Re: App Rejected: IPv6 network?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

LC scripts are not executable code?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 10, 2017, at 3:10 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I didn't know that downloading stacks onto an app was ever a problem.  It's
> not downloading a file of any sort that has been a no-no, it's loading
> executable code, which LC scripts are not, and LC stacks are not.
> 
> On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 2:51 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via
> use-livecode  wrote:
> 
>> Dan:
>> 
>> this is "big news" -- I thought the downloading of LC binary stacks was
>> definitely forbidden fruit inside Apple's Walled Garden
>> 
>> Dan wrote:
>> 
>> "The app, on launch, downloads a file (a compressed stack) from my
>> server.  I
>> know for fact that went without error.  That freshly downloaded stack then
>> downloads another compressed stack.  The error happened on this second
>> stack.
>> 
>> The app (with the development profile, of course) works perfectly on
>> numerous
>> iPads and iPhones (using several versions of iOS including 10.3.3) tested
>> on
>> several WI-Fi wireless networks at multiple locations.  It also preformed
>> perfectly using cellular data."
>> 
>> Was this app previously submitted, approved, and orking and this is a new
>> version? or is this first submission attempt?
>> 
>> Assuming you *do* solve the networking host connection issue, please keep
>> us posted as to whether Apple throws up red flags on downloading binary
>> stacks from a remote server or if they let it pass
>> 
>> BR
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Weird thing I noticed with a graphics speed test

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Actually, I had forgotten to set the layermode of the group.

Now the number of passes on my Mac is 47 and on the android it is 31.

This still seems rather close. I expected the slow android device to be like a 
quarter as fast.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 9, 2017, at 9:27 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> I created a group with ten buttons. I have a function that scrolls this group 
> as many times as it can in a second.
> 
> With acceleratedrendering on, it can scroll 30 times on my Mac. My very slow 
> android device also scrolls it 30 times.
> 
> With accelerated rendering off, it can scroll the group 87 times on the Mac 
> and 35 times on the android.
> 
> Why would the scrolling be faster with accelerated rendering off?
> 
> Why do both devices have the same speed with accelerated rendering on?
> 
> I thought accelerated rendering used the graphics card? Shouldn't this 
> graphically slow android be slower?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone

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Weird thing I noticed with a graphics speed test

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I created a group with ten buttons. I have a function that scrolls this group 
as many times as it can in a second.

With acceleratedrendering on, it can scroll 30 times on my Mac. My very slow 
android device also scrolls it 30 times.

With accelerated rendering off, it can scroll the group 87 times on the Mac and 
35 times on the android.

Why would the scrolling be faster with accelerated rendering off?

Why do both devices have the same speed with accelerated rendering on?

I thought accelerated rendering used the graphics card? Shouldn't this 
graphically slow android be slower?

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Android Browser Widget JS problem

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thanks Hermann,

I have that page, but the event object does not have touches in it, which 
apparently is some times an issue with android webviews.

It does have e.latitude and e.longitude, which tells me that the webglearth 
library is modifying the event object but is not keeping e.pageX and similar on 
this particular device, even though it works on iOS just fine.


I have something kind of working using e.latitude, but it is quirky because the 
map shifts underneath with these swipes, which changes the references for 
swiping.



Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 9, 2017, at 5:21 AM, hh via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Have you already seen the answer from here:
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9585487/cant-get-coordinates-of-touchevents-in-javascript-on-android-devices
>   ??
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Re: Android Browser Widget JS problem

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thanks Hermann,


Weirdly, it is not generating touch events, just mouse events.

Even so, mouse move should generate e.screenX.

Actually, clientX, screenX, and pageX are all in the available properties from 
the event object, but they do not have usable content.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 8, 2017, at 6:35 PM, hh via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Did you already read
> https://www.html5rocks.com/en/mobile/touch/
> to that?
> 
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Android Browser Widget JS problem

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

On any other platform, javascript has had no trouble detecting 
clientX,screenX,and pageX following touch events and mouse events. These are 
how JS detects where the user's finger is, on the screen.

On the browser widget in android (6.0.1) it is just returning undefined or 0.

Can anyone suggest ways to get finger positions on this platform?

Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Sorting out the sheep from the goats

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thank you for lifting my mood this morning :)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 8, 2017, at 10:38 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> When once walking in Wales I observed a Welshman having a vowel-movement 
> behind a bush . . .
> 
> The noises he was uttering during this procedure were 100% vowels.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
>> On 8/8/17 5:34 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>> If the Welsh are so averse to vowels, they ought to call themselves the Wlsh.
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 7, 2017, at 15:17 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Also a Welsh word, NOT an English one.
>>> 
>>> Richmond.
>> 
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Re: Sorting out the sheep from the goats

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Scrabble disagrees. 

Both words are in mainstream dictionaries as well. They are imported words. I 
think they are the only two words where W is a vowel.

Of course, Scrabble considers zloty, qadi, and qwerty to be words.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 7, 2017, at 6:17 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Also a Welsh word, NOT an English one.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
>> On 8/7/17 11:24 pm, Jerry Jensen via use-livecode wrote:
>> And the musical instrument the crwth.
>> 
>>> On Aug 7, 2017, at 1:08 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> And the obscure word "cwm" uses w as a vowel.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 7, 2017, at 3:28 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I think you have an error in your code samples.  Your vowel set should be
>>>> “aeiouandsometimesy"
>> 
>> 
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Re: Sorting out the sheep from the goats

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

And the obscure word "cwm" uses w as a vowel.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 7, 2017, at 3:28 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think you have an error in your code samples.  Your vowel set should be
> "aeiouandsometimesy"
> 
> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 1:56 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Tore and Mike.
>> 
>> Richmond.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 8/7/17 8:52 pm, Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote:
>>> 
>>> typo, first line should be
>>> repeat for each char tChar in tVar -- where tvar has your string
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Mike Bonner  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Repeat for each char tchar intVar
 if tChar is among the items of "a,e,i,o,u" then
 -- its a vowel
 else
-- its not a vowel.
 end if
 
 end repeat
 
 On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 
 Yes, here's "Mr Sanskrit" asking what is probably a very goofy question
> indeed:
> 
> I have a series of long strings of characters such as:
> 
> LarrygubAndCheesemakemyfeetstink
> 
> and I would like a happy little routine that could trot along each
> string
> and, for each character (and this is ONLY confined
> to the Latin alphabet, at the moment) tell me (or, more importantly,
> other scripts) whether it is a VOWEL or a CONSONANT.
> 
> Of course, having learnt from Mark Waddingham about the effective nature
> of G & T s, I may end up answering my own e-mail . . .
> 
> Thanks Mark, I knew you had more to tell me than "just" computer
> programming :-)
> 
> Richmond.
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> 
> 
> -- 
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>   and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Android device speed

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I am overthinking this.

A group that is visible but layered under another object would do it. 

1. Turn on accelerated rendering
2. Scroll the group programmatically from top to bottom as many times as 
possible in a quarter second.
3. Adjust the div size based on the number of times it can do the scroll.

I would just need to experiment to determine how the repeat rate relates  to 
app performance.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 3, 2017, at 5:07 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> It looks like we need to use a combination of requestAnimationFrame and 
> performance.now in JavaScript to test the GPU.
> 
> I would rather test the GPU in LC, but I don't know how to do that without 
> having a visible animation on the screen.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 3, 2017, at 9:05 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Roger,
>> 
>> In this case, the issue is more with the map presented in a browser widget, 
>> which is less about LC and more about the embedded chrome framework.
>> 
>> I think that my device is not really a high-end android machine, either.
>> 
>> It looks like max-texture-size might be a decent proxy for measuring GPU 
>> power.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 3, 2017, at 8:36 AM, Roger Eller via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I would be more inclined to not say in general "...that Android runs
>>> slower...", but rather "Android runs LiveCode apps slower."
>>> 
>>> There are plenty of Android apps in the Play store that handle large
>>> graphics VERY well on Android.  It may or may not be just how LiveCode
>>> rolls, as an improved experience can be achieved by handling images better
>>> in your code. Breaking them up into grid pieces, and only displaying the
>>> portion that is within the current view is one way.  You can also reduce
>>> the size of PNG files using specialized utilities like TinyPNG.
>>> 
>>> ~Roger
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 3:20 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Android devices come with a variety of different specifications. The high
>>>> end models will be more capable than low end ones. Depending on
>>>> manufacturer and model, the graphics card will vary in capability and
>>>> available RAM. Screen resolution also makes a difference. I'm using older
>>>> test devices because I figure if it works there it will work on most
>>>> others. But my Samsung S4 runs more slowly than my S5 and they were
>>>> released only a year apart. And my Nexus tablet, which is older than both
>>>> Samsung phones, runs as well or better than either of those, probably
>>>> because it has a lower screen resolution. I'm not sure there's a standard
>>>> you can rely on.
>>>> 
>>>> I guess in general you could say that Android runs slower, but it's
>>>> probably because there are so many low cost phones with subsequently less
>>>> processing power. When you get into the higher range phones they can be
>>>> quite acceptable. The same app that lagged on my Samsung ran fine on
>>>> someone else's Pixel.
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>>>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On August 2, 2017 6:14:06 PM Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I just put my app on a galaxy tab E as a test.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is painfully slow, but not just in the LC portion of the app. The map,
>>>>> delivered through a browser widget, is also slow.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So, I used the regular browser (chrome) at the webglearth website. That
>>>>> was slow too, although not as bad. I think the main difference was that 
>>>>> the
>>>>> map div at their website is small, so it takes less processing power.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I had thought I selected a midlevel Android device that can handle
>>>>> moderate amounts of computation.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In y'alls' experience, are android devices just slow? Do they have
>>>>> inferior graphics processors? If 

Re: Android device speed

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

It looks like we need to use a combination of requestAnimationFrame and 
performance.now in JavaScript to test the GPU.

I would rather test the GPU in LC, but I don't know how to do that without 
having a visible animation on the screen.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 3, 2017, at 9:05 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Thanks Roger,
> 
> In this case, the issue is more with the map presented in a browser widget, 
> which is less about LC and more about the embedded chrome framework.
> 
> I think that my device is not really a high-end android machine, either.
> 
> It looks like max-texture-size might be a decent proxy for measuring GPU 
> power.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 3, 2017, at 8:36 AM, Roger Eller via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I would be more inclined to not say in general "...that Android runs
>> slower...", but rather "Android runs LiveCode apps slower."
>> 
>> There are plenty of Android apps in the Play store that handle large
>> graphics VERY well on Android.  It may or may not be just how LiveCode
>> rolls, as an improved experience can be achieved by handling images better
>> in your code. Breaking them up into grid pieces, and only displaying the
>> portion that is within the current view is one way.  You can also reduce
>> the size of PNG files using specialized utilities like TinyPNG.
>> 
>> ~Roger
>> 
>> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 3:20 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Android devices come with a variety of different specifications. The high
>>> end models will be more capable than low end ones. Depending on
>>> manufacturer and model, the graphics card will vary in capability and
>>> available RAM. Screen resolution also makes a difference. I'm using older
>>> test devices because I figure if it works there it will work on most
>>> others. But my Samsung S4 runs more slowly than my S5 and they were
>>> released only a year apart. And my Nexus tablet, which is older than both
>>> Samsung phones, runs as well or better than either of those, probably
>>> because it has a lower screen resolution. I'm not sure there's a standard
>>> you can rely on.
>>> 
>>> I guess in general you could say that Android runs slower, but it's
>>> probably because there are so many low cost phones with subsequently less
>>> processing power. When you get into the higher range phones they can be
>>> quite acceptable. The same app that lagged on my Samsung ran fine on
>>> someone else's Pixel.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On August 2, 2017 6:14:06 PM Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> I just put my app on a galaxy tab E as a test.
>>>> 
>>>> It is painfully slow, but not just in the LC portion of the app. The map,
>>>> delivered through a browser widget, is also slow.
>>>> 
>>>> So, I used the regular browser (chrome) at the webglearth website. That
>>>> was slow too, although not as bad. I think the main difference was that the
>>>> map div at their website is small, so it takes less processing power.
>>>> 
>>>> I had thought I selected a midlevel Android device that can handle
>>>> moderate amounts of computation.
>>>> 
>>>> In y'alls' experience, are android devices just slow? Do they have
>>>> inferior graphics processors? If you make computationally heavy apps for
>>>> Android, do you just warn users that the app will only work on some 
>>>> devices?
>>>> 
>>>> I want this to work on as many devices as possible, but 3D maps require
>>>> lots of processing.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> J
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
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>>>> subscription preferences:
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Android device speed

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thanks Roger,

In this case, the issue is more with the map presented in a browser widget, 
which is less about LC and more about the embedded chrome framework.

I think that my device is not really a high-end android machine, either.

It looks like max-texture-size might be a decent proxy for measuring GPU power.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 3, 2017, at 8:36 AM, Roger Eller via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I would be more inclined to not say in general "...that Android runs
> slower...", but rather "Android runs LiveCode apps slower."
> 
> There are plenty of Android apps in the Play store that handle large
> graphics VERY well on Android.  It may or may not be just how LiveCode
> rolls, as an improved experience can be achieved by handling images better
> in your code. Breaking them up into grid pieces, and only displaying the
> portion that is within the current view is one way.  You can also reduce
> the size of PNG files using specialized utilities like TinyPNG.
> 
> ~Roger
> 
> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 3:20 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Android devices come with a variety of different specifications. The high
>> end models will be more capable than low end ones. Depending on
>> manufacturer and model, the graphics card will vary in capability and
>> available RAM. Screen resolution also makes a difference. I'm using older
>> test devices because I figure if it works there it will work on most
>> others. But my Samsung S4 runs more slowly than my S5 and they were
>> released only a year apart. And my Nexus tablet, which is older than both
>> Samsung phones, runs as well or better than either of those, probably
>> because it has a lower screen resolution. I'm not sure there's a standard
>> you can rely on.
>> 
>> I guess in general you could say that Android runs slower, but it's
>> probably because there are so many low cost phones with subsequently less
>> processing power. When you get into the higher range phones they can be
>> quite acceptable. The same app that lagged on my Samsung ran fine on
>> someone else's Pixel.
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On August 2, 2017 6:14:06 PM Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello everyone,
>>> 
>>> I just put my app on a galaxy tab E as a test.
>>> 
>>> It is painfully slow, but not just in the LC portion of the app. The map,
>>> delivered through a browser widget, is also slow.
>>> 
>>> So, I used the regular browser (chrome) at the webglearth website. That
>>> was slow too, although not as bad. I think the main difference was that the
>>> map div at their website is small, so it takes less processing power.
>>> 
>>> I had thought I selected a midlevel Android device that can handle
>>> moderate amounts of computation.
>>> 
>>> In y'alls' experience, are android devices just slow? Do they have
>>> inferior graphics processors? If you make computationally heavy apps for
>>> Android, do you just warn users that the app will only work on some devices?
>>> 
>>> I want this to work on as many devices as possible, but 3D maps require
>>> lots of processing.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> J
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> ___
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>>> subscription preferences:
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Android device speed

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Hermann,

That page is a great resource!

Some of their measurements might be a good proxy for GPU power, like the max 
viewport size and a couple others.

It would be preferable to fully internalize the system check. I will look 
through the page source to see what JS commands they use to measure system 
capabilities.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 3, 2017, at 7:27 AM, hh via use-livecode  
wrote:

>> Jonathan wrote:
>> It sounds like I need to find a way to detect the processing speed 
>> of the device.
> 
> Did you alread try to use webgl? See the source of
> https://browserleaks.com/webgl
> 
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Re: Android device speed

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thank you, Jacqueline,


It sounds like I need to find a way to detect the processing speed of the 
device.

If it is below a certain level, it could adjust the div viewport for the map 
proportionally to the processing power.

It could reduce the size of the div, then reexpand it, using a 2d transform. By 
cutting the size of the div in half, vertically and horizontally, it would have 
a quarter of the number of pixels to process in 3D. Reexpanding would return it 
to the original number of pixels, but that is a 2d transform and would be much 
less of a burden on the processor.

The effect would be lower resolution and zoomed in, but that might be better 
than painfully slow map movements.

Do you have any suggestions on how to detect the device's graphics processing 
power?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 3, 2017, at 3:20 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Android devices come with a variety of different specifications. The high end 
> models will be more capable than low end ones. Depending on manufacturer and 
> model, the graphics card will vary in capability and available RAM. Screen 
> resolution also makes a difference. I'm using older test devices because I 
> figure if it works there it will work on most others. But my Samsung S4 runs 
> more slowly than my S5 and they were released only a year apart. And my Nexus 
> tablet, which is older than both Samsung phones, runs as well or better than 
> either of those, probably because it has a lower screen resolution. I'm not 
> sure there's a standard you can rely on.
> 
> I guess in general you could say that Android runs slower, but it's probably 
> because there are so many low cost phones with subsequently less processing 
> power. When you get into the higher range phones they can be quite 
> acceptable. The same app that lagged on my Samsung ran fine on someone else's 
> Pixel.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On August 2, 2017 6:14:06 PM Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>> I just put my app on a galaxy tab E as a test.
>> 
>> It is painfully slow, but not just in the LC portion of the app. The map, 
>> delivered through a browser widget, is also slow.
>> 
>> So, I used the regular browser (chrome) at the webglearth website. That was 
>> slow too, although not as bad. I think the main difference was that the map 
>> div at their website is small, so it takes less processing power.
>> 
>> I had thought I selected a midlevel Android device that can handle moderate 
>> amounts of computation.
>> 
>> In y'alls' experience, are android devices just slow? Do they have inferior 
>> graphics processors? If you make computationally heavy apps for Android, do 
>> you just warn users that the app will only work on some devices?
>> 
>> I want this to work on as many devices as possible, but 3D maps require lots 
>> of processing.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> J
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
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Android device speed

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hello everyone,

I just put my app on a galaxy tab E as a test.

It is painfully slow, but not just in the LC portion of the app. The map, 
delivered through a browser widget, is also slow. 

So, I used the regular browser (chrome) at the webglearth website. That was 
slow too, although not as bad. I think the main difference was that the map div 
at their website is small, so it takes less processing power.

