Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
2013-12-11 16:58 keltezéssel, Ludovic Marcotte írta: On 2013-12-11 10:51 AM, Ludovic Hutin wrote: Any good news for this feature ? Basically, folders synchronization works as well as events/tasks/contacts and mails. One can also send mails, rename/delete/create folders. We're currently pimping the code so it's releasable. It will be released with the new SOGo release or with a separated package? This is our most coveted package - I think... -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
On 2014-01-10 7:00 AM, Szládovics Péter wrote: It will be released with the new SOGo release or with a separated package? I'm not sure I fully understand your question but it'll be part of the next major version of SOGo but it'll be bundled as a separate RPM/deb. Thanks, -- Ludovic Marcotte lmarco...@inverse.ca :: +1.514.755.3630 :: http://inverse.ca Inverse inc. :: Leaders behind SOGo (http://sogo.nu) and PacketFence (http://packetfence.org) -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
2014-01-10 13:30 keltezéssel, Ludovic Marcotte írta: On 2014-01-10 7:00 AM, Szládovics Péter wrote: It will be released with the new SOGo release or with a separated package? I'm not sure I fully understand your question but it'll be part of the next major version of SOGo but it'll be bundled as a separate RPM/deb. Thanks your answer! I meant separated release period/time. When will be the next major release about? Q1 maybe, or later? -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
On 14-01-10 8:05 AM, Szládovics Péter wrote: 2014-01-10 13:30 keltezéssel, Ludovic Marcotte írta: On 2014-01-10 7:00 AM, Szládovics Péter wrote: It will be released with the new SOGo release or with a separated package? I'm not sure I fully understand your question but it'll be part of the next major version of SOGo but it'll be bundled as a separate RPM/deb. Thanks your answer! I meant separated release period/time. When will be the next major release about? Q1 maybe, or later? Friday -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
Hello, Any good news for this feature ? Ludovic. Le 26/11/2013 14:38, Ludovic Marcotte a écrit : On 2013-11-26 8:15 AM, Márcio Merlone wrote: Any update on this? Can't wait for that. :) The work is ongoing. We expect an initial working version by the end of this week or the next one. Thanks, -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
On 2013-12-11 10:51 AM, Ludovic Hutin wrote: Any good news for this feature ? Basically, folders synchronization works as well as events/tasks/contacts and mails. One can also send mails, rename/delete/create folders. We're currently pimping the code so it's releasable. Ludovic -- Ludovic Marcotte lmarco...@inverse.ca :: +1.514.755.3630 :: http://inverse.ca Inverse inc. :: Leaders behind SOGo (http://sogo.nu) and PacketFence (http://packetfence.org) -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
Hi, Any update on this? Can't wait for that. :) Regards. Em 18-09-2013 18:22, Ludovic Marcotte escreveu: Hello, We've been pretty silent when it came to Active Sync support in SOGo for multiple reasons. First of all, there are licensing implications with Microsoft Active Sync. Moreover, there's a plethora of Active Sync implementations out there. We also wanted to see how vendors would adopt CalDAV/CardDAV, how down the drain Funambol would go and the market's impact of the new Windows/Blackberry phones. After digesting all the above for a few weeks, we came to the conclusion we should most likely add Active Sync support to SOGo. Over the past few days, I've been (and still are) in contact with an IP Licensing person at Microsoft. We had interesting discussions which led us to believe we could: 1. create an Active Sync bundle in SOGo for synchronization 2. license it under a free but non-GPL (BSD, for example) 3. distribute it for free We can't use the GPL because of patents restrictions. Z-Push/OPush/Synchotron are all using patented technologies without a license and Microsoft currently does not license to GPL implementations - so using these is not an option. Since the addition of Active Sync support in SOGo would be a server-side implementation, there would be a per-mailbox fee to use it. That fee, would have to be paid to Microsoft directly. On our end, everything would be free of use. Evidently, if we start working on Active Sync support in SOGo, we'll definitively drop Funambol support - which is probably even more exciting then adding Active Sync support. Thanks! -- Ludovic Marcotte lmarco...@inverse.ca :: +1.514.755.3630 ::http://inverse.ca Inverse inc. :: Leaders behind SOGo (http://sogo.nu) and PacketFence (http://packetfence.org) -- *Marcio Merlone* TI - Administrador de redes *A1 Engenharia - Unidade Corporativa* Fone: +55 41 3616-3797 Cel:+55 41 9689-0036 http://www.a1.ind.br/ http://www.a1.ind.br -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
