Re: [libreoffice-users] Base questions
> This is one way Base is more powerful than Access. That's the whole point. By not focusing on promoting Base as *the* generic client-side FOSS tool for access to client-server RDBMs, they're missing a *HUGE* opportunity. And since Rekall has vanished (despite being GPL), there's not much in terms of database tools (that don't require programming) in the FOSS world. Kexi isn't available anywhere else than on Linux and it's missing critical functionality (e.g. support for composite keys). > Of course it one that keeps being kept quiet in the race to try to > make it seem as limited as Access (because weeus only know Access, > right??). > > It's possible to use different programs to access the same data and > use it in different ways. Can Access be easily set-up as a networked > database and able to be read by multiple different users on different > machines at the same time as each other? In a reasonable way only with MS's own SQL Server. For anything else you afaik need to go through ODBC and the results are horrible. Trying to use Access as a client-side tool for e.g. PostgreSQL is like watching a glacier melt. At least it was the last time I tried. And that's not a problem of PostgreSQL ODBC support, but of the way that Access works with other databases than SQL Server. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Base questions
> I know that its not LO base specific but can,t find a way how to or > example of something like this. > What i want using cars as example is to make a search for > color,year,doors,model.kilometers driven,cabrio,engine,fuel and so > many more options. > Who can help me on my way how to set somthing like this up ? Just RTFM. >;-> For Base, the manual is at: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/e/e8/BH40-BaseHandbook.pdf For relational databases in general, the DB-Main tutorial is pretty good imho: http://tinyurl.com/mrab534 http://tinyurl.com/md84k87 Or just google for a few keywords: http://tinyurl.com/pqdebuj Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base questions
> > Bullshit. There are plenty of cross-platform RDBMSes that are not > > implemented in this grotesque proprietary abomination that Java is. > > My comment, or Sun's decision ? Sun's decision. Compulsive Javamania. There are bulkloads of programming languages and frameworks that allow cross-platform application development way better than Java will ever do. > How many of those cross-platform RDBMs were : > > - available in 2004 (when the decision was made to upgrade the OOo1 > Base iteration to something new) ? Postgres (back then without SQL) version 1 was released in 1989. And before Postgres there was Ingres from the same developers. That's where the name comes from, after all. > - didn't require masses of developer investment time and resources to > integrate into the codebase ? The SDBC driver was already there, developed by third-parties. > - ran on OSX, Windows and Linux ? PostgreSQL runs on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostgreSQL#Platforms It's even *shipped* with the default installation of MacOS X Server. > - weren't Java based ? PostgreSQL isn't. If you're a completely obsessive Java fetishist, you *can* use PL/Java for server-side application logic though. > - could be made to run in a single file and be portable across various > OSes ? I don't see a reason for the "single file" requirement. It's installed separately anyway. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] LibreOffice - Base...
> Using LinuxMint v17.0 Qiana qith the MATE DE. > > Have followed with interest the recent discussins on Base and have > decided to try and learn how to use it, using PostGreSQL as the > backend. But - and there is always one of those :-) - how many of > the multitude of postgrsql files in Synaptic do I need to install, > please. Based on whether it's the Ubuntu-based or the Debian-based Mint variant, installation instructions are here: http://www.postgresql.org/download/linux/ If you're new to PostgreSQL, it's probably a good idea to subscribe to the mailinglists: http://www.postgresql.org/list/ Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base questions
> As I recall, at the time of the release of OpenOffice2, it had to be > like Access Braindead. > - but of course, as Sun was mainly running the show, that > meant that it had to be multi-OS, thus Java based Bullshit. There are plenty of cross-platform RDBMSes that are not implemented in this grotesque proprietary abomination that Java is. > and a fairly "simple", "drop-in" piece of code with an appropriate > licence. One would do well to remember that at the time, the internal > Sun Base development team only comprised about 3 members of staff > working full-time on the project, thus resources were painfully > limited. Just yet another argument in favor of just providing a driver for a client-server RDBMS. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base questions
> A database like MySQL and mariadb cache the updates and then write > them to disk every 1/2 to full second (or however configured). Seems > like a good idea. I wouldn't consider MySQL and its descendents as good references for data integrity. > So I come back to my suggestion earlier today - LO Base needs to give > the user the opportunity to specify what they want - RAM or file > based, single file or multiple files. That would only confuse most end users. The point is that the developers should make the most reasonable choice - Which is imho obviously to use exclusively an external client-server RDBMS. And since the driver for PostgreSQL already comes with LO that's the best choice. PostgreSQL is legendary for its robustness. Besides shipping with a reasonable default configuration for "home" use and being perfectly scalable up to a multi-master cluster of mainframes. The developers should rather focus their limited resources on fixing bugs with the Base client side (forms, reports, etc.). > Yes, I know that you can link to other back-end db's, but LO Base > doesn't create those db's - that has to be done ahead of time by > someone that is skilled with the particular db. With PgAdmin (which comes with PostgreSQL) it's as simple as creating a new document with LO. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Base questions
> Average end-user is challenged enough just installing an O/S and > productivity suite, and learning how to use them, much less a real > RDBMS. PostgreSQL is pretty foolproof to install and use. I know what I am talking about since I am the reference fool. It may be something different if you need to maintain it for running a huge database that gets a serious load of queries and transactions and needs to be fault-tolerant, accessible from the "public" Internet etc. But for "home" or "small business" use cases it's really simple. > Plus: MS Office (Pro) has one, so LibréOffice and relatives > have to have one. Access is a dangerous heap of junk. I know of Access users who get their database corrupted roughly every four weeks on average. > Yes: Such tools should never, ever be used for anything very > important. Base looks and feels like a perfectly credible "CRUD" and reporting frontend for a database. It's just the choice of an embedded database for storage that's a mistery for me. At best, it's useless to include HSQL. At worst, it might discredit LO as a whole. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Base questions
> All the database experts and many others of us keep on recommending > using an external back-end such as Postgresql, MySql/MariaDb or > anything else. > > The devs are working on removing the current warped and ancient > version of HsqlDb and replacing it with Firebird. Using the "embedded" version of Firebird won't solve the problem. I never understood why anyone halfway sane in their minds would use an "embedded" database anyway or why the developers of StarOffice/LO/OO even considered it. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Base questions
