[ovirt-users] Re: what happens to vms when a host shutdowns?

2022-11-15 Thread Laurent Duparchy 

Hi,

Just tested it (run /shutdown now /from the host command prompt)  and the VM 
reports a previous crash not a graceful shutdown.

We're on the Oracle flavor of oVirt. (4.3)

The VM is a Windows 2022 VM w/ latest agent (from 
https://fedorapeople.org/groups/virt/virtio-win/direct-downloads/archive-qemu-ga/
 )




--
*Laurent Duparchy
ESRF - The European Synchrotron
MIS Unit
04 76 88 22 56*___
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[ovirt-users] Re: what happens to vms when a host shutdowns?

2021-07-06 Thread Arik Hadas 
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 7:02 PM Sandro Bonazzola  wrote:

>
>
> Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 17:33 Nir Soffer 
> ha scritto:
>
>> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 5:58 PM Scott Worthington
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 8:13 AM Nir Soffer  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 2:29 PM Sandro Bonazzola 
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:03 Nir Soffer <
>> nsof...@redhat.com> ha scritto:
>> 
>>  On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet 
>> wrote:
>>  > We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors.
>>  >
>>  > What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an
>> hypervisor is
>>  > ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown
>>  > properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?
>> 
>>  In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but
>> HA VMs
>>  are restarted after failures.
>> 
>>  If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host
>> regardless of
>>  the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the
>> system must
>>  wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still
>>  running on this
>>  host.
>> 
>>  Arik can add more details on this.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I think the question is not related to what happens after the host is
>> back.
>> >>> I think the question is what happens when the host goes down.
>> >>> To me, the right way to shutdown a host is putting it first to
>> maintenance (VM evacuate to other hosts) and then shutdown.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Right, but the we don't have integration with the UPS, so engine
>> cannot put the host
>> >> to maintenance when the host lose power and the UPS will shut it down
>> after
>> >> few minutes.
>> >
>> >
>> > This is outside of the scope of oVirt team:
>> >
>> > Perhaps one could combine multiple applications ( NUT + Ansible +
>> Nagios/Zabbix ) to notify the oVirt engine to switch a host to maintenance?
>> >
>> > NUT[0] could be configured to alert a monitoring system ( like Nagios
>> or Zabbix) to trigger an Ansible playbook [1][2] to put the host in
>> maintenance mode, and the trigger should happen before the UPS battery is
>> depleted (you'll have to account for the time it takes to live migrate VMs).
>>
>> I would trigger this once power is lost. You never know how much time
>> migration will take, so best migrate all vms immediately.
>>
>> It would be nice to integrate this with engine, but we can start by
>> something
>> like you describe, that will use engine API/SDK to prepare the hosts for
>> graceful shutdown.
>>
>
There are pros and cons to this approach.
If the workloads manage to get evacuated quickly, before libvirt-guests
starts shutting them down, that's great.
But what happens if the VMs are still migrated after libvirt-guests
initiated shutdowns?
Think about the following case:
1. A highly available VM starts migrating
2. libvirt-guests tries to shut down the guest
3. The migration completed
4. The guest shuts down while it runs on the destination host
I'm not sure that we'll treat that case as a non-intentional shutdown since
we may lose the context of the shutdown while the VM runs to the
destination host and therefore won't try to restart the VM automatically.


>
> we already have a role for immediate shutdown of the whole datacenter:
> https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-ansible-shutdown-env
> now integrated in ansible collection
> https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-ansible-collection/tree/master/roles/shutdown_env
>
>
>
>>
>> > [0] Network UPS Tools
>> https://networkupstools.org/docs/user-manual.chunked/index.html
>> > [1]
>> https://www.ovirt.org/develop/release-management/features/infra/ansible_modules.html
>> > [2]
>> https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/collections/ovirt/ovirt/ovirt_host_module.html
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> Sandro Bonazzola
>
> MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV
>
> Red Hat EMEA 
>
> sbona...@redhat.com
> 
>
> *Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to
> answer this email out of your office hours.
> *
>
>
> ___
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[ovirt-users] Re: what happens to vms when a host shutdowns?

