Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors - find next
Hi! Le 20/02/2013 01:38, anne-ology a écrit : pardon moi, mais ... ;-) well, just butting in with a 'bit of humour' - this definition strikes my punny-bone ;-) :-) To confuse the foreigners more re. the craziness of the English language ;-) the computer language has re-defined any number of words; weel, the French language has, too. No problem, I can appreciate puns and humour :) au revoir, mon ami, Au revoir ! -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors - find next
pardon moi, mais ... ;-) well, just butting in with a 'bit of humour' - this definition strikes my punny-bone ;-) To confuse the foreigners more re. the craziness of the English language ;-) the computer language has re-defined any number of words; CDs went from banking to something slid into the computer ... memory referred to the human brain then the computer's storage bank ... application went from a form to something working within the computer's storage bank cursor was a blasphemer then a point moving amidst the computer's screen ... keyboard went from the pianos to the typewriters to the computer - thus keys are on the keyboard, yet keys went from opening locks to buttons clicked on ... a web was made by a spider then became a site - ah, maybe that's how hackers decided to draw their victim into their web ... virus went from a bacterial infection to - ah, hackers do infect their victim ... au revoir, mon ami, don't worry about the craziness of the English language, you're doing great. On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Jean-Francois Nifenecker jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net wrote: Tom, Eric, Le 16/02/2013 13:18, Eric Beversluis a écrit : I was asking about the keyboard PgDn button. On-screen buttons are a different topic. to my French understanding, a button is some screen widget. On a keyboard there are only keys. Sorry if I misunderstood. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors - find next
I was asking about the keyboard PgDn button. On-screen buttons are a different topic. On Sat, 2013-02-16 at 04:01 +, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) ???!?!!?!?? Ahh. You were talking about on-screen buttons? The ones under the vertical scroll bar? Middle one is called Navigation. I was talking about keyboard buttons. Now i'm not sure what anyone else was talking about. It's 4am though so i might still be dreaming or having a nightmare or something. I thought i understood but now i'm flummoxed. Regards form Tom :) From: Jean-Francois Nifenecker jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Friday, 15 February 2013, 22:24 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors - find next Le 15/02/2013 22:59, bill a écrit : I am keeping the same thread as it is closely related. The one thing that I really don't like is that as soon as you do a search the page down button becomes continue search forward and the page up becomes continue search backwards. That is fine while you are searching, but how does one return it to page up and page down ? You'll notice that then the page buttons are changing colours: by default, they turn blue in search mode while they are black in scroll mode. To get back from the search mode to the scroll mode, just click the center button (whatitsname?) and select the page icon. HTH, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors - find next
Tom, Eric, Le 16/02/2013 13:18, Eric Beversluis a écrit : I was asking about the keyboard PgDn button. On-screen buttons are a different topic. to my French understanding, a button is some screen widget. On a keyboard there are only keys. Sorry if I misunderstood. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors - find next
You're right, of course. We started talking about keys, but then somewhere the word 'button' started getting used to refer to keys. However Tom's reference to the 'Edit File' button to toggle between 'read only' and 'edit' was correct usage--though it may have put 'button' rather than 'key' into our heads. On Sat, 2013-02-16 at 14:31 +0100, Jean-Francois Nifenecker wrote: Tom, Eric, Le 16/02/2013 13:18, Eric Beversluis a écrit : I was asking about the keyboard PgDn button. On-screen buttons are a different topic. to my French understanding, a button is some screen widget. On a keyboard there are only keys. Sorry if I misunderstood. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors
At 09:35 15/02/2013 -0500, Eric Beversluis wrote: Something I've never figured out--and seems true of LO/OO as well as M$ Word: When reading through a document, one hits 'PgDn', but one doesn't get a new page--it only scrolls down some seemingly arbitrary number of lines. One has to scan the new screen to see what one left off reading and one may only have gotten a half page of new reading for the effort. Maybe I'm spoiled by e-readers. But maybe, even after all these years, I haven't figured out how to do this correctly in a word processor. I think you are missing the different functions of the two sorts of software. E-readers are what they say they are: readers. In other words, their users are using them to read documents. More than that, in general they will be reading the documents sequentially: when they get to the end of one page, they will next want to see the next page. And the only sense of page is as much as fills the screen of the display device. Word processors are quite different. In general, they are still fixated on printing the final document: the page size is the format of the eventual supposed printed version, not necessarily (and not usually) the size and format of the screen used for display. People usually choose settings that display less than a printed page of a document; if you were looking at such a screenful and then moved down a full page, you would unhelpfully have missed part of the text. But the bigger point is that a word processor is designed for editing, not reading. If you are editing at one point in a document and you now need to move down to a point currently off your screen image, it is not at all obvious - quite unlikely, in fact - that you would want to move to a following page. It is much more likely that you would want to be able to see some part of the document further down but whilst also still seeing the part on which you had just been working. The original model, then, is that no-one would read documents on screen but only from hard copy. It is interesting that software has been moving towards servicing screen reading, albeit rather slowly. Microsoft Powerpoint allows you to save a presentation as a slide show, in which case it opens for any recipient as for display, not for further editing. Microsoft Word has a reading mode, which displays screenfuls - not necessarily in the original layout - and in which your page down function works as you want. There is also a freeware Word Viewer available from Microsoft, intended for users without Microsoft Word installed. Again, since this is a reader and not an editor, it responds to page down requests by moving down a screenful. Oh, and try opening a read-only file with LibreOffice Writer: I think you'll find that it will now treat page down differently and move down (almost) a screenful. Should word processing and similar software provide an explicit reading mode for use in reading, not editing, documents? Possibly. Meanwhile, if you want something close to this behaviour in Writer, here's your workaround: just click the Edit File button in the Standard toolbar to toggle on this behaviour. I trust this helps. Brian Barker -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors
Hi :) Yes, the button probably should say Screen down instead of page down for most uses of the button and only say Page down for those rare cases where it really does mean a page. Regards from Tom :) PS blimey a short answer for once!! lol From: Brian Barker b.m.bar...@btinternet.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Friday, 15 February 2013, 15:15 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors At 09:35 15/02/2013 -0500, Eric Beversluis wrote: Something I've never figured out--and seems true of LO/OO as well as M$ Word: When reading through a document, one hits 'PgDn', but one doesn't get a new page--it only scrolls down some seemingly arbitrary number of lines. One has to scan the new screen to see what one left off reading and one may only have gotten a half page of new reading for the effort. Maybe I'm spoiled by e-readers. But maybe, even after all these years, I haven't figured out how to do this correctly in a word processor. I think you are missing the different functions of the two sorts of software. E-readers are what they say they are: readers. In other words, their users are using them to read documents. More than that, in general they will be reading the documents sequentially: when they get to the end of one page, they will next want to see the next page. And the only sense of page is as much as fills the screen of the display device. Word processors are quite different. In general, they are still fixated on printing the final document: the page size is the format of the eventual supposed printed version, not necessarily (and not usually) the size and format of the screen used for display. People usually choose settings that display less than a printed page of a document; if you were looking at such a screenful and then moved down a full page, you would unhelpfully have missed part of the text. But the bigger point is that a word processor is designed for editing, not reading. If you are editing at one point in a document and you now need to move down to a point currently off your screen image, it is not at all obvious - quite unlikely, in fact - that you would want to move to a following page. It is much more likely that you would want to be able to see some part of the document further down but whilst also still seeing the part on which you had just been working. The original model, then, is that no-one would read documents on screen but only from hard copy. It is interesting that software has been moving towards servicing screen reading, albeit rather slowly. Microsoft Powerpoint allows you to save a presentation as a slide show, in which case it opens for any recipient as for display, not for further editing. Microsoft Word has a reading mode, which displays screenfuls - not necessarily in the original layout - and in which your page down function works as you want. There is also a freeware Word Viewer available from Microsoft, intended for users without Microsoft Word installed. Again, since this is a reader and not an editor, it responds to page down requests by moving down a screenful. Oh, and try opening a read-only file with LibreOffice Writer: I think you'll find that it will now treat page down differently and move down (almost) a screenful. Should word processing and similar software provide an explicit reading mode for use in reading, not editing, documents? Possibly. Meanwhile, if you want something close to this behaviour in Writer, here's your workaround: just click the Edit File button in the Standard toolbar to toggle on this behaviour. I trust this helps. Brian Barker -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors
But the issue is now what it's called. The problem is that it doesn't screen down consistently, giving a full new screen save for a consistent one- or two-line overlap at the top. On Fri, 2013-02-15 at 15:25 +, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Yes, the button probably should say Screen down instead of page down for most uses of the button and only say Page down for those rare cases where it really does mean a page. Regards from Tom :) PS blimey a short answer for once!! lol From: Brian Barker b.m.bar...@btinternet.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Friday, 15 February 2013, 15:15 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors At 09:35 15/02/2013 -0500, Eric Beversluis wrote: Something I've never figured out--and seems true of LO/OO as well as M$ Word: When reading through a document, one hits 'PgDn', but one doesn't get a new page--it only scrolls down some seemingly arbitrary number of lines. One has to scan the new screen to see what one left off reading and one may only have gotten a half page of new reading for the effort. Maybe I'm spoiled by e-readers. But maybe, even after all these years, I haven't figured out how to do this correctly in a word processor. I think you are missing the different functions of the two sorts of software. E-readers are what they say they are: readers. In other words, their users are using them to read documents. More than that, in general they will be reading the documents sequentially: when they get to the end of one page, they will next want to see the next page. And the only sense of page is as much as fills the screen of the display device. Word processors are quite different. In general, they are still fixated on printing the final document: the page size is the format of the eventual supposed printed version, not necessarily (and not usually) the size and format of the screen used for display. People usually choose settings that display less than a printed page of a document; if you were looking at such a screenful and then moved down a full page, you would unhelpfully have missed part of the text. But the bigger point is that a word processor is designed for editing, not reading. If you are editing at one point in a document and you now need to move down to a point currently off your screen image, it is not at all obvious - quite unlikely, in fact - that you would want to move to a following page. It is much more likely that you would want to be able to see some part of the document further down but whilst also still seeing the part on which you had just been working. The original model, then, is that no-one would read documents on screen but only from hard copy. It is interesting that software has been moving towards servicing screen reading, albeit rather slowly. Microsoft Powerpoint allows you to save a presentation as a slide show, in which case it opens for any recipient as for display, not for further editing. Microsoft Word has a reading mode, which displays screenfuls - not necessarily in the original layout - and in which your page down function works as you want. There is also a freeware Word Viewer available from Microsoft, intended for users without Microsoft Word installed. Again, since this is a reader and not an editor, it responds to page down requests by moving down a screenful. Oh, and try opening a read-only file with LibreOffice Writer: I think you'll find that it will now treat page down differently and move down (almost) a screenful. Should word processing and similar software provide an explicit reading mode for use in reading, not editing, documents? Possibly. Meanwhile, if you want something close to this behaviour in Writer, here's your workaround: just click the Edit File button in the Standard toolbar to toggle on this behaviour. I trust this helps. Brian Barker -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors
Brian Barker wrote: I think you are missing the different functions of the two sorts of software. Page Up Page Down go back to the days of dumb terminals connected to a mainframe or minicomputer and a page referred to a full screen of data. Back in the late '70s early '80s I used to support some terminals connected to a Data General Nova minicomputer, where all the editing was done on the Nova. About the only editing you could do directly on the terminal was inserting deleting characters. The page keys would move the display through the document, with only a small amount of overlap, that is with a Page Down, the bottom line on the old screen would become the top line on the new. The reverse occurred with Page Up. There was no mouse either, just cursor keys, though another system I worked on used a joy stick. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors
Hi :) Oh wow yeah. Those green screens where you could see the individual dots making up the screen. The strange greeness a tunnel through to far away places. Regards from Tom :) From: James Knott james.kn...@rogers.com To: LibreOffice users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Friday, 15 February 2013, 16:05 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors Brian Barker wrote: I think you are missing the different functions of the two sorts of software. Page Up Page Down go back to the days of dumb terminals connected to a mainframe or minicomputer and a page referred to a full screen of data. Back in the late '70s early '80s I used to support some terminals connected to a Data General Nova minicomputer, where all the editing was done on the Nova. About the only editing you could do directly on the terminal was inserting deleting characters. The page keys would move the display through the document, with only a small amount of overlap, that is with a Page Down, the bottom line on the old screen would become the top line on the new. The reverse occurred with Page Up. There was no mouse either, just cursor keys, though another system I worked on used a joy stick. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors
Hi :) The button that worries me is the Windows key with the MS logo on it. Are the police likely to knock down my door now that i have painted over it with a rather bad copy of the Ubuntu logo? Also why does Ubuntu store sell a keyboard with the Windows logo on that key?!! Regards from Tom :) From: Eric Beversluis ebe...@researchintegration.org To: Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Brian Barker b.m.bar...@btinternet.com; users@global.libreoffice.org users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Friday, 15 February 2013, 15:50 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors But the issue is now what it's called. The problem is that it doesn't screen down consistently, giving a full new screen save for a consistent one- or two-line overlap at the top. On Fri, 2013-02-15 at 15:25 +, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Yes, the button probably should say Screen down instead of page down for most uses of the button and only say Page down for those rare cases where it really does mean a page. Regards from Tom :) PS blimey a short answer for once!! lol From: Brian Barker b.m.bar...@btinternet.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Friday, 15 February 2013, 15:15 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors At 09:35 15/02/2013 -0500, Eric Beversluis wrote: Something I've never figured out--and seems true of LO/OO as well as M$ Word: When reading through a document, one hits 'PgDn', but one doesn't get a new page--it only scrolls down some seemingly arbitrary number of lines. One has to scan the new screen to see what one left off reading and one may only have gotten a half page of new reading for the effort. Maybe I'm spoiled by e-readers. But maybe, even after all these years, I haven't figured out how to do this correctly in a word processor. I think you are missing the different functions of the two sorts of software. E-readers are what they say they are: readers. In other words, their users are using them to read documents. More than that, in general they will be reading the documents sequentially: when they get to the end of one page, they will next want to see the next page. And the only sense of page is as much as fills the screen of the display device. Word processors are quite different. In general, they are still fixated on printing the final document: the page size is the format of the eventual supposed printed version, not necessarily (and not usually) the size and format of the screen used for display. People usually choose settings that display less than a printed page of a document; if you were looking at such a screenful and then moved down a full page, you would unhelpfully have missed part of the text. But the bigger point is that a word processor is designed for editing, not reading. If you are editing at one point in a document and you now need to move down to a point currently off your screen image, it is not at all obvious - quite unlikely, in fact - that you would want to move to a following page. It is much more likely that you would want to be able to see some part of the document further down but whilst also still seeing the part on which you had just been working. The original model, then, is that no-one would read documents on screen but only from hard copy. It is interesting that software has been moving towards servicing screen reading, albeit rather slowly. Microsoft Powerpoint allows you to save a presentation as a slide show, in which case it opens for any recipient as for display, not for further editing. Microsoft Word has a reading mode, which displays screenfuls - not necessarily in the original layout - and in which your page down function works as you want. There is also a freeware Word Viewer available from Microsoft, intended for users without Microsoft Word installed. Again, since this is a reader and not an editor, it responds to page down requests by moving down a screenful. Oh, and try opening a read-only file with LibreOffice Writer: I think you'll find that it will now treat page down differently and move down (almost) a screenful. Should word processing and similar software provide an explicit reading mode for use in reading, not editing, documents? Possibly. Meanwhile, if you want something close to this behaviour in Writer, here's your workaround: just click the Edit File button in the Standard toolbar to toggle on this behaviour. I trust this helps. Brian Barker -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list
Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors
An interesting point. Perhaps there ought to be a mode switch between Next top of page and Proportional when using Page Up/Down keys. I can't remember the last time I used my Insert key to change its mode. Perhaps it is time to make Insert a mode switch for Delete, Home, End and Page Up/Down. After all, we've got Control, Alt and Win/Apple Whatever special keys. What's one more in the group. Alas, I digress On 2/15/2013 9:35 AM, Eric Beversluis wrote: Something I've never figured out--and seems true of LO/OO as well as M$ Word: When reading through a document, one hits 'PgDn', but one doesn't get a new page--it only scrolls down some seemingly arbitrary number of lines. One has to scan the new screen to see what one left off reading and one may only have gotten a half page of new reading for the effort. Maybe I'm spoiled by e-readers. But maybe, even after all these years, I haven't figured out how to do this correctly in a word processor. Thanks. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors
When I hit page down or up, it scrolls to the next page ;-) when I hit the up or down arrow key, it scrolls line by line ;-) On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:35 AM, Eric Beversluis ebe...@researchintegration.org wrote: Something I've never figured out--and seems true of LO/OO as well as M$ Word: When reading through a document, one hits 'PgDn', but one doesn't get a new page--it only scrolls down some seemingly arbitrary number of lines. One has to scan the new screen to see what one left off reading and one may only have gotten a half page of new reading for the effort. Maybe I'm spoiled by e-readers. But maybe, even after all these years, I haven't figured out how to do this correctly in a word processor. Thanks. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors
but the computer's page is different from the printed page ;-) BTW - Brian, I think your explanation was very good. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) Yes, the button probably should say Screen down instead of page down for most uses of the button and only say Page down for those rare cases where it really does mean a page. Regards from Tom :) PS blimey a short answer for once!! lol From: Brian Barker b.m.bar...@btinternet.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Friday, 15 February 2013, 15:15 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors At 09:35 15/02/2013 -0500, Eric Beversluis wrote: Something I've never figured out--and seems true of LO/OO as well as M$ Word: When reading through a document, one hits 'PgDn', but one doesn't get a new page--it only scrolls down some seemingly arbitrary number of lines. One has to scan the new screen to see what one left off reading and one may only have gotten a half page of new reading for the effort. Maybe I'm spoiled by e-readers. But maybe, even after all these years, I haven't figured out how to do this correctly in a word processor. I think you are missing the different functions of the two sorts of software. E-readers are what they say they are: readers. In other words, their users are using them to read documents. More than that, in general they will be reading the documents sequentially: when they get to the end of one page, they will next want to see the next page. And the only sense of page is as much as fills the screen of the display device. Word processors are quite different. In general, they are still fixated on printing the final document: the page size is the format of the eventual supposed printed version, not necessarily (and not usually) the size and format of the screen used for display. People usually choose settings that display less than a printed page of a document; if you were looking at such a screenful and then moved down a full page, you would unhelpfully have missed part of the text. But the bigger point is that a word processor is designed for editing, not reading. If you are editing at one point in a document and you now need to move down to a point currently off your screen image, it is not at all obvious - quite unlikely, in fact - that you would want to move to a following page. It is much more likely that you would want to be able to see some part of the document further down but whilst also still seeing the part on which you had just been working. The original model, then, is that no-one would read documents on screen but only from hard copy. It is interesting that software has been moving towards servicing screen reading, albeit rather