Re: Android compass question

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Just following up on this - on my Android device the compass heading data from 
LC jumps around plus-or-minus 10 degrees while the phone is laying still, but 
the same data from the browser widget is stable. I was able to make it work in 
my app this way, but I wish the LC sensor data had also been stable.

You have to be careful how you do it, though, because too much back and forth 
data flow between LC and the browser widget can cause a crash.

Anyone, this solution works in case anyone has the same issue.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 18, 2018, at 2:20 PM, Jonathan Lynch  wrote:
> 
> Just a quick addendum to my last comment - I found an html5 online compass 
> demo that works well on the device. That means I might be able to use the 
> browser widget that displays the map to read the compass from the device. If 
> that works, I could reset the map heading inside the widget without having to 
> get data from LC.
> 
> That is actually a huge amount of work, and I hate to have to resort to that, 
> but having the heading jump around so much is just unworkable. I am not sure 
> how the browser can get a steady reading when LC is not getting a steady 
> reading from the system.
> 
>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 2:06 PM Jonathan Lynch  
>> wrote:
>> Hi Jacqueline,
>> 
>> Thank you for this reply. I keep working with this issue, but I still cannot 
>> resolve it. When I put the Android phone down on a table, to be still, the 
>> compass heading from LC jumps up and down by as much as 10 degrees - way too 
>> big of a range just to round.
>> 
>> However, the compass app I downloaded on that same device is rock steady.
>> 
>> I really wish it would just work, rather than having to massage the data 
>> from the device.
>> 
>>> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 4:24 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> On 8/11/18 3:34 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>> > I have a new galaxy phone. When I read the mobile compass, both magnetic 
>>> > heading and true heading constantly change - even if the phone is laying 
>>> > down still. It changes up and down randomly by 5 degrees or so. Does 
>>> > anyone know if this is a problem with LC or with galaxy phones? My iPhone 
>>> > does not do this.
>>> 
>>> My Galaxy S5 does the same thing with a LC compass I made. My guess is 
>>> that's the way Android reads GPS data. When it tries to find my house, 
>>> it does a whole bunch of hops around the circumference before settling 
>>> down on the center, and even then it still twitches as it tries for more 
>>> accuracy.
>>> 
>>> A compass I downloaded from the Play Store does not do that on my Pixel. 
>>> I'd guess that the app is doing some rounding to the nearest integer, 
>>> since it doesn't display fractional values.
>>> 
>>> Try downloading a few of the dozens of compasses on the Play Store and 
>>> see how they behave. It may be that LC is actually more precise than you 
>>> want it to be. I do know that LC is only reporting what the OS tells it.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Do all things with love
> 
> 
> -- 
> Do all things with love
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Re: Android compass question

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Just a quick addendum to my last comment - I found an html5 online compass
demo that works well on the device. That means I might be able to use the
browser widget that displays the map to read the compass from the device.
If that works, I could reset the map heading inside the widget without
having to get data from LC.

That is actually a huge amount of work, and I hate to have to resort to
that, but having the heading jump around so much is just unworkable. I am
not sure how the browser can get a steady reading when LC is not getting a
steady reading from the system.

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 2:06 PM Jonathan Lynch 
wrote:

> Hi Jacqueline,
>
> Thank you for this reply. I keep working with this issue, but I still
> cannot resolve it. When I put the Android phone down on a table, to be
> still, the compass heading from LC jumps up and down by as much as 10
> degrees - way too big of a range just to round.
>
> However, the compass app I downloaded on that same device is rock steady.
>
> I really wish it would just work, rather than having to massage the data
> from the device.
>
> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 4:24 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/11/18 3:34 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>> > I have a new galaxy phone. When I read the mobile compass, both
>> magnetic heading and true heading constantly change - even if the phone is
>> laying down still. It changes up and down randomly by 5 degrees or so. Does
>> anyone know if this is a problem with LC or with galaxy phones? My iPhone
>> does not do this.
>>
>> My Galaxy S5 does the same thing with a LC compass I made. My guess is
>> that's the way Android reads GPS data. When it tries to find my house,
>> it does a whole bunch of hops around the circumference before settling
>> down on the center, and even then it still twitches as it tries for more
>> accuracy.
>>
>> A compass I downloaded from the Play Store does not do that on my Pixel.
>> I'd guess that the app is doing some rounding to the nearest integer,
>> since it doesn't display fractional values.
>>
>> Try downloading a few of the dozens of compasses on the Play Store and
>> see how they behave. It may be that LC is actually more precise than you
>> want it to be. I do know that LC is only reporting what the OS tells it.
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> Do all things with love
>


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Re: Android compass question

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Jacqueline,

Thank you for this reply. I keep working with this issue, but I still
cannot resolve it. When I put the Android phone down on a table, to be
still, the compass heading from LC jumps up and down by as much as 10
degrees - way too big of a range just to round.

However, the compass app I downloaded on that same device is rock steady.

I really wish it would just work, rather than having to massage the data
from the device.

On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 4:24 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 8/11/18 3:34 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
> > I have a new galaxy phone. When I read the mobile compass, both magnetic
> heading and true heading constantly change - even if the phone is laying
> down still. It changes up and down randomly by 5 degrees or so. Does anyone
> know if this is a problem with LC or with galaxy phones? My iPhone does not
> do this.
>
> My Galaxy S5 does the same thing with a LC compass I made. My guess is
> that's the way Android reads GPS data. When it tries to find my house,
> it does a whole bunch of hops around the circumference before settling
> down on the center, and even then it still twitches as it tries for more
> accuracy.
>
> A compass I downloaded from the Play Store does not do that on my Pixel.
> I'd guess that the app is doing some rounding to the nearest integer,
> since it doesn't display fractional values.
>
> Try downloading a few of the dozens of compasses on the Play Store and
> see how they behave. It may be that LC is actually more precise than you
> want it to be. I do know that LC is only reporting what the OS tells it.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


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Android compass question

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I have a new galaxy phone. When I read the mobile compass, both magnetic 
heading and true heading constantly change - even if the phone is laying down 
still. It changes up and down randomly by 5 degrees or so. Does anyone know if 
this is a problem with LC or with galaxy phones? My iPhone does not do this.

Sent from my iPhone
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A suggestion for an in-memory database, following up on Richard’s experiment

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

This is a different idea from the other thread, so I am starting a new thread. 

Imagine the following scenario:

Each record is saved as a separate text file.

LC loads up all the text files into a single massive global array.

LC listens to a port for DB requests.

When a DB request comes in, LC makes changes in the global array and retrieves 
data from the global array. It sends the results back almost instantly.

LC sends the new version of the file over to Apache which is listening on a 
different port.

Apache spawns a new thread for each concurrent request. Each thread simply 
takes the record and saves it to its file.

In this way, LC operates as an in-memory database, which is supposed to be very 
fast, and Apache does the multithreading to back up each record in the 
background.

Assuming a powerful server with lots of RAM, could this allow us to handle 
massive concurrency while using LC as the server?

Apologies if these questions are getting tedious - they are relevant to my 
current project.

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Another server question (mixing node.js and LC)

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Is it possible to solve the C10k problem with simple CGI? LC has a relatively 
small footprint in RAM. If each LC process takes up 7 meg, then 10,000 
processes would take 70 gig of ram. NginX can manage that  no problem on a 
dedicated server. Is there any reason why that would not work?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 28, 2018, at 2:49 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> I think you might be right, Mike. I have been reading about benchmark tests 
> between node, Apache, and ningx. Node does not seem to live up to the hype at 
> all. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 28, 2018, at 2:27 PM, Mike Bonner via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> One thing you might do if you were to decide to stick with apache would be
>> to make sure you use either the worker mpm or events mpm (sounds like
>> events would be the one you wanted for this) (read more on this page...
>> https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/misc/perf-tuning.html ) to get better
>> performance.
>> 
>> Alternatively as Richard mentioned, there is nginx, which might be just
>> what the doctor ordered.  Basically, a request comes in, is handed off to
>> the your lc script, and when a response is ready, it handles it and sends
>> it back to the client, meanwhile still being able to listen for, and accept
>> new requests. At least this is what I get from my reading, some of which
>> are older postings. Sounds pretty much like what you are thinking of doing
>> with node.js.
>> 
>> I'm also wondering where a docker swarm might fit into your needs. multiple
>> containers with a custom nginx image that can run your scripts, with load
>> balancing and auto failover could be a great thing, and still be very
>> lightweight. (the nginx docker on alpine is amazingly tiny, lightweight)
>> 
>> I've no clue how performance and reliability might compare to node.js for
>> this.
>> 
>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:26 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> In reading about fastCGI and LC, it seems rather experimental. I am just
>>> wondering if replacing Apache with node.js as the http server would give us
>>> the necessary concurrency capacity for using LC server on a large scale.
>>> 
>>> Basically, I am soon going to start pitching augmented tours (idea
>>> suggested by guys at a business incubator) to tourism companies, using
>>> Augmented Earth, and I don’t want to have the server crash if a large
>>> number of people are using it all at once.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 28, 2018, at 12:48 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you, Richard
>>>> 
>>>> A given transaction involves processing a user request, making two or
>>> three requests to the database, and returning around 500 kB to the user.
>>>> 
>>>> I certainly don’t need to load fonts in the LC process. Can that be
>>> turned off?
>>>> 
>>>> I like the idea of maintaining a queue of running LC processes and
>>> growing or shrinking it as needed based on request load.
>>>> 
>>>> How does the http server know which process to access?
>>>> 
>>>> I know that node.js has a pretty simple code for launching a CGI process
>>> and listening for a result. I don’t know how it would do that with an
>>> already-running process.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 28, 2018, at 12:22 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> jonathandlynch wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have another server question. I really like scripting with LC,
>>>>>> because I can make improvements very quickly. This is important
>>>>>> because of my very limited free time.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But, I want to be able to handle many many concurrent server requests,
>>>>>> the way node.js does.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good timing.  Geoff Canyon and I have been corresponding about a
>>> related matter, comparing performance of LC Server with PHP.
>>>>> 
>>>>> PHP7 is such a radical improvement over PHP5 that it's almost unfair to
>>> compare it any scripting language now.  But it also prompts me to wonder:
>>> is there anything in those PHP speed improvements which could be applied to
>>> LC?
>>>>> 
>

Re: Another server question (mixing node.js and LC)

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I think you might be right, Mike. I have been reading about benchmark tests 
between node, Apache, and ningx. Node does not seem to live up to the hype at 
all. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 28, 2018, at 2:27 PM, Mike Bonner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> One thing you might do if you were to decide to stick with apache would be
> to make sure you use either the worker mpm or events mpm (sounds like
> events would be the one you wanted for this) (read more on this page...
> https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/misc/perf-tuning.html ) to get better
> performance.
> 
> Alternatively as Richard mentioned, there is nginx, which might be just
> what the doctor ordered.  Basically, a request comes in, is handed off to
> the your lc script, and when a response is ready, it handles it and sends
> it back to the client, meanwhile still being able to listen for, and accept
> new requests. At least this is what I get from my reading, some of which
> are older postings. Sounds pretty much like what you are thinking of doing
> with node.js.
> 
> I'm also wondering where a docker swarm might fit into your needs. multiple
> containers with a custom nginx image that can run your scripts, with load
> balancing and auto failover could be a great thing, and still be very
> lightweight. (the nginx docker on alpine is amazingly tiny, lightweight)
> 
> I've no clue how performance and reliability might compare to node.js for
> this.
> 
> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 11:26 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> In reading about fastCGI and LC, it seems rather experimental. I am just
>> wondering if replacing Apache with node.js as the http server would give us
>> the necessary concurrency capacity for using LC server on a large scale.
>> 
>> Basically, I am soon going to start pitching augmented tours (idea
>> suggested by guys at a business incubator) to tourism companies, using
>> Augmented Earth, and I don’t want to have the server crash if a large
>> number of people are using it all at once.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Feb 28, 2018, at 12:48 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thank you, Richard
>>> 
>>> A given transaction involves processing a user request, making two or
>> three requests to the database, and returning around 500 kB to the user.
>>> 
>>> I certainly don’t need to load fonts in the LC process. Can that be
>> turned off?
>>> 
>>> I like the idea of maintaining a queue of running LC processes and
>> growing or shrinking it as needed based on request load.
>>> 
>>> How does the http server know which process to access?
>>> 
>>> I know that node.js has a pretty simple code for launching a CGI process
>> and listening for a result. I don’t know how it would do that with an
>> already-running process.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 28, 2018, at 12:22 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> jonathandlynch wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I have another server question. I really like scripting with LC,
>>>>> because I can make improvements very quickly. This is important
>>>>> because of my very limited free time.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But, I want to be able to handle many many concurrent server requests,
>>>>> the way node.js does.
>>>> 
>>>> Good timing.  Geoff Canyon and I have been corresponding about a
>> related matter, comparing performance of LC Server with PHP.
>>>> 
>>>> PHP7 is such a radical improvement over PHP5 that it's almost unfair to
>> compare it any scripting language now.  But it also prompts me to wonder:
>> is there anything in those PHP speed improvements which could be applied to
>> LC?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> But that's for the future, and for CGI.  In the here-and-now, you're
>> exploring a different but very interesting area:
>>>> 
>>>>> Would it work to have node take In a request, launch an LC cgi
>>>>> executable to process the request, set an event listener to wait
>>>>> for LC to send the results back to Node, then have node return
>>>>> the results to the user?
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is not unlike using Apache to launch LC CGI processes, but
>>>>> the asynchronous nature of node would, presumably, tie up fewer
>>>>> system resources and allow for

Re: Another server question (mixing node.js and LC)

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

In reading about fastCGI and LC, it seems rather experimental. I am just 
wondering if replacing Apache with node.js as the http server would give us the 
necessary concurrency capacity for using LC server on a large scale.

Basically, I am soon going to start pitching augmented tours (idea suggested by 
guys at a business incubator) to tourism companies, using Augmented Earth, and 
I don’t want to have the server crash if a large number of people are using it 
all at once.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 28, 2018, at 12:48 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Thank you, Richard
> 
> A given transaction involves processing a user request, making two or three 
> requests to the database, and returning around 500 kB to the user.
> 
> I certainly don’t need to load fonts in the LC process. Can that be turned 
> off?
> 
> I like the idea of maintaining a queue of running LC processes and growing or 
> shrinking it as needed based on request load.
> 
> How does the http server know which process to access?
> 
> I know that node.js has a pretty simple code for launching a CGI process and 
> listening for a result. I don’t know how it would do that with an 
> already-running process.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 28, 2018, at 12:22 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> jonathandlynch wrote:
>> 
>>> I have another server question. I really like scripting with LC,
>>> because I can make improvements very quickly. This is important
>>> because of my very limited free time.
>>> 
>>> But, I want to be able to handle many many concurrent server requests,
>>> the way node.js does.
>> 
>> Good timing.  Geoff Canyon and I have been corresponding about a related 
>> matter, comparing performance of LC Server with PHP.
>> 
>> PHP7 is such a radical improvement over PHP5 that it's almost unfair to 
>> compare it any scripting language now.  But it also prompts me to wonder: is 
>> there anything in those PHP speed improvements which could be applied to LC?
>> 
>> 
>> But that's for the future, and for CGI.  In the here-and-now, you're 
>> exploring a different but very interesting area:
>> 
>>> Would it work to have node take In a request, launch an LC cgi
>>> executable to process the request, set an event listener to wait
>>> for LC to send the results back to Node, then have node return
>>> the results to the user?
>>> 
>>> This is not unlike using Apache to launch LC CGI processes, but
>>> the asynchronous nature of node would, presumably, tie up fewer
>>> system resources and allow for larger concurrency. This could mean
>>> having a couple thousand LC processes running at any one time - would
>>> that be okay as long as the server had enough RAM?
>>> 
>>> In general, would this work for a system that hand to handle, say,
>>> 10,000 server requests per minute?
>> 
>> A minute's a long time.  That's only 167 connections per second.
>> 
>> Likely difficult for any CGI, and certainly for LC (see general performance 
>> relative to PHP, and the 70+% of LC boot time spent initializing fonts that 
>> are almost never used in CGIs - BZ# 14115).
>> 
>> But there are other ways beyond CGI.
>> 
>> A couple years ago Pierre Sahores and I traded notes here on this list about 
>> tests run with LC socket servers.  There's a lot across multiple threads, 
>> but this may be a good starting point:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/225068.html
>> 
>> One thing is clear:  if high concurrency is a requirement, use something 
>> dedicated to manage comms between connected clients and a pool of workers.
>> 
>> My own tests were measuring lchttpd against Apache, a different model but 
>> instructive here because it's still about socket comms.  What I found was 
>> that an httpd written in LC was outmatched by Apache two-fold.  But that 
>> also means that a quickly-thrown-together httpd script in LC was about half 
>> as fast as the world's most popular httpd written in C by hundreds of 
>> contributors specializing in that task.
>> 
>> So, promising for certain tasks. :)
>> 
>> The key with my modded fork of the old mchttpd stack was rewriting all 
>> socket comms to use callbacks.  The original used callbacks only for 
>> incoming POST, but I extended that to include all writes as well.
>> 
>> Applying this to your scenario:
>> 
>>   client  client  client
>>  
>> \   |  /
>>  internet...
>>   \ |   /
>> |--- HTTP SERVER ---|
>> | /   |  \  |
>> |  worker   worker  worker  |
>> |---|
>> 
>> 
>> While LC could be used in the role of the HTTP SERVER, that would be 
>> wasteful.  It's not an interesting job, and dedicated tools like Node.js and 
>> NginX will outperform it many-fold.  Let the experts handle the boring 
>> parts. :)
>> 
>> The value LC brings to the table is application-specific.  So we let a 
>> dedicat

Re: Another server question (mixing node.js and LC)

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thank you, Richard

A given transaction involves processing a user request, making two or three 
requests to the database, and returning around 500 kB to the user.

I certainly don’t need to load fonts in the LC process. Can that be turned off?

I like the idea of maintaining a queue of running LC processes and growing or 
shrinking it as needed based on request load.

How does the http server know which process to access?

