Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Video conferencing - was... something else

[lukefromdc]

One other thing you should check before committing to any kind of
video conferencing is that all intended participants have the bandwidth 
for it, as those without landlines might not.

On 7/10/2016 at 4:57 PM, "Len Ovens"  wrote:
>
>On Sun, 10 Jul 2016, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
>
>> Yes, Google has issues-but if that led to ad networks using 
>Ubuntustudio 
>> instead of Windows
>> to make their ads, or to the NSA using UbuntuStudio to make 
>their 
>> presentations to politicans
>> I don't see how that would harm the project.
>
>:) I like that.
>
>Google hangouts doesn't bother me... no video anyway. I am still 
>not sure 
>what a video conference does that email/irc does not. Being able 
>to to see 
>the "whites of their eyes" is a boss thing, not generally someone 
>who 
>actually does some work... in my experience. But maybe I am being 
>grumpy.
>
>--
>Len Ovens
>www.ovenwerks.net
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[lukefromdc]

There is one limitation to "If the community prefers to use Google Hangouts, it 
would be highly 
counterproductive if you did not, particularly if you are a involved in the 
work being discussed."
That is that some people do not have Google accounts and in fact some people 
cannot make
them due to the "real names" policy and the Google policy of asking for SMS 
verification in
cases where they don't like the browser, the IP address, or think the personal 
information isn't
someone's real name. 

That may not apply if all those who would be actually participating in the 
discussion already
have Google accounts, but would apply to a discussion including one or more 
persons who 
do not have or want Google accounts for other reasons, or simply cannot make 
them. That's
not a matter of whether or not to oppose non-free services, but rather a matter 
of picking
a communications method that is physically usable by all participants. 

This is not about me, as most of my work these days is on MATE plus testing 
kdenlive git.
Don't worry about me not being on Google. Instead my advice is to  figure out 
if all the folks 
who would be using the  "hangout" already have accounts or not and go forward 
from there. 

Yes, Google has issues-but if that led to ad networks using Ubuntustudio 
instead of Windows
to make their ads, or to the NSA using UbuntuStudio to make their presentations 
to politicans
I don't see how that would harm the project.

On 7/10/2016 at 6:42 AM, "Kaj Ailomaa"  wrote:
>
>On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, at 12:13 PM, Set Hallstrom wrote:
>> On 2016-07-10 11:48, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
>> > It would evidently exclude one person - the project lead, who 
>is not
>> > ready to be flexible enough to meet the needs of the rest of 
>the team.
>> 
>> I'm affraid it is not up to you to decide. And i find it 
>ironcial that
>> you of all past project leads invoke flexibility.
>> 
>> But sure, set up a vote: Who is the villain that should be 
>fired? Good
>> Ubuntu Studio spirit my friend.
>
>Not sure what you are talking about here. So, I will not comment on
>this.
>
>Also, though I can agree that I'm overly harsh with my words (as I 
>so
>often am), I would still rather focus on the issue at hand. Which 
>is
>about Google Hangouts.
>
>So, let me say this one last thing about the discussion whether we
>should or should not use Google Hangouts.
>
>1. Ubuntu Studio does not have a policy for/against Google 
>services.
>Historically we have used them plenty. So, historically it is 
>something
>we use. This means, though it is not in writing we actually do 
>have a
>policy for using Google services.
>2. It is your personal opinion that we should not use Google 
>Hangouts.
>If you prefer not to use them, start a discussion about it, and 
>see who
>is for/against. Since, in fact, it is no one who chooses that but 
>the
>community.
>3. If the community prefers to use Google Hangouts, it would be 
>highly
>counterproductive if you did not, particularly if you are a 
>involved in
>the work being discussed. And, you already knew coming to Ubuntu 
>Studio
>that we are not a political movement against non-free services 
>(where
>Google Hangouts can hardly be deemed as a threat against free and 
>open
>communication, rather the opposite). So, logic dictates that you 
>should
>use the services if the community wishes it.
>
>Jimmy knew this, out of experience. So, naturally, he would suggest
>using something like Google Hangouts for live communication.
>
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Ubuntu Studio policy - Was: Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Kaj Ailomaa]

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, at 01:14 PM, Set Hallstrom wrote:
> On 2016-07-10 12:42, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
> 
> >
> > So, let me say this one last thing about the discussion whether we
> > should or should not use Google Hangouts.
> >
> 
> This has _nothing_ to do with google hangouts. This is about an inactive
> member, spreading confusion to a 3rd part, insulting a fellow
> team-member for the 3rd and last time, and as you can read bellow, using
> team resources to push a freelance IT-consultation agenda for free as in
> beer.
> 

I truly hope no one takes any at all influence from these ludicrous
claims.