> 1. How robust are embedded Base files created by the GUI? With an "embedded" database, any bug in the application (doesn't even have to crash) can corrupt your data. With a client-server database, it's essentially impossible for the client to corrupt the data. > 2. If they are not that reliable, what is the LO Base procedure to > create a split database? "Split"? > 3. Anything else I need to know? Use a client-server RDBMS. PostgreSQL is legendary for its reliability and the SDBC driver comes with LO. Personally I wouldn't trust a database (MySQL and its descendents) whose original developers didn't even consider it necessary to enforce foreign key constraints. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Base graphics/visualization
> I have been collecting data for over a year in Calc. I will be > rolling over to Base to use the data more effectively. One word of free advice: Avoid the "built in" database engine. Use an external client-server RDBMS. It's so much safer. The driver for PostgreSQL comes with LO. Embedded database files can too easily get corrupted. That's not necessarily a problem specific to LO and/OR HSQLDB. > However, Base has some drawbacks that I need some help with. I have > been using the Calc data to create graphs of some of the data. I did > not see a way to do this in Base directly, You can still pull the data from the database into Calc. https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=18511 > so my first question is what is the best way to create graphics in > the Base reports? Don't know about the report builder, never used it. > I'm also aware of a data visualization program called R. I have not > used R, and don't know if it will integrate with Base, or replace the > Base report altogehter. R is a statistical analysis software, implemented as a "fork" of the commercial S+. It should at least integrate with LO through Python, since Python has an interface module RPy. Or someone may have written a plugin that allows to use. Oh, here it is: http://tinyurl.com/na2fatp BTW: For anything that's not directly implementable using Calc functions and plugins, Python is a great scripting language for "data crunching" anyway, so learning it can be useful. It's not just for reporting, and not just with LO and PostgreSQL. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] OT: Social competence and technical competence (Re: Installing windows explorer extension only)
> The ones where Urmas does help are often highly technical. That > raises the question of whether Urmas is a dev and just socially > clumsy as so many are. Apparently Microsoft have recognised that many > engineers and devs have "high functioning" aspergers syndrome or, > even further along the spectrum, autism and that where both parents > have such conditions their children are much more likely to have the > condition(s). So apparently MS health insurance covers the cost of > their employees getting their children tested for just those sorts of > condition(s). Mainstream society seems to consider such conditions > as "disabilities" but it seems that in some cases they can actually > be a benefit, as long as you can accept the social awkwardness and > social clumsiness that "comes with the turf". Going out into the > wider IT community many of us probably have OCD traits and other > conditions but often at such low levels that we might not notice it. > Again a lot of this might help with the work we do but probably > doesn't help us be sociably adept. So i think we have to accept > interesting oddities in the way we and the people around us behave in > order to benefit from the thing we/they are good at. You want to bitch about "social skills" of engineers? I definitely don't want to and won't bitch about the "social skills", much less the "technical skills" of braindead slimy weasels who don't have a clue of elementary analytical-deductive logics and don't care to get one, but still arrogate to "judge" as well as perpetrate their pervert sadistic narcissistic imperiousness over those who happen to have a higher IQ than a gully cover. Because anything I could say about those apparent hominid lifeforms, no matter what words I use, would just be a recklessly embellishing, dangerously softening euphemism. FYI: *High intelligence* together with *honesty*, *sincerity*, *authenticity* and *frank speech* aren't "disabilities" on the *senders'* side. Anyone who's so cognitively challenged and pampered in their psychotic self-delusion that they can't and don't want to take facts the way they are better learn the "social skills" to deal with physical reality and stop "shooting the messenger", i.e. those who already have them. Because we others are pretty well fed up with wasting our precious lifetime and brain bandwidth shielding you useless heaps of biomass from the Darwin effect. >;-> Very sincerely, Wolfgang who keeps feeling like Nunez in the Country of the Blind when "socially" interacting with the very vast majority of conspecifics -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Need help with Base
> > I don't have a clue how to connect to a specific schema within a > > PostgreSQL database though, LO only seems to be able to connect the > > default schema. > Perhaps this might help: (chapter 5.7) > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/static/ddl-schemas.html The point is not how to create a schema from within PgAdmin. I know how to work with PostgreSQL, I've been using it for years. The point is how to connect LO to a given, existing schema in a PostgreSQL database. Of course I can set a redirection to one target schema within PostgreSQL, but that would make it impossible to connect to a different schema within the same database. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Need help with Base
> may I ask a question in line with that thread: > > a few month ago, I failed installing LO-base with PostgreSQL-DB when > I stumbled over the input request > URL of data source ? Since the PostgreSQL SDBC driver uses the native PostgreSQL protocol (way more efficient than such kludgy crutches as ODBC or JDBC), the connection string would have to look like this (one line, pairs of key=value, separated by a space): dbname=your_database_name hostaddr=127.0.0.1 port=5432 user=your_database_user password=your_password Here we are connecting to localhost (127.0.0.1). > What format should that URL have? > Some examples of formally correct URL would help. > What is a possible correct driver name? The PostgreSQL documentation lists all available options for the connection string: http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/static/libpq-connect.html in section 31.1.1. Connection Strings. I don't have a clue how to connect to a specific schema within a PostgreSQL database though, LO only seems to be able to connect the default schema. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Need help with Base
> I'm new user of LO Base, we are transitioning from MS Access, and I > need to redesign our db from it. One word of advice based on experience: Avoid use of the "built in" database. Use a proper client-server RDBMS. Preferrably PostgreSQL, as it's reliable and the driver comes with LO. Otherwise you *will* regret it the day your data has gone to Nirvana. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] direct formatting and styles
> At the risk of beating a horse to death, today I stumbled on an
> online rant against MS-Word.
>
> http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/10/why-microsoft-word-must-die.html
>
> While the entire blog is worth reading,
But in the mind of a reader who doesn't know better from personal
experience, it creates the impression that for example Wordperfect
("reveal codes") would use the same idiotic concept as Word. Or that
the very concept of an interactive document processing application
(as opposed to batch processing) was the problem. Or that "WYSIWYG" was
the problem.
Which it isn't.
E.g. Wordperfect allows to do perfectly clean structured document
processing. To the point that there has been (still exists?) a
(schema-based, validating) XML editor that looks like a twin sibling of
Wordperfect to the end user (including the style editor that actually
generates DSSSL). It just never achieved the reliability required for
actual production use.
