date:20160620

You'd have to code a method to do what you want using linkclicked. When a
text link in a field is clicked it fires a linkclicked message with one
parameter that contains the link text. If you want to place the contents of
the url into a different field, something like this in the field handler.

on linkclicked pUrl
 put url pUrl into field "destinationField"
end linkclicked

If I remember right, you must have the text of the field locked for this to
work.

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 8:28 AM, Klaus major-k  wrote:

> After reading this a second time, it looks I have misunderstood the actual
> problem, sorry...
>
> > Am 20.06.2016 um 15:41 schrieb Klaus major-k :
> >
> > Dag Ton,
> >
> >> Am 20.06.2016 um 15:22 schrieb tkuyp...@telenet.be <
> tkuyp...@publishingtools4u.com>:
> >>
> >> Is this a bug or am I missing something?
> >>
> >> I pasted the following URL into a field:
> >>
> >> click http://www.malamix.be/ClientData/88/234/35691/1313/1/Flyer%20Malamix%20Food%20Nederlands.pdf
> <
> http://www.malamix.be/ClientData/88/234/35691/1313/1/Flyer%20Malamix%20Food%20Nederlands.pdf>”>here
> for the full specs 
> >>
> >> Using a click on a button, I enter this into another textfield, where
> it shows as htmlText, so the link is invisible and the “here” is underlined
> and blue.
> >>
> >> (The field contains more info, which will be shown in a webshop which
> I’m filling with data.)
> >>
> >>
> >> Switching the field back and forward between html and the actual code
> works fine.
> >> But I need to show the link in a new window, so I add “ target=‘_blank’
> “ after the link:
> >> click http://www.malamix.be/ClientData/88/234/35691/1313/1/Flyer%20Malamix%20Food%20Nederlands.pdf
> <
> http://www.malamix.be/ClientData/88/234/35691/1313/1/Flyer%20Malamix%20Food%20Nederlands.pdf>”
> target=‘_blank'>here for the full specs 
> >>
> >> And when I switch between the visual text and the html-code, the
> target-part is gone…
> >>
> >> I’m using LC 0.01, but the same result in 8.02 rc2.
> >>
> >> Bug or “hidden feature”?
> >
> > as far as I remember, and that goes back to MetaCard 2.0 :-), this has
> never been working
> > out of the box unless you add a "on linkclicked tLink..." handler to the
> fields script.
> >
> >> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> >> Warm Regards,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ton Kuypers
> >> +32 (0) 477 739 530
> >>
> >> Steenweg op Leopoldsburg 100 • B-2490 • Balen • Belgium
> >> www.publishingtools4u.com 
> >
> > Groetjes
> >
> > Klaus
> >
> > --
> > Klaus Major
> > http://www.major-k.de
> > kl...@major-k.de
> >
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> http://www.major-k.de
> kl...@major-k.de
>
>
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Re: Get url "file:///..."

2016-06-20 Thread [-hh]

Assuming you are on a Mac: 
The following should work from 10.4 to 10.12 with LC 5/6/7/8.

on mouseUp
  put "/Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm"
into f
  put "source" into sOrT --> one of "source", "text", "URL"
  do iScript(f, sOrT) as applescript
  put the result into fld 1
end mouseUp

Using above "text" instead of "source" may save you some work.
(The LC interpretation as htmltext does the same but somehow 'uncomplete').

function iScript f,x
  put numToChar(34) into q
  return "tell application " &  q&"Safari"  & \
"   open POSIX file " &  q(f)  & \
"   set rslt to " & x & " of document 1" & \
"end tell"
end iScript




--
View this message in context: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Get-url-file-tp4705988p4706007.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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[OT] remote Mac rental services

2016-06-20 Thread Nicolas Cueto

Could remote Mac rental services be used for iOS app development and
testing from a Windows machine? Has anyone here successfully tried out this
route -- perhaps, for example, through (top Google search result)
http://www.macincloud.com/ ?

Never heard of these services until they were incidentally named in a
recent thread.

For what it's worth, I did have a brief experience building at home on a
Mac mini but that was years ago. But, now, rather than having to update my
mini (I'd have to, right?), and, more importantly, to have the option of
working outside home on my Windows laptop, I'm hoping this remote option
might be a workable alternative.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

--
Nicolas Cueto
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Re: Get url "file:///..."

2016-06-20 Thread J. Landman Gay

I generally put parentheses around the quoted file path. That forces the 
engine to treat it as a container rather than a string.


Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



On June 20, 2016 8:39:16 PM Jim Hurley  wrote:


Thanks for all the suggestions. So far no luck with any.

No combination of back slashes work, and urlDecode() simply returns the 
file name.


Sarfari opens the file with no difficulty.

Apparently Sarfari does something that LiveCode's  "get Url" doesn't.

Jim


Dar Scott wrote:

Yeah, checking 'the result' sounds like a good idea.

I don't have a problem with ///, though, on my macOS (as we say instead of 
OS X these days).  Maybe that part depends on the OS.


I have a feeling that we might be missing the core of the problem.




On Jun 20, 2016, at 6:39 PM, Mike Bonner  wrote:

Ah. A combination of both.  get url urldecode(" file:/Users/jimhurley/
Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm")  Still need to get
rid of the extra //.  If you check the result on fail it'll probably say
"can't open file". You'll need to urldecode to set the folder too if you
decide to go that way.

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Dar Scott  wrote:


urlDecode() ?


On Jun 20, 2016, at 5:54 PM, Jim Hurley 

wrote:


I got this web page address from the county election's office:



file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm


It opens when I paste  it into the address field in Safari.

But

 get url

"file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm"


in Live Code leaves "it" empty.

I need to get the source code (programmatically) so that I may parse

"it" for voter results.


Is there something I can do to the address that would make it acceptable

to LiveCode's: get url


Jim



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Re: Get url "file:///..."

> On 21 Jun 2016, at 11:37 AM, Jim Hurley  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for all the suggestions. So far no luck with any.
> 
> No combination of back slashes work, and urlDecode() simply returns the file 
> name.
> 
> Sarfari opens the file with no difficulty.
> 
> Apparently Sarfari does something that LiveCode's  "get Url" doesn't.

It is a quirk/anomaly of our language that file, binfile and resfile urls are 
not RFC1630 compliant. I’m pretty sure they were implemented before the RFC.. 
They are presumed to not be URL encoded and to not include “//[]“. Unixes 
should cope fine with the extra “//“. They won’t like the URL encode path 
though.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Get url "file:///..."

Great minds

>
> You might want to get rid of any control characters that got caught in the
> string as you did a copy and paste.
>
>
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Re: Get url "file:///..."

Strange.  So, this sequence doesn't work?

If you do this..

get url
urldecode("file:/Users/jimHurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm)")
put the result && it

(on windows this works for me: get url
urldecode("file:/Users/Mike/Desktop/test%20me/steering.txt"); put it && the
result )


If it works the result will be empty and you'll see the contents of the
file.

If it doesn't work, hopefully the result will show the error.


Did you try setting the folder method?

set the folder to
urldecode("/Users/jimHurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts")
get url "file:241.htm"
put the result && it

(on windows this works for me: get url
urldecode("file:/Users/Mike/Desktop/test%20me/steering.txt"); put it && the
result )


I"m starting to wonder.. Did you copy and paste in the path? If so, maybe
something got lost in translation.  (I've seen a few instances where
pasting things into the script editor broke it in a big way)

Another question.. the elec_web folder.. Is it a local folder, or a network
share mapped to a directory?