And, I would encourage others to share their opinions about this subject
- if not on list, then at least directly to Set, because this has really
gotten way out of hand and I don't feel like I have anything
constructive to add to this "subject" myself.

Though I'm sure I'm partly guilty to it, the wording in some posts here
are not suitable for this list (much of it is in direct violation of
Ubuntu mail list policy, in fact), so we should really think about where
we want to go from here as far as team communication goes.

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Ubuntu Studio policy - Was: Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2016 06:39:37 -0400, Jimmy Sjölund wrote:
>I will now unsubscribe from the mailing list as well and keep out of
>any further discussions.

Hi,

please allow me to toss in another topic. IOW it's _not_ related to the
team member discussion, but IMO important related to the community
attitude.

The Ubuntu Studio users mailing list [1] needs more experienced
users, with knowledge about default Ubuntu Studio installs.

Since team members have much work with maintaining the flavour, they
are not always fast with providing well founded help, to requests sent
to the users list.

I'm an experienced Linux user, but my installs are tailored Arch and
Ubuntu installs, so I can't help much in terms of Ubuntu Studio default
installs.

By happenstance there is such a request at the moment. I'm sure that
somebody familiar with a default Ubuntu Studio install could help [2].

Now a modest opinion that is related to your discussion, but also
related to the topic regarding the users list.

The OP of the thread "Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in
Partnering with New England Conservatory?" chose the devel list for
good reasons. However, after the clarification about Ubuntu Studio and
Cannonical, moving the thread to the users mailing list, would have been
a good step to guard against misunderstandings and additionally there
would be more traffic at the not that active users mailing list.

Too funny, by accident I send a request first to Ubuntu devel instead
of Ubuntu Studio devel and then I accidentally sent it to Ubuntu Studio
users, instead of Ubuntun Studio devel. Fortunately it fits better to
Ubuntu Studio users, than to the devel list.

Regards,
Ralf

[1]
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users

[2]
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-users/2016-July/010803.html

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Ubuntu Studio policy - Was: Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Set Hallstrom]

On 2016-07-10 12:42, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:

>
> So, let me say this one last thing about the discussion whether we
> should or should not use Google Hangouts.
>

This has _nothing_ to do with google hangouts. This is about an inactive
member, spreading confusion to a 3rd part, insulting a fellow
team-member for the 3rd and last time, and as you can read bellow, using
team resources to push a freelance IT-consultation agenda for free as in
beer.


On 2016-07-10 12:39, Jimmy Sjölund wrote:

> The plan was to offer an opportunity for the OP to talk with someone with:
> 
> * 22 years experience of digital audio in corporate and educational
> environments
> * 16 years experience of Linux and open source environments
> * 10 years experience of Ubuntu Studio
> * 5 years experience of open source community work
> * large scale implementation projects rolling out open source environments
> * small and large scale implementation projects of replacing Windows
> with open source alternatives
> 
> From there, figure out what their goals were, what problems to solve,
> the current environment and alternate solutions. This is what I do for a
> living and have been doing since the 90s so I figured I might have some
> insights to share, for free. The solution wouldn't necessarily be Ubuntu
> Studio, without knowing what the needs are it's too early to propose
> solutions. All issues are not connected to Canonical, Ubuntu or even
> open source.
> 
> I won't bother commenting on other parts in earlier emails. I recommend
> reading Jono Bacon's book "The Art of Community" and Jim Whitehurst's
> "The Open Organization".
> 
> I will now unsubscribe from the mailing list as well and keep out of any
> further discussions.
> 
> /Jimmy
> 
> 

Thank you for your suggestion and for revealing your intentions
publicly. I knew you wouldn't just drop your subscription before making
sure you had succeeder in generating a little drama, so i can only blame
myself: i really should have just ignored you, since as far as i can
remember, you tend to "hit and run" the team as you eloquently put
yourself, whenever there is controversy or polemic around. Yes, you've
made this into a personal issue, i am sorry about it, but i am human
too, with all the weakness that implies.

Peace yo!


