Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Jacque:

> I did a test before answering and the message was sent to the card
> of my otherwise blank stack, after dismissing the IDE dialog.

Same here!

Bob:

> there have been at least 2 versions that were unstable that crash
> to desktops were not uncommon, and after losing so much data, I
> save frequently, and auto save whenever I close a sub stack.

I agree, saving carefully/saving "big-league" is a must for LC IDE! :)
Got in the constant-save habit way back with version 1.1.1.
(Which had a tendency to vanish in the middle of a coding session.)

Here's what I do (and it all works, no message problems, no bugs):

1. If I edit any script, I manually save when I apply changes.
(I don't write more than 3 lines of code before saving.)

2. If I edit any UI or properties, I manually save.
(I save every 5 minutes or less, and before leaving a dirty card.)

3. Before I close any stack I've edited, I MANUALLY save.
And if I use auto-clean, it's hooked up to saveStackRequest. Reliable.
No message difficulties. And I know it's saved.*
(If I forget to save, it warns me. That's my backup if habit fails.)

4. *For each of the above, #1-#3, I look for the dialog while saving.

5. *And every session (and before closing an edited stack) I look at the
stack in the Finder/Desktop to check the Mod date. I also make a copy.
("Sorta trust, but verify the heck out of it." There can be the known
disassociated-SE, or other bugs, that prevent IDE from really saving.)

6. *If in step #4 or #5 I find that it wasn't really saved,
I can save again or take any other necessary steps I deem appropriate,
because ... I have NOT closed the stack yet! That's why.
I intentionally save, then double check, then intentionally close.

IOW, If you and I don't trust the IDE enough to let it decide when we
should save (which is a big part of the reason this thread exists) ...

... then why should I trust it to SAVE FOR ME when I close a stack?
To me, that seems risky, plus it's not building on the same premise.

Even if the IDE did NOT have a known bug (or complication) and even if
the close message DID usually work, I would still save manually,
each and every time before closing a stack. That way I know.

(LC IDE should be more reliable, yet there is a silver lining:
it has taught me to save more carefully in EVERY app!
Because the idea of a completely reliable app instance is fantasy;
the computer itself could have a hardware or OS failure at any moment.
My manic LC save habits have "saved" me in other apps, more than once.)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Nice try but sadly it does not work. The message does not even get sent to the 
stack script.

Bob S


On Feb 4, 2021, at 5:22 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

On 2/4/21 4:19 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
NVM I found this bug has already been submitted… IN 2008! LOL! 
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4617 Hey Kevin! 

Looking at that, here's a (completely untested) suggestion:

The revIDEHandleCloseStackRequest handler is in the IDE backscript, so it's 
ready to be overridden. If you don't override it then it executes a 
revSaveCheck before moving on. If you override this command then you might get 
what you want.

...at the risk of losing data...

so maybe in your stack script you have:
on revIDEHandleCloseStackRequest
 return "pass"
end revIDEHandleCloseStackRequest

That said, I agree with others that this isn't a Good Idea, and a cleaning 
routine in preOpenStack would do the trick nicely.

--
Mark Wieder
ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Not sure. If the stack is “dirty” I get the save dialog BEFORE 
closeStackRequest, which is what I am trying to avoid.

To others, I know this is not a good idea in general, but since there have been 
at least 2 versions that were unstable that crash to desktops were not 
uncommon, and after losing so much data, I save frequently, and auto save 
whenever I close a sub stack.

Bob S


On Feb 4, 2021, at 5:36 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

I did a test before answering and the message was sent to the card of my 
otherwise blank stack, after dismissing the IDE dialog. That makes me think 
something is going on with your particular stack. What happens if you try it 
with a plain new stack?

--
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jac...@hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Thanks all for your suggestions. I will try various methods. 

As to the propriety of certain methods, I suppose in answer to why do it that 
way, to quote another thread, “Because we can!” :-)

Bob S

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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 2/4/21 6:33 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:


The preOpenStack handler is NOT ideal for this type of cleanup.
"Literally, to "clear the fields" of a stack."
(And now we also know, a "complex" stack.)
That is NOT something best done in preOpenStack.

A complex stack usually has multiple cards.
The user is going from one card to the other - perhaps more than once.
You need this type of cleanup triggered by preOpenCard!
Whereas preOpenStack and startup are better for general init.
Keep it modular; preOpenCard and Clear Form can call the same code.