I had thought I selected a midlevel Android device that can handle moderate 
amounts of computation.

In y'alls' experience, are android devices just slow? Do they have inferior 
graphics processors? If you make computationally heavy apps for Android, do you 
just warn users that the app will only work on some devices?

I want this to work on as many devices as possible, but 3D maps require lots of 
processing.

Thanks,

J

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Mark in a kilt...

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Excellent!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 31, 2017, at 6:44 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I bet Kevin and Mark didn’t feel at all self conscious:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBUR8U03B3U
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Sluggish on Mobile Device

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Sorry - I mean did you set the accelerated rendering to true?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 29, 2017, at 7:20 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Did you set the acceleratedrendering of the group ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 29, 2017, at 5:59 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I have a stack/card that has:
>> 
>> (1) A background that is a high-res image,
>> (2) A group of about 200 groups that form a scrolling list,
>> (3) 2 buttons and another group all with transparencies that live on top of 
>> the scrolling list.
>> 
>> On a desktop computer, it’s fine.  But on an actual device (or the 
>> simulator), the scrolling list scrolls REALLY sluggish.  It’s slow, stutters 
>> and is absolutely unacceptable.   I have messed around with the 
>> compositorType and the layerMode of objects -- all without seemingly any 
>> effect.
>> 
>> Is there a secret to getting a group on a complex card to scroll cleanly, or 
>> is LiveCode (8.1.5) unable to do this smoothly?
>> 
>> Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!
>> 
>> -Dan
>> 
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Re: Sluggish on Mobile Device

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Did you set the acceleratedrendering of the group ?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 29, 2017, at 5:59 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have a stack/card that has:
> 
> (1) A background that is a high-res image,
> (2) A group of about 200 groups that form a scrolling list,
> (3) 2 buttons and another group all with transparencies that live on top of 
> the scrolling list.
> 
> On a desktop computer, it’s fine.  But on an actual device (or the 
> simulator), the scrolling list scrolls REALLY sluggish.  It’s slow, stutters 
> and is absolutely unacceptable.   I have messed around with the 
> compositorType and the layerMode of objects -- all without seemingly any 
> effect.
> 
> Is there a secret to getting a group on a complex card to scroll cleanly, or 
> is LiveCode (8.1.5) unable to do this smoothly?
> 
> Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> -Dan
> 
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Re: Parsing (scraping) OpenGraph Tags from html HEAD

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Swami, I know you can do this in Javascript, but you will have to enumerate 
through a JavaScript object to get all of the properties:

https://www.w3schools.com/jsref/prop_meta_content.asp

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 29, 2017, at 4:16 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> given that
> 
> a) trying to instantiate an XML tree from any given web page is likely to 
> fail 85% of the time because they simply are never built to that strict a 
> standard
> 
> 
> and
> 
> 
> b) you want to extract from the  of the document  the openGraph  tags
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/user/kauaiaadheenam;>
> 
>  content="https://yt3.ggpht.com/-p766LczvKHY/AAI/AAA/SIu6ZAJbMDc/s900-c-k-no-mo-rj-c0xff/photo.jpg;>
> 
> 
> c) you also cannot depend on the output being line delimited, because some 
> CMS's delivery "agents" will minimize this to
> 
>  content="https://www.youtube.com/user/kauaiaadheenam;> property="og:title" content="Kauai's Hindu Monastery"> property="og:image" 
> content="https://yt3.ggpht.com/-p766LczvKHY/AAI/AAA/SIu6ZAJbMDc/s900-c-k-no-mo-rj-c0xff/photo.jpg;>  property="og:description" content="{where hinduism meets the future}">
> 
> Has anyone rolled up a parser/scraper for this?   Looks like "idiot simple 
> text extraction"  but I'm trying to wrap my head around how to extract the 
> name=value pairs, and not getting anything easy…  these are space delimited, 
> but then we also have spaces inside quoted strings.  Maybe easier target 
> "" using regEx with matchText, get ALL the meta tags in the HEAD, 
> push to array then just check for if key contains "og:"  then we have an 
> openGraph value.
> 
> I'll sleep on this, but but before I wake up and write 50 lines to get this 
> done…  I see the other thread on scraping pages generated by JS and suspect 
> perhaps some wizard among us already has this done…would save a bit of time 
> here.
> 
> BR
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Web vs Native (was Re: HTML5 limitations?)

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Jim,

One can have interruptible animations by using a handler that progresses the 
movement a single step, then calls itself using a send-in-time construction to 
initiate the next step.

I recently posted a momentum scrolling script on this list that uses this 
technique. Does that help?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 29, 2017, at 2:51 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 7/28/17 1:14 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>> 
>> I think the first thing we would need would be builtin 
>> gesture support. In this case, this isn't even 'a gesture has happened' 
>> but 'it looks like a swipe is just starting' (I think at least). e.g. 
>> swipeBegin / swipeContinue / swipeEnd / swipeCancel.
>> 
>> We'd probably also want a 'swipe' message at the end - i.e. there are 
>> cases where it is the fact that 'swipe' has happened that you want, and 
>> not the details of the process it went through (perhaps swipeEnd would 
>> be fine here, though).
>> 
>> I do like the idea of having the animation of a gesture in the UI being 
>> tied to the event - its a nice low-code approach for a very common 
>> problem.
> 
> How might LC support interactive and interruptible animations as shown in 
> this video on Advanced Animations with UIKit?
> https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2017/230/ 
> 
> 
> This capability is generally applicable to any animation using UIKit. Even 
> non-moving transitions, such as blurring, are supported in an interactive way.
> If supported by LC, it would be useable beyond just moving from card to card 
> or swiping out a sidebar.
> 
> But of course, the particular capability shown in the video is OS-specific. 
> Whereas LC strives to be platform agnostic.
> 
> Jim Lambert
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Re: Sneaky email messages

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I just mean using the post command, or something similar, to send a request 
with information to a server that you set up.

That is way more work than email, but does not hijack their email system.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 29, 2017, at 11:43 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> "via posting to a server" . . .
> 
> Pray tell . . .
> 
> Richmond.
> 
>> On 7/29/17 6:19 pm, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi Richmond,
>> 
>> I think it would be underhanded to use their email system to do that without 
>> warning them, but much less offensive to send reports via posting to a 
>> server, as long as you let them know your software will do that from 
>> time-to-time.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 29, 2017, at 10:58 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> " When Livecode executes the *revMail* command, the user's email program is 
>>> opened (*if necessary*) and a new email message with the specified 
>>> parameters is created.
>>> The user can change any of the settings before sending the message, and the 
>>> message is *not sent automatically*: the user must explicitly send it (for 
>>> example,
>>> by clicking a "Mail" button in the email program)."
>>> 
>>> My colourisation.
>>> 
>>> Is there a way to:
>>> 
>>> 1. prevent the end-user's email client opening?
>>> 
>>> 2. send an email message automatically?
>>> 
>>> OK: let me be direct and open about this:
>>> 
>>> I want standalones sitting on machines of clients of mine to send me their 
>>> MAC addresses and the type of operating system they are using.
>>> 
>>> 3. Would I be an "underhand so-and-so" if I did this?
>>> 
>>> I am aware that many items of software "phone home".
>>> 
>>> Richmond.
>>> ___
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Re: Sneaky email messages

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Richmond,

I think it would be underhanded to use their email system to do that without 
warning them, but much less offensive to send reports via posting to a server, 
as long as you let them know your software will do that from time-to-time.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 29, 2017, at 10:58 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> " When Livecode executes the *revMail* command, the user's email program is 
> opened (*if necessary*) and a new email message with the specified parameters 
> is created.
> The user can change any of the settings before sending the message, and the 
> message is *not sent automatically*: the user must explicitly send it (for 
> example,
> by clicking a "Mail" button in the email program)."
> 
> My colourisation.
> 
> Is there a way to:
> 
> 1. prevent the end-user's email client opening?
> 
> 2. send an email message automatically?
> 
> OK: let me be direct and open about this:
> 
> I want standalones sitting on machines of clients of mine to send me their 
> MAC addresses and the type of operating system they are using.
> 
> 3. Would I be an "underhand so-and-so" if I did this?
> 
> I am aware that many items of software "phone home".
> 
> Richmond.
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Re: Web vs Native (was Re: HTML5 limitations?)

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Here is an example of using wait in my app...

It seems to work better if I first load the map, then add markers from my 
database, rather than doing both at once.

There is not a good trigger to detect when the map is fully loaded and 
displayed.

So, I set an event listener for the page load, to trigger loading the markers 
from my server. Page load catches the process about halfway through-the map 
tile images are still loading from Bing.

I added a wait command in LC at this point, to give the widget a bit more time 
to process the map tile images.

Sometimes, webglearth JavaScript can get hung up if the data connection is 
slow. So, at the end of the wait period, I have LC trigger a moveback() 
function to nudge the widget and get the widget to keep loading tiles.

Wait helped because of imperfections in code outside of my control.

I also think wait can be useful inside of a loop that animates a movement, 
where you want to slow it down. However, this could easily be overcome with 
send-in-time handlers.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 29, 2017, at 9:06 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> You are right, Hermann - did not mean that to be mean-spirited to my home 
> country, which I actually rather love. 
> 
> My apologies.
> 
> I do think that "wait" can be useful sometimes, but not often.
> 
> I was just surprised at the effort they are taking to reproduce "wait" in 
> HTML deployment.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 29, 2017, at 8:51 AM, hh via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> #wait
>> I don't miss the "wait" handler in HTML5 and I wouldn't miss it in LC Script.
>> I even don't know of any use case where "send in " (which works 
>> perfectly
>> in HTML5) isn't superior to "wait". Especially when connected to 
>> move/animation.
>> 
>> Also I don't miss "wait" in LC Builder. There OnTimer() is the superior
>> 'substitute'.
>> 
>> @Jonathan
>> And your 'syncing' skills, demonstrated several times, show that you dont 
>> need
>> it. It's sometimes comfortable to write "wait 1 millisec with messages", but
>> nothing more, it is not an essential command.
>> 
>>> Jonathan wrote:
>>> Either I am misunderstanding, or the concept of what is difficult in 
>>> Scotland
>>> is shedloads harder than what we puny Americans think.
>> 
>> Jonathan, please think about such nasty national statements. There's no need
>> for that.
>> 
>> 
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Re: Web vs Native (was Re: HTML5 limitations?)

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

You are right, Hermann - did not mean that to be mean-spirited to my home 
country, which I actually rather love. 

My apologies.

I do think that "wait" can be useful sometimes, but not often.

I was just surprised at the effort they are taking to reproduce "wait" in HTML 
deployment.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 29, 2017, at 8:51 AM, hh via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> #wait
> I don't miss the "wait" handler in HTML5 and I wouldn't miss it in LC Script.
> I even don't know of any use case where "send in " (which works 
> perfectly
> in HTML5) isn't superior to "wait". Especially when connected to 
> move/animation.
> 
> Also I don't miss "wait" in LC Builder. There OnTimer() is the superior
> 'substitute'.
> 
> @Jonathan
> And your 'syncing' skills, demonstrated several times, show that you dont need
> it. It's sometimes comfortable to write "wait 1 millisec with messages", but
> nothing more, it is not an essential command.
> 
>> Jonathan wrote:
>> Either I am misunderstanding, or the concept of what is difficult in Scotland
>> is shedloads harder than what we puny Americans think.
> 
> Jonathan, please think about such nasty national statements. There's no need
> for that.
> 
> 
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Re: Web vs Native (was Re: HTML5 limitations?)

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

So... if we use the wait command, and deploy to HTML5, the engine converts it 
to JavaScript with extra functions because the engine added in asynchronous 
timeouts? And you preserve all the variable values of the source LC script 
across these multiple functions?

This was the easy solution?

Either I am misunderstanding, or the concept of what is difficult in Scotland 
is shedloads harder than what we puny Americans think.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 29, 2017, at 4:22 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 2017-07-29 07:11, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>>> On 7/28/17 7:29 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>>> P.S. At some point I'll write at length about the 'wait' problem in HTML5. 
>>> Whilst I try not to let myself be kept awake at night by engineering 
>>> problems related to work - if ever there was one which did, it would be 
>>> that one!
>> When you recover from sunstroke I'd be interested to hear about that.
> 
> I figured many people would so check the email I just posted - whilst my 
> general irascibility and tendency to 'tilt at windmills' (again, sorry 
> Hermann, and Bob) might go up slightly when suffering from sunstroke, 
> hopefully my technically acuity isn't affected too much!
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
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Re: Web vs Native (was Re: HTML5 limitations?)

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I thought that JS/HTML5 did not have a wait function? One can loop the engine, 
which is horrible, or one can set timeouts for functions. What functionality do 
you access to induce a wait?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 28, 2017, at 8:29 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Hermann,
> 
> First of all please don't take any offence at my email as none was intended.
> 
> I was mainly trying to explain that whilst there are many things the HTML5 
> engine does not do, which means many stacks will not work without 
> changes/workarounds (indeed, somewhat significant ones) - there are 
> increasing numbers of those which do work and this is set to continue and 
> expand as we have more time to spend on the 'surface' features as opposed to 
> the core.
> 
>> On 2017-07-28 22:22, hh via use-livecode wrote:
>> Probably the "one" (=checking if the mouse is "down") pledged and bought a 
>> HTML5
>> license, the "at least other 2" (=never using it) didn't pledge nor
>> buy a license.
> 
> To be honest, this really is probably not true.
> 
> The thing is that 'the mouse' has long reported the event-asynchronous mouse 
> state, which is almost never what you actually want on modern purely 
> event-driven OSes - so over time its use has diminished as if you use it to 
> do certain things (not all - admittedly), you will end up noticing 
> 'interaction faults' which can be fixed by tracking mouseDown / mouseUp using 
> the event loop. Also, it is generally used alongside 'wait' - which of course 
> does not currently work.
> 
> Obviously you do use it, as do others, so it isn't that it is not important, 
> just that there are lots of other things that we have been working on in the 
> HTML5 engine first which *are* used much more widely.
> 
> It isn't actually possible to get the async mouse state on HTML5, so it will 
> not be 100% the same (although to be fair, the approximation we can use there 
> is probably more correct anyway). It is just a matter of time before we get 
> it to work, not if.
> 
>> I reported to quality center in Dec 2015/Jan 2016, that the state of the 
>> mouse
>> and modifier keys aren't recognized and that all menu buttons crash
>> the standalone.
> 
> Similarly, the modifierKeys. Text entry and keyboard states for the LiveCode 
> engine in HTML5 is another what is a seemingly 'simple' thing from the 
> outside, but is actually not that simple at all under the hood.
> 
> We are still working on solving some issues with text entry - we will solve 
> the problem in time, but again as with other facets of this endeavour some 
> things are taking a lot longer than we had originally anticipated.
> 
>> Since the start of this *395 thousand dollars* project in July 2014 I made at
>> about 60 "successful tests" to show 'oh the HTML5 engine does this' and
>> 'oh it does that'. This wasn't easy at all, needed a _lot_ of workarounds ...
> 
> You've mentioned the amount of money raised several times; however, one thing 
> which everyone has to appreciate is that every project we have crowd-funded 
> has had the value raised matched at least by a factor of 2 from other sources 
> (in some cases significantly more). My point here is not to undervalue the 
> contribution that a good number of you have made, but to illustrate that the 
> scale of the projects we have crowd-funded have been significantly larger 
> than the dollar value we went out to the community to raise would suggest.
> 
> Indeed, we have already spent far in excess of $400k on the HTML5 project 
> when taking into account all work that we have undertake to do it (it isn't 
> just each line of code which is written, but also infrastructure, 
> maintenance, systems and a huge variety of other factors almost all entirely 
> not user/publicly visible).
> 
> There is no problem here (I assure you) - we expected it - we knew it was 
> going to be a large, difficult project. However it is one which was, is, and 
> remains a vital project to finish for our ecosystem as a whole and finish it 
> will shall.
> 
>> So I'll better stop now and wait for the suitable percentage of 'unchanged'
>> LiveCode demos (although "wait" is not allowed in HTML5 deployment).
> 
> I would hope that you will continue to do as you have been - because it has 
> been great to see many of the things you have achieved with the HTML5 engine 
> despite its various obvious omissions in functionality. It also helps us, the 
> engineering team, to see visible progress by users on a project which is 
> large, long and complex (and somewhat frustrating at times!) - particularly 
> when much of the work we are doing, and have been doing is entirely non-user 
> visible!
> 
>> What the team made in HTML deployment until now is *very* good, especially 
>> the
>> "do as javascript" part is excellent. Just put more of the funds (and by that
>> 'bandwidth') into it, so that also basic things (e.g. typing UTF-8 into a 
>> field)
>> do 

Re: Another Browser Widget Question

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

One point where the LC UI is superior to HTML 

MouseStillDown 

LC has this handler, HTML5 does not - at least not in a simple way.



Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 28, 2017, at 1:30 PM, Bleiler, Timothy via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> This has been asked before on this list and in the forums and I’ve never seen 
> even a single reply.
> I assume it’s either blindingly obvious or something we’re "not supposed to 
> do."
> 
> When a web page loaded in the current Livecode browser widget contains a link 
> that should be opened in a tab or new window, clicking on that link does 
> nothing.
> 
> It’s the browser’s responsibility to handle this html syntax
> 
> https://www.w3schools.com; target="_blank">Visit 
> W3Schools
> 
> Is there a way to deal with this using the browser widget in Livecode?
> 
> Thanks,
> Tim Bleiler, Ph.D.
> Instructional Designer, HSIT
> University at Buffalo
> 
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Re: Web vs Native (was Re: HTML5 limitations?)

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

It requires setting up chained handlers on both the LC and JS side, but as long 
as you structure it well, it is not that bad.

