Re: Material Design - any plans to allow more granularity in design?

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

Given that my rant was open ended… 

Richard is a little more nuanced, thank you for that… 

Agreed, a subset of what is "required" to be in the engine to meet modern 
expectations would help.
 For the rest, we could build them ourselves.

This we cannot build ourselves…. I would put " smooth seamless, motion 
graphics"  -- card transition, swiping, scrolling, moving objects around, 
easing etc. --  "some # frames per second" -- as number one

animationEngine does a good job, by it is still pixel by pixel.

BR 

 Richard Gaskin wrote:

But in the meantime I can understand why both newcomers and experienced 
LC devs alike are asking for things like this.

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Re: Material Design - any plans to allow more granularity in design?

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Tom Glod wrote:

> ..as far as the whole philosophy...I really doubt that this is on the
> radar of Livecode the company they probably feel their efforts are
> better suited on technologies going into their development platform. I
> would agree with that.

Me too, but mobile OSes are now pretty much where desktop GUIs were back 
in the '90s: after a bit of settling out they now have much more in 
common than they have differences, and a tool that wants to sell will 
support those commonalities.


So whether a nav bar goes at the top or the bottom will vary, but the 
nav bar itself is often unchanged between platforms.  LC's widget 
handles that as well as LC handles menus in desktop GUIs, so that much 
is good.


But two things we see in nearly every app would be useful here:

- Mobile menu.  You know, often from a hamburger menu or some other 
trigger on the left side of the screen.  Not hard to make, but 
super-tedious to get right.  Desktop menus are joyfully simple in LC; 
mobile menus are a pain point.


- Card to card swipes:  can't be done in LC, at least not in any way 
that conforms with user expectations.  If you're willing to go to a LOT 
of effort you can build all your cards into one wide group and carefully 
write code to handle the event tracking.  Doable, but with no advantage 
to LC over any other toolkit, and very unintuitive.


There are probably other elements that would be useful, and perhaps over 
time these will become available as widgets, either by the company or 
the community.


But in the meantime I can understand why both newcomers and experienced 
LC devs alike are asking for things like this.  It's on par with the 
level of development ease that distinguishes LC on the desktop, and we'd 
love to see those advantages on mobile as well.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Material Design - any plans to allow more granularity in design?

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

We use the color pallete from material design .my goal eventually was
to create a plugin for LC for color selection, but as far as the whole
philosophy...I really doubt that this is on the radar of Livecode the
company they probably feel their efforts are better suited on
technologies going into their development platform. I would agree with that.

There is nothing stopping you from using the features of material design in
your application.  you can make your own material design library for your
application.  Good luck.

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via
use-livecode  wrote:

> My old familiar rant in this issue.  I now have a "enternal business
> license"   and we use Livecode for so much in-house stuff… and I have spent
> $ non-profit money on every offer Kevin has made in ~1999 when he got the
> company Scott Raney.
>
> So I have right to rant (ha)
>
> Livecode is so for behind the curve of UI/UX design.
>
> It makes going against an HTML5 app a challenge. "But Livecode is clunky,
> in doesn’t scroll nicely, no serious subtle animations - look in it takes
> you 10 minute to get text in a button center (play with margins). Your
> buttons are unresponsive. You can't really develop in Window. You might
> think of using html5 in a browser, but there so little integration of the
> LC message path. Look you cannot ever get a function to respond to JS from
> inside the browser widget! "
>
> I give you two example:
>
> The spiritual work on app done in HTML5
>
> https://www.himalayanacademy.com/apps/spiritual-workout
>
> one done in livecode
>
> https://www.himalayanacademy.com/apps/sivasiva
>
> Now the HTML5 takes forever to build, but builds small features  that are
> "cool looking" …. but it cannot come close the scope of SivaSiva app.
>
> I reply: "Yes, but for a major app with all feature we need, it will cost
> me 5 time as much $ in HTML5, take you 5 times a long to finish it an X
> number of feature you will tell me "can't be done html5"  But to get Korana
> design in InVision (a designer has done all the layout colors etc. ui is
> all done) I could gift that widget on Jacqueline she would finish in in
> three-five days."
>
> Reply I get: "We, we don't care how much is costs. Mobile app are too far
> ahead of lLvecode, we want to ship a good product, the platform is great
> for desktop apps but never mobile."
>
> It appears no one really (I know is not true) really tests LC on mobile,
> especially Android, or Windows, and complains about UI/UX building or
> responsiveness internally to the team.
>
> If LC would just STOP building new "enterprise features" and "cloud
> connect stuff"  and spend six months working solely on UI/UX issue… it
> would bring the platform in the 21st century.
>
> BR
>
> Over 80% of my work in LiveCode is dedicated to user interface design.
>
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Material Design - any plans to allow more granularity in design?

[R.H. via use-livecode]

Over 80% of my work in LiveCode is dedicated to user interface design.

I would like to support Material Design which is well supported by tools
such as Angular JS Material in Javascript -- and such framework (or similar
ones) give the idea of modern UIX.

I think it is worth reading for professional developers:
https://material.io/design/
https://material.angularjs.org/

Since it is a continued requirement to have more control over properties of
fields, buttons, and widgets including for example:

- Top, bottom, right and left borders
- their colors, thickness (weight), etc.
- leading, etc. or
- rounded borders to any degree
- animated visual effects for buttons/fields
- icons leading or trailing fields/buttons as part of the control
- etc.

I wanted to ask if there are any plans to implement such additional
properties for standard controls (including for widget customization) in
LiveCode?

The standard here could be: What is doable using CSS should be doable in
LiveCode "out of the box".

I can work around things more or less using graphic elements such as lines,
boxes, ovals, icons etc. , in front or behind other controls, but it adds
to the number of controls to manage, and/or it creates an inflation of
grouped controls. And animated visual effects must be supported on all
platforms.

And of course, I assume, we all want the whole toolbox to be cross-platform
which currently does not seem to be possible (native fields.. in Android,
iOS)

And widgets so far seem to be very limited to customization of their
appearance. For this very reason, they sometimes become useless to me (for
example, the tree view widget, and others). Often, I turn back to just
grouped controls which I can control much better in LCS than widgets using
LiveCode Script (LCS).

Maybe I really must try to understand LCB and go deeply into it?

And could there not be standard requirements that widgets must pass in
order to be accepted to be delivered to the community?

If I could contribute to achieving such aims, ... )

Roland
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