-- 
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Kaj Ailomaa]

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, at 12:13 PM, Set Hallstrom wrote:
> On 2016-07-10 11:48, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
> > It would evidently exclude one person - the project lead, who is not
> > ready to be flexible enough to meet the needs of the rest of the team.
> 
> I'm affraid it is not up to you to decide. And i find it ironcial that
> you of all past project leads invoke flexibility.
> 
> But sure, set up a vote: Who is the villain that should be fired? Good
> Ubuntu Studio spirit my friend.

Not sure what you are talking about here. So, I will not comment on
this.

Also, though I can agree that I'm overly harsh with my words (as I so
often am), I would still rather focus on the issue at hand. Which is
about Google Hangouts.

So, let me say this one last thing about the discussion whether we
should or should not use Google Hangouts.

1. Ubuntu Studio does not have a policy for/against Google services.
Historically we have used them plenty. So, historically it is something
we use. This means, though it is not in writing we actually do have a
policy for using Google services.
2. It is your personal opinion that we should not use Google Hangouts.
If you prefer not to use them, start a discussion about it, and see who
is for/against. Since, in fact, it is no one who chooses that but the
community.
3. If the community prefers to use Google Hangouts, it would be highly
counterproductive if you did not, particularly if you are a involved in
the work being discussed. And, you already knew coming to Ubuntu Studio
that we are not a political movement against non-free services (where
Google Hangouts can hardly be deemed as a threat against free and open
communication, rather the opposite). So, logic dictates that you should
use the services if the community wishes it.

Jimmy knew this, out of experience. So, naturally, he would suggest
using something like Google Hangouts for live communication.

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Ubuntu Studio policy - Was: Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Jimmy Sjölund]

 Original Message 

Subject: Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in 
Partnering with New England Conservatory?
Local Time: July 10, 2016 12:13 PM
UTC Time: July 10, 2016 10:13 AM
From: s...@ubuntustudio.org
To: ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com

What was the good plan? Video conference with an inactive memeber? To
talk about issues only canonical can resolve... please...

The plan was to offer an opportunity for the OP to talk with someone with:

* 22 years experience of digital audio in corporate and educational environments
* 16 years experience of Linux and open source environments
* 10 years experience of Ubuntu Studio
* 5 years experience of open source community work
* large scale implementation projects rolling out open source environments
* small and large scale implementation projects of replacing Windows with open 
source alternatives

From there, figure out what their goals were, what problems to solve, the 
current environment and alternate solutions. This is what I do for a living and 
have been doing since the 90s so I figured I might have some insights to share, 
for free. The solution wouldn't necessarily be Ubuntu Studio, without knowing 
what the needs are it's too early to propose solutions. All issues are not 
connected to Canonical, Ubuntu or even open source.

I won't bother commenting on other parts in earlier emails. I recommend reading 
Jono Bacon's book "The Art of Community" and Jim Whitehurst's "The Open 
Organization".

I will now unsubscribe from the mailing list as well and keep out of any 
further discussions.

/Jimmy-- 
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Set Hallstrom]

On 2016-07-10 11:48, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, at 11:34 AM, Set Hallstrom wrote:
>> On 2016-07-10 11:10, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
>>> Just want to mention a couple of things.
>>>
>>> The way this communication was handled here has led to that Jimmy left
>>> our team, which is a bad thing (Jimmy, me and Len are the oldest active
>>> members of this community, currently).
>>>
>>> Jimmy takes an initiative, but instead of being encouraged he is stopped
>>> by something clearly unimportant in this particular situation.
>>
>> Ok, he took an initiative, and formulated it as an initiative on behalf
>> of the group. It was a miscommunication, ok, we get that now.
>>
>> Why not just correct the shot instead of tacitly call a fellow team-mate
>> narrowminded contraproductive.
> 
> Perhaps your own words describe it best. Or, if I rewrite it to
> "narrowmindedly counterproductive".
> 
> At least, it is clear that you are very stubborn and not ready to back
> one inch from your original position - which in itself is not the Ubuntu
> Studio position, but your own personal position. You don't actually
> promote discussion. Just that you are prepared to fire more words at it,
> if someone is ready to listen to them - since you clearly are not ready
> to reevaluate your role in this project and what the project is actually
> about.

Sure, flaming someone up publicly like you do now is a good way to make
someone back down. FTR, i've expressed countless of times that i came to
understand that jimmy did NOT talk on behalf of a group. The only one
who took things personaly in this case is Jimmy. However, since you now
make this your own personal issue publicly: if anyone has a record in
bad conflict-management enabling them to be judgemental about this kind
of attitude, i don't think it is you, zequence.

