Mark Wieder wrote:
Richard-
Thursday, May 15, 2014, 2:34:38 PM, you wrote:
On another note, as I promised you last week I did ask Ben if RunRev
planned on open-sourcing the On-Rev real-time debugger. He's not sure
and will check with Kevin, but he did confirm my hunch that it requires
Richard-
Thursday, May 15, 2014, 2:34:38 PM, you wrote:
On another note, as I promised you last week I did ask Ben if RunRev
planned on open-sourcing the On-Rev real-time debugger. He's not sure
and will check with Kevin, but he did confirm my hunch that it requires
specific sockets open on
Let's see - on the DG, Hanson and I had a brief conversation, that was
similar to what you were describing to the list, then you tossed FIX: into
the mix, so I'm going to have to take a look at, and write a FIX: for DG's
For OR/RO, all I can say is whatever. Let's fix the name of RO so it
I don't know whether the Menu Builder falls into the 'IDE oddity' category
but it sure it a liability!
-
Some are born coders, some achieve coding, and some have coding thrust upon
them. - William Shakespeare Hugh Senior
--
View this message in context:
On May 16, 2014, at 9:12 AM, Dave Kilroy d...@applicationinsight.com
wrote:
I don't know whether the Menu Builder falls into the 'IDE oddity' category
but it sure it a liability!
Dave,
Anything specific, or do you just find it confusing in general?
Devin
Devin Asay
Office of Digital
Hi Devin
Sorry to be vague, didn't think I needed to say how unreliable it the menu
tool is - it has bitten me in the past and plenty of others too. What
usually happens is that you set up your menus and then when you reopen the
stack half of the entries will have vanished, or some will be
How so? I use menu builder as a quick way to block out menus and haven't had
any trouble (except for the versions with a bug that got fixed.) It does need
updating to include the new tag features though.
Do you mean the interface isn't clear?
On May 16, 2014 10:12:07 AM CDT, Dave Kilroy
On May 16, 2014, at 10:16 AM, Dave Kilroy d...@applicationinsight.com
wrote:
Hi Devin
Sorry to be vague, didn't think I needed to say how unreliable it the menu
tool is - it has bitten me in the past and plenty of others too. What
usually happens is that you set up your menus and then
I wonder if you're talking about the two versions of LiveCode that had a bug.
It chopped off half of every menu template script. That's been fixed now.
On May 16, 2014 11:16:46 AM CDT, Dave Kilroy d...@applicationinsight.com
wrote:
Hi Devin
Sorry to be vague, didn't think I needed to say
J. Landman Gay wrote:
I wonder if you're talking about the two versions of LiveCode that
had a bug. It chopped off half of every menu template script.
That's been fixed now.
When discussing things that don't work it's VERY helpful to note the bug
report number.
If a bug hasn't yet been
I don't use the Menu Builder much, but I use the Geometry Manager on a regular
basis, and I've found it to be reliable.
I only wish I could use it on mobile. Because I can't, I've written a lot of my
own geometry management scripts.
In general, the better feature parity we have across all
On May 16, 2014, at 11:14 AM, Charles E Buchwald char...@buchwald.ca
wrote:
I don't use the Menu Builder much, but I use the Geometry Manager on a
regular basis, and I've found it to be reliable.
I only wish I could use it on mobile. Because I can't, I've written a lot of
my own geometry
Geometry Manager would be even more useful on mobile since MG doesn't
support screen rotation any more. I don't know if Scott is thinking about
adding that feature to tmC.
I think the menu builder is flat-out weak. It isn't buggy for me, it just
isn't very helpful. I guess it's good that I am
Devin I think you are correct - it's buggy rather than an example of weird
interface design and shouldn't appear on this list.
And for those of you who have never been snagged by Menu Builder this thread
gives examples of the kind of things it can do:
I've never seen any of those things either, but since so many others have, I
wonder if there actually might be a problem with the interface. I'd like to be
a fly on the wall and watch people use it.
On May 16, 2014 5:44:20 PM CDT, Dave Kilroy d...@applicationinsight.com wrote:
Devin I think
Devin-
The contextual menu that pops up when you right-click on a control is
different from the one that pops up when you right-click a stack,
which is different from the one that pops up in the Application
Browser, which is different from the one that pops up in the Project
Browser.
Drives. Me.