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 7:37 PM, Jim Hurley 
wrote:

> Thanks for all the suggestions. So far no luck with any.
>
> No combination of back slashes work, and urlDecode() simply returns the
> file name.
>
> Sarfari opens the file with no difficulty.
>
> Apparently Sarfari does something that LiveCode's  "get Url" doesn't.
>
> Jim
>
> > Dar Scott wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, checking 'the result' sounds like a good idea.
> >
> > I don't have a problem with ///, though, on my macOS (as we say instead
> of OS X these days).  Maybe that part depends on the OS.
> >
> > I have a feeling that we might be missing the core of the problem.
> >
>
> > On Jun 20, 2016, at 6:39 PM, Mike Bonner  wrote:
> >
> > Ah. A combination of both.  get url urldecode(" file:/Users/jimhurley/
> > Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm")  Still need to get
> > rid of the extra //.  If you check the result on fail it'll probably say
> > "can't open file". You'll need to urldecode to set the folder too if you
> > decide to go that way.
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Dar Scott  wrote:
> >
> >> urlDecode() ?
> >>
> >>> On Jun 20, 2016, at 5:54 PM, Jim Hurley 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I got this web page address from the county election's office:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm
> >>>
> >>> It opens when I paste  it into the address field in Safari.
> >>>
> >>> But
> >>>
> >>>  get url
> >>
> "file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm"
> >>>
> >>> in Live Code leaves "it" empty.
> >>>
> >>> I need to get the source code (programmatically) so that I may parse
> >> "it" for voter results.
> >>>
> >>> Is there something I can do to the address that would make it
> acceptable
> >> to LiveCode's: get url
> >>>
> >>> Jim
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
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Re: Get url "file:///..."

2016-06-20 Thread Dar Scott

I think urlDecode() should convert the %20 to a space.   I don't think it would 
do more to the path you mentioned.  

You can check whether 'the result' is something other than "can't open file".  

You might try saving the attachment to another location and getting it from 
there.

You might try putting an 'answer file' just before the get to obtain the path.  

You might want to get rid of any control characters that got caught in the 
string as you did a copy and paste.  

Obviously, I'm running out of ideas and am babbling.  



> On Jun 20, 2016, at 7:37 PM, Jim Hurley  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for all the suggestions. So far no luck with any.
> 
> No combination of back slashes work, and urlDecode() simply returns the file 
> name.
> 
> Sarfari opens the file with no difficulty.
> 
> Apparently Sarfari does something that LiveCode's  "get Url" doesn't.
> 
> Jim
> 
>> Dar Scott wrote:
>> 
>> Yeah, checking 'the result' sounds like a good idea.  
>> 
>> I don't have a problem with ///, though, on my macOS (as we say instead of 
>> OS X these days).  Maybe that part depends on the OS.  
>> 
>> I have a feeling that we might be missing the core of the problem.  
>> 
> 
>> On Jun 20, 2016, at 6:39 PM, Mike Bonner  wrote:
>> 
>> Ah. A combination of both.  get url urldecode(" file:/Users/jimhurley/
>> Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm")  Still need to get
>> rid of the extra //.  If you check the result on fail it'll probably say
>> "can't open file". You'll need to urldecode to set the folder too if you
>> decide to go that way.
>> 
>> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Dar Scott  wrote:
>> 
>>> urlDecode() ?
>>> 
 On Jun 20, 2016, at 5:54 PM, Jim Hurley 
>>> wrote:
 
 I got this web page address from the county election's office:
 
 
>>> file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm
 
 It opens when I paste  it into the address field in Safari.
 
 But
 
 get url
>>> "file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm"
 
 in Live Code leaves "it" empty.
 
 I need to get the source code (programmatically) so that I may parse
>>> "it" for voter results.
 
 Is there something I can do to the address that would make it acceptable
>>> to LiveCode's: get url
 
 Jim
 
 
 
 ___
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 use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
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Disabling menu items in iOS?

2016-06-20 Thread Terry Judd

It¹s not possible to disable items in an iOS menu (mobilePick) is it?

Regards,

Terry... 


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Re: quirk in group resize behavior


> On 21 Jun 2016, at 9:55 AM, Terry Judd  wrote:
> 
> Yeah, I often get caught out resizing groups and finding that I¹m adding
> unnecessary/unexpected space or cutting off controls when really what I
> want to do is anchor the child controls on one or two axes when I grow or
> shrink the group. Being able to set a reference edge or corner (L, T, R,
> B, TL, TR, BL, BR) and hold that stable when you resized the group would
> be cool with the default behaviour being as it is already (resizing around
> the current loc?).

Hmm… interesting idea… Something like:
resize  to  relative to {topLeft | topRight | bottomRight | 
bottomLeft}

While possibly handy I’m not convinced it resolves the issue because no matter 
what new syntax we add if something as fundamental as setting the rect has 
undefined behavior then it’s going to cause trouble…

Cheers

Monte
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Re: quirk in group resize behavior

> On 21 Jun 2016, at 10:00 AM, Colin Holgate  wrote:
> 
> Perhaps it could use the same terminology, and work the same way, as full 
> screen modes. The current behavior is effectively noScale, and with exactFit, 
> noBorder, showAll, and letterbox, you could move the contents in the expected 
> way. Could even use the arithmetic from the full screen mode code.

Hmm… While transformed groups would be cool (I’m sure Richard will chime in on 
that) they introduce some difficult to deal with issues around object rects. 
For example if you get the rect of an object in a scaled group do you get the 
transformed rect or the untransformed rect? Do you get something different 
depending on whether the code requesting it is within the group or outside it? 
How do we deal the inevitable with sub-pixel points you would end up with if 
you had transformed values… Lots of fairly complicated stuff. I personally 
think it would be better/easier to have a stack view control as I think those 
issues could be dealt with in a saner way in that context.

Having said all that I think this is a bit of a tangent from the issue we need 
to work out which is the behavior of resizing a group when the bottomLeft is 
maintained.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Get url "file:///..."

2016-06-20 Thread Jim Hurley

Thanks for all the suggestions. So far no luck with any.

No combination of back slashes work, and urlDecode() simply returns the file 
name.

Sarfari opens the file with no difficulty.

Apparently Sarfari does something that LiveCode's  "get Url" doesn't.

Jim

> Dar Scott wrote:
> 
> Yeah, checking 'the result' sounds like a good idea.  
> 
> I don't have a problem with ///, though, on my macOS (as we say instead of OS 
> X these days).  Maybe that part depends on the OS.  
> 
> I have a feeling that we might be missing the core of the problem.  
> 

> On Jun 20, 2016, at 6:39 PM, Mike Bonner  wrote:
> 
> Ah. A combination of both.  get url urldecode(" file:/Users/jimhurley/
> Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm")  Still need to get
> rid of the extra //.  If you check the result on fail it'll probably say
> "can't open file". You'll need to urldecode to set the folder too if you
> decide to go that way.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Dar Scott  wrote:
> 
>> urlDecode() ?
>> 
>>> On Jun 20, 2016, at 5:54 PM, Jim Hurley 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I got this web page address from the county election's office:
>>> 
>>> 
>> file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm
>>> 
>>> It opens when I paste  it into the address field in Safari.
>>> 
>>> But
>>> 
>>>  get url
>> "file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm"
>>> 
>>> in Live Code leaves "it" empty.
>>> 
>>> I need to get the source code (programmatically) so that I may parse
>> "it" for voter results.
>>> 
>>> Is there something I can do to the address that would make it acceptable
>> to LiveCode's: get url
>>> 
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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Re: Get url "file:///..."

On windows, I can't make it work with the extra ///, so it does appear that
os matters.Hopefully the result will give a clue

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 6:52 PM, Dar Scott  wrote:

> Yeah, checking 'the result' sounds like a good idea.
>
> I don't have a problem with ///, though, on my macOS (as we say instead of
> OS X these days).  Maybe that part depends on the OS.
>
> I have a feeling that we might be missing the core of the problem.
>
>
> > On Jun 20, 2016, at 6:39 PM, Mike Bonner  wrote:
> >
> > Ah. A combination of both.  get url urldecode(" file:/Users/jimhurley/
> > Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm")  Still need to get
> > rid of the extra //.  If you check the result on fail it'll probably say
> > "can't open file". You'll need to urldecode to set the folder too if you
> > decide to go that way.
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Dar Scott  wrote:
> >
> >> urlDecode() ?
> >>
> >>> On Jun 20, 2016, at 5:54 PM, Jim Hurley 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I got this web page address from the county election's office:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm
> >>>
> >>> It opens when I paste  it into the address field in Safari.
> >>>
> >>> But
> >>>
> >>>  get url
> >>
> "file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm"
> >>>
> >>> in Live Code leaves "it" empty.
> >>>
> >>> I need to get the source code (programmatically) so that I may parse
> >> "it" for voter results.
> >>>
> >>> Is there something I can do to the address that would make it
> acceptable
> >> to LiveCode's: get url
> >>>
> >>> Jim
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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Re: Get url "file:///..."