Ah... quite right. I do stand corrected there.

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 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Mark:
> I agree with others that this isn't a Good Idea,
> and a cleaning routine in preOpenStack would do the trick nicely.

Amen, Brother Mark! Good Idea to avoid Bad Habits.
(Agreed, except a small but crucial difference in details)

As Tore said:
> execute the necessary routines as part of a preOpenStack handler

Again, with a small but important difference:

The preOpenStack handler is NOT ideal for this type of cleanup.
"Literally, to "clear the fields" of a stack."
(And now we also know, a "complex" stack.)
That is NOT something best done in preOpenStack.

A complex stack usually has multiple cards.
The user is going from one card to the other - perhaps more than once.
You need this type of cleanup triggered by preOpenCard!
Whereas preOpenStack and startup are better for general init.
Keep it modular; preOpenCard and Clear Form can call the same code.

(You both already probably know that and do it.
Just making an explicit point for other readers who are learning.
People always tell me things they read here! They take it to heart.)

If you clean up fields in preOpenCard, you're ready for the end user.
But your saved stack may be very BLOATED at times!
Large amount data in a field, image, etc.

(And yes, in these days of interim-capacity SSDs, disk space matters.
Your stack will also be saved in a more cluttered state.)

To solve that easily, as I've said: use saveStackRequest!

That way your stack is SAVED clean and non-bloated.
You can freely test larger data samples.
Stacks are small for sharing within your dev team.

Your users will NEVER see your test data entries.
(Even if a preOpenX handler fails due to runtime bug,
which I've seen happen fairly often in stacks people make!
Potential embarrassments automatically averted.)
It's also perfect for simpler stacks with one card.

Bob:
> Back to the drawing board.

Not if you take the advice of myself and others!
Proven solutions, well-tested over time, reliable, that work TODAY.
(But I do like the IDE bug report; the IDE tramples some messages.)
Good topic! People will learn from it. Thanks for starting it.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

I did a test before answering and the message was sent to the card of my 
otherwise blank stack, after dismissing the IDE dialog. That makes me think 
something is going on with your particular stack. What happens if you try 
it with a plain new stack?


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On February 4, 2021 6:07:32 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
 wrote:


Thanks Ralph. Actually what I am looking for is a message that gets sent 
when the close button of a window gets clicked. The Message Watcher seems 
to indicate not (or rather fails to indicate). I think this is a bug, or at 
least an oversight. This means that anyone can close a stack, and 
closeStackRequest will not get triggered. This seems contrary to what 
closeStackRequest is for.


I will submit a feature request, but I suspect it’s going to be low on the 
totem pole.


Bob S


On Feb 4, 2021, at 3:53 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:


Is this what you're looking for?

revIDESetEdited pStackName
revIDESetUnedited pStackName

Interrogate it with: revIDEStackIsEdited pStackName

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

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RE: Close Stack Cleanup

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

That looks like it would work though it isn't the variable I remember. 
Probably that's what changed. Nice sleuthing.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On February 4, 2021 5:52:14 PM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Is this what you're looking for?

revIDESetEdited pStackName
revIDESetUnedited pStackName

Interrogate it with: revIDEStackIsEdited pStackName

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net



-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf 
Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode

Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2021 5:53 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: J. Landman Gay
Subject: Re: Close Stack Cleanup

There used to be a gREV* global variable that tracked the dirty status and 
if the stack was dirty it put up the "do you want to save?" dialog. I can't 
find it now so something has changed. When it existed, you could toggle 
that variable via script and the IDE wouldn't bother you.


The IDE does pass the closeStackRequest to your stack after it checks the 
stack status. The docs are correct that you don't get that message when a 
script closes the stack but you can use closeStack instead; however, first 
we need to find out where that variable went to. It used to be in the 
globals pane of the message watcher, and I'd recognize it if I saw it, but 
I can't remember now what it was.


On 2/4/21 12:59 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

Hi all.

I know we have tread this ground before, but I am trying to clean up my 
stack (i.e. clear the fields), then save it when I close it BY ANY MEANS. 
That means by script, by menu OR by clicking the red dot (of for WIN users 
the red X) in the title bar. I need this to work in the IDE as well as in 
standalone.


