Re: Is this true ?

[DJ Delorie]

Lee Thomas Stephen  writes:
> With Great Power comes great responsibility (Spiderman movie)

Wasn't the original quote "With great power there must also come great
responsibility" ?

The shorter version implies the responsibility is part of the power, but
the longer version creates an onus to provide the responsibility
yourself.

> I wonder whether the current generation of Redhatters knows the power
> that they wield.

Yes, which is why we believe in free software and open source.  We want
others to have that power for themselves, too.
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Re: pipewire and wireplumber

[DJ Delorie]

Roger Heflin  writes:
> He has a graphical login session.

I very clearly stated that I did not.  I boot to a text login prompt,
log in, and run "exec xinit .xsession -- -listen tcp -retro" (I have a
script for it called "x" :)

I've never had much luck getting login managers to run my weird
environment correctly.

> I am going to guess he is using straight-X windows with one of the
> ancient simple window managers (twm, mwm).

fvwm2 :-)

> DJ: are you the same DJ Delorie that did the work 30 years ago on
> djgcc for DOS?  If so, that was some good work.  I used it for some
> image processing work.

Yes.  You're welcome!  It's always good to hear that someone found my
work useful.
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Re: pipewire and wireplumber

[DJ Delorie]

"R. G. Newbury"  writes:
> If you don't mind answering, was it a Rhode Island Red cockerel or a hen 
> which you sacrificed to learn these arcane secrets? And, full-moon at 
> midnight, or dark of the moon? Or did this take moving up to a goat?

It took a LOT of googling to find the one person who mentioned it
elsewhere in the space-time continuum.

> Or are you a graduate of Hogwarts? Because I am quite sure that none of 
> these snippets show up anywhere in the so-called documentation. Pure 
> magic, just like any sufficiently advanced technology.

IIRC it was Arch's or Gentoo's forums that had this bare-metal-gem.
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Re: pipewire and wireplumber

[DJ Delorie]

Geoffrey Leach  writes:
> Is there a 'Getting Started With pipewire' and/or wireplumber
> somewhere? Or should they 'just work' and I need to check my
> connections?

As a non-gnome (and non-display-manager) user, I share these .xsession
snippets:

# Required by pipewire, at least
export XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=$(mktemp -d /tmp/$(id -u)-runtime-dir.XXX)

# Required by most things
eval `dbus-launch --sh-syntax --exit-with-session`

pipewire &
pipewire-pulse &
(sleep 2 ; wireplumber & ) &


There wasn't a pipewire-specific config; it uses the same ALSA backend
as pulseaudio used.
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Re: how to control webcam.

[DJ Delorie]

"home user"  writes:
>> guvcview has a "-z" option to bring it up in control-only mode,
>
> I did not see that option in the man page.  How did you know (or find out) 
> about it?

I ran "guvcview --help" and hoped it printed help :-)
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Re: how to control webcam.

[DJ Delorie]

I use gtk-v4l to control the webcam during meetings

guvcview has a "-z" option to bring it up in control-only mode,
otherwise it grabs the video stream too.
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[DJ Delorie]

ToddAndMargo via users  writes:
> So RHEL's "prioritization" is different from mine

Yes, which is why RHEL is not the best choice for you.  I'm OK with
that, but there's no reason to take it so personally.  "Doesn't do what
I want" is not the same as "RHEL is trash."

> It does not matter that bugs reported from the community would
> strengthen the overall health of the the product.

We do care about the community, and we do fix bugs reported by the
community.  We do this in this other project called "Fedora" so if
that's what you want, that's what you should use ;-)

(although, ironically, I'm currently working on backporting to RHEL an
upstream patch set that wasn't requested by a customer)
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Re: What are the differences between RHEL and Fedora Server?

[DJ Delorie]

ToddAndMargo via users  writes:
> The idea is that you can rely on things, including the locked in bugs,

As someone who has a full time job fixing bugs in RHEL, I can
emphatically state that this is not the case at all.

If you want a bug fixed in RHEL, contact your RHEL account manager or
file a RHEL bug.  We prioritize bug fixes according to customer need and
impact.  For example, we won't fix a bug that requires an ABI change if
we promise no ABI changes, etc.  But this is what our customers want.

You seem to have a bias against RHEL but the things you list as weak
points are considered benefits by others.  When an OS upgrade with
recertification could take MONTHS, you absolutely want something that's
not going to change for years on end, yet still has security fixes and
tech support behind it.