slowly. Microsoft Powerpoint allows you to save a presentation as a slide show, in which case it opens for any recipient as for display, not for further editing. Microsoft Word has a reading mode, which displays screenfuls - not necessarily in the original layout - and in which your page down function works as you want. There is also a freeware Word Viewer available from Microsoft, intended for users without Microsoft Word installed. Again, since this is a reader and not an editor, it responds to page down requests by moving down a screenful. Oh, and try opening a read-only file with LibreOffice Writer: I think you'll find that it will now treat page down differently and move down (almost) a screenful. Should word processing and similar software provide an explicit reading mode for use in reading, not editing, documents? Possibly. Meanwhile, if you want something close to this behaviour in Writer, here's your workaround: just click the Edit File button in the Standard toolbar to toggle on this behaviour. I trust this helps. Brian Barker -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors
Whew, I've never touched that key; will alarms sirens go off when it's touched ;-) On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.ukwrote: Hi :) The button that worries me is the Windows key with the MS logo on it. Are the police likely to knock down my door now that i have painted over it with a rather bad copy of the Ubuntu logo? Also why does Ubuntu store sell a keyboard with the Windows logo on that key?!! Regards from Tom :) From: Eric Beversluis ebe...@researchintegration.org To: Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Brian Barker b.m.bar...@btinternet.com; users@global.libreoffice.org users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Friday, 15 February 2013, 15:50 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors But the issue is now what it's called. The problem is that it doesn't screen down consistently, giving a full new screen save for a consistent one- or two-line overlap at the top. On Fri, 2013-02-15 at 15:25 +, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Yes, the button probably should say Screen down instead of page down for most uses of the button and only say Page down for those rare cases where it really does mean a page. Regards from Tom :) PS blimey a short answer for once!! lol From: Brian Barker b.m.bar...@btinternet.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Friday, 15 February 2013, 15:15 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors At 09:35 15/02/2013 -0500, Eric Beversluis wrote: Something I've never figured out--and seems true of LO/OO as well as M$ Word: When reading through a document, one hits 'PgDn', but one doesn't get a new page--it only scrolls down some seemingly arbitrary number of lines. One has to scan the new screen to see what one left off reading and one may only have gotten a half page of new reading for the effort. Maybe I'm spoiled by e-readers. But maybe, even after all these years, I haven't figured out how to do this correctly in a word processor. I think you are missing the different functions of the two sorts of software. E-readers are what they say they are: readers. In other words, their users are using them to read documents. More than that, in general they will be reading the documents sequentially: when they get to the end of one page, they will next want to see the next page. And the only sense of page is as much as fills the screen of the display device. Word processors are quite different. In general, they are still fixated on printing the final document: the page size is the format of the eventual supposed printed version, not necessarily (and not usually) the size and format of the screen used for display. People usually choose settings that display less than a printed page of a document; if you were looking at such a screenful and then moved down a full page, you would unhelpfully have missed part of the text. But the bigger point is that a word processor is designed for editing, not reading. If you are editing at one point in a document and you now need to move down to a point currently off your screen image, it is not at all obvious - quite unlikely, in fact - that you would want to move to a following page. It is much more likely that you would want to be able to see some part of the document further down but whilst also still seeing the part on which you had just been working. The original model, then, is that no-one would read documents on screen but only from hard copy. It is interesting that software has been moving towards servicing screen reading, albeit rather slowly. Microsoft Powerpoint allows you to save a presentation as a slide show, in which case it opens for any recipient as for display, not for further editing. Microsoft Word has a reading mode, which displays screenfuls - not necessarily in the original layout - and in which your page down function works as you want. There is also a freeware Word Viewer available from Microsoft, intended for users without Microsoft Word installed. Again, since this is a reader and not an editor, it responds to page down requests by moving down a screenful. Oh, and try opening a read-only file with LibreOffice Writer: I think you'll find that it will now treat page down differently and move down (almost) a screenful. Should word processing and similar software provide an explicit reading mode for use in reading, not editing, documents? Possibly. Meanwhile, if you want something close to this behaviour in Writer, here's your workaround: just click the Edit File button in the Standard toolbar to toggle on this behaviour. I trust this helps. Brian Barker -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List
Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors
ooh, how I dislike that INS key ... I tend to hit that rather than the DEL key many times; then I'll start typing only to find I'm erasing ;-( Whoever decided to place that INS key must not have been thinking; doesn't any typist know to click on the space-bar to insert letters, ... ;-) Oh, right, this is a computer not a 'glorified typewriter' ;-) On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Paul D. Mirowsky p_mirow...@bentaxna.comwrote: An interesting point. Perhaps there ought to be a mode switch between Next top of page and Proportional when using Page Up/Down keys. I can't remember the last time I used my Insert key to change its mode. Perhaps it is time to make Insert a mode switch for Delete, Home, End and Page Up/Down. After all, we've got Control, Alt and Win/Apple Whatever special keys. What's one more in the group. Alas, I digress On 2/15/2013 9:35 AM, Eric Beversluis wrote: Something I've never figured out--and seems true of LO/OO as well as M$ Word: When reading through a document, one hits 'PgDn', but one doesn't get a new page--it only scrolls down some seemingly arbitrary number of lines. One has to scan the new screen to see what one left off reading and one may only have gotten a half page of new reading for the effort. Maybe I'm spoiled by e-readers. But maybe, even after all these years, I haven't figured out how to do this correctly in a word processor. Thanks. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors
Strange thing: I can not find an INS key on my MacBook. Its delete key acts like the back space key... --Dan On 02/15/2013 04:05 PM, anne-ology wrote: ooh, how I dislike that INS key ... I tend to hit that rather than the DEL key many times; then I'll start typing only to find I'm erasing ;-( Whoever decided to place that INS key must not have been thinking; doesn't any typist know to click on the space-bar to insert letters, ... ;-) Oh, right, this is a computer not a 'glorified typewriter' ;-) On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Paul D. Mirowsky p_mirow...@bentaxna.comwrote: An interesting point. Perhaps there ought to be a mode switch between Next top of page and Proportional when using Page Up/Down keys. I can't remember the last time I used my Insert key to change its mode. Perhaps it is time to make Insert a mode switch for Delete, Home, End and Page Up/Down. After all, we've got Control, Alt and Win/Apple Whatever special keys. What's one more in the group. Alas, I digress On 2/15/2013 9:35 AM, Eric Beversluis wrote: Something I've never figured out--and seems true of LO/OO as well as M$ Word: When reading through a document, one hits 'PgDn', but one doesn't get a new page--it only scrolls down some seemingly arbitrary number of lines. One has to scan the new screen to see what one left off reading and one may only have gotten a half page of new reading for the effort. Maybe I'm spoiled by e-readers. But maybe, even after all these years, I haven't figured out how to do this correctly in a word processor. Thanks. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors
On Fri, 2013-02-15 at 14:49 -0600, anne-ology wrote: but the computer's page is different from the printed page ;-) You're missing the point, which is that the scrolling is not consistent in presenting a new set of lines except for a one or two line overlap with the previous set of lines. Btw, the kind of behavior I like does seem to happen on gedit and Evolution. So I think it's something in the way the word processor is designed to interact with the PgDn button. BTW - Brian, I think your explanation was very good. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) Yes, the button probably should say Screen down instead of page down for most uses of the button and only say Page down for those rare cases where it really does mean a page. Regards from Tom :) PS blimey a short answer for once!! lol From: Brian Barker b.m.bar...@btinternet.com To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Friday, 15 February 2013, 15:15 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors At 09:35 15/02/2013 -0500, Eric Beversluis wrote: Something I've never figured out--and seems true of LO/OO as well as M$ Word: When reading through a document, one hits 'PgDn', but one doesn't get a new page--it only scrolls down some seemingly arbitrary number of lines. One has to scan the new screen to see what one left off reading and one may only have gotten a half page of new reading for the effort. Maybe I'm spoiled by e-readers. But maybe, even after all these years, I haven't figured out how to do this correctly in a word processor. I think you are missing the different functions of the two sorts of software. E-readers are what they say they are: readers. In