Thanks for the responses folks. Keep them coming, and I'll post a summary.
Here's another one of mine:
Names of blendLevel inks: Whaaa? What do those things even mean?
Devin
Devin Asay
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University
___
Try resizing something, or using the alignment tools.
I just ran into this, again, this week, when I was trying to fix a vertical
line. The line is too short, so I changed the length. The line
lengthened, UPWARD. So I then changed the top of the line, thinking that
would help me except the
And another:
If you have your lappie hooked to two monitors at work, and you use both
monitors, and then you go home, guess what happens to windows, especially
on a Mac, where you are using multiple workspaces? That's right, the
windows, even the LC development windows, are off-screen somewhere
Whoops! Wait, a second, here's another:
The locked of the properties palette for each object is separate and
persistent. This is really great when you are working with a component or
object that is installed by another developer, and want to look at two of
the developer's objects side-by-side
On May 15, 2014, at 9:12 AM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com
wrote:
Devin Asay wrote:
Thanks for the responses folks. Keep them coming, and I'll post a summary.
It may be helpful if you'd post your summary to the IDE Contributors Forum:
Devin Asay wrote:
Thanks for the responses folks. Keep them coming, and I'll post a summary.
It may be helpful if you'd post your summary to the IDE Contributors Forum:
http://forums.runrev.com/viewforum.php?f=67
Here's another one of mine:
Names of blendLevel inks: Whaaa? What do those
On May 15, 2014, at 9:16 AM, Mike Kerner mikeker...@roadrunner.com
wrote:
Whoops! Wait, a second, here's another:
The locked of the properties palette for each object is separate and
persistent. This is really great when you are working with a component or
object that is installed by
Mike, this is the part that I don't get about open source... yet. I guess we
don't have the community structures to handle it.
I mean, I've made that (free) plugin to handle this specific problem. lcMover
moves stacks/windows around, whether they are off-screen or not. I even added
an option
There's a small view of two overlapping images at the bottom of the inspector
that shows what the ink will do.
The names of the inks are the same as the ones that Photoshop and many other
image processing programs use, so that's a tough call. Specialists might
complain if they are changed.
On May 15, 2014, at 9:57 AM, Charles E Buchwald char...@buchwald.ca wrote:
Mike, this is the part that I don't get about open source... yet. I guess we
don't have the community structures to handle it.
I mean, I've made that (free) plugin to handle this specific problem.
lcMover moves
On May 15, 2014, at 10:00 AM, J. Landman Gay jac...@hyperactivesw.com
wrote:
There's a small view of two overlapping images at the bottom of the inspector
that shows what the ink will do.
Well, I'll be d**ned. How many times have I looked at that, and it never
registered until now. What
On 15/05/14 17:42, Devin Asay wrote:
Thanks for the responses folks. Keep them coming, and I'll post a summary.
Here's another one of mine:
Names of blendLevel inks: Whaaa? What do those things even mean?
Yes: a set of names that had some sort of connexion with the effects
produced
would
This one might be just me.
It is awkward to move off the keyboard while editing a script to hover over a
control in the Object Inspector waiting for it to take so I can see the name of
the property.
On May 15, 2014, at 8:42 AM, Devin Asay devin_a...@byu.edu wrote:
Thanks for the responses
It's persistent between launches of LC.
The case in question is dealing with the dataGrid, because there are issues
with the DG, which I detailed in a bug report that I filed this week, in
particular related to resizing a header. Because a DG is an amalgam of
numerous LC objects, issues can
Charles,
I was not aware of your add-on. Your add-on, like numerous other add-ons,
have not made it to the collective consciousness, yet. That's exactly why
we're talking about taking the revOnline project broader and trying to get
it organized and improved, so that it becomes a catalog of
Most of the LC-coded portions of LC are not part of GitHub. This also
includes dataGrids, which have several issues I discovered earlier in the
week.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Devin Asay devin_a...@byu.edu wrote:
On May 15, 2014, at 9:57 AM, Charles E Buchwald char...@buchwald.ca
I’d call this one more than an oddity. This is a bug. It goes along with the
one about how no window can be higher than the icon bar even if it is on a
display placed high and the bar is not even on that display.
Dar
On May 15, 2014, at 9:23 AM, Mike Kerner mikeker...@roadrunner.com wrote:
+1
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Dar Scott d...@swcp.com wrote:
This one might be just me.