> In my technical opinion, RHEL is trash,

Please stop trash-talking something just because it isn't the best
choice for you.  Choose something more appropriate and move on.
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Re: DNF remove only?

[DJ Delorie]

Geoffrey Leach  writes:
> A package has been broken and needs to be re-installed. DNF sees the
> package as installed and won't take any action. DNF remove removes
> dependencies, so that's a solution, but requires considerable work and
> is frught with problems.

Use "dnf download" to get the RPM in question, and use RPM to reinstall
it.  Then you have more options.
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Re: why the long pause after bash "command not found"?

[DJ Delorie]

"Robert P. J. Day"  writes:
>   what in the name of mutt is bash doing all that time? if there's no
> such command, why the long pause in giving me a new prompt?

It's probably trying to give you a clue on how to install the right
package to get that command.

Try removing PackageKit-command-not-found if you don't want that
"feature".
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Re: Need a statement on Fedora's purpose

[DJ Delorie]

ToddAndMargo via users  writes:
> Okay one last slam at RHEL:

As someone who works full-time on RHEL[*], please consider that your
understanding of what RHEL is and who it is for may color your
experience with it.  You are not the ideal RHEL customer, so of course
it doesn't meet your strict needs for constant change, bug-free
operation, and free support.

And perhaps your time is not as valuable to you as it is to the myriad
employees who have to qualify and certify their applications on a dozen
or more operating systems and a wide range of specific hardware
configurations just to make a living, but feel free to self-certify
anything you use if that's what you need, or hire someone to do it on
your behalf.

I hope you find a distro that makes you happy, but please don't consider
other distros to be "bad" just because they aren't right for you.


[*] and Fedora, and upstream, but I officially speak for none of them...
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Re: hdmi monitor blanks when starting some apps

[DJ Delorie]

Rick Stevens  writes:
> Is the window for the app on the HDMI monitor?

No.

> It may simply be that the monitor is adapting to the size of the
> display desired.

I have four monitors configured as one desktop, they should never change
resolution.
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hdmi monitor blanks when starting some apps

[DJ Delorie]

I have multiple monitors on my system, one of which is HDMI (the rest
are DP or DVI).  It's not the main monitor.  When I start some apps
(esp games), the HDMI monitor blanks for a few seconds until the app's
window comes up (not full screen).

Is this a normal thing?  Can it be prevented?

Fedora 24
GTX980
nvidia drivers
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evolution tweaks ?

[DJ Delorie]

Just upgraded to F24 and there are a few things about Evolution I
don't like...

1. the left-hand calendar pane uses white-on-blue for the "shown"
   days, as well as the weekday-name rows.  How do I change the
   colors?

2. The "Select Today" button scrolls the big month view window to the
   start of the current month.  How do I make it scroll to the start
   of the current week instead?  I have no need to see what's already
   happened, but it used to show me the 4-5 upcoming weeks.

3. Scroll wheel in the calendar side pane scrolls the months, but
   leaves the selection in the same place on the screen - effectively
   scrolling the months in the big pane.  How do I get it to leave the
   big pane alone until I click on a date?  Or at least leave it alone
   until its 'selection' would bump off the top/bottom of the side
   pane?  (i.e. I want to see the next 4 weeks in the big window, and
   the next 4 months in the side window).
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Re: systemd vs. autofs/nfs

[DJ Delorie]

"David A. De Graaf"  writes:
> Only when the remote machine fails to respond is the nfs umount
> command blocked.  It then waits for a response that will not and
> cannot come.  That's what's dumb.

I've had this happen to me.  I even waited about 20 minutes to see if it
would *ever* time out.  It didn't.  Had to hard-reset the machine to
reboot it, with the usual risks to filesystem data.
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Re: Monitor / graphics card recommendation

[DJ Delorie]

Doug  writes:
> Are you sure you really want such a large monitor?

Heh.  I have four monitors, the biggest is a 40" Seiki 4k.  Total width
is about six feet.  For my purposes, more pixels is definitely better!

(F20 with a GTX980, proprietary blob, multi-purpose)
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Re: Fedora upgrade recovery procedures?

[DJ Delorie]

Dave Shaw dave.sha...@gmail.com writes:
 So am I out of luck here, or is there some kind of recovery possible?