I know that node.js has a pretty simple code for launching a CGI process and 
listening for a result. I don’t know how it would do that with an 
already-running process.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 28, 2018, at 12:22 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> jonathandlynch wrote:
> 
> > I have another server question. I really like scripting with LC,
> > because I can make improvements very quickly. This is important
> > because of my very limited free time.
> >
> > But, I want to be able to handle many many concurrent server requests,
> > the way node.js does.
> 
> Good timing.  Geoff Canyon and I have been corresponding about a related 
> matter, comparing performance of LC Server with PHP.
> 
> PHP7 is such a radical improvement over PHP5 that it's almost unfair to 
> compare it any scripting language now.  But it also prompts me to wonder: is 
> there anything in those PHP speed improvements which could be applied to LC?
> 
> 
> But that's for the future, and for CGI.  In the here-and-now, you're 
> exploring a different but very interesting area:
> 
> > Would it work to have node take In a request, launch an LC cgi
> > executable to process the request, set an event listener to wait
> > for LC to send the results back to Node, then have node return
> > the results to the user?
> >
> > This is not unlike using Apache to launch LC CGI processes, but
> > the asynchronous nature of node would, presumably, tie up fewer
> > system resources and allow for larger concurrency. This could mean
> > having a couple thousand LC processes running at any one time - would
> > that be okay as long as the server had enough RAM?
> >
> > In general, would this work for a system that hand to handle, say,
> > 10,000 server requests per minute?
> 
> A minute's a long time.  That's only 167 connections per second.
> 
> Likely difficult for any CGI, and certainly for LC (see general performance 
> relative to PHP, and the 70+% of LC boot time spent initializing fonts that 
> are almost never used in CGIs - BZ# 14115).
> 
> But there are other ways beyond CGI.
> 
> A couple years ago Pierre Sahores and I traded notes here on this list about 
> tests run with LC socket servers.  There's a lot across multiple threads, but 
> this may be a good starting point:
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/225068.html
> 
> One thing is clear:  if high concurrency is a requirement, use something 
> dedicated to manage comms between connected clients and a pool of workers.
> 
> My own tests were measuring lchttpd against Apache, a different model but 
> instructive here because it's still about socket comms.  What I found was 
> that an httpd written in LC was outmatched by Apache two-fold.  But that also 
> means that a quickly-thrown-together httpd script in LC was about half as 
> fast as the world's most popular httpd written in C by hundreds of 
> contributors specializing in that task.
> 
> So, promising for certain tasks. :)
> 
> The key with my modded fork of the old mchttpd stack was rewriting all socket 
> comms to use callbacks.  The original used callbacks only for incoming POST, 
> but I extended that to include all writes as well.
> 
> Applying this to your scenario:
> 
>client  client  client
>   
>  \   |  /
>   internet...
>\ |   /
> |--- HTTP SERVER ---|
> | /   |  \  |
> |  worker   worker  worker  |
> |---|
> 
> 
> While LC could be used in the role of the HTTP SERVER, that would be 
> wasteful.  It's not an interesting job, and dedicated tools like Node.js and 
> NginX will outperform it many-fold.  Let the experts handle the boring parts. 
> :)
> 
> The value LC brings to the table is application-specific.  So we let a 
> dedicated tool broker comms between external clients and a pool of workers, 
> where the workers could be LC standalones.
> 
> That's where much of Pierre's experiments have focused, and where the most 
> interesting and productive use of LC lies in a scenario where load 
> requirements exceed practical limitations of LC as a CGI.
> 
> The boost goes beyond the RAM savings from having a separate LC instance for 
> each CGI request:  as a persistent process, it obviates the font-loading and 
> other init that take up so much time in an LC CGI.
> 
> As with the lchttpd experiments, using callbacks for all sockets comms 
> between the LC-based workers and the HTTP SERVER wi

Another server question (mixing node.js and LC)

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hello,

I have another server question. I really like scripting with LC, because I can 
make improvements very quickly. This is important because of my very limited 
free time. 

But, I want to be able to handle many many concurrent server requests, the way 
node.js does.

Would it work to have node take In a request, launch an LC cgi executable to 
process the request, set an event listener to wait for LC to send the results 
back to Node, then have node return the results to the user? 

This is not unlike using Apache to launch LC CGI processes, but the 
asynchronous nature of node would, presumably, tie up fewer system resources 
and allow for larger concurrency. This could mean having a couple thousand LC 
processes running at any one time - would that be okay as long as the server 
had enough RAM?

In general, would this work for a system that hand to handle, say, 10,000 
server requests per minute?

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Why is node.js faster than LC server?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

As always, Mark - thank you for that excellent detailed response. It gave me 
much to consider.



Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 5, 2017, at 12:55 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Andre Garzia wrote:
> 
> > Some other languages support full threads and some even allow you to
> > fork().
> 
> Can you describe what you mean by fork() here?  In a discussion a while back 
> I made reference to an earlier post you'd made about fork(), but the response 
> from the engine team left me with the impression that it's merely the way 
> processes launch other processes.  Of course we can launch processes right 
> now in LC, so clearly there's something here I'm missing (forgive the naivete 
> of the question; I'm only halfway into Robert Love's Linux System 
> Programming).
> 
> 
> > ## THE ENGINE POOL ##
> > I believe it was Richard who did this, can't recall, it was definitely
> > not me. Keep a pool of engines running, lets say 20, use a node
> > balancer to round robin them.
> 
> I'm sure there are others, but I can recall three people who've experimented 
> with this sort of multiprocessing: Pierre Zahores, Mark Talluto, and myself.
> 
> My own explorations were very superficial.  I spent more time looking into 
> how much could be gained by maxing async behavior with callbacks within a 
> single LC process (because of course there's no point spawning multiple 
> instances of an inefficient process ).  I used the Raney mchttpd stack as 
> a starting point, updated to send proper modern headers so it can be used 
> with browsers made after 1999 , and revised to use callbacks for all 
> reads/writes.
> 
> The TL/DR (I was testing delivery of static files rather than DB access, so 
> the comparison was with Apache2):
> 
>   The bad news is that even a slender HTTPd in LC was only slightly
>   more than half as fast as Apache2.
> 
>   The good news was that a slender HTTPd thrown together in a couple
>   hours in LC scripts was more than half as fast as the highly-
>   optimized C written by a team of specialists in Apache2! :)
> 
> 
> 
> My takeaway was that, as nice as it is to get pretty good results from a 
> scripting language like LC, if I actually need scalable multiprocessing it's 
> better handled by teams/apps specializing in that.
> 
> You may find some of Pierre's posts in that thread interesting.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: Why is node.js faster than LC server?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

 balancer to 
>> round robin them. This allows you to answer at least 20 concurrent requests. 
>> Then engine pool is only desirable over our normal CGI method in one very 
>> specific case: The current LC server is CGI based, so it spawns a new engine 
>> for each request, if you're on a memory constrained machine that can't 
>> afford this escalation of memory and cpu usage, you keep a pool of engines 
>> in a safe threshold and use the pool. I can only see this working well on a 
>> raspberry pi, all other cases CGI should work better.
>> 
>> ## Curiosity nuggets of semi-related trivia ##
>> Oh, and sometimes even NodeJS is slow, check out this article I wrote couple 
>> weeks ago: http://andregarzia.com/en/blog/creating-rust-based-nodejs-modules 
>> in which I show a dramatic speedup in a NodeJS codebase by converting the 
>> most critical part of the code into a Rust based module. The code used to 
>> execute in 3 seconds and went to execute in 150 miliseconds.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> To make this happen, it seems like we would need an external that 
>>> multithreads database queries and sends the query results back to LC as a 
>>> new message. It would have to bring in a new ID for each request and return 
>>> that ID with the result.
>>> 
>>> Can the ODBC external do that?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> > On Dec 4, 2017, at 2:06 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > jonathandlynch wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Hi Richard and Andre - thanks for your replies. I was the one who
>>> > > mentioned millions of users at the same time, not out of drunkenness
>>> > > but because I wanted to understand the upper limits of these systems.
>>> >
>>> > Scaling is a fascinating problem.  I found the C10k problem a good 
>>> > starting point (in recent years supplanted with C10m):
>>> >
>>> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C10k_problem>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > I also found a thread discussing this idea from a few years ago that
>>> > > Richard was part of. It was very informative.
>>> >
>>> > I usually just quote Pierre or Andre, but once in a while my OCD habits 
>>> > with benchmarking add something useful. :)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > I think an all-LC very fast server would be a great thing, but it
>>> > > sounds like just using node would be more realistic. I might fiddle
>>> > > a bit with this idea, just to satisfy my curiosity.
>>> >
>>> > Node.js is good where Node.js is needed.  In some cases NginX is good. In 
>>> > other cases Lighttpd is fine.  And in many cases Apache is fine, even 
>>> > with simple CGI.
>>> >
>>> > Most of us never need to think about C10m, or even C10k.  If we do, 
>>> > that's a wonderfully fortunate problem to have.  Just having that problem 
>>> > makes it much easier to get funding to solve it with specialists.  Let 
>>> > the t-shirts sort it out while the suits focus on strategy.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Richard Gaskin
>>> > Fourth World Systems
>>> > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>> > 
>>> > ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>>> >
>>> > ___
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code.
>> http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service.
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Re: Why is node.js faster than LC server?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

odejs-modules 
> in which I show a dramatic speedup in a NodeJS codebase by converting the 
> most critical part of the code into a Rust based module. The code used to 
> execute in 3 seconds and went to execute in 150 miliseconds.
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> To make this happen, it seems like we would need an external that 
>> multithreads database queries and sends the query results back to LC as a 
>> new message. It would have to bring in a new ID for each request and return 
>> that ID with the result.
>> 
>> Can the ODBC external do that?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Dec 4, 2017, at 2:06 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> > jonathandlynch wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi Richard and Andre - thanks for your replies. I was the one who
>> > > mentioned millions of users at the same time, not out of drunkenness
>> > > but because I wanted to understand the upper limits of these systems.
>> >
>> > Scaling is a fascinating problem.  I found the C10k problem a good 
>> > starting point (in recent years supplanted with C10m):
>> >
>> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C10k_problem>
>> >
>> >
>> > > I also found a thread discussing this idea from a few years ago that
>> > > Richard was part of. It was very informative.
>> >
>> > I usually just quote Pierre or Andre, but once in a while my OCD habits 
>> > with benchmarking add something useful. :)
>> >
>> >
>> > > I think an all-LC very fast server would be a great thing, but it
>> > > sounds like just using node would be more realistic. I might fiddle
>> > > a bit with this idea, just to satisfy my curiosity.
>> >
>> > Node.js is good where Node.js is needed.  In some cases NginX is good. In 
>> > other cases Lighttpd is fine.  And in many cases Apache is fine, even with 
>> > simple CGI.
>> >
>> > Most of us never need to think about C10m, or even C10k.  If we do, that's 
>> > a wonderfully fortunate problem to have.  Just having that problem makes 
>> > it much easier to get funding to solve it with specialists.  Let the 
>> > t-shirts sort it out while the suits focus on strategy.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Richard Gaskin
>> > Fourth World Systems
>> > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>> > 
>> > ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>> >
>> > ___
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> 
> 
> -- 
> http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code.
> http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service.
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Re: Why is node.js faster than LC server?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

To make this happen, it seems like we would need an external that multithreads 
database queries and sends the query results back to LC as a new message. It 
would have to bring in a new ID for each request and return that ID with the 
result.

Can the ODBC external do that?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 4, 2017, at 2:06 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> jonathandlynch wrote:
> 
> > Hi Richard and Andre - thanks for your replies. I was the one who
> > mentioned millions of users at the same time, not out of drunkenness
> > but because I wanted to understand the upper limits of these systems.
> 
> Scaling is a fascinating problem.  I found the C10k problem a good starting 
> point (in recent years supplanted with C10m):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > I also found a thread discussing this idea from a few years ago that
> > Richard was part of. It was very informative.
> 
> I usually just quote Pierre or Andre, but once in a while my OCD habits with 
> benchmarking add something useful. :)
> 
> 
> > I think an all-LC very fast server would be a great thing, but it
> > sounds like just using node would be more realistic. I might fiddle
> > a bit with this idea, just to satisfy my curiosity.
> 
> Node.js is good where Node.js is needed.  In some cases NginX is good. In 
> other cases Lighttpd is fine.  And in many cases Apache is fine, even with 
> simple CGI.
> 
> Most of us never need to think about C10m, or even C10k.  If we do, that's a 
> wonderfully fortunate problem to have.  Just having that problem makes it 
> much easier to get funding to solve it with specialists.  Let the t-shirts 
> sort it out while the suits focus on strategy.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: Why is node.js faster than LC server?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Richard and Andre - thanks for your replies. I was the one who mentioned 
millions of users at the same time, not out of drunkenness but because I wanted 
to understand the upper limits of these systems. 

I also found a thread discussing this idea from a few years ago that Richard 
was part of. It was very informative.

I think an all-LC very fast server would be a great thing, but it sounds like 
just using node would be more realistic. I might fiddle a bit with this idea, 
just to satisfy my curiosity.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 4, 2017, at 1:40 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Andre Garzia wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> ...
> >> I don't even think we'd need tsNet for that.  Sockets should suffice
> >> for communicating between backend services, and using the "with
> >> messages" option makes them async; indeed that single-threaded
> >> message-driven approach is a big part of what makes Node.js so
> >> performant, offloading as much as practical from the process thread
> >> to the OS.
> ...
> > IMHO opinions it is not fair to compar NodeJS and LC Server on merits
> > of performance because they are really different beasts...
> ...
> > All this changes both inside the language itself and on top of it
> > in form of syntatic sugar serves one purpose only, give the developer
> > good ergonomics while keeping the code asynchronous/non-blocking.
> >
> > LiveCode is not an asynchronous language. It has some APIs that work
> > asynchronously when we want them to, but it is not a non-blocking
> > engine.
> 
> The stylistic differences, and their implications in implementation, is 
> indeed important.  Thanks for that outline.
> 
> Google's massive investment in JS will be hard to match for anyone seeking to 
> deliver equivalent systems.
> 
> Which leaves us asking:  When you want something like Nide.js, why not just 
> use Node.js?
> 
> 
> 
> > All our "PUT URLs" calls are blocking...
> 
> Take a second look at the original libURL code.  IIRC, in the course of 
> exploring some other issues in which what I wanted was truly sync behavior 
> but finding it difficult to actually achieve it, it seems libURL is using the 
> "with messages" option for socket calls, and where sync is needed that's 
> emulated within an async socket method.
> 
> Not sure why, and I've been tempted to write my own HTTP client code just to 
> make sure I get truly sync behavior when I need it (hoping I'll find a way to 
> get that with tsNet once I get back to that problem).
> 
> But if it's of interest, take a gander at libURL and let me know if I've 
> overlooked something.  If nothing else I'll finally have the true sync 
> behavior I'm looking for.  But we may also find that socket comms in LC, when 
> using the "with messages" option, use callbacks in a way that efficiently 
> leverages OS integration.
> 
> Of course this alone doesn't put LC on par with Node.js, for all the reasons 
> you noted.  But it does potentially offer opportunities for reasonably 
> efficient socket comms, which may be esp. useful on backends where all we 
> need are sockets, not necessarily encumbered with also supporting HTTP on top.
> 
> 
> > Your original email about scaling anything to millions of users
> > doesn't outline some needs of working at that scale.
> 
> If I ever wrote that I was drunk.  But I don't recall writing that; it's not 
> consistent with my thinking.  I've done enough testing on the C10k problem to 
> be well aware of the challenges of attempting C10m.
> 
> When big systems are needed, big ecosystems help.  As a 
> right-tool-for-the-right-job kinda guy, I generally advocate industry 
> standards for such things.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: Why is node.js faster than LC server?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thinking about this further...

Could we set up LiveCode to run on a VPS, so it is always live and listening to 
a port. When a request comes in, it would use TSnet to send an asynchronous 
request to a local database. When TSnet gets the callback, it passes the data 
back to LC, which processes it and passes the information to the user through 
the port. 

This would always be asynchronous and thus never get hung up waiting for a long 
request. It seems like it could be quite fast. Would that work?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 4, 2017, at 6:32 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> In looking at node.js it seems that two things stand out - LC server waits 
> for the database to send a reply, rather than setting an event listener, and 
> perhaps node.js launches faster when a request comes in?
> 
> Is this accurate? Could LC server be modified to run as fast as node? I would 
> love to feel comfortable using LC server for millions of users simultaneously 
> - which I realize would take more than just speeding up the server software.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone

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Why is node.js faster than LC server?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

In looking at node.js it seems that two things stand out - LC server waits for 
the database to send a reply, rather than setting an event listener, and 
perhaps node.js launches faster when a request comes in?

Is this accurate? Could LC server be modified to run as fast as node? I would 
love to feel comfortable using LC server for millions of users simultaneously - 
which I realize would take more than just speeding up the server software.

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: AcceleratedRendering States When Opening and Closing Stacks

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

It seems like having the layermode set to scrolling for everything forces it to 
draw too much stuff. What happens if you only do one at a time?

Mark W would know more. But, I have found one at a time means it only gives 
extra power where it is needed.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 29, 2017, at 9:11 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Jonathan:
> 
> The layermode of the scrolling groups is preset to "scrolling" 
> 
> The question is about the sequence as it relates to visual layer rendering
> 
> Open Stack A, turn on acceleratedRendering
> Open Stack B, which also turns on its "own" acceleratedRendering
> Close Stack A, *after* having open B "on top of Stack A
> 
> What are the issues, if any, with turning AcceleratedRendering On and off in 
> the above sequence, especially on Android. 
> 
> a) do we need a "super-nuanced" on and off with careful timing? Seems way too 
> difficult for any newbie unless we have very good documentation.
> 
> OR
> 
> b) is just this simple: 
> 
> acceleratedRendering only affects the visible stack on top and the engine, 
> the vRam/visible view that the user sees of the top stack is totally 
> unaffected by the state of the acceleratedRending of stack A above *during 
> and while* Stack B is opened and rendered on the device
> 
> the latter seems to be the case on iOS, on Android we are seeing a lot of 
> oddities. Debugging is virtually impossible since it works on iOS and 
> Desktop.. 
> 
> On Android, you can start throwing query dialogs.  after opening Stack B and 
> Closing Stack, you do
> 
> put the short name of the top stack into tTopStack
> 
> Answer tTopStack with "OK"
> 
> and you get "B" (the one just opened) but on screen we see Stack A (the one 
> just closed)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/29/17, 11:34 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Jonathan Lynch via 
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>Hi Swami,
> 
>I turn accelerated rendering on and off depending on which group the user 
> opens up. 
> 
>Are you setting the layermode of each group as you go?
> 
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Re: AcceleratedRendering States When Opening and Closing Stacks

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Swami,

I turn accelerated rendering on and off depending on which group the user opens 
up. 

