Re: The case for not trying to be so English-like

I aced grammar in grade school, only because I recognized that the trick was not to understand the rules, but to memorize the exceptions. I told my teacher once that English seems to have more exceptions than rules. :-) Bob S > On Apr 14, 2018, at 19:39 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode >

The case for not trying to be so English-like

Hi, Mark, Very interesting was your post. And to reciprocate, will I add a few ideas ! I don't sleep - I listen to "BBC World Service" during many long nights. Fascinating! It covers a multitude of affairs (World-Wide). I listen to it on WiFi Channels. A recent post led me to the following,

The case for not trying to be so English-like

Hah! or, why hangover is one word... https://lithub.com/attention-grammar-pedants-the-english-language-isnt-logical/ -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe,

OT: English-like redux

-- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your

Re: English Like?

"The Colonies" . . . err . . . Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Falklands, Gibraltar and St. Helena . . . Or do you mean the erstwhile colonies? And how erstwhile do you mean? The North American Colonies . . . um. As LiveCode is made in a current English Colony (Scotland) but seems to

Re: English Like?

I do not profess to be a professor of English, Mike. I must say though, I have never felt felt that felt as soft as the felt at Mr. Felt's felt factory. On May 25, 2017 9:41 PM, "Mike Kerner via use-livecode" < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! > I understand

Re: English Like?

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! I understand that inside the Colonies, the punctuation goes inside the quotation marks, and outside the Colonies, the punctuation goes outside the quotation marks. Just because this thread is being read and replied to from both inside and outside the Colonies does not

Re: English Like?

Were would you use "box" as a synonym (if it were one)? Is it the same as "rectangle" or "ask/answer". End users often tell me, "a box popped up on my screen.", not a prompt, or a message. Next, they proceed to tell me what it said. ME: "You're telling me, there was a _talking box_ on your

Re: English Like?

On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 2:24 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > It will become blindingly clear to you in a couple of years who I will > have tested it on. > and don't forget dangling participles. sqb -- Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -

Re: English Like?

I have on several occasions propagated this list to my computer science students. Now I wonder whether it had not been just as appropriate to tell my English students that they would benefit from joining this list. Tore Nilsen > 25. mai 2017 kl. 23.35 skrev Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode >

Re: English Like?

On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 2:24 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > It will become blindingly clear to you in a couple of years who I will > have tested it on. You forgot to gratuitously split an infinitive . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702)

Re: English Like?

It will become blindingly clear to you in a couple of years who I will have tested it on. On 5/25/17 3:51 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: Seriously. This is what most people who think they know about time travel do not get. Given time travel backwards 4 hours, if you do not ALSO go

Re: English Like?

On 25 May 2017, at 20:10, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: I almost ace'd grammar in grade school, but I kept complaining that the English language had more exceptions than it had actual rules. Sounds like you *should* have aced it. :D k ___

Re: English Like?

On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 05/25/2017 01:23 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > >> Conjunctions should not be used as the first word in a sentence. >> > > You shouldn't put sentences in passive voice. It's not

Re: English Like?

Oh right. Bob S > On May 25, 2017, at 13:14 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode > wrote: > > making a container (but NOT a solid object). ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit

Re: English Like?

Seriously. This is what most people who think they know about time travel do not get. Given time travel backwards 4 hours, if you do not ALSO go back in space, the first thing you will notice is how mind bogglingly cold it is, and shortly thereafter that there is no air to breath, and if you

Re: English Like?

On 05/25/2017 01:23 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: Conjunctions should not be used as the first word in a sentence. You shouldn't put sentences in passive voice. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list

Re: English Like?

On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 1:23 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Conjunctions should not be used as the first word in a sentence. It was the type of grammar up with which I shall not put! -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462

Re: English Like?

Conjunctions should not be used as the first word in a sentence. On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I almost ace'd

Re: English Like?

On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I almost ace'd grammar in grade school, but I kept complaining that the > English language had more exceptions than it had actual rules. > And we like it that way! :) -- Dr. Richard E.

Re: English Like?

Quite. I never drink vodka. But a "box" is not a BOX, and more than a "button" on a computer screen has anything whatsoever to do with buttons on my radio. If I drink Rakia (the Bulgarian homologue of Whisky) I can feel this intuitively. I was not so daft as to use the word BOX without

Re: English Like?

You have to go back in space too, it's the only way to make "top" turn into "left". On 5/25/17 2:05 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: In Jacque's Time Travel Stack, it's counter-clockwise, but only when you go back in time. Bob S On May 24, 2017, at 13:41 , Scott Rossi via

Re: English Like?