Reminds me of how often I get to test my backups... because the only
times I've needed my full backups is right after a failed install.
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Re: Good Fedora-compatible multi-monitor video card recommendation

[DJ Delorie]

Digimer li...@alteeve.ca writes:
 What would be a good (as in, relatively painless) video card for
 driving as many 1080p monitors as possible? I'm not concerned about 3D
 performance at all... It will be to display terminals/rarely-changing
 web pages only.

 I know Matrox sort of specializes in multi-monitor setups, but I can't
 say I've heard them recommended much.

I'm currently running four big monitors on an ATI Radeon HD, so if you
can fit three of those cards into a box, that 's 12 monitors right off
the bat, and you could probably add some DP splitters to get more.

I've tried a matrox card.  In theory, it can drive up to 12 monitors
with four triple-head-to-go adapters, but it had some driver issues that
kept me from using it (mostly dealing with vlc and youtube) and they
didn't officially (or actually, when I reported bugs) support the
version of Fedora I was running anyway.

But, if they happen to support the version of the kernel you're running,
and you don't need 3D or video, they're a good choice, although multiple
HD cards would probably be cheaper.
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Re: 3840x2160 resolution?

[DJ Delorie]

$ xdpyinfo | grep dimensions
  dimensions:6880x1600 pixels (1818x423 millimeters)

That's four monitors on an ATI Radeon HD 6870 card, with proprietary
drivers.

Note: my solution to the widescreen monitor problem is to rotate them,
making them tallscreen monitors instead.
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Re: 3840x2160 resolution?

[DJ Delorie]

Joe Wulf joe_w...@yahoo.com writes:
 By chance, do you use two of these... side-by-side?

Er, I have four monitors, side-by-side, which combined are that
resolution.  The largest single monitor is 2560x1600.
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Re: Disabling SlowKeys?

[DJ Delorie]

The only solution I've found for this (other than hacking that feature
out of X ;) is to put this in my .xsession:

xkbset sl 1

This doesn't disable slow keys, but sets slow keys at the fastest
possible timeout so that the keyboard acts the same when slowkeys is
enabled.

(xkbset is in xkbset-*.rpm)
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[DJ Delorie]

I've had PS/2 keyboard problems in F17.  Two things to try:

1. Hold down a key and see if it starts auto-repeating.  In my case, the
   first keypress is lost, but auto-repeat keypresses get through.

2. Ctrl-Alt-2 to a text terminal and see if the keyboard works outside
   of X.  In my case, it did.

If your keyboard problems act like mine, you have the same problem, and
it's a bug in the X PS/2 keyboard driver.  Killing X resets it, and a
USB keyboard seems to work fine.
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[DJ Delorie]

You could also try an F16 or F18 Live CD and see if the problem is
F17-specific...
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware - SOLVED!!! (for me at least)

[DJ Delorie]

Paul Johnson pauljoh...@gmail.com writes:
 I am nearly certain this is accidental triggering of SLOW KEYS,

That was EXACTLY it for me.  Hey developers!  hold shift key for 10
seconds is common in many video games (esp Minecraft).  You can't just
change the user's keyboard without warning!

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=816764

BTW xkbset -a worked for me (yum install xkbset) and it's in my
.xsession now.

If I find out which program turned that feature on, I'm taking it out
back and shooting it.

Thanks!
DJ
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Re: No irq handler for vector - dead keyboard

[DJ Delorie]

Heinz Diehl h...@fritha.org writes:
 On 26.08.2012, DJ Delorie wrote: 

 Message from syslogd@envy at Aug 26 05:20:39 ...
  kernel:[647218.583886] do_IRQ: 3.191 No irq handler for vector (irq -1)

 What happens when you boot with pci=nomsi,noaer?

The no irq message goes away, but my keyboard still stops working
after a while.
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Re: No irq handler for vector - dead keyboard

[DJ Delorie]

Hmmm... switching to tty2 == keyboard works normally, switching BACK to
X == keyboard broken again.

So, it's a bug in X's PS2 keyboard driver.  Is there any way to 'reset'
X's driver?

/me goes hunting for a PS2-to-usb adapter... I really would rather use
my Model M than the cheesy USB keyboard.
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No irq handler for vector - dead keyboard

[DJ Delorie]

I've been getting a ton of these.  They seem to persist across kernel
updates ever since I first put F17 on.  Once they start happening,
usually within a few hours of a reboot, they PS2 keyboard stops
working right (first keypress is lost, autorepeat keypresses come
through) although restarting X seems to fix them.