Are you setting the layermode of each group as you go?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 29, 2017, at 1:41 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> We continue struggle with our app on Android and between mobile controls 
> being instantiated or deleted + oddities with acceleratedRendering, + remote 
> bugging not *really* working, it's a bit of a fishing expedition when 
> everything works on desktop and iOS.
> 
> A complete document on accelerated rendering, what it does, impact on the 
> engine, optimal usage etc would be useful. Right now my best option is to 
> look for "acceleratedRendering" Mark Waddington in this list. Maybe we should 
> compile all his replies and submit as a guide addition.
> 
> if your goal is to just improve the performance of mobile scrolling fields 
> and groups, and all cards in stack will have one of both or both of these… 
> then it makes sense to turn on acceleratedRendering in the preopenstack 
> handler… or course there are bugs there and work arounds, wait 200 seconds, 
> Panos "fixIt" … the fact that LC on Android will crash if you go home or app 
> switcher and the acceleratedRendering is on.
> 
> Setting all the above aside, assuming we implement the necessary 
> "hackarounds" questions today are
> 
> 1) Do we need to do this
> 
> on closeStack
> set the acceleratedRendering of this stack to false
> end close stack
> 
> or if you close the stack are all the mysterious overheads "costs" of 
> acceleratedRendering for that stack "wiped" from the engines brain, whether 
> you turn it off or no, with no residual impact on the rendering of views?
> 
> 2) assuming you do run that at close stack…if you open a stack B *before* 
> closing the stack A which has acceleratedRendering set to true   is there a 
> cost in terms of the engine ability to render everything in the newly opened 
> stack, remember we have not closed stack A yes. but stack B is now open "on 
> top"
> 
> OK simple version then is: what is best practice for this scenario
> 
> 1) stack "apples" is open, with acceleratedRendering set to true
> 2) we open stack "oranges" and set the acceleratedRendering of stack this 
> stack (now "oranges") to true
> 3) we close stack "apples"
> 
> how is this best handled, given that we see no problems with this in iOS?
> 
> Brahmanathaswami
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Developing Methods: Creating Scrolling groups larger than screen rect

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I write very extensive setLayout handlers that set the size, position, font 
size, and other characteristics based on screen dimensions. It is a pain, but 
if we do it from the start, apps will always fit any screen and look good.

In this way, copying or creating a new control on a group is sufficient. The 
layout will happen with the setLayout script.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 24, 2017, at 2:30 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Copy button "my button" to group "my group" 
> Set the loc of button "my button" of group "my group" to x,y
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 24, 2017, at 10:35 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Workin in 9.0.0 DP9 now. Old issues of editing groups seems to have gotten 
>> worse. selections lines around objects continue to appear even if you have 
>> select a different object, now the selection dashed lines remain on the 
>> previously selected object and it's as if we shift selected two object, but 
>> no, there is only 1 selected. when in group editing mode copy and paste 
>> object, the objects are pasted outside the group on the top layers of the 
>> card instead of in the group itself…
>> 
>> At any rate… working with it…
>> 
>> But I have a bigger question… How do you mobile pro develop scrolling groups 
>> either vertical sliders or horizontal sliders, which are, but their very 
>> nature, wider than the screen, or taller than the screen?
>> 
>> e.g. if you have a group that is 1200 px tall and the card is 736h. and you 
>> want to add objects to the bottom of the group, how do you go about it? If  
>> you set the scroll of the group to some big number like 1200… it will only 
>> scroll up to the bottom of the group (seems odd to me)  you don't get any 
>> extra space below the last item. so if you go to edit at that point, the 
>> group has no room below. one could temporarily increase the height of the 
>> stack, but if you have controls on the bottom that may not work well. and 
>> besides, you will run out of screen space anyway.
>> 
>> I can set the top of the group to -500, now we have room on the screen below 
>> the last rows of the group. but the IDE will not allow you to drag out the 
>> height of the group to make more room for more objects. If I try to edit the 
>> group, I can select and copy the objects in the last row, as noted above, 
>> they are pasted outside the group.
>> 
>> More struggle here than seems it should be.  But editing larger groups of 
>> with many objects has always seemed to be a challenge for the IDE "since 
>> forever"…
>> 
>> How do you do it?  I would try do it programattically, but there is no 
>> command like
>> 
>> "copy fld "link-label to grp "portal-scroller" at x,y"
>> 
>> which could b really useful in this context.
>> 
>> Brahmanathswami
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Developing Methods: Creating Scrolling groups larger than screen rect

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Copy button "my button" to group "my group" 
Set the loc of button "my button" of group "my group" to x,y

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 24, 2017, at 10:35 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Workin in 9.0.0 DP9 now. Old issues of editing groups seems to have gotten 
> worse. selections lines around objects continue to appear even if you have 
> select a different object, now the selection dashed lines remain on the 
> previously selected object and it's as if we shift selected two object, but 
> no, there is only 1 selected. when in group editing mode copy and paste 
> object, the objects are pasted outside the group on the top layers of the 
> card instead of in the group itself…
> 
> At any rate… working with it…
> 
> But I have a bigger question… How do you mobile pro develop scrolling groups 
> either vertical sliders or horizontal sliders, which are, but their very 
> nature, wider than the screen, or taller than the screen?
> 
> e.g. if you have a group that is 1200 px tall and the card is 736h. and you 
> want to add objects to the bottom of the group, how do you go about it? If  
> you set the scroll of the group to some big number like 1200… it will only 
> scroll up to the bottom of the group (seems odd to me)  you don't get any 
> extra space below the last item. so if you go to edit at that point, the 
> group has no room below. one could temporarily increase the height of the 
> stack, but if you have controls on the bottom that may not work well. and 
> besides, you will run out of screen space anyway.
> 
> I can set the top of the group to -500, now we have room on the screen below 
> the last rows of the group. but the IDE will not allow you to drag out the 
> height of the group to make more room for more objects. If I try to edit the 
> group, I can select and copy the objects in the last row, as noted above, 
> they are pasted outside the group.
> 
> More struggle here than seems it should be.  But editing larger groups of 
> with many objects has always seemed to be a challenge for the IDE "since 
> forever"…
> 
> How do you do it?  I would try do it programattically, but there is no 
> command like
> 
> "copy fld "link-label to grp "portal-scroller" at x,y"
> 
> which could b really useful in this context.
> 
> Brahmanathswami
> 
> 
> 
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Re: How to offset placement of referenced images?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I have done this by putting the image inside a group with a locked rect. It 
worked quite well.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 22, 2017, at 3:25 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> We need to occasionally Offset referenced images in their frame.
> place a large image into a small rect; move that image internally so that a 
> given area of the composition is focused/centered in the image area.
> 
> I thought I knew how to do that, but today the method escapes me. Is it 
> possible? basically you would set the top left or top of the image data to 
> some offset relative to the rect of the image object that contains it.
> 
> Perhaps my head is munging  Livecode  with the power of CSS to use offsets 
> like this to leverage single images "sprites" that contain multiple icons 
> which are simply shown by changing offsets of the background of a div
> 
> We could dynamically import these, and use crop, but we don't want to do that 
> because it bloats the stack in RAM
> 
> Hoping not to have to resort to masks and such. Is offsetting the imagedata 
> in a referenced image even doable? use the Cmd key plus dragging handles does 
> not work on referenced images. Looks like it implements crop internally which 
> can only operate on imported imageData. Strange effects on screen…
> 
> Brahmanathaswami
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: How to to type bottom to up and right to left in a field

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Maybe share a sample stack when you get it worked out? This could be useful for 
users in places that use right-to-left text. We could with sticking points that 
way.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 21, 2017, at 2:03 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> dominant

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Re: SivaSiva iOS App Approved - Android Issues/AcceleratedRendering issues

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I was in the app and went to the section where it profiled your community 
members with a browser widget, pulled from your website, I think. When I got 
out and got back in, I had to navigate to the same place. With Ralph's plist 
hack, on iOS, it will sleep rather than close. That way, when you get back into 
it, the app is in the same place as when you left.

I was just giving you my initial observations.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 19, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> I'm not sure exactly what this "stay in sleep mode" gets us… but yes, it's an 
> interesting option.
> 
> if we use this hack, would the audio continue to play when the user goes out ?
> 
> Why are you recommending it?
> 
> ---
> 
> "imagery"
> 
> Yes, with 400,000 still images on our in-house server and 30 years of 
> commissioned art work I'm try to leverage stills as much as we can.
> 
> I'm planning to fix the wretched scrolling on the home screen asap by 
> flattening those groups and bring the one scrolling group to the top layer on 
> "its own" so to speak. Most of the will be deprecated in V1.1 as we build 
> more robust UI/UX to the content what you see was just to get us going.
> 
> Accolades don't help me, I prefer Ruthless Critique (some of my brothers here 
> have already issued scathing reviews 
> 
> "I love the app etc and don't take this the wrong way….[the good and the bad]"
> 
> So if you are into being a design reviewer… email me off list.
> 
> 
> On 9/18/17, 9:45 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Jonathan Lynch via 
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>Hi Swami,
> 
>I love the imagery in this app :)
> 
>Have you considered using the plist hack so your app can stay in sleep 
> mode in the background?
> 
> 
> 
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Re: SivaSiva iOS App Approved - Android Issues/AcceleratedRendering issues

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Swami,

I love the imagery in this app :)

Have you considered using the plist hack so your app can stay in sleep mode in 
the background?



Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 18, 2017, at 5:48 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> We are very happy to announce that Apple approved SivaSiva App V1 and it is 
> now available at the app store.  search for "SivaSiva" all one word.
> 
> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/spiritual-workout/id1271260502?mt=8
> 
> But we still have problems with the Android version.
> 
> you can download RC7 for Android SivaSiva.apk from here
> 
> http://dev.himalayanacademy.com/looklisten/apps/sivasiva/
> 
> open thatpage on your android device, scroll down to the link.
> 
> -
> Issue: Android Standalone built with 8.1.7-rc-1
> 
> whenever we use the home button or app switcher in the app.
> 
> if the stack we are leaving from has acceleratedRendering set to true (all 
> most all stacks) when we return to the app from going out via HOME or App 
> switcher it crashes on Android.
> 
> For details:
> 
> see bug 20419
> 
> Brahmanathaswami
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Vector graphics, again

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I looked into this a few years ago for a project - just converting images into 
SVG. It is a very difficult problem to do in LC, because the application has to 
trace out lines and convert them to vectors. This is not too bad for very 
simple black and white images. When the images involve complex shapes and lots 
of colors, the resulting SVG files can be very large, with many many paths.

So, you could take a snapshot of a group to get an image file, then submit the 
image file to one of the online raster-to-vector converters. The resulting SVG 
may or may not be adequate, and may or may not work well in LC, but seems worth 
trying.




Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 8, 2017, at 5:55 AM, Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Not really . . . .
> 
> What Richmond wants to do is as follows:
> 
> Generate vector graphics from groups of images and/or fields in Livecode in 
> such
> a way thst they can be handled exactly in the same way as the SVG widget 
> (which
> Richmond is in love with).
> 
> R.
> 
>> On 08/09/17 00:25, hh via use-livecode wrote:
>> Jonathan,
>> Richmond wants to convert his bitmaps to SVG,
>> because he has no SVG version.
>> 
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Re: Vector graphics, again

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I was just suggesting an alternative solution.

Raster to vector conversions are clunky, but there are a few online services 
that do this.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 7, 2017, at 5:25 PM, hh via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Jonathan,
> Richmond wants to convert his bitmaps to SVG,
> because he has no SVG version.
> 
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Re: Vector graphics, again

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

You could keep it as a vector graphic in a browser widget, rotate it in the 
browser, then export it from the browser widget as an image for LC to use.

I know - it is an overkill solution, and it might be too slow if the dominoes 
are moving around quickly, but if not, it would work.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 7, 2017, at 5:22 AM, Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have found that Livecode is really fantastic for generating families of 
> images
> such as domino sets, which can be either imported from a group as images
> or exported as PNG images.
> 
> However, rotating those images results in all the "unfortunateness" involved 
> in
> rotating any image in Livecode that is not an SVG widget.
> 
> Is there a way in which one can generate an image from a group and import it 
> as a vector graphic
> and/or export it in a vector format, and/or make it into an SVG widget?
> 
> Richmond.
> 
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Re: I just posted an Augmented Earth sample stack on LiveCode share

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Alex - thank you!

It works a bit like Pokémon Go in that a mobile user can use it to walk around 
and explore the world. It loads new map tiles as you move. It needs mobile 
access to the net to do that.

I will explore options for mobile users for when they don't have net access, 
for the next release. 

I have never used LC9 - so I have not tested it that way. I will try it with 
LC9 and see what the problem is.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 6, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Jonathan, looks interesting - thank you for sharing it.
> 
> I have some problems (MacOS 10.10, Mcbook Pro, LC 9.0DP8 Business) - will 
> email them to you directly.
> 
> But (perhaps) more generally interesting for the list - I then tried to 
> download the iPad version, and ran into "This app is not compatible with your 
> iPad" - for all 3 of the family's iPads, covering a good range of iPad models 
> and IOS versions :-)
> 
> A close look at the "compatibility" section on the App store makes me think 
> that you require
> 
> " ... + Cellular".
> 
> Is there something in Augmented Earth that requires Cellular ?
> 
> Or has that flag been set for some reason ?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Alex.
> 
> 
>> On 06/09/2017 03:17, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>> I just posted a sample version of my app on LC share, AKA rev online.
>> 
>> It points to my dev server, so there are no problems with you guys posting
>> test reports.
>> 
>> Hopefully this will help you guys with 3D mapping experiments you may have.
>> The sample stack pulls images from open street maps without a license. This
>> is only appropriate for experimenting. For distributing apps, you will need
>> to get a license with a map provider.
>> 
>> If anyone has any questions about how to do any of the stuff demonstrated
>> in the app, please feel free to ask them here.
>> 
>> I posted it leading up to my presentation at LC Global on Sept. 21 on 3D
>> Earth mapping.
>> 
>> Peace,
>> 
>> Jonathan
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: I just posted an Augmented Earth sample stack on LiveCode share

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thanks Bill,

I look forward to your observations.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 6, 2017, at 3:15 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for posting this, Jonathon. I’ll definitely look at it. Right now my 
> wife and I are packing up to return to Santa Barbara. We’re in the Columbia 
> Gorge, where there is a wildfire raging about 20 miles away from us and the 
> smoke is a real pain.
> 
> Thanks a bunch for sharing.
> Bill
> 
>> On Sep 5, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>> I just posted a sample version of my app on LC share, AKA rev online.
>> 
>> It points to my dev server, so there are no problems with you guys posting
>> test reports.
>> 
>> Hopefully this will help you guys with 3D mapping experiments you may have.
>> The sample stack pulls images from open street maps without a license. This
>> is only appropriate for experimenting. For distributing apps, you will need
>> to get a license with a map provider.
>> 
>> If anyone has any questions about how to do any of the stuff demonstrated
>> in the app, please feel free to ask them here.
>> 
>> I posted it leading up to my presentation at LC Global on Sept. 21 on 3D
>> Earth mapping.
>> 
>> Peace,
>> 
>> Jonathan
>> 
>> -- 
>> Do all things with love
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I just posted an Augmented Earth sample stack on LiveCode share

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hello everyone,

I just posted a sample version of my app on LC share, AKA rev online.

It points to my dev server, so there are no problems with you guys posting
test reports.

Hopefully this will help you guys with 3D mapping experiments you may have.
The sample stack pulls images from open street maps without a license. This
is only appropriate for experimenting. For distributing apps, you will need
to get a license with a map provider.

If anyone has any questions about how to do any of the stuff demonstrated
in the app, please feel free to ask them here.

I posted it leading up to my presentation at LC Global on Sept. 21 on 3D
Earth mapping.

Peace,

Jonathan

-- 
Do all things with love
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Re: Deploying to Android (Amazon Fire 7)

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

That last paragraph should say "My Files app" not "Amy Files app"

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 5, 2017, at 7:11 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> A few more pointers:
> 
> You need to have Android File Transfer installed on your Mac.
> 
> You need to put the android device into developer mode. You can find 
> instructions for this online.
> 
> When you connect the device to a Mac you need to go into the settings in 
> Android and change the setting for the connection from charging to file 
> transfer.
> 
> After you are in developer mode and after you have set it to allow file 
> transfers, drag the Android standalone file from your Mac finder app into a 
> convenient folder in the Android File Transfer app.
> 
> In the Android device, open up the Amy Files app and click on the file you 
> transferred. This will install the app. You can run it from there.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 5, 2017, at 6:22 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Peter,
>> 
>> Are you able to produce the android standalone file?
>> 
>> I just copy that file to my android device and click on it to install it. I 
>> find it much easier than iOS.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 5, 2017, at 4:56 AM, Peter Reid via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> OK, I've been round the various circles (Lessons, Forum trails, etc.) but 
>>> I'm completely confused!
>>> 
>>> On my Mac, I've tried installing Java SDK 8.144, Android Studio 2.3.3 and 
>>> set up LC 8.1.6 to point at the Android root.  However, I can't see how I 
>>> get to specify an Android device - a previous Android SDK had menu options 
>>> for this, but the Studio doesn't seem to offer this without diving into a 
>>> new project.
>>> 
>>> I'm a simple animal who needs a straightforward list of things to do in 
>>> sequence.  I'm trying to do the following:
>>> 
>>> 1. For me, install whatever I need to be able to develop Android apps on my 
>>> Mac (macOS Sierra 10.12.6), with LiveCode 8.1.6 Business. 
>>> 2. For a friend running Windows 7 64-bit, install whatever they need to be 
>>> able to develop Android apps with LiveCode 8.1.6 Community.
>>> 
>>> In both cases, the target device is the latest spec. Amazon Fire 7 Tablet 
>>> (2017).  For my friend, this is their 1st go at programming and I've 
>>> persuaded them to try LiveCode, with me setting it up for them and 
>>> providing tutoring support.  Between us, we're hoping to develop a very 
>>> simple app to help aged relatives and friends.
>>> 
>>> LiveCode emphasises ease and speed of development, which I agree with over 
>>> the 18 years I've used it (almost completely desktop/laptop developments).  
>>> However, getting set up for mobile development is confusing, tedious and 
>>> tortuous!
>>> 
>>> Please can someone give me 2 step-by-step guides for these 2 development 
>>> facilities.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> Peter
>>> --
>>> Peter Reid
>>> Loughborough, UK
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Deploying to Android (Amazon Fire 7)

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

A few more pointers:

You need to have Android File Transfer installed on your Mac.