You would think closeStackRequest gets sent when I click the red dot or X. 
You would be mistaken.


The dictionary reads,

The closeStackRequest message is only sent if the request to close a stack 
is initiated by the user (eg by clicking file -> close in the LiveCode 
menu). If the request is initiated from a script (eg "close this stack" ) 
then the closeStackRequest message is not sent.


Apparently clicking the red dot is not considered, “initiated by the user.” 
It ought to be.


If I use “CloseStack” instead, I cannot save the stack because a script is 
currently running, and I do not want to be presented with the dialog to 
save, do not save, or cancel. I just want it to be saved. I can force quit 
if I mess something up.


Bob S

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Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com


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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 2/4/21 4:19 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

NVM I found this bug has already been submitted… IN 2008! LOL! 
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4617 Hey Kevin! 


Looking at that, here's a (completely untested) suggestion:

The revIDEHandleCloseStackRequest handler is in the IDE backscript, so 
it's ready to be overridden. If you don't override it then it executes a 
revSaveCheck before moving on. If you override this command then you 
might get what you want.


...at the risk of losing data...

so maybe in your stack script you have:
on revIDEHandleCloseStackRequest
  return "pass"
end revIDEHandleCloseStackRequest

That said, I agree with others that this isn't a Good Idea, and a 
cleaning routine in preOpenStack would do the trick nicely.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

NVM I found this bug has already been submitted… IN 2008! LOL! 
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4617 Hey Kevin! 

Bob S


On Feb 4, 2021, at 4:05 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Thanks Ralph. Actually what I am looking for is a message that gets sent when 
the close button of a window gets clicked. The Message Watcher seems to 
indicate not (or rather fails to indicate). I think this is a bug, or at least 
an oversight. This means that anyone can close a stack, and closeStackRequest 
will not get triggered. This seems contrary to what closeStackRequest is for.

I will submit a feature request, but I suspect it’s going to be low on the 
totem pole.

Bob S

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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Thanks Ralph. Actually what I am looking for is a message that gets sent when 
the close button of a window gets clicked. The Message Watcher seems to 
indicate not (or rather fails to indicate). I think this is a bug, or at least 
an oversight. This means that anyone can close a stack, and closeStackRequest 
will not get triggered. This seems contrary to what closeStackRequest is for.

I will submit a feature request, but I suspect it’s going to be low on the 
totem pole.

Bob S


On Feb 4, 2021, at 3:53 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Is this what you're looking for?

revIDESetEdited pStackName
revIDESetUnedited pStackName

Interrogate it with: revIDEStackIsEdited pStackName

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

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RE: Close Stack Cleanup

[Ralph DiMola via use-livecode]

Is this what you're looking for?

revIDESetEdited pStackName
revIDESetUnedited pStackName

Interrogate it with: revIDEStackIsEdited pStackName

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net



-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2021 5:53 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: J. Landman Gay
Subject: Re: Close Stack Cleanup

There used to be a gREV* global variable that tracked the dirty status and if 
the stack was dirty it put up the "do you want to save?" dialog. I can't find 
it now so something has changed. When it existed, you could toggle that 
variable via script and the IDE wouldn't bother you.

The IDE does pass the closeStackRequest to your stack after it checks the stack 
status. The docs are correct that you don't get that message when a script 
closes the stack but you can use closeStack instead; however, first we need to 
find out where that variable went to. It used to be in the globals pane of the 
message watcher, and I'd recognize it if I saw it, but I can't remember now 
what it was.

On 2/4/21 12:59 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi all.
> 
> I know we have tread this ground before, but I am trying to clean up my stack 
> (i.e. clear the fields), then save it when I close it BY ANY MEANS. That 
> means by script, by menu OR by clicking the red dot (of for WIN users the red 
> X) in the title bar. I need this to work in the IDE as well as in standalone.
> 
> You would think closeStackRequest gets sent when I click the red dot or X. 
> You would be mistaken.
> 
> The dictionary reads,
> 
> The closeStackRequest message is only sent if the request to close a stack is 
> initiated by the user (eg by clicking file -> close in the LiveCode menu). If 
> the request is initiated from a script (eg "close this stack" ) then the 
> closeStackRequest message is not sent.
> 
> Apparently clicking the red dot is not considered, “initiated by the user.” 
> It ought to be.
> 
> If I use “CloseStack” instead, I cannot save the stack because a script is 
> currently running, and I do not want to be presented with the dialog to save, 
> do not save, or cancel. I just want it to be saved. I can force quit if I 
> mess something up.
> 
> Bob S
> 
> ___
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> preferences:
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com


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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

 Back to the drawing board. This does NOT work when clicking the red dot.

