Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread prothero--- via use-livecode
Folks:
One thing that seems to be missing in this discussion is the point of view of 
the “client”, the one who downloads the app and pays for it. I agree that the 
hoops one has to go through to get an app in the Apple store are a big pain, 
and that it seems unfair for Apple to get a cut of online advertising. But, 
does the end user care? 

I code in Livecode and always curse and struggle to get an app to load onto my 
phone. I also sympathize with the seemingly constant changes to Apple's 
requirements. But, as a user of iPhone apps, I really appreciate Apple’s 
attention to privacy and security. Would I sacrifice the user oriented 
qualities for the developer hassles? Probably not, at least with out a lot of 
other info about how Apple’s hoops for developers impact the user side for me. 
But I would find it unacceptable to sacrifice security and privacy.

Best,
Bill

William A. Prothero
Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
http://earthlearningsolutions.org/

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Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Brian Milby via use-livecode
Apple created a closed platform with their own store and rules.  Now that they 
are successful to say that they must change seems incorrect.  For whatever 
reason people like the product and I think a big part IS the store and model.  
I don’t think another store is the answer and rather think it would be a 
detriment.

Comparing Apple to Google is at the core different.  One started as an open 
platform and one started closed.  There really aren’t any other platforms that 
are viable in the smart phone space.

When your bring up competition, there are other remedies that could be 
implemented.  Allowing direct competition to their own apps could possibly be 
required.  Pandora and Amazon Music are a couple of direct competitors that are 
available.  Same thing goes for video.

There are other closed platforms.  A good example is the video game market.  
Can you download a game from another store than the one the maker provides?  
What is their cut on games?  Can anyone submit free games that anyone can 
download?

Brian

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 7, 2020, at 3:36 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Brian,
> 
> It is not about Apple allowing clones. It is about Apple opening iOS for
> other stores. Every other platform has multiple app stores, for example, on
> my Samsung Galaxy Note 8 I have Play Store, Galaxy Store, F-Droid, and some
> apps that were sideloaded after being purchased/downloaded from the web.
> 
> Apple with its monopoly of what can run on iOS has been preventing not only
> any app that would compete with their own apps (such as alternative web
> engines) but also using double standards to enforce their ruling, favouring
> rich clients and hurting small ISVs, such as the case of protonmail and
> others. If Apple decides iOS is not a place for your software, you're dead.
> If Google decides you can't be on Play Store, you can still place your app
> on other stores and ship them from your website yourself.
> 
>> On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 at 19:28, Brian Milby via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Not sure the question is relevant.  You chose to buy the iHouse over the
>> droidHouse for some reason.  Maybe you wanted to live in the neighborhood
>> with the lowest crime rate.
>> 
>> Also, until Apple is forced to allow other companies to make compatible
>> phones, I don’t see how the logic works.  Google doesn’t make the only
>> Android phone.
>> 
>> When I read Apple’s guidelines I don’t see anything about price parity.
>> You can’t point out that it is cheaper elsewhere, but are you required to
>> charge the same?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 7, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jim,
>>> 
 Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually have a
>>> monopoly.
 Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store
>>> policies but let’s not misuse the term monopoly.
>>> 
>>> There is another way to approach this. Apple has the monopoly of the iOS
>>> market, they can dictate and abuse their authority in that market and
>> there
>>> is nothing iOS users can do about that. There is no other app store to
>> buy
>>> apps from. Now contrast that with Android. Google doesn't have the
>> monopoly
>>> on Android. You have other app stores besides Google Play, other device
>>> makers, and as a developer you can ship apps on your own and on all or
>> any
>>> of the stores.
>>> 
>>> If you allow me an analogy, imagine that you bought an iHouse, it is a
>>> pleasant house, very elegant. Still, all the furniture, all the food,
>>> everything you might ever want to put inside your iHouse needs to come
>> from
>>> Apple Store. Is that still your house? Does Apple have a monopoly?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 at 18:20, Jim Lambert via use-livecode <
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 
 "A monopoly refers to when a company and its product offerings dominate
>> a
 sector or industry. Monopolies can be considered an extreme result of
 free-market capitalism <
 https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp> in that absent any
 restriction or restraints, a single company or group becomes large
>> enough
 to own all or nearly all of the market (goods, supplies, commodities,
 infrastructure, and assets) for a particular type of product or service.
 The term monopoly is often used to describe an entity that has total or
 near-total control of a market.”
 https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/monopoly.asp
 
 Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually have a
 monopoly.
 Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store
 policies but let’s not misuse the term monopoly.
 