You need to put the android device into developer mode. You can find 
instructions for this online.

When you connect the device to a Mac you need to go into the settings in 
Android and change the setting for the connection from charging to file 
transfer.

After you are in developer mode and after you have set it to allow file 
transfers, drag the Android standalone file from your Mac finder app into a 
convenient folder in the Android File Transfer app.

In the Android device, open up the Amy Files app and click on the file you 
transferred. This will install the app. You can run it from there.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 5, 2017, at 6:22 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Hi Peter,
> 
> Are you able to produce the android standalone file?
> 
> I just copy that file to my android device and click on it to install it. I 
> find it much easier than iOS.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 5, 2017, at 4:56 AM, Peter Reid via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> OK, I've been round the various circles (Lessons, Forum trails, etc.) but 
>> I'm completely confused!
>> 
>> On my Mac, I've tried installing Java SDK 8.144, Android Studio 2.3.3 and 
>> set up LC 8.1.6 to point at the Android root.  However, I can't see how I 
>> get to specify an Android device - a previous Android SDK had menu options 
>> for this, but the Studio doesn't seem to offer this without diving into a 
>> new project.
>> 
>> I'm a simple animal who needs a straightforward list of things to do in 
>> sequence.  I'm trying to do the following:
>> 
>> 1. For me, install whatever I need to be able to develop Android apps on my 
>> Mac (macOS Sierra 10.12.6), with LiveCode 8.1.6 Business. 
>> 2. For a friend running Windows 7 64-bit, install whatever they need to be 
>> able to develop Android apps with LiveCode 8.1.6 Community.
>> 
>> In both cases, the target device is the latest spec. Amazon Fire 7 Tablet 
>> (2017).  For my friend, this is their 1st go at programming and I've 
>> persuaded them to try LiveCode, with me setting it up for them and providing 
>> tutoring support.  Between us, we're hoping to develop a very simple app to 
>> help aged relatives and friends.
>> 
>> LiveCode emphasises ease and speed of development, which I agree with over 
>> the 18 years I've used it (almost completely desktop/laptop developments).  
>> However, getting set up for mobile development is confusing, tedious and 
>> tortuous!
>> 
>> Please can someone give me 2 step-by-step guides for these 2 development 
>> facilities.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Peter
>> --
>> Peter Reid
>> Loughborough, UK
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> preferences:
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Re: Deploying to Android (Amazon Fire 7)

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Peter,

Are you able to produce the android standalone file?

I just copy that file to my android device and click on it to install it. I 
find it much easier than iOS.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 5, 2017, at 4:56 AM, Peter Reid via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> OK, I've been round the various circles (Lessons, Forum trails, etc.) but I'm 
> completely confused!
> 
> On my Mac, I've tried installing Java SDK 8.144, Android Studio 2.3.3 and set 
> up LC 8.1.6 to point at the Android root.  However, I can't see how I get to 
> specify an Android device - a previous Android SDK had menu options for this, 
> but the Studio doesn't seem to offer this without diving into a new project.
> 
> I'm a simple animal who needs a straightforward list of things to do in 
> sequence.  I'm trying to do the following:
> 
> 1. For me, install whatever I need to be able to develop Android apps on my 
> Mac (macOS Sierra 10.12.6), with LiveCode 8.1.6 Business. 
> 2. For a friend running Windows 7 64-bit, install whatever they need to be 
> able to develop Android apps with LiveCode 8.1.6 Community.
> 
> In both cases, the target device is the latest spec. Amazon Fire 7 Tablet 
> (2017).  For my friend, this is their 1st go at programming and I've 
> persuaded them to try LiveCode, with me setting it up for them and providing 
> tutoring support.  Between us, we're hoping to develop a very simple app to 
> help aged relatives and friends.
> 
> LiveCode emphasises ease and speed of development, which I agree with over 
> the 18 years I've used it (almost completely desktop/laptop developments).  
> However, getting set up for mobile development is confusing, tedious and 
> tortuous!
> 
> Please can someone give me 2 step-by-step guides for these 2 development 
> facilities.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Peter
> --
> Peter Reid
> Loughborough, UK
> 
> 
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> preferences:
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Re: Does exporting a snapshot from a rect work on mobile?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

KeyboardActivated is working. However, getting the effective working screenrect 
is not producing a result different from the screenrect, meaning it does reveal 
the available space after the keyboard pops up.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2017, at 7:57 AM, Roger Eller via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Well, since the bug report indicates that 
> keyboardActivated/keyboardDeactivated
> messages were added to Android, if they are not working please report it.
> If you want to just use a general rule for a 'safe zone', then prompting at
> the top of the screen should work fine.
> 
> ~Roger
> 
> On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 7:31 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Roger - yup, this problem affects other development environments too.
>> Many have complained about it online. I currently force the input into the
>> top half of the screen. Do you think I should force it even higher?
>> 
>> I could just make the input go to the very top when a user enters it.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 1, 2017, at 7:25 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> The android version is 6.0.1.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 1, 2017, at 6:46 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Jacqueline,
>>>> 
>>>> Sadly, that did not help. It received the KeyboardActivated message,
>> and I had it check the effective working screenrect both at that point and
>> again in a handler set to trigger a second later. They all return results
>> as if the keyboard is not there.
>>>> 
>>>> This is on a galaxy tab E, with the OS from 2015, so it might just be
>> that this tablet is not very good. However, I need the app to work on most
>> android devices.
>>>> 
>>>> When I get a more powerful machine, I might test a few of these things
>> again. I can make it do different things depending whether a particular OS
>> resource is available.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> 
>>>> J
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 31, 2017, at 10:11 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> What happens if you check the effective working screenrect in a
>> keyboardActivated handler?
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>>>>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On August 31, 2017 8:04:45 PM Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Actually, never mind, that cannot be it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I tried the follow script:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> on mouseUp
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> create field "test height"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> select after field "test height"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> send getEWSR to me in 1 second
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> end mouseUp
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> on getEWSR
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> answer the effective working screenrect
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> delete field "test height"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> end getEWSR
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> it still returns the same screenrect that I get without using "effect
>>>>>> working", which is the screenrect of the device.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Any other ideas?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:51 PM,  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> A question for Mark Waddingham...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mark, in my app, in the place in question, the keyboard is activated
>> by a
>>>>>>> browser widget. Is it possible that this means it is not sending a
>> signal
>>>>>>> to LC to update the value of the effective working screen rect?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Aug 31, 2017, at 8:27 PM, jonatha

Re: Does exporting a snapshot from a rect work on mobile?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Roger - yup, this problem affects other development environments too. Many 
have complained about it online. I currently force the input into the top half 
of the screen. Do you think I should force it even higher?

I could just make the input go to the very top when a user enters it.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2017, at 7:25 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> The android version is 6.0.1.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 1, 2017, at 6:46 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Jacqueline,
>> 
>> Sadly, that did not help. It received the KeyboardActivated message, and I 
>> had it check the effective working screenrect both at that point and again 
>> in a handler set to trigger a second later. They all return results as if 
>> the keyboard is not there.
>> 
>> This is on a galaxy tab E, with the OS from 2015, so it might just be that 
>> this tablet is not very good. However, I need the app to work on most 
>> android devices.
>> 
>> When I get a more powerful machine, I might test a few of these things 
>> again. I can make it do different things depending whether a particular OS 
>> resource is available.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> J
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 31, 2017, at 10:11 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> What happens if you check the effective working screenrect in a 
>>> keyboardActivated handler?
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On August 31, 2017 8:04:45 PM Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Actually, never mind, that cannot be it.
>>>> 
>>>> I tried the follow script:
>>>> 
>>>> on mouseUp
>>>> 
>>>> create field "test height"
>>>> 
>>>> select after field "test height"
>>>> 
>>>> send getEWSR to me in 1 second
>>>> 
>>>> end mouseUp
>>>> 
>>>> on getEWSR
>>>> 
>>>> answer the effective working screenrect
>>>> 
>>>> delete field "test height"
>>>> 
>>>> end getEWSR
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> it still returns the same screenrect that I get without using "effect
>>>> working", which is the screenrect of the device.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Any other ideas?
>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:51 PM,  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> A question for Mark Waddingham...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mark, in my app, in the place in question, the keyboard is activated by a
>>>>> browser widget. Is it possible that this means it is not sending a signal
>>>>> to LC to update the value of the effective working screen rect?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 31, 2017, at 8:27 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yes - it makes me want to share whatever I can.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Aug 31, 2017, at 7:14 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 08/31/2017 07:33 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>>>> Just a random comment - having the CTO of LC directly answer our
>>>>> questions is an incredible benefit to LC developers.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I also want to give a shout out to the supportive community here. This
>>>>> is by far the best online community I've ever had the honor of being a 
>>>>> part
>>>>> of. The level of paying things forward is outstanding.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Mark Wieder
>>>>>>> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ___
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Do all things with love
>>>> ___
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
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Re: Does exporting a snapshot from a rect work on mobile?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

The android version is 6.0.1.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2017, at 6:46 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Hi Jacqueline,
> 
> Sadly, that did not help. It received the KeyboardActivated message, and I 
> had it check the effective working screenrect both at that point and again in 
> a handler set to trigger a second later. They all return results as if the 
> keyboard is not there.
> 
> This is on a galaxy tab E, with the OS from 2015, so it might just be that 
> this tablet is not very good. However, I need the app to work on most android 
> devices.
> 
> When I get a more powerful machine, I might test a few of these things again. 
> I can make it do different things depending whether a particular OS resource 
> is available.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> J
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 31, 2017, at 10:11 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> What happens if you check the effective working screenrect in a 
>> keyboardActivated handler?
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On August 31, 2017 8:04:45 PM Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Actually, never mind, that cannot be it.
>>> 
>>> I tried the follow script:
>>> 
>>> on mouseUp
>>> 
>>> create field "test height"
>>> 
>>> select after field "test height"
>>> 
>>> send getEWSR to me in 1 second
>>> 
>>> end mouseUp
>>> 
>>> on getEWSR
>>> 
>>> answer the effective working screenrect
>>> 
>>> delete field "test height"
>>> 
>>> end getEWSR
>>> 
>>> 
>>> it still returns the same screenrect that I get without using "effect
>>> working", which is the screenrect of the device.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Any other ideas?
>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:51 PM,  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> A question for Mark Waddingham...
>>>> 
>>>> Mark, in my app, in the place in question, the keyboard is activated by a
>>>> browser widget. Is it possible that this means it is not sending a signal
>>>> to LC to update the value of the effective working screen rect?
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 31, 2017, at 8:27 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yes - it makes me want to share whatever I can.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Aug 31, 2017, at 7:14 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 08/31/2017 07:33 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>>> Just a random comment - having the CTO of LC directly answer our
>>>> questions is an incredible benefit to LC developers.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I also want to give a shout out to the supportive community here. This
>>>> is by far the best online community I've ever had the honor of being a part
>>>> of. The level of paying things forward is outstanding.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Mark Wieder
>>>>>> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ___
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Do all things with love
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> preferences:
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Re: Does exporting a snapshot from a rect work on mobile?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Jacqueline,

Sadly, that did not help. It received the KeyboardActivated message, and I had 
it check the effective working screenrect both at that point and again in a 
handler set to trigger a second later. They all return results as if the 
keyboard is not there.

This is on a galaxy tab E, with the OS from 2015, so it might just be that this 
tablet is not very good. However, I need the app to work on most android 
devices.

When I get a more powerful machine, I might test a few of these things again. I 
can make it do different things depending whether a particular OS resource is 
available.

Thanks!

J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2017, at 10:11 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> What happens if you check the effective working screenrect in a 
> keyboardActivated handler?
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On August 31, 2017 8:04:45 PM Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Actually, never mind, that cannot be it.
>> 
>> I tried the follow script:
>> 
>> on mouseUp
>> 
>> create field "test height"
>> 
>> select after field "test height"
>> 
>> send getEWSR to me in 1 second
>> 
>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> on getEWSR
>> 
>> answer the effective working screenrect
>> 
>> delete field "test height"
>> 
>> end getEWSR
>> 
>> 
>> it still returns the same screenrect that I get without using "effect
>> working", which is the screenrect of the device.
>> 
>> 
>> Any other ideas?
>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:51 PM,  wrote:
>>> 
>>> A question for Mark Waddingham...
>>> 
>>> Mark, in my app, in the place in question, the keyboard is activated by a
>>> browser widget. Is it possible that this means it is not sending a signal
>>> to LC to update the value of the effective working screen rect?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> > On Aug 31, 2017, at 8:27 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Yes - it makes me want to share whatever I can.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> >
>>> >>> On Aug 31, 2017, at 7:14 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 08/31/2017 07:33 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>> >>> Just a random comment - having the CTO of LC directly answer our
>>> questions is an incredible benefit to LC developers.
>>> >>
>>> >> I also want to give a shout out to the supportive community here. This
>>> is by far the best online community I've ever had the honor of being a part
>>> of. The level of paying things forward is outstanding.
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Mark Wieder
>>> >> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>>> >>
>>> >> ___
>>> >> use-livecode mailing list
>>> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Do all things with love
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
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> preferences:
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Re: Subject: Re: LC and OneSignal

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Todd,

I share on LiveCode share and a few things on the forum. Will that do?

They are not organized like Git Hub, but easy enough for my needs.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2017, at 3:25 AM, Todd Fabacher via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello LiveCoders,
> 
> Good News!!!  The team of Digital Pomegranate did a project with onesignal 
> push
> notification last year. We are actually in the progress of upgrading the
> lib now. So if someone is interested in it, please contact me and I will
> make arrangements to get you a version.
> 
> Also as an added side note. We are upgrading our WordPress Rest API to
> tsNet for Async communications and upgrading to the new WP + Woo Commerce
> changes.
> 
> We are looking to put all of the work we do in LiveCode on the internet.
> Most will be open source [as much as we can because some we have NDAs on
> and we can release code] and we are thinking that we can put in a section
> on our website.  But LiveCode could use the LiveCode.org to create a
> section that lists open source projects and where to download the code.
> 
> There needs to be a better way for all of us to share projects and
> code snippets.
> Any suggestions We can build and host something if there is a good
> idea. For all of our benefits, we should grow the community by 10,000. They
> will take efforts from EVERYONE.
> 
> --Todd
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Re: Does exporting a snapshot from a rect work on mobile?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Actually, never mind, that cannot be it.

I tried the follow script:

on mouseUp

create field "test height"

select after field "test height"

send getEWSR to me in 1 second

end mouseUp

on getEWSR

answer the effective working screenrect

delete field "test height"

end getEWSR


it still returns the same screenrect that I get without using "effect
working", which is the screenrect of the device.


Any other ideas?

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:51 PM,  wrote:

> A question for Mark Waddingham...
>
> Mark, in my app, in the place in question, the keyboard is activated by a
> browser widget. Is it possible that this means it is not sending a signal
> to LC to update the value of the effective working screen rect?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 31, 2017, at 8:27 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Yes - it makes me want to share whatever I can.
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >>> On Aug 31, 2017, at 7:14 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 08/31/2017 07:33 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
> >>> Just a random comment - having the CTO of LC directly answer our
> questions is an incredible benefit to LC developers.
> >>
> >> I also want to give a shout out to the supportive community here. This
> is by far the best online community I've ever had the honor of being a part
> of. The level of paying things forward is outstanding.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mark Wieder
> >> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> >>
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
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Re: Does exporting a snapshot from a rect work on mobile?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

A question for Mark Waddingham...

Mark, in my app, in the place in question, the keyboard is activated by a 
browser widget. Is it possible that this means it is not sending a signal to LC 
to update the value of the effective working screen rect?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2017, at 8:27 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Yes - it makes me want to share whatever I can.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Aug 31, 2017, at 7:14 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 08/31/2017 07:33 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Just a random comment - having the CTO of LC directly answer our questions 
>>> is an incredible benefit to LC developers.
>> 
>> I also want to give a shout out to the supportive community here. This is by 
>> far the best online community I've ever had the honor of being a part of. 
>> The level of paying things forward is outstanding.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Wieder
>> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
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Re: Does exporting a snapshot from a rect work on mobile?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Yes - it makes me want to share whatever I can.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2017, at 7:14 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 08/31/2017 07:33 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>> Just a random comment - having the CTO of LC directly answer our questions 
>> is an incredible benefit to LC developers.
> 
> I also want to give a shout out to the supportive community here. This is by 
> far the best online community I've ever had the honor of being a part of. The 
> level of paying things forward is outstanding.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
> ___
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> preferences:
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Re: Does exporting a snapshot from a rect work on mobile?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Mark,

Unfortunately, the screen rect and the effective working screen rect return the 
exact same results on this Android device - 0,0,800,1280.

Do you have any other suggestions for determining the keyboard height on 
Android? I am willing to pursue my hack, but it is a pretty rough hack.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2017, at 10:33 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Just a random comment - having the CTO of LC directly answer our questions is 
> an incredible benefit to LC developers.
> 
> Thanks Mark
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 31, 2017, at 10:22 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> I have not tried that - wow, that could really help. I will check later 
>> today!
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Aug 31, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 On 2017-08-31 15:34, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
 I can work with getting a snapshot just from the browser widget, for
 my particular case. As long as it also includes the keyboard in the
 image.
>>> 
>>> Have you tried 'the [[effective] working] screenRect'?
>>> 
>>> I think 'the effect working screenRect' should give you the portion of the 
>>> screen not covered by furniture and the keyboard.
>>> 
>>> Warmest Regards,
>>> 
>>> Mark.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>>> 
>>> ___
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Re: LC and OneSignal

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Bill,

Augmented Earth includes in-app messaging. I am going to share the code before 
my presentation on September 21. I could also directly share the database code 
with you.

It seems that you are not looking to set up a server, but if you go that way, 
you are welcome to use my code.