Bob S


On Feb 4, 2021, at 3:10 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Thanks for the reply Jacque. I ran the message watcher while clicking the red 
dot. None of the messages that appear have anything to do with closing the 
stack.

Here’s what I came up with. The closeStackRequest is NOT getting sent to the 
current card as the dictionary indicates, although the target IS the current 
card. It DOES get sent to the stack though. So I put this in the stack script 
and it DOES work with the red dot.

on closeStackRequest
  if the short name of the target is "Main” then — I have substacks but no 
other cards called Main
 dispatch resetMainForm to the target
  end if

  save this stack
  pass closeStackRequest
END closeStackRequest

Bob S

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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Thanks Curry. That works for the IDE, but not for the standalone. End Users do 
not save their stacks, as I give them no way to do so. The stacks in my app 
perform two functions: An interface to control the app and also a place to 
store persistent data i.e. properties. If a user force-quits my app for any 
reason, saving upon closing a sub stack ensures those updated properties are 
retained.

I could test for the IDE I know, but for my purposes, having lost so much form 
modifications in the past due to some kind of race condition or IDE lock up, I 
auto-save regularly, not just when I close a stack.

As an aside, this is what was slowing my Windows Standalones down so much. It 
has been well documented that the performance of saving a stack (especially one 
as complex as mine) in Windows is fairly oppressive. In a Windows Standalone I 
have to trap most of the times I save a stack, allowing only for saving upon 
close.

Bob S


On Feb 4, 2021, at 3:17 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Me again:

Don't think "clean up and save." Keep the twain separate.
I choose when to save, it's a conscious choice, and it fires my cleanup.
My stack is almost always saved clean.

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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Tore:

> I do not do any clean up at closing time. Instead I execute
> the necessary routines as part of a preOpenStack handler.
> I then do not have to consider which way the stack was closed.

Yes! Like you, for cleanup I also avoid that how-closed consideration.
Much easier to have a simpler single trap.

Yet I ALSO avoid saving user/test data!
That keeps my files smaller in their saved state.

And if opened with messages off, still cleaner

Bob:

> when I open the stack the next time I do not want to
> remains of what I was doing before to show.

You can! Several routes to choose. Presenting the easiest.

Me again:

> I perform cleanup when I save.

In other words, try saveStackRequest!
Don't "save" with your own code; let LC IDE do that.
Just perform your cleanup, then pass.
That way your cleaned-up stack is reliably saved.

You get the best of both - simple trap, reliable.

(However, your original method would work - if you finish it!
And while typing this, I see you already made progress; that's good.)

Tore again:

> By keeping it modular, the clean up script can also
> be started from other handlers if necessary.

Agreed!
Modularity increases performance, maintainability, and freedom.
Can't stress this enough.

Me again:

Don't think "clean up and save." Keep the twain separate.
I choose when to save, it's a conscious choice, and it fires my cleanup.
My stack is almost always saved clean.

Moreover I'm in the habit of saving (and backing up) BEFORE closing.
Habits are so important - they avoid needless suffering.

If I do forget my habit, the IDE will prompt me to save.
So I'm still OK - because I haven't disabled the system. It's my backup.
Nor do I rely primarily on that system. It's my backup. ;)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

It’s my understanding that I am unable to reference objects on a card of a 
stack in a preOpenStack handler. Referencing an object in the stack opens the 
stack triggering a race condition which continually triggers preOpenStack. That 
is from memory though.

Bob S


On Feb 4, 2021, at 2:50 PM, Tore Nilsen via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Performing the clean up in preOpenStack makes it happen before the stack is 
visible, at least according to the dictionary.

"Unlike openStack <>, preOpenStack handlers <> are executed <> before the stack 
window <> appears. Because of this, the preOpenStack handler <> is a good place 
to put code that adjusts the size, position, and appearance of objects <>; the 
changes are made before the stack <> appears."