2016-06-20 Thread Dar Scott

Yeah, checking 'the result' sounds like a good idea.  

I don't have a problem with ///, though, on my macOS (as we say instead of OS X 
these days).  Maybe that part depends on the OS.  

I have a feeling that we might be missing the core of the problem.  


> On Jun 20, 2016, at 6:39 PM, Mike Bonner  wrote:
> 
> Ah. A combination of both.  get url urldecode(" file:/Users/jimhurley/
> Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm")  Still need to get
> rid of the extra //.  If you check the result on fail it'll probably say
> "can't open file". You'll need to urldecode to set the folder too if you
> decide to go that way.
> 
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Dar Scott  wrote:
> 
>> urlDecode() ?
>> 
>>> On Jun 20, 2016, at 5:54 PM, Jim Hurley 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I got this web page address from the county election's office:
>>> 
>>> 
>> file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm
>>> 
>>> It opens when I paste  it into the address field in Safari.
>>> 
>>> But
>>> 
>>>  get url
>> "file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm"
>>> 
>>> in Live Code leaves "it" empty.
>>> 
>>> I need to get the source code (programmatically) so that I may parse
>> "it" for voter results.
>>> 
>>> Is there something I can do to the address that would make it acceptable
>> to LiveCode's: get url
>>> 
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> subscription preferences:
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Re: Get url "file:///..."

Ah. A combination of both.  get url urldecode(" file:/Users/jimhurley/
Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm")  Still need to get
rid of the extra //.  If you check the result on fail it'll probably say
"can't open file". You'll need to urldecode to set the folder too if you
decide to go that way.

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Dar Scott  wrote:

> urlDecode() ?
>
> > On Jun 20, 2016, at 5:54 PM, Jim Hurley 
> wrote:
> >
> > I got this web page address from the county election's office:
> >
> >
>  file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm
> >
> > It opens when I paste  it into the address field in Safari.
> >
> > But
> >
> >   get url
> "file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm"
> >
> > in Live Code leaves "it" empty.
> >
> > I need to get the source code (programmatically) so that I may parse
> "it" for voter results.
> >
> > Is there something I can do to the address that would make it acceptable
> to LiveCode's: get url
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: Get url "file:///..."

2016-06-20 Thread Dar Scott

urlDecode() ?

> On Jun 20, 2016, at 5:54 PM, Jim Hurley  wrote:
> 
> I got this web page address from the county election's office:
> 
>   file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm
> 
> It opens when I paste  it into the address field in Safari.
> 
> But 
> 
>   get url 
> "file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm"
> 
> in Live Code leaves "it" empty.
> 
> I need to get the source code (programmatically) so that I may parse "it" for 
> voter results.
> 
> Is there something I can do to the address that would make it acceptable to 
> LiveCode's: get url 
> 
> Jim 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Get url "file:///..."

Oh. Another bonus to setting the default folder is that if there are
muitiple files to pars, you can "get the files" and loop through then
easily.(Not that you couldn't do it without setting the folder, but...)

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 6:00 PM, Mike Bonner  wrote:

> Try changing it to this: file:/Users/jimhurley/
> Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm
>
> Alternatively, you can probably use a browser widget and set the url to
> file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm
> then get the htmltext of the browser widget, (since it knows how to handle
> file:///... type urls) but just eliminating the superfluous // should help.
>
> Yet another option.  Set the default folder to "/Users/jimhurley/
> Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts"
> at which point you can simply: get URL "file:241.htm"
>
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 5:54 PM, Jim Hurley 
> wrote:
>
>> I got this web page address from the county election's office:
>>
>>
>>  file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm
>>
>> It opens when I paste  it into the address field in Safari.
>>
>> But
>>
>>get url
>> "file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm"
>>
>> in Live Code leaves "it" empty.
>>
>> I need to get the source code (programmatically) so that I may parse "it"
>> for voter results.
>>
>> Is there something I can do to the address that would make it acceptable
>> to LiveCode's: get url
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
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>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
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>
>
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Re: quirk in group resize behavior

2016-06-20 Thread Colin Holgate

Perhaps it could use the same terminology, and work the same way, as full 
screen modes. The current behavior is effectively noScale, and with exactFit, 
noBorder, showAll, and letterbox, you could move the contents in the expected 
way. Could even use the arithmetic from the full screen mode code.

Of course, that does assume you’re able to scale controls.

> On Jun 20, 2016, at 7:17 PM, Monte Goulding  wrote:
> 
> Hi Folks
> 
> One of the recent issues in the IDE caused us to discover/rediscover a quirk 
> in group resize behavior that I think would be worthwhile getting feedback on 
> from the community. I’m personally struggling to come up with a use case for 
> it although there very likely is/was one. Perhaps one of the newer group 
> properties resolved the use case in a better way.
> 
> When you resize a group using the selection handles the controls inside stay 
> where they are. This is quite helpful. The code that does that also has an 
> extra condition which means the controls inside the group will also stay 
> where they are if resizing an unselected group via code but not changing the 
> bottomRight of the rect. This essentially makes the group appear scrolled 
> even though the scroll property is unchanged. At the very least this behavior 
> needs to be documented, however, I can’t help feeling that it is unexpected 
> behavior and a reliable rule of changing the topLeft of a group shifting its 
> controls that amount would be more helpful.
> 
> An example of this issue can be seen in the script editor in the IDE where 
> when you use the resizer to alter the width of the handler list the 
> interactive find is not moving correctly. This is because the amount being 
> added/subtracted to the topLeft of the group is the exact same amount being 
> subtracted/added to the bottomRight.
> 
> The code making it do this is unchanged since LiveCode went open source. I 
> expect it has been this way for a very long time and I have a feeling that I 
> know why at one point… If it is something that people depend on than it may 
> be we can only document as an anomaly or would need to add an extra group 
> property to override it.
> 
> Any thoughts from the community would be appreciated.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
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Re: Get url "file:///..."

Try changing it to this: file:/Users/jimhurley/
Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm

Alternatively, you can probably use a browser widget and set the url to
file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm
then get the htmltext of the browser widget, (since it knows how to handle
file:///... type urls) but just eliminating the superfluous // should help.

Yet another option.  Set the default folder to "/Users/jimhurley/
Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts"
at which point you can simply: get URL "file:241.htm"

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 5:54 PM, Jim Hurley 
wrote:

> I got this web page address from the county election's office:
>
>
>  file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm
>
> It opens when I paste  it into the address field in Safari.
>
> But
>
>get url
> "file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm"
>
> in Live Code leaves "it" empty.
>
> I need to get the source code (programmatically) so that I may parse "it"
> for voter results.
>
> Is there something I can do to the address that would make it acceptable
> to LiveCode's: get url
>
> Jim
>
>
>
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Re: quirk in group resize behavior

2016-06-20 Thread Terry Judd

Yeah, I often get caught out resizing groups and finding that I¹m adding
unnecessary/unexpected space or cutting off controls when really what I
want to do is anchor the child controls on one or two axes when I grow or
shrink the group. Being able to set a reference edge or corner (L, T, R,
B, TL, TR, BL, BR) and hold that stable when you resized the group would
be cool with the default behaviour being as it is already (resizing around
the current loc?).

Terry...

On 21/06/2016 9:17 am, "use-livecode on behalf of Monte Goulding"

wrote:

>Hi Folks
>
>One of the recent issues in the IDE caused us to discover/rediscover a
>quirk in group resize behavior that I think would be worthwhile getting
>feedback on from the community. I¹m personally struggling to come up with
>a use case for it although there very likely is/was one. Perhaps one of
>the newer group properties resolved the use case in a better way.
>
>When you resize a group using the selection handles the controls inside
>stay where they are. This is quite helpful. The code that does that also
>has an extra condition which means the controls inside the group will
>also stay where they are if resizing an unselected group via code but not
>changing the bottomRight of the rect. This essentially makes the group
>appear scrolled even though the scroll property is unchanged. At the very
>least this behavior needs to be documented, however, I can¹t help feeling
>that it is unexpected behavior and a reliable rule of changing the
>topLeft of a group shifting its controls that amount would be more
>helpful.
>
>An example of this issue can be seen in the script editor in the IDE
>where when you use the resizer to alter the width of the handler list the
>interactive find is not moving correctly. This is because the amount
>being added/subtracted to the topLeft of the group is the exact same
>amount being subtracted/added to the bottomRight.
>
>The code making it do this is unchanged since LiveCode went open source.
>I expect it has been this way for a very long time and I have a feeling
>that I know why at one pointŠ If it is something that people depend on
>than it may be we can only document as an anomaly or would need to add an
>extra group property to override it.
>
>Any thoughts from the community would be appreciated.
>
>Cheers
>
>Monte
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Get url "file:///..."