> 
>>
>>>
>>> Using Google Hangouts for live communication would in no way mean Ubuntu
>>> Studio is promoting Google - just that a few people would be using a
>>> very simple solution for live communication. If Set feels other tools
>>> would be better, and simple enough to set up, he can always work out the
>>> solution and present it as an alternative, once he has done so.
>>
>> No, it was jimmy's initiative. If HE wants to help with video HE should
>> set up a sollution for video conference. Using hangouts or skype would
>> exclude major part of the team from taking part.
> 
> It would evidently exclude one person - the project lead, who is not
> ready to be flexible enough to meet the needs of the rest of the team.

I'm affraid it is not up to you to decide. And i find it ironcial that
you of all past project leads invoke flexibility.

But sure, set up a vote: Who is the villain that should be fired? Good
Ubuntu Studio spirit my friend.

> 
>>
>> And like i said MANY times, i don't care what jimmy does in his
>> freetime. However, being a member of the team, if jimmy writes "we" to a
>> 3rd part in the context of this list then he has to assume to be read as
>> taking an initiative on behlaf of the group. This is basic
>> communciation. Had that mail of his been sent off-list directly to Devin
>> nothing of this would have been necessary. There was already clear signs
>> of confusion in the discussion regarding what the team could do for NEC
>> or not, i felt Jimmy's freelance shot had the potential to build uppon
>> that confusion and corrected that.
>>
>> Believe it or not, i have regards concerning Jimmy. I do enjoy him as a
>> person. But this drama number has severely affected me personaly and the
>> way i perceive him. Trying to look back i wonder what he has done, but i
>> sure know it is the 3rd time he calls me out for being a conservative
>> freesoftware extremist. And Last time someone slammed the door on me
>> over a simple disagreement, i was a teenager.
>>
>>>
>>> Our work is to promote Ubuntu Studio, which in itself is not 100% free
>>> software, so having zero tolerance to non-free software in combination
>>> with Ubuntu Studio is hypocrisy. It is not up to us who uses free
>>> software, and we couldn't provide a 100% free software solution anyway
>>> already because of the kernel. If someone wants to use a completely free
>>> solution Ubuntu Studio is not the right choice - neither for the user or
>>> the developer. It's just an impossibility.
>>> That said, we do promote free software. And we do that through Ubuntu
>>> Studio, which is where the focus should be. Using non free services in
>>> order to reach as many people as possible is unfortunate, but it is also
>>> the best way to do that in this moment. Not using those services will
>>> just add barriers where there already are too many barriers, in order
>>> for people to discover the free software world.
>>>
>>> We are not crusading against Google, Facebook, or any other such
>>> services. We are not *against* non-free software, in fact. But, we are
>>> *for* free software. It's a big difference.
>>
>> Exactly, we are FOR free 

[ubuntu-studio-devel] Ubuntu Studio policy - Was: Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Ralf Mardorf]

Hi,

I don't want to chime in. Please, consider to continue your discussion
by this new thread or another new thread, instead of continuing this
discussion within the thread "Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in
Partnering with New England Conservatory?". There are good reasons to
continue this discussion within this mailing list or off-list, but it's
not good to continue within the original thread.

2 Cents,
Ralf

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Kaj Ailomaa]

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, at 11:34 AM, Set Hallstrom wrote:
> On 2016-07-10 11:10, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
> > Just want to mention a couple of things.
> > 
> > The way this communication was handled here has led to that Jimmy left
> > our team, which is a bad thing (Jimmy, me and Len are the oldest active
> > members of this community, currently).
> > 
> > Jimmy takes an initiative, but instead of being encouraged he is stopped
> > by something clearly unimportant in this particular situation.
> 
> Ok, he took an initiative, and formulated it as an initiative on behalf
> of the group. It was a miscommunication, ok, we get that now.
> 
> Why not just correct the shot instead of tacitly call a fellow team-mate
> narrowminded contraproductive.

Perhaps your own words describe it best. Or, if I rewrite it to
"narrowmindedly counterproductive".

At least, it is clear that you are very stubborn and not ready to back
one inch from your original position - which in itself is not the Ubuntu
Studio position, but your own personal position. You don't actually
promote discussion. Just that you are prepared to fire more words at it,
if someone is ready to listen to them - since you clearly are not ready
to reevaluate your role in this project and what the project is actually
about.