I can tell you that for working with maps, it is essential.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 28, 2017, at 12:28 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Folks:
> As a long term Director developer, I found the use of listeners and callbacks 
> to be quite easy to implement. I don’t see the problem.
> 
> on myRequest
>   —send a POST or GET request, whatever, with a callback handler specified.
>   —display a mask that inhibits new mouse clicks and sets a busy icon.
> end myRequest
> on myCallbackHander myReturnData
>  —do whatever you want with myReturnData
> end myCallbackHander
> 
> But then again, I’m not a master of javascript, so there may be other issues.
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
>> On Jul 28, 2017, at 9:16 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Although I am one of the people calling for more browser widget 
>> development...
>> 
>> I have my doubts about the ability to make it synchronous with LC.
>> 
>> JavaScript is not even reliably synchronous with HTML5, forcing JS 
>> developers to use callbacks and event listeners in weird places.
>> 
>> Unless you guys are going to rewrite JavaScript AND HTML, how could this be 
>> accomplished?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Jul 28, 2017, at 11:57 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On 2017-07-28 16:47, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Hence oft-repeated prayer that we get the browser "widget" to become a
>>>> true member of the LC message hierarchy, they we can leverage the web
>>>> apps eye candy layer (easy to build, responsive, CSS is already done
>>>> for us…) with LC powerful framework, so that we don't have to waste
>>>> time using JS to get work done, but use it just for "clicking here and
>>>> there" while LC does the heavy lifting in the background.
>>> 
>>> I can assure you your 'prayer' has been heard - however, there is a slight 
>>> chasm between hearing a prayer and being able to act on it (especially for 
>>> mere mortals, like ourselves ;)).
>>> 
>>> There is a whole (reasonably sized) 'new market' for LiveCode in the space 
>>> of providing the shell into which HTML5/JS webapps can be placed. i.e. The 
>>> creation of a native app which wraps a HTML5/JS web-app which then has 
>>> direct access to all the platform features LiveCode gives you access to (a 
>>> bit like PhoneGap or Cordova or ... - the fact there are so many of these 
>>> things suggests that it is a very useful thing that people actually want to 
>>> do). Now, this works quite well right now - although I do appreciate that 
>>> the asynchronous nature of return values from the host (LiveCode) does make 
>>> some things more difficult to do (*although*, it should be pointed out that 
>>> async something I think *all* other host environments that provide this 
>>> kind of wrapping have to put up with!).
>>> 
>>> However, as you have may have noticed (from various comments - sometimes 
>>> positive, sometimes not, mostly not - about CEF) there is a fair bit of 
>>> technical challenge involved in having a browser widget and keeping it 
>>> working on all platforms. Now, this is not to say we do not like technical 
>>> challenges - we clearly do. However, in general, the greater the technical 
>>> challenge, the greater the resources required to solve it.
>>> 
>>> Such an endeavour *has* to be self supporting - i.e. it needs to generate 
>>> enough revenue in order to justify its existence. The browser widget as it 
>>> stands is already taxing us on that front (it is really important, so 
>>> whilst I sometimes get concerned about the 'money-pit' it sometimes seems 
>>> to be, one has to remind oneself that some things are a long-term 
>>> investment).
>>> 
>>> Of course, the above is entirely related to technical issues - there is 
>>> also the problem of selling LiveCode and this feature into such a space...
>>> 
>>> That old adage of 'build it and they will come' is quite possibly one of 
>>> the biggest load of bovine-backend-excretion that has ever been uttered. 
>>> Build it and, well, most people will walk by it, some might look 

Re: Web vs Native (was Re: HTML5 limitations?)

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Although I am one of the people calling for more browser widget development...

I have my doubts about the ability to make it synchronous with LC.

JavaScript is not even reliably synchronous with HTML5, forcing JS developers 
to use callbacks and event listeners in weird places.

Unless you guys are going to rewrite JavaScript AND HTML, how could this be 
accomplished?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 28, 2017, at 11:57 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 2017-07-28 16:47, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hence oft-repeated prayer that we get the browser "widget" to become a
>> true member of the LC message hierarchy, they we can leverage the web
>> apps eye candy layer (easy to build, responsive, CSS is already done
>> for us…) with LC powerful framework, so that we don't have to waste
>> time using JS to get work done, but use it just for "clicking here and
>> there" while LC does the heavy lifting in the background.
> 
> I can assure you your 'prayer' has been heard - however, there is a slight 
> chasm between hearing a prayer and being able to act on it (especially for 
> mere mortals, like ourselves ;)).
> 
> There is a whole (reasonably sized) 'new market' for LiveCode in the space of 
> providing the shell into which HTML5/JS webapps can be placed. i.e. The 
> creation of a native app which wraps a HTML5/JS web-app which then has direct 
> access to all the platform features LiveCode gives you access to (a bit like 
> PhoneGap or Cordova or ... - the fact there are so many of these things 
> suggests that it is a very useful thing that people actually want to do). 
> Now, this works quite well right now - although I do appreciate that the 
> asynchronous nature of return values from the host (LiveCode) does make some 
> things more difficult to do (*although*, it should be pointed out that async 
> something I think *all* other host environments that provide this kind of 
> wrapping have to put up with!).
> 
> However, as you have may have noticed (from various comments - sometimes 
> positive, sometimes not, mostly not - about CEF) there is a fair bit of 
> technical challenge involved in having a browser widget and keeping it 
> working on all platforms. Now, this is not to say we do not like technical 
> challenges - we clearly do. However, in general, the greater the technical 
> challenge, the greater the resources required to solve it.
> 
> Such an endeavour *has* to be self supporting - i.e. it needs to generate 
> enough revenue in order to justify its existence. The browser widget as it 
> stands is already taxing us on that front (it is really important, so whilst 
> I sometimes get concerned about the 'money-pit' it sometimes seems to be, one 
> has to remind oneself that some things are a long-term investment).
> 
> Of course, the above is entirely related to technical issues - there is also 
> the problem of selling LiveCode and this feature into such a space...
> 
> That old adage of 'build it and they will come' is quite possibly one of the 
> biggest load of bovine-backend-excretion that has ever been uttered. Build it 
> and, well, most people will walk by it, some might look at it and go 'oh 
> that's nice' and walk on, very few will actually take the time to visit it 
> without some sort of cajoling. Unfortunately, this kind of activity (I'm of 
> course talking about marketing) tends to be a great deal more expensive than 
> development (I could make the rather cynical observation that there is a 
> reason why marketing consultant's offices tend to be a great deal 'nicer' 
> than those of computing consultants - but I should probably keep that to 
> myself ;)) and it is only through marketing such things that you can make 
> them generate enough revenue to pay for their seat at the table.
> 
> So TL;DR version. Yes - Kevin and I would both like to do more with the 
> browser widget as it is actually a really really cool thing (so we hear your 
> prayers - every one). However, right now, we simply don't feel we have the 
> bandwidth (to use a Kevinism) to do it properly in a way where the endeavour 
> can be fully self-supporting. Also, we are already seated at a rather large 
> dinner at the moment (Infinite LiveCode, LiveCode Connect, LiveCodeForFM, 
> Version 9, Maintenance of 8, ...) so perhaps need to finish *at least* one of 
> those courses before we embark on the next (no-one likes indigestion, after 
> all).
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> P.S. By the way, I'm mainly saying all of this to make it clear that we have 
> been listening, we are just not able to act on it at the moment. Please *do* 
> keep poking us about it - as it keeps the idea in our minds, and each time it 
> comes up it causes a re-evaluation. It also helps to remind people that they 
> CAN use LiveCode for this kind of stuff and so should - which is a precursor 
> to being able to convince people who are not 'LiveCoders' 

Re: HTML5 limitations?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

The size limit on data in local storage is 5 to 10 mb per origin, depending on 
browser. Not sure if that would be an issue.

Local storage seems to work pretty well in my experiments, if the limitations 
are not an issue.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 25, 2017, at 5:07 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Can LiveCode HTML5 include or call Javascript? If so you could use local 
> storage InedxedDB for the database. Or WebSQL. If the data isn’t too big.
> 
> 
>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:28 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> And direct db access is also not possible. For that you´ll need some kind of 
>>  a “db gateway” which can be done with lc server or php.
>> 
>> Matthias Rebbe
> 
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Re: HTML5 limitations?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

No problem, but thanks for replying.

That is really interesting. I know that setting up such a structure in 
traditional HTML/JS would be a big pain, because I have looked into something 
similar before for other reasons.

It must have been quite a bit of work to duplicate that structure in the HTML5 
deployment of LC.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 25, 2017, at 4:21 PM, Kevin Miller via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes you can. I'm at a conference just now but hopefully someone knowledgable 
> on our team can jump in with more info.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 25 Jul 2017, at 13:07, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Kevin,
>> 
>> Can you have a structure similar to having multiple stacks controlled by an 
>> LC engine?
>> 
>> I am really curious how you guys set that up? Using localstorage and cookies 
>> are the only methods I know of for doing that in regular html5 with multiple 
>> tabs/windows.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:54 PM, Kevin Miller via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Go in window of stack works
>>> 
>>> You can download stacks just fine
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On 25 Jul 2017, at 12:46, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> In HTML the browser is the engine that runs both HTML and JavaScript. It 
>>>> is possible to have multiple tabs and there are some functions for 
>>>> communicating between tabs and windows, but it isn't pretty. You have to 
>>>> use localstorage and storage events.
>>>> 
>>>> This could be made to work similar to an LC engine running multiple 
>>>> stacks, but it is like turning real fish into artificial crab. It is a lot 
>>>> of work to make something that will probably leave you with a bad taste in 
>>>> your mouth.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:30 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks. I don't think the sandbox is an issue, the app doesn't read or 
>>>>> write to the user's drive at all. The various animations, and 
>>>>> splash-stack approach might be a concern, as well as the number of stacks 
>>>>> that are in RAM at any one time. Common images and icons are also stored 
>>>>> in the standalone, which are displayed in the downloaded stacks as they 
>>>>> are opened.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The only HTML5 examples I've seen are all self-contained single stack 
>>>>> standalones.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 7/25/17 2:00 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>>> Well, the sandbox is a huge issue. JavaScript is not allowed to access 
>>>>>> many things that LC can access in the user's system.
>>>>>> The sandbox protects against malicious pages.
>>>>>> It is very hard to simulate the mouseStillDown handler in HTML/JS.
>>>>>> My app is a hybrid of LC and html5. The pace of development for LC is 
>>>>>> easily 10 times faster for me.
>>>>>> LC text processing and array management is much much more flexible.
>>>>>> "Get the keys of myArray" beats enumerating through a JS array any day.
>>>>>> JS does not have true associative arrays, although you can work around 
>>>>>> that with datamaps.
>>>>>> JS does not have programmatic access to the clipboard.
>>>>>> Most of the limitations are related to security issues. If the sandbox 
>>>>>> is not an issue, then html5 will probably work, but they should expect 
>>>>>> to spend a fortune and live with a long development cycle with painfully 
>>>>>> slow bug fixes.
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>>>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have some 
>>>>>>> doubts about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is currently 
>>>>>>> possible and w

Re: HTML5 limitations?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Kevin,

Can you have a structure similar to having multiple stacks controlled by an LC 
engine?

I am really curious how you guys set that up? Using localstorage and cookies 
are the only methods I know of for doing that in regular html5 with multiple 
tabs/windows.



Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:54 PM, Kevin Miller via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Go in window of stack works
> 
> You can download stacks just fine
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 25 Jul 2017, at 12:46, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> In HTML the browser is the engine that runs both HTML and JavaScript. It is 
>> possible to have multiple tabs and there are some functions for 
>> communicating between tabs and windows, but it isn't pretty. You have to use 
>> localstorage and storage events.
>> 
>> This could be made to work similar to an LC engine running multiple stacks, 
>> but it is like turning real fish into artificial crab. It is a lot of work 
>> to make something that will probably leave you with a bad taste in your 
>> mouth.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:30 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks. I don't think the sandbox is an issue, the app doesn't read or 
>>> write to the user's drive at all. The various animations, and splash-stack 
>>> approach might be a concern, as well as the number of stacks that are in 
>>> RAM at any one time. Common images and icons are also stored in the 
>>> standalone, which are displayed in the downloaded stacks as they are opened.
>>> 
>>> The only HTML5 examples I've seen are all self-contained single stack 
>>> standalones.
>>> 
>>>> On 7/25/17 2:00 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Well, the sandbox is a huge issue. JavaScript is not allowed to access 
>>>> many things that LC can access in the user's system.
>>>> The sandbox protects against malicious pages.
>>>> It is very hard to simulate the mouseStillDown handler in HTML/JS.
>>>> My app is a hybrid of LC and html5. The pace of development for LC is 
>>>> easily 10 times faster for me.
>>>> LC text processing and array management is much much more flexible.
>>>> "Get the keys of myArray" beats enumerating through a JS array any day.
>>>> JS does not have true associative arrays, although you can work around 
>>>> that with datamaps.
>>>> JS does not have programmatic access to the clipboard.
>>>> Most of the limitations are related to security issues. If the sandbox is 
>>>> not an issue, then html5 will probably work, but they should expect to 
>>>> spend a fortune and live with a long development cycle with painfully slow 
>>>> bug fixes.
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have some 
>>>>> doubts about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is currently 
>>>>> possible and what is not?
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is a very large set of stacks, run by a standalone that loads 
>>>>> content on demand from a server. It is image-heavy and interacts with a 
>>>>> networked database. There is lots of navigation between stacks and many 
>>>>> hundreds of cards. At any given time, there can be up to a dozen stacks 
>>>>> held in RAM. There is also heavy use of visual effects and animation.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>>>>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> ___
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>>> subscription preferences:
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>>>> Please visit this url to subscrib

Re: HTML5 limitations?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

In HTML the browser is the engine that runs both HTML and JavaScript. It is 
possible to have multiple tabs and there are some functions for communicating 
between tabs and windows, but it isn't pretty. You have to use localstorage and 
storage events.

This could be made to work similar to an LC engine running multiple stacks, but 
it is like turning real fish into artificial crab. It is a lot of work to make 
something that will probably leave you with a bad taste in your mouth.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 25, 2017, at 3:30 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks. I don't think the sandbox is an issue, the app doesn't read or write 
> to the user's drive at all. The various animations, and splash-stack approach 
> might be a concern, as well as the number of stacks that are in RAM at any 
> one time. Common images and icons are also stored in the standalone, which 
> are displayed in the downloaded stacks as they are opened.
> 
> The only HTML5 examples I've seen are all self-contained single stack 
> standalones.
> 
>> On 7/25/17 2:00 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>> Well, the sandbox is a huge issue. JavaScript is not allowed to access many 
>> things that LC can access in the user's system.
>> The sandbox protects against malicious pages.
>> It is very hard to simulate the mouseStillDown handler in HTML/JS.
>> My app is a hybrid of LC and html5. The pace of development for LC is easily 
>> 10 times faster for me.
>> LC text processing and array management is much much more flexible.
>> "Get the keys of myArray" beats enumerating through a JS array any day.
>> JS does not have true associative arrays, although you can work around that 
>> with datamaps.
>> JS does not have programmatic access to the clipboard.
>> Most of the limitations are related to security issues. If the sandbox is 
>> not an issue, then html5 will probably work, but they should expect to spend 
>> a fortune and live with a long development cycle with painfully slow bug 
>> fixes.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have some doubts 
>>> about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is currently possible 
>>> and what is not?
>>> 
>>> This is a very large set of stacks, run by a standalone that loads content 
>>> on demand from a server. It is image-heavy and interacts with a networked 
>>> database. There is lots of navigation between stacks and many hundreds of 
>>> cards. At any given time, there can be up to a dozen stacks held in RAM. 
>>> There is also heavy use of visual effects and animation.
>>> 
>>> Thoughts?
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
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>> preferences:
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
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Re: HTML5 limitations?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Well, the sandbox is a huge issue. JavaScript is not allowed to access many 
things that LC can access in the user's system.

The sandbox protects against malicious pages.

It is very hard to simulate the mouseStillDown handler in HTML/JS.

My app is a hybrid of LC and html5. The pace of development for LC is easily 10 
times faster for me.

LC text processing and array management is much much more flexible.

"Get the keys of myArray" beats enumerating through a JS array any day. 

JS does not have true associative arrays, although you can work around that 
with datamaps.

JS does not have programmatic access to the clipboard.

Most of the limitations are related to security issues. If the sandbox is not 
an issue, then html5 will probably work, but they should expect to spend a 
fortune and live with a long development cycle with painfully slow bug fixes.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 25, 2017, at 2:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have a client that wants to move our project to HTML5. I have some doubts 
> about the capabilities, could someone tell me what is currently possible and 
> what is not?
> 
> This is a very large set of stacks, run by a standalone that loads content on 
> demand from a server. It is image-heavy and interacts with a networked 
> database. There is lots of navigation between stacks and many hundreds of 
> cards. At any given time, there can be up to a dozen stacks held in RAM. 
> There is also heavy use of visual effects and animation.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
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Re: I just added an enhancement request - 20138 - suggestion for in-app ads

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

That would work for me.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 22, 2017, at 1:30 AM, Dan Brown via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> The logistics of operating an ad aggregator would be a full time business
> in itself I'd imagine. However lc forming a partnership with one of the top
> existing aggregators and creating a widget to display the ads I could see
> being a winner.
> 
> For apps made in lc community they could take a percentage of the ad click
> revenue and for paid versions they don't.
> 
> On 21 Jul 2017 11:50 pm, "Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode" <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> When you sign up with an ad aggregator, a portion of the revenue goes to
>> the aggregator. This would be no different. Basically, I am suggesting
>> something like MobFox for LiveCode. Voluntary, of course.
>> 
>> We need a realistic and practical as solution for ads.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 21, 2017, at 6:41 PM, Dr. Hawkins <doch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I was suggesting that perhaps providing a start to finish way for us to
>> have ads in the apps we make could provide extra income to RunRev - more
>> than the cost of hiring extra staff to make that happen.
>>>> 
>>> They don't even have ads for *us* inside apps working in a usable way at
>> the moment.
>>> 
>>> There is supposedly a facility for it, but the company that supposedly
>> provides them wants nothing to do with us.
>>> 
>>> I stopped work on my mobile app over this, and will probably resume it
>> in swift if they don't get around to fixing this.
>>> 
>>> From my prior inquiries, I don't think that anyone on this list has
>> successfully placed an ad with it.
>>> 
>>> And on top of that, I expect ad revenue for my work to go to me, not
>> livecode (or are they going to cut me in on their sales)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
>>> (702) 508-8462
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Re: I just added an enhancement request - 20138 - suggestion for in-app ads

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

When you sign up with an ad aggregator, a portion of the revenue goes to the 
aggregator. This would be no different. Basically, I am suggesting something 
like MobFox for LiveCode. Voluntary, of course.