It is awkward to move off the keyboard while editing a script to hover
over a control in the Object Inspector waiting for it to take so I can see
the name of the property.
On May 15, 2014, at
OK, so what do we have to do, as a community of users, to get RevOnline working
again? This seems like a good way to encourage and coordinate community
participation. Particularly so because we are talking about LC code, outside of
the GitHub ecosystem, and outside of the IDE. And because it's
Look at the [Off] Cool Plugins thread.
--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
and did a little diving.
And God said, This is good.
Richard is heading up this effort. It is being discussed in another
thread. Volunteers have been...volunteering.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Charles E Buchwald char...@buchwald.cawrote:
OK, so what do we have to do, as a community of users, to get RevOnline
working again? This seems
Charles wrote:
OK, so what do we have to do, as a community of users, to get
RevOnline working again?
Fix it. :)
My Community meeting this morning with Ben focused almost exclusively on
RevOnline.
It's true that LiveCode is inherently problematic to attempt to
integrate into tools like
This is similar to a discussion I had earlier this week about fixing the
issues I found in DataGrid.
However, what do we do about OnRev, especially if we are going to work on
it as a group of sorts?
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 4:29 PM, Richard Gaskin
ambassa...@fourthworld.comwrote:
Charles
Mike, I did follow the whole [Off] Cool Plugins thread. I was a bit
disappointed that it kind of petered out after several people expressed an
interest in helping. I did propose that the forum for plugins and extensions be
split in two. My thought being that developing either is very different
Mike, I did follow the whole [Off] Cool Plugins thread. I was a bit
disappointed that it kind of petered out after several people expressed an
interest in helping. I did propose that the forum for plugins and extensions be
split in two. My thought being that developing either is very different
On 15/05/2014 21:29, Richard Gaskin wrote:
As an example of this workflow in action, we have a simple fix here:
http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11493
Since the code change is comprised of adding only five characters to a
comparison string and can be easily seen in the Message Box,
Mike Kerner wrote:
This is similar to a discussion I had earlier this week about fixing the
issues I found in DataGrid.
I think I missed something. Did you submit fixes with those? If you
did, please add a FIX: prefix to the report titled so they can be flagged.
However, what do we do
Well, always good to anticipate future-proofing. :)
On another note, as I promised you last week I did ask Ben if RunRev
planned on open-sourcing the On-Rev real-time debugger. He's not sure
and will check with Kevin, but he did confirm my hunch that it requires
specific sockets open on the
On 16 May 2014, at 8:34 am, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote:
On another note, as I promised you last week I did ask Ben if RunRev planned
on open-sourcing the On-Rev real-time debugger. He's not sure and will check
with Kevin, but he did confirm my hunch that it requires
Charles E Buchwald wrote:
Mike, I did follow the whole [Off] Cool Plugins thread. I was a
bit disappointed that it kind of petered out after several people
expressed an interest in helping.
I wouldn't be too disappointed. Things ebb and flow; we all have many
things to do. But two very
On 5/15/14, 12:59 PM, Dar Scott wrote:
It is awkward to move off the keyboard while editing a script to
hover over a control in the Object Inspector waiting for it to take
so I can see the name of the property.
You can select go the the General pane in preferences, look for
Property labels
On 5/15/14, 10:35 AM, Devin Asay wrote:
The locked of the properties palette for each object is separate and
persistent.
From what I can see, cards and stacks selected from the app browser
will open a locked inspector (anything in the left-hand pane.) Objects
on a card (anything in the
Thanks for your considered and thorough answer, Richard.
As a footnote, I posted another little plugin I made. I've been working with
HTML a lot, and the itch I've been scratching with it is having to switch
between HTMLtext and styledText, and sometimes look up LC-legal HTML entities.
The
Yeah, I was aware of that, but never tried it. I’m afraid I’d get very
confused. I should be brave.
Also, I’m greedy and want both. I’ll try what you suggest and see if that is
too greedy.
Dar
Dar Scott Consulting
d...@swcp.com
Helping LiveCode programers with Externals and Libraries
On
Devin Asay wrote
[snip]
Yes, I agree that sometimes concepts are too complex to describe in a
short, neat label. But in the interface, perhaps the menu could show the
effect of the ink visually, or maybe there could be a help button that
would pop up a list explaining the inks in simple
You're right, the results aren't predictable, as you've seen, since
object-level effects are modified when compounded by an effect applied to
a containing group. Color sometimes plays factor too.