My experience is that this is true.


Tore

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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Thanks for the reply Jacque. I ran the message watcher while clicking the red 
dot. None of the messages that appear have anything to do with closing the 
stack.

Here’s what I came up with. The closeStackRequest is NOT getting sent to the 
current card as the dictionary indicates, although the target IS the current 
card. It DOES get sent to the stack though. So I put this in the stack script 
and it DOES work with the red dot.

on closeStackRequest
   if the short name of the target is "Main” then — I have substacks but no 
other cards called Main
  dispatch resetMainForm to the target
   end if

   save this stack
   pass closeStackRequest
END closeStackRequest

Bob S


On Feb 4, 2021, at 2:52 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

There used to be a gREV* global variable that tracked the dirty status and if 
the stack was dirty it put up the "do you want to save?" dialog. I can't find 
it now so something has changed. When it existed, you could toggle that 
variable via script and the IDE wouldn't bother you.

The IDE does pass the closeStackRequest to your stack after it checks the stack 
status. The docs are correct that you don't get that message when a script 
closes the stack but you can use closeStack instead; however, first we need to 
find out where that variable went to. It used to be in the globals pane of the 
message watcher, and I'd recognize it if I saw it, but I can't remember now 
what it was.

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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

There used to be a gREV* global variable that tracked the dirty status and if the stack was 
dirty it put up the "do you want to save?" dialog. I can't find it now so something has 
changed. When it existed, you could toggle that variable via script and the IDE wouldn't bother 
you.


The IDE does pass the closeStackRequest to your stack after it checks the stack status. The 
docs are correct that you don't get that message when a script closes the stack but you can use 
closeStack instead; however, first we need to find out where that variable went to. It used to 
be in the globals pane of the message watcher, and I'd recognize it if I saw it, but I can't 
remember now what it was.


On 2/4/21 12:59 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

Hi all.

I know we have tread this ground before, but I am trying to clean up my stack 
(i.e. clear the fields), then save it when I close it BY ANY MEANS. That means 
by script, by menu OR by clicking the red dot (of for WIN users the red X) in 
the title bar. I need this to work in the IDE as well as in standalone.

You would think closeStackRequest gets sent when I click the red dot or X. You 
would be mistaken.

The dictionary reads,

The closeStackRequest message is only sent if the request to close a stack is initiated by 
the user (eg by clicking file -> close in the LiveCode menu). If the request is initiated 
from a script (eg "close this stack" ) then the closeStackRequest message is not 
sent.

Apparently clicking the red dot is not considered, “initiated by the user.” It 
ought to be.

If I use “CloseStack” instead, I cannot save the stack because a script is 
currently running, and I do not want to be presented with the dialog to save, 
do not save, or cancel. I just want it to be saved. I can force quit if I mess 
something up.

Bob S

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--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com


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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[Tore Nilsen via use-livecode]

Performing the clean up in preOpenStack makes it happen before the stack is 
visible, at least according to the dictionary.

"Unlike openStack <>, preOpenStack handlers <> are executed <> before the stack 
window <> appears. Because of this, the preOpenStack handler <> is a good place 
to put code that adjusts the size, position, and appearance of objects <>; the 
changes are made before the stack <> appears."

My experience is that this is true.