While there is absolutely *no way* whatsoever to do "structure markup"
with Word. I know what I am talking about, I've been using that
technique before I even heard of SGML (XML didn't even exist back then)
or LaTeX because it was evidently just the natural way to write
documents with a computer. And while I've successfully managed to use
it, besides with SGML (and later XML), LaTeX, Wordperfect, Framemaker
and roughly a dozen of others, with Word it just wouldn't work (and you
bet I *did* try).
So I can perfectly invalidate the statement in comment 52:
> It also explains the slightly baffled "works for me" comments you
> hear occasionally - if you only ever use styles, and if you have a
> fully-worked-out policy on the use of styles, and if everyone sticks
> to it, presumably there genuinely would be no problems.
No, with Word it just doesn't work. And when I tried this, I was
working in a sort of "clean Word environment" with me as the single
user. It can't work, technically.
Concerning statements like the one in 153:
> If you define numbering as part of your styles (a feature that I have
> found unbreakable in Word, particularly with Word's built-in heading
> styles), long tech docs become extremely easy. And you get auto TOC
> and tables of Figures/Tables for free. A 500-page tech manual with
> numbered headings, numbered figures and lots of tables is a piece of
> cake.
I can only say - WOW. What a stunning achievement. Numbering that
actually works. TOCs and LOFs that actually work. With 500-page
documents. This just blows me away.
And how is that achieved? By *blocking* "functionality". Well, maybe it
wasn't a good idea then to actually include that crap in the first
place. Or it should have been implemented differently. With a totally
different user interface.
First of all, a 500-page tech manual isn't a tech manual. It's a
manualette. Decent technical document authoring applications allow to
work with documents that have page numbers in the 10**5 order of
magnitude (as far as printing on paper is still releveant for tech
manuals of this size). Since the 80s. I've only been contributing to
things like this since the 90s. The "old hands" used to tell me about
e.g. Interleaf back then.
The statement in 154:
> Doing the blended model was however never much of a debate within
> Microsoft as the chief architect of Word, Charles Simony brought the
> blended model with him from GUI word processors he had done at Xerox
> Parc.
>
> This model is not perfect at all, as there are many cases for user
> confusion, and having formatting tied to the "paragraph mark" can be
> confusing.
It's not confusing, it's just plain *wrong*, period.
And if that's not evident to anyone, then that individual shouldn't even
try to implement document processing software.
Libreoffice developers take note:
Nestable begin/end tags according to a structure definition
(schema/document class/template/whatever) is what is required to do
structure markup.
Period.
> The problem is that we could never invent a better model back then in
> the 90s (we tried), and nobody has been able to do it since either.
Strange that they couldn't do any better, because *every* other
document processing application I know of (except those who
mindlessly tried to parrot Word) did it "the other way" - and they
*all* got it right. Independently from each other, since "structure
markup" was "invented" in parallel by the people behind Wordperfect,
Framemaker, SGML, LaTeX and at least a dozen of other applications that
I have used myself.
The following statement in the same comment is just plain ridiculous:
> Lastly, in many ways the Word architecture is optimal. You can't do a
> word processing architecture any better. That is why nobody has
> really tried in 20 years. In Word you can open a 200,000 page
> document, and make 20 quick edits and save without it taking most of
> the afternoon.
No you can't. No one can. And no one has ever done it. And no one who
had the slightest bit of ac
Re: [libreoffice-users] Master Documents, Office Suites, and the Underwood
> Perhaps, we could get folks past the Underwood model if office suites > stopped offering that as a legitimate option for creating typeset > documents. *Proper* document processing software should indeed *enforce* total separation of structure(d content) and style information through *exclusive*, *mandatory* use of stylesheets. And thus prevent people from producing un-reuseable spaghetti garbage. Because that's what IT is about in the first place: Making content easily re-usable. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] (libreoffice-users) access data fron 2nd spreadsheet to use on 1st spreadsheet
> As you can tell I'm new to spreadsheets and computers in general, > thanks in advance for your help and patience. You want to use a relational database. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Duplicate messages
> Has anyone else been getting duplicate messages from this list? For > the past couple of days, I have been receiving messages from this > list that I had already received 2-3 days earlier. Didn't you post that question yesterday already? ;-) Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] BASE : How add data without primary key
> I want save my time. Not defining a primary key *will* cost you a *lot* of time. In fact it's such a sick idea not to define one that sane RDBMSs don't even allow it. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
> I don't believe I've heard of "structure markup style concept" and > I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I used WordPerfect for years > and could never quite get the hang of WP's styles, all the while I > took to Word's and OO's (now LO's) styles quite easily. To put it simply: Wordperfect (or e.g. Framemaker) styles allow to do "structure markup". Word, OO and LO "styles" don't. In essence, this boils down to the fact that all sane document processing applications (whether Wordperfect, Framemaker or dozens of others, LaTeX or anything that outputs structured XML) use nestable open- and close-"tags", while Word and LO/OO don't. The style concept of Wordperfect was so well designed that the original developers (Wordperfect) even implemented an XML authoring application (for structured XML, using real schemas and stylesheets, not spaghetti garbage like the "Opendocument XML") that used the Wordperfect UI, including the style editor. This application is even shipped with every copy of Corel Office, it's just mentioned or documented nowhere. The style concept of both Word and LO/OO however is so severely screwed up that I've never ever seen a document that would have allowed to re-use content in any other way (within the same application!) than by copying and pasting it as unformatted text and then re-applying all the formatting by hand. Unfortunately these days, people only "learn" with MS garbage and thus they learn document processing exactly the wrong way. And of course, the "reveal codes" view of Wordperfect at least allowed to debug documents, while there is absolutely no way to do this with Word or LO/OO documents. And I wish the source view in LyX was editable. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
> For example, several years ago, my 14 year old son challenged himself > to type a 50,000 word novel in November, which is National Novel > Writers Month. He met his goal, and quickly dropped the project. > > As a proud papa, I wanted to put his document to paper. He wrote the > original in WordPerfect, and it was a formatting mess, with stray > tabs, carriage returns, and inconsistent formatting across chapter > and section headings. I began the task of reformatting his 127 page > novel using WordPerfect, the original program. It didn't take long > for me to realize it would take days and days to wade through all of > the formatting codes inserted by WP. I have to say that unlike MS Word and its clones OO and LO, Wordperfect *does* allow proper use of styles for "structure markup". Among the dozens of different document processing applications I have used over the past 25 years, Wordperfect was one of the best for authoring strongly structured documents, at par with Framemaker. Unfortunately it fell into the hands of an incompentent company (at Corel). Obivously, nothing (besides Indesign with a *competent* typographer in front of it) beats the typographic output of LyX/LaTeX, so if you want to produce a PDF ready for print, there's no other choice. I even use it for letters. Until they get redesigned to implement a proper "structure markup" style concept and correct typographic features (all line- and page-breaking algorithms from LaTeX are open-source), LO and OO have their value mostly for "generating" documents from databases. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Serious application development with LibreOffice and LibreOffice Basic
> > With Python and a decent RAD framework (there are quite a few), you > > don't need to implement anything like that yourself. > > "and a decent RAD framework (there are quite a few)" > > Really??? Name *ONE*. using PyQt (& Sqlalchemy): Qtalchemy: www.qtalchemy.org Camelot: www.python-camelot.com Pypapi: www.pypapi.org using PyGTK: Sqlkit: sqlkit.argolinux.org (also uses Sqlalchemy) Kiwi: www.async.com.br/projects/kiwi using wxPython: Gui2Py: code.google.com/p/gui2py/ Dabo: www.dabodev.com Defis: sourceforge.net/projects/defis (Russian only) GNUe: www.gnuenterprise.org Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] LO Base/MySQL Backup??