2016-06-20 Thread Jim Hurley

I got this web page address from the county election's office:

   file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm

It opens when I paste  it into the address field in Safari.

But 

   get url 
"file:///Users/jimhurley/Library/Mail%20Downloads/elec_web/precincts/241.htm"

in Live Code leaves "it" empty.

I need to get the source code (programmatically) so that I may parse "it" for 
voter results.

Is there something I can do to the address that would make it acceptable to 
LiveCode's: get url 

Jim 



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quirk in group resize behavior

Hi Folks

One of the recent issues in the IDE caused us to discover/rediscover a quirk in 
group resize behavior that I think would be worthwhile getting feedback on from 
the community. I’m personally struggling to come up with a use case for it 
although there very likely is/was one. Perhaps one of the newer group 
properties resolved the use case in a better way.

When you resize a group using the selection handles the controls inside stay 
where they are. This is quite helpful. The code that does that also has an 
extra condition which means the controls inside the group will also stay where 
they are if resizing an unselected group via code but not changing the 
bottomRight of the rect. This essentially makes the group appear scrolled even 
though the scroll property is unchanged. At the very least this behavior needs 
to be documented, however, I can’t help feeling that it is unexpected behavior 
and a reliable rule of changing the topLeft of a group shifting its controls 
that amount would be more helpful.

An example of this issue can be seen in the script editor in the IDE where when 
you use the resizer to alter the width of the handler list the interactive find 
is not moving correctly. This is because the amount being added/subtracted to 
the topLeft of the group is the exact same amount being subtracted/added to the 
bottomRight.

The code making it do this is unchanged since LiveCode went open source. I 
expect it has been this way for a very long time and I have a feeling that I 
know why at one point… If it is something that people depend on than it may be 
we can only document as an anomaly or would need to add an extra group property 
to override it.

Any thoughts from the community would be appreciated.

Cheers

Monte
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[OT] Morphos


This is 100% OT: you've been warned.

I installed Morphos 3.9 on my G4 Mac mini based on 2 premises:

1. The Morphos website describes the OS as Free.

[It is "Free" insofar as it will continue functioning without payment 
but throttles
down to an absolutely glacial speed without what is initially described 
as "registration"

but is then followed by a demand for money.]

2. It should be faster than Lubuntu PPC (which is glacial),
and use resources better than Mac OS 10.4.11.

Blow me down, but the Morphos people then expect me to pay
79 Euros via PayPal for Morphos.

So, I'm going back to 10.4.11, and will upgrade its RAM from 256 MB to 1 
GB in the Summer;

at 24 Euros that makes Morphos look a bit . . .

Sorry, about the OT posting; just needed to sound off a bit.

Richmond.

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Re: Control? Object?




On 20.06.2016 19:58, Mark Waddingham wrote:

On 2016-06-20 16:38, Richmond wrote:

Thank you very much indeed for the comprehensive reply.

I shall deal with the children's confusion by using neither 'object'
or 'control' and
just refer to buttons, fields and so on.

I know this is dodging the issue; but I can see no other way round it
at the moment.


That seems entirely reasonable!

At the end of the day it is no different from the techniques I've 
observed myself being used used to teach many other 
what-you-might-call 'technical' disciplines


In Mathematics, we are taught 'Calculus' as almost a purely symbolic 
mechanism 


At Durham, the head of Philosophy in 1984 (Dr P.J.Fitzpatrick) a 
brilliant, mad and lovely man, lined
up a series of wine glasses filled to various depths with wine, and 
started tapping tunes out on them,
and if I understand anything about Calculus and Curves, it is down to 
his explanation, which
contextualised it in a way quite unlike our poor benighted Maths teacher 
at school who could
neither control teenage boys nor explain Calculus in any sort of way 
that made sense.


And, certainly, with the 8-14 year old crowd, 'symbolic', 'theoretical' 
and 'metaphorical' are

very dirty words indeed.

first (usually at age 17-18 in the UK) which comes with a whole load 
of 'edge cases' you just have to accept and then only in later years 
is it 're-explained' based on the epsilon-delta arguments of 
'Analysis' (usually at first year degree level). (Amusingly I remember 
having real trouble getting my head around the idea of epsilon-delta 
arguments - my head had been so entrenched in the computably finite 
world of computing at that point that 'tending to a limit' seemed a 
somewhat impossible notion).


I still haven't got my head round basic Calculus: and, oddly enough, 
have managed to make my way

in the world without having managed it.

One thing I have never quite understood is why it seems to be assumed 
that to program computers
(or, perhaps, we should say "programme computers" to keep Jerry Jensen's 
teeth grinding) one has to
have a fairly advanced knowledge of Maths, when all that seems to be 
necessary is a spot of basic

BODMAS (Brackets, Of, Divide, Multiply, Add, Subtract) and elementary LOGIC.



Similarly, I remember my first A-level Chemistry class (age 17) where 
we were told - "all you have been told up until now has been 'lies'" 
in particular with relation to the structure of the atom and bonding.


Indeed: I remember our Chemistry teacher telling us to forget 
"valencies" and start
learning about "oxidation states". In fact I remember getting sent out 
of the room because I,
inevitably, asked the obvious question: "If all you've taught us before 
is lies, why should we not assume

that what you are about to teach us is not another load of the same?"

Poor old Dr Lewis . . . while he had a doctorate from Sheffield in 
Non-Ferrous Metallic

something-or-others, he kept getting all those organic synthesis cycles
badly wrong, and he was totally useless when it came to working with 
adolescent boys.


As my father said: "Anyone with a doctorate in Chemistry who ends up 
teaching in a

secondary school . . ."

Well; I don't have a doctorate, and have no great academic pretensions; 
but what I do know
is that explaining things that computer programming involves to the 
middle-school crowd is

not particularly easy.

Probably the fancy academic qualifications are less important than an 
ability to enthuse young people

and communicate sufficient concepts to get them going.

As to "edge cases" . . . Ha, Ha, Ha; I could make a fairly offensive 
remark here; but won't, as,

necessarily, I'd have to include myself in that category :-)

Thanks, as always, for your support and your well thought-out replies.

Best, Richmond.




Warmest Regards,

Mark.




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How to open an attachment on iOS device in LC App?

2016-06-20 Thread Glen Bojsza

Hello everyone,

I am still trying to figure out how to open an email attachment on an iPad
/ iPhone by a LC app.

There is an option on an iPad or iPhone to all ow the user to select the
application they want to open an attached file.

Is this a configuration in the iOS Standalone Application Settings? or a
MergExt plugin?

My iOS app reads and updates sqlite database files and I want the users to
be able to share their files via email.

thanks,

Glen
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 38

Not true, my Trans-Atlantic friend. Nobody in the British Isles would
ever use the word "cussin'",

in Britain all one hears is constant cursing.

On 20.06.2016 19:16, Jerry Jensen wrote:

Fortunately, ‘cussing’ always has two ’s’, but sometimes no ‘g’.

On Jun 20, 2016, at 8:37 AM, Richmond wrote:

That certainly puts things in perspective.

Lovely job!

Richmond.

On 20.06.2016 17:56, [-hh] wrote:

Jerry D. wrote:

'Focusing' has only one 's'. Not two.

This is true, of course. And just the same:

'Focussing' has two 's'. Not only one.

--
View this message in context:
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Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: Control? Object?

2016-06-20 Thread Mark Waddingham


On 2016-06-20 14:48, David Bovill wrote:

Great post Mark. I'm going to keep that for my notes!

I've too tangentially related questions - mainly with regard to what it 
is
better to do with widgets and with script. You say "the ability to be 
able
to package up a group of controls as a black-box just like a widget 
would
be entirely consistent and self-similar with the existing environment." 
I'd

like to know what you are thinking :)

My question are:

  1) Does the ability / robustness of using compound widgets - vs doing 
the

same with groups make it a here and now option to do compound layouts
within widgets only? How does this relate to your "black box" comment
above. I ask because I do a lot of compound nested groups with 
behaviours,

and I am wandering what bits to shift o widget only.