We need a realistic and practical as solution for ads. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 21, 2017, at 6:41 PM, Dr. Hawkins <doch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I was suggesting that perhaps providing a start to finish way for us to have 
>> ads in the apps we make could provide extra income to RunRev - more than the 
>> cost of hiring extra staff to make that happen.
>> 
> They don't even have ads for *us* inside apps working in a usable way at the 
> moment.
> 
> There is supposedly a facility for it, but the company that supposedly 
> provides them wants nothing to do with us.
> 
> I stopped work on my mobile app over this, and will probably resume it in 
> swift if they don't get around to fixing this.
> 
> From my prior inquiries, I don't think that anyone on this list has 
> successfully placed an ad with it.
> 
> And on top of that, I expect ad revenue for my work to go to me, not livecode 
> (or are they going to cut me in on their sales)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
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Re: I just added an enhancement request - 20138 - suggestion for in-app ads

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I did not mean inside the IDE.

I was suggesting that perhaps providing a start to finish way for us to have 
ads in the apps we make could provide extra income to RunRev - more than the 
cost of hiring extra staff to make that happen.

I don't want to sound like I know what is best for them - I don't - just 
proposing it as a possibility.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 21, 2017, at 5:40 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> No he said apps MADE in Livecode. But I think it's a bad idea for RunRev 
> (livecode whatever) to get sidetracked. I really like the progress they are 
> making with new features and bug fixes. I want this long train to keep on 
> moving. After all, without love, where would you be right now? (hmmm... those 
> would be great lyrics for a song!) 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jul 21, 2017, at 14:24 , Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> You mean inside the IDE?
> 
> 
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I just added an enhancement request - 20138 - suggestion for in-app ads

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

My suggestion might be terrible, but I put it in for discussion. I suggested LC 
take on the role of ad aggregator for providing in-app adds for apps made with 
LC. It could be a source of revenue for the company and for developers, and it 
could attract more developers looking for easy solutions to monetize their apps.

I won't be offended if anyone thinks it is an awful idea.

J

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Problem after putting executable into installer

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I figured it out, putting in the answer for future use.

We have to modify the inno script for including the externals folder. After 
using the wizard, we need to add "\Externals" after "{app}" in the line that 
tells it to include the externals folder. Otherwise, it will add the externals 
folder contents directly into the same folder as the app.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 21, 2017, at 3:25 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> My app works fine when I run it. But, if I put it into an installer (using 
> Inno) and then install it, the app won't launch. It says it has a problem 
> loading an external.
> 
> Does anyone have suggestions on where I should look for debugging?
> 
> I am including both the revsecurity dll and the externals folder in the 
> setup, and I have used inno before with success.
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone

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Problem after putting executable into installer

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

My app works fine when I run it. But, if I put it into an installer (using 
Inno) and then install it, the app won't launch. It says it has a problem 
loading an external.

Does anyone have suggestions on where I should look for debugging?

I am including both the revsecurity dll and the externals folder in the setup, 
and I have used inno before with success.

Thanks 

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Restrictions on mobile servers?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

A bit OT but entertaining, apparently one can use an iPhone as a server:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6804650/ios-devices-as-web-server

I see no point to this, but, you know, people just do things :)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 20, 2017, at 4:33 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I use a "stun" server to get the ata(sip client) ip behind NAT. There are
> public stun servers or you can install an open source one on your one
> server.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
> Of Stephen Barncard via use-livecode
> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 4:13 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Stephen Barncard
> Subject: Re: Restrictions on mobile servers?
> 
> I'm pretty sure SIP servers just  makes introductions to two clients running
> on devices and gets out of the way. A way to keep your IP out of it.
> Also they use UDP packets - MUCH less latency - and does error correction
> (reconstruction?) without re-requesting as HTTP based clients do.
> 
> the 'stuff' to do this has recently been added to the named browsers.
> All the code is there.
> 
> --
> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA -
> mixstream.org
> 
> On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Stephen Barncard wrote:
>> 
>>> Richard:
>>> 
>>> I've been working with with VOIP applications and there are some 
>>> systems that have free methods for finding each other.
>>> 
>>> Check out the Linphone SIP service  (and Linphone itself is pretty
>>> cool)
>> 
>> Thanks.  Isn't Linphone client-server, as opposed to direct P2P?
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web  
>> 
>> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>> 
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Re: Find some text characters

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Using ";" as the itemdel - makes sense.

I also realized both split and filter could used for this.

None of these beat regex for brevity, though.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 20, 2017, at 11:06 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> of if char 3 to -1 of tItem > 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Jul 17, 2017, at 14:59 , Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> If the number of chars in tItem = 8 then...
> 
> 
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Re: Export SVG as PNG?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

If you have a complex svg that needs a browser to display it, you can do this 
through JavaScript.

On LiveCode Share, the SVG- powered images stack does this.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 19, 2017, at 11:47 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I would simplfy that to:
> 
> export snapshot of widget "XXX" to file "XXX.png" as PNG
> 
> no need to mess around with "the rect of".
> 
> Richmond.
> 
>> On 7/19/17 6:44 pm, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote:
>> export snapshot from rect (the rect of widget 1) of widget 1 to file (
>> specialfolderpath("desktop") & "/test.png") as png
>> 
>> 
>> The 'of widget 1' part is the important part - that takes the object in
>> isolation rather than snapshotting the background of the card.
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 4:36 PM Dan Friedman via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello!   Is it possible to export a svg widget to a png and retain the
>>> transparency?  If so, how would you go about doing that?
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> -Dan
>>> 
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Re: Find some text characters

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Another way... just playing around

Replace tab with empty in tstring
Replace ";" with empty in tstring
Replace "#" with empty in tstring
Replace "&" with linefeed in tstring
Repeat for each line tLine in tstring 
If the number of chars in tLine = 5 then
Put tLine and linefeed after tList
End if
End repeat
Delete char -1 of tList

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 17, 2017, at 7:50 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Another way, just for fun
> 
> Put empty into tnums 
> Repeat for each char tchar in tstring 
> 
> If isnumber(tchar) = true then
> Put tchar after tnums
> Else if tnums <> empty then
> If the number of chars in tnums = 5 then
> Put tnums & linefeed after tnumlist 
> End if
> Put empty into tnums
> End if
> End repeat
> 
> This should give a list of all 5 number sets
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 17, 2017, at 6:45 PM, dunbarx via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> This cries out for regex.
>> 
>> Thierry?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Find-some-text-characters-tp4717138p4717143.html
>> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> 
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Re: Find some text characters

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Another way, just for fun

Put empty into tnums 
Repeat for each char tchar in tstring 

If isnumber(tchar) = true then
Put tchar after tnums
Else if tnums <> empty then
If the number of chars in tnums = 5 then
Put tnums & linefeed after tnumlist 
End if
Put empty into tnums
End if
End repeat

This should give a list of all 5 number sets

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 17, 2017, at 6:45 PM, dunbarx via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> This cries out for regex.
> 
> Thierry?
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Find-some-text-characters-tp4717138p4717143.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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Re: Find some text characters

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Could replace tab with empty first, if the tabs do not matter in the final 
product

I imagine LC provides many ways to do this :)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 17, 2017, at 6:20 PM, Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Given this htmlText that may contain Chinese characters and/or some horizontal
> tabs—
> 
> 
> 
> I want to know if this data contains Chinese characters, that is an entity 
> with
> 5 numbers between the “#” and the “;”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> according to google-translate this means "bold and strong"
> 
> maybe this is a way?
> 
> 
>   set the htmlText of field 1 to 
> ""
> 
>   put the number of truewords of field 1 into field 2
> 
>   set the itemDelimiter to tab
> 
>   put cr & the number of items of field 1 after field 2
> 
> still doesn't tell you if is numbers or not though
> 
> Kind regards
> Bernd
> 
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Re: Find some text characters

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

If the number of chars in tItem = 8 then...

You always have three extra chars, so that should be right.

If you need an itemdelimiter, use "&" and check if the number of chars in each 
item = 7

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 17, 2017, at 5:40 PM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Is there a easy way to do this?:
> 
> Given this htmlText that may contain Chinese characters and/or some 
> horizontal tabs—
> 
> 
> 
> I want to know if this data contains Chinese characters, that is an entity 
> with 5 numbers between the “#” and the “;”
> 
> Only data containing 5 numbers between the “#” and the “;” would return true. 
> Having ONLY "” but not the other would return false. 
> 
> Thanks for suggestions!
> 
> Peter Bogdanoff
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Re: Correct img format for browser widget.

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi James,

Just a quick note - you can set the max-width of images in CSS. That will limit 
their size with just one line.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 16, 2017, at 11:42 PM, James Hale via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thank you so much Hermann and Jonathan
> 
> It took me a little time but I worked out what to do after looking at your 
> suggestions.
> 
> The fact that setting the htmltext of the browser widget breaks the img URL's 
> makes sense from a security and logical point of view.
> 
> I then tried Jonathan's technique of using the image data. 
> This worked a treat but for some files was quite slow on my larger files.
> e.g. one html had 200 images. It took some 20 secs for the browser to load.
> 
> So I thought I would try Hermann's later suggesting of just saving the file 
> as an html and setting the URL of the browser to it.
> The conversion from markdown left the img tags in the correct format for a 
> browser to locate the files.
> 
> After finding Trevor's function for correctly URL encoding the file name I 
> was able to successfully load the files into the browser widget and display 
> the images.
> The 200 image file loaded in less than a second which was good.
> 
> The final issue was the varying width of the images.
> I simply loaded an array keyed on the file names with a single value, image 
> width.
> I didn't want any widths greater than 800 pixels so a simply if statement set 
> all widths > 800 to 800
> Then a simple replace loop using the image size array "gimagescale"...
> repeat for each key ikey in gimagescale
> 
>replace ikey&" " with ikey&" width = 
> "[ikey] in nfile
> 
> end repeat
> 
> and the img tags were in a format I wanted.
> 
> Loading into the browser widget was fast and the images all fitted in the 
> browser's width.
> 
> Setting the htmltext of a field was my first choice. But the html of the 
> converted markdown docs was more than LC's htmltext function could handle.
> And to be honest, the browser's rendering looked better.
> Had the html been simpler, using a field would have been just as fast.
> 
> Anyway, my issue is resolved.
> 
> Thank you both again for your help.
> 
> James
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: LiveCode crashing when I try to make a Mac standalone

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thank you Panos

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 14, 2017, at 7:07 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jonathan,
> 
> You could:
> 
> 1. Type in the message box: "put true into grevdevelopment"
> 2. And then "edit the script of stack revsaveasstandalone"
> 3. Add breakpoints to the command "revSaveAsMacStandalone"
> 4. Save as standalone
> 5. The debugger should now stop at the first breakpoint
> 6. Click the "step over" button until you find the line that causes the
> crash
> 
> However, since LC should not crash, I would suggest you file a bug report
> and attach (or send to panos.mera...@livecode.com directly) the sample stack
> 
> Best regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I have tried this with 8.1.5 rc2, 8.1.5, and 8.1.6 rc1.
>> 
>> LiveCode unexpectedly quits while making the standalone. Sometimes it gets
>> far enough for the resulting app to function and sometimes it does not. The
>> resulting app does not appear to have the icon attached.
>> 
>> What are some things I should be checking for?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Correct img format for browser widget.

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

It sounds like the dataURL method costs about a tenth of a second per image, 
for moderately large images.

I had never tested that, but it's good to know. For my purposes right now, that 
is not an issue, but it could be for plenty of situations.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 16, 2017, at 11:42 PM, James Hale via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thank you so much Hermann and Jonathan
> 
> It took me a little time but I worked out what to do after looking at your 
> suggestions.
> 
> The fact that setting the htmltext of the browser widget breaks the img URL's 
> makes sense from a security and logical point of view.
> 
> I then tried Jonathan's technique of using the image data. 
> This worked a treat but for some files was quite slow on my larger files.
> e.g. one html had 200 images. It took some 20 secs for the browser to load.
> 
> So I thought I would try Hermann's later suggesting of just saving the file 
> as an html and setting the URL of the browser to it.
> The conversion from markdown left the img tags in the correct format for a 
> browser to locate the files.
> 
> After finding Trevor's function for correctly URL encoding the file name I 
> was able to successfully load the files into the browser widget and display 
> the images.
> The 200 image file loaded in less than a second which was good.
> 
> The final issue was the varying width of the images.
> I simply loaded an array keyed on the file names with a single value, image 
> width.
> I didn't want any widths greater than 800 pixels so a simply if statement set 
> all widths > 800 to 800
> Then a simple replace loop using the image size array "gimagescale"...
> repeat for each key ikey in gimagescale
> 
> replace ikey&" " with ikey&" width = 
> "[ikey] in nfile
> 
> end repeat
> 
> and the img tags were in a format I wanted.
> 
> Loading into the browser widget was fast and the images all fitted in the 
> browser's width.
> 
> Setting the htmltext of a field was my first choice. But the html of the 
> converted markdown docs was more than LC's htmltext function could handle.
> And to be honest, the browser's rendering looked better.
> Had the html been simpler, using a field would have been just as fast.
> 
> Anyway, my issue is resolved.
> 
> Thank you both again for your help.
> 
> James
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Weird variable thing in 8.1.5

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

That was it - must have gotten clicked by accident.

In 14 years with LC I have never used that option.



Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 16, 2017, at 1:43 PM, ** Clarence P Martin ** via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Check in your script editor window under the Edit Sub-menu and look to see
> if "variable checking" is checked. That means that you need to declare any
> variables before you can use them. If you uncheck this, LiveCode will not
> require you to declare variables.
> Some people don't use variable checking and other do. That is a personal
> preference. Look up variable checking in the manual and you can decide what
> to do.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Clarence Martin
> Email: chi...@themartinz.com
> Cell: 626 6965561
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
> Of Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode
> Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2017 8:07 AM
> To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Cc: jonathandly...@gmail.com
> Subject: Weird variable thing in 8.1.5
> 
> I just created a button with this script:
> 
> On mouseup
>  Put "test" into tTest
> End mouseUp
> 
> It would not compile, producing the following error:
> 
> Compilation error at line 2 (Chunk: can't create a variable with that name
> (explicitVariables?)) near "tTest", char 15
> 
> Why would this happen?
> 
> Nobody would ever be able to use 8.1.5 if that always happened, so what
> would make it happen now?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
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> 
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Should RunRev create a testing circle for developers?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but thought I would throw it out 
there.

Would it be helpful if the Mothership had a group activity where developers 
could put in a certain number of hours testing others' apps, and then cash in 
for an equal number of hours from other developers getting their own apps 
tested?

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Weird variable thing in 8.1.5

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thanks Panos

It is amazing how many options LC has. :)



Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 16, 2017, at 11:14 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jonathan,
> 
> This is because you have enabled Strict Compilation Mode. To fix that error:
> 
> 1) add "local tTest" before "Put "test" into tTest"
> 
> OR
> 
> 2) Disable strict compilation (LC Preferences -> Script Editor -> Strict
> Compilation Mode)
> 
> Best,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I just created a button with this script:
>> 
>> On mouseup
>>  Put "test" into tTest
>> End mouseUp
>> 
>> It would not compile, producing the following error:
>> 
>> Compilation error at line 2 (Chunk: can't create a variable with that name
>> (explicitVariables?)) near "tTest", char 15
>> 
>> Why would this happen?
>> 
>> Nobody would ever be able to use 8.1.5 if that always happened, so what
>> would make it happen now?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
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Weird variable thing in 8.1.5

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I just created a button with this script:

On mouseup
  Put "test" into tTest
End mouseUp

It would not compile, producing the following error:

Compilation error at line 2 (Chunk: can't create a variable with that name 
(explicitVariables?)) near "tTest", char 15

Why would this happen?

Nobody would ever be able to use 8.1.5 if that always happened, so what would 
make it happen now?

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Correct img format for browser widget.

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

James - if you look at the example stack on LiveCode share "browser widget 
image manipulator" it has some LC code for creating a dataURl for an image.

Use that to create the data URL for the image.  

Basically:

Get the image info from the image file like this:

Put URL "binfile:imagepath" into timageinfo

Put base64encode(timageinfo) into timageinfo 

Replace linefeed with empty in timageinfo


Then you follow the example in the stack for putting that base 64 image 
information into the SRC of the image.

Then you replace your old SRC with the new SRC in the htmltext.

Then you set the HTML text of your widget with the adjusted HTMLtext.

In this way you won't have to use JavaScript and it should display well.

If this does not work, let me know and I will write out the script.



Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 16, 2017, at 9:37 AM, hh via use-livecode 
 wrote:

>> Jonathan wrote:
>> Is this part of the same-source policy for web pages? The HTML file and the 
>> image file
>> needing to be in the same folder?
> 
> No. I wrote this only because the example used a relative path pointing to 
> the same folder:
> 
>> Example htmltext of the widget or text of the file "flower2b.html":
>> 
> 
> But the same-source-policy is becoming more and more strong.
> The browser (or webkit repspectively) wants a clear "base-url" when making 
> the decision
> whether 'same-source' is fulfilled.
> This may be a problem here because such a "base-url" is derived by also 
> checking the
> html-file origin. And in the case of an empty URL of the widget (htmltext 
> only is set)
> there is no file origin ...
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Correct img format for browser widget.

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

So - thinking about this dime more - the browser widget uses a dummy URL if not 
told to load a specific URL, and the dummy URL would not have permission to 
access local drives, for security reasons.

That would mean the "file:///" prefix would not work either.

So he would have to either save the HTML file to the local disk, or convert to 
dataURLs.

