that was chosen by the
people who
This bug is really critical. It has a severe impact on a large portion of users
and affects an essential hardware component.
I mark it as it should.
** Changed in: acpi-support (Ubuntu)
Importance: Wishlist = Critical
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten
-- Please pardon if this is a duplicate, I accidentally sent from the
wrong account and I don't know how that's handled by launchpad.
It is not the place for the operating system to save the user from
themselves.
Whose opinion is that? I would argue that it is, indeed the operating
system's
Why not make the workaround available by the use of a configuration option?
The default would be, to apply the workaround. So each administrator could
manually
disable it via dpkg-reconfigure acpi-support, if she thinks it eats up
battery power
or melts the harddrives.
This would help those
Mark,
Although I agree with some points you make, I want to question some
other assumptions.
Mark Thomas wrote:
Disabling the APM feature of a drive can never be a fix. Parking the
drives is a feature of the disk, and the The Load_Cycle_Count is
supposed to go up, albeit slowly, during
Brian Visel wrote:
It is not the place for the operating system to save the user from
themselves.
Whose opinion is that? I would argue that it is, indeed the operating
system's place to save the user from themselves.
...and especially w.r.t. hardware, I might add! The OS is supposed to be
Bart Samwel wrote:
Whose opinion is that? I would argue that it is, indeed the operating
system's place to save the user from themselves.
...and especially w.r.t. hardware, I might add! The OS is supposed to be
You are actually all talking about saving users from their hardware
vendors, not
Chris Jones wrote:
Bart Samwel wrote:
Whose opinion is that? I would argue that it is, indeed the operating
system's place to save the user from themselves.
...and especially w.r.t. hardware, I might add! The OS is supposed to be
You are actually all talking about saving users from their
** Also affects: acpi-support (Fedora)
Importance: Undecided
Status: New
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
Bugs, which is the bug
According to Debian upstream Fixed in version acpi-support/0.103-2.
When would Ubuntu get this fixed, I have all my laptops running 7.10 and this
is definitely a scary bit.
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695
You
The Debian update is the workaround not the fix:
* Set hdparm power management to 254 for all hard drives.
I'd be happier to see the known idle-writers fixed first, so we can
start finding out what else causes the problem. I'm concerned that with
a workaround in place this will get neglected
Mark Thomas wrote:
The Debian update is the workaround not the fix:
* Set hdparm power management to 254 for all hard drives.
I'd be happier to see the known idle-writers fixed first, so we can
start finding out what else causes the problem. I'm concerned that with
a workaround in
In /etc/laptop-mode-laptop-mode.conf:
CONTROL_HD_IDLE_TIMEOUT=1
LM_AC_HD_IDLE_TIMEOUT_SECONDS=300
LM_BATT_HD_IDLE_TIMEOUT_SECONDS=300
NOLM_HD_IDLE_TIMEOUT_SECONDS=7200
CONTROL_HD_POWERMGMT=1
BATT_HD_POWERMGMT=254
LM_AC_HD_POWERMGMT=255
NOLM_AC_HD_POWERMGMT=255
In
Here's my (dirty) fix.
http://j.wuffgirl.com/ubuntu_kills_discs.txt
I have not modified the drive's default APM setting in any way, and reinstalled
Windows Vista Home Premium (the OS that came with the computer) to establish a
baseline for comparison:
Using a port of hdparm for Windows I
@ Chris Jones:
ThinkPad X40 drives' raw value is a packed 48 bit number:
3037783573354 = 0x02C34A02C36A
0x02C34A = 181066
0x02C36A = 181098
One of these is your current load cycle count. The other is the load
cycle count at some recent event (most recent power cycle or something,
not sure
Certain desktop drives are also affected. Western Digital is using rapid
parking as a selling point of it's green drives. They give three years
of warranty but apparently they haven't tested these drives with a Linux
desktop.
Western Digital's power saving desktop drives (WD Caviar GP) such as
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
ubuntu_demon wrote:
Certain desktop drives are also affected. Western Digital is using rapid
parking as a selling point of it's green drives. They give three years
of warranty but apparently they haven't tested these drives with a Linux
desktop.
to Bart Samwel :
Since it's currently impossible to recommend to turn laptop_mode on by default
I'm currently recommending this to people who are heavily affected :
* use apm 128 while on battery (most head parks, best protection from bumps,
lower power usage)
* use apm 254 while on AC (no
ubuntu_demon wrote:
Since it's currently impossible to recommend to turn laptop_mode on by
default I'm currently recommending this to people who are heavily affected :
* use apm 128 while on battery (most head parks, best protection from bumps,
lower power usage)
* use apm 254 while on AC
to Bart Samwel :
Thanks for all your help in solving this problem. Having acpi-support
setting some sane apm default while on battery and 254 while on AC would
be a big help to solve this problem.