On 2013-11-26 8:15 AM, Márcio Merlone wrote: Any update on this? Can't wait for that. :) The work is ongoing. We expect an initial working version by the end of this week or the next one. Thanks, -- Ludovic Marcotte lmarco...@inverse.ca :: +1.514.755.3630 :: http://inverse.ca Inverse inc. :: Leaders behind SOGo (http://sogo.nu) and PacketFence (http://packetfence.org) -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
Il 18/09/2013 23:22, Ludovic Marcotte ha scritto: Hello, We've been pretty silent when it came to Active Sync support in SOGo for multiple reasons. First of all, there are licensing implications with Microsoft Active Sync. Moreover, there's a plethora of Active Sync implementations out there. We also wanted to see how vendors would adopt CalDAV/CardDAV, how down the drain Funambol would go and the market's impact of the new Windows/Blackberry phones. IMHO with CalDAV/CardDAV and Active Sync support, Funambol no longer makes sense to exist. Already today with only CalDAV and CardDAV Funambol is useful only for (old) Blackberry device, which, however, are always less. On my SOGo server (with some thousands of users) we have disabled the support for Funambol some months ago. After digesting all the above for a few weeks, we came to the conclusion we should most likely add Active Sync support to SOGo. Great news! Thanks -- Alessio Cecchi is: @ ILS - http://www.linux.it/~alessice/ on LinkedIn - http://www.linkedin.com/in/alessice Assistenza Sistemi GNU/Linux - http://www.cecchi.biz/ @ PLUG - ex-Presidente, adesso senatore a vita, http://www.prato.linux.it -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
At Fri, 20 Sep 2013 00:12:05 +0200, Rémi Letot wrote: Jeroen Dekkers jer...@dekkers.ch writes: but I think we can't just disregard all microsoft patents on the basis that software patents aren't valid in Europe. Of course not, but software patents and patents on protocols or interfaces are completely out of scope in Europe (despite the EPO granting them). I can't see what in the active sync protocol could be considered patentable in Europe, there is no interraction with «the forces of nature» that I'm aware of. The forces of nature definition was an amendment that was proposed for the rejected software patent directive, as far as I know that definition isn't in use anywhere. But I agree that the activesync patents are likely to be invalidated on the basis that they are on software as such, but imho you still need to consider that they might not. Microsoft could still try to defend it's patents in court, which would be a definitive blow to any European small business, but I really don't think they would risk confirmation of the invalidity of their patents for any small business scale operation. As a small business you will probably get away with it, but there is still a risk and I just wanted to point that out so everybody can make an informed decision whether to take that risk. The good thing is that court cases in Europe are a lot cheaper than the US and most of the time the losing party has to pay the legal fees, but you still need to have the money to pay the lawyers during the case. Kind regards, Jeroen Dekkers -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 05:22:50PM -0400, Ludovic Marcotte wrote: Since the addition of Active Sync support in SOGo would be a server-side implementation, there would be a per-mailbox fee to use it. That fee, would have to be paid to Microsoft directly. Do you have any ballpark estimates for what that fee would be? I'm worried that such a per-mailbox fee might not scale very well to ISP scale number of mailboxes. At a minimum it must be based on actual ActiveSync usage, not total number of accounts. Evidently, if we start working on Active Sync support in SOGo, we'll definitively drop Funambol support - which is probably even more exciting then adding Active Sync support. :-) -jf -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
On 2013-09-19 3:03 AM, Jan-Frode Myklebust wrote: Do you have any ballpark estimates for what that fee would be? I'm worried that such a per-mailbox fee might not scale very well to ISP scale number of mailboxes. At a minimum it must be based on actual ActiveSync usage, not total number of accounts. I don't - this would have to be negotiated between the ISP and Microsoft. The prices you sent in your other email are not the ones from Microsoft - which could be significantly lower for large volumes. -- Ludovic Marcotte lmarco...@inverse.ca :: +1.514.755.3630 :: http://inverse.ca Inverse inc. :: Leaders behind SOGo (http://sogo.nu) and PacketFence (http://packetfence.org) -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
Hi, Am 19.09.13 12:47, schrieb Ludovic Marcotte: On 2013-09-19 3:03 AM, Jan-Frode Myklebust wrote: Do you have any ballpark estimates for what that fee would be? I'm worried that such a per-mailbox fee might not scale very well to ISP scale number of mailboxes. At a minimum it must be based on actual ActiveSync usage, not total number of accounts. I don't - this would have to be negotiated between the ISP and Microsoft. The prices you sent in your other email are not the ones from Microsoft - which could be significantly lower for large volumes. Ok, for my understanding: that fees are to pay, when SOGo + AS is used in a ISP setup? What about the company setup? Greetings, Martin -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
