Re: [libreoffice-users] Has it all except ... #2
On 16/03/11 07:15, Bruce Carlson wrote: I now use evolution on my linux machines and until evolution for windows improves sufficiently I simply will not use windows for emails at all. Except this smart phone--HTC touch pro 2-- Evolution email imports all calenda and contact info from outlook with no problems. The major problem I found with Evolution is that it won't write tasks to an internet-based calendar. I use icalx.com to automatically synch calendar AND tasks between two machines and Evolution will not write tasks to that calendar. The Lightning extension in Thunderbird will. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
RE: [libreoffice-users] Has it all except ... #2
Hi Gordon, At work I'm forced to use outlook but at home I use evolution and for my calendar events, when I get calendar invitations in my outlook at work I forward them to my home email address and evolution imports them seamlessly into the evolution calendar. This works very well but I have not tried sending an invitation from evolution to outlook. I might try that and see what happens. But I think you are touching on an area that all office suits including MS have a long way to go in developing industry standards. I guess that while ever Microsoft refuses to talk to the rest of the industry in respect to standards we will always have a situation of there is MS and here is everyone else. As for thunderbird , the best thing there was it's crashing led me to discover evolution which I find to be light years ahead of thunderbird except that the windows version is still in it's infantsy and runs extreemly slow on my old windows xp laptop and as I have no intention of ever using any other version of windows ever again for as long as I live I no longer care about any software for windows. Bring on the alternatives I say. And the more the better. Bruce Carlson Business Systems Manager. 117-153 Rookwood Rd Yagoona NSW 2199 Tel: 02 9707 5277 Fax: 02 9769 1744 email: bruce.carl...@nepeangroup.com -Original Message- From: Gordon Burgess-Parker [mailto:gbpli...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 16 March 2011 11:24 PM To: users@libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Has it all except ... #2 On 16/03/11 07:15, Bruce Carlson wrote: I now use evolution on my linux machines and until evolution for windows improves sufficiently I simply will not use windows for emails at all. Except this smart phone--HTC touch pro 2-- Evolution email imports all calenda and contact info from outlook with no problems. The major problem I found with Evolution is that it won't write tasks to an internet-based calendar. I use icalx.com to automatically synch calendar AND tasks between two machines and Evolution will not write tasks to that calendar. The Lightning extension in Thunderbird will. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
RE: [libreoffice-users] Has it all except ... #2
so sorry about the suits and suites, but sadly, spelling (or proof reading) is not one of my scills :) :) All this discussion came about because of the fact that large organisations such as Microsoft are able to offer a wide range of interrelated applications where as the smaller producers and I include in that the open source developer communities, at best can only offer a small range of products and we have to rely on a number of producers and open source communities to provide the whole gamut of applications we use on a day to day basis. It is simply easier for a large company to offer an all in one package but that does not make their products better than the smaller producer or open source community. In fact it is the later that generally provides the better quality. The answer, I believe, as I said before, is in the open source communities being able to share more and to get more involved with industry standards so that we don't only get a wide variety of providers but also a wide variety of possible combinations of products that should all fit together seamlessly. Maybe I'm the dreamer but all indications to me are that that is the way the future is moving despite the desires and wishes of companies like Oracle and Microsoft. It is definitely better for us the customers. I understand that Mac users are the most neglected when it comes to software choices but that is mostly Apple's fault for tying everything up and limiting the incentive for software development. The answer there is when you have to do your next hardware upgrade move to Linux. There are some very good distributions available now that would make most mac users feel right at home. Bruce Carlson -Original Message- From: Glenn [mailto:glenns...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, 17 March 2011 2:37 PM To: users@libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Has it all except ... #2 Bruce, Alas, no evolution support for MAC yet. These days I'm just a home user and I don't count. It saddens me. It saddens me, but not enough to use Win unless I am forced to. I guess evolution is beyond my reach at this time. Glenn P.S. Was the office suits reference just a pun or did you mean office suites? On 3/16/11 7:37 PM, Bruce Carlson wrote: Hi Gordon, But I think you are touching on an area that all office suits including MS have a long way to go in developing industry standards. I guess that while ever Microsoft refuses to talk to the rest of the industry in respect to standards we will always have a situation of there is MS and here is everyone else. As for thunderbird , the best thing there was it's crashing led me to discover evolution which I find to be light years ahead of thunderbird... Bruce Carlson Business Systems Manager -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-users] Has it all except ... #2
