Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] i386 architecture will be dropped starting with eoan (Ubuntu 19.10)
That may be practical in the US and Europe, but far less practical for say, an activist media maker in a Rio favela opposing Bolsonaro's efforts to "cleanse" the city of the poor. S/he might be limited to the hardware on hand, and an upgrade requirement will be translated into a change distro or don't update software requirement. Not everyone has even a single penny to spend on replacing equipment that may still function as it did when new. Just because fat-pig ad supported websites full of tracking and fingerprinting scripts have moved on doesn't mean everyone has to. On 6/27/2019 at 10:44 PM, "Kris Komar" wrote:It’s time to move on. Having 1GB of RAM is no longer acceptable in computing today. We need to move forward. You could have argued that point in 2010 to some success but it’s 2019. 2019! They will need to upgrade. On Jun 21, 2019, at 9:33 AM, Luigino Bracci wrote: I also disagree with this decision. In my country, there is A LOT of hardware (minilaptops, old computers) with just 1 GB of RAM; those computers have 64-bit CPUs, but we recommend installing 32-bit distros on them, because the performance of a 64-bit distribution in 1 GB of RAM is disappointing; it's too slow because applications compiled for 64-bit eat more memory. Most people just can't pay the RAM upgrade to 2 GB or 4 GB (that upgrade costs one month of sallary in many countries). GNU/Linux is the natural option in developing countries. The government of my country gave 2,6 millions of minilaptops to children in the last 8 years, all with 1 GB of RAM and a Debian-based 32-bit Linux distro. I apologize for the rudeness of what I'm going to say, but stop creating 32-bit distributions is a decision that seems taken by people living in New York, having computers with 16 GB of RAM and 1 TB SSDs, and believing that the rest of the world lives like them. Regards. El vie., 21 de jun. de 2019 a la(s) 10:53, Erich Eickmeyer (er...@ericheickmeyer.com) escribió: Hello Steve, >Last year, the Ubuntu developer community considered the question of whether >to continue carrying forward the i386 architecture in the Ubuntu archive for >future releases.[1] The discussion at the time was inconclusive, but in >light of the strong possibility that we might not include i386 as a release >architecture in 20.04 LTS, we took the proactive step to disable upgrades >from 18.04 to 18.10 for i386 systems[2], to avoid accidentally stranding >users on an interim release with 9 months of support instead of letting them >continue to run Ubuntu 18.04 LTS with its 5 years of standard support. > >In February of this year, I also posted to communicate the timeline in which >we would take a final decision about i386 support in 20.04 LTS[3], namely, >that we would decide in the middle of 2019. > >The middle of 2019 has now arrived. The Ubuntu engineering team has >reviewed the facts before us and concluded that we should not continue to >carry i386 forward as an architecture. Consequently, i386 will not be >included as an architecture for the 19.10 release, and we will shortly begin >the process of disabling it for the eoan series across Ubuntu >infrastructure. > >While this means we will not provide 32-bit builds of new upstream versions >of libraries, there are a number of ways that 32-bit applications can >continue to be made available to users of later Ubuntu releases, as detailed >in [4]. We will be working to polish the 32-bit support story over the >course of the 19.10 development cycle. To follow the evolution of this >support, you can participate in the discourse thread at [5]. > >[1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040310.html >[2] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/1:18.10.10 >[3] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2019-February/040598.html >[4] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040348.html >[5] https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/i386-architecture-will-be-dropped-starting-with-eoan-ubuntu-19-10/11263/2 It took me a while to reach this decision, but I believe my response is in order. I really wish the flavor leads had been consulted prior to this decision being made. You yourself even sponsored a package back in March that is directly affected by this decision. One of the biggest features of Carla being in the repositories is that it allows a WINE Bridge for Windows-based VST plugins, the vast majority of which are STILL compiled in 32-bit. Without 32-bit support, this feature is dead. This makes converting to Ubuntu Studio from Windows especially hard on those who rely on Windows VST plugins, the vast majority for which there is no Linux alternative. If this WINE bridge disappears due to this decision, so does a large part of our user base. We're talking a huge chunk of professional recording studios and artists that would rather not be running Windows. I understand this decision has been made, but with my
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] i386 architecture will be dropped starting with eoan (Ubuntu 19.10)