On 2013-09-19 6:49 AM, Martin Rabl wrote: Ok, for my understanding: that fees are to pay, when SOGo + AS is used in a ISP setup? What about the company setup? Microsoft charges a per-mailbox fee for Active Sync support. We'll produce the software and distribute it for free, it'll be your responsibility to determine the number of licenses you require and acquire them from Microsoft. We would essentially shovel the license issues in your backyard, while we focus on actual development :-) -- Ludovic Marcotte lmarco...@inverse.ca :: +1.514.755.3630 :: http://inverse.ca Inverse inc. :: Leaders behind SOGo (http://sogo.nu) and PacketFence (http://packetfence.org) -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
Bravo! -- Skickat från mobilusken! -- 18 sep 2013 kl. 23:23 skrev Ludovic Marcotte lmarco...@inverse.ca: Hello, We've been pretty silent when it came to Active Sync support in SOGo for multiple reasons. First of all, there are licensing implications with Microsoft Active Sync. Moreover, there's a plethora of Active Sync implementations out there. We also wanted to see how vendors would adopt CalDAV/CardDAV, how down the drain Funambol would go and the market's impact of the new Windows/Blackberry phones. After digesting all the above for a few weeks, we came to the conclusion we should most likely add Active Sync support to SOGo. Over the past few days, I've been (and still are) in contact with an IP Licensing person at Microsoft. We had interesting discussions which led us to believe we could: create an Active Sync bundle in SOGo for synchronization license it under a free but non-GPL (BSD, for example) distribute it for free We can't use the GPL because of patents restrictions. Z-Push/OPush/Synchotron are all using patented technologies without a license and Microsoft currently does not license to GPL implementations - so using these is not an option. Since the addition of Active Sync support in SOGo would be a server-side implementation, there would be a per-mailbox fee to use it. That fee, would have to be paid to Microsoft directly. On our end, everything would be free of use. Evidently, if we start working on Active Sync support in SOGo, we'll definitively drop Funambol support - which is probably even more exciting then adding Active Sync support. Thanks! -- Ludovic Marcotte lmarco...@inverse.ca :: +1.514.755.3630 :: http://inverse.ca Inverse inc. :: Leaders behind SOGo (http://sogo.nu) and PacketFence (http://packetfence.org) -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
On 19/09/2013 9:09 PM, Davor Vusir wrote: Bravo! -- Skickat från mobilusken! -- 18 sep 2013 kl. 23:23 skrev Ludovic Marcotte lmarco...@inverse.ca mailto:lmarco...@inverse.ca: Hello, We've been pretty silent when it came to Active Sync support in SOGo for multiple reasons. First of all, there are licensing implications with Microsoft Active Sync. Moreover, there's a plethora of Active Sync implementations out there. We also wanted to see how vendors would adopt CalDAV/CardDAV, how down the drain Funambol would go and the market's impact of the new Windows/Blackberry phones. After digesting all the above for a few weeks, we came to the conclusion we should most likely add Active Sync support to SOGo. Over the past few days, I've been (and still are) in contact with an IP Licensing person at Microsoft. We had interesting discussions which led us to believe we could: 1. create an Active Sync bundle in SOGo for synchronization 2. license it under a free but non-GPL (BSD, for example) 3. distribute it for free We can't use the GPL because of patents restrictions. Z-Push/OPush/Synchotron are all using patented technologies without a license and Microsoft currently does not license to GPL implementations - so using these is not an option. Since the addition of Active Sync support in SOGo would be a server-side implementation, there would be a per-mailbox fee to use it. That fee, would have to be paid to Microsoft directly. On our end, everything would be free of use. Evidently, if we start working on Active Sync support in SOGo, we'll definitively drop Funambol support - which is probably even more exciting then adding Active Sync support. Thanks! -- Ludovic Marcotte lmarco...@inverse.ca :: +1.514.755.3630 ::http://inverse.ca Inverse inc. :: Leaders behind SOGo (http://sogo.nu) and PacketFence (http://packetfence.org) Um... I just want to say you guys ROCK!!! Now we are getting somewhere :) */Regards,/* */Steven Swarts/* -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