On 05/25/2017 12:08 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: Okay you copied that from an online encyclopedia! A couple of them, actually. Pasted the most interesting parts together. You didn't really think I got that out of my own head, did you? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com

Re: English Like?

Technically, a box is a 3 dimentional object made of 6 rectangles each joined at the corners to form a solid object. If there are one of those on your screen and it's talking to you, I'd lay off the kimche for a bit and get some sleep. Oh, and when drinking vodka, don't eat the worm!!! Bob S

Re: English Like?

cturer who teaches LC to graphic design students > from time to time, I can absolutely attest to the benefits of the > 'English-like' qualities of xTalk. They get it, they can work things out, > they can use it to create *their own* basic tools and toys, and this

Re: English Like?

Okay you copied that from an online encyclopedia! Bob S > On May 24, 2017, at 14:47 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode > wrote: > > > Syntax is an emotive issue (I could beat Python to death with some of the > > decisions they have made about syntax - but yet I

Re: English Like?

In Jacque's Time Travel Stack, it's counter-clockwise, but only when you go back in time. Bob S > On May 24, 2017, at 13:41 , Scott Rossi via use-livecode > wrote: > > @Mark — the sequence/direction is clockwise, if that helps. So top -> left… > doesn’t

Re: English Like?

On May 25, 2017 3:03:01 AM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: On 2017-05-24 19:14, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: On 05/24/2017 08:03 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: Anyway, I shall now get off my (small?) soap-box. Again this is a

Re: English Like?

If the "box" is just a rectangle then it is probably some sort of modeless window, if the "box" is 'talking' to me then it's an ask/answer thing (which have always struck me as labelled the wrong way round). Personally I tend to go for "thingy", this is so polysemantic there is absolutely

Re: English Like?

Were would you use "box" as a synonym (if it were one)? Is it the same as "rectangle" or "ask/answer". End users often tell me, "a box popped up on my screen.", not a prompt, or a message. Next, they proceed to tell me what it said. ME: "You're telling me, there was a _talking box_ on your

Re: English Like?

OOPS!! https://vimeo.com/36579366 On 25 May 2017 at 12:33, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Can you post the URL to that video, please? > > Richmond. > > On 5/25/17 1:13 pm, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode wrote: > >> Hi >> >> You might want to watch

Re: English Like?

Can you post the URL to that video, please? Richmond. On 5/25/17 1:13 pm, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode wrote: Hi You might want to watch this 1 hour ish video by Bret Victor as you are compiling. I've seen a good few of his talks over the years and read a lot of his stuff. If you think it's

Re: English Like?

Hi You might want to watch this 1 hour ish video by Bret Victor as you are compiling. I've seen a good few of his talks over the years and read a lot of his stuff. If you think it's too long just got to either 2:30 or 10:30 (that one is mind blowing) but I'd suggest you listen to the whole

Re: English Like?

who teaches LC to graphic design students from time to time, I can absolutely attest to the benefits of the 'English-like' qualities of xTalk. They get it, they can work things out, they can use it to create *their own* basic tools and toys, and this after just one afternoon. It's imperfect

Re: English Like?

On 2017-05-24 19:27, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: On 05/24/2017 08:11 AM, Martin Koob via use-livecode wrote: I agree that LiveCode script should become more English like as time goes on not only with english words but also with more natural(or intuitive) grammar. From your examples I

Re: English Like?

On 2017-05-24 23:47, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: On 05/24/2017 08:03 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: Syntax is an emotive issue (I could beat Python to death with some of the decisions they have made about syntax - but yet I still use it and slightly enjoy doing so for the

Re: English Like?

On 2017-05-24 19:14, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: On 05/24/2017 08:03 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: Anyway, I shall now get off my (small?) soap-box. Again this is a discussion, there are lots of reasons why people don't choose LiveCode and we try our very best to

Re: English Like?

On 05/24/2017 06:56 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: so, @markwieder, are you not a fan of synonyms? Eh? No, very much am. Just usually get my hand slapped when I suggest that to the team. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___

Re: English Like?

On 05/24/2017 09:18 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: I suspect 48% of readers will remember one of those over the others. ...wait... there was more than one? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list

Re: English Like?

Now I only have to remember whether it's clockwise or the other one. Use a mnemonic like "all cows eat grass" and "good boys do fine always": Little Tykes Read Books Lethal Tornadoes Ruin Buildings Lowly Tadpoles Release Bubbles Loose Tops Reveal Boo... er, Bosoms I suspect 48% of readers

Re: English Like?

On May 24, 2017, at 2:30 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 05/24/2017 01:41 PM, Scott Rossi via use-livecode wrote: >> @Mark — the sequence/direction is clockwise, if that helps. So top -> left… >> doesn’t work. > > That does, in a way. > Now I

Porridge (was Re: English Like?)