 Jim Lambert
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Re: Secure Socket

2020-08-07 Thread Tom Glod via use-livecode
Mark, thank you for taking the time and helping me make peace on this
subject.



On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 4:28 AM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 2020-08-06 19:28, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote:
> > Do you think it is overkill to still encrypt it before I send it?
>
> Yes :)
>
> Applying industrial strength encryption twice does not increase security
> - it just wastes processor cycles.
>
> Indeed, if you are encrypting data to send over an encrypted stream then
> you must have a secret for this secondary encryption somewhere.
>
> If this secret is transmitted over the wire - then your second set of
> encryption is only as secure as the original connection (if someone
> could sniff the latter, then they can sniff out your secret for the
> extra encryption).
>
> If this secret is not transmitted over the wire and is just 'known' to
> both sides - then it means you must have a secret buried somewhere on
> both sides, probably less securely then the mechanisms used by SSL to
> establish the secret it uses to encrypt the stream.
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>
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Mobile:647.562.9411
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Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Brian,

It is not about Apple allowing clones. It is about Apple opening iOS for
other stores. Every other platform has multiple app stores, for example, on
my Samsung Galaxy Note 8 I have Play Store, Galaxy Store, F-Droid, and some
apps that were sideloaded after being purchased/downloaded from the web.

Apple with its monopoly of what can run on iOS has been preventing not only
any app that would compete with their own apps (such as alternative web
engines) but also using double standards to enforce their ruling, favouring
rich clients and hurting small ISVs, such as the case of protonmail and
others. If Apple decides iOS is not a place for your software, you're dead.
If Google decides you can't be on Play Store, you can still place your app
on other stores and ship them from your website yourself.

On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 at 19:28, Brian Milby via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Not sure the question is relevant.  You chose to buy the iHouse over the
> droidHouse for some reason.  Maybe you wanted to live in the neighborhood
> with the lowest crime rate.
>
> Also, until Apple is forced to allow other companies to make compatible
> phones, I don’t see how the logic works.  Google doesn’t make the only
> Android phone.
>
> When I read Apple’s guidelines I don’t see anything about price parity.
> You can’t point out that it is cheaper elsewhere, but are you required to
> charge the same?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 7, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Jim,
> >
> >> Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually have a
> > monopoly.
> >> Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store
> > policies but let’s not misuse the term monopoly.
> >
> > There is another way to approach this. Apple has the monopoly of the iOS
> > market, they can dictate and abuse their authority in that market and
> there
> > is nothing iOS users can do about that. There is no other app store to
> buy
> > apps from. Now contrast that with Android. Google doesn't have the
> monopoly
> > on Android. You have other app stores besides Google Play, other device
> > makers, and as a developer you can ship apps on your own and on all or
> any
> > of the stores.
> >
> > If you allow me an analogy, imagine that you bought an iHouse, it is a
> > pleasant house, very elegant. Still, all the furniture, all the food,
> > everything you might ever want to put inside your iHouse needs to come
> from
> > Apple Store. Is that still your house? Does Apple have a monopoly?
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 at 18:20, Jim Lambert via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> "A monopoly refers to when a company and its product offerings dominate
> a
> >> sector or industry. Monopolies can be considered an extreme result of
> >> free-market capitalism <
> >> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp> in that absent any
> >> restriction or restraints, a single company or group becomes large
> enough
> >> to own all or nearly all of the market (goods, supplies, commodities,
> >> infrastructure, and assets) for a particular type of product or service.
> >> The term monopoly is often used to describe an entity that has total or
> >> near-total control of a market.”
> >> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/monopoly.asp
> >>
> >> Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually have a
> >> monopoly.
> >> Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store
> >> policies but let’s not misuse the term monopoly.
> >>
> >> Jim Lambert
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > https://www.andregarzia.com 
> > Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> ___
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Stephen,

Web Apps don't level the playing field because Apple controls the web
engine on iOS. They don't allow any other web engine on the platform, so if
they don't implement an API that would hurt their monopoly for whatever
reason their PR machine uses as justification, we end up with a weaker web
platform.

Apple has done some superb stuff recently with their browser. Their
adoption of the webextensions API alone is a major victory for me. Still
hold all the keys and without competition it becomes hard to advance
something.