And... according to the Virtual-Access website, it's a Windows-only application (win32) which makes it a very poor fit since it leaves out everyone who uses Linux and OSX. Ok, that uncovers my other agenda. I'm trying to shift away from Windoze and VA is one of my few remaining apps there, so moving it to include other platforms would be a big plus from my pov. Yes, I know that's not a trivial thing, but is it any worse than building from scratch? Point taken about Thunderbird and the need, or not, of having a mail facility integrated into LO. My starting point here was the LO/OO claim to match M$. Clearly neither of them do since there is no mail package included. This is, I suspect one of those points that is a real stumbling block for takeup by businesses since many make extensive use of Outlook. It's not hard (in relative terms) to produce an email app better than Outlook, it's pretty appalling, and in fact it's integration into M$Office is fairly limited as far as I can see. However, LO/OO do not have a related email facility... Just thought I'd make the suggestion. :-) Regards Mark Stanton One small step for mankind... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-users] Has it all except ... #2
Hello Mark, On 15/03/11 08:14, Mark Stanton wrote: [...] I'm trying to shift away from Windoze and VA is one of my few remaining apps there, so moving it to include other platforms would be a big plus from my pov. [...] Point taken about Thunderbird and the need, or not, of having a mail facility integrated into LO. My starting point here was the LO/OO claim to match M$. Clearly neither of them do since there is no mail package included. This is, I suspect one of those points that is a real stumbling block for takeup by businesses since many make extensive use of Outlook. It's not hard (in relative terms) to produce an email app better than Outlook, it's pretty appalling, and in fact it's integration into M$Office is fairly limited as far as I can see. However, LO/OO do not have a related email facility.. I think you would get further if you thought of it not as shifting away from Microsoft to LibreOffice, but from Microsoft to F/LOSS software. I understand what you mean. Although I don't agree that LibreOffice claims to match M$ (which wouldn't even make any sense), it certainly does claim to be an alternative to Microsoft's Office suite. The problem is that MS and the open source world approach things from diametrically opposed starting points. MS, being a huge corporation and justifiably always wanting to sell more and capture new markets, thinks, LET'S DO EVERYTHING!, and as you said yourself, doesn't do a great job at some of the component parts of 'everything'. Meanwhile in F/LOSS land, small communities and passionate individuals think, Let's do One thing, and do it Well, and make it Interoperable with other things. The bottom line is that, given that there are already mature alternative F/LOSS email managers, I would put money on the assertion that LibreOffice will /Never/ include an MS-Outlookalike :-) Quote me on that! But that does create an issue for people in your position, who are used to a simple life, where there is the One True Solution ;-) So perhaps what we /Should/ do is work on our cross-marketing. Use the LibreOffice document creation suite along with the Thunderbird email manager, and vice versa. -- Ryan -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-users] Has it all except ... #2
On 14/03/11 09:40, Mark Stanton wrote: Further to Fernando's post I'd like to add a thought. I hadn't noticed the project planning thing, but it seems to me that (aside from that?) What LO misses, compared to M$Office, is an email facility. I think the point is, (and this has been done to death on the Open Office lists as well IIR) that CHOICE is the whole thing. The versions of both OO and LO downloaded from the respective websites (NOT, I'm afraid, those versions installed with distros like Ubuntu) have very good integration with ANY EMAIL CLIENT you choose, unlike MS Office where Word will ONLY use Outlook contacts for example. (Of course Word will also use an Excel or Access spreadsheet/database as a mailmerge source, but for Contacts, it's Outlook ONLY) so IMHO the fact that OO/LO have never had an integral email client is a GOOD THING ^TM and should be kept. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-users] Has it all except ... #2
