Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

> El sept 7, 2016, a las 4:17 AM, Simos Xenitellis > escribió: > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 3:08 AM, Ryan Cunningham > wrote: >> >> I have heard recently that Ubuntu has plans to cancel support for processors >> in the Intel 80386

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

Ralf Mardorf schreef op 18-09-2016 16:01: with or without 32 bit support. The whole point was that "with or without" is not good enough. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at:

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

My main point simply is, that at the moment 32 bit still is supported for a while by the traditional releases and in the future snaps might replace the kind of releases we are used to, with or without 32 bit support. However, Oli already explains why 32 bit for snaps still is more important. I do

Snappy (Was: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support)

hi, On So, 2016-09-18 at 15:29 +0200, Xen wrote: > Oliver Grawert schreef op 18-09-2016 15:09: > > > > hi, > > On So, 2016-09-18 at 14:14 +0200, Xen wrote: > > > > > >   > > > That won't install Ubuntu onto a 32-bit system, now will it. > > > > it will, and snappy images will actually be

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

Oliver Grawert schreef op 18-09-2016 15:09: hi, On So, 2016-09-18 at 14:14 +0200, Xen wrote:   That won't install Ubuntu onto a 32-bit system, now will it. it will, and snappy images will actually be staying around for 32bit since they target embedded, where you even still see a lot new 32bit

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

hi, On So, 2016-09-18 at 14:14 +0200, Xen wrote: >  > That won't install Ubuntu onto a 32-bit system, now will it. it will, and snappy images will actually be staying around for 32bit since they target embedded, where you even still see a lot new 32bit only devices being produced and where memory

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

Ralf Mardorf schreef op 18-09-2016 7:19: Perhaps the data is already there, but not in the way you wish. Maybe it's a complete step into another direction. It might be just the first step, of other steps, that maybe will follow one after the other. I'm not sure what you are on, or on about...

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

Thierry Andriamirado schreef op 12-09-2016 19:54: I understand that the Ubuntu developers must choose. What is important now is to know that doing advocacy for Linux in developing countries must integrate this 2021 deadline. Late to the ball, but... I think that if you really did the

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Thierry Andriamirado wrote: > > > Le 11 septembre 2016 21:43:03 UTC+03:00, Ralf Mardorf > a écrit : > >>That's entirely true. For users who don't need the user-friendliness >>provided by Ubuntu there are

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

Le 11 septembre 2016 21:43:03 UTC+03:00, Ralf Mardorf a écrit : >That's entirely true. For users who don't need the user-friendliness >provided by Ubuntu there are anyway better distros available to "tune" >weak computers more easily. Anyway, for doing this much

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 1:43 PM, John Moser wrote: > On Sun, 2016-09-11 at 12:52 -0400, Tom H wrote: >> >> I've only read a quarter (or less) of the posts in this thread so I >> don't know how it went from "32-bit ISOs are being deprecated" to >> social and economic

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 12:52:14 -0400, Tom H wrote: >> >> do you really think that this is the best use of ubuntu-devel-discuss@? > > Does somebody need 32 bit support? > > Neither it was me who opened this thread,

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

hi, Am Sonntag, den 11.09.2016, 19:30 +0200 schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 12:52:14 -0400, Tom H wrote: > > > > do you really think that this is the best use of ubuntu-devel- > > discuss@? > Does somebody need 32 bit support? > yes ... as i said in my opening mail, people using

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

Ralf Mardorf wrote: > My apologies, I wanted to say that a kernel without PAE enabled was > dropped. Actually I don't know if any CPU usable with the supported 32 > bit packages, that are i585 or whatever else, are unable to handle > PAE. I'm to lazy to google this ;). There is the AMD Geode

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 20:43:03 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >Taking no account that PAE was dropped a while back My apologies, I wanted to say that a kernel without PAE enabled was dropped. Actually I don't know if any CPU usable with the supported 32 bit packages, that are i585 or whatever else, are

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 13:43:32 -0400, John Moser wrote: >There is no use dragging around a boat anchor just in case you meet >someone who has a boat.  Someone else is already in the business of >making and selling boat anchors. That's entirely true. For users who don't need the user-friendliness

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Sun, 2016-09-11 at 12:52 -0400, Tom H wrote: > On Sun, Sep 11, 2016, Ralf Mardorf > wrote: > > > > > > You are quoting me out of context. The context is that the poor > > can't > > donate new computers and they can't pay for infrastructure, such as > > internet

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 12:52:14 -0400, Tom H wrote: >do you really think that this is the best use of ubuntu-devel-discuss@? Does somebody need 32 bit support? Neither it was me who opened this thread, nor do I need 32 bit support myself. There were just flimsy excuses for dropping 32 bit support,

Re: [OT] Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 12:27:20 -0400, John Moser wrote: >YES THEY NEED TECHNOLOGICAL PROGRESS! I don't argue against this. There's nothing wrong with technological progress per se. To exercise moderation is required regarding consuming by the rich. Btw. Africa is a topic for it's own. Nestlé,

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Sun, Sep 11, 2016, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > You are quoting me out of context. The context is that the poor can't > donate new computers and they can't pay for infrastructure, such as > internet access for everyone. _BUT_ rich people could, they are just > not

[OT] Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Sun, 2016-09-11 at 17:24 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 15:58:44 +0300, Thierry Andriamirado wrote: > > > > Le 10 septembre 2016 20:13:47 UTC+03:00, Ralf Mardorf > > a écrit : > >   > > > > > > It's not the task of the poor to help the poor.