On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 at 19:50, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I thought "web apps" were going to level the playing field, and they could
> be made to look just like iPhone apps on an iPhone, one just rigs the css
> and graphics.  How did that work out?   I do love Livecode
> serverbrilliant.
>
> (full disclosure,  I hate using phones for stuff I can do on a desktop, a
> big reason why I gave up development except for desktop apps I make to
> support my other activities )
>
> ( I make video too, and will not do 'portrait' mode under any circumstances
> )
>
> (I'm watching Lewis Black as I type this, pardon my tone)
> --
> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
> mixstream.org
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 11:27 AM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Not sure the question is relevant.  You chose to buy the iHouse over the
> > droidHouse for some reason.  Maybe you wanted to live in the neighborhood
> > with the lowest crime rate.
> >
> > Also, until Apple is forced to allow other companies to make compatible
> > phones, I don’t see how the logic works.  Google doesn’t make the only
> > Android phone.
> >
> > When I read Apple’s guidelines I don’t see anything about price parity.
> > You can’t point out that it is cheaper elsewhere, but are you required to
> > charge the same?
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Aug 7, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Jim,
> > >
> > >> Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually
> have a
> > > monopoly.
> > >> Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store
> > > policies but let’s not misuse the term monopoly.
> > >
> > > There is another way to approach this. Apple has the monopoly of the
> iOS
> > > market, they can dictate and abuse their authority in that market and
> > there
> > > is nothing iOS users can do about that. There is no other app store to
> > buy
> > > apps from. Now contrast that with Android. Google doesn't have the
> > monopoly
> > > on Android. You have other app stores besides Google Play, other device
> > > makers, and as a developer you can ship apps on your own and on all or
> > any
> > > of the stores.
> > >
> > > If you allow me an analogy, imagine that you bought an iHouse, it is a
> > > pleasant house, very elegant. Still, all the furniture, all the food,
> > > everything you might ever want to put inside your iHouse needs to come
> > from
> > > Apple Store. Is that still your house? Does Apple have a monopoly?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 at 18:20, Jim Lambert via use-livecode <
> > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> "A monopoly refers to when a company and its product offerings
> dominate
> > a
> > >> sector or industry. Monopolies can be considered an extreme result of
> > >> free-market capitalism <
> > >> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp> in that absent
> any
> > >> restriction or restraints, a single company or group becomes large
> > enough
> > >> to own all or nearly all of the market (goods, supplies, commodities,
> > >> infrastructure, and assets) for a particular type of product or
> service.
> > >> The term monopoly is often used to describe an entity that has total
> or
> > >> near-total control of a market.”
> > >> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/monopoly.asp
> > >>
> > >> Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually
> have a
> > >> monopoly.
> > >> Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store
> > >> policies but let’s not misuse the term monopoly.
> > >>
> > >> Jim Lambert
> > >> ___
> > >> use-livecode mailing list
> > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > >> subscription preferences:
> > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > https://www.andregarzia.com 
> > > Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia
> > > ___
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > > 

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Stephen Barncard via use-livecode
I thought "web apps" were going to level the playing field, and they could
be made to look just like iPhone apps on an iPhone, one just rigs the css
and graphics.  How did that work out?   I do love Livecode
serverbrilliant.

(full disclosure,  I hate using phones for stuff I can do on a desktop, a
big reason why I gave up development except for desktop apps I make to
support my other activities )

( I make video too, and will not do 'portrait' mode under any circumstances
)

(I'm watching Lewis Black as I type this, pardon my tone)
--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org


On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 11:27 AM Brian Milby via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Not sure the question is relevant.  You chose to buy the iHouse over the
> droidHouse for some reason.  Maybe you wanted to live in the neighborhood
> with the lowest crime rate.
>
> Also, until Apple is forced to allow other companies to make compatible
> phones, I don’t see how the logic works.  Google doesn’t make the only
> Android phone.
>
> When I read Apple’s guidelines I don’t see anything about price parity.
> You can’t point out that it is cheaper elsewhere, but are you required to
> charge the same?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 7, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Jim,
> >
> >> Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually have a
> > monopoly.
> >> Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store
> > policies but let’s not misuse the term monopoly.
> >
> > There is another way to approach this. Apple has the monopoly of the iOS
> > market, they can dictate and abuse their authority in that market and
> there
> > is nothing iOS users can do about that. There is no other app store to
> buy
> > apps from. Now contrast that with Android. Google doesn't have the
> monopoly
> > on Android. You have other app stores besides Google Play, other device
> > makers, and as a developer you can ship apps on your own and on all or
> any
> > of the stores.
> >
> > If you allow me an analogy, imagine that you bought an iHouse, it is a
> > pleasant house, very elegant. Still, all the furniture, all the food,
> > everything you might ever want to put inside your iHouse needs to come
> from
> > Apple Store. Is that still your house? Does Apple have a monopoly?
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 at 18:20, Jim Lambert via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> "A monopoly refers to when a company and its product offerings dominate
> a
> >> sector or industry. Monopolies can be considered an extreme result of
> >> free-market capitalism <
> >> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp> in that absent any
> >> restriction or restraints, a single company or group becomes large
> enough
> >> to own all or nearly all of the market (goods, supplies, commodities,
> >> infrastructure, and assets) for a particular type of product or service.
> >> The term monopoly is often used to describe an entity that has total or
> >> near-total control of a market.”
> >> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/monopoly.asp
> >>
> >> Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually have a
> >> monopoly.
> >> Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store
> >> policies but let’s not misuse the term monopoly.
> >>
> >> Jim Lambert
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > https://www.andregarzia.com 
> > Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> ___
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Brian Milby via use-livecode
Not sure the question is relevant.  You chose to buy the iHouse over the 
droidHouse for some reason.  Maybe you wanted to live in the neighborhood with 
the lowest crime rate.