> My question now is - Where does MySQL store the Database and how do I > track it down to make a backup?? You'll have to use the MySQL administration tool for that. LO only sees a server running at an IP address listening to a specific port. It has no means to know where the data is. And I still recommend PostgreSQL over MySQL. ;-) Among others, it allows backing up a database while "live". Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Replying to users
> Just a quick question - when on this list (users), shouldn't we keep > the sender's email in the To / Cc list when we reply-all No. > in case they haven't subscribed to the list (which makes sense if > they're just looking for support and not for helping others out). A mailinglist allowing messages from non-subscribers is imho mis-configured. > The reason I am asking this is because sometimes I see people > replying to just the users list, That's the correct way to do it. No dis-courtesy copies. Never. Sincerely, Wolfgang Having learned correct use of email and usenet 20 years ago. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: help with database
> Funny you should say that. Work has been going on to translate the > Handbook from German. I was talking about a handbook about PyUno, particularly together with, but not limited to LO Base. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Arabesque font that is really English
> I have a good Arabic font but it's in Arabic. I've got to get a > poster together for an Arabic ladies coffee morning and having > trouble finding a font that looks vaguely Arabic but is in fact > English. DOes anyone know of a good free one? https://www.google.de/search?q=arabic+looking+font Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Base data-loss and other problems
> Late last year I converted to MySQL as the Backend and Base as the > Front End. WHAT A DIFFERENCE As I said to people it's like > getting out of your old broken-down, unreliable Beetle and driving > around in the latest Rolls Royce!! Solid, fast, never crashes and is > just fantastic!! MySQL isn't a "Rolls Royce". PostgreSQL would be a Lexus LS. MySQL would rather be... *thinking* ...a Moskvitch? Or a ZIL? Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: help with database
> There are mysql objects you can not create > from within LO Base, even if you have already got one table defined. *Any* "generic" (i.e. not vendor-specific) database design/development/etc. tool will always only cover a lowest common denominator in terms of functionality. > LO Base is not FMPro (unfortunately), nor Access, not Lotus Approach, > and I seriously doubt that it ever will be. I would never trade PostgreSQL with any of those. And if LO could get around to publish tutorials and handbooks for PyUno together with Base, that could be "quite helpful", since both LO Base and PyUno are at about The Best Kept Secrets Of LibreOffice/OpenOffice. Together with Calc for reporting and R (http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/project/R4Calc) for statistical analysis, this could be a "killer" application for LO/OO in corporate environments. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Paragraph styles
> I never even try to share documents between different programs, such > as Word and LO or OO. I never even try to share documents between two users using both the same program *and* the same document template, if the program is Word (or LO /OO). With these applications, the re-use of content is exclusively limited to raw, unformatted text. Trying anything else will drive you up the walls. If you need collaborative authoring, you need something that *imposes* a pre-defined document structure (such as e.g. an XML schema, LaTeX document classes unfortunately are not as restrictive) and thus absolutely locks out *any* possiblity of "finger-painting", and preferrably something that also provides seamless integration for revision control systems such as e.g. Subversion. With LyX/LaTeX, structured XML authoring applications (or some document processing applications like Worperfect or Framemaker, provided the authors are perfectly disciplined), collaborative authoring is possible to a certain degree. With Word (or LO/OO) it is strictly impossible at any reasonable degree of efficiency. If there was a way in LO/OO to imperatively re-strict the user interface for a certain document to the application of styles defined within the document, this might improve things, but given how styles are implemented in LO/OO, I doubt that it would really work. Besides that styles don't hold structure information anyway, since templates aren't schemas in LO/OO. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Paragraph styles
> Do you use styles? The point with OO/LO is that unfortunately, like Word, its style concept does not allow to work in the "structure markup" way. So, even if you tried to use styles consistently, you wouldn't be able to benefit from it the way you can with e.g. LyX/LaTeX or document processors like Wordperfect or Framemaker (or any other document processing application that I know of - except LO/OO and Word). Just look at the official documentation (which would be supposed to be a showcase of how to work with LO) and try to work with it. For example, to make the documents actually readable, try something as simple as replacing the body text typeface with one actually made for readable text. In any document processing application with a well-implemented style concept, this would require the change of one single definition in one style. With LO/OO, just like with Word, you're in for a whole day of work. Because you'll have to modify each and every style individually and besides, due to invisible (and incorrectible) "bugs" in the formatting parts of the documents will still require manual re-formatting. And once you're done with that, besides a seriously strained wrist, you still have an unstructured spaghetti document. This is why I wouldn't use LO to teach what structure markup (e.g. "styles") is about in the first place. And why I don't use it for *writing* documents. Only for generating them from databases. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Serious application development with LibreOffice and LibreOffice Basic
> At one client, this week's production check-in of an application > developed in MS Office (mostly Access) 2007/2010 code is now up to: > 110,315 LOCs, 380 Modules, 249 Stored Procedures, and counting... They probably need that much code because VBA is so poor (while also being quite vociferous), both as a language and concerning the libraries available. > This is a client/server application backing up to a SQL back-end > database. > > I am interested in the capabilities of LibreOffice Basic along the > same lines. > > The documentation for LibreOffice Basic seems very space compared to > MS VBA. An actual application with more logic than just CRUD would very probably gain a lot if it was implemented in a rich, powerful language such as Python which profits from a vast module library. Since the Python API of LO (not only Base) is essentially undocumented, this would require an actual GUI framework, however. > I have double class wrapped each logical type of data record. One > level is the DB table class, which manages INSERT / UPDATE / SELECT > type operations with a consistent interface. The next class layer is > a Validation class which handles DB class to Form Control mapping > (to/from) and also performs data type validation on the fields, marks > bad data fields red/error, and so on. Also I make extensive use of > in-memory collection classes: Thing / Things classes, where the > Things class contains one/many Thing class object instances. With Python and a decent RAD framework (there are quite a few), you don't need to implement anything like that yourself. > At first I would like to use MySQL as the BE DB for use with > LibreOffice. That's a B-A-D idea if you want to get your data back in a consistent state with a certain reliability. Use PostgreSQL instead. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] definition of flat/relational database