J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2017, at 12:10 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Folks:
> Implementing onesignal push notification in an app sounds very useful to me 
> for an emergency alert system I’m developing for my local community (for 
> free). I can see that a lot of the implementation, for me, will take a lot of 
> head scratching and a large time commitment for me to implement with 
> unfamiliar API’s. If anyone has a skeleton implementation they would be 
> willing to share, I would be very grateful.’
> 
> As an aside, I noticed that the free service means you are sharing your user 
> data with them. You pay if you want it private.
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
>> On Aug 30, 2017, at 9:03 PM, Jose Enrique Montero via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Dan !
>> 
>> 
>> Could you implement it via API onesignal?
>> 
>> pushNotificationRegistered  in livecode
>> 
>> and
>> 
>> post  like https://documentation.onesignal.com/reference#add-a-device ?
>> 
>> 
>> best regard
>> 
>> Jose Montero
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Re: Does exporting a snapshot from a rect work on mobile?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Just a random comment - having the CTO of LC directly answer our questions is 
an incredible benefit to LC developers.

Thanks Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2017, at 10:22 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> I have not tried that - wow, that could really help. I will check later today!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Aug 31, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 2017-08-31 15:34, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I can work with getting a snapshot just from the browser widget, for
>>> my particular case. As long as it also includes the keyboard in the
>>> image.
>> 
>> Have you tried 'the [[effective] working] screenRect'?
>> 
>> I think 'the effect working screenRect' should give you the portion of the 
>> screen not covered by furniture and the keyboard.
>> 
>> Warmest Regards,
>> 
>> Mark.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>> 
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Re: Does exporting a snapshot from a rect work on mobile?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I have not tried that - wow, that could really help. I will check later today!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 2017-08-31 15:34, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I can work with getting a snapshot just from the browser widget, for
>> my particular case. As long as it also includes the keyboard in the
>> image.
> 
> Have you tried 'the [[effective] working] screenRect'?
> 
> I think 'the effect working screenRect' should give you the portion of the 
> screen not covered by furniture and the keyboard.
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
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Re: Does exporting a snapshot from a rect work on mobile?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Mark,

I am trying to hack together a way to detect the height of the keyboard on 
Android. My plan is to have an image 1-pixel wide, but full height of the 
screen, with an rgb color of 0,0,1. 

If the snapshot includes the keyboard, then the image data of the snapshot will 
include a point where the color changes to something other than 0,0,1. I can 
use that point to calculate how high the keyboard is.

Yes, this is a ridiculous hack, but I do not see another solution.

I can work with getting a snapshot just from the browser widget, for my 
particular case. As long as it also includes the keyboard in the image.

I still have to test for that.

Thanks for looking into this issue.

J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2017, at 8:25 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jonathan,
> 
>> On 2017-08-31 14:09, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>> Thanks for checking Paul. It appears that, with a browser widget on
>> screen, I am only getting an image from the parts of the screen with
>> the browser widget.
>> With import snapshot, the non-browser parts of the image are
>> transparent (and black). With exporting a snapshot to a variable and
>> putting that variable into an image, the non-browser parts are visible
>> but black.
>> I will do more exploring and file a bug report if I can isolate the issue 
>> more.
> 
> This is http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9992 - back when this was 
> reported there was no way to do as you are wanting. However, it seems like 
> since then there is a new way to get a snapshot of the screen:
> 
> https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uiview/1622589-drawviewhierarchyinrect
> 
> So we can try that to fix the problem (it might still not work for some layer 
> types).
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
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Re: Does exporting a snapshot from a rect work on mobile?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thanks for checking Paul. It appears that, with a browser widget on screen, I 
am only getting an image from the parts of the screen with the browser widget.

With import snapshot, the non-browser parts of the image are transparent (and 
black). With exporting a snapshot to a variable and putting that variable into 
an image, the non-browser parts are visible but black.

I will do more exploring and file a bug report if I can isolate the issue more.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2017, at 12:56 AM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I just ran a quick test and it works OK for me using LC8.1.6 on MacOS Sierra 
> 10.12.6, build for iOS10 and tested on iPhone 5s running iOS10.3.3
> 
> HTH
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
>> On Aug 30, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I am getting all black in the image, but I checked and the rect is the 
>> correct rect.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
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Does exporting a snapshot from a rect work on mobile?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I am getting all black in the image, but I checked and the rect is the correct 
rect.

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Bad Crash on Attempt to Group Radio Buttons

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Ah - thanks

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 27, 2017, at 11:39 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> CantSelect disallows selection by the edit tool, mostly used in development, 
> but doesn't change the message path.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On August 27, 2017 9:25:28 AM Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> If you click a button with cantselect set to true, what object receives the 
>> click?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Aug 27, 2017, at 6:20 AM, hh via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>> JLG wrote:
>>>> ... But it should be easier.
>>> 
>>> You could use tinyDictionary.
>>> 
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Re: Bad Crash on Attempt to Group Radio Buttons

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

If you click a button with cantselect set to true, what object receives the 
click?

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 27, 2017, at 6:20 AM, hh via use-livecode 
 wrote:

>> JLG wrote:
>> ... But it should be easier.
> 
> You could use tinyDictionary.
> 
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Adjusting browser widget contents for the keyboard in android

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Has anyone had success with this? I have tried many suggestions from stack 
overflow and other sites with no luck.

On an iPad this happens automatically. Not at all on android.

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Thoughts on BLOBs in SQLite

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

The advantage comes if you are displaying the image through a web browser - you 
can put in the URL for the image and let the webview handle concurrent image 
loading.

I still went the other way, for other reasons, but that is one of the 
advantages.

The other is database file size.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 24, 2017, at 10:56 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Tom Glod wrote:
> 
>so I base encode the binary variable and then save it in a text field in
>table. no problems and no bs ever.
> 
> 
> Others do this also. I'm curious from an "uber architecture" point of view, 
> what pros there are to keeping the image data in a base encoded form in the 
> data base versus just keeping a file.jpg on disk?
> 
> BR
> 
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Re: Browser widget android local file problem

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Alan - setting the htmltext of the widget works fine for me. My map data 
comes from Bing. What is going wrong when you do that?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 24, 2017, at 9:29 AM, Alan via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Am having a problem loading a local file that displays a Google map on the 
> Android emulator. LC 8.1.6.
> 
> I was also having a problem with local HTML files in general, but got that 
> going. Using the same method for a dynamically created map document, located 
> in the specialfolderpath("documents") folder doesn't seem to work. See below 
> for code that doesn't work followed by code that works.
> 
> 1. Code that doesn't work is (using a file from the "documents" 
> specialFolder):
> ---
>   put specialFolderPath("documents") & slash & "MAP.html" into tMapFile
>-- tMapFile = /data/data/com.scruffmonkey.echidnaCSI/files/MAP.html   -- 
> Why is the path /data/data/...  and not /data/app/...  as in the next example?
>   if the platform contains "android" then
>set the url of widget "myMap" to tMapFile
>   else
>put fileConvertToFileURL(tMapFile) into tURL
>set the url of widget "myMap" to (tURL)
>   end if
> ---
> 
> 
> 2. While code that works is (using a file from the resources folder):
> ---
>  put specialFolderPath("resources") & "/data/fun_facts.html" into tFile
> -- tFile = 
> /data/app/com.scruffmonkey.echidnaCSI-2/base.apk/data/fun_facts.html
>  if the platform contains "android" then
> set the url of widget "infoscroll" to (tFile)
>  else
> put fileConvertToFileURL(tFile) into tURL
> set the url of widget "infoscroll" to (tURL)
>  end if
> ---
> 
> 
> Any ideas why there's a difference between the resources and documents 
> specialFolderPaths?
> 
> Why does the "documents" specialFolderPath here start with /data/data/  and 
> the resources one start with /data/app/  ??
> 
> I've also tried setting the HTMLText of the widget but that also doesn't seem 
> to work.
> 
> Help please! :-)
> 
> cheers
> 
> Alan
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Re: Sending a message to users that floats above everything

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I hate to hide the map just for something like adjusting the range at which one 
can see markers.

That said, yours is probably the best currently available solution. It would be 
easy to hide and show the current group as needed.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 24, 2017, at 6:00 AM, hh via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Jonathan wrote:
>> What is the best way to send a message to users that floats above
>> everything else, including browser widgets?
>> ...
>> Would it be possible in LCB to make a float-above-everything (including
>> browser) dialog?
> 
> Didn't read the whole huge thread, so in case it is not already said:
> 
> Floating above everything else is easy if everything else is invisible.
> So why not hide everything else and display a beautiful custom dialog?
> 
> 
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Re: Sending a message to users that floats above everything

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Would it be possible in LCB to make a float-above-everything (including 
browser) dialog?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 24, 2017, at 4:49 AM, Keith Martin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 21 Aug 2017, at 18:53, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> 
>> If you want native appearance they are inappropriate.
> 
> Ah, a slightly different thing to what I first assumed. Answer dialogs as a 
> concept have an important place, of course. But yes, non-standard 
> UI/appearance for stuff that *should* be standard is Just Wrong.
> 
> k
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> Keith Martin
> Senior Lecturer, LCC (University of the Arts London)
> Technical Editor, MacUser magazine (1997-2015)
> http://PanoramaPhotographer.com
> http://thatkeith.com
> +44 (0)7909541365
> 
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Re: "cleanser" for SQLite and UTF

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Have you looked up textencode and textdecode?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 23, 2017, at 6:45 PM, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I've really never paid much attention to UTF; 7 bit ASCII is fine for
> everything I've ever needed to do (save immigration forms, but that was
> handled by someone else's software).
> 
> Is there a "cleanser" hidden somewhere in livecode that converts arbitrary
> text to plain old boring (and those SQLite-able) text? ("UTF" itself yields
> no dictionary hits . . .)
> 
> -- 
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
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Re: Thoughts on BLOBs in SQLite

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

For Augmented Earth, the images are base 64 encoded. This is needed for 
transmitting. Also, I can store a variable number of images in a single blob 
cell, using a character outside of the base64 range as a delimiter between 
encoded images.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 23, 2017, at 12:48 PM, Glen Bojsza via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> My databases will be fixed in their content (basically they are going to be
> different test engines for students) so the images will not be edited nor
> changed.
> 
> I am thinking that this may help me avoid any future issues that may arise
> if different platforms have different directory structures and also for
> maintenance ... a single database file is easy to deliver and easy to
> delete.
> 
> So my next question would be does someone have a simple example stack in
> inserting an image and retrieving the image in a LC stack?
> 
> Should the image be encoded prior to inserting or is native format fine?
> 
> Glen
> 
> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Better is a relative term. Do you need to occasionally edit the images?
>> Will the database continue to grow over time? My instinct is to keep files
>> as files on the disk, because managing them is not dependent on access to a
>> database. However, having the images universally accessible in a multiuser
>> application is much easier if you store them in a database because then you
>> wouldn't have to deal with maintaining images on a users file system.
>> 
>> I keep the binary equivalent of blank PDF forms in a binary blob in mySQL.
>> This way I can create new PDF forms on the fly without much fuss. I do NOT
>> however, keep the FILLED forms in the database (although I've been tempted
>> to) because these will keep multiplying over the life of the application,
>> and I am worried about database bloat. Backups get larger and take longer,
>> and eventually this would pose a scalability problem if the app was used
>> extensively by a whole lot of people.
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
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Re: Thoughts on BLOBs in SQLite

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

You can also store multiple images in a single blob, which can be helpful.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 23, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Better is a relative term. Do you need to occasionally edit the images? Will 
> the database continue to grow over time? My instinct is to keep files as 
> files on the disk, because managing them is not dependent on access to a 
> database. However, having the images universally accessible in a multiuser 
> application is much easier if you store them in a database because then you 
> wouldn't have to deal with maintaining images on a users file system. 
> 
> I keep the binary equivalent of blank PDF forms in a binary blob in mySQL. 
> This way I can create new PDF forms on the fly without much fuss. I do NOT 
> however, keep the FILLED forms in the database (although I've been tempted 
> to) because these will keep multiplying over the life of the application, and 
> I am worried about database bloat. Backups get larger and take longer, and 
> eventually this would pose a scalability problem if the app was used 
> extensively by a whole lot of people. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Aug 23, 2017, at 09:11 , Glen Bojsza via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I was looking for feedback on whether it is better to store images as BLOBs
>> in an SQLite database for a LC app or store paths to the images in the
>> SQLite database and the images in a separate folder.
>> 
>> Any help in understanding possible performance and memory issues is what I
>> am looking for.
>> 
>> Can I assume that any issues would be the same for both Android and iOS?
>> 
>> thanks,
>> 
>> Glen
> 
> 
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Re: Goofy question #7234

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Sorry - old message that randomly popped up in my email!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 23, 2017, at 10:53 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> The "do" command converts text into a command. Like this:
> 
> Put "answer 5" into tcommand
> Do tcommand
> 
> This is useful in some situations, but usually it is more efficient to just 
> say:
> 
> Answer 5
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 10, 2017, at 11:23 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I wrote this explanation a long time ago for someone else:
>> http://www.hyperactivesw.com/resources_function.html
>> 
>> Also, in your command handler example, you don't need "do" which adds 
>> unnecessary overhead. This is enough:
>> 
>> on mouseUp
>> GoRed
>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On July 10, 2017 1:50:39 AM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I am obviously missing something . . .
>>> 
>>> . . . so badly so that I've been trawling Danny Goodman's "Complete" HC
>>> 2 . . .
>>> 
>>> and NOT getting 'it' . . .
>>> 
>>> SO: one can set up a custom command:
>>> 
>>> on GoRed
>>>  set the backGroundColor of card 1 to red
>>> end GoRed
>>> 
>>> and one can call it:
>>> 
>>> on mouseUp
>>>   do GoRed
>>> end mouseUp
>>> 
>>> and one can set up a custom function:
>>> 
>>> function GoRed
>>>  set the backGroundColor of card 1 to red
>>> end function
>>> 
>>> Now: is the reason I cannot call that function because it takes NO
>>> parameters?
>>> 
>>> Richmond.
>>> ___
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Goofy question #7234

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

The "do" command converts text into a command. Like this:

Put "answer 5" into tcommand
Do tcommand

This is useful in some situations, but usually it is more efficient to just say:

Answer 5

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 10, 2017, at 11:23 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I wrote this explanation a long time ago for someone else:
> http://www.hyperactivesw.com/resources_function.html
> 
> Also, in your command handler example, you don't need "do" which adds 
> unnecessary overhead. This is enough:
> 
> on mouseUp
> GoRed
> end mouseUp
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On July 10, 2017 1:50:39 AM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I am obviously missing something . . .
>> 
>> . . . so badly so that I've been trawling Danny Goodman's "Complete" HC
>> 2 . . .
>> 
>> and NOT getting 'it' . . .
>> 
>> SO: one can set up a custom command:
>> 
>> on GoRed
>>   set the backGroundColor of card 1 to red
>> end GoRed
>> 
>> and one can call it:
>> 
>> on mouseUp
>>do GoRed
>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> and one can set up a custom function:
>> 
>> function GoRed
>>   set the backGroundColor of card 1 to red
>> end function
>> 
>> Now: is the reason I cannot call that function because it takes NO
>> parameters?
>> 
>> Richmond.
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> 
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Re: attaching my group id to a control in a subgroup

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Can you have a function in the appropriate group that returns its unDna? This 
way, it will not matter about any subgrouping.

Function MyUnDna
Return the unDna of me
End MyUnDna

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 22, 2017, at 6:08 PM, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have a uniqDna value for each datum in my data.  This is used to store
> and retrieve it from a database.
> 
> When I create an output group for one of these (and there are a great many
> different output groups), the group is labeled with these IDs.
> 
> The output group will typically contain label fields and graphics, but gets
> its unDna set to the corresponding uniqDna.  It also contains fields for
> output.
> 
> When an output field is modified, the handler calls the seal routine,
> passing the field name, new value, and the unDna.
> 
> I had made, for performance reasons, the strong assumption that the output
> fields would always be a top level member of the output group.  I also
> designed output groups which, for organizational reasons, group the output
> fields . . . oops . . .
> 
> The closeField handler follows the rule, and assumes that the unDna of the
> owner of the target is the uniqDna value it needs.  This backfires when not
> true :(
> 
> One obvious solution would be to simply ungroup the offending groups--but
> there are good reasons to want it have subgroups (such as sharing subgroups
> for maintenance of similar outputs with shared elements).
> 
> At the moment, the three possibilities I see are,
> 1) recurse upwards until a group with a unDna is found (well, close; there
> are universal fields with no unDna)
> 2) check the owner of the owner of the target
> 3) redundantly set the uDna of every output field at group creation/copying
> time.
> 
> I need this to be blindingly fast, too (although I doubt that this is a
> problem in 2017).
> 
> Am I missing an obvious way to do this?
> -- 
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
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Re: Paint tools and image creation

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

If this were 3 years ago, I would be begging for this change. It does not 
affect me right now, though.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 22, 2017, at 3:20 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I added a comment to the bug report, but based on the amount of feedback so 
> far (almost none) I'd say the change probably wouldn't affect many people. 
> Whether it's a point-release change or a dev-release change is hard to say, 
> but unless more people object I'd say it isn't a major shift and it could be 
> implemented in any release.
> 
>> On 8/22/17 9:43 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> We had an issue come into support about using the paint tools on a grouped 
>> image - this has come up before (years ago, at least).
>> Basically, only the browser, pointer and help tools will recurse into groups 
>> - the paint tools will not. This means that if you use the paint tools over 
>> an image in a group, the grouped image will not get edited. Instead, if 
>> there is not a top-level image one will be created and that will be edited.
>> The question is - is this behavior something which should:
>>   1) Be considered a bug
>>   2) Be considered correct behavior
>>   3) Be considered an anomaly - i.e. something which is probably a bug, but 
>> too many people rely on to change without some sort of compatibility 
>> mechanism
>> I realize this is an edge case; however, I thought it worth asking to see if 
>> anyone here relies on the fact that images in groups do not get affected by 
>> paint tools; or whether it would be far better than if did!
>> Basically I'm trying to decide if it should be 'fixed' (assuming the current 
>> behavior is considered erroneous!), and if so whether it would be suitable 
>> for a maintenance release (it is, strictly speaking, a change in behavior), 
>> or only for a development release.
>> The bug report is here:
>> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20286
>> Any feedback gratefully received.
>> Warmest Regards,
>> Mark.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
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Re: Sending a message to users that floats above everything

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Export a snapshot of the main stack and use it as the background for the top 
stack?