Well, rewriting existing code probably should only be done *if there are 
tangible advantages to doing so*.


At present you cannot 'wrap up' existing LiveCode Script objects as a 
widget with an 'inner script' (which would be akin to the code you write 
for a widget right now). It is, however, something which would fit with 
the current model of LiveCode Script very well - when we can figure out 
how to do it.


Widgets are completely encapsulated (compared to Script groups with 
behaviors) which has numerous advantages for all kinds of 'leaf' 
controls (things which have no real substructure and are 'just' a 
rendering of data in some fashion). This is mainly because rendering is 
done 'on demand' so your widget can have as many graphical elements as 
you like, without the (sometimes significant!) overhead of many many 
controls you would need in LiveCode Script. (The advantages are not only 
down to lower overhead, but also editing in the IDE and grokking by 
Script - even though you can 'hide' substructure of LiveCode groups in 
the Project Browser, that are still part of the object tree from 
Script's point of view which means you do, at the very least, have to 
make sure you name things appropriately lest scripts accidentally manage 
to resolve a reference to one of the objects in one of your control's 
groups rather than one they meant to).


Basically, if you have group-based controls which are essentially just 
collections of graphics and areas to interact with the mouse and touch 
and don't require other script controls within them to be manipulated 
from outside the control then they would likely make good candidates for 
widgetization. In Script, you don't need to tweak properties of numerous 
objects whenever the data changes - you just issue a 'redraw all' inside 
the widget and the OnPaint handler causes the display to be updated.


For example, the Clock widget would consist of 16 internal controls if 
it were a LiveCode group-based control - and on each resize you'd have 
to work out all the scaling and positioning and set all the properties 
of each of those objects. As a widget, however, you set up the transform 
appropriately in OnPaint then just render to a unit-square based on the 
time which is currently set as a property. When the time changes, you 
just 'redraw all' and OnPaint triggers to update the display.



  2) Which animation and paint routines are significantly better with
Builder so that making a widget is preferable to doing the same with 
groups
and script. In particular how about rostering images, of doing 
animations?


As Builder uses the same image caching mechanism as Script, there isn't 
probably much performance difference between changing the id of an image 
to do animation compared to doing the same within a widget.


However, in Builder you have access to a full 2d Canvas API - including 
full affine transformations so you can do more in a widget with 
graphics, more easily. Also, the widget canvas you render to is 
completely sub-pixel based meaning you get a higher fidelity of display 
then you would get using graphics (as they currently are).


In terms of animation, one advantage of widgets is that the 'Timer' 
mechanism they currently have is entirely internal to the widget - you 
don't see any messages in the pending messages, and suspend and resume 
is automatically handled between Edit and Browse mode. This simplifies 
coding to a good degree as well as minimising any interaction with other 
scripts running and the internal operation of your widget (control).


So, if you have custom controls currently which are visualizations of 
some data, and don't require any user input beyond mouse interaction (or 
any at all) then they probably are really good candidates for turning 
into widgets.


I know Trevor has had great success in improving the UIs in his 
applications by using widgets as they allow him to much more easily 
create easy to use controls which render precisely how you need - what 
might require 3 or 4 graphics and a couple of fields before now, can be 
done with a single control. The latter simplifies the script view of the 
object tree, as well as

Re: Control? Object?

2016-06-20 Thread Mark Waddingham


On 2016-06-20 16:38, Richmond wrote:

Thank you very much indeed for the comprehensive reply.

I shall deal with the children's confusion by using neither 'object'
or 'control' and
just refer to buttons, fields and so on.

I know this is dodging the issue; but I can see no other way round it
at the moment.


That seems entirely reasonable!

At the end of the day it is no different from the techniques I've 
observed myself being used used to teach many other what-you-might-call 
'technical' disciplines


In Mathematics, we are taught 'Calculus' as almost a purely symbolic 
mechanism first (usually at age 17-18 in the UK) which comes with a 
whole load of 'edge cases' you just have to accept and then only in 
later years is it 're-explained' based on the epsilon-delta arguments of 
'Analysis' (usually at first year degree level). (Amusingly I remember 
having real trouble getting my head around the idea of epsilon-delta 
arguments - my head had been so entrenched in the computably finite 
world of computing at that point that 'tending to a limit' seemed a 
somewhat impossible notion).


Similarly, I remember my first A-level Chemistry class (age 17) where we 
were told - "all you have been told up until now has been 'lies'" in 
particular with relation to the structure of the atom and bonding.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 38

2016-06-20 Thread Jerry Jensen

Fortunately, ‘cussing’ always has two ’s’, but sometimes no ‘g’.

> On Jun 20, 2016, at 8:37 AM, Richmond  wrote:
> 
> That certainly puts things in perspective.
> 
> Lovely job!
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> On 20.06.2016 17:56, [-hh] wrote:
>> Jerry D. wrote:
>>> 'Focusing' has only one 's'. Not two.
>> This is true, of course. And just the same:
>> 
>> 'Focussing' has two 's'. Not only one.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-This-Week-in-LiveCode-38-tp4705958p4705975.html
>> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> 
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Re: Control? Object?

2016-06-20 Thread Devin Asay

Mark,

Thanks for this fantastic explanation of controls and objects and lots more. 
I’m happy to learn that what I’ve always thought I understood is not far off 
from reality. :) The definig of audioclips and videoclips as objects, not 
controls, within the stack tree, cleared up one point of confusion for me. I 
had always explained *clips to students as “objects that have no visual 
component.”

Now as regards any fixes and changes to terminology in the docs (Guides or 
dictionary API), I would be happy to help anyone who sees a confusing passage 
and who would like to fix it. I have recently been doing a fair amount of work 
as time permits to make improvements to the dictionary and user guides. If you 
see a problem in the docs and don’t have the time to grok the Github system, 
drop me a note and I’d be happy to help out.

Regards,

Devin


> On Jun 20, 2016, at 3:28 AM, Mark Waddingham  wrote:
> 
> On 2016-06-19 09:19, Richmond wrote:
>> I am currently teaching some children Livecode programming and ran
>> into some difficulty
>> on Friday when a child asked me why the menus were full of the word "Control"
>> when I had been talking about "Objects".
>> Well?
>> How about changing every use of the word "Control" to "Object"?
> 
> Replying to the original post, as a lot was mentioned in this thread (it 
> tries to cover most of what came up in the thread, not just this particular 
> question).
> 
> An object (regardless of what language it is rendered in, or with whatever 
> specific kind of 'oop' methodology you care to subscribe to) is simply some 
> state (i.e. variables which are distinct for each instance of the object) 
> with an associated list of handlers/methods/functions which act on that 
> state. (Indeed, really I think one should require that the state is entirely 
> hidden and encapsulated within the object and not visible from the outside 
> world - although most OOP languages do this very very poorly).
> 
> In LiveCode, this is perhaps slightly hidden behind the English-like 
> syntactic sugar. For example, one can imagine that:
> 
>   get the fooBar of myObject
> 
> Is the same as (in a non English-like language):
> 
>   it := myObject.GetFooBar()
> 
> Or something like:
> 
>   copy myObject
> 
> Is the same as (again, in a non English-like language):
> 
>   myObject.Copy()
> 
> Therefore, I have absolutely no hesitation in saying that LiveCode is 
> object-oriented (for some definition of object-oriented). Indeed, it always 
> has been - everyone who has ever programming in an xTalk had been doing 
> object-oriented programming since it started to become 'popular' (HyperCard 
> appeared in 1987, Cfront - the original C++ - appeared in 1985 - although the 
> first 'object oriented' languages such as Simula appeared perhaps a decade 
> before).
> 
> The reason why I tend to hesitate saying LiveCode is object-oriented 
> explicitly (well, up until 8, at least) is that the kind of way you do 
> programming in LiveCode is perhaps not quite the same as what people expect 
> when they hear that 'a language is object oriented'. The LiveCode model is 
> essentially that of aggregation and adaptation, rather than inheritance 
> (people tend to be highly aware of the later, but not aware of the former 
> even though they will be implicitly doing it day-in-day-out in any 
> programming language they are a practitioner of).
> 
> In LiveCode, you build applications by using the building-blocks you drag 
> from the control palette to build more complicated things (aggregation), and 
> then you apply scripts to each object to change the behavior of the 
> building-blocks appropriate to your app (adaptation).
> 
> Now, inheritance is orthogonal to the idea of aggregation and adaptation - 
> and it should be noted that most 'traditional' OOP languages allow you to do 
> inheritance, but you have to build the framework to do aggregation and 
> adaptation yourself (hence why Java, Obj-C, C++ etc. all have a large variety 
> of 'frameworks' you can leverage to actually build apps - if you tried to do 
> so with the 'raw' language, you'll find yourself just reinventing some sort 
> of structure which is probably not too dissimilar to LiveCode's).
> 
> When we added 'behaviors' you could argue that 'inheritance' did actually 
> start to creep in - behaviors allow you to factor out the code which you use 
> to adapt the building blocks (i.e. your scripts) into an informal hierarchy. 
> (Informal here refers to the fact you don't need to make type definitions - 
> which is entirely appropriate to LiveCode which tends not to force that kind 
> of thing on you anywhere - except in Builder, and only then if you really 
> want to).
> 
> With 8, however, you can start to see the 'class inheritance' ability being 
> added to LiveCode - that is what widgets are. i.e. You can write your own 
> building blocks (in LiveCode Builder). (For those of you who have looked at 
> Builder, then although it