> May I suggest you to contact Kexi main developer, Jarosław Staniek, > with this proposal? You will find his e-mail address here: I'm subscribed to the Kexi mailinglist, and the subject has been regularly invoked by various users there. Without composite keys you can't even implement M:N relationships in a way that warrants data integrity. > From what I see on KDE forums, he seems to be rather responsive and > friendly about users propositions. Yes, definitely. This project would merit "a bit" help. > It might be (might!) that no one has proposed this feature and if > somebody step in, it will be implemented in near future. I would guess the main issue is that Kexi has to re-implement a lot of functionality and the developers are not that numerous. I even wonder whether the plural is justified here. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] definition of flat/relational database
> > If LO Base is not enough for you because you need more application > > logic, then there are two VFP developers who have implemented their > > own successor to VFP. Cross-platform, open-source, free. It's > > called Dabo (www.dabodev.com) and it uses Python as the programming > > language. If you've ever learned any programming language, learning > > Python will be a no-brainer. > > > > There are a couple of other database application development > > frameworks for Python (even LO Base can be scripted with Python, > > although that's one of the best kept secrets of LO), but Dabo has > > been specifically made by (ex-)VFP developers for (ex-)VFP > > developers. > > Didn't know about this one yet! Thanks for the info. I''l take a look > at it. > > Sometime ago I had some success with Glom (www.glom.org). Maybe it > meets the needs of the other posters. The others I know of would be: using wxPython: Dabohttp://www.dabodev.com (already mentioned) Defis http://sourceforge.net/projects/defis/ (Russian only) GNUehttp://www.gnuenterprise.org/ using PyQt: Pypapi http://www.pypapi.org Camelot http://www.python-camelot.com/ Qtalchemy http://www.qtalchemy.org/ Thyme http://clocksoft.co.uk/downloads/ Kexihttp://www.kexi-project.org/ using PyGTK: SQLkit http://sqlkit.argolinux.org/ Kiwihttp://www.async.com.br/projects/kiwi/ Glomhttp://www.glom.org Openoffice Base http://www.openoffice.org/product/base.html Libreoffice Base http://www.libreoffice.org/features/base/ OpenERP http://www.openerp.org Tryton http://www.tryton.org Dabo (they're about to release 1.0 for Pycon), Pypapi, Camelot, SQLkit seem to be the most actively developed and best documented ones. OpenERP and Tryton are ERP systems that can also be used as frameworks for non-ERP custom applications. Apparently defunct: Pythoncard http://pythoncard.sourceforge.net/ Boa Constructor http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/ Knoda http://www.knoda.org/ Rekall ? Gemello http://abu.sourceforge.net/ Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] definition of flat/relational database
> I am still waiting for a database program that will allow > me to create applications (not pieces of applications, like queries > and forms) without having to learn C (this old dog is not going to > learn that new trick!). If LO Base is not enough for you because you need more application logic, then there are two VFP developers who have implemented their own successor to VFP. Cross-platform, open-source, free. It's called Dabo (www.dabodev.com) and it uses Python as the programming language. If you've ever learned any programming language, learning Python will be a no-brainer. There are a couple of other database application development frameworks for Python (even LO Base can be scripted with Python, although that's one of the best kept secrets of LO), but Dabo has been specifically made by (ex-)VFP developers for (ex-)VFP developers. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] definition of flat/relational database
> I don't know if it will be suitable, but you can try Kexi (part of > Calligra suite, I believe; but you can install it separately). I > heard it is much better than LO Base, but I don't know enough to > verify that statement. Kexi will become usable as soon as it supports composite (natural) keys. It's a pity that Knoda, Rekall etc. have vanished or died without anyone picking up the code behind the original developers, so that Kexi is now the n-th re-implementation of the same functionality. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] definition of flat/relational database
> Why do the Libreoffice powers that be define dbase/xbase as a flat > file database, not a relational database. The main issue for me would be whether the database "management system" (some call it "engine" or whatever) actually enforces relational integrity (foreign key constraints) between tables. In case of directly writing to DBF files from LO Base, I would guess there's no enforcement. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Looking for PyUno Contributor(s)
> If I'm incorrect, please let me know what is correct - but I'm pretty > sure that someone with some PyUno skills will be needed. I would guess that those are rare, since PyUNO is at about the best kept secret of LO(/OO). Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Development of Extensions for LibreOffice
> Via Simon Phipps on Twitter: > > "We're rewriting the LibreOffice wizards in Python > because we can no longer be sure Java will be there" > -- Michael Meeks, #FOSDEM Hopefully then Python will replace Basic too. And maybe there might even be some documentation for LO/Python some day. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base Report Builder
> Lol! I liked that post. Very funny. The reality is much less funny for all screen-labourslaves who have to work in those pathologically dysfunctional organisations. > I thought PostgreSQL was for large databases? It's for anything. > Also i thought Firebird was supposed to be quite good? Among FOSS client-server RDMBS, Firebird probably comes in second after PostgreSQL, that's right. But if I have any choice, I choose PostgreSQL. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: LO Writer UI Analysis
> > MS has always been at the antipode of ergonomics. And they keep > > moving in the *wrong* direction. "Ribbons" ... are just the latest > > cerebral flatulances > > emanating from their "product managers' "brains". > > Lol! This is *not at all* fun for those screen-labourslaves who are concerned. By software that, acccording to EU regulations, has been outlawed 13 years ago. > BTW: The younger (LO) users are the more they accept Ribbons [1]. Because gamekiddies don't have a clue what efficient *work* with computers means. And they don't have a clue of what halfway ergonomic application software can be like. I have ~25 years of experience as an information worker, mostly producing long, structured documents with various applications, on various operating systems. > Ribbon controls intend to show all at once, as Astron says. They are a hopeless anti-ergonomic mess. > Additionally, MS wants to get rid of the main menu for touch screen > use. No halfway proficient screenworker who needs to get actual work done efficiently will ever use "touchscreens". Most don't even use mice, most of the time. > > It has been proven over and over again that "separator" lines do > > *NOT* "separate". They effectively do the *opposite*, besides adding > > elements that are just confusing for the eyes. > > Please prove this statement. No I won't, because it obscenely evident to anyone who has ever tried to get a clue of visual ergonomics. E.g. the rule to (almost) never use "seperation lines" in tables is as old as LaTeX, iirc. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base Report Builder