That could work. Would need to test how fast it is and how well it works when a 
browser widget is up.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 22, 2017, at 2:03 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> It would really be great if we could pop over a substack on all platforms. 
> Can that be done in LCB?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 1:49 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Oooh I was thinking about toasting... err rolling my own!
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 10:41 , Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 2017-08-22 17:10, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
 Educate me, what is toast?
>>> 
>>> It pops up a small overlay on the screen with a message, which then fades 
>>> away after a fixed period of time. A bit like notifications on Mac, and the 
>>> small bubble that can appear above the taskbar on Windows.
>>> 
>>> Warmest Regards,
>>> 
>>> Mark.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>> 
>> 
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Re: Sending a message to users that floats above everything

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

It would really be great if we could pop over a substack on all platforms. Can 
that be done in LCB?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 22, 2017, at 1:49 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Oooh I was thinking about toasting... err rolling my own!
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 10:41 , Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> On 2017-08-22 17:10, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Educate me, what is toast?
>> 
>> It pops up a small overlay on the screen with a message, which then fades 
>> away after a fixed period of time. A bit like notifications on Mac, and the 
>> small bubble that can appear above the taskbar on Windows.
>> 
>> Warmest Regards,
>> 
>> Mark.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
> 
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Re: Completely OT - flat earth

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

They have described me as a "flat earth denier" and a "globetard" - so clearly 
they have constructed their own vocabulary and subculture. If they change their 
minds, they lose that feeling of belonging to a special club.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 22, 2017, at 11:06 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Here's the problem though. Trying to convince those who have made their 
> living teaching that the earth is flat, would have to admit that all those 
> hard long days and nights and years spent refining their "science" was all 
> for naught, a fools errand, and that indeed their entire life and reputation 
> is now in jeopardy. All the higher education, all the respected colleagues, 
> the money spent that maybe they are still paying back, all for nothing. And 
> you expect them to be honestly engaged in adopting a better way? No, the flat 
> earthers must be flat earthers for all posterity. They are all in. 
> Allegorically speaking. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Aug 21, 2017, at 12:53 , Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I just watched the eclipse where I live, while debating flat earth believers 
>> online. Some irony there, I suppose.
>> 
>> It reminded me of the time another programmer told me LiveCode was a toy. 
>> Years later when asked by management to duplicate the functions of an app I 
>> created so that those functionalities could be incorporated into that team's 
>> main app, that same programmer concluded it would be impractical because my 
>> app did way more than they realized. The app saves that team about 2 hours a 
>> day of expensive staff time, which is quite a lot considering they have used 
>> it for 10 years.
>> 
>> My point? The Earth is not flat. LC is great, even if some mainstream 
>> programmers are so entrenched, they cannot perceive its value.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
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Re: Paint tools and image creation

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

When I created Ready Wrigley Activities, I had to jump through all kinds of 
hoops to be able to draw inside a group.

I think that drawing on a grouped image should be standard.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 22, 2017, at 11:01 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> In my mind a paint tool is a 2 dimensional function. I can see using the 
> paint tool in a window displaying a single object that was not a group, kind 
> of like Microsoft Word does it. I cannot imagine trying to paint an object 
> inside a group as though an artist could reach his paintbrush 3 dimensionally 
> into his painting and touch up a bush that was behind a tree! 
> 
> Now if someone wanted to see  the effect his pain modification has on the 
> whole, then switching between an edit mode and a preview mode would be the 
> way to do that, kind of like Adobe Illustrator used to do. You could even 
> have a modifier key toggle it. 
> 
> But I am reinventing the wheel here. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 07:43 , Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> We had an issue come into support about using the paint tools on a grouped 
>> image - this has come up before (years ago, at least).
>> 
>> Basically, only the browser, pointer and help tools will recurse into groups 
>> - the paint tools will not. This means that if you use the paint tools over 
>> an image in a group, the grouped image will not get edited. Instead, if 
>> there is not a top-level image one will be created and that will be edited.
>> 
>> The question is - is this behavior something which should:
>> 
>> 1) Be considered a bug
>> 
>> 2) Be considered correct behavior
>> 
>> 3) Be considered an anomaly - i.e. something which is probably a bug, but 
>> too many people rely on to change without some sort of compatibility 
>> mechanism
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: lock screen gotcha revisited

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

This exactly. Globally on or globally off. Just unlock and lock again to update.

It is moot, but I would prefer it.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 21, 2017, at 6:47 PM, prothero--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I didn't realize that the lockscreen command only applied to the handler that 
> sets it. 
> 
> Does this mean that each script has to set lockscreen if it needs it? If 
> lockscreen was either globally true or not, you could do:
> 
> On doscreenstuff1
>Set lockscreen to true
> Handler1
> Handler2
> Set lockscreen to false
> End doscreenstuff1
> 
> On handler1
>--do screen stuff
>   Updatescreen
> End handler1
> 
> On handler2
>--do screen stuff
>   Updatescreen
> End handler2
> 
> Lockscreen could be set or unset multiple times or tested and left on if it 
> was already set when the handler was entered. 
> 
> I am not arguing the current system be changed though, but for me, my 
> suggestion is way more intuitive. Trying to keep track of the lockscreen 
> count seems prone to errors. My experience comes from past programming in 
> Lingo (Director) but the lcs way may be more obvious to more long term lcs 
> scripters, not to mention the breaking of older versions of apps. 
> 
> Best, 
> Bill P
> 
> William Prothero
> http://ed.earthednet.org
> 
>>> On Aug 21, 2017, at 12:48 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 8/21/17 1:28 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>> I agree with Bill. If you lock a door twice on a car, it is still just 
>>> locked. One unlock will open it up. That seems more intuitive.
>> 
>> Initially it's more intuitive, but if it were done this way you couldn't 
>> have handlers that manage locks both independently and when called from 
>> amother handler. For example:
>> 
>> on updateThings
>> lock screen
>> set the rect of 
>> set the loc of 
>> updateAllButtonLabels
>> unlock screen
>> end updateThings
>> 
>> on updateAllButtonLabels
>> lock screen
>> repeat with i = 1 to the number of btns
>>   set the label of btn i to the cDefaultLabel of btn i
>> end repeat
>> unlock screen
>> end updateAllButtonLabels
>> 
>> In this scenario, I can update only the buttons at any time, as well as 
>> updating them as part of a larger card update. In either case, the screen 
>> will remain locked until everything is done.
>> 
>> This is what I was depending on when I noticed that an unlock with a visual 
>> effect didn't honor the lock count. I was getting unexpected visual results 
>> when the screen unlocked in a handler being called by a larger one that had 
>> already locked the screen.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
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Completely OT - flat earth

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I just watched the eclipse where I live, while debating flat earth believers 
online. Some irony there, I suppose.

It reminded me of the time another programmer told me LiveCode was a toy. Years 
later when asked by management to duplicate the functions of an app I created 
so that those functionalities could be incorporated into that team's main app, 
that same programmer concluded it would be impractical because my app did way 
more than they realized. The app saves that team about 2 hours a day of 
expensive staff time, which is quite a lot considering they have used it for 10 
years.

My point? The Earth is not flat. LC is great, even if some mainstream 
programmers are so entrenched, they cannot perceive its value.

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: lock screen gotcha revisited

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I agree with Bill. If you lock a door twice on a car, it is still just locked. 
One unlock will open it up. That seems more intuitive. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 21, 2017, at 2:19 PM, prothero--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Seems like it would be much simpler if lockscreen just kept the screen locked 
> until unlockscreen was invoked, but there was an update screen command when 
> forced updates were needed. No counters to keep track of. 
> 
> Best
> Bill 
> 
> William Prothero
> http://ed.earthednet.org
> 
>> On Aug 21, 2017, at 10:40 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I would have to recreate it as my production stack has already been gone 
>> through, and it seems to be working as advertised, which would argue against 
>> it being an engine issue. I'll see if I can create a sample stack in the 
>> next couple days. Right now I have a couple service calls to go out on and 
>> that will probably eat up the rest of my day. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 21, 2017, at 10:28 , Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 2017-08-19 04:41, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
 Except when it doesn't. There seems to be an override in the lock
 count if any unlock uses a visual effect. I'm not sure if that's on
 purpose or not.
>>> 
>>> Internally there is a counter - and only one - the engine uses it too when 
>>> it needs to.
>>> 
>>> The lock is dropped as soon as you get back to a wait with messages though 
>>> (IIRC) (certainly the main runloop).
>>> 
>>> Unbalanced lock screens can cause problems though - the IDE has had a fair 
>>> few in the past - it might still... Do you have an example of the abberent 
>>> behavior you've seen? It would be useful to know if there is an engine 
>>> issue lurking here, or a misplaced lock/unlock screen in the IDE.
>>> 
>>> Warmest Regards,
>>> 
>>> Mark.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>> 
>> 
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Re: acceleratedRendering scope

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

It is on iOS. Turning it on and off as needed has worked perfectly, so it is no 
problem. Thanks for explaining!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 21, 2017, at 12:54 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 2017-08-21 18:51, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi Bob- I can report that accelerated rendering "steals" resources
>> from the browser widget. I have to turn it off when displaying a 3D
>> map in the browser widget, then turn it back on for scrolling groups.
>> Otherwise, the map renders in a very clunky way, with large sections
>> very distorted.
> 
> Is this on iOS or Android or both?
> 
> I'm not sure that's to do with any resource stealing - it's more to do with 
> the fact that the mobile OSes don't like mixing OpenGL based views with 
> non-OpenGL based views generally. You can limit the amount of texture RAM 
> accelRendering uses by setting the compositorCacheLimit (I think that's the 
> right property) which is the maximum number of bytes the engine will use for 
> the cache of tiles at any one time.
> 
> On iOS, in particular, putting a normal UIKit view (which the browser widget 
> is) on top of an OpenGL view (which accel render mode uses) tends to make the 
> OS not that happy. Of course, this might entirely depend on device too!
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
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Re: acceleratedRendering scope

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Bob- I can report that accelerated rendering "steals" resources from the 
browser widget. I have to turn it off when displaying a 3D map in the browser 
widget, then turn it back on for scrolling groups. Otherwise, the map renders 
in a very clunky way, with large sections very distorted.

It has to do with overstressing the GPU.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 21, 2017, at 12:43 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I meant to say, why not just have it on permanently?
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Aug 21, 2017, at 09:41 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all. 
>> 
>> Since acceleratedRendering is a stack property, does it only apply to a 
>> given stack, and not, for example to a sub stack? What would the advantage 
>> be of having it off? If none, why even have it? 
>> 
>> Bob S
> 
> 
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Re: Sending a message to users that floats above everything

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I like the dialogs on iOS. Simple, not offensive, clean.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 21, 2017, at 12:32 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Awww! Take it back! I use em all the time. Someone clicks the delete button, 
> I ask them if they are sure that is what they want to do. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Aug 21, 2017, at 08:41 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  Answer dialogs aren't appropriate for any OS any more.
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
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Re: lock screen gotcha revisited

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Bob - just an idea for a progress indicator - you could advance a progress 
indicator through a browser widget. This would work even when the screen is 
locked, allowing you to show progress while not having unlock and lock each 
time.

The widget requires a fair bit of overhead, so that might not be ideal, but it 
would work perfectly.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 21, 2017, at 11:08 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yup. My troubles came when I had a handler unlock the screen 5 times straight 
> and I do not lock the screen to that many levels. It still did no unlock the 
> screen, so now it may be that one handler cannot unlock another handler's 
> lock screen, which I was unaware of. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Aug 18, 2017, at 18:37 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> On 08/18/2017 03:50 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hard to say. I'm almost done finding every place I lock the screen and 
>>> adding an unlock screen in the same handler.
>> 
>> And that, of course, is the best procedure. Locking/unlocking the screen 
>> works on sort of a reference-counting approach. In general, locking the 
>> screen increments a counter, unlocking the screen decrements it. When the 
>> counter reaches zero, the screen is unlocked and all the pending updates 
>> take place.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Wieder
>> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
> 
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Re: keys on keyboard return different characters

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

If you get chartonum for these characters, are they also different?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 21, 2017, at 9:01 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Pressing the key harder makes a difference? How could that not be a hardware 
> thing? 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 21, 2017, at 7:39 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, have you ever experienced the following phenomenon?
>> 
>> A customer of me tells me that pressing a Umlaut key (äüö) on a German
>> keyboard sometimes shows the correct Umlaut in my LiveCode program, but
>> sometimes only hieroglyphs. Sometimes the correct char shows up after having
>> hit multiple times / or harder the same key. I am using the old standard
>> font Tahoma on stack level, inherited to all fields, which obviously is
>> installed on the machine, otherwise the correct chars never would appear.
>> Since this phenomenon only happens in my LiveCode (8.1.4) program, not in
>> Word or any other program, it must be related to LiveCode. But how and what?
>> Keyboard driver or foreign system font or language would affect all programs
>> on this machine.
>> 
>> Ever experienced anything similar?
>> 
>> Tiemo
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: keys on keyboard return different characters

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Pressing the key harder makes a difference? How could that not be a hardware 
thing? 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 21, 2017, at 7:39 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi, have you ever experienced the following phenomenon?
> 
> A customer of me tells me that pressing a Umlaut key (äüö) on a German
> keyboard sometimes shows the correct Umlaut in my LiveCode program, but
> sometimes only hieroglyphs. Sometimes the correct char shows up after having
> hit multiple times / or harder the same key. I am using the old standard
> font Tahoma on stack level, inherited to all fields, which obviously is
> installed on the machine, otherwise the correct chars never would appear.
> Since this phenomenon only happens in my LiveCode (8.1.4) program, not in
> Word or any other program, it must be related to LiveCode. But how and what?
> Keyboard driver or foreign system font or language would affect all programs
> on this machine.
> 
> Ever experienced anything similar?
> 
> Tiemo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Sending a message to users that floats above everything

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

This mislayering is with browser widgets that are grouped into different 
groups. Would that make a difference?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 21, 2017, at 8:24 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 2017-08-21 03:53, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>> I have been using "answer", "ask", and the mobile picker because they
>> appear on top. However, these system dialogs are not always pretty,
>> especially on Android. Is there another option? I tried using a
>> browser widget, but that does not always layer on top of another
>> browser widget, even if the layer in the widget is a higher number.
> 
> The layering of widgets which have a native layer (of which the browser 
> widget is one) *should* reflect the layer number. e.g.
> 
>   layer 1 - field (lc)
>   layer 2 - browser 1 (native layer)
>   layer 3 - button (lc)
>   layer 4 - browser 2 (native layer)
> 
> should be reflected as:
> 
>   field (bottom)
>   button
>   browser 1
>   browser 2 (top)
> 
> So if this isn't the case, then it deserves a bug report :)
> 
> Of course, browser views on android/iOS might be 'special' and causing the 
> problem themselves but assuming that isn't the case, it should work as you 
> described...
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
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Re: Is tsnet always better?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thanks Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 21, 2017, at 6:38 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 2017-08-21 02:25, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>> LC gives us multiple ways to connect to online databases. Is TSnet
>> always the best performing method?
> 
> Generally if you are accessing databases over the internet then fronting them 
> with an HTTP-based gateway is by far the 'best' option - especially when 
> considered from a security standpoint (that's not saying it completely 
> replaces direct socket access - the latter just requires more IT 
> infrastructure to ensure it is secure; which makes it less generally useful, 
> and probably best to avoid entirely in a mobile/unlocked down over-internet 
> access setting).
> 
> So, I'd say tsNet is definitely the best way to access HTTP APIs - it is more 
> efficient and has async (request with callback) for all HTTP method types 
> (well, it will in 1.3.1 - there's a couple of HTTP methods missing in 
> previous versions).
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
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Re: Sending a message to users that floats above everything

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I will check that out - thanks Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 21, 2017, at 5:18 AM, Dave Kilroy via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Jonathan - how about a toast? (on Android that is), I haven’t tested it but I 
> would assume it would appear above a browser…
> 
> Monte did an external some time ago (mergAndroid I think) that I’m pretty 
> sure included support for toasting :)
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Dave
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Re: Sending a message to users that floats above everything

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thanks Swami, I think you are right - but I really hate the way the answer 
dialog looks on Android.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 20, 2017, at 11:21 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Jonathan:
> 
> I don't think it is even/ever possible to get something to "float"on top of a 
> browser widget on Mobile.
> 
> I wish/hope  that I am wrong.
> 
> On 8/20/17, 3:53 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Jonathan Lynch via 
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>What is the best way to send a message to users that floats above 
> everything else, including browser widgets?
> 
>I have been using "answer", "ask", and the mobile picker because they 
> appear on top. However, these system dialogs are not always pretty, 
> especially on Android. Is there another option? I tried using a browser 
> widget, but that does not always layer on top of another browser widget, even 
> if the layer in the widget is a higher number.
> 
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Sending a message to users that floats above everything

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

What is the best way to send a message to users that floats above everything 
else, including browser widgets?

I have been using "answer", "ask", and the mobile picker because they appear on 
top. However, these system dialogs are not always pretty, especially on 
Android. Is there another option? I tried using a browser widget, but that does 
not always layer on top of another browser widget, even if the layer in the 
widget is a higher number.

Sent from my iPhone
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Is tsnet always better?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

LC gives us multiple ways to connect to online databases. Is TSnet always the 
best performing method?

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: keeping keys of an array in the order they came in?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

You could alter the name of the elements...

Put "X_" & tK into tArrayElement

Put tData into myArray[tArrayElement]

X would be created in a counting loop.

That way, when you get the keys of the array, you can sort numeric by item 1 of 
each, using "_" as the itemdel. This will give you the original order with just 
1 array dimension, and you can easily retrieve the value of tK.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 19, 2017, at 8:12 AM, jbv via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Klaus
> I've been there and the only solution I found was to maintain
> a second array :
> 
>  put 0 into x
>  put "abc" into array1[60]
>  add 1 to x
>  put 60 into array2[x]
>  put "xyz" into array1[30]
>  add 1 to x
>  put 30 into array2[x]
> 
>  put the keys of array2 into tkeys
>  sort lines of tkeys ascending numeric
>  repeat for each line j in tkeys
>put array1[array2[j]] & return after myvar
>  end repeat
> 
> You can also use a two-dimentional array instead
> of 2 separate arrays...
> 
> jbv
> 
> 
>> On Sat, August 19, 2017 1:33 pm, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi dfriends,
>> 
>> 
>> need a little help, I am filling an array (to eliminate doublettes) and
>> really need to keep the order of the keys as they came in.
>> 
>> Example:
>> ...
>> put "60,30,40" into tK repeat for each item tItem in tK put "sdsdsdsddsd"
>> into tArray[tItem] end repeat put the keys of tArray ...
>> Now I would like to get:
>> 60
>> 30
>> 40
>> 
>> 
>> This is just an example, I cannot control the content of tK.
>> Know what I mean?
>> 
>> 
>> Any hints very welcome, thank you!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> 
>> Klaus
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> http://www.major-k.de
>> kl...@major-k.de
>> 
>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: keeping keys of an array in the order they came in?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Maybe a two-part array?