Re: JSON not working in Standalones?

2016-06-20 Thread Ali Lloyd

> in 8.1.0 (dp 1) the new “Inclusions”-tab in the standalone settings is
disabled,
> so I can’t select anything there.

I suspect you may have the "search for inclusions" radio button selected
instead of the "select inclusions" one, in the General tab.

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 1:44 PM Ton Kuypers 
wrote:

> Yes, that part I already figured out ;-)
>
> But is there a way to add the JSON-part or all of the mergExt to a
> standalone right now?
>
>
> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Warm Regards,
>
>
>
> Ton Kuypers
> +32 (0) 477 739 530
>
> Steenweg op Leopoldsburg 100 • B-2490 • Balen • Belgium
> www.publishingtools4u.com
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 19 jun. 2016, at 00:30, Monte Goulding-2 [via Runtime Revolution] <
> ml-node+s278305n4705912...@n4.nabble.com> wrote:
> >
> > In 8.1.0 the mergExt externals are not yet being searched for so you
> need to manually select inclusions. Ali is working on a mechanism to allow
> searching for them.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Monte
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On 19 Jun 2016, at 4:19 AM, [hidden email]
>  <[hidden email]
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > In all but  8.1.0 (dp 1) I’ve included all extensions, in 8.1.0 (dp 1)
> the new “Inclusions”-tab in the standalone settings is disabled, so I can’t
> select anything there.
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: Control? Object?

Your students might be "the opposite of tech-savvy", but they are 
neither in the 8-14 age range, nor
native Bulgarian speakers (unless there is something you're not telling 
us about Utah).


R.

On 20.06.2016 18:33, Devin Asay wrote:

Yes, that’s true no doubt. But I think part of the reason it hasn’t been a 
confusion is because I start out by defining what an “object” is (it could just 
as well be a doohickey), then asserting that control doohickies are a subset of 
all doohickies, and then sticking with the same terminology throughout the 
course. Then when they encounter the term doohickey or control in the 
documentation they read past it because we’ve already defined the term. My 
students are the opposite of tech-savvy and couldn’t care less if LC is a 
“true” doohickey-oriented language. :D

Cheers,

Devin



On Jun 20, 2016, at 8:21 AM, Richmond  wrote:

I would like to think that there is a significant difference, Devin, between 
your University
students and my small children.

The children I teach actually believe that 'objects' are things that exist 
inside a computer,
rather than metaphorical abstractions drawn on a screen because we cannot cope 
with
endless lines of zeroes and ones.

Richmond.

On 20.06.2016 03:05, Devin Asay wrote:

This is an interesting discussion, but I’ll admit it has never been a source of 
confusion for me or my students. I announce on day 1: “Everything in LiveCode 
is an object.” And then: “Controls are objects that can be placed on cards to 
create a user interface.” Going forward I usually refer to objects you can 
place on cards as “control objects”. Then we move on, and I don’t ever remember 
having someone be confused about that point. Another way to think about it is 
that all of the thingies on the tools palette are control objects.

My .02.

Devin



On Jun 19, 2016, at 12:16 PM, Richmond  wrote:

On 19.06.2016 19:56, FlexibleLearning.com wrote:

To me the terms "control" and "object" are synonymous.



They may be synonymous to you; but all they do is cause confusion in the
"tiny minds" of 9 - 14 year old children who haven't heard about Piaget's
Formal Operational Stage, nor reached it.

You are, after all, an extremely experienced programmer who, probably, doesn't 
even murmur
'object' or 'control' under one's breath while choosing a button any more (if 
you ever did), as you have
internalised all that to such an extent that those terms are neither here nor 
there. I know
that I have.

The other problem has nothing, as such, to do with naming conventions decided
by Livecode developers or other computer people, but to do with people's
perceptions of what they see on their WIMP GUI on a computer VDU.

A quick, impromptu survey involving 3 children (9 - 11 years old, my father
(83 years old) and myself [don't quote this one in your next academic paper]
tells me that folk will see a difference between 2 classes of 'things':

1. Stacks & Cards (I mean, let's face facts, stacks are essentially invisible 
(or, maybe, as files
in one's directory) and only visualised through their cards).

2. Things that sit on cards (buttons, images, fields, et al).

AND, to that 'stack of cards' metaphor. How many teachers are bothering to pull 
out
a pack of playing cards to illustrate this to kids who are in the Concrete 
Operational Stage
and can't 'see' a Livecode as a pile of cards to save their lives?

A child, on Friday, said this, when I made him a second card: "Oh, a second 
page."

The 'stack of cards' metaphor has become so entrenched in our brains after 
years of bashing away at
Hypercard, SERF, HyperNext, HyperStudio (ooh, look [ 
http://www.mackiev.com/hyperstudio/select.html ] they have just released the 
ability to export to HTML5), Supercard, Metacard,
Runtime Revolution - Livecode, blah,  blah, that we assume it is automatic in 
new users, when, in fact,
it may not necessarily be useful or relevant anymore. Especially, if, unlike 
people like Bill Atkinson,
we don't come from a culture where we stack our pancakes up into one big pile and 
"stuff our mushes", nor play cards on a regular basis.

My Granny, from Carnoustie via Dundee, used to impose a horribly boring card 
game on my sister
and I every time she came to visit, called "Sevens", and whenever she was in 
danger of losing
announce, "Ach, I've got a hand like a sweaty foot." Which put me off cards 
almost completely.

Now; it does seem sensible to call things that sit on cards (buttons, images, 
fields, et al) 'objects',
because, frankly, not all of them CONTROL things: surely, only things that 
contain scripts CONTROL things?

To illustrate how daft calling things on cards 'controls' is, imagine calling 
the black (or white) blotches
on a Frisian cow "organs", when they are so obviously different from things 
such as mouths, eyes, ears
and udders.

Now, undoubtedly, SOME objects may become controls (by being gifted scripts), 
but that's

Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 38


That certainly puts things in perspective.

Lovely job!

Richmond.

On 20.06.2016 17:56, [-hh] wrote:

Jerry D. wrote:

'Focusing' has only one 's'. Not two.

This is true, of course. And just the same:

'Focussing' has two 's'. Not only one.



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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 38

2016-06-20 Thread [-hh]

Jerry D. wrote:
> 'Focusing' has only one 's'. Not two.

This is true, of course. And just the same:

'Focussing' has two 's'. Not only one.



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Re: Control? Object?