Unplugging the keyboard and plugging it back in does not fix anything.

The errors keep happening even though the keyboard is not plugged in
at all at the moment (USB keyboards work fine)

Motherboard is a GA-X58A-UD3R with an I7 X980, 24 GB of RAM, an SSD
for boot and two 3TB drives for data.  ATI Radeon HD graphics.  A
couple of other pci/pcie cards if it matters.

Any ideas?

Message from syslogd@envy at Aug 26 05:20:39 ...
 kernel:[647218.583886] do_IRQ: 3.191 No irq handler for vector (irq -1)

Message from syslogd@envy at Aug 26 05:23:39 ...
 kernel:[647398.851327] do_IRQ: 3.73 No irq handler for vector (irq -1)

Message from syslogd@envy at Aug 26 06:48:59 ...
 kernel:[652511.853351] do_IRQ: 3.112 No irq handler for vector (irq -1)

Message from syslogd@envy at Aug 26 07:51:49 ...
 kernel:[656276.261452] do_IRQ: 2.133 No irq handler for vector (irq -1)

Message from syslogd@envy at Aug 26 08:58:59 ...
 kernel:[660300.924911] do_IRQ: 2.189 No irq handler for vector (irq -1)

Message from syslogd@envy at Aug 26 09:01:29 ...
 kernel:[660450.583000] do_IRQ: 4.39 No irq handler for vector (irq -1)

Message from syslogd@envy at Aug 26 09:27:29 ...
 kernel:[662008.464041] do_IRQ: 3.176 No irq handler for vector (irq -1)

Message from syslogd@envy at Aug 26 09:53:09 ...
 kernel:[663546.372662] do_IRQ: 5.153 No irq handler for vector (irq -1)

Message from syslogd@envy at Aug 26 10:16:19 ...
 kernel:[664934.485086] do_IRQ: 3.160 No irq handler for vector (irq -1)

Message from syslogd@envy at Aug 26 11:20:19 ...
 kernel:[668769.269528] do_IRQ: 4.127 No irq handler for vector (irq -1)

Linux envy.delorie.com 3.4.4-3.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Jun 26 20:54:56 UTC 2012 
x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-3.4.4-3.fc17.x86_64 
root=UUID=933fd9d9-a7dc-48bc-abae-fe79985817ce ro rd.md=0 rd.lvm=0 rd.dm=0 
SYSFONT=True KEYTABLE=us rd.luks=0 LANG=en_US.UTF-8 quiet


   CPU0   CPU1   CPU2   CPU3   CPU4   CPU5   
CPU6   CPU7   CPU8   CPU9   CPU10  CPU11  
  0:132  0  0  0  0  0  
0  0  0  0  0  0   IO-APIC-edge  
timer
  1:  78727  0  0  0  0  0  
0  0  0  0  0  0   IO-APIC-edge  
i8042
  8:  1  0  0  0  0  0  
0  0  0  0  0  0   IO-APIC-edge  
rtc0
  9:  0  0  0  0  0  0  
0  0  0  0  0  0   IO-APIC-fasteoi   
acpi
 16:  3 83  0 996020  0  0  
0  0  0  0  0  0   IO-APIC-fasteoi   
uhci_hcd:usb3, pata_jmicron, bttv0
 17:  0  0  0  0  0  0  
0  0  0  0  0  0   IO-APIC-fasteoi   
ahci
 18:   6770239487981954852454393 2699494402069  
0  0  0  0  0  0   IO-APIC-fasteoi   
ehci_hcd:usb1, uhci_hcd:usb5, uhci_hcd:usb8, pata_jmicron, firewire_ohci
 19:  0  0  0  0  0  0  
0  0  0  0  0  0   IO-APIC-fasteoi   
ahci, uhci_hcd:usb7
 21:  1  0  0  0309  0  
0  0  0  0  0  0   IO-APIC-fasteoi   
uhci_hcd:usb4
 23:  33011115441923378211591991 3006472306632  
0  0  0  0  0  0   IO-APIC-fasteoi   
ehci_hcd:usb2, uhci_hcd:usb6
 43:  366108598132   37612986   49599749   39789306   54499151  
0  0  0  0  0  0   PCI-MSI-edge  
ahci
 44:   9091  94873 169008 118253  64004 183937  
0  0  0  0  0  0   PCI-MSI-edge  
ahci
 45:  1  0  0  0  0  0  
0  0  0  0  0  0   PCI-MSI-edge  
xhci_hcd
 46:  0  0  0  0  0  0  
0  0  0  0  0  0   PCI-MSI-edge  
xhci_hcd
 47:  0  0  0  0  0  0  
0  0  0  0  0  0   PCI-MSI-edge  
xhci_hcd
 48:  0 