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 15:58:44 +0300, Thierry Andriamirado wrote: >Le 10 septembre 2016 20:13:47 UTC+03:00, Ralf Mardorf > a écrit : > >>It's not the task of the poor to help the poor. > >Of course IT IS! ;) >I'm not so poor compared to many malagasy people, but

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 4:14 AM, Alexandre Strube wrote: > Are you suggesting a full port to Raspberry Pi instead? > The RPi II is one option, and it is not the most affordable one. There are also the Pine64 and the OrangePi developer boards which are way cheaper. Their

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

Le 10 septembre 2016 20:13:47 UTC+03:00, Ralf Mardorf a écrit : >It's not the task of the poor to help the poor. Of course IT IS! ;) I'm not so poor compared to many malagasy people, but being in a poor country, I should be one of the first to raise their hands

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

Le 10 septembre 2016 13:38:17 UTC+03:00, Oliver Grawert >when i was still LTSP and edubuntu upstream i worked very closely with >[1], they actually know what they are doing and make sure to only ship >usable bits ... they ship it to places where people live that would >never be able to achieve

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Wed, 07 Sep 2016 11:11:50 +0200 Oliver Grawert wrote: > archive will still persist for quite some time, there is to much Well as I think this thread has views as an iso tester for lubuntu sometimes LTS point releases feel some of the most crunched for times in testing. If

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

Hi Oli :) let us focus on the things we have in common. IMO you and I do a good job in helping users at Ubuntu users mailing list :). Regarding how often somebody should or should not replace hardware we have different points of view. On Sat, 10 Sep 2016 13:57:14 +0200, Oliver Grawert

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Sat, 10 Sep 2016 12:38:17 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote: >hi, >Am Samstag, den 10.09.2016, 12:05 +0200 schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > >> As already pointed out, recycling or refurbishing for the poor >> already >> is the wrong approach, only using computers for a longer period of >> time >> and

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

hi, Am Samstag, den 10.09.2016, 12:05 +0200 schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > As already pointed out, recycling or refurbishing for the poor > already > is the wrong approach, only using computers for a longer period of > time > and repairing components of computers, instead of replacing them > completely

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Sat, 10 Sep 2016 04:56:02 -0400, JMZ wrote: >On 09/10/2016 04:17 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > >> Technical progress is not the same as human progress. Computer >> progress is just required in a few domains, that are completely >> irrelevant for most computer users, but human kind needs progress,

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On 09/10/2016 04:17 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: Technical progress is not the same as human progress. Computer progress is just required in a few domains, that are completely irrelevant for most computer users, but human kind needs progress, we can't continue our social and ecological misbehaviour

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Sat, 2016-09-10 at 03:55 -0400, JMZ wrote: > On 09/09/2016 06:06 PM, Thierry Andriamirado wrote: > > Le 9 septembre 2016 04:00:12 UTC+03:00, Simos Xenitellis a écrit : > > > > > > Considering that at least until 2021 we will be fine regarding 32- > > > bit support, I think it would be good to

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

Rural SBC clusters might work. A 64-bit multi-core SBC cluster in the mairie? Homes use recycled 32-bit boxes with low RAM and a small hard drive. This will be enough to log into the SBC for data or internet when available. It's okay if the 32-bit kernels are not updated that much. We just

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

Le 9 septembre 2016 04:00:12 UTC+03:00, Simos Xenitellis a écrit : >Considering that at least until 2021 we will be fine regarding 32-bit >support, >I think it would be good to gradually get people to switch to >small-board computers. Right. >These are nowdays

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

Are you suggesting a full port to Raspberry Pi instead? 2016-09-09 3:00 GMT+02:00 Simos Xenitellis : > On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Thierry Andriamirado > wrote: > > > > > > Le 8 septembre 2016 01:35:05 UTC+03:00, John Moser < >

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Thierry Andriamirado wrote: > > > Le 8 septembre 2016 01:35:05 UTC+03:00, John Moser a > écrit : >> >>> There are countless very old computers running Ubuntu, in Developing >>> Countries. >>> >> >>It's not my

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Thu, 2016-09-08 at 18:10 +0300, Thierry Andriamirado wrote: > > Le 8 septembre 2016 01:35:05 UTC+03:00, John Moser l.com> a écrit : > > > > > > > > > > There are countless very old computers running Ubuntu, in > > > Developing > > > Countries. > > > > > It's not my

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

Le 8 septembre 2016 01:35:05 UTC+03:00, John Moser a écrit : > >> There are countless very old computers running Ubuntu, in Developing >> Countries. >> > >It's not my fault nobody counted. It's nobody's fault: many of those Ubuntu boxes are used in villages in the