2021-07-06 Thread Sandro Bonazzola 
Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 17:33 Nir Soffer  ha
scritto:

> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 5:58 PM Scott Worthington
>  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 8:13 AM Nir Soffer  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 2:29 PM Sandro Bonazzola 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:03 Nir Soffer 
> ha scritto:
> 
>  On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet 
> wrote:
>  > We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors.
>  >
>  > What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an hypervisor
> is
>  > ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown
>  > properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?
> 
>  In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but HA
> VMs
>  are restarted after failures.
> 
>  If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host
> regardless of
>  the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the
> system must
>  wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still
>  running on this
>  host.
> 
>  Arik can add more details on this.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I think the question is not related to what happens after the host is
> back.
> >>> I think the question is what happens when the host goes down.
> >>> To me, the right way to shutdown a host is putting it first to
> maintenance (VM evacuate to other hosts) and then shutdown.
> >>
> >>
> >> Right, but the we don't have integration with the UPS, so engine cannot
> put the host
> >> to maintenance when the host lose power and the UPS will shut it down
> after
> >> few minutes.
> >
> >
> > This is outside of the scope of oVirt team:
> >
> > Perhaps one could combine multiple applications ( NUT + Ansible +
> Nagios/Zabbix ) to notify the oVirt engine to switch a host to maintenance?
> >
> > NUT[0] could be configured to alert a monitoring system ( like Nagios or
> Zabbix) to trigger an Ansible playbook [1][2] to put the host in
> maintenance mode, and the trigger should happen before the UPS battery is
> depleted (you'll have to account for the time it takes to live migrate VMs).
>
> I would trigger this once power is lost. You never know how much time
> migration will take, so best migrate all vms immediately.
>
> It would be nice to integrate this with engine, but we can start by
> something
> like you describe, that will use engine API/SDK to prepare the hosts for
> graceful shutdown.
>

we already have a role for immediate shutdown of the whole datacenter:
https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-ansible-shutdown-env
now integrated in ansible collection
https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-ansible-collection/tree/master/roles/shutdown_env



>
> > [0] Network UPS Tools
> https://networkupstools.org/docs/user-manual.chunked/index.html
> > [1]
> https://www.ovirt.org/develop/release-management/features/infra/ansible_modules.html
> > [2]
> https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/collections/ovirt/ovirt/ovirt_host_module.html
>
>

-- 

Sandro Bonazzola

MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV

Red Hat EMEA 

sbona...@redhat.com


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[ovirt-users] Re: what happens to vms when a host shutdowns?

2021-07-06 Thread Nir Soffer 
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 5:58 PM Scott Worthington
 wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 8:13 AM Nir Soffer  wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 2:29 PM Sandro Bonazzola  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:03 Nir Soffer  ha 
>>> scritto:

 On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet  wrote:
 > We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors.
 >
 > What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an hypervisor is
 > ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown
 > properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?

 In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but HA VMs
 are restarted after failures.

 If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host regardless 
 of
 the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the system 
 must
 wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still
 running on this
 host.

 Arik can add more details on this.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think the question is not related to what happens after the host is back.
>>> I think the question is what happens when the host goes down.
>>> To me, the right way to shutdown a host is putting it first to maintenance 
>>> (VM evacuate to other hosts) and then shutdown.
>>
>>
>> Right, but the we don't have integration with the UPS, so engine cannot put 
>> the host
>> to maintenance when the host lose power and the UPS will shut it down after
>> few minutes.
>
>
> This is outside of the scope of oVirt team:
>
> Perhaps one could combine multiple applications ( NUT + Ansible + 
> Nagios/Zabbix ) to notify the oVirt engine to switch a host to maintenance?
>
> NUT[0] could be configured to alert a monitoring system ( like Nagios or 
> Zabbix) to trigger an Ansible playbook [1][2] to put the host in maintenance 
> mode, and the trigger should happen before the UPS battery is depleted 
> (you'll have to account for the time it takes to live migrate VMs).

I would trigger this once power is lost. You never know how much time
migration will take, so best migrate all vms immediately.

It would be nice to integrate this with engine, but we can start by something
like you describe, that will use engine API/SDK to prepare the hosts for
graceful shutdown.

> [0] Network UPS Tools 
> https://networkupstools.org/docs/user-manual.chunked/index.html
> [1] 
> https://www.ovirt.org/develop/release-management/features/infra/ansible_modules.html
> [2] 
> https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/collections/ovirt/ovirt/ovirt_host_module.html
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[ovirt-users] Re: what happens to vms when a host shutdowns?