Tore

> 4. feb. 2021 kl. 23:43 skrev Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Thanks for the response Curry and Tore. 
> 
> The reason I clean up at close is because when I open the stack the next time 
> I do not want to remains of what I was doing before to show. It’s a small 
> point but it look cleaner if the first time opening the stack there is 
> nothing in the fields. All attempts to hide the stack then clear it before 
> making it visible have been iffy. 
> 
> I guess what I need is a message or series of messages that get generated 
> BEFORE the stack is closed. 
> 
> I have this in the only card in my stack: 
> 
> on closeStackRequest
>   resetMainForm
>   save this stack
>   pass closeStackRequest — this has a breakpoint
> end closeStackRequest
> 
> I have a breakpoint on the pass statement. When clicking the red dot I get 
> asked if I want to save the stack. For whatever reason, for me the 
> closeStackRequest is NOT getting sent to the current card! 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 1:23 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Bob:
>> 
>>> I am trying to clean up my stack (i.e. clear the fields),
>>> then save it when I close it
>> 
>> This is a good topic for LiveCode learners; I'm chiming in
>> 
>> I often do something similar - but with an important difference:
>> I perform cleanup when I save. I do NOT force an auto save.
>> (More on that later.)
>> 
>>> BY ANY MEANS. That means by script, by menu OR by clicking the red dot
>>> (of for WIN users the red X) in the title bar.
>>> I need this to work in the IDE as well as in standalone.
>> 
>> So, let's halt at this point and take inventory of your desires!
>> You want to trap at least 3 methods of initiating a close action.
>> (Tally: 3)
>> 
>> Furthermore, IDE versus Standalone is an extra complexity.
>> I don't like that, but it is the unfortunate reality.
>> So I'm accounting for that extra complexity via a "+" designation!
>> (Tally: "3+")
>> 
>> Now jumping ahead a bit to make a connection:
>> 
>>> If I use “CloseStack” instead
>> 
>> Remember our tally of "3+" Actions?
>> The word "instead" suggests you're assuming a SINGLE trap.
>> 
>> Everyone here should know my KISS philosophy: less is better.
>> 3 birds with one stone is superior; I'm always harping on that.
>> But then again, in this case you have 3+ birds! :)
>> 
>> I'd hazard a guess on 2 traps - that's my experience for similar cases.
>> (But if one will work, use one.)
>> 
>>> You would think closeStackRequest gets sent when I
>>> click the red dot or X. You would be mistaken.
>> 
>> Actually I would NOT be mistaken, as long as we're talking about the X,
>> and the stack has been named/saved at least once. Just tested it!
>> 
>> But among the "extra complexity" I mentioned, if the stack is dirty,
>> the IDE will trap the close action at the front, BEFORE you get it.
>> It can still fire, but AFTER you dance around a bit with the IDE.
>> (Important to note that's the IDE; closeStackRequest does respond.)
>> 
>> To succeed in the IDE, you may indeed need to use closeStack.
>> But that's probably "with" not "instead" of closeStackRequest!
>> 
>> We can still follow KISS and avoid duplicating code,
>> via modularity - the 2 traps can call a common set of code.
>> Using params or other means to handle the differences in the 2/3 cases.
>> 
>>> I just want it to be saved. I can force quit if I mess something up.
>> 
>> I DISCOURAGE using a custom auto-save and resorting to force quit.
>> If you implement an auto-save, do it very well.
>> (And done well, a force-quit would not likely be Plan A for reverting.)
>> 
>> But I encourage cleanup when saving or when closing. I do it constantly.
>> It just requires a set of trap(s) that does spring for the 3 actions.
>> You're half way there, just think "AND" not "instead" to finish it!
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Curry Kenworthy
>> 
>> Custom Software Development
>> "Better Methods, Better Results"
>> LiveCode Training and Consulting
>> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>> 
>> ___
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>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Thanks for the response Curry and Tore. 

The reason I clean up at close is because when I open the stack the next time I 
do not want to remains of what I was doing before to show. It’s a small point 
but it look cleaner if the first time opening the stack there is nothing in the 
fields. All attempts to hide the stack then clear it before making it visible 
have been iffy. 

I guess what I need is a message or series of messages that get generated 
BEFORE the stack is closed. 

I have this in the only card in my stack: 

on closeStackRequest
   resetMainForm
   save this stack
   pass closeStackRequest — this has a breakpoint
end closeStackRequest

I have a breakpoint on the pass statement. When clicking the red dot I get 
asked if I want to save the stack. For whatever reason, for me the 
closeStackRequest is NOT getting sent to the current card! 