Hi, Thanks for the thoughtful reply. To clear up an incorrect impression I seem to have created, I'm not a M$ Office user, haven't ever been, except when I've been forced into it at some particular site where I've been on contract. As a Virtual Access user I'm... Shall we say underwhelmed by Outlook, of any variety. And in fact most M$ s/w. The purpose behind my suggestion was primarily to offer a route to strengthen the LO package. I agree that it is silly for people to expect LO/OO to be an exact replacement for M$O, but it seems to me that covering the same bases that M$O does would make LO a far more attractive, and easier, step to take for the mainstream. LO/OO/Linux not offering that *easy* step is of course (?) why they still have so much scope for expansion. I thought I had seen a statement on the LO website which amounted to a claim to match M$O, but I can't find it now so I might've made it up, sorry. It's true that Outlook isn't really integrated into the other packages, in fact it seems to me the LO/OO suite is far better integrated, however that's not the point I wanted to make. It's the fact that LO doesn't offer anything in the email category. I agree that using something already existing would be a smart move. It only needs to install it, if that... I just wanna change the world so that those small communities and passionate individuals really make a wide scale difference, just a small step. :-) Mark Stanton One small step for mankind... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-users] Has it all except ... #2
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 10:40, Mark Stanton wrote: Further to Fernando's post I'd like to add a thought. I hadn't noticed the project planning thing, but it seems to me that (aside from that?) What LO misses, compared to M$Office, is an email facility. I'd suggest that Virtual Access (www.virtual-access.org) would be a good fit. It's a stable and very capable product, now an open source application. Integration would, of course, be a job, but as an extremely capable application in its own right it might/should be a better place to start than from scratch? And... according to the Virtual-Access website, it's a Windows-only application (win32) which makes it a very poor fit since it leaves out everyone who uses Linux and OSX. C. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-users] Has it all except ... #2
Well, since there´s already thunderbird, and it´s really really good, and it´s alredy well integrated into major distros(Ubuntu, etc...), don´t really feel that integrating it into LO would be so great, since it´s already integrated into desktop enviroment. Of course one could say that TJ is already out there, so why integrate/use it? Well, most managers I know use M$ PJ, so theres a high demand amongst these people. Being expensive as it is the M$ product. Ignoring Mr. Glenn rude comments, he should take a look at some marketing material and ask himself: 1- Why do people prefer to buy an apple notebook? Even OpenSource developers? 2- Why GNU/Linux distros just can´t make to OEM market? Even Ubuntu? Remenber that there are geeks/hackers/programers/developers, and theres the regular Joe. Following Mr. Eric Raymond´s work, Cathedral and Baazar, we should now include regular people. Most don´t even know what LO is, or Linux, or GNU, that´s why integrators are needed, such as Ubuntu, Fedora... Ok, that was really off-topic. Sorry. 2011/3/14 Glenn glenns...@gmail.com On 3/14/11 5:40 AM, Mark Stanton wrote: Further to Fernando's post I'd like to add a thought. I hadn't noticed the project planning thing, but it seems to me that (aside from that?) What LO misses, compared to M$Office, is an email facility. I'd suggest that Virtual Access (www.virtual-access.org) would be a good fit. It's a stable and very capable product, now an open source application. Integration would, of course, be a job, but as an extremely capable application in its own right it might/should be a better place to start than from scratch? Regards Mark Stanton Mark, Regarding One small step for mankind... I love these exchanges! Please keep them coming in! They're actually a BIG step for mankind. -- Glenn You have the world at your fingertips. No one can make it better than you. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Fernando da Motta Hildebrand -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-users] Has it all except ... #2
On 03/14/2011 06:05 AM, Glenn wrote: On 3/14/11 5:40 AM, Mark Stanton wrote: Further to Fernando's post I'd like to add a thought. I hadn't noticed the project planning thing, but it seems to me that (aside from that?) What LO misses, compared to M$Office, is an email facility. I'd suggest that Virtual Access (www.virtual-access.org) would be a good fit. It's a stable and very capable product, now an open source application. Integration would, of course, be a job, but as an extremely capable application in its own right it might/should be a better place to start than from scratch? Regards Mark Stanton Mark, Regarding One small step for mankind... I love these exchanges! Please keep them coming in! They're actually a BIG step for mankind. Virtual Access (www.virtual-access.org) - their web site states: [quote] Virtual Access is a mature and well established Windows mail, news and conferencing product .. [unquote] What if you use Linux or Mac OSX? It would be nice to find a similar main, news, and conferencing product that works for Windows, Linux .deb [32/64-bit], Linux .rpm [32/64-bit], and Mac OSX. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-users] Has it all except ... #2