other words, their users are using them to read documents. More than that, in general they will be reading the documents sequentially: when they get to the end of one page, they will next want to see the next page. And the only sense of page is as much as fills the screen of the display device. Word processors are quite different. In general, they are still fixated on printing the final document: the page size is the format of the eventual supposed printed version, not necessarily (and not usually) the size and format of the screen used for display. People usually choose settings that display less than a printed page of a document; if you were looking at such a screenful and then moved down a full page, you would unhelpfully have missed part of the text. But the bigger point is that a word processor is designed for editing, not reading. If you are editing at one point in a document and you now need to move down to a point currently off your screen image, it is not at all obvious - quite unlikely, in fact - that you would want to move to a following page. It is much more likely that you would want to be able to see some part of the document further down but whilst also still seeing the part on which you had just been working. The original model, then, is that no-one would read documents on screen but only from hard copy. It is interesting that software has been moving towards servicing screen reading, albeit rather slowly. Microsoft Powerpoint allows you to save a presentation as a slide show, in which case it opens for any recipient as for display, not for further editing. Microsoft Word has a reading mode, which displays screenfuls - not necessarily in the original layout - and in which your page down function works as you want. There is also a freeware Word Viewer available from Microsoft, intended for users without Microsoft Word installed. Again, since this is a reader and not an editor, it responds to page down requests by moving down a screenful. Oh, and try opening a read-only file with LibreOffice Writer: I think you'll find that it will now treat page down differently and move down (almost) a screenful. Should word processing and similar software provide an explicit reading mode for use in reading, not editing, documents? Possibly. Meanwhile, if you want something close to this behaviour in Writer, here's your workaround: just click the Edit File button in the Standard toolbar to toggle on this behaviour. I trust this helps. Brian Barker -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors - find next
Le 15/02/2013 22:59, bill a écrit : I am keeping the same thread as it is closely related. The one thing that I really don't like is that as soon as you do a search the page down button becomes continue search forward and the page up becomes continue search backwards. That is fine while you are searching, but how does one return it to page up and page down ? You'll notice that then the page buttons are changing colours: by default, they turn blue in search mode while they are black in scroll mode. To get back from the search mode to the scroll mode, just click the center button (whatitsname?) and select the page icon. HTH, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors - find next
Original Message
From: bill will...@techservsys.com
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 16:59:03 -0500
I am keeping the same thread as it is closely related. The one thing
that I really don't like is that as soon as you do a search the page
down button becomes continue search forward and the page up becomes
continue search backwards. That is fine while you are searching,
but how does one return it to page up and page down ?
--Bill Drescher william {at} TechServSys {dot} com
Which version of LO are you using? I would really like to have that
facility.
Maybe the 'Esc' key would return the paging key to normal operation.
Dave
--
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Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors - find next
Hi :) ???!?!!?!?? Ahh. You were talking about on-screen buttons? The ones under the vertical scroll bar? Middle one is called Navigation. I was talking about keyboard buttons. Now i'm not sure what anyone else was talking about. It's 4am though so i might still be dreaming or having a nightmare or something. I thought i understood but now i'm flummoxed. Regards form Tom :) From: Jean-Francois Nifenecker jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Friday, 15 February 2013, 22:24 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] page down in word processors - find next Le 15/02/2013 22:59, bill a écrit : I am keeping the same thread as it is closely related. The one thing that I really don't like is that as soon as you do a search the page down button becomes continue search forward and the page up becomes continue search backwards. That is fine while you are searching, but how does one return it to page up and page down ? You'll notice that then the page buttons are changing colours: by default, they turn blue in search mode while they are black in scroll mode. To get back from the search mode to the scroll mode, just click the center button (whatitsname?) and select the page icon. HTH, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