Also, until Apple is forced to allow other companies to make compatible phones, 
I don’t see how the logic works.  Google doesn’t make the only Android phone.

When I read Apple’s guidelines I don’t see anything about price parity.  You 
can’t point out that it is cheaper elsewhere, but are you required to charge 
the same?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 7, 2020, at 2:16 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Jim,
> 
>> Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually have a
> monopoly.
>> Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store
> policies but let’s not misuse the term monopoly.
> 
> There is another way to approach this. Apple has the monopoly of the iOS
> market, they can dictate and abuse their authority in that market and there
> is nothing iOS users can do about that. There is no other app store to buy
> apps from. Now contrast that with Android. Google doesn't have the monopoly
> on Android. You have other app stores besides Google Play, other device
> makers, and as a developer you can ship apps on your own and on all or any
> of the stores.
> 
> If you allow me an analogy, imagine that you bought an iHouse, it is a
> pleasant house, very elegant. Still, all the furniture, all the food,
> everything you might ever want to put inside your iHouse needs to come from
> Apple Store. Is that still your house? Does Apple have a monopoly?
> 
> 
> 
>> On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 at 18:20, Jim Lambert via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> "A monopoly refers to when a company and its product offerings dominate a
>> sector or industry. Monopolies can be considered an extreme result of
>> free-market capitalism <
>> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp> in that absent any
>> restriction or restraints, a single company or group becomes large enough
>> to own all or nearly all of the market (goods, supplies, commodities,
>> infrastructure, and assets) for a particular type of product or service.
>> The term monopoly is often used to describe an entity that has total or
>> near-total control of a market.”
>> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/monopoly.asp
>> 
>> Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually have a
>> monopoly.
>> Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store
>> policies but let’s not misuse the term monopoly.
>> 
>> Jim Lambert
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> https://www.andregarzia.com 
> Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Jim,

> Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually have a
monopoly.
> Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store
policies but let’s not misuse the term monopoly.

There is another way to approach this. Apple has the monopoly of the iOS
market, they can dictate and abuse their authority in that market and there
is nothing iOS users can do about that. There is no other app store to buy
apps from. Now contrast that with Android. Google doesn't have the monopoly
on Android. You have other app stores besides Google Play, other device
makers, and as a developer you can ship apps on your own and on all or any
of the stores.

If you allow me an analogy, imagine that you bought an iHouse, it is a
pleasant house, very elegant. Still, all the furniture, all the food,
everything you might ever want to put inside your iHouse needs to come from
Apple Store. Is that still your house? Does Apple have a monopoly?



On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 at 18:20, Jim Lambert via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> "A monopoly refers to when a company and its product offerings dominate a
> sector or industry. Monopolies can be considered an extreme result of
> free-market capitalism <
> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/freemarket.asp> in that absent any
> restriction or restraints, a single company or group becomes large enough
> to own all or nearly all of the market (goods, supplies, commodities,
> infrastructure, and assets) for a particular type of product or service.
> The term monopoly is often used to describe an entity that has total or
> near-total control of a market.”
> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/monopoly.asp
>
> Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually have a
> monopoly.
> Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store
> policies but let’s not misuse the term monopoly.
>
> Jim Lambert
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Stephen Barncard via use-livecode
And Apple knows it.
--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
mixstream.org