Fortunately, it is only a few lines of code to convert to a dataURL, and he can 
build it into his HTML without having to use JavaScript.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 16, 2017, at 9:10 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Hi Hermann,
> 
> Is this part of the same-source policy for web pages? The HTML file and the 
> image file needing to be in the same folder?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 16, 2017, at 5:45 AM, hh via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> You can have that without a (local) server when using a browser widget.
>> 
>> Although you can NOT display an image from disk without javascript by
>> only setting the htmltext with a correct filepath, for example as follows.
>> (This is a browser engine thing, can not be influenced by the widget.)
>> 
>> Example htmltext of the widget or text of the file "flower2b.html":
>> 
>> 
>> But it works if you set the URL of the widget to a (local) html-file that
>> has exactly this text as html (if 'flower.png' is in the same folder).
>> *** Then the htmltext of the widget is 'anchored' in the local file system
>> and can use a full or relative path.
>> 
>> BTW. To display an image "/home/jh/images/flower.png" from disk in a field
>> for example at size 80x60 at char 42:
>> 
>> 1. create an img "i1"
>> 2. set the filename of img "i1" to "/home/jh/images/flower.png"
>> 3. set the width of img "i1" to 80; set the height of img "i1" to 60
>> 4. set the imagesource of char 42 of fld 1 to "i1"
>> 
>>> James H. wrote:
 hh wrote:
 ... Or in case you meant simple HTML load (not canvas2d):
 
 where src = "full http-path to image" (local server is running)
 or src = "relative path to image"
>>> 
>>> Actually I am not loading a file from a server, I am setting the htmltext 
>>> of the widget.
>>> 
>>> The file I am loading is actually a markdown which I convert to xhtml using 
>>> mergMarkdownToXHTML.
>>> I then set the htmltext of the widget to this converted content.
>>> Now the text etc all display fine as I would expect, however the images 
>>> don't.
>>> The image tags in the markdown are correctly converted to  
>>> but obviously the path to the image file is not being correctly interpreted 
>>> by LC.
>>> If I was to display this in a text field (by setting its htmltext) I would 
>>> need to change the img tag's src attribute to include the "binfile:/" 
>>> prefix.
>>> When I do this the image displays as expected in the text field.
>>> 
>>> However, this displays the images at the size they exist on disk.
>>> 
>>> I notice the dictionary (which is using the browser widget) does not do 
>>> this. It actually scales the images down where required.
>>> So I thought rather than set the htmltext of the field, let me set the 
>>> htmltext of a browser widget.
>>> However none of the forms of the URL for the images that I have tried work.
>>> I do not know javascript and while I can sort of follow the logic behind 
>>> the guide display in the dictionary I can't fathom how it actually works.
>>> It is taking the markdown, converting it the a form of html and it 
>>> correctly shows the text and the images.
>>> I am trying to do this without the javascript.
>> 
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>> preferences:
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Re: Correct img format for browser widget.

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Hermann,

Is this part of the same-source policy for web pages? The HTML file and the 
image file needing to be in the same folder?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 16, 2017, at 5:45 AM, hh via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> You can have that without a (local) server when using a browser widget.
> 
> Although you can NOT display an image from disk without javascript by
> only setting the htmltext with a correct filepath, for example as follows.
> (This is a browser engine thing, can not be influenced by the widget.)
> 
> Example htmltext of the widget or text of the file "flower2b.html":
> 
> 
> But it works if you set the URL of the widget to a (local) html-file that
> has exactly this text as html (if 'flower.png' is in the same folder).
> *** Then the htmltext of the widget is 'anchored' in the local file system
> and can use a full or relative path.
> 
> BTW. To display an image "/home/jh/images/flower.png" from disk in a field
> for example at size 80x60 at char 42:
> 
> 1. create an img "i1"
> 2. set the filename of img "i1" to "/home/jh/images/flower.png"
> 3. set the width of img "i1" to 80; set the height of img "i1" to 60
> 4. set the imagesource of char 42 of fld 1 to "i1"
> 
>> James H. wrote:
>>> hh wrote:
>>> ... Or in case you meant simple HTML load (not canvas2d):
>>> 
>>> where src = "full http-path to image" (local server is running)
>>> or src = "relative path to image"
>> 
>> Actually I am not loading a file from a server, I am setting the htmltext of 
>> the widget.
>> 
>> The file I am loading is actually a markdown which I convert to xhtml using 
>> mergMarkdownToXHTML.
>> I then set the htmltext of the widget to this converted content.
>> Now the text etc all display fine as I would expect, however the images 
>> don't.
>> The image tags in the markdown are correctly converted to  
>> but obviously the path to the image file is not being correctly interpreted 
>> by LC.
>> If I was to display this in a text field (by setting its htmltext) I would 
>> need to change the img tag's src attribute to include the "binfile:/" prefix.
>> When I do this the image displays as expected in the text field.
>> 
>> However, this displays the images at the size they exist on disk.
>> 
>> I notice the dictionary (which is using the browser widget) does not do 
>> this. It actually scales the images down where required.
>> So I thought rather than set the htmltext of the field, let me set the 
>> htmltext of a browser widget.
>> However none of the forms of the URL for the images that I have tried work.
>> I do not know javascript and while I can sort of follow the logic behind the 
>> guide display in the dictionary I can't fathom how it actually works.
>> It is taking the markdown, converting it the a form of html and it correctly 
>> shows the text and the images.
>> I am trying to do this without the javascript.
> 
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Re: Correct img format for browser widget.

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

One other solution...

You can convert the image source to a data URL. You can construct the htmltext 
for the dataurl in LC, and replace the current image SRC information with 
dataURL SRC information. Then, when you set the htmltext of the browser widget, 
the images will show up without needing to access the local file from within 
the widget.



Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 16, 2017, at 8:53 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Hi James,
> 
> Can you post an example of your actual filepath?
> 
> With HTML, the first part of the path to the local disk usually looks like 
> this:
> 
> "file:///C:/users/pictures/mypicture.png"
> 
> LC should be able to give you the right full path to a document- but make 
> sure to try using the "file:///" prefix inside the HTML text of the browser 
> widget.
> 
> I have not tested this, but it has worked for me in the past.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 16, 2017, at 1:53 AM, James Hale via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> hh wrote:
>> 
>>> ... Or in case you meant simple HTML load (not canvas2d):
>>> 
>>> 
>>> where src = "full http-path to image" (local server is running)
>>> or src = "relative path to image"
>> 
>> Actually I am not loading a file from a server, I am setting the htmltext of 
>> the widget.
>> 
>> The file I am loading is actually a markdown which I convert to xhtml using 
>> mergMarkdownToXHTML.
>> I then set the htmltext of the widget to this converted content.
>> Now the text etc all display fine as I would expect, however the images 
>> don't.
>> The image tags in the markdown are correctly converted to  
>> but obviously the path to the image file is not being correctly interpreted 
>> by LC.
>> If I was to display this in a text field (by setting its htmltext) I would 
>> need to change the img tag's src attribute to include the "binfile:/" prefix.
>> When I do this the image displays as expected in the text field.
>> 
>> However, this displays the images at the size they exist on disk.
>> 
>> I notice the dictionary (which is using the browser widget) does not do 
>> this. It actually scales the images down where required.
>> So I thought rather than set the htmltext of the field, let me set the 
>> htmltext of a browser widget.
>> However none of the forms of the URL for the images that I have tried work.
>> I do not know javascript and while I can sort of follow the logic behind the 
>> guide display in the dictionary I can't fathom how it actually works.
>> It is taking the markdown, converting it the a form of html and it correctly 
>> shows the text and the images.
>> I am trying to do this without the javascript.
>> 
>> 
>> James
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
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> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 16, 2017, at 1:53 AM, James Hale via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> hh wrote:
>> 
>>> ... Or in case you meant simple HTML load (not canvas2d):
>>> 
>>> 
>>> where src = "full http-path to image" (local server is running)
>>> or src = "relative path to image"
>> 
>> Actually I am not loading a file from a server, I am setting the htmltext of 
>> the widget.
>> 
>> The file I am loading is actually a markdown which I convert to xhtml using 
>> mergMarkdownToXHTML.
>> I then set the htmltext of the widget to this converted content.
>> Now the text etc all display fine as I would expect, however the images 
>> don't.
>> The image tags in the markdown are correctly converted to  
>> but obviously the path to the image file is not being correctly interpreted 
>> by LC.
>> If I was to display this in a text field (by setting its htmltext) I would 
>> need to change the img tag's src attribute to include the "binfile:/" prefix.
>> When I do this the image displays as expected in the text field.
>> 
>> However, this displays the images at the size they exist on disk.
>> 
>> I notice the dictionary (which is using the browser widget) does not do 
>> this. It actually scales the images down where required.
>> So I thought rather than set the htmltext of the field, let me set the 
>> htmltext of a browser widget.
>> However none of the forms of the URL for the images that I have tried work.
>> I do not know javascript and while I can sort of follow the logic behind the 
>> guide display in the dictionary I can't fathom how it actually works.
>> It is taking the markdown, converting it the a form of html and it correctly 
>> shows the text and the images.
>> I am trying to do this without the javascript.
>> 
>> 
>> James
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> 

Re: Correct img format for browser widget.

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi James,

Can you post an example of your actual filepath?

With HTML, the first part of the path to the local disk usually looks like this:

"file:///C:/users/pictures/mypicture.png"

LC should be able to give you the right full path to a document- but make sure 
to try using the "file:///" prefix inside the HTML text of the browser widget.

I have not tested this, but it has worked for me in the past.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 16, 2017, at 1:53 AM, James Hale via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> hh wrote:
> 
>> ... Or in case you meant simple HTML load (not canvas2d):
>> 
>> 
>> where src = "full http-path to image" (local server is running)
>> or src = "relative path to image"
> 
> Actually I am not loading a file from a server, I am setting the htmltext of 
> the widget.
> 
> The file I am loading is actually a markdown which I convert to xhtml using 
> mergMarkdownToXHTML.
> I then set the htmltext of the widget to this converted content.
> Now the text etc all display fine as I would expect, however the images don't.
> The image tags in the markdown are correctly converted to  but 
> obviously the path to the image file is not being correctly interpreted by LC.
> If I was to display this in a text field (by setting its htmltext) I would 
> need to change the img tag's src attribute to include the "binfile:/" prefix.
> When I do this the image displays as expected in the text field.
> 
> However, this displays the images at the size they exist on disk.
> 
> I notice the dictionary (which is using the browser widget) does not do this. 
> It actually scales the images down where required.
> So I thought rather than set the htmltext of the field, let me set the 
> htmltext of a browser widget.
> However none of the forms of the URL for the images that I have tried work.
> I do not know javascript and while I can sort of follow the logic behind the 
> guide display in the dictionary I can't fathom how it actually works.
> It is taking the markdown, converting it the a form of html and it correctly 
> shows the text and the images.
> I am trying to do this without the javascript.
> 
> 
> James
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> preferences:
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Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 16, 2017, at 1:53 AM, James Hale via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> hh wrote:
> 
>> ... Or in case you meant simple HTML load (not canvas2d):
>> 
>> 
>> where src = "full http-path to image" (local server is running)
>> or src = "relative path to image"
> 
> Actually I am not loading a file from a server, I am setting the htmltext of 
> the widget.
> 
> The file I am loading is actually a markdown which I convert to xhtml using 
> mergMarkdownToXHTML.
> I then set the htmltext of the widget to this converted content.
> Now the text etc all display fine as I would expect, however the images don't.
> The image tags in the markdown are correctly converted to  but 
> obviously the path to the image file is not being correctly interpreted by LC.
> If I was to display this in a text field (by setting its htmltext) I would 
> need to change the img tag's src attribute to include the "binfile:/" prefix.
> When I do this the image displays as expected in the text field.
> 
> However, this displays the images at the size they exist on disk.
> 
> I notice the dictionary (which is using the browser widget) does not do this. 
> It actually scales the images down where required.
> So I thought rather than set the htmltext of the field, let me set the 
> htmltext of a browser widget.
> However none of the forms of the URL for the images that I have tried work.
> I do not know javascript and while I can sort of follow the logic behind the 
> guide display in the dictionary I can't fathom how it actually works.
> It is taking the markdown, converting it the a form of html and it correctly 
> shows the text and the images.
> I am trying to do this without the javascript.
> 
> 
> James
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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LiveCode crashing when I try to make a Mac standalone

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I have tried this with 8.1.5 rc2, 8.1.5, and 8.1.6 rc1.

LiveCode unexpectedly quits while making the standalone. Sometimes it gets far 
enough for the resulting app to function and sometimes it does not. The 
resulting app does not appear to have the icon attached.

What are some things I should be checking for?

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Refreshing question

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

You can access the online data through LC, either synchronously or 
asynchronously, and process it as you need in LC.

Then, you can send that data to the browser widget where you use Javascript to 
display it within the browser, by setting the innerHTML of a div or some other 
method.

In this way, your data will update seamlessly without having any sort of 
obnoxious page reload. A page reload might not be bad for a simple page, but 
can be disruptive for a complex page.

This method also minimizes the amount of data transferred, if that is an issue.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 12, 2017, at 12:23 PM, jbv via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, July 12, 2017 5:34 pm, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>> If the data is always the same, then I would update a page and have the
>> browser read it.
>> 
>> Are you looking to reload the whole page or just update a few data
>> points?
>> 
> 
> I really need to reload the xml data only, as the user will have the
> possibility to make some choices and changes on the page, and according
> to those changes, only some parts of the data will be displayed, or
> will be displayed in a different way...
> 
> Thanks
> jbv
> 
> 
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Re: Refreshing question

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

If the data is always the same, then I would update a page and have the browser 
read it.

Are you looking to reload the whole page or just update a few data points?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 12, 2017, at 11:11 AM, jbv via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi guys
> I have a web page that displays various informations
> that need to be updated/refreshed every minute.
> What is the best way to achieve that ?
> 
> 1- client side : a settimeout in a js script that
> triggers a LC script on a remote server via xmlhttp,
> and returns xml data that is analyzed and displayed;
> 
> 2- server side : a cron job triggers the script
> every minute and writes the output data in a
> specific location on the server; and then the
> web page reads that data via a simple LC script
> via an xmlhttp request...
> 
> I forgot to mention : the data are the same for
> anyone connected to the web page.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> jbv
> 
> 
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Server Basics Everyone Should Do

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Richard's comment about storing password hashes rather than actual
passwords has got me to thinking that there are probably several basic
server activities developers should do when creating a database. Doing
these things from the beginning will help avoid future headaches.

Despite a couple decades of coding experience, I have not done much with
servers, so I was only able to think of a few basics, but maybe you guys
could add to it, so that other LC developers can avoid these pitfalls?

- Store password hashes rather than passwords, using a proven, established
method of 1-way encrypting passwords.

- Work on a development server rather than the production server, and copy
the dev server stack over to the main stack when every thing is tested and
ready for an update.

- Store backups and old versions of the server stack, and server files,
somewhere other than the server, so that it is easy to recover if a hacker
should ransack the server or if some faulty piece of server-side code
sneaks through testing.

- Use indexing, with a scheme for increasing levels of indexing, to speed
up server searches as the record base grows.

- Regularly change admin passwords for the server, to deter hacking.


If anyone has other suggestions, please add them.

J

-- 
Do all things with love
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Re: Augmented Earth now on the App Store!

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thanks Richard - for sure I will implement this on the server side.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 11, 2017, at 3:50 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> jonathandlynch wrote:
> 
> > I do need to make password recovery an option.
> 
> Please don't.
> 
> Reset is good, but recovery means the password is stored in the system, which 
> is generally no longer done.  Instead only a hash of the password is stored, 
> which allows it to be reset but never recovered.
> 
> Peter Brett posted some notes here on hashing passwords a while back:
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2017-March/235091.html
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: Augmented Earth now on the App Store!

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

As it stands right now - they do not have to reenter their password. If they 
are logged in, they just change it and submit changes.

But, if they are logged they can see their password at any time.

The version I am submitting on Thursday makes the process more obvious.

I do need to make password recovery an option. This app has so many facets, I 
just have not gotten to that yet. I will do that before I have a promotable 
version.

I made the choice not to require email addresses, but we will see how long that 
lasts. If someone does not remember their password and did not enter an email 
address, they won't have a recovery mechanism.

The libertarian in me wants to impose a few restrictions as possible, but the 
realist in me thinks the trolls will become too problematic.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 11, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 11/07/2017 19:18, prothero--- via use-livecode wrote:
>> If a person has logged in, and wants to change their password, I don't see 
>> why they would be required to enter their old password, but they must know 
>> it, or,they wouldn't have been able to log in.
>> 
> That's done to prevent someone else changing the password if the screen has 
> been left unattended.
> 
> Alex.
> 
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Re: Augmented Earth now on the App Store!

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Lagi,

Thank you for your feedback!
I have changed it so that the initial mode does exactly what you said - it has 
two options that allow the user to choose to create a new user or sign in.

From there it only reveals the fields and buttons that are appropriate for 
whether the user is logging in, logged in, creating a new user, or editing 
their information.

I am going to update the app on iTunes on Thursday. The core of the app seems 
to be strong, but the user interface clearly was lacking :(

I spent a lot more time working on figuring out the 3D map - I am going to make 
the interface smooth before I do any promotion.

I think we have to require using the current password to change the password, 
to prevent hacking.

I made notes of you other observations as well.