> I have heard that corporates love to have their valuable data in java > based backends That's because corporations are intrinsicly dysfunctional organisations that promote opportunist egomaniacs who have no competence in any other field than careerism into those positions where they can cause the maximum damage to the entity. FOSS projects shouldn't try to mimic corporate pathologies. > but is there something safer that is still good for smaller amounts > of data? There's no (FOSS) RDBMS that beats PostgreSQL. And LO has a native driver for it. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base scenario
> I have the following - > A Members Table called 'Members' with > > * The Key being 'RecordID'. INT, Auto, > * Plus the rest of my 70-odd fields.. (This table comes up > in my "Main Form") 70 fields in one table? Sounds like this database may be de-normalised: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_normalization > I have now added another table called 'eMail' which has . > > * The Key being 'MessageID', INT, Auto > * Plus the rest of the fields for Date, Type, Title and Message. > (All TXT) > * The final Field is called 'MembersID', INT, NOT Auto, > You mention a "Foreign Key' which maybe the answer to what I'm trying > to do but how do I declare the RecordID/MembersID Relationship? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_key The Libreoffice Base handbook hasn't been entirely translated yet: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/b/bb/BG3401-IntroducingBase.pdf https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/6/65/PlanningDesigningYourDatabase_DEL_20120809.odt https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/0/06/Data_input_and_removal_DEL_20121106.odt Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead
> > that's the way it is and that's why currently I don't use LO Writer > > for anything else than for converting .doc files to .pdf > I might just be something a little bit above a IT moron but using LO > Writer to convert doc into pdf appears to me like using a tractor to > participate in a F1 race or using an F1 race car to plough a field. > Why not installing a pdf-writer SW, there are even free-of-charge > versions available. The point is that you do not only need a printer driver to generate the PDF, but also an application that can open those .doc, .ppt etc. files. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: documentation for LO base
> I use it at the office for time registration and invoicing. At home > for the Taekwon-do club membership. Should I perceive that as a threat? >;-> > It's actually marvelous in combination with postgresql SDBC driver. > And actually useful as it is so easy to get your data to Calc, more > useful then I remember Access. In fact that's also the only application case that I would consider using Calc and Writer for in their current state - for graphing and printing database data. Imho the most logical and least error-prone way to use Calc is to do all your calculations in PostgreSQL and only display and graph the results in Calc. *Never* do complex calculations in Calc. > It always hurts a bit when people who don't use databases say that > Base is not good, databases are not useful etc. Because they don't have a use for it (pure letter-writers for home-use) or because they don't have a clue (most office users). > I know a lot of people that never use a spreadsheet either. But I > think LO wouldn't be complete with Calc or Base. You mean withOUT, I presume? Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead
> But Ooo/LO does use structure markup. All .odt/.ods documents are XML > files. XML is just syntax. It does not necessarily imply structure markup, as shown by e.g. .docx and .odt. Just unzip an .odt document and open contents.xml in a XML editor to see what "spaghetti xml" looks like. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] MS problems
> Since the average IQ is around 60 (or something utterly abysmal like > that) i don't think intelligent decision-making really entered the > equation. The average IQ is - per definition - equal to 100. It's even calibrated to be a normal distribution. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: documentation for LO base
> Just like MSAccess, Base is extremely useful as a frontend for > database engines. The last time I tried to run a non-trivial query (involving a join) from Access against PostgreSQL, the result was a never-ending cursor animation. It seems that Access fetches *all* records from the database and runs the query locally. > You must not use the built-in JET engine with Access. HSQL is an > excellent platform independent database engine but you must not embed > HSQL in extensions which are installed and repackaged every time you > "open" or "close" the so called "database document". "Embedding" databases anywhere is imho nonsense. Database *content* can imho be passed around between users in a pretty fool-proof way as a zipped SQL dump, if required. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead
> > Everything that you get from LaTeX: structure markup instead of
> > spaghetti formatting, parameterized formatting, etc...
> >
> > Instead of clicking through dozens of dialogboxes for each and every
> > line of text, slide title, list item, figure, etc. to get
> > everything the way you want it, you just change a few parameters
> > once for the whole document and that's it.
>
> LibO/OOo already provides this. As did MS Word 5.x for DOS around
> 1994.
MS Word 5.0 for DOS was published in 1989. As the first document
processing software in history that couldn't print. Because MS was
unable/too lazy to supply printer drivers in time for the release.
> It's called "styles". Which incidentally don't provide only
> formatting information, but also tell the word processor where that
> particular paragraph (or title) sites in the document hierarchycal
> structure.
The point with MS Word, as (unfortunately) with LO Writer is, that,
unlike e.g. Wordperfect or FrameMaker their document model is thoroughly
unstructured ("spaghetti"), and the way "styles" are implemented they do
not allow to "emulate" "structure markup" convincingly.
As soon as you try to author significantly complex documents with it you
will notice this. At least if you've ever done similar work with
document processing software that does allow to use "structure markup".
I've used over a dozen different document processing applications over
the past >20 years, and from day one I have always used "structure
markup" without even knowing about the expression since for me it was
just the natural way to work with documents, but I've never used a
document processing software that made "structure markup" as thoroughly
impossible as MS Word or LO/OO.
> > I just cited LaTeX as one example for structure markup. Other
> > examples are Wordperfect or Framemaker. My point is that LO should
> > not keep the MS Office-style "spaghetti" content models that were
> > already outdated in the 80s and pile up features on top, but
> > instead LO should focus on providing a functional concept that
> > allows users to work with documents in a more structured and thus
> > more efficient way. MS Office is by far the worst "example" in the
> > market. And, as such, the example *not* to follow.
>
> Are you complaining that OpenDocument format (which not long ago
> became an ISO standard) uses a "spaghetti content model" ?