On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 9:08 AM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> My primary reason is that my clients always want their mobile app released
> for both platforms.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On August 7, 2020 6:34:45 AM Andre Garzia via use-livecode
>  wrote:
>
> > Antti,
> >
> > Android has 85% of the world market, it all depends on which country
> you're
> > selling and which metrics you're using. In the U.S. iOS has 58% of the
> > smartphone market and 63% of the tablet market. Another important factor
> is
> > that iOS users spend more money on apps than their Android peers. So for
> > those selling mobile apps whose primary market is the U.S. it makes sense
> > to ship to iOS.
> >
> > On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 at 08:50, Antti Ilola via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> If Apple is so horrible, why do you do software to them and I think that
> >> Apple has no monopoly, since Android shares 85% of the phone market.
> >>
> >> Antti
> >>
> >> to 6. elok. 2020 klo 22.23 JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode (
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com) kirjoitti:
> >>
> >> > Wow, that's heavy Jacque.
> >> > I'm not at all against Apple products, although it may seem like it
> >> > sometimes. I'm against how they work, making it more and more
> difficult.
> >> > I'm for a safe store too. But this is grabbing money from wherever
> they
> >> > can.
> >> >
> >> > Op do 6 aug. 2020 om 20:53 schreef J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
> >> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >> >
> >> > > I've been working on mobile apps for a non-profit publishing house.
> >> Their
> >> > > customers are large
> >> > > organizations that buy products in bulk and then resell to their own
> >> > > customers. Thus, the app
> >> > > does not sell to users at all, nor does our client.
> >> > >
> >> > > I made a minor mistake in one of my progress spinners; the
> >> > > briefly-displayed prompt (less than
> >> > > 1 second) said "Checking your purchases..." and Apple glommed onto
> that
> >> > > and wouldn't let go. My
> >> > > client and I spent 3 weeks and innumerable emails to Apple to
> convince
> >> > > them that users were not
> >> > > purchasing any products from the company who sponsored the software,
> >> nor
> >> > > could they buy
> >> > > products from any web site related to the company. We had to answer
> two
> >> > > different
> >> > > purchasing-related questionaires in great detail. They finally
> relented
> >> > > when we convinced them;
> >> > > I changed the prompt to "Checking your library..." and it didn't
> hurt
> >> > that
> >> > > we got a different
> >> > > reviewer.
> >> > >
> >> > > Google, who has some similar but less-stringent rules in the Play
> >> Store,
> >> > > accepted the app the
> >> > > first time without any objections.
> >> > >
> >> > > Word to the wise: if your app doesn't deal with sales, even
> indirectly,
> >> > > don't use money-related
> >> > > words anywhere. I hope the EU nails them; I consider App Store
> policies
> >> > > equivalent to
> >> > > extortion. Apple holds the majority of mobile users in the U.S. and
> the
> >> > > App Store is the only
> >> > > available outlet for apps. That sounds like a monopoly to me.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On 8/6/20 11:46 AM, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode wrote:
> >> > > > Hmpff i just read in the news that even Microsoft can't bring out
> an
> >> > > xcloud
> >> > > > application due to the apple store rules. What a mess. Only
> Android
> >> > users
> >> > > > will be able to stream games as mentioned on dutch tweakers.net
> >> > > website. I
> >> > > > think it's going to cost MS to much money to pay Apple ifvthey
> would
> >> > > bring
> >> > > > out the app on Apple's store.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Op wo 5 aug. 2020 02:10 schreef Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> >> > > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> JeeJeeStudio wrote:
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>   > 1 positive thing then on a thing we don't have in LC and now
> >> also
> >> > is
> >> > > >>   > removed...the possibility to put ads in your LC created
> mobile
> >> > > app...
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> "Possible" is a big word. It covers nearly everything.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> It's possible to use LC Build to support ad network APIs.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> It's also possible to find saner ad networks that offer REST
> APIs in
> >> > > >> addition to binary, so devs don't need to commit as much
> development
> >> > > >> time for one vendor.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> It's possible but less likely that an app not worth monetizing
> >> through
> >> > > >> freemiums, direct payment, or other model will earn enough to
> bring
> >> a
> >> > > >> positive ROI for the effort of implementing ads.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> It's less likely that you'll be able to shoe-horn 

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Jim Lambert via use-livecode
"A monopoly refers to when a company and its product offerings dominate a 
sector or industry. Monopolies can be considered an extreme result of 
free-market capitalism  in 
that absent any restriction or restraints, a single company or group becomes 
large enough to own all or nearly all of the market (goods, supplies, 
commodities, infrastructure, and assets) for a particular type of product or 
service. The term monopoly is often used to describe an entity that has total 
or near-total control of a market.”
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/monopoly.asp

Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually have a 
monopoly.
Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store policies 
but let’s not misuse the term monopoly.