Le 2011-03-14 09:59, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions a écrit : . Virtual Access (www.virtual-access.org) - their web site states: [quote] Virtual Access is a mature and well established Windows mail, news and conferencing product .. [unquote] What if you use Linux or Mac OSX? It would be nice to find a similar main, news, and conferencing product that works for Windows, Linux .deb [32/64-bit], Linux .rpm [32/64-bit], and Mac OSX. What struck me is not the Windows-only application, but rather the description of a programme in vague terms. It's a concept, and it may be a very good concept, but for a guy like me who is satisfied with Thunderbird and could be satisfied with Outlook, what would I gain with Virtual Access? Or even with a presentation like Google Mail? – Conversations? I already have them in Thunderbird. Messages are organized by threads (real ones, not pseudo ones like Outlook). But what's the point in reading conversations and having quoted parts automatically closed if people reply on top? – News... Except for a few geeks, I think the medium is mostly dead. – Conferencing: Yes, that's missing from Thunderbird and Outlook. The latest version of Outlook does a bit of it, but in a fairly cumbersome way that looks like an afterthought. What is needed is a kind of white board. It should use the address book found in Thunderbird or Outlook (or System contacts), but should probably be a separate application because it requires much more overhead than email. I like Thunderbird because I can leave it open in the background. Not sure I could do that with a heavier application, especially if I want to build a few macros in Calc, use InDesign, Photoshop and, why not, a modelling program. As far as integration between mail and LibreOffice, I don't think mail needs to be integrated into LibreOffice and I don't think it should unless integration goes way beyond what's done between Outlook and the rest of the Microsoft Office suite. Practically, I think the following integration aspects could be improved in LibreOffice without developing a new email software: – better access of Thunderbird Address book or Outlook address book for mail merge documents (i.e. no need to export the address book first) – better integration of Thunderbird in Exchange or Exchange-like platforms (but that's a Thunderbird problem, not a LibreOffice problem). -- Michel Gagnon – mic...@mgagnon.net mailto:mic...@mgagnon.net Montréal (Québec, Canada) – mgagnon.net http://mgagnon.net -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-users] Has it all except ... #2
Strongly worded, but well-aimed I think. I have an iMAC running OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard) and I use Thunderbird. I would welcome conferencing but because of my choices, I am standing out on the loose edges. I have been let down by Windows-only decisions made by developers and/or vendors too. Let's go OpenSource where ever possible - all the way! On 3/14/11 12:35 PM, Michel Gagnon wrote: Le 2011-03-14 09:59, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions a écrit : . Virtual Access (www.virtual-access.org) - their web site states: [quote] Virtual Access is a mature and well established Windows mail, news and conferencing product .. [unquote] What if you use Linux or Mac OSX? It would be nice to find a similar main, news, and conferencing product that works for Windows, Linux .deb [32/64-bit], Linux .rpm [32/64-bit], and Mac OSX. What struck me is not the Windows-only application, but rather the description of a programme in vague terms. It's a concept, and it may be a very good concept, but for a guy like me who is satisfied with Thunderbird and could be satisfied with Outlook, what would I gain with Virtual Access? Or even with a presentation like Google Mail? – Conversations? I already have them in Thunderbird. Messages are organized by threads (real ones, not pseudo ones like Outlook). But what's the point in reading conversations and having quoted parts automatically closed if people reply on top? – News... Except for a few geeks, I think the medium is mostly dead. – Conferencing: Yes, that's missing from Thunderbird and Outlook. The latest version of Outlook does a bit of it, but in a fairly cumbersome way that looks like an afterthought. What is needed is a kind of white board. It should use the address book found in Thunderbird or Outlook (or System contacts), but should probably be a separate application because it requires much more overhead than email. I like Thunderbird because I can leave it open in the background. Not sure I could do that with a heavier application, especially if I want to build a few macros in Calc, use InDesign, Photoshop and, why not, a modelling program. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to users+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