Bob S


> On Feb 4, 2021, at 1:23 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Bob:
> 
> > I am trying to clean up my stack (i.e. clear the fields),
> > then save it when I close it
> 
> This is a good topic for LiveCode learners; I'm chiming in
> 
> I often do something similar - but with an important difference:
> I perform cleanup when I save. I do NOT force an auto save.
> (More on that later.)
> 
> > BY ANY MEANS. That means by script, by menu OR by clicking the red dot
> > (of for WIN users the red X) in the title bar.
> > I need this to work in the IDE as well as in standalone.
> 
> So, let's halt at this point and take inventory of your desires!
> You want to trap at least 3 methods of initiating a close action.
> (Tally: 3)
> 
> Furthermore, IDE versus Standalone is an extra complexity.
> I don't like that, but it is the unfortunate reality.
> So I'm accounting for that extra complexity via a "+" designation!
> (Tally: "3+")
> 
> Now jumping ahead a bit to make a connection:
> 
> > If I use “CloseStack” instead
> 
> Remember our tally of "3+" Actions?
> The word "instead" suggests you're assuming a SINGLE trap.
> 
> Everyone here should know my KISS philosophy: less is better.
> 3 birds with one stone is superior; I'm always harping on that.
> But then again, in this case you have 3+ birds! :)
> 
> I'd hazard a guess on 2 traps - that's my experience for similar cases.
> (But if one will work, use one.)
> 
> > You would think closeStackRequest gets sent when I
> > click the red dot or X. You would be mistaken.
> 
> Actually I would NOT be mistaken, as long as we're talking about the X,
> and the stack has been named/saved at least once. Just tested it!
> 
> But among the "extra complexity" I mentioned, if the stack is dirty,
> the IDE will trap the close action at the front, BEFORE you get it.
> It can still fire, but AFTER you dance around a bit with the IDE.
> (Important to note that's the IDE; closeStackRequest does respond.)
> 
> To succeed in the IDE, you may indeed need to use closeStack.
> But that's probably "with" not "instead" of closeStackRequest!
> 
> We can still follow KISS and avoid duplicating code,
> via modularity - the 2 traps can call a common set of code.
> Using params or other means to handle the differences in the 2/3 cases.
> 
> > I just want it to be saved. I can force quit if I mess something up.
> 
> I DISCOURAGE using a custom auto-save and resorting to force quit.
> If you implement an auto-save, do it very well.
> (And done well, a force-quit would not likely be Plan A for reverting.)
> 
> But I encourage cleanup when saving or when closing. I do it constantly.
> It just requires a set of trap(s) that does spring for the 3 actions.
> You're half way there, just think "AND" not "instead" to finish it!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
> 
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[Tore Nilsen via use-livecode]

I follow a similar approach to what Curry describes here, keeping it modular, 
but I do not do any clean up at closing time. Instead I execute the necessary 
routines as part of a preOpenStack handler. I then do not have to consider 
which way the stack was closed. This is also what I encourage my students to 
do, in order to present the users with a pristine application every time the 
user starts the application.

By keeping it modular, the clean up script can also be started from other 
handlers if necessary. 

Best regards
Tore Nilsen

> 4. feb. 2021 kl. 22:23 skrev Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> 
> Bob:
> 
> > I am trying to clean up my stack (i.e. clear the fields),
> > then save it when I close it
> 
> This is a good topic for LiveCode learners; I'm chiming in
> 
> I often do something similar - but with an important difference:
> I perform cleanup when I save. I do NOT force an auto save.
> (More on that later.)
> 
> > BY ANY MEANS. That means by script, by menu OR by clicking the red dot
> > (of for WIN users the red X) in the title bar.
> > I need this to work in the IDE as well as in standalone.
> 
> So, let's halt at this point and take inventory of your desires!
> You want to trap at least 3 methods of initiating a close action.
> (Tally: 3)
> 
> Furthermore, IDE versus Standalone is an extra complexity.
> I don't like that, but it is the unfortunate reality.
> So I'm accounting for that extra complexity via a "+" designation!
> (Tally: "3+")
> 
> Now jumping ahead a bit to make a connection:
> 
> > If I use “CloseStack” instead
> 
> Remember our tally of "3+" Actions?
> The word "instead" suggests you're assuming a SINGLE trap.
> 
> Everyone here should know my KISS philosophy: less is better.
> 3 birds with one stone is superior; I'm always harping on that.
> But then again, in this case you have 3+ birds! :)
> 
> I'd hazard a guess on 2 traps - that's my experience for similar cases.
> (But if one will work, use one.)
> 
> > You would think closeStackRequest gets sent when I
> > click the red dot or X. You would be mistaken.
> 
> Actually I would NOT be mistaken, as long as we're talking about the X,
> and the stack has been named/saved at least once. Just tested it!
> 
> But among the "extra complexity" I mentioned, if the stack is dirty,
> the IDE will trap the close action at the front, BEFORE you get it.
> It can still fire, but AFTER you dance around a bit with the IDE.
> (Important to note that's the IDE; closeStackRequest does respond.)
> 
> To succeed in the IDE, you may indeed need to use closeStack.
> But that's probably "with" not "instead" of closeStackRequest!
> 
> We can still follow KISS and avoid duplicating code,
> via modularity - the 2 traps can call a common set of code.
> Using params or other means to handle the differences in the 2/3 cases.
> 
> > I just want it to be saved. I can force quit if I mess something up.
> 
> I DISCOURAGE using a custom auto-save and resorting to force quit.
> If you implement an auto-save, do it very well.
> (And done well, a force-quit would not likely be Plan A for reverting.)
> 
> But I encourage cleanup when saving or when closing. I do it constantly.
> It just requires a set of trap(s) that does spring for the 3 actions.
> You're half way there, just think "AND" not "instead" to finish it!
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
> 
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Re: Close Stack Cleanup