Jim Lambert
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Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
My primary reason is that my clients always want their mobile app released 
for both platforms.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On August 7, 2020 6:34:45 AM Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Antti,

Android has 85% of the world market, it all depends on which country you're
selling and which metrics you're using. In the U.S. iOS has 58% of the
smartphone market and 63% of the tablet market. Another important factor is
that iOS users spend more money on apps than their Android peers. So for
those selling mobile apps whose primary market is the U.S. it makes sense
to ship to iOS.

On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 at 08:50, Antti Ilola via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


If Apple is so horrible, why do you do software to them and I think that
Apple has no monopoly, since Android shares 85% of the phone market.

Antti

to 6. elok. 2020 klo 22.23 JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode (
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com) kirjoitti:

> Wow, that's heavy Jacque.
> I'm not at all against Apple products, although it may seem like it
> sometimes. I'm against how they work, making it more and more difficult.
> I'm for a safe store too. But this is grabbing money from wherever they
> can.
>
> Op do 6 aug. 2020 om 20:53 schreef J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
>
> > I've been working on mobile apps for a non-profit publishing house.
Their
> > customers are large
> > organizations that buy products in bulk and then resell to their own
> > customers. Thus, the app
> > does not sell to users at all, nor does our client.
> >
> > I made a minor mistake in one of my progress spinners; the
> > briefly-displayed prompt (less than
> > 1 second) said "Checking your purchases..." and Apple glommed onto that
> > and wouldn't let go. My
> > client and I spent 3 weeks and innumerable emails to Apple to convince
> > them that users were not
> > purchasing any products from the company who sponsored the software,
nor
> > could they buy
> > products from any web site related to the company. We had to answer two
> > different
> > purchasing-related questionaires in great detail. They finally relented
> > when we convinced them;
> > I changed the prompt to "Checking your library..." and it didn't hurt
> that
> > we got a different
> > reviewer.
> >
> > Google, who has some similar but less-stringent rules in the Play
Store,
> > accepted the app the
> > first time without any objections.
> >
> > Word to the wise: if your app doesn't deal with sales, even indirectly,
> > don't use money-related
> > words anywhere. I hope the EU nails them; I consider App Store policies
> > equivalent to
> > extortion. Apple holds the majority of mobile users in the U.S. and the
> > App Store is the only
> > available outlet for apps. That sounds like a monopoly to me.
> >
> >
> > On 8/6/20 11:46 AM, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode wrote:
> > > Hmpff i just read in the news that even Microsoft can't bring out an
> > xcloud
> > > application due to the apple store rules. What a mess. Only Android
> users
> > > will be able to stream games as mentioned on dutch tweakers.net
> > website. I
> > > think it's going to cost MS to much money to pay Apple ifvthey would
> > bring
> > > out the app on Apple's store.
> > >
> > > Op wo 5 aug. 2020 02:10 schreef Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> > >
> > >> JeeJeeStudio wrote:
> > >>
> > >>   > 1 positive thing then on a thing we don't have in LC and now
also
> is
> > >>   > removed...the possibility to put ads in your LC created mobile
> > app...
> > >>
> > >> "Possible" is a big word. It covers nearly everything.
> > >>
> > >> It's possible to use LC Build to support ad network APIs.
> > >>
> > >> It's also possible to find saner ad networks that offer REST APIs in
> > >> addition to binary, so devs don't need to commit as much development
> > >> time for one vendor.
> > >>
> > >> It's possible but less likely that an app not worth monetizing
through
> > >> freemiums, direct payment, or other model will earn enough to bring
a
> > >> positive ROI for the effort of implementing ads.
> > >>
> > >> It's less likely that you'll be able to shoe-horn someone else's ads
> > >> into your app design without impairing the user experience.
> > >>
> > >> Lots of things are possible.  Fewer things are likely.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >>Richard Gaskin
> > >>Fourth World Systems
> > >>Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the
> Web
> > >>
> 
> > >>ambassa...@fourthworld.com
> http://www.FourthWorld.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> use-livecode mailing list
> > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > >> subscription preferences:
> > >> 

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Antti,

Android has 85% of the world market, it all depends on which country you're
selling and which metrics you're using. In the U.S. iOS has 58% of the
smartphone market and 63% of the tablet market. Another important factor is
that iOS users spend more money on apps than their Android peers. So for
those selling mobile apps whose primary market is the U.S. it makes sense
to ship to iOS.