Unfortunately, LO/OO is just a 1:1 clone of MS Office. And yes, the MS
"document model" is plain spaghetti, as is LO/OO's. It's a pity, but
that's the way it is and that's why currently I don't use LO Writer for
anything else than for converting .doc files to .pdf.
The problem with Calc is the same, btw: Instead of "cloning" a good,
well designed example (i.e. Lotus Improv), it is just a 1:1 clone of the
worst spreadhseet available, i.e. "Excel" (what an orwellish branding).
Sincerely,
Wolfgang
--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] MS problems
> I think the market share of MSO has nothing to do with the users > being idiots or not. The 90% share is caused by 3 things *snip* > 2 - Not many people know about alternatives. That's what I call ignorance. Ignorance plus unwillingness to inform oneself to remedy that ignorance equals idiocy. I don't have anything against idiots, as long as they don't impose their idiocy onto me. > 3 - Many IT departments in companies choose MSO because it is easily > available and they consider the support as good. IT departments, just like "managers" "choose" (in fact, they don't choose at all) MS because it's not them who have to do the actual work, so they can't have a clue. And because they're too lazy and ignorant to get some input from the information workers who have to do the actual work. > Keep in mind that introduction of an alternative suit requires a lot > of testing in an IT department. The suit must be stable and keep > productivity high. With MS products, user productivity will be minimised compared to all available alternatives. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] documentation for LO base
> I am going to stick my head above the parapet and say it should have > an embedded database functionality that is secure and reliable. Since recently, LO comes with a native driver for PostgreSQL. That's probably the best thing that the LO developers have done for quite some time. Since it makes LO Base actually useable *and a lot better* than Access (which is unusable with PostgreSQL). > That is an essential requirement for entry-level users that have only > ever used Access. Reliability? As an essential requirement for Access users? Huh? Access is a pathological data shredder. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] MS problems
> So, until LO and/or LO and/or Symphony--my first choice-- can *really* > read MS documents, I will have to use a Windows program. Which I > really don't mind, except that I have to move the files and boot > another OS. See www.winehq.org. On an *operating* system that actually deserves that designation, it runs Windows applications better than Windows itself. I.e. with far less "cursor animation syndrome". Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] MS problems
> If MSO is a 90% market leader all its users cannot be complete idiots. Thank you for this statement that clearly illustrates the typical "pointy haired think" (i.e. un-think) of "leaders" (and their followers). > The very simple fact is: LibO has to become better in a SWOT > analysis! And what color should that SWOT analysis have? Would Mauve have enough RAM? Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] documentation for LO base
> Is there any documentation for LibreOffice Base? In german language, yes. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/d/d4/06_BH_Gesamtband_V35_einseitig.pdf It's probably in the process of being translated. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] MS problems
> A.so in your opinion people - both young and old - not yet > knowing anything about computers, perhaps buying their first unit, > are - not only "IT-illiterate" but also "morons" The point is not whether someone is IT-illiterate or not, but whether (s)he is aware of the limits of his/her IT competence or not. And whether (s)he arrogates to impose his/her "decisions" onto those people who have to do the actual work despite his/her demonstrated incompetence. > B.so you agree that among these "IT-illiterate morons (= idiots)" > are bosses, persons in chief position (managers). It is (unfortunately) indeed an empirical fact that people who are career-competent enough to usurp a "management position" in a hierarchically structured organisation are *exclusively* career competent. > When responsible for their dept's/company's strategic The usage of the word "strategy" or "strategic" etc. empirically indicates pretty well the main focus of the author of the corresponding statement - cheaptalk. > and operative effectiveness and economical result, these > "IT-illiterate morons" decide about the need of an IT-department -- > and employ an IT-manager to that department to take care of the > company's IT-system, programs and personnel included. See my other reply concerning the (all too well known and too well documented) antipattern of dedicated "IT departments". > C. Obviously you qualify yourselves as highly "IT-literate" -- > perhaps even "non-morons". I never made any statement like that. But given the level of (not only IT-related) competence that you exhibit through your statements, it doesn't seem to take much to be more competent. > Some weeks ago LibO invited people to take part to make LibO better. > Would it not be an good idea that you - instead of blaming others - > took the opportunity to practice your high quality IT-knowledge to > the benefit of LibO. My original message with the ID 20120925175229.00e623b1a418830757ecd...@gmx.net contains a few recommendations for potential conceptual improvements to LO from the perspective of an experienced information worker who has also used something else than MS Office and LO. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] MS problems
> In many (most) companies/organizations (other than IT) the managers
> have quite little own knowledge in IT why they do not have many
> alternatives: they have to buy the IT from outside (more or less)
> experts or build up a IT-dept of their own.
Dedicated IT departments are well known and well documented to be *the*
most important organisational pathology ("antipattern") that ruins
productivity of information workers in companies.
> And if all (95% ?) your important contacts, customers, officials,
> private, etc. use Windows, and all of your own staff know (only)
> Windows/MSO then the economic calculation says that you must "talk
> the same language" -- you can not afford anything else.
If you had ever tried to do the work of an average information worker,
you would know that "compatibility" in the real world (where the actual
work has to be done) means efficient re-use of content. And that, in
this sense, Microsoft is incompatible with itself, because the
unstructered spaghetti content model of MS applications does not allow
for efficient re-use of content. In fact it is more efficient to re-use
content from, e.g. an MS Word document with e.g. LyX rather than with MS
Word itself.
> I strongly disagree with you about Jay's and Wolfgang' s behavior -
> take a look at my parallel post "MS problems" some minutes earlier.
> If these managers concentrate on their own jobs - and buy the IT - it
> does not qualify them to be called "IT-illiteral morons" as Jay and
> Wolfgang did.
It does not only qualify them as "IT illiterate" morons, but also as
generally illiterate concerning analytical, pertinent problem solving.
If one would categorise the competence of people in a similar manner as
Wolfgang Pauli categorised scientific theories, typical managers would
have to be attributed to the category of "not even incompetent" people.
Because they are obviously incompetent, but pretend otherwise *and*
arrogate the power to "decide".
> In 30 years I have had no problems (!) with the Windows' programs
> (the cost are a relative matter),
Because you never tried to do actual information work with it. And/or
because you never tried to do actual information work with *efficient*
worktools.