It may take a while for New York City's used electronics to percolate down to thefavelas in Rio or back streets in San Salvador, and longer yet to rural Africaand other places will a smaller population of migrants to the US who can sendstuff home. As a practical matter this may mean using older versions of distros, which oftenperform better on old hardware anyway. At an extreme case, a Pentium 3 or aslightly faster (for some code) first-gen Atom netbook that ran very well on Ubuntu Jaunty (9.10) might be a snail on any current distro. A limiting factoris that many modern websites have so much javascript as to slow these machinesto a crawl as the JS garbage collector runs up against memory limits. Blocking JSand blocking ads (esepcially video ads) is compulsory to run these machines onmany sites, Now sites like Twitter disable loading with JS turned off, making thisproblem even worse. I don't know anything about Facebook, I keep them blocked. Problem with rolling back to something like Jaunty (and thus fully supporting the oldvideo cards etc) is that you don't get codec support for any recent videos, includingones the CPU is damned well able to play. Those old netbooks with exactly the rightcode can just barely play 30fps 720p video so long as they are not asked to play itin a browser. That's running something like an IceWM session. They can still do it, but not at the same time as running anything else. Most have only 1GB of RAM anduse about 10w for the whole system. Millions were considered obsolete as peopleflocked to Apple's walled gardens and Google's spyware in phones and tablets. On 6/21/2019 at 4:24 PM, "Ralf Mardorf" wrote:On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 11:33:53 -0400, Luigino Bracci wrote: >I apologize for the rudeness of what I'm going to say, but stop >creating 32-bit distributions is a decision that seems taken by people >living in New York, having computers with 16 GB of RAM and 1 TB SSDs, >and believing that the rest of the world lives like them. Hi, to put it in a nutshell, EOL of 18.04 LTS is April 2028, you shouldn't expect that a lot of i386 or even other 32-bit architecture could be artificially maintained much longer. To some extend you could take the soldering station and make one computer out of two computers. However, at some point there aren't enough IDE drives available anymore. There likely will be a lot of climate agreements in the future, so also consider that power consumption of old machines will become an issue, especially for developing countries. Today we already have a lot of less power consuming, but already aged 64-bit machines, that are not much used by those rich New Yorkers anymore, but ready to become a donation. Regards, Ralf -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel-- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] i386 architecture will be dropped starting with eoan (Ubuntu 19.10)
On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 11:33:53 -0400, Luigino Bracci wrote: >I apologize for the rudeness of what I'm going to say, but stop >creating 32-bit distributions is a decision that seems taken by people >living in New York, having computers with 16 GB of RAM and 1 TB SSDs, >and believing that the rest of the world lives like them. Hi, to put it in a nutshell, EOL of 18.04 LTS is April 2028, you shouldn't expect that a lot of i386 or even other 32-bit architecture could be artificially maintained much longer. To some extend you could take the soldering station and make one computer out of two computers. However, at some point there aren't enough IDE drives available anymore. There likely will be a lot of climate agreements in the future, so also consider that power consumption of old machines will become an issue, especially for developing countries. Today we already have a lot of less power consuming, but already aged 64-bit machines, that are not much used by those rich New Yorkers anymore, but ready to become a donation. Regards, Ralf -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] i386 architecture will be dropped starting with eoan (Ubuntu 19.10)
I also disagree with this decision. In my country, there is A LOT of hardware (minilaptops, old computers) with just 1 GB of RAM; those computers have 64-bit CPUs, but we recommend installing 32-bit distros on them, because the performance of a 64-bit distribution in 1 GB of RAM is disappointing; it's too slow because applications compiled for 64-bit eat more memory. Most people just can't pay the RAM upgrade to 2 GB or 4 GB (that upgrade costs one month of sallary in many countries). GNU/Linux is the natural option in developing countries. The government of my country gave 2,6 millions of minilaptops to children in the last 8 years, all with 1 GB of RAM and a Debian-based 32-bit Linux distro. I apologize for the rudeness of what I'm going to say, but stop creating 32-bit distributions is a decision that seems taken by people living in New York, having computers with 16 GB of RAM and 1 TB SSDs, and believing that the rest of the world lives like them. Regards. El vie., 21 de jun. de 2019 a la(s) 10:53, Erich Eickmeyer ( er...@ericheickmeyer.com) escribió: > Hello Steve, > > >Last year, the Ubuntu developer community considered the question of > whether > >to continue carrying forward the i386 architecture in the Ubuntu > archive for > >future releases.[1] The discussion at the time was inconclusive, but in > >light of the strong possibility that we might not include i386 as a > release > >architecture in 20.04 LTS, we took the proactive step to disable upgrades > >from 18.04 to 18.10 for i386 systems[2], to avoid accidentally stranding > >users on an interim release with 9 months of support instead of letting > them > >continue to run Ubuntu 18.04 LTS with its 5 years of standard support. > > > >In February of this year, I also posted to communicate the timeline in > which > >we would take a final decision about i386 support in 20.04 LTS[3], namely, > >that we would decide in the middle of 2019. > > > >The middle of 2019 has now arrived. The Ubuntu engineering team has > >reviewed the facts before us and concluded that we should not continue to > >carry i386 forward as an architecture. Consequently, i386 will not be > >included as an architecture for the 19.10 release, and we will shortly > begin > >the process of disabling it for the