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Wed, 7 Sep 2016 15:04:21 -0700, Brendan Perrine wrote: >I have a computer that I have only had for a little more than 2 years >that already has more than 10,000 powered on hours on two disks >granted these are newer than pata disks As already pointed out, HDDs suffer from spinning down and up,

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Wed, 2016-09-07 at 15:54 +0300, Thierry Andriamirado wrote: > > Le 7 septembre 2016 04:58:44 UTC+03:00, John Moser l.com> a écrit : > > > > > > that context are uncommon by nature.  That in an of itself seems to > > warrant a project specially dedicated to e-waste reuse

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Wed, 7 Sep 2016 14:17:25 +0300 Simos Xenitellis wrote: > The "Raw Value" is the number of hours. The maximum I ever saw on a I have a computer that I have only had for a little more than 2 years that already has more than 10,000 powered on hours on two disks

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

Hi, On 7 September 2016 at 12:17, Simos Xenitellis wrote: > The mechanical harddisk should be a PATA (that is, IDE and not SATA), > meaning that it is not replaceable with a new disk; PATA disks are not > manufactured any more. A minor point, but there's a company

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

Le 7 septembre 2016 14:17:25 UTC+03:00, Simos Xenitellis a écrit : >I am not addressing your request, I am focusing on the practicalities >of maintaining an old laptop as a server. >I assume your laptop was made around the year 2000-2003 because the >CPU is Intel

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

Le 7 septembre 2016 04:58:44 UTC+03:00, John Moser a écrit : > >that context are uncommon by nature.  That in an of itself seems to >warrant a project specially dedicated to e-waste reuse programs, rather >than a best-effort and costly nod to the concept of older

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Wed, 7 Sep 2016 14:17:25 +0300, Simos Xenitellis wrote: >By using the laptop as a server, it is always on. This causes issues >with the mechanical hard disk that would limit its lifespan. JFTR spinning a HDD down and up shortens the lifespan much more than continuous operation. --

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Wed, 7 Sep 2016 13:08:12 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >On Tue, 6 Sep 2016 22:15:40 -0400, JMZ wrote: >>Wow, thanks John. Your intensive explanation of e-waste and its >>impact on the environment and human labor is very enlightening. > >But it's a lie, completely wrong, ignoring what should

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 3:08 AM, Ryan Cunningham wrote: > > I have heard recently that Ubuntu has plans to cancel support for processors > in the Intel 80386 family (and clones of the same). This is impacting me > because I have a 32-bit Ubuntu machine (powered by

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Tue, 6 Sep 2016 22:15:40 -0400, JMZ wrote: >Wow, thanks John. Your intensive explanation of e-waste and its >impact on the environment and human labor is very enlightening. But it's a lie, completely wrong, ignoring what should be done in the first place! -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Tue, 06 Sep 2016 21:58:44 -0400, John Moser wrote: >Collecting, inventorying, and preparing e-waste as a >refurbished good incurs more labor per unit than rolling new units off >an assembly line That's evil bullshit! If we simply use our own computers for a very long period of time, instead to

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

hi, Am Mittwoch, den 07.09.2016, 02:43 +0200 schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > On Tue, 6 Sep 2016 17:08:30 -0700, Ryan Cunningham wrote: > > > > I have heard recently that Ubuntu has plans to cancel support for > > processors in the Intel 80386 family (and clones of the same). > Hi, > > I'm not a

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On 7 Sep 2016 1:09 a.m., "Ryan Cunningham" wrote: > > [The following message is a re-post from an aborted message thread originally sent to .] > > Attn. Ubuntu Developers: > > I have heard recently that Ubuntu has plans to cancel

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On 09/06/2016 09:58 PM, John Moser wrote: Is this even worth the resources? There are multiple issues here, most obvious being the distinction between a current-generation operating system (Ubuntu) and a special-purpose software project (to target legacy hardware). Is legacy 32-bit support

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Tue, 2016-09-06 at 21:33 -0400, JMZ wrote: > Hi Ryan, > > When you say "Ubuntu 16.10" I wonder if you mean that you are > running  > gnome with the unity shell or just the command line only. Running any > of  > the graphical enviroments (save maybe lxde) on a 80586 would be > pretty  >

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

Hi Ryan, When you say "Ubuntu 16.10" I wonder if you mean that you are running gnome with the unity shell or just the command line only. Running any of the graphical enviroments (save maybe lxde) on a 80586 would be pretty exceptional. I agree somewhat that 80586 single core processor

Re: My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

On Tue, 6 Sep 2016 17:08:30 -0700, Ryan Cunningham wrote: >I have heard recently that Ubuntu has plans to cancel support for >processors in the Intel 80386 family (and clones of the same). Hi, I'm not a developer. However, already 3 years ago i386 support was removed from Linux 3.8. I guess you

My opinion on Ubuntu cancelling Intel 80386/80386-clone processor support

[The following message is a re-post from an aborted message thread originally sent to .] Attn. Ubuntu Developers: I have heard recently that Ubuntu has plans to cancel support for processors in the Intel 80386 family (and clones of the same). This is impacting me