Re: Push notification?

[Andy Seaborne]

I assumed you didn't want a coding solution.  It can be done - there is 
code in RDF Delta 1


jena-arq's DatasetGraphMonitor is right idea but does not go far enough. 
 Theer is only any point notifying at the commit point else any 
inspecting the data won't see the changes if that happens too quickly.


You could just wrap with DatasetGraphWrapper and intercept the commit.

rdf-patch has DatasetGraphChanges is more sophisticated.  It signal all 
operations, alloing the differences to be built up and then handled when 
commit happens.


It is currently used to send a patch to a URL.

But this fails have "Fuseki push" - some assembly required.

Andy


On 10/08/18 16:52, Claude Warren wrote:

I was actualy thinking of putting a message on a queue so that anyone
listening could pick it up.  Most of our infrastructure is based on push
rather than pull.  Particularly when our data sources are in a more secure
zone.  We only want to connect from the most secure zone to the lesser
secured zone not visa-versa  if possible.  A push would make much of this
easier.

worst case I can create a poller that does the push but I suppose I was
looking for a more elegant solution.

Claude

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:28 PM, Andy Seaborne  wrote:


General comment about Fuseki (or any server really):

Having server track the clients so it can initiate sending is a real pain
to do: clients go away, client crash without signing off, clients get
moved, clients go slow, etc etc.

Having the client poll the server may seem like excessive work but the
reality is that many systems are built that way underneath for all those
client reasons.

The trick is to make the "ping" cheap.

For RDF, keep triple with the tiemstamp of last change and get it each
time.

Or to put it another way, do Last-Modified or ETags for the data.

 Andy



On 09/08/18 17:29, Nouwt, B. (Barry) wrote:


Hi Claude, another hack that might work (but is probably a bit devious),
is using a GenericRuleReasoner rule instead of a ASK query, like:

[myAskRule: (?some pre:pattern bla:Eek) (?some eek:prop
"1234"^^xsd:integer) (...) -> print("The condition is TRUE!!!")
customBuiltinThatNotifies(?some, "s...@eek.org") ]

Note that you would need to create a custom 'notification' Builtin that
contains the actual notification logic.

Regards, Barry

-Original Message-
From: ajs6f 
Sent: donderdag 9 augustus 2018 16:59
To: users@jena.apache.org
Subject: Re: Push notification?

Hey, Claude--

Is it a particular ASK query or just any time any ASK query returns
successfully? I don't know enough about ARQ to really answer your question,
but a hack might be to see if there is an exact pattern of calls to find()
that occur for that ASK and only that ASK on the underlying DatasetGraph
and use DatasetGraphWrapper to intercept and fire your notifications. I'm
guessing there's a much cleaner better way to do that at ARQ, which will
actually know about ASK queries, and I'm looking forward to someone who
knows more than I telling us what that is. :grin:

ajs6f

On Aug 9, 2018, at 10:39 AM, Claude Warren  wrote:


Does anyone have a way to have Jena/Fuseki perform push notifications?
I am looking for a mechanism whereby I can create an ASK query and be
notified when it succeeds.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

--
I like: Like Like - The likeliest place on the web
<http://like-like.xenei.com>
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/claudewarren



This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you
are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you
are requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no
liability for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use
it and for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the
electronic transmission of messages.

Re: Push notification?

[DHa]

I've just prototyped a similar solution whereby the query is produced to a 
Kafka topic and the results are produced to another Kafka topic. The queries 
are process heavy and result light. Some of the results require post processing 
so this can be handled before the clients get the data.
We're running Kafka in k8s with Zookeeper and a prototype of Mosaic to handle 
concurrent writes.
I'm aiming to release a new version of Mosaic based on this work with docker 
and k8s setup.
Dick
 Original message From: Claude Warren  Date: 
10/08/2018  16:52  (GMT+00:00) To: users@jena.apache.org Subject: Re: Push 
notification? 
I was actualy thinking of putting a message on a queue so that anyone
listening could pick it up.  Most of our infrastructure is based on push
rather than pull.  Particularly when our data sources are in a more secure
zone.  We only want to connect from the most secure zone to the lesser
secured zone not visa-versa  if possible.  A push would make much of this
easier.

worst case I can create a poller that does the push but I suppose I was
looking for a more elegant solution.