On Fri, 7 Aug 2020 at 08:50, Antti Ilola via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> If Apple is so horrible, why do you do software to them and I think that
> Apple has no monopoly, since Android shares 85% of the phone market.
>
> Antti
>
> to 6. elok. 2020 klo 22.23 JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode (
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com) kirjoitti:
>
> > Wow, that's heavy Jacque.
> > I'm not at all against Apple products, although it may seem like it
> > sometimes. I'm against how they work, making it more and more difficult.
> > I'm for a safe store too. But this is grabbing money from wherever they
> > can.
> >
> > Op do 6 aug. 2020 om 20:53 schreef J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > > I've been working on mobile apps for a non-profit publishing house.
> Their
> > > customers are large
> > > organizations that buy products in bulk and then resell to their own
> > > customers. Thus, the app
> > > does not sell to users at all, nor does our client.
> > >
> > > I made a minor mistake in one of my progress spinners; the
> > > briefly-displayed prompt (less than
> > > 1 second) said "Checking your purchases..." and Apple glommed onto that
> > > and wouldn't let go. My
> > > client and I spent 3 weeks and innumerable emails to Apple to convince
> > > them that users were not
> > > purchasing any products from the company who sponsored the software,
> nor
> > > could they buy
> > > products from any web site related to the company. We had to answer two
> > > different
> > > purchasing-related questionaires in great detail. They finally relented
> > > when we convinced them;
> > > I changed the prompt to "Checking your library..." and it didn't hurt
> > that
> > > we got a different
> > > reviewer.
> > >
> > > Google, who has some similar but less-stringent rules in the Play
> Store,
> > > accepted the app the
> > > first time without any objections.
> > >
> > > Word to the wise: if your app doesn't deal with sales, even indirectly,
> > > don't use money-related
> > > words anywhere. I hope the EU nails them; I consider App Store policies
> > > equivalent to
> > > extortion. Apple holds the majority of mobile users in the U.S. and the
> > > App Store is the only
> > > available outlet for apps. That sounds like a monopoly to me.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 8/6/20 11:46 AM, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode wrote:
> > > > Hmpff i just read in the news that even Microsoft can't bring out an
> > > xcloud
> > > > application due to the apple store rules. What a mess. Only Android
> > users
> > > > will be able to stream games as mentioned on dutch tweakers.net
> > > website. I
> > > > think it's going to cost MS to much money to pay Apple ifvthey would
> > > bring
> > > > out the app on Apple's store.
> > > >
> > > > Op wo 5 aug. 2020 02:10 schreef Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> > > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> > > >
> > > >> JeeJeeStudio wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>   > 1 positive thing then on a thing we don't have in LC and now
> also
> > is
> > > >>   > removed...the possibility to put ads in your LC created mobile
> > > app...
> > > >>
> > > >> "Possible" is a big word. It covers nearly everything.
> > > >>
> > > >> It's possible to use LC Build to support ad network APIs.
> > > >>
> > > >> It's also possible to find saner ad networks that offer REST APIs in
> > > >> addition to binary, so devs don't need to commit as much development
> > > >> time for one vendor.
> > > >>
> > > >> It's possible but less likely that an app not worth monetizing
> through
> > > >> freemiums, direct payment, or other model will earn enough to bring
> a
> > > >> positive ROI for the effort of implementing ads.
> > > >>
> > > >> It's less likely that you'll be able to shoe-horn someone else's ads
> > > >> into your app design without impairing the user experience.
> > > >>
> > > >> Lots of things are possible.  Fewer things are likely.
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >>Richard Gaskin
> > > >>Fourth World Systems
> > > >>Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the
> > Web
> > > >>
> > 
> > > >>ambassa...@fourthworld.com
> > http://www.FourthWorld.com
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ___
> > > >> use-livecode mailing list
> > > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > >> subscription preferences:
> > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > > >>
> > > > 

Facturing/Billing Warning Google Play dev console when using Android 8.0 as minimum version

2020-08-07 Thread JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode

Hi,


i got a warning uploading an app update which uses minimum Android 
Version 8.0 Oreo about facturing rights, it does not use facturing.


Also in the standalone settings in-App Purchases is not selected.

Uploading an other app with minimum Android version 5.0 i do not get 
that warning.


Both standalones are build with LC961rc2.

What could cause this?

Do i have to add something in the Android sdk's?

This is the error in Dutch:


   Waarschuwingen

Je hebt een APK of Android App Bundle geüpload zonder de rechten voor 
FACTURERING of met de rechten voor FACTURERING die is beperkt tot 
specifieke SDK-versies. De rechten voor FACTURERING zijn vereist voor de 
verkoop van in-app-producten.


Translated in English:

Warnings

You uploaded an APK or Android App Bundle without the BILLING rights or 
with the BILLING rights limited to specific SDK versions. BILLING rights 
are required for the sale of in-app products.