Re: No irq handler for vector - dead keyboard

[DJ Delorie]

Heinz Diehl h...@fritha.org writes:
 What happens when you boot with pci=nomsi,noaer?

I thought I tried that before, but I'll try it again... grub2 seems to
have started ignoring my preferences :-(
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Re: Linux or GNU/Linux

[DJ Delorie]

This is all IMHO...

Linux is the kernel.

GNU is a project to create a Free operating system, which has created
such components as glibc, gcc, emacs, gdb, etc.

GNU/Linux is a combination of the two - any Linux-based operating system
that uses the GNU components.

There are other GNU-based operating systems using other kernels, such as
GNU/Hurd.

Fedora is a Linux-based distro that happens to include the GNU
components but also includes components from many other projects.

Most Linux-based distros (Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, Arch, etc) are
supersets of GNU/Linux - they use the Linux kernel and contain the GNU
project components, but also contain many other (possibly non-Free)
components.  While it's technically true to call such distros
GNU/Linux, such a label ignores a large portion of the origin and
richness of those distros.  It would be like calling the USA the
country that contains Boston.

Also, outside of myself, in my house we call such distros Firefox ;-)

Some operating systems do not use the GNU components yet are still
Linux-based, such as (I think) Android and certain special-purpose
embedded systems.  It is possible, for example, to build Newlib for
Linux, and have a Newlib/Linux system.


So, IMHO, the answer to your question is It depends on what you're
talking about, and why.
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Re: Linux note-taking apps -- what's your favorite

[DJ Delorie]

Call me old-school if you like, but I still use xpostit.  I have a dozen
or so xpost-it's on my desktop at any given time.
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Re: Proposal request for ideas on naming Fedora releases.

[DJ Delorie]

Kevin Fenzi ke...@scrye.com writes:
  You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message
  has been automatically rejected.  If you think that your messages
  are being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at
  advisory-board-ow...@lists.fedoraproject.org.
 
 Please do not give instructions to the general population, that the
 general population cannot follow.  I am thus posting to the users@
 list, where this original request was sent.

 You must first subscribe to the indicated list before you can post to
 it. This is how most lists work these days (pesky spammers). 

*My* mailing lists *tell* you that you have to subscribe to post.  This
is how most lists work these days.  The message I actually got did not
say please subscribe to post it said you are not allowed to post.
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Re: Proposal request for ideas on naming Fedora releases.

[DJ Delorie]

 You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message
 has been automatically rejected.  If you think that your messages
 are being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at
 advisory-board-ow...@lists.fedoraproject.org.

Please do not give instructions to the general population, that the
general population cannot follow.  I am thus posting to the users@
list, where this original request was sent.


My only request is to avoid names that sound like themes from other
distros.  Any scheme we choose needs to be different enough to stand
on its own.

For example, any $adjective $noun name is going to make people think
of Ubuntu, and any $distro $name is going to sound like Debian.  The
previous Fedora $release $is-a-noun scheme was our way and IMHO we
should return to that.

Removing the code name completely seems to me like a step in the
suit-and-tie direction and I would hate to see our project go that
path.

DJ Delorie
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Re: AMD/Ati catalyst drivers for Fedora 17

[DJ Delorie]

Rudolf Kastl che...@gmail.com writes:
 the 12.6 beta drivers work just fine.

+1.  I'm running 12.6 with an HD 6870 and four monitors, works fine
(except for the known youtube-fullscreen-hang bug, and XVideo cropping)
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Re: Fedora 18 release name

[DJ Delorie]

   Spherical Cow

Can we add a rule for F19 that the name shall not be an adjective-noun
form?  Those sound too much like Ubuntu's naming scheme.
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Re: Fedora 18 release name

[DJ Delorie]

 Spherical Cow is really an idiom, and arguably not a normal adjective-noun
 pair.