On 09/19/13 09:10, Rémi Letot wrote: Ludovic Marcotte lmarco...@inverse.ca writes: 1. create an Active Sync bundle in SOGo for synchronization 2. license it under a free but non-GPL (BSD, for example) 3. distribute it for free We can't use the GPL because of patents restrictions. Z-Push/OPush/Synchotron are all using patented technologies without a license and Microsoft currently does not license to GPL implementations - so using these is not an option. Don't forget that software patents are invalid in big parts of the world, so these technologies are not infringing anything there. I know I'm on the fringe of this, but this looks a bit worrying. I've three questions: Is that only true as long as Inverse are careful not to derive anything from Microsoft-copyrighted works? Could something semi-detached Funambol-like be done instead of moving SOGo away from the GPL? Would Inverse consider devoting similar resources to helping the Caldav and Carddav adapter developers as being used helping Microsoft? Thanks, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/ -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
At Thu, 19 Sep 2013 10:10:24 +0200, Rémi Letot wrote: Ludovic Marcotte lmarco...@inverse.ca writes: 1. create an Active Sync bundle in SOGo for synchronization 2. license it under a free but non-GPL (BSD, for example) 3. distribute it for free We can't use the GPL because of patents restrictions. Z-Push/OPush/Synchotron are all using patented technologies without a license and Microsoft currently does not license to GPL implementations - so using these is not an option. Don't forget that software patents are invalid in big parts of the world, so these technologies are not infringing anything there. Since the addition of Active Sync support in SOGo would be a server-side implementation, there would be a per-mailbox fee to use it. That fee, would have to be paid to Microsoft directly. On our end, everything would be free of use. Again, that fee would only apply where software patents are valid, which is great news for European users like me :-) I would advise anyone who is going to professionally run an ActiveSync service to not just think software patents are invalid in Europe and at least ask for legal advice. The situation is unfortunately a lot more complex than software being patentable or not. In Europe software as such is not patentable and what as such exactly means isn't really clear. The EPO interpretation is very narrow and the EPO has granted a lot of software patents. I'm not following all the things going on in software patent world anymore, but as far as I remeber a UK court did invalidate a patent because it was on software as such. On the other hand a Dutch court enforced a software patent from Apple on the photo gallery of some Samsung phones. I don't know if Samsung had tried to get the patent invalidated on the basis that is a patent on software as such, but I think we can't just disregard all microsoft patents on the basis that software patents aren't valid in Europe. Kind regards, Jeroen Dekkers -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
On 13-09-19 12:45 PM, MJ Ray wrote: Could something semi-detached Funambol-like be done instead of moving SOGo away from the GPL? We're not moving SOGo away from the GPL. the active sync stuff will have to be licensed under another license, but that's it. -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
Jeroen Dekkers jer...@dekkers.ch writes: At Thu, 19 Sep 2013 10:10:24 +0200, Rémi Letot wrote: Ludovic Marcotte lmarco...@inverse.ca writes: 1. create an Active Sync bundle in SOGo for synchronization 2. license it under a free but non-GPL (BSD, for example) 3. distribute it for free We can't use the GPL because of patents restrictions. Z-Push/OPush/Synchotron are all using patented technologies without a license and Microsoft currently does not license to GPL implementations - so using these is not an option. Don't forget that software patents are invalid in big parts of the world, so these technologies are not infringing anything there. Since the addition of Active Sync support in SOGo would be a server-side implementation, there would be a per-mailbox fee to use it. That fee, would have to be paid to Microsoft directly. On our end, everything would be free of use. Again, that fee would only apply where software patents are valid, which is great news for European users like me :-) I would advise anyone who is going to professionally run an ActiveSync service to not just think software patents are invalid in Europe and at least ask for legal advice. The situation is unfortunately a lot more complex than software being patentable or not. In Europe software as such is not patentable and what as such exactly means isn't really clear. The EPO interpretation is very narrow and the EPO has granted a lot of software patents. Which does not mean that these patents would hold in court. But I agree: defending oneself could be prohibitively expensive, and hasardeous. I'm not following all the things going on in software patent world anymore, but as far as I remeber a UK court did invalidate a patent because it was on software as such. On the other hand a Dutch court enforced a software patent from Apple on the photo gallery of some Samsung phones. I