Thank you :)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 11, 2017, at 11:32 AM, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jonathan,
> 
> I've tried to to login to the app from an iphone 6 ios 10.3.2
> 
> Ive restarted it a couple of time but always the same.
> 
> The Username and Password field asre white and enabled - I enter the
> details but no other field is enabled.
> 
> 
> Now some feedback.
> 
> My pet peeve (it happened on a subscription site 2 days ago so I'm still
> smarting from the experience ;-)
> 
> 1. I have never understood why anybody asks for the original password to
> change the one you have either forgotten or never received in the email.
> You are in good (bad?) company Skype does this but also ties you in nots
> with nobody to talk to.
> 
> 2. There are TOO many fields on the login page - there should be 2 Big
> Buttons at the top Create New Account ./ Sign In.
> 
> In fact off the top of my head, download the UDEMY app to see what I think
> is very simple and clear.
> 
> You can ask for all the rest on the second page but also have a SKIP if
> we/they don't want to enter the other info just yet.
> 
> 3. The app seems to know it has been run for a second time because the help
> screen doesnt come up - so again you can leave it logged in even if they
> exit the program.
> 
> 4. I would allow a user name and or an email address for logging in
> 
> 5. The (H) and (S) after the password and new password  have no clue that
> they are clickable the (S) on the New password is not enabled.
> That bit again is not obvious without clicking. The Words 
> would have fitted with no problem - and in a different colour or as a
> button.
> 
> 6. Why is the select user Icon showing when there is nothing to select?
> Would that show something after I put in my email or logged in in which
> case it just adds to the confusion. I pressed a few times to see if
> anything would load.
> 
> 7. You have Screen Name and Username - Until i looked to the Bottom where
> it says screen name I assumed the username was my login name (or is it?).
> 
> I was typing not my full name but a Username (1 word) - The Username (or
> Email) that is used to login should be together and First unless the first
> line says . It is not obvious if you expect a first name and
> last name - I presume it doesn't matter.
> 
> 8. To reiterate because this to me is the crux none of the other fields
> except the signup field need to be on the front page - "Show me the Banana"
> as Steve Krug says and "Don't Make me think" as Seth Godin says.
> 
> Regards Lagi
> 
> 
> On 7 July 2017 at 11:26, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Swami,
>> The interface confuses people about whether they are logging in or signing
>> up - I added some things that make that explicit and going to submit as
>> soon as I test on a few friends.
>> 
>> If you want to register, fill in the fields for a new user then click the
>> gear again to have the option to submit.
>> 
>> Clearly, I tested this in a biased way - not going to make that mistake
>> again.
>> 
>> Thanks for checking it out!
>> J
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:55 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Downloaded
>>> 
>>> initial user registration failed some how.. no clear feedback on why,
>> but now there is nothing more I can do…  anything I try leads to a  Error
>> incorect or inaccurate app user login credentials.
>>> 
>>> Going for the gear, choosing new user, enter creds. still get same
>> message.
>>> 
>>> I'm locked out of this app.
>>> 
>>> Also you need to trap for the return key in the name field.  use can hit

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

u can spend on to help with the 
> UX and milk that dialog about the UX as much as a I can.
> 
> I have two meetings on the latest beta this afternoon: one with a 
> professional health care lady and  her daughter who both test the app and 
> another with a 19year old brilliant university studen, who flew to Kauai just 
> to go on a "study retreat" for some crazy advance bio-genetic engineering 
> exams.. who is very open and articulate about  what they think about how it 
> should work. And I have on my schedule to talk to 4 different beta testers 
> remotely 
> 
> This doesn't happen by itself, you have to be super pro active. Once yet get 
> a team of volunteer testers who are engaged, even just 4-5, who communicate 
> well with you, you are good to go. But you might have to work through 100 
> different individuals before you find those 5.
> 
> That's my experience so far here… 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 7/7/17, 7:53 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Jonathan Lynch via 
> use-livecode" <use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of 
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>Thank you, Jacqueline 
> 
>Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 1:39 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> http://hyperactivesw.com/resources_testing.html
>> 
>> 
>>> On July 7, 2017 6:59:52 AM Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What steps do you guys follow for accurate testing when you don't have a 
>>> budget for proper official testing procedures?
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thanks Bill

I am thinking of reaching out to Trip Advisor after version 1.5, but focusing 
on high schools initially.

Trolls are a big concern. I have a lot ideas on dealing with that, including 
taking advantage of the self-correcting nature of social media. I am going to 
add in a rating system for reports and enable users to exclude poorly rated 
reports from appearing on their maps. I also want to have a class of users 
called documentarians, and enable users to see only reports from them. 
Documentarians will earn half the sponsorship income from their reports, so 
that will hopefully lead to a bunch of high- quality postings. I also have some 
ideas for a report review system.

All of that will be a start. If the trolling gets too be too much, I could 
resort to requiring that postings be reviewed before being being posted to 
certain categories.

I have some ideas on how to use trolls as an asset, but that is not fully 
thought out yet.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 6:24 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Jonathon:
> There are two learning processes going on. One is for the person testing the 
> software, the second is for you, learning what kinds of interface approaches 
> hang up new users. As you learn, by observing users, you will gain approaches 
> that minimize future user problems, and you will find that you will be able 
> to code in a way that avoids them.
> 
> If it were me, I would start small with the evaluation, and do it first by 
> informal observation, encouraging the user to think out loud as he/she uses 
> the app. You will get a feel for obstacles pretty quickly. You may run out of 
> test users quickly if you use many of them at once, so put as much common 
> sense as you can into changes that you make between new testers. If this is 
> unsuccessful, then you will have to expend more of your resources on testing.
> 
> Another good thing is to download and try other apps, checking to see how 
> their UI is set up. For example, almost every web delivered login page is the 
> same or similar. Why? Because they work. When numerous apps take a similar 
> approach, learn from them.
> 
> Good luck. Please post what you learn from your testing.
> 
> Another piece of advice (worth what it costs you??). Your application is 
> actually huge. Think Facebook and the other biggies. Maintaining it, should 
> it be successful, will be HUGE! Think trollers, spammers, whackos, etc, etc. 
> I had a site where I allowed anybody to create an account (but I had to 
> approve the account to activate it), and got loads of trial logins from 
> spammers and bots. Finally, I just disabled new accounts. I wonder if you 
> might want to consider narrowing the scope of your app, perhaps to a specific 
> education segment. Or, maybe a particular travel segment or for a specific 
> tour company. This would let you get your app out there and identify early 
> issues. A tour company might find a custom branded app that supports their 
> tour company to be appealing.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Best,
> Bill P.
> 
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 3:01 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> It does help, Scott - sounds like I should segment the testing process with 
>> a cycle, running through the test, observe, discuss, note cycle for each 
>> group of functionalities. Not unlike PM methodology.
>> 
>> Because I am looking to perfect and grow a single app over many years, I 
>> should be able to reliably group the functional areas for testing.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 5:56 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> It sounds like a little bit of direct, intensive observation is worth a lot 
>>> of testing a a distance.
>>> 
>>> Thanks Jeff
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 5:31 PM, Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Jonathan,
>>>> 
>>>> I second bill's approach of watching folks use the app. Years of 
>>>> educational software creation taught me this. I would always make friends 
>>>> with a local teacher that was into tech and they usually were happy to get 
>>>> a period to try something on the kids if it only took one period to do in 
>>>> the lab and was something they thought good first. Things were so self 
>>>> evident on what just worked and what crashed and burned. I really found 
>>>> that the designs that were forced (usually by marketing)

Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

It does help, Scott - sounds like I should segment the testing process with a 
cycle, running through the test, observe, discuss, note cycle for each group of 
functionalities. Not unlike PM methodology.

Because I am looking to perfect and grow a single app over many years, I should 
be able to reliably group the functional areas for testing.

Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 5:56 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> It sounds like a little bit of direct, intensive observation is worth a lot 
> of testing a a distance.
> 
> Thanks Jeff
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 5:31 PM, Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Jonathan,
>> 
>> I second bill's approach of watching folks use the app. Years of educational 
>> software creation taught me this. I would always make friends with a local 
>> teacher that was into tech and they usually were happy to get a period to 
>> try something on the kids if it only took one period to do in the lab and 
>> was something they thought good first. Things were so self evident on what 
>> just worked and what crashed and burned. I really found that the designs 
>> that were forced (usually by marketing) always crashed and burned, but the 
>> just good ideas that came out of what was it we were really trying to do 
>> somehow avoided most all the little design eddies that folks would get a 
>> little hung up by. But watching you could quickly see those eddies w.o 
>> having to do hard core testing. Sadly this is hard to do for free in a 
>> school anymore but hiring some kids or adults will do.
>> 
>> It's funny as I've found the same thing with exhibit design. I would always 
>> spend a few hours just watching folks after we finished an exhibit. I found 
>> it really invaluable to find the little issues and the big ones and you 
>> could see so easily what folks were getting and what they were not, what 
>> they were looking and and not looking at and how they felt about the exhibit 
>> in the whole. Many of these exhibits got very expensive summative 
>> evaluations and I found that my just watching observations were right in 
>> line with heavy testing and many times a bit more complete and useful for 
>> potentially fixing things and learning for the future.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 1:53 PM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jonathon,
>>> I feel your pain. In my case, I was initiated by my students and very 
>>> quickly learned how to ask the questions a newbie would ask. I also paid 
>>> small amounts to graduate students to get their feedback.
>>> 
>>> One of my very effective testers is my grandson, my wife, any of my 
>>> colleagues who might be enticed to use the app. Looking over the shoulder 
>>> while these folks use the app can be very illuminating. 
>>> 
>>> In summary:
>>> 1. Ask friends and relatives first.
>>> 2. Perhaps there would be volunteers from the live ode users group.
>>> 3. Hire high school students who might have a tech interest. Look over 
>>> their shoulders as they use the app and dialog to themselves. Actually 
>>> watching users is invaluable.
>>> 
>>> Good luck,
>>> Bill P
>> 
>> 
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Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

It sounds like a little bit of direct, intensive observation is worth a lot of 
testing a a distance.

Thanks Jeff

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 5:31 PM, Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Jonathan,
> 
> I second bill's approach of watching folks use the app. Years of educational 
> software creation taught me this. I would always make friends with a local 
> teacher that was into tech and they usually were happy to get a period to try 
> something on the kids if it only took one period to do in the lab and was 
> something they thought good first. Things were so self evident on what just 
> worked and what crashed and burned. I really found that the designs that were 
> forced (usually by marketing) always crashed and burned, but the just good 
> ideas that came out of what was it we were really trying to do somehow 
> avoided most all the little design eddies that folks would get a little hung 
> up by. But watching you could quickly see those eddies w.o having to do hard 
> core testing. Sadly this is hard to do for free in a school anymore but 
> hiring some kids or adults will do.
> 
> It's funny as I've found the same thing with exhibit design. I would always 
> spend a few hours just watching folks after we finished an exhibit. I found 
> it really invaluable to find the little issues and the big ones and you could 
> see so easily what folks were getting and what they were not, what they were 
> looking and and not looking at and how they felt about the exhibit in the 
> whole. Many of these exhibits got very expensive summative evaluations and I 
> found that my just watching observations were right in line with heavy 
> testing and many times a bit more complete and useful for potentially fixing 
> things and learning for the future.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jeff
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 1:53 PM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
>> 
>> Jonathon,
>> I feel your pain. In my case, I was initiated by my students and very 
>> quickly learned how to ask the questions a newbie would ask. I also paid 
>> small amounts to graduate students to get their feedback.
>> 
>> One of my very effective testers is my grandson, my wife, any of my 
>> colleagues who might be enticed to use the app. Looking over the shoulder 
>> while these folks use the app can be very illuminating. 
>> 
>> In summary:
>> 1. Ask friends and relatives first.
>> 2. Perhaps there would be volunteers from the live ode users group.
>> 3. Hire high school students who might have a tech interest. Look over their 
>> shoulders as they use the app and dialog to themselves. Actually watching 
>> users is invaluable.
>> 
>> Good luck,
>> Bill P
> 
> 
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Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Well, 3 out of 3 people who tested my app from this list got stuck signing up, 
but no one got stuck when I was there to prompt them to use the Universal 
Options button.

So, I have to discipline myself to keep my mouth shut. Everything depends on it.

This is my second time reading your article, Jacqueline- but this time I 
appreciate it much much more!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 4:09 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> That's a good summary. It's tedious sometimes but essential. The hardest part 
> by far is keeping your mouth shut. If I had a one-way mirror in a 
> sound-proofed room I'd use that. Another method might be to have the user 
> share their screen and turn off your microphone, but screen sharing is not 
> easy on mobile apps.
> 
> On 7/7/17 2:49 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>>> From reading these, it looks like my basic steps are these:
>> 1. Make changes to the app
>> 2. Test for usability myself a dozen times, trying things in different 
>> orders  and in different ways to make it fail
>> 3. Have my testers, which is really about 3 family members, test it to make 
>> it fail
>> No coaching, no hints
>> Directly observe their tests very closely
>> Make notes on any moments of confusion, even if they minor
>> Interview them, asking what they were thinking at each step
>> Adjust the help file and add hints - and test those as well
>> 4. Fix as needed and retest
>> 5. Publish
>> 6. Try to find virgin testers for next time, varying in age and mindset
>> Does that sound about right?
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
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Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

>From reading these, it looks like my basic steps are these:

1. Make changes to the app

2. Test for usability myself a dozen times, trying things in different orders  
and in different ways to make it fail

3. Have my testers, which is really about 3 family members, test it to make it 
fail

No coaching, no hints

Directly observe their tests very closely

Make notes on any moments of confusion, even if they minor

Interview them, asking what they were thinking at each step

Adjust the help file and add hints - and test those as well

4. Fix as needed and retest

5. Publish

6. Try to find virgin testers for next time, varying in age and mindset

Does that sound about right?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 1:53 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Thank you, Jacqueline 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 7, 2017, at 1:39 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> http://hyperactivesw.com/resources_testing.html
>> 
>> 
>>> On July 7, 2017 6:59:52 AM Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What steps do you guys follow for accurate testing when you don't have a 
>>> budget for proper official testing procedures?
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thank you, Jacqueline 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 1:39 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> http://hyperactivesw.com/resources_testing.html
> 
> 
>> On July 7, 2017 6:59:52 AM Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> What steps do you guys follow for accurate testing when you don't have a 
>> budget for proper official testing procedures?
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
> 
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Re: iOS Browser Widget and PDFs? SOLVED

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I think you are safe using special folder path "documents" on all platforms.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 1:00 PM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> FWIW…
> 
> The issue was related to the specialFolderPath. When I was testing this 
> aspect of the app I had it point to specialFolderPath(“Desktop").  Naturally, 
> on the iPad I changed it to specialFolderPath(“engine”) thinking that would 
> cover the iOS app. Nope. Apparently you can’t save files (pdfs) to the 
> “engine” folder.
> 
> I changed it to specialFolderpath(“Documents”) and everything seems to be 
> good now.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> John Patten
> SUSD
> 
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 3:32 PM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I had it “Answer" me the path to the pdf in the iOS app on the iPad and it 
>> reports back:
>> 
>> /var/containerns/Bundle?Application?CA0B0721-80F7-4B24-92C4-0B156D/PTP 
>> System.app/Teacher Laptop Replacement Quote (19).dpf
>> 
>> This should be the path that the - set url of the widget “quoteBrowser” - is 
>> set to on the , correct?
>> 
>> Thank you!
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 3:19 PM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All!
>>> 
>>> I have little app that I’m using track our department quotes/purchases etc. 
>>> It pulls the info out of a mySQl db. I have an issue with browser widget 
>>> displaying the pdf quotes on iOS. The app pulls the PDF out of mysql via:
>>> Put "SELECT attachment FROM quotes WHERE name ='" & jQuote & "'" into btSQL
>>> 
>>> put revDataFromQuery(tab, cr, gConnectionID, btSQL) into btData
>>> 
>>> put base64Decode(btData) into vtemp
>>> 
>>> put specialFolderPath("engine") & "/" & jQuote into vPath
>>> 
>>> open file vPath for binary write
>>> 
>>> write vtemp to file vPath
>>> 
>>> close file vPath
>>> 
>>> I then have to replace the spaces in the name of the pdf file with a:
>>> 
>>> replace space with "%20" in vPath
>>> set the url of widget "quoteBrowser" of cd id 1067 to "file:" & vPath
>>> 
>>> replace "%20" with space in vPath
>>> 
>>> set the script button "Print Quote" of cd id 1067 to "on mouseUp" & return 
>>> & "Launch url " & quote & "file:" & vPath & quote & return & "end mouseUp"
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Again this works fine on my Mac and on the iOS simulator. The PDF shows up 
>>> just fine in the browser widget. 
>>> 
>>> However, when I build the app, and try it out on he actual iPad, it does 
>>> not. I just get the blank white widget.
>>> 
>>> Any suggestions on what I might try?
>>> 
>>> Thank you!
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Re: Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thank you, Devin!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Devin Asay via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Jonathan,
> 
> Here’s a link to my lesson outline when I teach my students about conducting 
> user evaluations of software. It’s still a bit sparse and needs to be fleshed 
> out, but I include some links to a couple of really good articles on 
> evaluation techniques, including one by our very own Jacque Gay.
> 
> http://livecode.byu.edu/userevals/UserEvals.php
> 
> Devin
> 
> On Jul 7, 2017, at 8:29 AM, prothero--- via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> Jonathon,
> I feel your pain. In my case, I was initiated by my students and very quickly 
> learned how to ask the questions a newbie would ask. I also paid small 
> amounts to graduate students to get their feedback.
> 
> One of my very effective testers is my grandson, my wife, any of my 
> colleagues who might be enticed to use the app. Looking over the shoulder 
> while these folks use the app can be very illuminating.
> 
> In summary:
> 1. Ask friends and relatives first.
> 2. Perhaps there would be volunteers from the live ode users group.
> 3. Hire high school students who might have a tech interest. Look over their 
> shoulders as they use the app and dialog to themselves. Actually watching 
> users is invaluable.
> 
> Good luck,
> Bill P
> 
> 
> William Prothero
> http://es.earthednet.org
> 
> On Jul 7, 2017, at 4:57 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I think my experience of the last two days has taught me something - I have 
> been micro-coaching my friends when they try my app.
> 
> Just the littlest input, like saying "oh, just press the button again to 
> submit" comes so easily and, apparently mucks up testing entirely.
> 
> While the harm will be minimal in this case, I can see where it could be 
> disastrous for a large company.
> 
> What steps do you guys follow for accurate testing when you don't have a 
> budget for proper official testing procedures?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
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> 
> Devin Asay
> Director
> Office of Digital Humanities
> Brigham Young University
> 
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Re: Google Static Maps Demo Available

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hey guys - just a quick warning about google. Read their TOS very carefully 
before building an app around their service. One can find several horror 
stories online about Google cancelling contracts without really explaining why.