Justify it all you want, it still sounds like Copying Ubuntu to me.
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Re: Anyone got three monitors working?

[DJ Delorie]

Thomas Cameron thomas.came...@camerontech.com writes:
 http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_quadro_nvs_450_us.html

 Support for 4 monitors from one card. Pricey, though.  :-(

Note: this card has two GPUs.  This probably means two X drivers, which
means Xinerama.
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Re: Anyone got three monitors working?

[DJ Delorie]

Pete Travis li...@petetravis.com writes:
 I have three or four displays attached to two different nvidia GPUs.
 I have noticed that a nouveau driven setup handles window management
 much more sanely, and provides adequate 3D support for my purposes.

Three displays is easy.  One desktop on three displays is harder.  Do
you have one desktop?  Can you open a window and make it as big as all
three montors, as if they were one monitor?
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Re: Anyone got three monitors working?

[DJ Delorie]

Thomas Cameron thomas.came...@camerontech.com writes:
 I'd *really* love to do triple head - the monitor in front of me for my
 main work, and the two side screens for supporting stuff.

I have four monitors with Fedora.  There are two options...

1. Use 2 or more standard nvidia cards (or any card, really) and use
   Xinerama to combine them into a single screen.  This slows down
   some applications (most are OK) but the result just works, despite
   years-old claims that Xinerama is deprecated.  I'm using two 9800GT
   cards, for example.

2. Buy a card that supports more than two monitors.  Matrox makes a
   range of these, but beware - they have their own drivers and they're
   not as responsive as, say, nvidia.  I'm still trying to get the
   latest one working sufficently.  When I used the M9148 card with F12,
   it was *wonderful*.
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Re: Fedora 15 is a lot like Windows OS's.. irritating, offensive, difficult to use with ease, nauseating to try...

[DJ Delorie]

Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk writes:
 The great thing about Fedora is it supports and packages many
 desktops.

Does it support Gnome 2 ?  That seems to be what everyone who complains
about Gnome 3 actually wants...
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spaceballs...

[DJ Delorie]

Is there a standard for how multi-axis trackballs (spaceballs)
interact with X?  Are they common enough to just work now or is it
the usual proprietary-hardware-nightmare still?

The common trackball seems to have the ball, some scrollwheel
replacement and a bunch of buttons.  It would be nice to be able to
*rotate* the ball, or push it in various directions, etc.  But only if
there's a sane mapping to X events.
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Re: spaceballs...

[DJ Delorie]

Rick Stevens ri...@nerd.com writes:
 I'd bring up xevent or whatever and push/pull/poke/twist, take note of
 what events it generates and do your own thing.

At this point, I'm still wondering if ANYTHING would show up in xevent
:-)

I know XInput can handle a larger numbers of buttons.  Can it handle
more than two motion channels?  I know they won't map to the X cursor's
X,Y location, but still, if that's what the spaceball is producing...
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Re: spaceballs...

[DJ Delorie]

Rick Stevens ri...@nerd.com writes:
 As I said, try it and see.

They're too expensive to just try it, hence wanting to see if someone
else has already tried it and had some info on how well X interacted
with the hardware, and if there was a standard way to talk to it from
software.

 You might want to try xev.

I know about xev, thanks.

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Re: spaceballs...

[DJ Delorie]

g gel...@bellsouth.net writes:

 It would be nice to be able to *rotate* the ball, or push it in
 various directions, etc.  But only if there's a sane mapping to X
 events.

 *roll* would be a better description than 'rotate'.

Not at all, since I'm talking about spaceballs, not trackballs.

A spaceball can sense not only the usual X/Y rolling motion that a
trackball supports, but it can also sense rotation (CW/CCW) and pressure
(think clicking the ball itself, in various directions (X/Y/Z)).
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Re: Analog video capture

[DJ Delorie]

JD jd1...@gmail.com writes:
 What do you think of this hauppague gizmo?

 http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4146200

I have the HD-PVR and use it on Fedora 14 with VLC (high-def TV in a
window!  Watching AMCHD at the moment :).  Capturing streaming video to
disk is as simple as this:

$ cat /dev/video0  ~/Video/capture.m4ts

(then you hit play on the vcr, wait, hit Ctrl-C on the above :)

The only catch is it doesn't seem to like working with 5.1 sound (VLC,
not the HDPVR).  Mine is hooked up to stereo inputs instead.
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Re: Triple head?