Possible problems with a default apm of 128 while on battery :
* some people might use their
Lea Wiemann wrote:
(I'm using Debian by the way, but from the other reports I've seen I
believe I'm having the same problem that some Ubuntu users have.)
FYI: In Debian the hdparm -B 254 workaround has been included in
acpi-support (version 0.103-4). This'll at least keep the hard drives
** Bug watch added: Debian Bug tracker #448673
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=448673
** Also affects: acpi-support (Debian) via
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=448673
Importance: Unknown
Status: Unknown
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles
** Bug watch added: Novell/SUSE Bugzilla #338230
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=338230
** Also affects: suse via
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=338230
Importance: Unknown
Status: Unknown
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may
Brian: Thanks for reminding me that the Old_age values don't always
necessarily start at 100.
I apologise if anyone thinks I am being harsh, but I see a lot of hair
pulling about how drives are going to die in 6 months, with numbers that
are very hard to interpret (something I am clearly guilty
Bart Samwel thanks for notifying us. Do you think acpi-support should be
modified to use hdparm -B 254 while on AC and hdparm -B 128 while on
battery (including booting from battery)? While on battery you generally
want to save power and protect your disk from bumps by parking as soon
as possible.
Bart Samwel do you think acpi-support should set apm 128 while on
battery or that laptop-mode should be enabled by default ? Do you think
the default settings of laptop-mode in Ubuntu are sane ?
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
confirming the problem EVEN when on AC power,
(also confirming that you can circumnavigate the problem by setting
hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda and entering the correct values in
/etc/hdparm.conf),
Dell Vostro 1000 (less than 2 weeks old, had about 1450 Load_Cycle_Counts on 13
hours of activity)
HD is
ubuntu_demon wrote:
Bart Samwel thanks for notifying us. Do you think acpi-support should be
modified to use hdparm -B 254 while on AC and hdparm -B 128 while on
battery (including booting from battery)? While on battery you generally
want to save power and protect your disk from bumps by
Maybe the best Ubuntu can do for now is :
* Ubuntu should probably sync the acpi-support fix from Debian (at least for
now)
* let's all report unnecessary disk activity bugs (to improve Hardy)
* maybe Ubuntu Hardy should enable laptop-mode by default while running on
battery with sane defaults
ubuntu_demon wrote:
* maybe Ubuntu Hardy should enable laptop-mode by default while running on
battery with sane defaults
Not this one. It was disabled for a good reason -- system hangs. Nobody
ever found the real reason, but this is a very real problem. :-/
--
High frequency of load/unload
ubuntu_demon wrote:
Bart Samwel do you think acpi-support should set apm 128 while on
battery or that laptop-mode should be enabled by default ? Do you think
the default settings of laptop-mode in Ubuntu are sane ?
Yes, the default settings are sane. Disabling it by default is necessary
to Chris Jones :
I do encourage people to use the tools specific for their harddrive to
test their harddrive if the information they supply regarding their
Load_Cycle_Count looks bad. (the ultimate boot cd-rom contains most of
these tools)
If I would use apm 128 on my new drive the
Thank you so much, Debian!!!
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu.
--
ubuntu-bugs mailing list
to Bart Samwel :
Thanks for being so helpful.
Did you fix Debian's acpi-support in such a way that it remembers apm 254 after
suspend / hibernate ?
Did you consider the fact that some people might run into heat problems which
also might affect the lifetime of their harddisk ?
--
High
ubuntu_demon wrote:
to Bart Samwel :
Thanks for being so helpful.
Did you fix Debian's acpi-support in such a way that it remembers apm 254
after suspend / hibernate ?
Yes: the script 90-hdparm.sh is included in /etc/acpi/resume.d as well
as in /etc/acpi/start.d.
Did you consider the
Chris:
Thanks for reminding me that the Old_age values don't always
necessarily start at 100.
Np..
I apologise if anyone thinks I am being harsh, but I see a lot of hair
pulling about how drives are going to die in 6 months, with numbers that
are very hard to interpret (something I am
Bart, thank you so much for the information!
We've been flying blind (I.e., had no communication) for a very long
time here.
-Brian
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695
You received this bug notification because
This issue has been extensively covered in the press recently and, as
should be blindingly obvious by now, is, by and large, nonsense.
First of all, let me make this absolutely clear - you should pay ZERO
attention to the number reported by smartctl for Load_Cycle_Count. It is
probably not a raw
193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0022 075 075 000Old_age Always
- 50485
I've bought the computer at the end of August 2007, and started using hdparam
-B192 since the end of october. So we can consider that in two months, I've
used 25% of the timelife for this parameter,
to Chris Jones :
Because you don't suffer from this issue doesn't mean nobody suffers
from it.