Claude

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:28 PM, Andy Seaborne  wrote:

> General comment about Fuseki (or any server really):
>
> Having server track the clients so it can initiate sending is a real pain
> to do: clients go away, client crash without signing off, clients get
> moved, clients go slow, etc etc.
>
> Having the client poll the server may seem like excessive work but the
> reality is that many systems are built that way underneath for all those
> client reasons.
>
> The trick is to make the "ping" cheap.
>
> For RDF, keep triple with the tiemstamp of last change and get it each
> time.
>
> Or to put it another way, do Last-Modified or ETags for the data.
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> On 09/08/18 17:29, Nouwt, B. (Barry) wrote:
>
>> Hi Claude, another hack that might work (but is probably a bit devious),
>> is using a GenericRuleReasoner rule instead of a ASK query, like:
>>
>> [myAskRule: (?some pre:pattern bla:Eek) (?some eek:prop
>> "1234"^^xsd:integer) (...) -> print("The condition is TRUE!!!")
>> customBuiltinThatNotifies(?some, "s...@eek.org") ]
>>
>> Note that you would need to create a custom 'notification' Builtin that
>> contains the actual notification logic.
>>
>> Regards, Barry
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: ajs6f 
>> Sent: donderdag 9 augustus 2018 16:59
>> To: users@jena.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Push notification?
>>
>> Hey, Claude--
>>
>> Is it a particular ASK query or just any time any ASK query returns
>> successfully? I don't know enough about ARQ to really answer your question,
>> but a hack might be to see if there is an exact pattern of calls to find()
>> that occur for that ASK and only that ASK on the underlying DatasetGraph
>> and use DatasetGraphWrapper to intercept and fire your notifications. I'm
>> guessing there's a much cleaner better way to do that at ARQ, which will
>> actually know about ASK queries, and I'm looking forward to someone who
>> knows more than I telling us what that is. :grin:
>>
>> ajs6f
>>
>> On Aug 9, 2018, at 10:39 AM, Claude Warren  wrote:
>>>
>>> Does anyone have a way to have Jena/Fuseki perform push notifications?
>>> I am looking for a mechanism whereby I can create an ASK query and be
>>> notified when it succeeds.
>>>
>>> Any ideas would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> --
>>> I like: Like Like - The likeliest place on the web
>>> <http://like-like.xenei.com>
>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/claudewarren
>>>
>>
>> This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you
>> are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you
>> are requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no
>> liability for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use
>> it and for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the
>> electronic transmission of messages.
>>
>>


-- 
I like: Like Like - The likeliest place on the web
<http://like-like.xenei.com>
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/claudewarren

Re: Push notification?

[Claude Warren]

I was actualy thinking of putting a message on a queue so that anyone
listening could pick it up.  Most of our infrastructure is based on push
rather than pull.  Particularly when our data sources are in a more secure
zone.  We only want to connect from the most secure zone to the lesser
secured zone not visa-versa  if possible.  A push would make much of this
easier.

worst case I can create a poller that does the push but I suppose I was
looking for a more elegant solution.

Claude

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:28 PM, Andy Seaborne  wrote:

> General comment about Fuseki (or any server really):
>
> Having server track the clients so it can initiate sending is a real pain
> to do: clients go away, client crash without signing off, clients get
> moved, clients go slow, etc etc.
>
> Having the client poll the server may seem like excessive work but the
> reality is that many systems are built that way underneath for all those
> client reasons.
>
> The trick is to make the "ping" cheap.
>
> For RDF, keep triple with the tiemstamp of last change and get it each
> time.
>
> Or to put it another way, do Last-Modified or ETags for the data.
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> On 09/08/18 17:29, Nouwt, B. (Barry) wrote:
>
>> Hi Claude, another hack that might work (but is probably a bit devious),
>> is using a GenericRuleReasoner rule instead of a ASK query, like:
>>
>> [myAskRule: (?some pre:pattern bla:Eek) (?some eek:prop
>> "1234"^^xsd:integer) (...) -> print("The condition is TRUE!!!")
>> customBuiltinThatNotifies(?some, "s...@eek.org") ]
>>
>> Note that you would need to create a custom 'notification' Builtin that
>> contains the actual notification logic.
>>
>> Regards, Barry
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: ajs6f 
>> Sent: donderdag 9 augustus 2018 16:59
>> To: users@jena.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Push notification?
>>
>> Hey, Claude--
>>
>> Is it a particular ASK query or just any time any ASK query returns
>> successfully? I don't know enough about ARQ to really answer your question,
>> but a hack might be to see if there is an exact pattern of calls to find()
>> that occur for that ASK and only that ASK on the underlying DatasetGraph
>> and use DatasetGraphWrapper to intercept and fire your notifications. I'm
>> guessing there's a much cleaner better way to do that at ARQ, which will
>> actually know about ASK queries, and I'm looking forward to someone who
>> knows more than I telling us what that is. :grin:
>>
>> ajs6f
>>
>> On Aug 9, 2018, at 10:39 AM, Claude Warren  wrote:
>>>
>>> Does anyone have a way to have Jena/Fuseki perform push notifications?
>>> I am looking for a mechanism whereby I can create an ASK query and be
>>> notified when it succeeds.
>>>
>>> Any ideas would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> --
>>> I like: Like Like - The likeliest place on the web
>>> <http://like-like.xenei.com>
>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/claudewarren
>>>
>>
>> This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you
>> are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you
>> are requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no
>> liability for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use
>> it and for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the
>> electronic transmission of messages.
>>
>>


-- 
I like: Like Like - The likeliest place on the web
<http://like-like.xenei.com>
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/claudewarren

Re: Push notification?