> 
> > 
> > Using Google Hangouts for live communication would in no way mean Ubuntu
> > Studio is promoting Google - just that a few people would be using a
> > very simple solution for live communication. If Set feels other tools
> > would be better, and simple enough to set up, he can always work out the
> > solution and present it as an alternative, once he has done so.
> 
> No, it was jimmy's initiative. If HE wants to help with video HE should
> set up a sollution for video conference. Using hangouts or skype would
> exclude major part of the team from taking part.

It would evidently exclude one person - the project lead, who is not
ready to be flexible enough to meet the needs of the rest of the team.

> 
> And like i said MANY times, i don't care what jimmy does in his
> freetime. However, being a member of the team, if jimmy writes "we" to a
> 3rd part in the context of this list then he has to assume to be read as
> taking an initiative on behlaf of the group. This is basic
> communciation. Had that mail of his been sent off-list directly to Devin
> nothing of this would have been necessary. There was already clear signs
> of confusion in the discussion regarding what the team could do for NEC
> or not, i felt Jimmy's freelance shot had the potential to build uppon
> that confusion and corrected that.
> 
> Believe it or not, i have regards concerning Jimmy. I do enjoy him as a
> person. But this drama number has severely affected me personaly and the
> way i perceive him. Trying to look back i wonder what he has done, but i
> sure know it is the 3rd time he calls me out for being a conservative
> freesoftware extremist. And Last time someone slammed the door on me
> over a simple disagreement, i was a teenager.
> 
> > 
> > Our work is to promote Ubuntu Studio, which in itself is not 100% free
> > software, so having zero tolerance to non-free software in combination
> > with Ubuntu Studio is hypocrisy. It is not up to us who uses free
> > software, and we couldn't provide a 100% free software solution anyway
> > already because of the kernel. If someone wants to use a completely free
> > solution Ubuntu Studio is not the right choice - neither for the user or
> > the developer. It's just an impossibility.
> > That said, we do promote free software. And we do that through Ubuntu
> > Studio, which is where the focus should be. Using non free services in
> > order to reach as many people as possible is unfortunate, but it is also
> > the best way to do that in this moment. Not using those services will
> > just add barriers where there already are too many barriers, in order
> > for people to discover the free software world.
> > 
> > We are not crusading against Google, Facebook, or any other such
> > services. We are not *against* non-free software, in fact. But, we are
> > *for* free software. It's a big difference.
> 
> Exactly, we are FOR free software. That means we should first look for
> freesoftware alternatives. If you come with a plan, than make it happen.
> 

There was already a good plan. But, there was only one person in the
team who was against it, and it was you.

> Now i understand Jimmy did NOT speak on behalf of the group. Why is
> that? Maybe he hasn't felt like a member for a long time? I don't know,
> i can just speculate. His departue sure is a loss, and i wish things
> would have worked out differently. But they didn't. I understand you
> stand up for your buddy, but reviving this discussion is not going to
> sort anything out.
> 
> If anyone has a problem with with my attitude in this discussion and
> think there is something i should learn, i welcome them to bring it up
> with either me or jimmy off-list.
> 
> 

Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Set Hallstrom]

On 2016-07-10 11:10, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
> Just want to mention a couple of things.
> 
> The way this communication was handled here has led to that Jimmy left
> our team, which is a bad thing (Jimmy, me and Len are the oldest active
> members of this community, currently).
> 
> Jimmy takes an initiative, but instead of being encouraged he is stopped
> by something clearly unimportant in this particular situation.

Ok, he took an initiative, and formulated it as an initiative on behalf
of the group. It was a miscommunication, ok, we get that now.

Why not just correct the shot instead of tacitly call a fellow team-mate
narrowminded contraproductive.

> 
> Using Google Hangouts for live communication would in no way mean Ubuntu
> Studio is promoting Google - just that a few people would be using a
> very simple solution for live communication. If Set feels other tools
> would be better, and simple enough to set up, he can always work out the
> solution and present it as an alternative, once he has done so.

No, it was jimmy's initiative. If HE wants to help with video HE should
set up a sollution for video conference. Using hangouts or skype would
exclude major part of the team from taking part.

And like i said MANY times, i don't care what jimmy does in his
freetime. However, being a member of the team, if jimmy writes "we" to a
3rd part in the context of this list then he has to assume to be read as
taking an initiative on behlaf of the group. This is basic
communciation. Had that mail of his been sent off-list directly to Devin
nothing of this would have been necessary. There was already clear signs
of confusion in the discussion regarding what the team could do for NEC
or not, i felt Jimmy's freelance shot had the potential to build uppon
that confusion and corrected that.