Some examples of people suffering from this problem :
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3677732postcount=174
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3677803postcount=175
193 Load_Cycle_Count
Chris,
You're right that people should, by and large, be going off of thresh,
value, and worst. And, no, it doesn't hurt to look at the count, if
the count on your particular system is accurate -- in fact, it can be
quite helpful when checking to see if your system has stopped
parking/unparking
Hey Chris,
I doubt you are correct about that. These are my values:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED
WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032 072 072 000Old_age Always
- 289087
I assume VALUE is going down
Chris,
It was bad enough obsessing about one mysterious number, but now your
remarks regarding VALUE and THRESH really got me worried. Here's my
reading:
193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 026 026 000 Old_age Always - 149312
I've been using this Seagate hard disk for less than a year, and VALUE
has
this bug is more than 3 months old and affecting a lot of ubuntu users
and still in which list !!! Is the Ubuntu Laptop Team still alive or
what
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695
You received this bug
Nizar, please don't post this kind of useless comment. If you can help,
please do so. If not, please just wait, Ubuntu Laptop Team is working on
this issue. Nobody forces you to use Ubuntu, and you are free to change
your operating system. I remind you that this bug also affects other
It would, however, be nice to have some regular updates from the laptop
team to let us know how things are coming along. We really need some
communication here.
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695
You received
That's not the point...
On Mon, 2007-11-19 at 20:51 +, slasher-fun wrote:
Nizar, please don't post this kind of useless comment. If you can help,
please do so. If not, please just wait, Ubuntu Laptop Team is working on
this issue. Nobody forces you to use Ubuntu, and you are free to change
Well, you can blame people for getting a little annoyed.
I've seen four types of responses on this bug:
- complaining about the bug: not usefull
- people playing the blame-game and dismissing importance and
reponsibility: you have no clue how much you are hurting Ubuntu's
reputation. See
This is a pretty major issue, mainly Hitachi drives, I have checked
about ten ubuntu laptops in the last week, three that had hitachi are
over the half million load unloads, the youngest of these was 6months
old. I think this should be rolled into an update and pushed out to all
supported
Hi
I have only one question. Should I stop Load_Cycle_Count using solution:
File:
99-hdd-spin-fix.sh
With:
#!/bin/sh
hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda
hdparm -S0 /dev/sda
Into:
/etc/acpi/suspend.d/
/etc/acpi/resume.d/
/etc/acpi/start.d/
This solution stopped my HDD Load_Cycle_Count number at 128317
Don't know about Load_Cycle_Count, but Power-Off_Retract_Count seems to
be a bug in smartctl OR the firmware that gives this number. On my
Ubuntu thinkpad it is:
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 100 100 000Old_age Always
- 548864062
with
9 Power_On_Hours 0x0012
What don't put this issue is critical?
For me is a really good reason to switch on Debian (or other REAL open
dist). All dist has perhaps this issue BUT i don't think they stay with
a wishlist importance after all this comments
What the problem with Ubuntu team?
I lose my hard disc on a 7
gagarine, please don't make this kind of useless comments. Ubuntu team is
working on this problem. Please only add comments if you can HELP fixing this
issue, not if you just want to say things that don't help.
Thanks.
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten
Shouldn't it be read as temporarily as that value 255 disables APM for
the hard disk making it run hotter.
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
to Rino Mardo :
The value for disabling apm is 254.
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu.
--
254 or 255 both disabled my APM.
anyway, the best i found, IMHO, is to edit /etc/laptop-mode/laptop-
mode.conf and change CONTROL_HD_POWERMGMT=0 value to 1, then reboot.
my Load_Cycle_Count and Temperature_Celsius remained to a reasonably low
values. no frequent hard disk clicking.
--
High
On my hard disk (Toshiba MK3006GAL), 255 did not give much improvement,
but 254 solved the problem. I have not tested CONTROL_HD_POWERMGMT. The
temperature went up from about 44 to 47 degrees celcius (no controlled
testing environment though), which is still well within range.
Considering that my
And since I've had hard disks throwing errors within short time spans,
quite possibly because of the high load cycle count, I'll be the 50th
person to request that the importance of this issue be
increased—Wishlist is definitely too low.
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks
Has anyone tried running hdparm from Cygwin on Windows to determine what
MS is setting the values to? Could this be as simple as getting the
values from Windows for your laptop/hard drive and then using those
values in a startup script under Linux?
I dont have my laptop yet, so I cant try it
** Description changed:
- It is claimed that some systems are seeing an unusually high number of
- load/unload cycles on their hard disks, as evidenced by smartctl.