[DJ Delorie]

I have a quad-monitor setup.  I originally had two nVidia 9800GT cards
(dual DVI each) but in order to get more than one GPU to act like one
desktop, you had to use Xinerama, which slowed down Cairo a *lot*
(although 3D was still pretty fast).  I ended up replacing those two
cards with one Matrox M9148 (quad displayport) card.  It works, but you
need a proprietary driver, and the most recent version of Fedora they've
tested it with is Fedora *11*.  It does not compile with Fedora 14.
Also, it hangs fairly regularly (F12/F13) when watching V4L (like
tvtime).  2D (cairo) is very fast over all four monitors, and 3D is not
too shabby either (30-60 FPS in quake3).  The RandR settings in my setup
are off by a pixel, but I have three different monitor configurations
(one bigger than the others, and two of those others rotated - the
rotated ones are the ones that are off).
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too-persistent dmraid metadata

[DJ Delorie]

Anyone else have raid metadata that dmraid -rE can't keep away?  I
can remove the metadata, it's gone from the drive, but after the next
reboot it's back.  This is a drive on a highpoint RocketRaid 1820a
card, although I only use it in JBOD mode.  This is happening on one
of seven otherwise identical drives (four of which have been in use
with Fedora 10 for years) so I don't suspect Fedora is doing it.
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F14 + two cards + nouveau = fail?

[DJ Delorie]

I have a setup with two GeForce 9800 GT cards, each with two monitors.
I've tried F13, F14alpha, and now F14beta and I've never gotten my
four-monitor setup to work right.

I want all four monitors in a cluster as a single desktop.

I currently use F12 with the nvidia driver and Xinerama, but rendering
performance is very slow sometimes.

With F14 the best I can do is EITHER xrandr the two monitors on the
first card and SEPARATELY xrandr the two on the second card, OR
xinerama the first monitor on each card (the second monitors clone the
first).

Has ANYONE gotten nouveau working nicely with 1 cards and 2 monitors?
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nouveau with two GPUs... anyone?

[DJ Delorie]

I tried F14 alpha today, yum updated it, wanted to get all four
monitors on two Nvidia GeForce 9800 cards working as a single desktop.

Had partial success.

The default no-conf setup activated the first two monitors (first card
only), put them next to each other.

With many hours of fiddling, I got a xorg.conf that activated all four
monitors, but cloned 0 onto 1 and 2 onto 3, and put the 0/1 clone next
to the 2/3 clone.  I couldn't move anything to the right virtual
locations.

All I want is a desktop with all four monitors arranged my way, I
don't need the XRandR extensions (although that would be nice to
silence all those warnings about it missing), I don't need to ever
move, resize, or enable/disable the monitors - they're fixed.


Is there *some* way to tell nouveau to use two GPU cards, without also
having to manually fiddle with every other configuration option there
is?

And *no* I don't want to use the nvidia driver - I have that now, that
requires Xinerama, which kills performance for the apps I use most.

My current layout:

Card2/Monitor1  C1/M1   C2/M2  C1/M2
Rotated CW  normalCW   normal

(although I'd rather have C1/M2 *above* C1/M1)
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Re: Fedora Notifications System.

[DJ Delorie]

On 08/23/2010 02:37 PM, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad wrote:
 before two weeks, a discussion started in ambassadors mailing-list about
 a work around to deliver the important notifications to the fedora
 desktop (whatever the desktop is).

What a horrible idea.  Please PLEASE don't make it the default, and 
certainly make sure I can yum remove it (because I *will* remove it).

I get enough spam already, I don't need yet another well-known way
for spammers to hack into my system and put ads in front of my face.
I also don't need yet another Surprise! distraction popping up on my 
desktop.

Besides, we already have a way to do this - it's called e-mail.
Or twitter.  Or usenet.  Or facebook.  Or the web.  Or IRC.  Let people 
choose whether to get notices or not, and how, don't force it down their 
throats the way some big companies do.
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overriding USB vendor/product map

[DJ Delorie]

Is it possible to force the kernel to assign a USB driver to a given
vendor/product, if it has a custom product?  In my case, I have a
board with a CP2102 usb chip on it, which linux supports, but the
CP2102 has a custom iProduct number so the driver just ignores it.
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Re: Bug in mailing lists; unfriendly to non-subscribers

[DJ Delorie]

On 07/05/2010 01:13 PM, Felipe Contreras wrote:
 Fact: the most difficult a process is to follow, the less people would follow 
 it

Fact: if it were too easy, spam would overwhelm everything else, and the 
list would be useless.