But realistically, there aren't that many results that are useful.
Generally, I've found the
On May 13, 2014, at 9:57 PM, Alejandro Tejada capellan2...@gmail.com wrote:
Richard Gaskin wrote
[snip]
These are basic tasks we should expect to be done efficiently and
without error. They require no celebration. Don't even mention them
unless something goes wrong. Otherwise, as long
On May 14, 2014, at 10:00 AM, Devin Asay devin_a...@byu.edu wrote:
Closely related: Why are lock size and lock location controlled by a single
property?
Good question. The good news is that it is now possible to group a single
object.
Dar Scott
Libraries and Externals
d...@swcp.com
On 14/05/14 19:26, Dar Scott wrote:
On May 14, 2014, at 10:00 AM, Devin Asay devin_a...@byu.edu wrote:
Closely related: Why are lock size and lock location controlled by a single
property?
Good question. The good news is that it is now possible to group a single
object.
What?
I grouped a
Yeah, I goofed.
No sleep. I was getting confused with grouping a group. It can be done, but I
don’t know how with the IDE.
Dar
On May 14, 2014, at 11:35 AM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:
On 14/05/14 19:26, Dar Scott wrote:
On May 14, 2014, at 10:00 AM, Devin Asay
On May 14, 2014, at 10:26 AM, Dar Scott d...@swcp.com wrote:
On May 14, 2014, at 10:00 AM, Devin Asay devin_a...@byu.edu wrote:
Closely related: Why are lock size and lock location controlled by a single
property?
Good question. The good news is that it is now possible to group a
One thing that confused the heck out of me at the start is how the menu bar
changes depending on whether a stack or the script editor is in front (this
is on OSX).
When in the script editor, the menu bar shows File, Edit, Debug, Handler,
Window, Help and the File menu has no entries to open a
On May 14, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Peter Haworth p...@lcsql.com
wrote:
One thing that confused the heck out of me at the start is how the menu bar
changes depending on whether a stack or the script editor is in front (this
is on OSX).
When in the script editor, the menu bar shows File, Edit,
Actually, new users wants that LiveCode IDE
looks and behave as their own favorite
software...
So a Graphic Designer wants that Livecode looks
and behave like Photoshop, Ilustrator, Flash, etc.
A MS Office needs that LiveCode adopt all the
conventions of these products...
The 3D artist wants...
On May 14, 2014, at 3:31 PM, Alejandro Tejada capellan2...@gmail.com
wrote:
Actually, new users wants that LiveCode IDE
looks and behave as their own favorite
software...
So a Graphic Designer wants that Livecode looks
and behave like Photoshop, Ilustrator, Flash, etc.
A MS Office
On 5/14/14, 1:04 PM, Devin Asay wrote:
I'd like to keep the focus of this thread on things in the LiveCode
IDE that are odd, inconsistent, or confusing to the new user.
I know there are a hundred things like that. Problem is, I'm so used to
working around them that I can't think of what they
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Dar Scott d...@swcp.com wrote:
No sleep. I was getting confused with grouping a group. It can be done,
but I don’t know how with the IDE.
Group two things, and delete one.
I've stumbled across *empty* groups hanging around in my stacks . . .
--
Dr.
Thanks for this Dar - I like it very much :)
Dar Scott wrote
Sure. Here is a belabored example of my style of tenacious I/O.
-
Some are born coders, some achieve coding, and some have coding thrust upon
them. - William Shakespeare Hugh Senior
--
View this message in context:
Peter M. Brigham wrote:
Someone on this list (Richard Gaskin?) once observed that the
difference between a tool and a product is that a tool only has
to be able to be used properly, whereas a product has to be unable
to be used improperly.
I wish I could take credit for that, but that slice
Richard Gaskin wrote
[snip]
These are basic tasks we should expect to be done efficiently and
without error. They require no celebration. Don't even mention them
unless something goes wrong. Otherwise, as long as the computer is
doing what we expect it to do, please just shut up and let
I've been having a horrible experience with the United States Internal Revenue
Service website--trying just to set up an account in order to download a pdf of
a previous year's return.