[Andy Seaborne]

General comment about Fuseki (or any server really):

Having server track the clients so it can initiate sending is a real 
pain to do: clients go away, client crash without signing off, clients 
get moved, clients go slow, etc etc.


Having the client poll the server may seem like excessive work but the 
reality is that many systems are built that way underneath for all those 
client reasons.


The trick is to make the "ping" cheap.

For RDF, keep triple with the tiemstamp of last change and get it each time.

Or to put it another way, do Last-Modified or ETags for the data.

Andy


On 09/08/18 17:29, Nouwt, B. (Barry) wrote:

Hi Claude, another hack that might work (but is probably a bit devious), is 
using a GenericRuleReasoner rule instead of a ASK query, like:

[myAskRule: (?some pre:pattern bla:Eek) (?some eek:prop "1234"^^xsd:integer) (...) -> 
print("The condition is TRUE!!!") customBuiltinThatNotifies(?some, "s...@eek.org") ]

Note that you would need to create a custom 'notification' Builtin that 
contains the actual notification logic.

Regards, Barry

-Original Message-
From: ajs6f 
Sent: donderdag 9 augustus 2018 16:59
To: users@jena.apache.org
Subject: Re: Push notification?

Hey, Claude--

Is it a particular ASK query or just any time any ASK query returns 
successfully? I don't know enough about ARQ to really answer your question, but 
a hack might be to see if there is an exact pattern of calls to find() that 
occur for that ASK and only that ASK on the underlying DatasetGraph and use 
DatasetGraphWrapper to intercept and fire your notifications. I'm guessing 
there's a much cleaner better way to do that at ARQ, which will actually know 
about ASK queries, and I'm looking forward to someone who knows more than I 
telling us what that is. :grin:

ajs6f


On Aug 9, 2018, at 10:39 AM, Claude Warren  wrote:

Does anyone have a way to have Jena/Fuseki perform push notifications?
I am looking for a mechanism whereby I can create an ASK query and be
notified when it succeeds.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

--
I like: Like Like - The likeliest place on the web
<http://like-like.xenei.com>
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/claudewarren


This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are 
not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are 
requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no liability 
for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use it and for 
damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the electronic 
transmission of messages.

RE: Push notification?

[Nouwt, B. (Barry)]

Hi Claude, another hack that might work (but is probably a bit devious), is 
using a GenericRuleReasoner rule instead of a ASK query, like:

[myAskRule: (?some pre:pattern bla:Eek) (?some eek:prop "1234"^^xsd:integer) 
(...) -> print("The condition is TRUE!!!") customBuiltinThatNotifies(?some, 
"s...@eek.org") ]

Note that you would need to create a custom 'notification' Builtin that 
contains the actual notification logic.

Regards, Barry

-Original Message-
From: ajs6f  
Sent: donderdag 9 augustus 2018 16:59
To: users@jena.apache.org
Subject: Re: Push notification?

Hey, Claude--

Is it a particular ASK query or just any time any ASK query returns 
successfully? I don't know enough about ARQ to really answer your question, but 
a hack might be to see if there is an exact pattern of calls to find() that 
occur for that ASK and only that ASK on the underlying DatasetGraph and use 
DatasetGraphWrapper to intercept and fire your notifications. I'm guessing 
there's a much cleaner better way to do that at ARQ, which will actually know 
about ASK queries, and I'm looking forward to someone who knows more than I 
telling us what that is. :grin:

ajs6f

> On Aug 9, 2018, at 10:39 AM, Claude Warren  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have a way to have Jena/Fuseki perform push notifications?  
> I am looking for a mechanism whereby I can create an ASK query and be 
> notified when it succeeds.
> 
> Any ideas would be appreciated.
> 
> --
> I like: Like Like - The likeliest place on the web 
> <http://like-like.xenei.com>
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/claudewarren

This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are 
not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are 
requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no liability 
for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use it and for 
damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the electronic 
transmission of messages.

Re: Push notification?

[ajs6f]

Hey, Claude--

Is it a particular ASK query or just any time any ASK query returns 
successfully? I don't know enough about ARQ to really answer your question, but 
a hack might be to see if there is an exact pattern of calls to find() that 
occur for that ASK and only that ASK on the underlying DatasetGraph and use 
DatasetGraphWrapper to intercept and fire your notifications. I'm guessing 
there's a much cleaner better way to do that at ARQ, which will actually know 
about ASK queries, and I'm looking forward to someone who knows more than I 
telling us what that is. :grin:

ajs6f

> On Aug 9, 2018, at 10:39 AM, Claude Warren  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have a way to have Jena/Fuseki perform push notifications?  I
> am looking for a mechanism whereby I can create an ASK query and be
> notified when it succeeds.
> 
> Any ideas would be appreciated.
> 
> -- 
> I like: Like Like - The likeliest place on the web
> 
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/claudewarren