 Fact: a community benefits from all kinds of contribution, even from
 one-post people

Fact: a community benefits more from people who care about 
communicating, not just dumping a problem in someone else's lap.

 Fact: the current system doesn't welcome one-time posts

Fact: it does, if you subscribe.

 Fact: the current system doesn't allow cross-posting

Fact: This is a good thing.  Focus, people!  Focus!

 Fact: the current system doesn't specify when the reply was meant for
 the receiver

Fact: this is a problem with your mailer, not our list.

 Fact: the current system doesn't allow to properly Cc people
 (non-subscribers) to a thread

Fact: this is your *opinion* since you used the word properly

 I wan't aware there's a religious war about this, I just thought that
 whomever made the decision, didn't really had all the facts.

Yet you chose facts which backed your opinion, and left out facts
which worked against you.  *That* makes your post religious.
This isn't the kind of problem that gets solved with facts and 
insults.  This kind of problem only gets solved by people understanding 
how it got the way it did, and carefully considering the ramifications 
of any change (however minor), and being empowered to make those 
changes.  None of us are doing any of those, including you.
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Re: Xorg 1.7.5, Xinerama, and LeftOf screens

[DJ Delorie]

On 03/01/2010 02:08 AM, Dan Irwin wrote:
 I'm not sure what setup you have, but I can use tools inside gnome to

Four monitors on two nvidia GPUs set up as a single desktop running 
fvwm2.  Like I said, I can't use Xrandr.
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Re: Xorg 1.7.5, Xinerama, and LeftOf screens

[DJ Delorie]

 Out of curiosity, why exactly you can't use xrandr? What does it say
 when you run it?

It doesn't work with two video cards.  According to the web, I need
Xrandr 1.3, but only 1.2 is available to me.

OTOH I'd really like to be proven wrong about this :-)
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Xorg 1.7.5, Xinerama, and LeftOf screens

[DJ Delorie]

In case anyone else can benefit from this... I just spent 2-3 days
hacking on the X server to get a screen to the left of the main screen
working with Xinerama (no, I can't use Xrandr).  Here's the patch
(yes, I'll mail it to xorg too).

--- xorg-server-1.7.5/dix/events.c  2010-02-28 20:41:58.0 -0500
+++ xorg-server-1.7.5.dj/dix/events.c   2010-02-28 20:56:52.0 -0500
@@ -765,5 +765,5 @@
 if (pSprite-hotShape)
ConfineToShape(pDev, pSprite-hotShape, new.x, new.y);
-if ((pScreen != pSprite-hotPhys.pScreen) ||
+if ((noPanoramiXExtension  (pScreen != pSprite-hotPhys.pScreen)) ||
(new.x != pSprite-hotPhys.x) || (new.y != pSprite-hotPhys.y))
 {
@@ -1164,6 +1164,6 @@
}
 #endif
-   pSprite-hotPhys.x = event-root_x;
-   pSprite-hotPhys.y = event-root_y;
+   pSprite-hotPhys.x = (signed short)event-root_x;
+   pSprite-hotPhys.y = (signed short)event-root_y;
/* do motion compression, but not if from different devices */
if (tail 
@@ -1314,5 +1314,5 @@
syncEvents.replayDev = (DeviceIntPtr)NULL;
 
-w = XYToWindow(replayDev, event-root_x, event-root_y);
+w = XYToWindow(replayDev, (signed short)event-root_x, (signed 
short)event-root_y);
for (i = 0; i  replayDev-spriteInfo-sprite-spriteTraceGood; i++)
{
@@ -2821,6 +2821,6 @@
 }
 
-pSprite-hot.x = ev-root_x;
-pSprite-hot.y = ev-root_y;
+pSprite-hot.x = (signed short)ev-root_x;
+pSprite-hot.y = (signed short)ev-root_y;
 if (pSprite-hot.x  pSprite-physLimits.x1)
 pSprite-hot.x = pSprite-physLimits.x1;
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