Bill's stack should work well with a little bit of adaptation for bing maps and 
OSM providers.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 07/06/2017 10:33 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
>> Mark:
>> Yes, you’ve done it all.
> 
> Cool. It's working as expected then.
> 
> It was intended just to demo the display of a Google Static Map and show how 
> to get the corners of the image so the lat/lon of the mouse position could be 
> calculated. To do that, I had to rely oh Hermann’s expertise with Javascript 
> to convert a posted solution to LCS. I spent time carefully checking that the 
> corners calculation agreed with the box plotted by the maps api. The map 
> image is also slightly stretched horizontally (to fit my own project map 
> size) and I had to do some tweaking to the corners code to make that work.
>> The links to the Google API get the programmer to the web site that tells 
>> how to display streets, display a map of a particular city or other feature, 
>> add symbols, etc. For those who need to do that, this should help. It’s 
>> pretty trivial to change the URL params, so I felt I could leave that to the 
>> user. Actually, the entire thing is pretty trivial, but it did take me quite 
>> a bit of time, thrashing through the details because I’d never worked with 
>> the Google maps api, so perhaps others might find it useful.
>> My project will continue and plot data on a captured image, scroll the map, 
>> etc. I hadn’t planned on including that part in the demo, but could, if 
>> requested.
> 
> The demo doesn't seem to be trivial at all, especially looking at the 
> libraries involved - you've put a lot of work into that.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
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Biased testing and micro-coaching

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I think my experience of the last two days has taught me something - I have 
been micro-coaching my friends when they try my app.

Just the littlest input, like saying "oh, just press the button again to 
submit" comes so easily and, apparently mucks up testing entirely.

While the harm will be minimal in this case, I can see where it could be 
disastrous for a large company.

What steps do you guys follow for accurate testing when you don't have a budget 
for proper official testing procedures?

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Augmented Earth now on the App Store!

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Swami,
The interface confuses people about whether they are logging in or signing up - 
I added some things that make that explicit and going to submit as soon as I 
test on a few friends.

If you want to register, fill in the fields for a new user then click the gear 
again to have the option to submit.

Clearly, I tested this in a biased way - not going to make that mistake again.
 
Thanks for checking it out!
J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:55 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Downloaded
> 
> initial user registration failed some how.. no clear feedback on why, but now 
> there is nothing more I can do…  anything I try leads to a  Error incorect or 
> inaccurate app user login credentials.
> 
> Going for the gear, choosing new user, enter creds. still get same message. 
> 
> I'm locked out of this app.
> 
> Also you need to trap for the return key in the name field.  use can hit 
> return and a cr is added and the name he entered disappears on line 1 above.
> 
> you need to put in that field
> 
> on return
> # do nothing, and do not pass the return key in the name field… or send the 
> cursor down to the Password field.
> end return
> 
> or something like that.. I have to look … 
> 
> but, looks interesting, I'm impressed by the level of community activity you 
> expect to generate/support… looks "scary" to me unless you have a big staff. 
> I've been thinking about similar things for our new app, but everytime I shy 
> away… 
> 
> BR
> 
> On 7/6/17, 4:01 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Jonathan Lynch via 
> use-livecode" <use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com on behalf of 
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>If you get a chance, please check it out. This is just a soft launch, but 
> I am excited to have it out there. I won't start heavy promotion until 
> version 1.5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Google Static Maps Demo Available

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thanks for this, Bill

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 8:31 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Folks:
> Thanks to help from Hermann, I am sharing a demo stack that accesses the 
> Google Static Maps API to display maps. This API allows me to display a 
> terrain map, and determine the lat/lon values of any point on the map, I will 
> take a snapshot of the map image and draw symbols on it that will represent 
> geophysical data. 
> 
> You can download the demo at:
> http://earthlearningsolutions.org/google-static-maps-demo/ 
> 
> 
> I hope you find it useful. 
> Bill P
> 
> William A. Prothero
> http://earthlearningsolution.org/
> 
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Re: Augmented Earth now on the App Store!

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Here is how I have addressed the initial login issue - not going to do constant 
updates, fear not.

I made it so that when it starts out (in initial mode) it presents a Create 
User button at the top with a field right after it that says you can either 
create a new user with that button or login an existing user below.

If they opt to create a new user, the fields unlock and a Submit button becomes 
visible at the bottom.

The button and field for creating a new user are only visible, and only take up 
space, in the initial mode.

The Submit button is only visible in the CreatingNewUser mode.

It is not too cluttered and seems intuitive to me. My intuition is not always 
spot on, so I am going to test it out on my victims, er... friends and family, 
before I submit the update to the App Store.

Thanks again - these were valuable observations.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 6:30 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Hi Sean,
> I am fixing the sign up process right now, and going to submit an update 
> tonight - in the meantime you can press the Universal button (bottom right) 
> again to submit, but I am also adding a submit button at the bottom of the 
> form to avoid confusion. 
> 
> It must be hanging up trying get the HTML text for the title space at the 
> top. I will change it to get that HTML text internally and then do an 
> asynchronous load to get the HTML text from my website and load it in 
> whenever it can get it.
> 
> I will also work on the button sizes.
> Thank you for the time you put in on this!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 6:16 PM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Jonathan,
>> 
>> I tried a shut down and reopen. I needed to let it sit on the open page for
>> a good 5mins or so and finally displayed the 'Hello' prompt. Closing it
>> down and restarting it then took only 3-4 seconds after the loading page.
>> 
>> In the registration page the 'Finish' button is off the bottom of the page
>> and I can't scroll to it. -
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/b49nqjutuv236wz/IMG_DC61C94076A8-1.jpeg?dl=0
>> 
>> Also on the registration page, the other fields are greyed out so I can't
>> create a profile. Hitting return from the password (h) (what does h and
>> s mean?) field comes up with '[Error] Incorrect or inactive app user login
>> credentials'.
>> 
>> The text in the Done button is selectable as it all of the other text. It's
>> also smaller than the iOS recommended size for fingers (44x44 pixels lores,
>> 88 (=44pts) retina). See https://designcode.io/iosdesign-guidelines down at
>> Buttons and Font Sizes
>> 
>> Sean Cole
>> *Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
>> www.pidigital.co.uk
>> +44(1634)402193
>> +44(7702)116447
>> 'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is no
>> box!'
>> 'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside of,
>> but it is yourself!'
>> 
>> eMail Ts & Cs <http://pidigital.co.uk/emailTCs.rtf>   Pi Digital
>> Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609
>> 
>> On 6 July 2017 at 15:36, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Well shoot - thanks Sean
>>> 
>>> If you shut it down and reopen, it will probably go, but I need to figure
>>> that one out
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Jonathan,
>>>> 
>>>> Well done on getting this to store. I've just downloaded to my iPhone6
>>>> running iOS11b3 and it hangs on the opening page with the title and
>>> globe.
>>>> It doesn't appear to go beyond this just yet. It may be just that I'm on
>>> a
>>>> beta OS but thought I'd let you know.
>>>> 
>>>> All the best
>>>> 
>>>> Sean Cole
>>>> *Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> eMail Ts & Cs <http://pidigital.co.uk/emailTCs.rtf> Pi Digital
>>>> Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609
>>>> 
>>>> On 6 July 2017 at 15:01, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Version 1 of Augmented Earth is now live on the A

Re: Augmented Earth now on the App Store!

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Sean,
 I am fixing the sign up process right now, and going to submit an update 
tonight - in the meantime you can press the Universal button (bottom right) 
again to submit, but I am also adding a submit button at the bottom of the form 
to avoid confusion. 

It must be hanging up trying get the HTML text for the title space at the top. 
I will change it to get that HTML text internally and then do an asynchronous 
load to get the HTML text from my website and load it in whenever it can get it.

I will also work on the button sizes.
 Thank you for the time you put in on this!


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 6:16 PM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jonathan,
> 
> I tried a shut down and reopen. I needed to let it sit on the open page for
> a good 5mins or so and finally displayed the 'Hello' prompt. Closing it
> down and restarting it then took only 3-4 seconds after the loading page.
> 
> In the registration page the 'Finish' button is off the bottom of the page
> and I can't scroll to it. -
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/b49nqjutuv236wz/IMG_DC61C94076A8-1.jpeg?dl=0
> 
> Also on the registration page, the other fields are greyed out so I can't
> create a profile. Hitting return from the password (h) (what does h and
> s mean?) field comes up with '[Error] Incorrect or inactive app user login
> credentials'.
> 
> The text in the Done button is selectable as it all of the other text. It's
> also smaller than the iOS recommended size for fingers (44x44 pixels lores,
> 88 (=44pts) retina). See https://designcode.io/iosdesign-guidelines down at
> Buttons and Font Sizes
> 
> Sean Cole
> *Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
> www.pidigital.co.uk
> +44(1634)402193
> +44(7702)116447
> 'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is no
> box!'
> 'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside of,
> but it is yourself!'
> 
> eMail Ts & Cs <http://pidigital.co.uk/emailTCs.rtf>   Pi Digital
> Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609
> 
> On 6 July 2017 at 15:36, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Well shoot - thanks Sean
>> 
>> If you shut it down and reopen, it will probably go, but I need to figure
>> that one out
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Jonathan,
>>> 
>>> Well done on getting this to store. I've just downloaded to my iPhone6
>>> running iOS11b3 and it hangs on the opening page with the title and
>> globe.
>>> It doesn't appear to go beyond this just yet. It may be just that I'm on
>> a
>>> beta OS but thought I'd let you know.
>>> 
>>> All the best
>>> 
>>> Sean Cole
>>> *Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
>>> 
>>> 
>>> eMail Ts & Cs <http://pidigital.co.uk/emailTCs.rtf> Pi Digital
>>> Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609
>>> 
>>> On 6 July 2017 at 15:01, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> Version 1 of Augmented Earth is now live on the Apple App Store :)
>>>> 
>>>> If you get a chance, please check it out. This is just a soft launch,
>> but
>>>> I am excited to have it out there. I won't start heavy promotion until
>>>> version 1.5.
>>>> 
>>>> I will be posting a map-only version on Livecode Share for explaining
>> how
>>>> to do 3D webgl Earth maps in LC, prior to my presentation at the
>> September
>>>> LC Global conference.
>>>> 
>>>> All constructive feedback is welcome, I have much to improve.
>>>> 
>>>> A big thanks to everyone here for all the helpful tips :)
>>>> 
>>>> Here is the link, for iPhone/iPad users:
>>>> 
>>>> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/augmented-earth/id1252486908?ls=1=8
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> ___
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>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> 

Re: Augmented Earth now on the App Store!

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

My wife just suggested a demo as well. Great minds thinking alike.

So - yes, I can do that. I am inclined to make an instructional video and put 
it on YouTube, though not until anything embarrassing is gone from the app. I 
used to work in TV and I have friends with high-quality gear that would help me 
out for cheap.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 5:17 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill
> 
> I am doing a completely quiet launch for 1.0 to avoid negative reviews. I 
> just did not have a mechanism to do a bunch of beta tests - and I really did 
> not realize how confusing it would be at first.
> 
> By 1.1, I should be okay to start reaching out to local high schools - my 
> first target users.
> 
> I agree this could be great for education. I plan to work with teachers to 
> build templates for a variety of lesson plans. I also plan to create a child 
> mode for young users by version 1.5.
> 
> I agree about the user login experience - I am going to stay up late tonight 
> working on that and get it cleaned up.
> 
> Pretty much everything is available through the Universal button. After you 
> fill in the form, you press the universal button again to have the submit 
> option.
> 
> This method appears to be confusing though, so I will have to also include 
> some of those buttons I had removed.
> 
> They were there previously, but my interface was so cluttered I might have 
> swung too far to the opposite side.
> 
> Thanks so much for your time on this,
> 
> J
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 4:43 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Jonathon:
>> I clicked the gear icon and chose “Enter new User”. I entered my info, but 
>> what then? No button showed to accept my input or register me.
>> 
>> So…. I suggest you revamp/rethink your login system. It’s very important 
>> because it’s the first thing a new user sees and if she is frustrated, you 
>> are sunk. You may even want to consider having a “browse” mode where a user 
>> can see certain content without creating an account. Fields that aren’t 
>> needed should not be shown or made dark grey. It confuses the user.
>> 
>> I suggest you have two buttons that are prominent on your opening page, in 
>> addition to your nice graphics. One says something like “New User”, the 
>> other “Log In” with text explaining “Log In” means you have an account. 
>> After the system accepts the information, you get a page that verifies the  
>> login was ok, and invites you to update your profile. BTW, the profile 
>> should ask specific questions, but be optional. Privacy policy? Or you could 
>> just take the successfully logged in user to the first page you want them to 
>> see and let the gear icon take them to their account. 
>> 
>> I do think some kind of “tour” or “browse” type mode would be a good idea, 
>> though.
>> 
>> This gets me thinking about how an application like this might be education 
>> oriented. Wouldn’t it be great if students from schools around the world 
>> could interact and post pictures and discuss science topics? It would have 
>> to have strong safety so only school children and their teachers would be 
>> online. Lessons of international interest could be available or posted by 
>> teachers. Students interact to see how a particular phenomenon affects their 
>> locale. Just thinking aloud. I have a colleague in Malawi that teaches 
>> geography, and she is very interested in teaching her students about solar 
>> cooking. A great subject for her, she sent me a picture of her cooking maize 
>> over a wood fire. 
>> 
>> Good luck with your app. I’m looking forward to new revisions. Also, have 
>> you thought about getting reviews before you put it on the app store? You 
>> want to avoid getting a bad reputation when you are just debugging and 
>> testing user experience. 
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 11:57 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jonathon:
>>> A common solutionfor this is to have two buttons. One says: “I am a new 
>>> first-time User” and the other one says: “I have an account. Log me in.” 
>>> That would avoid the confusion.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I think I am going to add a first-load script that explici

Re: Augmented Earth now on the App Store!

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Bill

I am doing a completely quiet launch for 1.0 to avoid negative reviews. I just 
did not have a mechanism to do a bunch of beta tests - and I really did not 
realize how confusing it would be at first.

By 1.1, I should be okay to start reaching out to local high schools - my first 
target users.

I agree this could be great for education. I plan to work with teachers to 
build templates for a variety of lesson plans. I also plan to create a child 
mode for young users by version 1.5.

I agree about the user login experience - I am going to stay up late tonight 
working on that and get it cleaned up.

Pretty much everything is available through the Universal button. After you 
fill in the form, you press the universal button again to have the submit 
option.

This method appears to be confusing though, so I will have to also include some 
of those buttons I had removed.

They were there previously, but my interface was so cluttered I might have 
swung too far to the opposite side.

Thanks so much for your time on this,

J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 4:43 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Jonathon:
> I clicked the gear icon and chose “Enter new User”. I entered my info, but 
> what then? No button showed to accept my input or register me.
> 
> So…. I suggest you revamp/rethink your login system. It’s very important 
> because it’s the first thing a new user sees and if she is frustrated, you 
> are sunk. You may even want to consider having a “browse” mode where a user 
> can see certain content without creating an account. Fields that aren’t 
> needed should not be shown or made dark grey. It confuses the user.
> 
> I suggest you have two buttons that are prominent on your opening page, in 
> addition to your nice graphics. One says something like “New User”, the other 
> “Log In” with text explaining “Log In” means you have an account. After the 
> system accepts the information, you get a page that verifies the  login was 
> ok, and invites you to update your profile. BTW, the profile should ask 
> specific questions, but be optional. Privacy policy? Or you could just take 
> the successfully logged in user to the first page you want them to see and 
> let the gear icon take them to their account. 
> 
> I do think some kind of “tour” or “browse” type mode would be a good idea, 
> though.
> 
> This gets me thinking about how an application like this might be education 
> oriented. Wouldn’t it be great if students from schools around the world 
> could interact and post pictures and discuss science topics? It would have to 
> have strong safety so only school children and their teachers would be 
> online. Lessons of international interest could be available or posted by 
> teachers. Students interact to see how a particular phenomenon affects their 
> locale. Just thinking aloud. I have a colleague in Malawi that teaches 
> geography, and she is very interested in teaching her students about solar 
> cooking. A great subject for her, she sent me a picture of her cooking maize 
> over a wood fire. 
> 
> Good luck with your app. I’m looking forward to new revisions. Also, have you 
> thought about getting reviews before you put it on the app store? You want to 
> avoid getting a bad reputation when you are just debugging and testing user 
> experience. 
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 11:57 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Jonathon:
>> A common solutionfor this is to have two buttons. One says: “I am a new 
>> first-time User” and the other one says: “I have an account. Log me in.” 
>> That would avoid the confusion.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think I am going to add a first-load script that explicitly asks the user 
>>> if they want to create a new login, and explain they can do this at any 
>>> time through the Universal Button. 
>>> 
>>> I think I am going to change the image for the Universal button as well. 
>>> although not sure exactly to what.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 1:17 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Bill
>>>> 
>>>> If you click the gear button, it will let you create a new user.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> My daughter just made the same observation - I will find a way to make it 
>>>> obvious.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> 
>>>

Re: Augmented Earth now on the App Store!

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I think I am going to add a first-load script that explicitly asks the user if 
they want to create a new login, and explain they can do this at any time 
through the Universal Button. 

I think I am going to change the image for the Universal button as well. 
although not sure exactly to what.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 1:17 PM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill
> 
> If you click the gear button, it will let you create a new user.
> 
> 
> My daughter just made the same observation - I will find a way to make it 
> obvious.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 12:36 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Jonathon:
>> Impressive app. You’re going to have fun keeping control of the trollers. 
>> Anyway, I downloaded it and opened it on my iPad Pro, latest distro of iOS. 
>> I got the main screen, then it sent me to the registration screen, where I 
>> entered a userName and password. Below the “Password” field, the “New 
>> Password” field and all those below it stayed greyed out. I could go no 
>> further. If I pressed “Return” after my password entry, it tried to register 
>> me but I got an “Invalid credentials dialog.
>> 
>> I quit the app, opened it again, and got the same behavior.
>> 
>> I’m looking forward to seeing this final app. Looks very ambitious, and 
>> should be a winner. Look out, FaceBook!
>> Best,
>> Bill P
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 7:01 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> 
>>> Version 1 of Augmented Earth is now live on the Apple App Store :)
>>> 
>>> If you get a chance, please check it out. This is just a soft launch, but I 
>>> am excited to have it out there. I won't start heavy promotion until 
>>> version 1.5.
>>> 
>>> I will be posting a map-only version on Livecode Share for explaining how 
>>> to do 3D webgl Earth maps in LC, prior to my presentation at the September 
>>> LC Global conference.
>>> 
>>> All constructive feedback is welcome, I have much to improve.
>>> 
>>> A big thanks to everyone here for all the helpful tips :)
>>> 
>>> Here is the link, for iPhone/iPad users:
>>> 
>>> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/augmented-earth/id1252486908?ls=1=8
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
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Re: Augmented Earth now on the App Store!