eoan series across Ubuntu > >infrastructure. > > > >While this means we will not provide 32-bit builds of new upstream > versions > >of libraries, there are a number of ways that 32-bit applications can > >continue to be made available to users of later Ubuntu releases, as > detailed > >in [4]. We will be working to polish the 32-bit support story over the > >course of the 19.10 development cycle. To follow the evolution of this > >support, you can participate in the discourse thread at [5]. > > > >[1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040310.html > >[2] > https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/1:18.10.10 > >[3] > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2019-February/040598.html > >[4] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040348.html > >[5] > > https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/i386-architecture-will-be-dropped-starting-with-eoan-ubuntu-19-10/11263/2 > > It took me a while to reach this decision, but I believe my response is > in order. > > I really wish the flavor leads had been consulted prior to this decision > being made. You yourself even sponsored a package back in March that is > directly affected by this decision. > > One of the biggest features of Carla being in the repositories is that > it allows a WINE Bridge for Windows-based VST plugins, the vast majority > of which are STILL compiled in 32-bit. Without 32-bit support, this > feature is dead. This makes converting to Ubuntu Studio from Windows > especially hard on those who rely on Windows VST plugins, the vast > majority for which there is no Linux alternative. If this WINE bridge > disappears due to this decision, so does a large part of our user base. > We're talking a huge chunk of professional recording studios and artists > that would rather not be running Windows. > > I understand this decision has been made, but with my Ubuntu Studio > Project Leader hat on, I can say that this is an extreme disservice to > our user base and community. If it's possible to reconsider this > decision at this point, I urge you to do so. > > Best regards, > Erich Eickmeyer > > Erich Eickmeyer > Project Leader > Ubuntu Studio > > ubuntustudio.org > > -- > ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list > ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel > -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] i386 architecture will be dropped starting with eoan (Ubuntu 19.10)
Hello Steve, >Last year, the Ubuntu developer community considered the question of whether >to continue carrying forward the i386 architecture in the Ubuntu archive for >future releases.[1] The discussion at the time was inconclusive, but in >light of the strong possibility that we might not include i386 as a release >architecture in 20.04 LTS, we took the proactive step to disable upgrades >from 18.04 to 18.10 for i386 systems[2], to avoid accidentally stranding >users on an interim release with 9 months of support instead of letting them >continue to run Ubuntu 18.04 LTS with its 5 years of standard support. > >In February of this year, I also posted to communicate the timeline in which >we would take a final decision about i386 support in 20.04 LTS[3], namely, >that we would decide in the middle of 2019. > >The middle of 2019 has now arrived. The Ubuntu engineering team has >reviewed the facts before us and concluded that we should not continue to >carry i386 forward as an architecture. Consequently, i386 will not be >included as an architecture for the 19.10 release, and we will shortly begin >the process of disabling it for the eoan series across Ubuntu >infrastructure. > >While this means we will not provide 32-bit builds of new upstream versions >of libraries, there are a number of ways that 32-bit applications can >continue to be made available to users of later Ubuntu releases, as detailed >in [4]. We will be working to polish the 32-bit support story over the >course of the 19.10 development cycle. To follow the evolution of this >support, you can participate in the discourse thread at [5]. > >[1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040310.html >[2] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/1:18.10.10 >[3] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2019-February/040598.html >[4] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040348.html >[5] https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/i386-architecture-will-be-dropped-starting-with-eoan-ubuntu-19-10/11263/2 It took me a while to reach this decision, but I believe my response is in order. I really wish the flavor leads had been consulted prior to this decision being made. You yourself even sponsored a package back in March that is directly affected by this decision. One of the biggest features of Carla being in the repositories is that it allows a WINE Bridge for Windows-based VST plugins, the vast majority of which are STILL compiled in 32-bit. Without 32-bit support, this feature is dead. This makes converting to Ubuntu Studio from Windows especially hard on those who rely on Windows VST plugins, the vast majority for which there is no Linux alternative. If this WINE bridge disappears due to this decision, so does a large part of our user base. We're talking a huge chunk of professional recording studios and artists that would rather not be running Windows. I understand this decision has been made, but with my Ubuntu Studio Project Leader hat on, I can say that this is an extreme disservice to our user base and community. If it's possible to reconsider this decision at this point, I urge you to do so. Best regards, Erich Eickmeyer Erich Eickmeyer Project Leader Ubuntu Studio ubuntustudio.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