+ It is confirmed that some systems are seeing an unusually high number of
+ load/unload cycles on their hard disks, as evidenced by
I updated the description to reflect current information.
** Description changed:
It is confirmed that some systems are seeing an unusually high number of
load/unload cycles on their hard disks, as evidenced by smartctl. It
was originally surmised that this was related to laptop-mode
I don't see any difference at all in the rate of increase of the load
cycle counter between Feisty and XP Pro. It's about 24-25 units/hour for
both. Dell laptop with Seagate hard disk. I used to have a Hitachi disk
on the same computer and I remember the audible clicks were more
frequent (about
I own a Dell inspiron 1520 with a newly replaced Fujitsu MHY2160B 160gb
HD. Upon typing in
sudo smartctl -A /dev/sda
I'm given a host of information [i]except 193 Load_Cycle_Count[/i].
Any clues why? Does my drive not support this? Using grep | 193 gives me
a blank. Nothing.
Also, is there a
to Concolor :
Sometimes Load_Cycle_Count is listed under a different number instead of
193 that's why it's better to grep for Load_Cycle_Count.
Please don't use the bug tracker for support. Here's the support thread for
this issue :
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=591503
--
High
On smartctl reporting numbers in the billions:
HW does not always report information the same way when queried. Some
HD's are reported in a different way than expected, but that hardware
which does so will also increase its Load_Cycle_Count not by one every
time, but by some exponent of two
The workaround posted at comment
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi-
support/+bug/59695/comments/14 work fine on a lot of configuration. Why
don't commit this in urgency before a better solution?
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
to gagarine :
* because currently the reasoning goes that manufacturers should set
appropriate settings (because they should know what their hardware is capable
of)
* because applying an apm of 254 might cause the harddrive's temperature too
increase too much for some harddisks
* because it
Currently this bug is filed against acpi-support. acpi-support might be
replaced by pm-utils in the future.
How does https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/pm-utils-
integration relate to this bug ?
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
* (laptop) harddisk firmwares and (laptop) BIOSes might set too aggressive
power management (operating system independent)
* The operating system and the applications running on it might cause too much
unnecessary disk activity (multiple operating systems are affected. at least a
couple of
it seems as though my cycle count is quite high as well (HP Pavilion
ze2308wm) however I have found a setting in the BIOS that may have
solved it. I don't remember the commands to test though. Check you BIOS
settings for a Battery power saver function of some sort. I turned mine
off and have not
duplicate 161239
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu.
--
ubuntu-bugs mailing list
** This bug is no longer a duplicate of bug 17216
Hard drive spindown should be configurable
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
Bugs, which
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 17216 ***
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/17216
pcfabix:
Try rebooting and check if the settings stick around. In general,
Ubuntu_Demon is a great person to listen to on advice, and there are
several threads he has posted into about this particular problem:
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 17216 ***
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/17216
Hi everybody,
I have a VIA Epia board (EX1EG) and a pretty new Western Digital 1
Terabyte WD10EACS drive. I am running Ubuntu 7.04, but I also tested
with 7.10. No laptop mode, no fiddling with ACPI, just
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 17216 ***
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/17216
I have an IBM T23 Laptop with the latest Bios October 2006
Harddrive: Seagate Momentus ST92811A 20GB 5400 RPM ATA-6
My sudo smartctl -d ata -a /dev/sda|grep Hours and even on Battery I was
going up at least a
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 17216 ***
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/17216
I found that when I remove Tracker Search Tool, my increase in count,
which was hyper-ish, drastically reduced.
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 17216 ***
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/17216
Thanks for the info. You might want to post it over on 17216, though.
-b
On Tue, 2007-11-06 at 04:43 +, dimbulb1024 wrote:
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 17216 ***
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 17216 ***
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/17216
Just thought I'd mention that this problem isn't only when running on
battery, on my Toshiba A100 the load unload cycle count is increasing
madly, 30-50 in just 5 minutes.
This really isn't good.
--
High
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 17216 ***
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/17216
I get the following outputs
sudo smartctl --all /dev/sda | grep Load_Cycle_Count
193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032 057 057 000Old_age Always
- 86786
and
sudo smartctl --all /dev/sda | grep
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 17216 ***
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/17216
** Summary changed:
- default value in power.sh potentially kills laptop disks
+ High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 17216 ***
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/17216
You lot only have yourselves to blame.
Please keep in mind the Code of Conduct.
https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct/1.0.1
Kind Regards,
Johnathon
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 17216 ***
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/17216
You lot only have yourselves to blame.
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/59695
You received this bug notification because you are
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 17216 ***
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/17216
Never mind then.
I am fed up with the countless pointless comments on this bug, that's
why it has had no attention.
--
High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime
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