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Bill

If you click the gear button, it will let you create a new user.


My daughter just made the same observation - I will find a way to make it 
obvious.

Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 12:36 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Jonathon:
> Impressive app. You’re going to have fun keeping control of the trollers. 
> Anyway, I downloaded it and opened it on my iPad Pro, latest distro of iOS. I 
> got the main screen, then it sent me to the registration screen, where I 
> entered a userName and password. Below the “Password” field, the “New 
> Password” field and all those below it stayed greyed out. I could go no 
> further. If I pressed “Return” after my password entry, it tried to register 
> me but I got an “Invalid credentials dialog.
> 
> I quit the app, opened it again, and got the same behavior.
> 
> I’m looking forward to seeing this final app. Looks very ambitious, and 
> should be a winner. Look out, FaceBook!
> Best,
> Bill P
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 7:01 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> Version 1 of Augmented Earth is now live on the Apple App Store :)
>> 
>> If you get a chance, please check it out. This is just a soft launch, but I 
>> am excited to have it out there. I won't start heavy promotion until version 
>> 1.5.
>> 
>> I will be posting a map-only version on Livecode Share for explaining how to 
>> do 3D webgl Earth maps in LC, prior to my presentation at the September LC 
>> Global conference.
>> 
>> All constructive feedback is welcome, I have much to improve.
>> 
>> A big thanks to everyone here for all the helpful tips :)
>> 
>> Here is the link, for iPhone/iPad users:
>> 
>> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/augmented-earth/id1252486908?ls=1=8
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
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> preferences:
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Re: Augmented Earth now on the App Store!

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Well shoot - thanks Sean

If you shut it down and reopen, it will probably go, but I need to figure that 
one out

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jonathan,
> 
> Well done on getting this to store. I've just downloaded to my iPhone6
> running iOS11b3 and it hangs on the opening page with the title and globe.
> It doesn't appear to go beyond this just yet. It may be just that I'm on a
> beta OS but thought I'd let you know.
> 
> All the best
> 
> Sean Cole
> *Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
> 
> 
> eMail Ts & Cs <http://pidigital.co.uk/emailTCs.rtf>   Pi Digital
> Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609
> 
> On 6 July 2017 at 15:01, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> Version 1 of Augmented Earth is now live on the Apple App Store :)
>> 
>> If you get a chance, please check it out. This is just a soft launch, but
>> I am excited to have it out there. I won't start heavy promotion until
>> version 1.5.
>> 
>> I will be posting a map-only version on Livecode Share for explaining how
>> to do 3D webgl Earth maps in LC, prior to my presentation at the September
>> LC Global conference.
>> 
>> All constructive feedback is welcome, I have much to improve.
>> 
>> A big thanks to everyone here for all the helpful tips :)
>> 
>> Here is the link, for iPhone/iPad users:
>> 
>> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/augmented-earth/id1252486908?ls=1=8
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ___
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>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
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Augmented Earth now on the App Store!

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi everyone,

Version 1 of Augmented Earth is now live on the Apple App Store :)

If you get a chance, please check it out. This is just a soft launch, but I am 
excited to have it out there. I won't start heavy promotion until version 1.5.

I will be posting a map-only version on Livecode Share for explaining how to do 
3D webgl Earth maps in LC, prior to my presentation at the September LC Global 
conference.

All constructive feedback is welcome, I have much to improve.

A big thanks to everyone here for all the helpful tips :)

Here is the link, for iPhone/iPad users:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/augmented-earth/id1252486908?ls=1=8

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Codesigning a Mac desktop version

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I will do that - thanks Trevor

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 8:43 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 3:16 AM Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I tried using Trevor Devore' codesigning stack, which is a very nice
>> contribution to the community. I am getting a complaint about unsealed
>> contents present in the bundle root.
>> 
>> Does anyone know what the issue is?
> 
> 
> Look around in bundles for any manifest.xml files. If you find any delete
> them. I know I've seen problems with manifest files included in LC
> externals in the past.
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> 
>> 
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Re: AW: can I lock screen over more than one handler?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Tiemo, have you tried using a browser widget instead?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 6:05 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I wonder if you cannot manage to lock the screen over more than one handler 
> by calling
> the second handler from within the first one?
> 
> For instance:
> 
> on mouseDown
>   set the lockscreen to true
>   put "screen locked"
> send "mouseStillDown" to me
>   wait 10 ticks
>   set the lockscreen to false
> end mouseDown
> 
> on mouseStillDown
>   put "pigs have wings"
> end mouseStillDown
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
>> On 7/6/17 12:49 pm, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode wrote:
>> I think I now tried all combinations with a separate frameless browser for 
>> the player object, with and without locking the screen and locking the 
>> mesages, but the behavior of the player object and it's control over the 
>> main window frame obviously can't be controlled by LiveCode (at least not by 
>> me).
>> Am I right that I don't have control over the colour of the main window 
>> frame? Perhaps I'll find a tweak tool for Windows 8, to give it the look & 
>> feel of Windows 10, which I can recommend my customers, where the flickering 
>> isn't that distracting.
>> Tiemo
>> 
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag 
>> von Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Juli 2017 18:46
>> An: 'How to use LiveCode' 
>> Cc: Tiemo Hollmann TB 
>> Betreff: AW: can I lock screen over more than one handler?
>> 
>> Hi Randy,
>> it worked out that the issue wasn't related to the design of two handlers 
>> and it was only the single statement for setting the filename to the player 
>> object in one handler. But it seems, I can't suppress the loosing and 
>> reassigning of the focus of the main window when setting the filename. With 
>> and without locking the screen.
>> What I didn't tried yet is placing the player object into an own window 
>> without title bar and frame. I don't know, how that looks on Windows 8, but 
>> perhaps I can keep the flickering off the main window with that approach.
>> Tiemo
>> 
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag 
>> von Randy Hengst via use-livecode
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Juli 2017 17:56
>> An: How to use LiveCode 
>> Cc: Randy Hengst 
>> Betreff: Re: can I lock screen over more than one handler?
>> 
>> It’s been a long time since I’ve messed with player objects… but what about 
>> putting both of the handlers into a “run” handler:
>> 
>> on runMyHandlers
>>LOCK SCREEN
>>handler1
>>handler2
>>UNLOCK Screen
>> end runMyHandlers
>> 
>>> On Jul 5, 2017, at 10:42 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jonathan had a tricky idea to work with two player objects switching
>>> between them with hiding and showing them and doing the assignment of
>>> the filename with the currently hidden player, even with locking the
>>> screen at the beginning of the handler.
>>> It's a pitty, but the flickering of the whole window frame keeps the same.
>>> The directShow video engine must be somehow totally dominant.
>>> Any other tricky idea?
>>> Tiemo
>>> 
>>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>>> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im
>>> Auftrag von Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode
>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Juli 2017 15:57
>>> An: 'How to use LiveCode' 
>>> Cc: Tiemo Hollmann TB 
>>> Betreff: AW: can I lock screen over more than one handler?
>>> 
>>> Thanks Jonathan, Trevor and Sean for your comments.
>>> 
>>> Meanwhile I could drill down my "flickering" problem (post from
>>> yesterday) to an unexpected command.
>>> In one of those handlers I "set the filename of player "myVideoPlayer"
>>> to tFile". This command withdraws the focus from the window and passes
>>> it back after some milliseconds. On my Win 10 machine with a white
>>> window title bar I almost can't see it, but on Win 8 with the standard
>>> violet title bar it is an ugly flickering, each time I set the
>>> filename (which happens very frequently in a quiz loop).
>>> 
>>> And I can't prevent this flickering with a lock screen right before
>>> the setting of the filename. The setting of the filename seems to
>>> release the lock screen or it takes the focus of the window off and
>>> back. Very ugly in my case.
>>> 
>>> Tiemo
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>>> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im
>>> Auftrag von Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode
>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Juli 2017 15:30
>>> An: How to use LiveCode 
>>> Cc: Sean Cole (Pi) 

Re: AW: Codesigning a Mac desktop version

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I tried running it again, but same result

The file it has an issue with is the core unix executable. That means something 
in my app is offending the codesigning terminal app, but it does not tell me 
what.

I don't even know if it is my controls or the engine.

I could probably figure it out with many hours of testing...

Sigh

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 4:54 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I am not sure if it was this message, but sometimes I have to codesign the
> same bundle twice until it works. Trevors tool has a recursion, to sign all
> bundles, which are perhaps included in your bundle, but sometimes it "feels"
> (I don't know exactly what happens), like this recursion doesn't digs deep
> enough the first time, but reaches all content the second time.
> Tiemo
> 
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
> von Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. Juli 2017 10:16
> An: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Cc: jonathandly...@gmail.com
> Betreff: Re: Codesigning a Mac desktop version
> 
> I tried using Trevor Devore' codesigning stack, which is a very nice
> contribution to the community. I am getting a complaint about unsealed
> contents present in the bundle root. 
> 
> Does anyone know what the issue is?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 3:49 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> I am not sure which parts we need to sign. Is it just the app bundle, the
> zipped file, plugins within the app bundle?
>> 
>> If anyone has done this, which parts do you sign to avoid warnings from
> the gatekeeper?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> J
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: Codesigning a Mac desktop version

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I tried using Trevor Devore' codesigning stack, which is a very nice 
contribution to the community. I am getting a complaint about unsealed contents 
present in the bundle root. 

Does anyone know what the issue is?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 3:49 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> I am not sure which parts we need to sign. Is it just the app bundle, the 
> zipped file, plugins within the app bundle?
> 
> If anyone has done this, which parts do you sign to avoid warnings from the 
> gatekeeper?
> 
> Thanks,
> J
> 
> Sent from my iPhone

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Codesigning a Mac desktop version

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I am not sure which parts we need to sign. Is it just the app bundle, the 
zipped file, plugins within the app bundle?

If anyone has done this, which parts do you sign to avoid warnings from the 
gatekeeper?

Thanks,
J

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: debugging a CEF browser instance

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I am just using CEF on windows, in the browser widget. I have zero knowledge of 
Linux and so I am a bit hesitant to attempt that. My app leans heavily on the 
browser widget, so I guess Linux is not yet an option.

Is Linux a big market for casual users?

Anyway, I just think it would be nice to see which JS errors we are producing. 
Shrugs - I have done okay with just testing line-by-line as I go.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 3:28 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2017-07-06 08:39, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>> Why?
> 
> In general there is a cost to logging - particularly CEF's which is very 
> verbose. On Windows you might not notice (as stdout/stderr output is 
> generally dumped to the equivalent of /dev/null), but on Linux if you happen 
> to be working from the command-line and running UI stuff using the browser 
> widget from there then you'll find your terminal flooded with CEF logging 
> (and I mean flooded!).
> 
> I don't think anyone has asked specifically about having it configurable 
> before now - although I noticed it would be useful last month 
> (http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19862) whilst attempting to 
> figure out why the browser widget only works on *some* linux installs (seems 
> to be somewhat independent of distribution - the workarounds some people have 
> found with regards the locale don't seem to work anymore).
> 
> Unfortunately, we aren't any closer to solving the linux problem... After at 
> least three of us spending more hours than I'd care to comment on trying to 
> figure out what is happening there, we're working through a couple of tasks 
> so that we can more easily update CEF to the latest version.
> 
> In particular, making it so that we can build our 'prebuilts' (currently ICU, 
> OpenSSL and Curl) on vulcan (doing it manually is arduous and intensely error 
> prone). We can then move the building of the CEF library component to a 
> prebuilt and automate its generation based on a version tag (we can thank 
> Spotify for taking over the management of binary releases of CEF - 
> http://opensource.spotify.com/cefbuilds/index.html - as they've made it much 
> much easier).
> 
> So we're currently involved in a (small) yak-shave in this regard... Although 
> one which will also mean we can solve a couple of other issues - the size of 
> ICU data (has anyone noticed that the 9 engines are somewhat bigger than 8? 
> That's down in good part to the ICU data), and also the several minute 
> increase per platform in build time due to the Skia update. I also hope that 
> this means that over time we can eliminate the thirdparty submodule entirely 
> - which would be one less point of friction in our source base.
> 
> Incidentally, Bernard and Jonathon - I take it you are using the browser 
> widget on Windows? (The reason I ask that is because CEF is only used on 
> Windows and Linux - Mac/Android and iOS all use the built-in browser - all 
> three are WebKit derived, like CEF).
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
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Re: Crashing when I try to make a Mac standalone

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I will try tc 3 - just need to hack the plist again

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 2:57 AM, Thierry Douez via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 2017-07-06 8:54 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Lynch:
> 
>> Following up - it seems to create the standalone and then crash.
> 
> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2017, at 2:46 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> When I try to make a standalone for Mac in version 8.1.5 RC 2
>> 
> it crashes at the moment where it tries to include externals.
>> 
>> 
> Just a guess; might be RC 3 would help...
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Thierry
> 
> -- 
> 
> Thierry Douez - sunny-tdz.com
> sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage
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Re: Crashing when I try to make a Mac standalone

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Following up - it seems to create the standalone and then crash. At least it 
created the standalone, but that crash makes me nervous.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 2:46 AM, jonathandly...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> When I try to make a standalone for Mac in version 8.1.5 RC 2 it crashes at 
> the moment where it tries to include externals.
> 
> Has anyone else seen this or know what I should be looking out for?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone

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Crashing when I try to make a Mac standalone

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

When I try to make a standalone for Mac in version 8.1.5 RC 2 it crashes at the 
moment where it tries to include externals.

Has anyone else seen this or know what I should be looking out for?

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: debugging a CEF browser instance

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Why?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2017, at 1:45 AM, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Replying to myself, for anyone else who thinks it ought to be possible to
> debug a browser widget.
> 
> Ability to debug has been deliberately turned off.
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/commit/ccfab94499425b6245f98b3328ebd043876f9be7
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Re: Which is better for making an android version, Mac or pc?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Thank you, Jacqueline

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 5, 2017, at 5:11 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 7/5/17 2:48 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote:
>> Is it easier to use a Mac or a pc for making android apps?
> 
> I don't think it matters. I develop on a Mac and have been building all my 
> Android projects on that OS without any trouble. I know others have used PCs 
> without problems too.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
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Which is better for making an android version, Mac or pc?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Is it easier to use a Mac or a pc for making android apps?

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: AW: can I lock screen over more than one handler?

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

Hi Tiemo - you could play the video in a browser. I know that seems to be my 
go-to solution, but I figure we do whatever works.

Have you tried switching between players without locking the screen?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 5, 2017, at 11:42 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Jonathan had a tricky idea to work with two player objects switching between
> them with hiding and showing them and doing the assignment of the filename
> with the currently hidden player, even with locking the screen at the
> beginning of the handler.
> It's a pitty, but the flickering of the whole window frame keeps the same.
> The directShow video engine must be somehow totally dominant.
> Any other tricky idea?
> Tiemo
> 
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
> von Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Juli 2017 15:57
> An: 'How to use LiveCode' 
> Cc: Tiemo Hollmann TB 
> Betreff: AW: can I lock screen over more than one handler?
> 
> Thanks Jonathan, Trevor and Sean for your comments.
> 
> Meanwhile I could drill down my "flickering" problem (post from yesterday)
> to an unexpected command.
> In one of those handlers I "set the filename of player "myVideoPlayer" to
> tFile". This command withdraws the focus from the window and passes it back
> after some milliseconds. On my Win 10 machine with a white window title bar
> I almost can't see it, but on Win 8 with the standard violet title bar it is
> an ugly flickering, each time I set the filename (which happens very
> frequently in a quiz loop).
> 
> And I can't prevent this flickering with a lock screen right before the
> setting of the filename. The setting of the filename seems to release the
> lock screen or it takes the focus of the window off and back. Very ugly in
> my case.
> 
> Tiemo
> 
> 
> 
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag
> von Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Juli 2017 15:30
> An: How to use LiveCode 
> Cc: Sean Cole (Pi) 
> Betreff: Re: can I lock screen over more than one handler?
> 
> Hi Tiemo,
> The solution here is to call another lockScreen at the beginning of
> handler2. You don't have to use the unlockScreen at the end of handler 1 and
> 2 as it will do that automatically but it is advisable to include the
> command anyway. Is there a reason why you had an aversion to using a
> lockScreen at the start of handler2?
> 
> All the best
> 
> Sean Cole
> *Pi Digital Productions Ltd*
> 
> On 5 July 2017 at 14:09, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 6:45 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode < 
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Is this possible?
>>> 
>>> on handler1
>>> 
>>> lock screen
>>> 
>>> -- do some stuff here
>>> 
>>> send "handler2" in 0 milliseconds
>>> 
>>> end handler1
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> on handler2
>>> 
>>> -- do some other stuff here
>>> 
>>> unlock screen
>>> 
>>> end handler2
>>> 
>> 
>> No it is not. From the docs for `lock screen`:
>> 
>> "When all pending handlers are finished executing, the lockScreen 
>> property is set back to false and the user sees the current state of 
>> stack windows on the screen."
>> 
>> The use of the word "pending" is confusing because when you use `send` 
>> you end up with an entry in the `pendingMessages`. But the screen is 
>> going to be unlocked each time through the event loop. If `handler` 
>> called `handler2` directly (without using `send`) then you would not 
>> see the screen update. You should see the result you are looking for 
>> if you change your code to look like this:
>> 
>> ```
>> on handler1
>>  lock screen
>> 
>>  -- do some stuff here
>> 
>>  handler2
>> end handler1
>> ```
>> 
>> If you need to call `handler2` in time then you will need to figure 
>> out another approach to updating the screen. Perhaps all screen 
>> updates will need to happen in `handler2`.
>> 
>> --
>> Trevor DeVore
>> ScreenSteps
>> www.screensteps.com
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