2021-07-06 Thread Arik Hadas 
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 3:13 PM Nir Soffer  wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 2:29 PM Sandro Bonazzola 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:03 Nir Soffer 
>> ha scritto:
>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet 
>>> wrote:
>>> > We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors.
>>> >
>>> > What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an hypervisor is
>>> > ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown
>>> > properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?
>>>
>>> In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but HA VMs
>>> are restarted after failures.
>>>
>>> If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host
>>> regardless of
>>> the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the system
>>> must
>>> wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still
>>> running on this
>>> host.
>>>
>>> Arik can add more details on this.
>>>
>>
>> I think the question is not related to what happens after the host is
>> back.
>> I think the question is what happens when the host goes down.
>> To me, the right way to shutdown a host is putting it first to
>> maintenance (VM evacuate to other hosts) and then shutdown.
>>
>
> Right, but the we don't have integration with the UPS, so engine cannot
> put the host
> to maintenance when the host lose power and the UPS will shut it down after
> few minutes.
>
>
>> On emergency shutdown without moving the host to maintenance first I
>> think libvirt is communicating the host is going down to the guests and
>> tries to cleanly shutdown vms while the host is going down.
>> Arik please confirm :-)
>>
>
Yes, that is correct.
If the host shuts down, libvirt-guests attempt to shut down the guests
gracefully.


>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Nir
>>> ___
>>> Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org
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>>> Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Sandro Bonazzola
>>
>> MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV
>>
>> Red Hat EMEA 
>>
>> sbona...@redhat.com
>> 
>>
>> *Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to
>> answer this email out of your office hours.
>> *
>>
>>
>> ___
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[ovirt-users] Re: what happens to vms when a host shutdowns?

2021-07-06 Thread Scott Worthington 
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 8:13 AM Nir Soffer  wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 2:29 PM Sandro Bonazzola 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:03 Nir Soffer 
>> ha scritto:
>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet 
>>> wrote:
>>> > We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors.
>>> >
>>> > What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an hypervisor is
>>> > ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown
>>> > properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?
>>>
>>> In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but HA VMs
>>> are restarted after failures.
>>>
>>> If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host
>>> regardless of
>>> the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the system
>>> must
>>> wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still
>>> running on this
>>> host.
>>>
>>> Arik can add more details on this.
>>>
>>
>> I think the question is not related to what happens after the host is
>> back.
>> I think the question is what happens when the host goes down.
>> To me, the right way to shutdown a host is putting it first to
>> maintenance (VM evacuate to other hosts) and then shutdown.
>>
>
> Right, but the we don't have integration with the UPS, so engine cannot
> put the host
> to maintenance when the host lose power and the UPS will shut it down after
> few minutes.
>

This is outside of the scope of oVirt team:

Perhaps one could combine multiple applications ( NUT + Ansible +
Nagios/Zabbix ) to notify the oVirt engine to switch a host to maintenance?

NUT[0] could be configured to alert a monitoring system ( like Nagios or
Zabbix) to trigger an Ansible playbook [1][2] to put the host in
maintenance mode, and the trigger should happen before the UPS battery is
depleted (you'll have to account for the time it takes to live migrate VMs).

[0] Network UPS Tools
https://networkupstools.org/docs/user-manual.chunked/index.html
[1]
https://www.ovirt.org/develop/release-management/features/infra/ansible_modules.html
[2]
https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/collections/ovirt/ovirt/ovirt_host_module.html
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[ovirt-users] Re: what happens to vms when a host shutdowns?

2021-07-06 Thread Nir Soffer 
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 2:29 PM Sandro Bonazzola  wrote:

>
>
> Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:03 Nir Soffer 
> ha scritto:
>
>> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet 
>> wrote:
>> > We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors.
>> >
>> > What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an hypervisor is
>> > ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown
>> > properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?
>>
>> In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but HA VMs
>> are restarted after failures.
>>
>> If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host
>> regardless of
>> the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the system
>> must
>> wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still
>> running on this
>> host.
>>
>> Arik can add more details on this.
>>
>
> I think the question is not related to what happens after the host is back.
> I think the question is what happens when the host goes down.
> To me, the right way to shutdown a host is putting it first to maintenance
> (VM evacuate to other hosts) and then shutdown.
>

Right, but the we don't have integration with the UPS, so engine cannot put
the host
to maintenance when the host lose power and the UPS will shut it down after
few minutes.