Believe it or not, i have regards concerning Jimmy. I do enjoy him as a
person. But this drama number has severely affected me personaly and the
way i perceive him. Trying to look back i wonder what he has done, but i
sure know it is the 3rd time he calls me out for being a conservative
freesoftware extremist. And Last time someone slammed the door on me
over a simple disagreement, i was a teenager.

> 
> Our work is to promote Ubuntu Studio, which in itself is not 100% free
> software, so having zero tolerance to non-free software in combination
> with Ubuntu Studio is hypocrisy. It is not up to us who uses free
> software, and we couldn't provide a 100% free software solution anyway
> already because of the kernel. If someone wants to use a completely free
> solution Ubuntu Studio is not the right choice - neither for the user or
> the developer. It's just an impossibility.
> That said, we do promote free software. And we do that through Ubuntu
> Studio, which is where the focus should be. Using non free services in
> order to reach as many people as possible is unfortunate, but it is also
> the best way to do that in this moment. Not using those services will
> just add barriers where there already are too many barriers, in order
> for people to discover the free software world.
> 
> We are not crusading against Google, Facebook, or any other such
> services. We are not *against* non-free software, in fact. But, we are
> *for* free software. It's a big difference.

Exactly, we are FOR free software. That means we should first look for
freesoftware alternatives. If you come with a plan, than make it happen.

Now i understand Jimmy did NOT speak on behalf of the group. Why is
that? Maybe he hasn't felt like a member for a long time? I don't know,
i can just speculate. His departue sure is a loss, and i wish things
would have worked out differently. But they didn't. I understand you
stand up for your buddy, but reviving this discussion is not going to
sort anything out.

If anyone has a problem with with my attitude in this discussion and
think there is something i should learn, i welcome them to bring it up
with either me or jimmy off-list.

Thank you.


-- 
Set Hallstrom aka sakrecoer



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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Kaj Ailomaa]

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016, at 11:10 AM, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
> Just want to mention a couple of things.
> 
> The way this communication was handled here has led to that Jimmy left
> our team, which is a bad thing (Jimmy, me and Len are the oldest active
> members of this community, currently).
> 

..though I'm sure Jimmy has probably pondered about quitting before (I
can't really speak for Jimmy), and I should not put the entire blame on
this discussion.

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Would Ubuntu Studio Team be Interested in Partnering with New England Conservatory?

[Kaj Ailomaa]

Just want to mention a couple of things.

The way this communication was handled here has led to that Jimmy left
our team, which is a bad thing (Jimmy, me and Len are the oldest active
members of this community, currently).

Jimmy takes an initiative, but instead of being encouraged he is stopped
by something clearly unimportant in this particular situation.

Using Google Hangouts for live communication would in no way mean Ubuntu
Studio is promoting Google - just that a few people would be using a
very simple solution for live communication. If Set feels other tools
would be better, and simple enough to set up, he can always work out the
solution and present it as an alternative, once he has done so.

Our work is to promote Ubuntu Studio, which in itself is not 100% free
software, so having zero tolerance to non-free software in combination
with Ubuntu Studio is hypocrisy. It is not up to us who uses free
software, and we couldn't provide a 100% free software solution anyway
already because of the kernel. If someone wants to use a completely free
solution Ubuntu Studio is not the right choice - neither for the user or
the developer. It's just an impossibility.
That said, we do promote free software. And we do that through Ubuntu
Studio, which is where the focus should be. Using non free services in
order to reach as many people as possible is unfortunate, but it is also
the best way to do that in this moment. Not using those services will
just add barriers where there already are too many barriers, in order
for people to discover the free software world.

We are not crusading against Google, Facebook, or any other such
services. We are not *against* non-free software, in fact. But, we are
*for* free software. It's a big difference.

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Leaving the community

[Kaj Ailomaa]

On Sat, Jul 9, 2016, at 04:56 PM, Jimmy Sjölund wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> as most of you already know I've been having a hard time to put in much
> time in the project. It's more or less some hit'n'run the last years. In
> that aspect and others which I will not dwell upon I've decided to leave
> the community. It's been fun and educational. I've met great people both
> in real life and online!
> 
> Other than that, take care! And you know where to find me if you want to
> stay in touch.
> 
> Cheers
> Jimmy

It's been great to have you, Jimmy! You've always been a positive force
for this project!

See you around :)

/Kaj

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