Myarray[1,tk]

You can control the first part of the array, keeping it in order, and thus not 
depend on how LC orders the tK part of the array.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 19, 2017, at 7:33 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi dfriends,
> 
> need a little help, I am filling an array (to eliminate doublettes)
> and really need to keep the order of the keys as they came in.
> 
> Example:
> ...
> put "60,30,40" into tK
> repeat for each item tItem in tK
> put "sdsdsdsddsd" into tArray[tItem]
> end repeat
> put the keys of tArray
> ...
> Now I would like to get:
> 60
> 30
> 40
> 
> This is just an example, I cannot control the content of tK.
> Know what I mean?
> 
> Any hints very welcome, thank you!
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> http://www.major-k.de
> kl...@major-k.de
> 
> 
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Re: Developing first on android

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I am not too worried about layout. I make extensive setlayout scripts to adjust 
to all screen sizes.

But it seems like Android is the pickiest platform for other reasons as well, 
so why not start there first? After I get Augmented Earth to work fully on 
Android, I think I am going to make future improvements starting on Android 
first.

I got a lot of good tips from her presentation - so thank you Jacqueline:)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 17, 2017, at 9:31 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> There might be another way to skin this cat.  I liked what Pomegranate said,
> which would also be a way to make apps even more levure/git-friendly, and
> would, I think, solve some of the Android layout issues that she was
> discussing - every object is created by a script, instead of using the LC
> IDE to do it.  I've been thinking of developing a deconstructor to use with
> Levure.  The idea is that you would lay out the objects, but then the
> deconstructor would pull all the properties of each object, put them in a
> YML, JSON, or other similar file, and then they would be built in the app
> by  script, when needed.  That may give you additional flexibility when
> doing Android or ios because you could build your own geometry manager for
> mobile.
> The other thing that I've been thinking about was doing the layouts in a
> tool like Sketch (which would also mean that I could use some of the
> interface design service companies like uichest and pixelbuddha more
> easily).  That might also make the Android interface simpler to build and
> manipulate, but I haven't played with the idea enough to really
> understand it, yet.
> 
> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 7:24 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I really appreciate something Jacqueline said in her presentation. If we
>> start with Android deployment first, we can be pretty sure it will work on
>> iOS.
>> 
>> How do you guys feel about this?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
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Developing first on android

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I really appreciate something Jacqueline said in her presentation. If we start 
with Android deployment first, we can be pretty sure it will work on iOS.

How do you guys feel about this?

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Couple of questions about the browser widget

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Maybe Try this:



body {
overflow: hidden;
}



Also, the internal width or height of content in the browser is not necessarily 
the same as the width as measured by LC.

Things like the screen pixel scale can have an effect.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 16, 2017, at 4:33 PM, Mike Bonner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> hmm.  If the width of the page fits without need of a horizontal scrollbar,
> it should disappear, so maybe your code should check to see if its false
> first, then add the 23 pixels or not, depending. (I also can't test to see
> if its 23 on every platform at the moment)
> 
> I'm wondering if you're just not allowed to set a bar to false when the
> content is too wide or high and vice versa.
> 
> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Perfect! Interesting about the hScrollbar setting – I seem to be unable to
>> deselect that (or vScrollbar) in the property editor – or change them via
>> script (both are stuck on true).
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Terry...
>> 
>> On 16/08/2017 11:49 pm, "use-livecode on behalf of Mike Bonner via
>> use-livecode" > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>Ty HH and jonathan, its working now for me.
>> 
>>Terry:
>>I have this in my temporary file..
>>
>>Hi!
>>
>>window.onload = function(e) {
>>liveCode.lcHeight(document.body.scrollHeight);
>>}
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>It loads my picture fine, and (now that i have capitalization right..
>> DOH)
>>it sends a livecode message called lcHeight which is in the
>>javascripthandlers for the widget it loads into.
>> 
>>For the handler in LC I have this..
>> 
>>command lcHeight pHeight
>> set the height of widget 1 to pHeight + 23 -- +23 because I have
>> the
>>horizontal scrollbar showing
>> set the topleft of widget 1 to the topleft of this card
>>end lcHeight
>> 
>>On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 6:42 AM, Terry Judd via use-livecode <
>>use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks hh that's really helpful stuff. Thanks also to Jonathan and
>> Mike.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Terry...
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On 16 Aug 2017, at 9:00 pm, hh via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 
 Additional to Jonathan's instructions.
 
 Basic:
 http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29589
 
 Medium: Get MouseEvents from browser widget
 http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=154496#p154496
 
 and others there (7 Browser Widget usage examples) ...
 
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>>> 
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Re: Couple of questions about the browser widget

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

If you post the line that sends a message from JS to LC, we should be able to 
tell you what is wrong.

The code looks like this:
JS

liveCode.myHandler('JSMessage','test');


LC

On myHandler pMessage, pData
If pMessage = "JSMessage" then
Answer pData
End if
End myHandler

This will produce an LC answer dialog that says "test"

The keys to making this work:

1. the JS object is "liveCode" not "LiveCode" or "livecode" - JS is case 
sensitive.

2. The method, in this case "myHandler", becomes the LC handler, so make sure 
the LC handler is in the message path for the browser widget.

3. Make sure the JS script is firing - you can put in a line like 
"alert('hello');" to make sure JS is getting to that point in the script. Alert 
is like answer in LC.

4. Make sure your JS command lines end with a semicolon, but the structure 
lines do not, like this:

function LCTest() {
liveCode.myHandler('JSMessage','test');
}

Also, you can find example stacks that demonstrate this stuff - the JS to LC 
stack on LiveCode Share shows how to get messages with data into and back out 
of the browser widget. For advanced image techniques, Hermann has posted many 
excellent stacks.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 15, 2017, at 10:10 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mike – yeah thanks, the temp file approach for setting the browser widget 
> and getting an image to display works well so maybe easiest to go that way. 
> I’m still steeling myself for a foray into javascript so haven’t tried 
> anything on that front yet. I’ve got some Dropbox library related stuff to 
> distract me first though.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Terry...
> 
> On 16/08/2017 10:53 am, "use-livecode on behalf of Mike Bonner via 
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>I haven't managed yet. (can't get it to fire, but hey.. did I mention i'm
>no good at javascript?)
> 
>Also I noticed, setting the htmltext of the widget seems to run through a
>urlencode. (I had a sample page in a field and was setting the htmltext to
>it, but it got totally munged.. So I've been creating a temp file and
>setting the url which works..)
> 
>To show an image you can use something like this..
> 
>
> 
>(windows of course) Getting the javascripthandlers to work might take the
>input of another. I can't seem to make it go. (Note also, I looked in the
>dictionary for the browser widget and used the example code there for the
>"set the javascripthandlers..' part.. but the example needs to be fixed.
>You need to specify the widget.
>set the javascripthandlers of widget "mywidge" to "whatever*
> 
> 
> 
>On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 6:34 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode <
>use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for your help Mike – I’m no good at Javascript either ;) but
>> thankfully there is plenty of stuff out there on the web written by people
>> that are. I’ll give it a go and see if I can make it work.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Terry...
>> 
>> On 16/08/2017 10:23 am, "use-livecode on behalf of Mike Bonner via
>> use-livecode" > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>For the second question, if your htmltext contains a javascript
>> function
>>that returns document.body.scrollHeight you should be able to get the
>>height that way.I'm not any good at javascript, but how it would
>>probably work would be to have something like this..
>> 
>>window.onload = function(e){
>> livecode.myHeight('lcHeight",document.body.scrollHeight)
>> }
>> 
>>Then have an lcHeight handler defined in your stack to receive the
>> message.
>> 
>>command lcHeight pHeight
>>   -- do something with pHeight
>>end lcheight
>> 
>>Then of course you have to declare the handler..
>> 
>>set the javascripthandlers to "lcHeight"
>> 
>>I haven't actually done this, but think the idea is close enough to
>> get you
>>there.
>> 
>>On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode <
>>use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I’m thinking about replacing a field object that contains text,
>> inline
>>> images and simple tables with the browser widget but there are a
>> couple of
>>> issues I’d need to work through first and would welcome any
>> suggestions or
>>> ideas.
>>> 
>>> The first one concerns displaying local images – either stored
>>> (permanently or temporarily) within the stack itself or in the local
>>> documents/whatever folder. I’d like to set the htmlText of the
>> browser
>>> rather than a url. If that’s the case, how do I refer to the image
>> in order
>>> for it to be displayed?
>>> 
>>> The second one is whether it is possible to get the
>> ‘formattedHeight’ of
>>> the browser content. I’d ideally like to combine the browser with a
>> couple
>>> of other grouped controls so that I can scroll them as a single
>> object. Is
>>> that doable?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Terry...
>>> ___

Re: lockscreen?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

If you use lock screen to have 1 screen update rather than hundreds or 
thousands of screen updates, it will be vastly faster.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 15, 2017, at 7:26 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> So . . . owing to some oddities of my Devawriter Pro I have set up a new
> interface that automatically converts encoded documents from it original
> to another format; but that is implemented as an automation of one of
> the manual interfaces; so a series (hundreds, thousands) of mouseUp
> signals are despatched to images that function as buttons.
> 
> This makes for an extremely pretty user feedback situation, but also
> means that things tend to be s . . . l . . . o . . . w . . .
> 
> If I lock the screen (so these automations don't show up) will that
> speed things up?
> 
> Richmond.
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Re: Weird thing I noticed with a graphics speed test

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

So, this is one of those moments where LiveCode is too good for my needs!

You guys have done some optimizing to make LC handle graphics on Android, I
think. My slow android device is almost as fast as my iPhone in this
particular speed test. I know it does not have as much graphics processing
power overall, so there must be some trick in the system to make it appear
to work as fast.

Which is great, but makes it hard to test.

Since my problem has to do with the speed with which Web GL is processed in
the web view, I think I am going to have to make a speed test based on web
gl that runs in the browser widget. I was hoping to avoid that.

Does anyone have any other ideas on how we can accurately test graphics
processing power without using a browser widget?

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 6:26 AM,  wrote:

> This explains - thanks! So I need to compare performance between the
> android and iOS devices to get a valid comparison.
>
> The group has 20 small images. I will turn them into large images to
> increase the demand on pixel processing.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 11, 2017, at 5:37 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2017-08-10 03:38, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
> >> Actually, I had forgotten to set the layermode of the group.
> >> Now the number of passes on my Mac is 47 and on the android it is 31.
> >> This still seems rather close. I expected the slow android device to
> >> be like a quarter as fast.
> >
> > How many device pixels are there in your group when on your Mac compared
> to on your slow android device?
> >
> > On Android and iOS, the engine uses OpenGLES to blit tiles to the screen
> meaning that specific operation comes at virtually no cost.
> >
> > On Desktop it doesn't use OpenGL, so blitting is in software. On Mac,
> there are two options CoreGraphics or software - I think the former tends
> to be a bit quicker than the latter (particularly for larger numbers of
> pixels).
> >
> > Generally (for simple cases, where no mutation beyond movement is
> happening in your display) you should find that acceleratedRendering will
> make something on iOS/Android about the same speed as you would get on
> Desktop without acceleratedRendering turned on.
> >
> > Warmest Regards,
> >
> > Mark.
> >
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>> On Aug 9, 2017, at 9:27 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> I created a group with ten buttons. I have a function that scrolls
> this group as many times as it can in a second.
> >>> With acceleratedrendering on, it can scroll 30 times on my Mac. My
> very slow android device also scrolls it 30 times.
> >>> With accelerated rendering off, it can scroll the group 87 times on
> the Mac and 35 times on the android.
> >>> Why would the scrolling be faster with accelerated rendering off?
> >>> Why do both devices have the same speed with accelerated rendering on?
> >>> I thought accelerated rendering used the graphics card? Shouldn't this
> graphically slow android be slower?
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > --
> > Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> >
> > ___
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> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



-- 
Do all things with love
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Re: Android App Woes

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

For the moment, is it sufficient to move turning on accelerated rendering to 
the end of the startup routine?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 14, 2017, at 12:54 AM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Jacque,
> 
> I don’t think I can make a bug report yet.  I don’t have it isolated outside 
> my project; which LC will surely tell me to do!   I’ll work on trying to 
> isolate the issue.
> 
> What I know is this:
> (1) My project runs perfectly with acceleratedRendering enabled – except when 
> the app is suspended, it crashes when brought to the foreground again.
> (2) I put a button in my app with one line, it simply disables 
> acceleratedRendering.  When I tap this button, the app no longer crashes when 
> brought to the foreground after being suspended.
> 
> I am not really sure where to go to try to isolate the issue.   There is 
> something definitely up with acceleratedRendering on Android.  On iOS, I 
> enable acceleratedRendering at the beginning of my startup routine.  Works 
> great.  On Android, this makes the app hang.  But, if I move the enabling of 
> acceleratedRendering to the end of the startup routine, it works fine.  I had 
> a related issue with setting the textFont of the mainStack at startup (we’re 
> using an external font).  When I set the textFont of the stack after setting 
> the acceleratedRendering, the app crashed.  But, setting the textFont of the 
> stack before setting the acceleratedRendering was fine.
> 
> This is kind of a high-profile client and I’ve got about 1 week to get this 
> resolved before I have to deliver the final app.  This must get resolved this 
> week!
> 
> -Dan
> 
> 
> 
>> Please enter a bug report about this, it's a different issue than the one I 
>> wrote up.
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman
> 
> 
> On August 13, 2017 1:07:12 PM Dan Friedman via use-livecode
>  lists.runrev.com> 
> wrote:
> 
>> I took Ralph’s advice and made a 0 line stack to try to recreate the issue.
>> To my astonishment, the app didn’t have the same problem!   So, I went
>> back to my project and started to trace what I have in my app that might be
>> causing the problem.   After a while, I discovered that if I do not enable
>> acceleratedRendering, the app does not bail on suspend and stays in memory.
>> Problem solved!   Except that I can’t leave acceleratedRendering off.  All
>> the scrollers stutter horribly!
>> 
>> I went back the test app and enabled acceleratedRendering.  But, it doesn’t
>> have the same problem.  I am most puzzled.
>> 
>> Help!
>> 
>> -Dan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> I have built my android app with LC 8.1.5.   It runs fine on the device.
>>> You then hit the home button to return to the OS.  Tap the app icon
>>> again and you get “Unfortunatly, [appName] has stopped.”.  Tap the icon
>>> again and
>>> it does a complete reboot of the app.   Apps made in LC 7 did not have this
>>> issue, they stayed running in the background – like an app should.   Is
>>> there a trick to getting an Android app from LC 8.1.5 to behave like it 
>>> should?
>>> 
>>> I can’t deliver an app to my client that (a) doesn’t stay alive in the
>>> background, and (b) crashes every other launch.
>>> 
>>> Anyone have any insight on this??
>>> 
>>> -Dan
> 
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Re: Livecode Mobile App in Background

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Here are the instructions Ralph made. I think you can now load up your own 
custom plist if you want to, but these steps work. 

Big thanks to Ralph for this:)

1) Go to the Applications folder
2) Right click on the LC app you are using and select "Show Package
Contents"
3) Navigate to the "Tools/Runtime/iOS" folder
4) Right click on all the device/simulator folders one at a time and select
"Get Info"
5) At the bottom click on the "Read only" to the right of your account name
and select "Read & Write"
6) Repeat 5 for all device/simulator folders
7) In each of the device/simulator folders edit the setting.plist file.
8) To edit... right click the setting.plist file and select "Open With" and
then "Other..." and select "TextEdit.app".
9) You will get a warning that the file is locked. Choose the Unlock option.

10) Either change UIApplicationExitsOnSuspend key value to "False" or like I
do delete the key all together(2 lines)
11) repeat 8-10 for setting.plist in each of the device/simulator folders.
12) Fire up LC and make an iOS app.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:24 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> The plist can be edited for this. If you search plist on this list, you will 
> find instructions.
> 
> Augmented Earth hibernates rather than being shut down.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:10 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> There’s been a lot of talk about this, but does any one have a working 
>> method for getting the app to not exit when it’s suspended?   Need a 
>> solution for both iOS and Android.  If it could stay alive for like 10 
>> munites, that’s all I need.  My client doesn’t want the app to have to 
>> completely reload (app boot is a little lenghty) just to bring up a 
>> calculator to add a few numbers.   They want it to work like most apps do.
>> 
>> Any solution would be a lifesaver!!
>> 
>> -Dan
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Re: Livecode Mobile App in Background

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

The plist can be edited for this. If you search plist on this list, you will 
find instructions.

Augmented Earth hibernates rather than being shut down.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:10 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> There’s been a lot of talk about this, but does any one have a working method 
> for getting the app to not exit when it’s suspended?   Need a solution for 
> both iOS and Android.  If it could stay alive for like 10 munites, that’s all 
> I need.  My client doesn’t want the app to have to completely reload (app 
> boot is a little lenghty) just to bring up a calculator to add a few numbers. 
>   They want it to work like most apps do.
> 
> Any solution would be a lifesaver!!
> 
> -Dan
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Re: [OT] Draconian computer company policies, was: Mobile LC Apps Downloading Stacks After installation

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

If we buy an iPad, we are buying both the device and the services that go with 
it. To use a service, like iTunes, we are agreeing to operate by their rules.

It seems acceptable for Apple to impose restrictions on use of their device and 
their services simply because people have the choice to agree to those terms or 
not. We are not forced to buy it.