don't know if Samsung had tried to get the patent invalidated on the basis that is a patent on software as such, AFAIK, it was not on software «as such», but on the way the user interracts with the interface (which itself is implemented in software), which is a whole different thing. but I think we can't just disregard all microsoft patents on the basis that software patents aren't valid in Europe. Of course not, but software patents and patents on protocols or interfaces are completely out of scope in Europe (despite the EPO granting them). I can't see what in the active sync protocol could be considered patentable in Europe, there is no interraction with «the forces of nature» that I'm aware of. Microsoft could still try to defend it's patents in court, which would be a definitive blow to any European small business, but I really don't think they would risk confirmation of the invalidity of their patents for any small business scale operation. Now of course IANAL, this is only IMHO and all :-) Thanks, -- Rémi -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
[SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
Hello, We've been pretty silent when it came to Active Sync support in SOGo for multiple reasons. First of all, there are licensing implications with Microsoft Active Sync. Moreover, there's a plethora of Active Sync implementations out there. We also wanted to see how vendors would adopt CalDAV/CardDAV, how down the drain Funambol would go and the market's impact of the new Windows/Blackberry phones. After digesting all the above for a few weeks, we came to the conclusion we should most likely add Active Sync support to SOGo. Over the past few days, I've been (and still are) in contact with an IP Licensing person at Microsoft. We had interesting discussions which led us to believe we could: 1. create an Active Sync bundle in SOGo for synchronization 2. license it under a free but non-GPL (BSD, for example) 3. distribute it for free We can't use the GPL because of patents restrictions. Z-Push/OPush/Synchotron are all using patented technologies without a license and Microsoft currently does not license to GPL implementations - so using these is not an option. Since the addition of Active Sync support in SOGo would be a server-side implementation, there would be a per-mailbox fee to use it. That fee, would have to be paid to Microsoft directly. On our end, everything would be free of use. Evidently, if we start working on Active Sync support in SOGo, we'll definitively drop Funambol support - which is probably even more exciting then adding Active Sync support. Thanks! -- Ludovic Marcotte lmarco...@inverse.ca :: +1.514.755.3630 :: http://inverse.ca Inverse inc. :: Leaders behind SOGo (http://sogo.nu) and PacketFence (http://packetfence.org) -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
Hi,
So does this going to be like OpenXchange or Zarafa or Zimbra or other
email solution which will be chargeable based on the user accessing via
Microsoft ActiveSync protocol.
Why can't we move away from Microsoft license.
On Thursday, September 19, 2013, Ludovic Marcotte wrote:
Hello,
We've been pretty silent when it came to Active Sync support in SOGo for
multiple reasons.
First of all, there are licensing implications with Microsoft Active Sync.
Moreover, there's a plethora of Active Sync implementations out there. We
also wanted to see how vendors would adopt CalDAV/CardDAV, how down the
drain Funambol would go and the market's impact of the new
Windows/Blackberry phones.
After digesting all the above for a few weeks, we came to the conclusion
we should most likely add Active Sync support to SOGo.
Over the past few days, I've been (and still are) in contact with an IP
Licensing person at Microsoft. We had interesting discussions which led us
to believe we could:
1. create an Active Sync bundle in SOGo for synchronization
2. license it under a free but non-GPL (BSD, for example)
3. distribute it for free
We can't use the GPL because of patents restrictions.
Z-Push/OPush/Synchotron are all using patented technologies without a
license and Microsoft currently does not license to GPL implementations -
so using these is not an option.
Since the addition of Active Sync support in SOGo would be a server-side
implementation, there would be a per-mailbox fee to use it. That fee, would
have to be paid to Microsoft directly. On our end, everything would be free
of use.
Evidently, if we start working on Active Sync support in SOGo, we'll
definitively drop Funambol support - which is probably even more exciting
then adding Active Sync support.
Thanks!
--
Ludovic marcottelmarco...@inverse.ca javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'lmarco...@inverse.ca'); :: +1.514.755.3630 :: http://inverse.ca
Inverse inc. :: Leaders behind SOGo (http://sogo.nu) and PacketFence
(http://packetfence.org)
--
users@sogo.nu
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Active Sync support in SOGo
It's great :) -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