> On emergency shutdown without moving the host to maintenance first I think
> libvirt is communicating the host is going down to the guests and tries to
> cleanly shutdown vms while the host is going down.
> Arik please confirm :-)
>
>
>
>>
>> Nir
>> ___
>> Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@ovirt.org
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>>
>
>
> --
>
> Sandro Bonazzola
>
> MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV
>
> Red Hat EMEA 
>
> sbona...@redhat.com
> 
>
> *Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to
> answer this email out of your office hours.
> *
>
>
>
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[ovirt-users] Re: what happens to vms when a host shutdowns?

2021-07-06 Thread Sandro Bonazzola 
Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:45 Klaas Demter 
ha scritto:

> This should be implemented in 4.2.3 and newer. There are more details in
> the RFE bugzilla:
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1334982
>
> I have never tested it :)
>

Corresponding libvirt bug:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1401054



>
>
>
> On 7/6/21 1:29 PM, Sandro Bonazzola wrote:
>
>
>
> Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:03 Nir Soffer 
> ha scritto:
>
>> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet 
>> wrote:
>> > We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors.
>> >
>> > What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an hypervisor is
>> > ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown
>> > properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?
>>
>> In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but HA VMs
>> are restarted after failures.
>>
>> If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host
>> regardless of
>> the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the system
>> must
>> wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still
>> running on this
>> host.
>>
>> Arik can add more details on this.
>>
>
> I think the question is not related to what happens after the host is back.
> I think the question is what happens when the host goes down.
> To me, the right way to shutdown a host is putting it first to maintenance
> (VM evacuate to other hosts) and then shutdown.
> On emergency shutdown without moving the host to maintenance first I think
> libvirt is communicating the host is going down to the guests and tries to
> cleanly shutdown vms while the host is going down.
> Arik please confirm :-)
>
>
>
>>
>> Nir
>> ___
>> Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@ovirt.org
>> Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html
>> oVirt Code of Conduct:
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>> https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/HXVXSLXQYZX6CQPJNXKWLOMY3LQU7XJ5/
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Sandro Bonazzola
>
> MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV
>
> Red Hat EMEA 
>
> sbona...@redhat.com
> 
>
> *Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to
> answer this email out of your office hours.
> *
>
>
>
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[ovirt-users] Re: what happens to vms when a host shutdowns?

2021-07-06 Thread Klaas Demter 
This should be implemented in 4.2.3 and newer. There are more details in 
the RFE bugzilla:


https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1334982

I have never tested it :)




On 7/6/21 1:29 PM, Sandro Bonazzola wrote:



Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:03 Nir Soffer > ha scritto:


On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet
mailto:blanc...@abes.fr>> wrote:
> We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors.
>
> What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an
hypervisor is
> ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown
> properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?

In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but
HA VMs
are restarted after failures.

If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host
regardless of
the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the
system must
wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still
running on this
host.

Arik can add more details on this.


I think the question is not related to what happens after the host is 
back.

I think the question is what happens when the host goes down.
To me, the right way to shutdown a host is putting it first to 
maintenance (VM evacuate to other hosts) and then shutdown.
On emergency shutdown without moving the host to maintenance first I 
think libvirt is communicating the host is going down to the guests 
and tries to cleanly shutdown vms while the host is going down.

Arik please confirm :-)


Nir
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[ovirt-users] Re: what happens to vms when a host shutdowns?

2021-07-06 Thread Sandro Bonazzola 
Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:03 Nir Soffer  ha
scritto:

> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet 
> wrote:
> > We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors.
> >
> > What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an hypervisor is
> > ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown
> > properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?
>
> In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but HA VMs
> are restarted after failures.
>
> If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host regardless
> of
> the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the system
> must
> wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still
> running on this
> host.
>
> Arik can add more details on this.
>

I think the question is not related to what happens after the host is back.
I think the question is what happens when the host goes down.
To me, the right way to shutdown a host is putting it first to maintenance
(VM evacuate to other hosts) and then shutdown.
On emergency shutdown without moving the host to maintenance first I think
libvirt is communicating the host is going down to the guests and tries to
cleanly shutdown vms while the host is going down.
Arik please confirm :-)



>
> Nir
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MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV

Red Hat EMEA 

sbona...@redhat.com


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[ovirt-users] Re: what happens to vms when a host shutdowns?

2021-07-06 Thread Nir Soffer 
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet  wrote:
> We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors.
>
> What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an hypervisor is
> ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown
> properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?

In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but HA VMs
are restarted after failures.

If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host regardless of
the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the system must
wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still
running on this
host.

Arik can add more details on this.

Nir
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