Thanks!

Jerry



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Re: Secure Socket

2020-08-07 Thread Mark Waddingham via use-livecode

On 2020-08-06 19:28, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote:

Do you think it is overkill to still encrypt it before I send it?


Yes :)

Applying industrial strength encryption twice does not increase security 
- it just wastes processor cycles.


Indeed, if you are encrypting data to send over an encrypted stream then 
you must have a secret for this secondary encryption somewhere.


If this secret is transmitted over the wire - then your second set of 
encryption is only as secure as the original connection (if someone 
could sniff the latter, then they can sniff out your secret for the 
extra encryption).


If this secret is not transmitted over the wire and is just 'known' to 
both sides - then it means you must have a secret buried somewhere on 
both sides, probably less securely then the mechanisms used by SSL to 
establish the secret it uses to encrypt the stream.


Warmest Regards,

Mark.

--
Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Antti Ilola via use-livecode
If Apple is so horrible, why do you do software to them and I think that
Apple has no monopoly, since Android shares 85% of the phone market.

Antti

to 6. elok. 2020 klo 22.23 JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode (
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com) kirjoitti:

> Wow, that's heavy Jacque.
> I'm not at all against Apple products, although it may seem like it
> sometimes. I'm against how they work, making it more and more difficult.
> I'm for a safe store too. But this is grabbing money from wherever they
> can.
>
> Op do 6 aug. 2020 om 20:53 schreef J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
>
> > I've been working on mobile apps for a non-profit publishing house. Their
> > customers are large
> > organizations that buy products in bulk and then resell to their own
> > customers. Thus, the app
> > does not sell to users at all, nor does our client.
> >
> > I made a minor mistake in one of my progress spinners; the
> > briefly-displayed prompt (less than
> > 1 second) said "Checking your purchases..." and Apple glommed onto that
> > and wouldn't let go. My
> > client and I spent 3 weeks and innumerable emails to Apple to convince
> > them that users were not
> > purchasing any products from the company who sponsored the software, nor
> > could they buy
> > products from any web site related to the company. We had to answer two
> > different
> > purchasing-related questionaires in great detail. They finally relented
> > when we convinced them;
> > I changed the prompt to "Checking your library..." and it didn't hurt
> that
> > we got a different
> > reviewer.
> >
> > Google, who has some similar but less-stringent rules in the Play Store,
> > accepted the app the
> > first time without any objections.
> >
> > Word to the wise: if your app doesn't deal with sales, even indirectly,
> > don't use money-related
> > words anywhere. I hope the EU nails them; I consider App Store policies
> > equivalent to
> > extortion. Apple holds the majority of mobile users in the U.S. and the
> > App Store is the only
> > available outlet for apps. That sounds like a monopoly to me.
> >
> >
> > On 8/6/20 11:46 AM, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode wrote:
> > > Hmpff i just read in the news that even Microsoft can't bring out an
> > xcloud
> > > application due to the apple store rules. What a mess. Only Android
> users
> > > will be able to stream games as mentioned on dutch tweakers.net
> > website. I
> > > think it's going to cost MS to much money to pay Apple ifvthey would
> > bring
> > > out the app on Apple's store.
> > >
> > > Op wo 5 aug. 2020 02:10 schreef Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> > >
> > >> JeeJeeStudio wrote:
> > >>
> > >>   > 1 positive thing then on a thing we don't have in LC and now also
> is
> > >>   > removed...the possibility to put ads in your LC created mobile
> > app...
> > >>
> > >> "Possible" is a big word. It covers nearly everything.
> > >>
> > >> It's possible to use LC Build to support ad network APIs.
> > >>
> > >> It's also possible to find saner ad networks that offer REST APIs in
> > >> addition to binary, so devs don't need to commit as much development
> > >> time for one vendor.
> > >>
> > >> It's possible but less likely that an app not worth monetizing through
> > >> freemiums, direct payment, or other model will earn enough to bring a
> > >> positive ROI for the effort of implementing ads.
> > >>
> > >> It's less likely that you'll be able to shoe-horn someone else's ads
> > >> into your app design without impairing the user experience.
> > >>
> > >> Lots of things are possible.  Fewer things are likely.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >>Richard Gaskin
> > >>Fourth World Systems
> > >>Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the
> Web
> > >>
> 
> > >>ambassa...@fourthworld.com
> http://www.FourthWorld.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> use-livecode mailing list
> > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > >> subscription preferences:
> > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >>
> > > ___
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> > HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>