Basically, I don't complain about a closed ecosystem since I elected to partake 
of that system, especially since we have alternatives.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 11, 2017, at 12:54 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Well, I always drive below the speed limit and I always wear a seatbelt (and 
> have always done so whether or not it was
> a legal requirement in the country I happened to be living in at the time).
> 
> This is not quite the same as keeping goats and hens in the back of your car 
> (which was not illegal last time I looked).
> 
> While keeping goats and hens in the car may prove extremely smelly it cannot 
> be said to be unsafe
> (unless one wants to drive the car with a nanny goat sitting on one's lap).
> 
> Now putting a LiveCode standalone onto an iPad that does thing that Apple 
> doesn't like isn't always the same thing as putting things onto an iPad that 
> is unsafe.
> 
> I'm absolutely sure that an awful lot of the creative potential of tablets is 
> being lost because of unnecessary restrictions.
> 
>> On 8/11/17 6:44 pm, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>>> On 2017-08-11 16:44, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote:
>>> I cannot quite see how people are prepared to go on buying Apple iPads when
>>> there are such draconian restrictions as to what one can run on them.
>>> 
>>> While the Android "thing" may not be much better, at last one can
>>> side-load almost anything one wants.
>> 
>> One can on iOS too - if you want to Jailbreak your device. Or, indeed, if 
>> you have a Apple dev account (which I believe are now free until you want to 
>> submit an app - someone please correct me if I'm wrong) you can put on it 
>> whatever you like.
>> 
>>> There is a whole world of difference between a set of actions one
>>> cannot do because of the
>>> physical limitations of a thing and a set of actions one is not
>>> allowed to do because a bunch of people
>>> in California want to carry on mucking you around even after they ahve
>>> successfully manipulated you into buying their
>>> over-priced product.
>> 
>> That might be true - but as much as these restrictions *might* be because 
>> the vendors 'want complete control of their walled garden to scalp us for 
>> cash', I honestly do think it is much more about ensuring these devices are 
>> *safe* for people to use in regards to all the very critical information we 
>> tend to hold on our devices.
> 
> I don't see that, so much as the possibility that Apple and Google are 
> scalping developers for cash;
> and even that does not make much sense as they could still "scalp" if the 
> restrictions were not so tight.
> 
> I don't think the developers of these machines or their operating systems are 
> worried that much about
> the end-users' safety; surely they are more interested in keeping their 
> shareholders happy.
> 
>> 
>> It is important to remember that the majority of people who use mobile 
>> phones, tablets and computers use them like they do their car or washing 
>> machine. They have little interest in how the thing works, just that it does 
>> what they need to - does it well and does it safely.
> 
> Yes, I am sure you are right. But, by imposing these restrictions they do not 
> give the end-user a choice; and a world in which choice seems to be 
> increasingly restricted is not good.
> 
> It would seem that the use of over-regulation and over-restriction is a way 
> of dodging the very heavy moral responsibility of teaching people to
> make sensible decisions.
>> 
>> Sure some people complain about seat-belts and speed limits but the reality 
>> is that those *legally enforceable requirements* make the roads a great deal 
>> safer for everyone.
>> 
>> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Not half as warm as over here in Bulgaria; hit 43 Centigrade today!
>> 
>> Mark.
>> 
> 
> Best, Richmond.
> 
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Re: [OT] Draconian computer company policies, was: Mobile LC Apps Downloading Stacks After installation

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

It seems that this is another reason to use LC's HTML5 deployment.

Since external javascript is permitted, one could do the "sideloading" by 
accessing a website created with LC.

It would just be an LC HTML5 app displayed inside of a browser widget.

Of course, it would be easy to abuse this by adding in function calls to LC on 
the mobile device, so we would need to be careful.

In Augmented Earth, reports can have ads added to them. The report, with the 
ad, is displayed through a browser widget. This will allow advertisers to place 
high-quality ads, which they will love.

However, nothing in the app would give them access to extra system calls. It is 
still sandboxed, but only by choice.

So, that great power thing still applies - and thanks to the great Stan Lee for 
that meme!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 11, 2017, at 12:20 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> In this case, the restrictions are to prevent malware from entering the app 
> stores, which hardly sounds Draconian to me. Even so, there have been a 
> handful of apps that made it through the vetting process and affected dozens 
> or hundreds of users. It's rare but it has happened.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On August 11, 2017 9:46:37 AM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I cannot quite see how people are prepared to go on buying Apple iPads when
>> there are such draconian restrictions as to what one can run on them.
>> 
>> While the Android "thing" may not be much better, at last one can
>> side-load almost anything one wants.
>> 
>> But, Like Richard Stallman, I suffer from the "horrible" belief that
>> once one has bought something
>> it belongs to you and you should not be told what you can and cannot do
>> with it.
>> 
>> OK, OK, I'm back off to the kitchen to carry on slicing vegetables with
>> a roll of toliet paper.
>> 
>> There is a whole world of difference between a set of actions one cannot
>> do because of the
>> physical limitations of a thing and a set of actions one is not allowed
>> to do because a bunch of people
>> in California want to carry on mucking you around even after they ahve
>> successfully manipulated you into buying their
>> over-priced product.
>> 
>> Currently trying to get my ASUS Intel Tablet  which runs Android to do a
>> few things I want it to, but Google [wouldn't Douglas Adams
>> have a fit of the dry boak?] do want me to do with it.
>> 
>> Richmond.
>> 
>>> On 8/11/17 5:35 pm, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>> If we could have our own LC App Store, where people could play an app with 
>>> a player app on different platforms, it would be quite excellent.
>>> 
>>> At the very least, I think Apple would object.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 10:09 AM, Roger Eller via use-livecode 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Several companies HAVE their own app stores.  Samsung is one that comes to
>>>> mind.  http://joyofandroid.com/android-app-store-alternatives/
>>>> 
>>>> ~Roger
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 10:00 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> If Apple and Google allowed player apps that play external code, companies
>>>>> could essentially set up their own app stores, bypassing google play and
>>>>> iTunes.
>>>>> I cannot imagine either company would appreciate that.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:52 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Mark,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks for weighing in. I would like to read into those licenses that I
>>>>>> could update my core LCS, but I know in my soul that if I do that it's
>>>>> just
>>>>>> a shoe waiting to drop that could affect not only my license but the
>>>>> entire
>>>>>> LC community. I also feel that when I create an extra button(with stub
>>>>> code)
>>>>>> because a "data" update offers more options that I am staying within the
>>>>>> guidelines and the spirit of the App/Play store rule

Re: Mobile LC Apps Downloading Stacks After installation

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

If we could have our own LC App Store, where people could play an app with a 
player app on different platforms, it would be quite excellent.

At the very least, I think Apple would object.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 11, 2017, at 10:09 AM, Roger Eller via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Several companies HAVE their own app stores.  Samsung is one that comes to
> mind.  http://joyofandroid.com/android-app-store-alternatives/
> 
> ~Roger
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 10:00 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> If Apple and Google allowed player apps that play external code, companies
>> could essentially set up their own app stores, bypassing google play and
>> iTunes.
>> I cannot imagine either company would appreciate that.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:52 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mark,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for weighing in. I would like to read into those licenses that I
>>> could update my core LCS, but I know in my soul that if I do that it's
>> just
>>> a shoe waiting to drop that could affect not only my license but the
>> entire
>>> LC community. I also feel that when I create an extra button(with stub
>> code)
>>> because a "data" update offers more options that I am staying within the
>>> guidelines and the spirit of the App/Play store rules. I see this as
>> simple
>>> decision. I call it the "Johnny, did you eat a cookie?" scenario. Johnny
>>> says "no" because he did not eat "A" cookie but ate 3 cookies. I am not
>> a 2
>>> year old and know what these rules were intended to prevent.
>>> 
>>> By the way, I was once rejected because my data update "answer" dialog
>> was
>>> worded as "An app update is available". I explained that it was a data
>>> update and not code and changed the verbiage of the dialog. I then passed
>>> the review. Moral: The review team can look VERY close at any app during
>>> review.
>>> 
>>> As it was said in Goodfellows... At least, that's how I feel.
>>> 
>>> Ralph DiMola
>>> IT Director
>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On
>> Behalf
>>> Of Mark Waddingham via use-livecode
>>> Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 7:24 AM
>>> To: How to use LiveCode
>>> Cc: Mark Waddingham
>>> Subject: Re: Mobile LC Apps Downloading Stacks After installation
>>> 
>>>> On 2017-08-11 12:20, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> I know the reviewers at app stores are not always careful, but
>>>> something like an LC player would surely get their notice.
>>> 
>>> Review, from my understanding, is heavily automated (it has to be - if
>> you
>>> think of the scale of the App Stores these days). However, there is
>> always a
>>> means to get in contact with a human about specific issues (which can
>> take a
>>> while to get escalated with someone who can actually do something - but
>> at
>>> least it is possible).
>>> 
>>>> They do allow us to import JS, but JS is way more sandboxed than LC.
>>> 
>>> Yes - this is true - however, as I noticed this morning Apple no longer
>> have
>>> their advisory about allowing arbitrary JS to be downloaded and run
>> within a
>>> WebView. This is simply because you can could build a host app which
>> gives
>>> access to every single OS API on iOS and make all of them callable from
>> JS
>>> (even if the JS bundled with the app does not use any of it).
>>> 
>>> So, the point is the language is not the point - what the code running in
>>> the language does is important.
>>> 
>>> Like Google, Apple are wanting to know precisely what OS APIs your app is
>>> calling at the point of review - so they have some idea of the surface
>> area
>>> of attack for any malicious intent. How much analysis they currently do,
>>> no-one really knows - however the guidelines means that (in principal)
>> they
>>> have reasons to pull any apps very quickly if they find that they are
>> doing
>>> something which is 'not allowed'.
>>> 
>>> Warmest 

Re: Mobile LC Apps Downloading Stacks After installation

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

If Apple and Google allowed player apps that play external code, companies 
could essentially set up their own app stores, bypassing google play and iTunes.
I cannot imagine either company would appreciate that.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:52 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Mark,
> 
> Thanks for weighing in. I would like to read into those licenses that I
> could update my core LCS, but I know in my soul that if I do that it's just
> a shoe waiting to drop that could affect not only my license but the entire
> LC community. I also feel that when I create an extra button(with stub code)
> because a "data" update offers more options that I am staying within the
> guidelines and the spirit of the App/Play store rules. I see this as simple
> decision. I call it the "Johnny, did you eat a cookie?" scenario. Johnny
> says "no" because he did not eat "A" cookie but ate 3 cookies. I am not a 2
> year old and know what these rules were intended to prevent.
> 
> By the way, I was once rejected because my data update "answer" dialog was
> worded as "An app update is available". I explained that it was a data
> update and not code and changed the verbiage of the dialog. I then passed
> the review. Moral: The review team can look VERY close at any app during
> review.
> 
> As it was said in Goodfellows... At least, that's how I feel.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
> Of Mark Waddingham via use-livecode
> Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 7:24 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Mark Waddingham
> Subject: Re: Mobile LC Apps Downloading Stacks After installation
> 
>> On 2017-08-11 12:20, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>> I know the reviewers at app stores are not always careful, but 
>> something like an LC player would surely get their notice.
> 
> Review, from my understanding, is heavily automated (it has to be - if you
> think of the scale of the App Stores these days). However, there is always a
> means to get in contact with a human about specific issues (which can take a
> while to get escalated with someone who can actually do something - but at
> least it is possible).
> 
>> They do allow us to import JS, but JS is way more sandboxed than LC.
> 
> Yes - this is true - however, as I noticed this morning Apple no longer have
> their advisory about allowing arbitrary JS to be downloaded and run within a
> WebView. This is simply because you can could build a host app which gives
> access to every single OS API on iOS and make all of them callable from JS
> (even if the JS bundled with the app does not use any of it).
> 
> So, the point is the language is not the point - what the code running in
> the language does is important.
> 
> Like Google, Apple are wanting to know precisely what OS APIs your app is
> calling at the point of review - so they have some idea of the surface area
> of attack for any malicious intent. How much analysis they currently do,
> no-one really knows - however the guidelines means that (in principal) they
> have reasons to pull any apps very quickly if they find that they are doing
> something which is 'not allowed'.
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
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Re: Weird thing I noticed with a graphics speed test

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

This explains - thanks! So I need to compare performance between the android 
and iOS devices to get a valid comparison.

The group has 20 small images. I will turn them into large images to increase 
the demand on pixel processing.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 11, 2017, at 5:37 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 2017-08-10 03:38, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>> Actually, I had forgotten to set the layermode of the group.
>> Now the number of passes on my Mac is 47 and on the android it is 31.
>> This still seems rather close. I expected the slow android device to
>> be like a quarter as fast.
> 
> How many device pixels are there in your group when on your Mac compared to 
> on your slow android device?
> 
> On Android and iOS, the engine uses OpenGLES to blit tiles to the screen 
> meaning that specific operation comes at virtually no cost.
> 
> On Desktop it doesn't use OpenGL, so blitting is in software. On Mac, there 
> are two options CoreGraphics or software - I think the former tends to be a 
> bit quicker than the latter (particularly for larger numbers of pixels).
> 
> Generally (for simple cases, where no mutation beyond movement is happening 
> in your display) you should find that acceleratedRendering will make 
> something on iOS/Android about the same speed as you would get on Desktop 
> without acceleratedRendering turned on.
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Aug 9, 2017, at 9:27 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I created a group with ten buttons. I have a function that scrolls this 
>>> group as many times as it can in a second.
>>> With acceleratedrendering on, it can scroll 30 times on my Mac. My very 
>>> slow android device also scrolls it 30 times.
>>> With accelerated rendering off, it can scroll the group 87 times on the Mac 
>>> and 35 times on the android.
>>> Why would the scrolling be faster with accelerated rendering off?
>>> Why do both devices have the same speed with accelerated rendering on?
>>> I thought accelerated rendering used the graphics card? Shouldn't this 
>>> graphically slow android be slower?
>>> Sent from my iPhone
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>> subscription preferences:
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> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
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Re: Mobile LC Apps Downloading Stacks After installation

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thank you, Mark.

This was a great explanation.

I know the reviewers at app stores are not always careful, but something like 
an LC player would surely get their notice. 

They do allow us to import JS, but JS is way more sandboxed than LC.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 11, 2017, at 3:55 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Okay so the thread from which this post came has some glaringly large and 
> obvious incorrect statements in it so I think it wise I correct them.
> 
> First of all being able to submit apps to the App Stores which exist today is 
> critically important to our ecosystem - those App Stores come with rules 
> about what is allowed and what is not - the players involved here have 
> demonstrated that they can and will change those rules without consultation 
> and also have budgets larger than you can imagine so, no, you will not win a 
> fight with them so I strongly suggest not trying in the first place. (Also, 
> remember these are *their* gardens - they are not public - they are free to 
> do what they want and see fit!).
> 
> From my perspective, there are numerous things we could do technically to the 
> engine in order to completely prevent any Apps in our ecosystem violating the 
> critical rules which seem to cause a lot of confusion. I'd rather not do this 
> as it would be a very large blunt instrument based on a very strict 
> interpretation of said rules which would mean a lot of you would have to 
> rewrite a fair bit of code (e.g. We completely remove the ability to compile 
> code at runtime if the engine is running in the context of one of those 
> stores - no 'do' or variants, no ability to create objects with any code 
> attached etc).
> 
> So, first question - is script 'executable code'? Yes. Script is code (they 
> are essentially synonyms in our 'world'); Script is executable - it is 
> executable by the LiveCode engine. Let's be clear about this - one can 
> 'hypothesise' about the boundary between code and data but it is pointless. 
> Data is code if it can be executed and *is* executed - i.e. cause a physical 
> processor to execute instructions which is parameterized by that data. (e.g. 
> 'Machine code' is data until it is put into an executable page and called - 
> so even as data it is code, if it is executed at some point).
> 
> Second question - do stackfiles contain executable code? Only if you put data 
> in them which could be considered to be executable - script is obviously 
> covered here. Whether that script be set as the script properties of buttons, 
> or as strings which you then set as a script on an existing object, or 
> execute with 'do'. The means by which a script is executed, or could be 
> executed, is immaterial. If your app takes data from a stackfile and causes 
> the engine to execute steps parameterized by that data, then your stackfile 
> contains executable code.
> 
> Third question - what are the rules?
> 
> The Apple App Store(s) Review Guidelines are here:
> 
> https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/
> 
> The Google Play Guidelines are here:
> 
> https://play.google.com/about/developer-content-policy/#!?modal_active=none
> 
> The critical parts related to 'executable code' for Apple's App Stores is:
> 
>  2.5.2 Apps should be self-contained in their bundles, and may not read or 
> write
>data outside the designated container area, nor may they download, 
> install,
>or execute code, including other apps. Apps designed to teach, 
> develop, or
>test executable code may, in limited circumstances, download code 
> provided
>that such code is not used for other purposes. Such apps must make the
>source code provided by the Application completely viewable and 
> editable
>by the user.
> 
> The critical parts related to 'executable code' for Google's Play Store is:
> 
>  Malicious Behavior
>  We don’t allow apps that steal data, secretly monitor or harm users, or are
>  otherwise malicious.
> 
>  An app distributed via Google Play may not modify, replace, or update itself
>  using any method other than Google Play’s update mechanism. Likewise, an app
>  may not download executable code (e.g. dex, JAR, .so files) from a source 
> other
>  than Google Play. This restriction does not apply to code that runs in a 
> virtual
>  machine and has limited access to Android APIs (such as JavaScript in a 
> webview
>  or browser).
> 
>  The following are explicitly prohibited:
>Viruses, trojan horses, malware, spyware or any other malicious software.
>Apps that link to or facilitate the distribution or installation of 
> malicious
>software.
>Apps or SDKs that download executable code, such as dex files or native 
> code,
>from a source other than Google Play.
>Apps that introduce or exploit security vulnerabilities.
>Apps that steal a user’s authentication information (such as usernames or
>passwords) or that mimic other apps or web

Re: App Rejected: IPv6 network?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

If this were allowed, LC could create a player app for iPhone and android and 
allow people to exchange stacks outside of the app stores.

It could be quite big.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 10, 2017, at 3:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 8/10/17 2:27 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>> jonathandlynch wrote:
>> > LC scripts are not executable code?
>> They are to the LiveCode engine, but not to the OS.
>> LiveCode Script has no access to the OS, and can't touch anything outside of 
>> the LiveCode engine.
>> So from the OS perspective, scripts are just data, like glorified 
>> spreadsheet formulas.  All sandboxing and other API evaluation is relevant 
>> to the LC Engine.
> 
> Well then, that opens up a whole realm of possibilities. I was unaware.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
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