2016-06-20 Thread Devin Asay

Yes, that’s true no doubt. But I think part of the reason it hasn’t been a 
confusion is because I start out by defining what an “object” is (it could just 
as well be a doohickey), then asserting that control doohickies are a subset of 
all doohickies, and then sticking with the same terminology throughout the 
course. Then when they encounter the term doohickey or control in the 
documentation they read past it because we’ve already defined the term. My 
students are the opposite of tech-savvy and couldn’t care less if LC is a 
“true” doohickey-oriented language. :D

Cheers,

Devin


> On Jun 20, 2016, at 8:21 AM, Richmond  wrote:
> 
> I would like to think that there is a significant difference, Devin, between 
> your University
> students and my small children.
> 
> The children I teach actually believe that 'objects' are things that exist 
> inside a computer,
> rather than metaphorical abstractions drawn on a screen because we cannot 
> cope with
> endless lines of zeroes and ones.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> On 20.06.2016 03:05, Devin Asay wrote:
>> This is an interesting discussion, but I’ll admit it has never been a source 
>> of confusion for me or my students. I announce on day 1: “Everything in 
>> LiveCode is an object.” And then: “Controls are objects that can be placed 
>> on cards to create a user interface.” Going forward I usually refer to 
>> objects you can place on cards as “control objects”. Then we move on, and I 
>> don’t ever remember having someone be confused about that point. Another way 
>> to think about it is that all of the thingies on the tools palette are 
>> control objects.
>> 
>> My .02.
>> 
>> Devin
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 19, 2016, at 12:16 PM, Richmond  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 19.06.2016 19:56, FlexibleLearning.com wrote:
 To me the terms "control" and "object" are synonymous.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> They may be synonymous to you; but all they do is cause confusion in the
>>> "tiny minds" of 9 - 14 year old children who haven't heard about Piaget's
>>> Formal Operational Stage, nor reached it.
>>> 
>>> You are, after all, an extremely experienced programmer who, probably, 
>>> doesn't even murmur
>>> 'object' or 'control' under one's breath while choosing a button any more 
>>> (if you ever did), as you have
>>> internalised all that to such an extent that those terms are neither here 
>>> nor there. I know
>>> that I have.
>>> 
>>> The other problem has nothing, as such, to do with naming conventions 
>>> decided
>>> by Livecode developers or other computer people, but to do with people's
>>> perceptions of what they see on their WIMP GUI on a computer VDU.
>>> 
>>> A quick, impromptu survey involving 3 children (9 - 11 years old, my father
>>> (83 years old) and myself [don't quote this one in your next academic paper]
>>> tells me that folk will see a difference between 2 classes of 'things':
>>> 
>>> 1. Stacks & Cards (I mean, let's face facts, stacks are essentially 
>>> invisible (or, maybe, as files
>>> in one's directory) and only visualised through their cards).
>>> 
>>> 2. Things that sit on cards (buttons, images, fields, et al).
>>> 
>>> AND, to that 'stack of cards' metaphor. How many teachers are bothering to 
>>> pull out
>>> a pack of playing cards to illustrate this to kids who are in the Concrete 
>>> Operational Stage
>>> and can't 'see' a Livecode as a pile of cards to save their lives?
>>> 
>>> A child, on Friday, said this, when I made him a second card: "Oh, a second 
>>> page."
>>> 
>>> The 'stack of cards' metaphor has become so entrenched in our brains after 
>>> years of bashing away at
>>> Hypercard, SERF, HyperNext, HyperStudio (ooh, look [ 
>>> http://www.mackiev.com/hyperstudio/select.html ] they have just released 
>>> the ability to export to HTML5), Supercard, Metacard,
>>> Runtime Revolution - Livecode, blah,  blah, that we assume it is automatic 
>>> in new users, when, in fact,
>>> it may not necessarily be useful or relevant anymore. Especially, if, 
>>> unlike people like Bill Atkinson,
>>> we don't come from a culture where we stack our pancakes up into one big 
>>> pile and "stuff our mushes", nor play cards on a regular basis.
>>> 
>>> My Granny, from Carnoustie via Dundee, used to impose a horribly boring 
>>> card game on my sister
>>> and I every time she came to visit, called "Sevens", and whenever she was 
>>> in danger of losing
>>> announce, "Ach, I've got a hand like a sweaty foot." Which put me off cards 
>>> almost completely.
>>> 
>>> Now; it does seem sensible to call things that sit on cards (buttons, 
>>> images, fields, et al) 'objects',
>>> because, frankly, not all of them CONTROL things: surely, only things that 
>>> contain scripts CONTROL things?
>>> 
>>> To illustrate how daft calling things on cards 'controls' is, imagine 
>>> calling the black (or white) blotches
>>> on a Frisian cow "organs", when they are so obviously different from things 
>>> such as mouths, eyes,

Re: Control? Object?


Thank you very much indeed for the comprehensive reply.

I shall deal with the children's confusion by using neither 'object' or 
'control' and

just refer to buttons, fields and so on.

I know this is dodging the issue; but I can see no other way round it at 
the moment.


Richmond.

On 20.06.2016 12:28, Mark Waddingham wrote:

On 2016-06-19 09:19, Richmond wrote:

I am currently teaching some children Livecode programming and ran
into some difficulty
on Friday when a child asked me why the menus were full of the word 
"Control"

when I had been talking about "Objects".

Well?

How about changing every use of the word "Control" to "Object"?


Replying to the original post, as a lot was mentioned in this thread 
(it tries to cover most of what came up in the thread, not just this 
particular question).


An object (regardless of what language it is rendered in, or with 
whatever specific kind of 'oop' methodology you care to subscribe to) 
is simply some state (i.e. variables which are distinct for each 
instance of the object) with an associated list of 
handlers/methods/functions which act on that state. (Indeed, really I 
think one should require that the state is entirely hidden and 
encapsulated within the object and not visible from the outside world 
- although most OOP languages do this very very poorly).


In LiveCode, this is perhaps slightly hidden behind the English-like 
syntactic sugar. For example, one can imagine that:


   get the fooBar of myObject

Is the same as (in a non English-like language):

   it := myObject.GetFooBar()

Or something like:

   copy myObject

Is the same as (again, in a non English-like language):

   myObject.Copy()

Therefore, I have absolutely no hesitation in saying that LiveCode is 
object-oriented (for some definition of object-oriented). Indeed, it 
always has been - everyone who has ever programming in an xTalk had 
been doing object-oriented programming since it started to become 
'popular' (HyperCard appeared in 1987, Cfront - the original C++ - 
appeared in 1985 - although the first 'object oriented' languages such 
as Simula appeared perhaps a decade before).


The reason why I tend to hesitate saying LiveCode is object-oriented 
explicitly (well, up until 8, at least) is that the kind of way you do 
programming in LiveCode is perhaps not quite the same as what people 
expect when they hear that 'a language is object oriented'. The 
LiveCode model is essentially that of aggregation and adaptation, 
rather than inheritance (people tend to be highly aware of the later, 
but not aware of the former even though they will be implicitly doing 
it day-in-day-out in any programming language they are a practitioner 
of).


In LiveCode, you build applications by using the building-blocks you 
drag from the control palette to build more complicated things 
(aggregation), and then you apply scripts to each object to change the 
behavior of the building-blocks appropriate to your app (adaptation).


Now, inheritance is orthogonal to the idea of aggregation and 
adaptation - and it should be noted that most 'traditional' OOP 
languages allow you to do inheritance, but you have to build the 
framework to do aggregation and adaptation yourself (hence why Java, 
Obj-C, C++ etc. all have a large variety of 'frameworks' you can 
leverage to actually build apps - if you tried to do so with the 'raw' 
language, you'll find yourself just reinventing some sort of structure 
which is probably not too dissimilar to LiveCode's).


When we added 'behaviors' you could argue that 'inheritance' did 
actually start to creep in - behaviors allow you to factor out the 
code which you use to adapt the building blocks (i.e. your scripts) 
into an informal hierarchy. (Informal here refers to the fact you 
don't need to make type definitions - which is entirely appropriate to 
LiveCode which tends not to force that kind of thing on you anywhere - 
except in Builder, and only then if you really want to).


With 8, however, you can start to see the 'class inheritance' ability 
being added to LiveCode - that is what widgets are. i.e. You can write 
your own building blocks (in LiveCode Builder). (For those of you who 
have looked at Builder, then although it is not yet explicit - a 
module is essentially a class - a widget is a module which can have 
multiple instances and a library is a module which only ever has a 
single instance).


So, right now in LiveCode, the objects you have to play with are 
stacks, cards, audioclips, videoclips, fields, buttons, scrollbars, 
players, images, buttons, groups, graphics and widgets. However, 
remember that 'widgets' are a completely extensible set of things, so 
this list is no longer fixed as it was before.