Every attempt (at least 6) over two days ended somewhere along the process with:
A technical problem
snip
Idiot programmers. Maybe the same ones who did the Obamacare website. Grr.
Peter Bogdanoff
UCLA
Yes; a program is only so good as its programmers have made it; so Donald
Norman's anthropomorphic heresy
piling all the blame on some machine is ridiculous.
Nowadays we don't have bad
On 5/11/14, 7:49 PM, Dar Scott wrote:
Sure. Here is a belabored example of my style of tenacious I/O.
Good stuff, thanks for writing that up. I need to pay more attention to
this kind of thing. It's way too easy to pop up a dialog and tell the
user they're wrong, and that's not a great
Someone on this list (Richard Gaskin?) once observed that the difference
between a tool and a product is that a tool only has to be able to be used
properly, whereas a product has to be unable to be used improperly. A
well-designed application should anticipate as much as possible users' likely
On 11/05/14 21:48, Alejandro Tejada wrote:
Recent article published by Don Norman.
http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/error_messages_are_e.html
Error messages punish people for not behaving like machines.
It is time we let people behave like people. When a problem
arises, we should call it machine
Call me a naysayer, but I think the premise is nonsense. Only a perfect machine
could conform to those standards, and there is no perfect machine. All will
have or develop problems, and to not inform the user when that happens is
irresponsible at best, and disastrous at worse. And it doesn’t
Probably, the point of Mr. Donald Norman is:
Reduce as much as possible the chance of
human error... (Richmond wrote about this
key concept in a previous message: affordance)
http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/affordances_and.html
A truly collaborative system would tell me the requirements
before I did
Ah, I have much to learn.
I said, “The house was painted red.”
I should have said, “The house was painted redly.”
Dar
On May 11, 2014, at 1:43 PM, Richmond richmondmathew...@gmail.com wrote:
On 11/05/14 21:48, Alejandro Tejada wrote:
Recent article published by Don Norman.
Often I design communications without error responses to commands. Instead
there is state information while the underlying system is working doggedly to
make what you wanted work.
On May 11, 2014, at 12:48 PM, Alejandro Tejada capellan2...@gmail.com wrote:
Recent article published by Don
-Original Message-
From: Bob Sneidar bobsnei...@iotecdigital.com
To: How to use LiveCode use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Sent: Sun, May 11, 2014 4:49 pm
Subject: Re: Error Messages Are Evil
Call me a naysayer, but I think the premise is nonsense. Only a perfect machine
could conform to those
I'm interested. Can I get an example? I know Apple discourages error dialogs
now.
On May 11, 2014 5:44:47 PM CDT, Dar Scott d...@swcp.com wrote:
Often I design communications without error responses to commands.
Instead there is state information while the underlying system is
working
Perfect example - signing up for an account online and getting an error
because your password didn't meet the site 's rules which they didn't
reveal to start with. That's evil!
Pete
lcSQL Software
On May 11, 2014 2:24 PM, Alejandro Tejada capellan2...@gmail.com wrote:
Probably, the point of
Sure. Here is a belabored example of my style of tenacious I/O.
I typically start one each of a communications “machine with prefixStart
command and stop it with prefixStop. The status is available though a status
function and notification of the status change by a callback.
A very simple
Dar-
Do not go gently into that good night.
--
-Mark Wieder
ahsoftw...@gmail.com
This communication may be unlawfully collected and stored by the National
Security Agency (NSA) in secret. The parties to this email do not
consent to the retrieving or storing of this communication and any
Long ago, deep in a previous century, I set up a Cromemco or MITS Altair for my
secretary to do some word processing while I was out.
When I came back, she was in tears. The computer told her, “Invalid! Jump to!”
I looked at the screen. At the bottom was the line “Invalid jump to .”
On 05/12/2014 01:41 AM, Dar Scott wrote:
Ah, I have much to learn.
I said, “The house was painted red.”
I should have said, “The house was painted redly.”
LOL!
You made my Monday a thousand times more cheerful.
Thanks so much.
Richmond.
Dar
On May 11, 2014, at 1:43 PM, Richmond
I also meant to say that to imagine one could predict every kind of erroneous
user input or machine fault and program around it is easy, but it’s just our
imagination. In reality, it is a great deal more difficult to do. I remember
articles written when Hypercard was rolled out, about how much
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