- Original Message -
From: Asmus Freytag [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Karl Pentzlin [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: den 31 januari 2002 22:09
Subject: When to use markup: (Was:Introducing the idea of a ROMAN VARIANT
SELECTOR (was: Re: Proposing Fraktur))
A more productive
- Original Message -
From: Asmus Freytag [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Karl Pentzlin [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: den 31 januari 2002 22:09
Subject: When to use markup: (Was:Introducing the idea of a ROMAN VARIANT
SELECTOR (was: Re: Proposing Fraktur))
A more productive
At 07:35 2/3/2002, Stefan Persson wrote:
Italics is better supported than Fraktur, as most word processors have an
option for using italics with any font installed on the computer. For
Fraktur one has to use a different font.
Um, for italics one has to use a different font also. Many programs
From: John Hudson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Um, for italics one has to use a different font also. Many
programs provide an italics button that activates the italic
member of a font family, but this still involves selecting a
separate font.
Au contraire, sir! Many fonts *do* have a separate .TTF
At 10:25 AM 2/3/02, John Hudson wrote:
Um, for italics one has to use a different font also. Many programs
provide an italics button that activates the italic member of a font
family, but this still involves selecting a separate font.
And it would be simple to set up a font family so that
At 10:55 2/3/2002, Michael \(michka\) Kaplan wrote:
Um, for italics one has to use a different font also. Many
programs provide an italics button that activates the italic
member of a font family, but this still involves selecting a
separate font.
Au contraire, sir! Many fonts *do* have
Hi,
Ken wrote:
frakturDas sinkende Schiff sandte/fraktur SOSfraktur-Rufe./fraktur
or conversely, perhaps better:
Das sinkende Schiff sandte antiquaSOS/antiqua-Rufe.
at the end, it may be more useful to rather markup the semantics than
formatting properties, i.e.
This is not a
quite a lot of space. However, Fraktur is already encoded in the
Mathematical whatever-it's-called block. This variant selector would mean
that lots of characters can be displayed in two *different* ways. I'd
prefer
that Fraktur diacritics were added instead, and that the mathematical
- Original Message -
From: Kenneth Whistler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: den 31 januari 2002 01:04
Subject: Re: Proposing Fraktur
And so what? I thought the meaning of Unicode was that all languages
should
be fully supported
At 09:42 AM 1/30/02 +0100, Karl Pentzlin wrote:
The question is, are typesetting rules part of the script?
(I mean rules in the sense of obligatory regulations, not guidelines).
This distinction is a very German way of approaching the question.
If yes, (in my opinion) the plain text must carry
On Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 07:32:40PM +0100, Stefan Persson wrote:
Do you have to use *both* kinds of characters at the same time in the same
document? In old Swedish you have to use *both* a's at the same time,
otherwise the text is grammatically wrong, be it so in plain text.
Being
.. about Fraktur vs. Roman being a codepoint difference rather than a
markup difference..
Like everything else in character encoding, there are shades of
gray,
and levels of gradation, so not everything is clear cut. But
recognizing
up front that character codes may legitimately serve
Am Mittwoch, 30. Januar 2002 um 00:39 schrieb Philipp Reichmuth:
PR ... for example, in German hyphenation the consonant
PR cluster ck gets hyphenated as k-k under some circumstances. This
PR is a rule as well, but still it is a clear case where putting it into
PR the encoding by means of a
Karl Pentzlin wrote:
[...] (as you can encode a Serbocroatian plain text to
be displayed in Latin or Cyrillic correctly without change).
I guess you are talking about old Yugoslav character sets, as this would not
be possible in Unicode.
Another case of a single encoding which overlaps more
origin, while katakana and hiragana letters are very different and
generally
derive from completely different ideographs.
Mark
Actually no. Of the 46 syllables, 31 have a shared root, only the derivation
is different (block writing for katakans and fast handwriting for hiragana)
... not
Michael Bauer wrote:
origin, while katakana and hiragana letters are very different and
generally
derive from completely different ideographs.
Mark
Mark or Marco? Well, anyway, the root is shared. :-)
Actually no. Of the 46 syllables, 31 have a shared root, only
the derivation is
On Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 09:42:08AM +0100, Karl Pentzlin wrote:
The advantage is that you can encode text to be displayed correctly
(i.e. according to the obligatory typesetting rules) in Fraktur as
plain text. You even can display this text correctly in Fraktur or
Roman without change (as you
- Original Message -
From: Karl Pentzlin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: den 29 januari 2002 23:39
Subject: Introducing the idea of a ROMAN VARIANT SELECTOR (was: Re:
Proposing Fraktur)
While in Swedish this is a *tradition* according to Stefan, in German
it is even
- Original Message -
From: Karl Pentzlin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: den 30 januari 2002 09:42
Subject: Re: Introducing the idea of a ROMAN VARIANT SELECTOR (was: Re:
Proposing Fraktur)
PR I think most of these cases, including
PR the Fraktur problem, deal
Stefan Persson wrote:
AFAIK, the criteria for adding any character to the Standard is that there
should be a difference between the character and all the other characters
already supported by the Standard. Here we have a such difference, doesn't
this mean that Fraktur ought to be added to
In old Swedish there was a tradition of writing words of foreign origin in
the Roman type of letters (in Swedish referred to as antikva), while the
rest of the words were written in Fraktur. This is similar to the difference
between katakana and hiragana/kanji in modern Japanese.
AFAIK, the
Stefan Persson wrote:
In old Swedish there was a tradition of writing words of
foreign origin in the Roman type of letters (in Swedish
referred to as antikva), while the rest of the words
were written in Fraktur.
I have seen the same usage in German, on an old Duden dictionary: words of
- Original Message -
From: Marco Cimarosti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Stefan Persson' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Unicode-listan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: den 29 januari 2002 19:39
Subject: RE: Proposing Fraktur
Stefan Persson wrote:
In old Swedish there was a tradition of writing words
Am Dienstag, 29. Januar 2002 um 17:07 schrieb Stefan Persson:
SP In old Swedish there was a tradition of writing words of foreign origin in
SP the Roman type of letters (in Swedish referred to as antikva), while the
SP rest of the words were written in Fraktur. ...
Am Dienstag, 29. Januar 2002
Hello Karl and others,
KP While in Swedish this is a *tradition* according to Stefan, in German
KP it is even a *rule*. The Duden says:
KP Fremdsprachige Wörter und Wortgruppen ... sind im Fraktursatz als
KP Antiqua zu setzen, i.e. Words of foreign languages and groups of
KP them ... have to be
David Starner said:
Fraktur is not a different script from the Latin script, and therefore is
not encoded separately.
True, but Fraktur math characters are encoded in plane 1 for use in mathematics. These
characters are not intended to be used for natural language purposes (unless you think
Kana (Hiragana/Katakana):
Two (essentially) iso-phonic(?) systems, where each symbol
in one set has a corresponding symbol in the other set,
both denoting the same sound value.
The set of forms are historically unrelated.
There is little overlap in the
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