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Bob:

> I am trying to clean up my stack (i.e. clear the fields),
> then save it when I close it

This is a good topic for LiveCode learners; I'm chiming in

I often do something similar - but with an important difference:
I perform cleanup when I save. I do NOT force an auto save.
(More on that later.)

> BY ANY MEANS. That means by script, by menu OR by clicking the red dot
> (of for WIN users the red X) in the title bar.
> I need this to work in the IDE as well as in standalone.

So, let's halt at this point and take inventory of your desires!
You want to trap at least 3 methods of initiating a close action.
(Tally: 3)

Furthermore, IDE versus Standalone is an extra complexity.
I don't like that, but it is the unfortunate reality.
So I'm accounting for that extra complexity via a "+" designation!
(Tally: "3+")

Now jumping ahead a bit to make a connection:

> If I use “CloseStack” instead

Remember our tally of "3+" Actions?
The word "instead" suggests you're assuming a SINGLE trap.

Everyone here should know my KISS philosophy: less is better.
3 birds with one stone is superior; I'm always harping on that.
But then again, in this case you have 3+ birds! :)

I'd hazard a guess on 2 traps - that's my experience for similar cases.
(But if one will work, use one.)

> You would think closeStackRequest gets sent when I
> click the red dot or X. You would be mistaken.

Actually I would NOT be mistaken, as long as we're talking about the X,
and the stack has been named/saved at least once. Just tested it!

But among the "extra complexity" I mentioned, if the stack is dirty,
the IDE will trap the close action at the front, BEFORE you get it.
It can still fire, but AFTER you dance around a bit with the IDE.
(Important to note that's the IDE; closeStackRequest does respond.)

To succeed in the IDE, you may indeed need to use closeStack.
But that's probably "with" not "instead" of closeStackRequest!

We can still follow KISS and avoid duplicating code,
via modularity - the 2 traps can call a common set of code.
Using params or other means to handle the differences in the 2/3 cases.

> I just want it to be saved. I can force quit if I mess something up.

I DISCOURAGE using a custom auto-save and resorting to force quit.
If you implement an auto-save, do it very well.
(And done well, a force-quit would not likely be Plan A for reverting.)

But I encourage cleanup when saving or when closing. I do it constantly.
It just requires a set of trap(s) that does spring for the 3 actions.
You're half way there, just think "AND" not "instead" to finish it!

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Close Stack Cleanup

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Hi all. 

I know we have tread this ground before, but I am trying to clean up my stack 
(i.e. clear the fields), then save it when I close it BY ANY MEANS. That means 
by script, by menu OR by clicking the red dot (of for WIN users the red X) in 
the title bar. I need this to work in the IDE as well as in standalone. 

You would think closeStackRequest gets sent when I click the red dot or X. You 
would be mistaken. 

The dictionary reads, 

The closeStackRequest message is only sent if the request to close a stack is 
initiated by the user (eg by clicking file -> close in the LiveCode menu). If 
the request is initiated from a script (eg "close this stack" ) then the 
closeStackRequest message is not sent.

Apparently clicking the red dot is not considered, “initiated by the user.” It 
ought to be. 

If I use “CloseStack” instead, I cannot save the stack because a script is 
currently running, and I do not want to be presented with the dialog to save, 
do not save, or cancel. I just want it to be saved. I can force quit if I mess 
something up. 

Bob S

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