Richard wrote: > For those who like salt in their porridge there's LiveCode, and for > those who prefer sugar, or syrup, or prunes in their porridge > there are other puddings on offer. I actually like both. Couldn't imagine not putting salt in the porridge. Then once it is cooked, add sugar

Re: English Like?

so, @markwieder, are you not a fan of synonyms? On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:31 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 05/24/2017 03:38 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > >> Mark Wieder wrote: >> >> > Now I only have to remember whether it's

Re: English Like?

On 05/24/2017 03:38 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: Mark Wieder wrote: > Now I only have to remember whether it's clockwise or the other one. > And that it doesn't start at the top - TopRightBottomLeft seems more > clockwise to me. Or at least more like a clock. And to the team

Re: English Like?

. Except that it's topLeft and bottomRight. Not saying that it shouldn't be... it's just part of being "English-like". ...and I have to laugh at the dictionary's syntax for topLeft: "set the topLeft of object to left, top" -- Mark Wieder

Re: English Like?

Mark Wieder wrote: > Now I only have to remember whether it's clockwise or the other one. > And that it doesn't start at the top - TopRightBottomLeft seems more > clockwise to me. Or at least more like a clock. And to the team that designed CSS. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems

English Like?

Or you could remember that the Rectangle of a control is a repetition of two coordinates: xyxy Left and Right are on X axis Top and Bottom are on Y axis. > on 05/24/2017 01:41 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > the sequence/direction is clockwise, if that helps. > So top -> left… doesn’t work. > Mark

Re: English Like?

On 05/24/2017 05:43 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: One of the other things that the xtalk languages have that makes them more appealing is synonyms -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list

Re: English Like?

On 05/24/2017 08:03 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > Syntax is an emotive issue (I could beat Python to death with some of the decisions they have made about syntax - but yet I still use it and slightly enjoy doing so for the purposes I use it for) - but it is not the

Re: English Like?

On 05/24/2017 01:41 PM, Scott Rossi via use-livecode wrote: @Mark — the sequence/direction is clockwise, if that helps. So top -> left… doesn’t work. That does, in a way. Now I only have to remember whether it's clockwise or the other one. And that it doesn't start at the top -

Re: English Like?

@Mark — the sequence/direction is clockwise, if that helps. So top -> left… doesn’t work. Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > On May 24, 2017, at 12:35 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode > wrote: > > On 05/24/2017 12:25 PM, Alex

Re: English Like?

All this chat reminds me about this old pull request: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/1587/files and blog post https://livecode.com/extending-the-refactored-engine-properties/ the top/bottom/left/right/middle/area etc of rect could probably be done in the same way. OK so it's maybe not

Re: English Like?

Then I'll confess that what I would actually do is - make them globals (??!!) - initialize them in the "on librarystack" handler of my standard (i.e. always used) library stack - and be comforted that my use of 'explicitvars' will ensure I know if they are not included as global in any

Re: English Like?

n is an island', people develop > preconceptions about things over time which influence the choices in > the future. > > I think it would be fair to say there might well be some sort of general > 'meme' which floats around with regards to 'English-like' languages > and not necess

Re: English Like?

On 05/24/2017 12:25 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: constant kRectLeft = 1, kRectTop = 2, kRectRight = 3, kRectBottom = 4 (or whatever ... haven't looked it up :-) Exactly the point. I'd have to store this somewhere, and either grab it each time I need it or look it up and reinvent

Re: English Like?

of items, and I can never remember whether it's "left,top..." or "top,left..." and I end up looking it up every time. I'd love to have a more normal (all right, English-like... there... I've said it) way to remember and write this.

Re: English Like?

On 05/24/2017 10:54 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: like "put the left of someObject"? Heh. Shoulda used a different example. No, my problem is more with changing the rect of an object. Setting the left of an object has repercussions with respect to the other object parameters. If I

Re: English Like?

Bob, You forget right upto Visual Foxpro 9, Fox still was backwards compatible with Dbase 2 and still had the STORE statement. STORE A TO B STORE 1+15 to C STORE 5 to a,b,,c,d STORE "HELLO" to message The HC and DBASE way is the logical way to do it for mere mortals, but when the whole

Re: English Like?

like "put the left of someObject"? On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 05/24/2017 08:11 AM, Martin Koob via use-livecode wrote: > >> I agree that LiveCode script should become more English like as

Re: English Like?