To go back to the original point about controls vs objects then this 
is actually very well defined (indeed, it is embodied in the source of 
the engine - i.e. how LiveCode is actually implemented). A control is 
an object which sits on a card

Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 38


In North American English 'Focusing' is spelled 'focusing',

in British English 'Focussing' is spelt 'focussing'; and as long as we 
all understand what
someone means by 'focusing/focussing' I cannot see any need for any 
correxion/correction

however skeptical/sceptical I feel about this dialog/dialogue.

Peter Brett, at the risk of being wrong, seems to have been educated 
somewhere within the British Isles, so, although Livecode tries to be 
'cute' [there's an American word that gives me the dry boke]
with American English [c.f. backGroundColor], it is only natural for him 
to spell it "focussing'.


This reminds me of my mother who often has faggots for lunch (she's from 
the South West of English)
and nobody has ever accused her of being homophobic, or politically 
incorrect. She has, from time to time, been known to look out of the 
window at her rather spectacular garden and exclaim, " That's
looking rather gay." I should, perhaps, point out that no LGBT people 
have been hurt making my
Mum's garden, nor does she have rainbow flags swathed across the runner 
beans [oh, sorry; 'string beans"].


Richmond.

On 20.06.2016 13:56, m...@jerrydaniels.com wrote:

'Focusing' has only one 's'. Not two.

Best, Jerry

On Jun 20, 2016, 5:53 AM -0500, Peter TB Brett, wrote:

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!

Read issue #38 here: https://goo.gl/0k4kNi


This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be
released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will
deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any!

Are you doing something interesting with LiveCode Community Edition?
Please get in touch and get it featured in "This Week in LiveCode"!

Peter

--
Dr Peter Brett

Re: htmlText not supporting target in ?

2016-06-20 Thread Klaus major-k

After reading this a second time, it looks I have misunderstood the actual 
problem, sorry...

> Am 20.06.2016 um 15:41 schrieb Klaus major-k :
> 
> Dag Ton,
> 
>> Am 20.06.2016 um 15:22 schrieb tkuyp...@telenet.be 
>> :
>> 
>> Is this a bug or am I missing something?
>> 
>> I pasted the following URL into a field:
>> 
>> click > href="http://www.malamix.be/ClientData/88/234/35691/1313/1/Flyer%20Malamix%20Food%20Nederlands.pdf
>>  
>> ”>here
>>  for the full specs 
>> 
>> Using a click on a button, I enter this into another textfield, where it 
>> shows as htmlText, so the link is invisible and the “here” is underlined and 
>> blue. 
>> 
>> (The field contains more info, which will be shown in a webshop which I’m 
>> filling with data.)
>> 
>> 
>> Switching the field back and forward between html and the actual code works 
>> fine.
>> But I need to show the link in a new window, so I add “ target=‘_blank’ “ 
>> after the link: 
>> click > href="http://www.malamix.be/ClientData/88/234/35691/1313/1/Flyer%20Malamix%20Food%20Nederlands.pdf
>>  
>> ”
>>  target=‘_blank'>here for the full specs 
>> 
>> And when I switch between the visual text and the html-code, the target-part 
>> is gone… 
>> 
>> I’m using LC 0.01, but the same result in 8.02 rc2.
>> 
>> Bug or “hidden feature”?
> 
> as far as I remember, and that goes back to MetaCard 2.0 :-), this has never 
> been working 
> out of the box unless you add a "on linkclicked tLink..." handler to the 
> fields script.
> 
>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>> Warm Regards,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Ton Kuypers
>> +32 (0) 477 739 530
>> 
>> Steenweg op Leopoldsburg 100 • B-2490 • Balen • Belgium
>> www.publishingtools4u.com 
> 
> Groetjes
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> http://www.major-k.de
> kl...@major-k.de
> 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

--
Klaus Major
http://www.major-k.de
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: Control? Object?

I would like to think that there is a significant difference, Devin, 
between your University

students and my small children.

The children I teach actually believe that 'objects' are things that 
exist inside a computer,
rather than metaphorical abstractions drawn on a screen because we 
cannot cope with

endless lines of zeroes and ones.

Richmond.

On 20.06.2016 03:05, Devin Asay wrote:

This is an interesting discussion, but I’ll admit it has never been a source of 
confusion for me or my students. I announce on day 1: “Everything in LiveCode 
is an object.” And then: “Controls are objects that can be placed on cards to 
create a user interface.” Going forward I usually refer to objects you can 
place on cards as “control objects”. Then we move on, and I don’t ever remember 
having someone be confused about that point. Another way to think about it is 
that all of the thingies on the tools palette are control objects.

My .02.

Devin



On Jun 19, 2016, at 12:16 PM, Richmond  wrote:

On 19.06.2016 19:56, FlexibleLearning.com wrote:

To me the terms "control" and "object" are synonymous.



They may be synonymous to you; but all they do is cause confusion in the
"tiny minds" of 9 - 14 year old children who haven't heard about Piaget's
Formal Operational Stage, nor reached it.

You are, after all, an extremely experienced programmer who, probably, doesn't 
even murmur
'object' or 'control' under one's breath while choosing a button any more (if 
you ever did), as you have
internalised all that to such an extent that those terms are neither here nor 
there. I know
that I have.

The other problem has nothing, as such, to do with naming conventions decided
by Livecode developers or other computer people, but to do with people's
perceptions of what they see on their WIMP GUI on a computer VDU.

A quick, impromptu survey involving 3 children (9 - 11 years old, my father
(83 years old) and myself [don't quote this one in your next academic paper]
tells me that folk will see a difference between 2 classes of 'things':

1. Stacks & Cards (I mean, let's face facts, stacks are essentially invisible 
(or, maybe, as files
in one's directory) and only visualised through their cards).

2. Things that sit on cards (buttons, images, fields, et al).

AND, to that 'stack of cards' metaphor. How many teachers are bothering to pull 
out
a pack of playing cards to illustrate this to kids who are in the Concrete 
Operational Stage
and can't 'see' a Livecode as a pile of cards to save their lives?

A child, on Friday, said this, when I made him a second card: "Oh, a second 
page."

The 'stack of cards' metaphor has become so entrenched in our brains after 
years of bashing away at
Hypercard, SERF, HyperNext, HyperStudio (ooh, look [ 
http://www.mackiev.com/hyperstudio/select.html ] they have just released the 
ability to export to HTML5), Supercard, Metacard,
Runtime Revolution - Livecode, blah,  blah, that we assume it is automatic in 
new users, when, in fact,
it may not necessarily be useful or relevant anymore. Especially, if, unlike 
people like Bill Atkinson,
we don't come from a culture where we stack our pancakes up into one big pile and 
"stuff our mushes", nor play cards on a regular basis.

My Granny, from Carnoustie via Dundee, used to impose a horribly boring card 
game on my sister
and I every time she came to visit, called "Sevens", and whenever she was in 
danger of losing
announce, "Ach, I've got a hand like a sweaty foot." Which put me off cards 
almost completely.

Now; it does seem sensible to call things that sit on cards (buttons, images, 
fields, et al) 'objects',
because, frankly, not all of them CONTROL things: surely, only things that 
contain scripts CONTROL things?

To illustrate how daft calling things on cards 'controls' is, imagine calling 
the black (or white) blotches
on a Frisian cow "organs", when they are so obviously different from things 
such as mouths, eyes, ears
and udders.

Now, undoubtedly, SOME objects may become controls (by being gifted scripts), 
but that's beside
the point when one shows a bunch of learners (whether they are either 9 or 83 
years old,
or anywhere in between) a collections of things (buttons, images, fields, et 
al) on a card, as they have
not yet become controls as they have not had scripts written into their 
scriptEditor windows.

I wonder if it might not be a good idea to get a load of 9 year old native 
speakers to sit down in front
of a VDU displaying a Livecode 'page' containing a load of 'objects' and ask 
those children what they
would call them as a group of things.

Certainly, what ever "those things" are called, the apparent conflict in the Dictionary 
between the "Obj"
words and the "Controls" mentioned in the Menus does cause confusion in young 
minds (and it may in
others for all I know).

So, for learning purposes at least, I would say "B*gger the official terms", 
what is needed is a coherent
set of terms for

Re: Slight annoyance from MacKiev