Sincerely,
Wolfgang
--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] MS problems
> Just had a classic from my boss. *snip* > He still says there is no problem with IE. The point is not that there are plenty of hopelessly IT-illiterate morons out there, the point is imho that it's exactly these IT-illiterate morons who "decide" about what those people who have to do the actual work have to "work" with. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead
> As an engineer, now retired, I used BASIC for many years, then took > a class in Pascal and wrote some code in Pascal. You are correct-- > all I wanted, in almost all cases, was command-line input and screen > or print (or both) output. I first wrote BASIC on a teletype machine > connected by acoustic modem to a mainframe somewhere in Texas. Obviously at that time, Python wasn't available yet. ;-) X-( Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead
> > - actually useful formatting concepts for presentations like e.g. > > LaTeX Beamer provides. > > Could you elaborate? I don't know Beamer (I have heard the name, but > never really used it) and I am interested in knowing what it has to > offer that LO is not capable of. Everything that you get from LaTeX: structure markup instead of spaghetti formatting, parameterized formatting, etc... Instead of clicking through dozens of dialogboxes for each and every line of text, slide title, list item, figure, etc. to get everything the way you want it, you just change a few parameters once for the whole document and that's it. > As side note of my question: I don't think that LO should mimic every > feature of LaTeX, especially WYSIWYM approach (instead of current > WYSIWYG). I strongly believe that target group of LibreOffice is > different than target group of LaTeX. LaTeX is already free, vital > community exists, there are dedicated editors - users who prefer > LaTeX approach can just use LaTeX. I just cited LaTeX as one example for structure markup. Other examples are Wordperfect or Framemaker. My point is that LO should not keep the MS Office-style "spaghetti" content models that were already outdated in the 80s and pile up features on top, but instead LO should focus on providing a functional concept that allows users to work with documents in a more structured and thus more efficient way. MS Office is by far the worst "example" in the market. And, as such, the example *not* to follow. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead
> What language one first learns is often determined by what is used in > the "Introduction to Programming" courses and of course when you took > the course. I know a few colleges used VB for their introductory > course in the States. If I was looking for a university for studying computer science, this would already disqualify them. >;-> > I know of Canadian university that use Python. What type of > programming you do determines the language you tend use and find in > your work place. Python is for free and runs essentially on anything that deserves the designation "operating system". Heck, it even runs on that "market-leading" non-operating system from that corporation based in Seattle. So you can "find" it anywhere you work. > Whether one learned VB depends on ones situation and needs. I have > done some VBA programming because where I worked need some automation > of spreadsheet calculations for Excel spreadsheets. On Windows, Python can be used to script anything that has a COM interface. I've already used it for scripting Excel, among others. > My intro to programming was originally in Fortran IV (aka Fortrash) > and later Pascal. I started with Pascal, then went on to Fortran. I deliberately forgot all the C that I had to learn to pass an exam. Python is the only programming/scripting language that I learned of my own choice. Simply because it's the only language that I know of that does what I need: Cross-platform, ad-hoc scripting as well as full-scale programming, interfacing with anything that has any kind of interface, syntax made for humans, loads of libraries for essentially any application... Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead
> On 18/09/2012 at 20:13, Doug wrote: > > > Note, too, that the old argument, "I bought it, > > so it's mine," will be out the window--if it's rented, it clearly > > is not yours to copy, etc. > > As far as I remember, it was never yours. Most EULAs forbid e.g. > reselling of box copy. They clearly state that they grant you right > to use software, nothing more. Depends on legislation & jurisdiction in the relevant country. Over here where I currently subsist, Microsofts' "EULA" is afaik essentially illegal and irrelevant. Especially concerning the "reselling interdiction". This has been ruled out in court something like two decades ago or so. The most irrelevant part of Microsoft's EULA is the one that states that if any clause of the EULA is invalidated in court, all other clauses shall still apply. Because it's afaik a very basic principle of jurisdiction over here that if the judge considers any clause of an EULA (or any other contract) as deliberately abusive, then the entire contract is invalid as a whole and the court will establish the rules to apply. I'm not a lawyer, however. I've just read an article written by some lawyer about the subject a long time ago. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead
> Most features one needs have been include in office suites since the > some time in the 90's. I can not think of a feature that I want see > implemented that is not already implemented. Objection. instead of braindeadly cloning MS "features", which are mostly based on cerebral flatulances emanating from "product managers" and similar pointy-haired lifeforms, free software should imho instead demonstrate how to increase user productivity by focusing on intelligent functional concepts. For example: - genuine "structure markup", like e.g. Wordperfect or Framemaker provide. Instead of the "spaghetti" document model of MS Word. - readable typesetting, such as e.g. LaTeX provides. - possibilities to structure spreadsheets (like e.g. Lotus 1-2-3 did or Quantrix Modeler still provides), use symbolic variable names (same examples to follow) and a reasonably human-readable formula syntax instead of the nestable-functional "spaghetti" mess à la Excel. - actually useful formatting concepts for presentations like e.g. LaTeX Beamer provides. - etc. and so on Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: MS raised prices so people will now start renting their office products instead
> My guess the group that complains the most about switching because of > macros would be the second group Objection. The point is that those people who actually use "office software" in companies have absolutely no influence on what they work with. It's the manangsters and administrictators who (pretend to) "decide" about this. > because they only know a few languages at most (VBA and what they > languages they learned as an undergraduate) I don't know any scientist or engineer who has ever learned Visual Basic at university. And I know only *very* few who have *ever* learned it at all. > and do not want to learn another since their primary function is not > programming. A lot of scientists and engineers, if they use any scripting/programming languages for "software automation" etc. tend to prefer languages that provide an interactive commandline interpreter, besides other criteria that VBA doesn't fulfil. A lot of those I know have learned Python as their genuine "bread and butter" scripting & programming language. Some even learn it as a "first language" at university these days. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Where to store a simple database?
> I have been eagerly migrating all my usage from Microsoft Office to > LO, and I would appreciate some advice on converting from Access. *snip* > So SQL access to the data is vital. The data is stored > in Dropbox so it can be accessed from Windows or Ubuntu easily - but > never simultaneously. I do have access to a MySQL server as part of > my web hosting but I would rather not bother with setting one up > locally for just this application. "Setting up" and using a PostgreSQL server locally, especially since the SDBC driver now comes with LibreOffice, is trivial. And there's nothing that's available for free that will keep your data safer (from corruption) than PostgreSQL. You don't even have to "install" PostgreSQL to use it, but of course it will be more convenient to use then. Sincerely, Wolfgang Keller -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