I'll bite. One of the reasons that the heartbleed bug passed muster was because the code OpenSSL is written in is *not* easily human readable. It's hard enough to spot a bug in LC script. Being human readable makes it tolerable to debug by reading through code. The first time I encountered x

Re: English Like?

ve to have a more normal (all right, English-like... there... I've said > it) way to remember and write this. You seem to be a bit LTRBed by this . . . :) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@

Re: English Like?

On 05/24/2017 08:11 AM, Martin Koob via use-livecode wrote: I agree that LiveCode script should become more English like as time goes on not only with english words but also with more natural(or intuitive) grammar. From your examples I think it would be more natural to type. put

Re: English Like?

On 05/24/2017 08:03 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: Anyway, I shall now get off my (small?) soap-box. Again this is a discussion, there are lots of reasons why people don't choose LiveCode and we try our very best to determine them, and deal with them. There are certainly easier

Re: English Like?

around with regards to 'English-like' languages and not necessarily a positive one. Ergo - someone who has never been a programmer, who perhaps is thinking of dabbling, might get put off by LiveCode because of its language, just because they have that 'meme' embedded in that psyche without even trying

Re: English Like?

I'm a very happy camper. So, for a bottom line, I really don't give a hoot about the "put 3 into x" syntax as long as I can build what I want. My initial posting was to comment that a LOT of the syntax for important operations is neither English-like, nor intuitive. No: a lot

Re: English Like?

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 11:03 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 2017-05-24 15:45, dunbarx via use-livecode wrote: > >> There is a far more important issue here. New learners are far more >> likely to >> be coaxed into continuing to spend the time

Re: English Like?

I agree that LiveCode script should become more English like as time goes on not only with english words but also with more natural(or intuitive) grammar. >From your examples I think it would be more natural to type. put the third index of tNumericArray into tFoo OR put the backCo

Re: English Like?

sting was to comment that a LOT of the syntax for important operations is neither English-like, nor intuitive. The reason I moved to Livecode was its capabilities, multiple platform deployment, but mostly the potential of the development team and the dynamic way they are improving the pr

Re: English Like?

e because of its 'English-like' language, who get sucked in because of it. We have to concede that point - if it weren't (at least in some part) true we wouldn't hear such phrases as 'babyish' and 'insult to intelligence' that are often heard about xTalks (and LiveCode in particula

Re: English Like?

that on purpose. >> >> Remember "for the rest of us"? >> >> Experienced users are being academic and pedantic to raise this issue as >> if >> it were something important. We need new users, not old ones. >> >> No offense, please. >> &g

Re: English Like?

cademic and pedantic to raise this issue as if > it were something important. We need new users, not old ones. > > No offense, please. > > Craig Newman > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.2783 > 05.n4.nabble.com/English-Like-tp

Re: English Like?

revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/English-Like-tp4714951p4715143.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and mana

Re: English Like?

On 2017-05-24 14:52, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode wrote: Mark You are a big Tease. Hehe - I don't mean to be a tease - making correct/good technical choices as to how things should work under the hood opens up an array of options for the future. We always try and design things with that in

Re: English Like?

When Director died, I >> looked around, held my nose, and jumped to livecode, and now I’m glad >> I jumped that initial negative barrier. But, I take exception to the >> many claims that livecode is “english-like” (in spite of the many >> “english-like” commands), espec

Re: English Like?

"x=3” syntax that >> all algebra students lewarn in gradeschool, When Director died, I >> looked around, held my nose, and jumped to livecode, and now I’m glad >> I jumped that initial negative barrier. But, I take exception to the >> many claims that livecode is

Re: English Like?

t;x=3” syntax that all algebra students lewarn in gradeschool, When Director died, I looked around, held my nose, and jumped to livecode, and now I’m glad I jumped that initial negative barrier. But, I take exception to the many claims that livecode is “english-like” (in spite of the many “english

English Like?

on Thu May 18 2017, William Prothero wrote: > I think that comments by relative newbies, who don’t have > the same experience with LC are very important. > I’ve mentioned several times that some of the tutorials > and lessons can miss things that the author takes for > granted. I’m particularly

Re: English Like?

Richard: Thanks for the kind words. I think that comments by relative newbies, who don’t have the same experience with LC are very important. I’ve mentioned several times that some of the tutorials and lessons can miss things that the author takes for granted. I’m particularly sensitive to this

Re: English Like?

William Prothero wrote: > When Director died, I looked around, held my nose, and jumped to > livecode, and now I’m glad I jumped that initial negative barrier. > But, I take exception to the many claims that livecode is > “english-like” (in spite of the many “english-li

English Like?

chool, When Director died, I looked around, held my nose, and jumped to livecode, and now I’m glad I jumped that initial negative barrier. But, I take exception to the many claims that livecode is “english-like” (in spite of the many “english-like” commands), especially if you want to do the adv