Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
Le 12-07-10 05:23, Wolfgang Hennerbichler a écrit : IMHO the only good imap client is either mutt or apple mail. apple mail lacks extensions, other than that this is THE desktop-client. if only it ran on linux... :) Well. You could try GNUMail, which looks a lot like what Apple Mail looked like 25 years ago, without support for the addressbook (or minimal), nor for proper HTML display, not to mention calendaring. Moreover, it's not well maintained as its developer has been MIA for 6 years at least. W. ps: this is a joke, as GNUmail, besides the above points, was originally written by Ludovic Marcotte when he was still young and had short hair. -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
* Wolfgang Sourdeau users@sogo.nu: Le 12-07-10 05:23, Wolfgang Hennerbichler a écrit : IMHO the only good imap client is either mutt or apple mail. apple mail lacks extensions, other than that this is THE desktop-client. if only it ran on linux... :) Well. You could try GNUMail, which looks a lot like what Apple Mail looked like 25 years ago, without support for the addressbook (or minimal), nor for proper HTML display, not to mention calendaring. Moreover, it's not well maintained as its developer has been MIA for 6 years at least. I wish mutt could display calendar and addressbook date from SOGo. :) W. ps: this is a joke, as GNUmail, besides the above points, was originally written by Ludovic Marcotte when he was still young and had short hair. What does Ludo look like today? :) p@rick -- state of mind () http://www.state-of-mind.de Franziskanerstraße 15 Telefon +49 89 3090 4664 81669 München Telefax +49 89 3090 4666 Amtsgericht MünchenPartnerschaftsregister PR 563 -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
Alexandre Boyer Assistance technique Technical Support T : 514-527-3232 x 2 F : 514-527-1201 a...@zerospam.ca On 12-07-13 04:27 PM, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote: * Wolfgang Sourdeau users@sogo.nu: Le 12-07-10 05:23, Wolfgang Hennerbichler a écrit : IMHO the only good imap client is either mutt or apple mail. apple mail lacks extensions, other than that this is THE desktop-client. if only it ran on linux... :) Well. You could try GNUMail, which looks a lot like what Apple Mail looked like 25 years ago, without support for the addressbook (or minimal), nor for proper HTML display, not to mention calendaring. Moreover, it's not well maintained as its developer has been MIA for 6 years at least. I wish mutt could display calendar and addressbook date from SOGo. :) So do I!!! W. ps: this is a joke, as GNUmail, besides the above points, was originally written by Ludovic Marcotte when he was still young and had short hair. What does Ludo look like today? :) p@rick
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
On Jul 13, 2012, at 22:27 , Patrick Ben Koetter wrote: * Wolfgang Sourdeau users@sogo.nu: Le 12-07-10 05:23, Wolfgang Hennerbichler a écrit : IMHO the only good imap client is either mutt or apple mail. apple mail lacks extensions, other than that this is THE desktop-client. if only it ran on linux... :) Well. You could try GNUMail, which looks a lot like what Apple Mail looked like 25 years ago, without support for the addressbook (or minimal), nor for proper HTML display, not to mention calendaring. Moreover, it's not well maintained as its developer has been MIA for 6 years at least. I wish mutt could display calendar and addressbook date from SOGo. :) I wrote a crappy hack for addressbook-data for davical, might be easy to adapt for sogo, too: http://www.wogri.at/davical-addressbook.314.0.html but well, this is somewhat far from a good solution :) -- http://www.wogri.com -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
Jeroen, Jeroen Dekkers schrieb (08.07.2012 16:22 Uhr): At Sat, 7 Jul 2012 21:57:06 +0200, Patrick Ben Koetter wrote: My problem with them dropping Thunderbird is, I don't see some important problems solved that should be solved before everyone uses webclients. Webclients assume you are always online, but - at least in Germany - being always online still is more of a marketing promise than a usable reality. I don't see how I would always have enough bandwidth to download everything required to run a fat web client that does mail. Neither do I see my browser being able to do what a mail client can do in offline mode. How would you use your mail/groupware client when you are offline in a browser? Tell a sales person he will have to use a webclient that does mail to download contract papers while he's on the road somewhere in the outback… So while there are still a few small challenges, it's already posssible to create an offline HTML5 e-mail client today. So, your point is that is no problem Thunderbird might go away and SOGo should center on the web interface, right? Marc -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
Anthony, Anthony Milan schrieb (09.07.2012 12:19 Uhr): Le 07/07/2012 21:57, Patrick Ben Koetter a écrit : On 07/07/2012 06:55 PM, Sven Schwedas wrote: I use few extensions to overcome these lacks: - SIEVE and managesieve support http://sieve.mozdev.org/ - IMAP ACL support including a GUI to manage ACLs https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/thunderbird/addon/imap-acl-extension/ - a protocol independent addressbook - CardDAV support for addressbook SOGo ;) - read/write LDAP support for addressbook incl. a cache for offline usage - notes https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/thunderbird/addon/quickfox-notes/ - a reasonable way to set/entforce company wide policies for business use - enhanced autoconfiguration http://blog.deanandadie.net/2010/06/easy-thunderbird-account-management-using-mcd/ http://blog.deanandadie.net/2010/05/manufacturing-user-preferences-for-mcd/ So, your point is that Thunderbird (with the mentiones extensions) is feature complete for the rest of known times and that it is not a problem Mozilla will not develope it any further than what we have today, right? Marc -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
Le 10/07/2012 09:07, Marc Patermann a écrit : So, your point is that Thunderbird (with the mentiones extensions) is feature complete for the rest of known times and that it is not a problem Mozilla will not develope it any further than what we have today, right? In my opinion, feature complete is no nonsense. Thunderbird is an open source project with or without the Mozilla foundation. I agree with a foundation or a company, it could be more comfortable... if we can't contribute. Thunderbird includes extension mechanism, it could be a solution for feature requests. Regards, -- Anthony Milan -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
They should incubate it into the Apache foundation. Then it would become a major product. Am 10.07.2012 09:29, schrieb Anthony Milan: Le 10/07/2012 09:07, Marc Patermann a écrit : So, your point is that Thunderbird (with the mentiones extensions) is feature complete for the rest of known times and that it is not a problem Mozilla will not develope it any further than what we have today, right? In my opinion, feature complete is no nonsense. Thunderbird is an open source project with or without the Mozilla foundation. I agree with a foundation or a company, it could be more comfortable... if we can't contribute. Thunderbird includes extension mechanism, it could be a solution for feature requests. Regards, -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
* Buddy Butterfly buddy.butter...@web.de: They should incubate it into the Apache foundation. Then it would become a major product. TB is a buggy client with blown up code depending heavily on firefox. It should be rewritten. p@rick -- state of mind () Digitale Kommunikation http://www.state-of-mind.de Franziskanerstraße 15 Telefon +49 89 3090 4664 81669 München Telefax +49 89 3090 4666 Amtsgericht MünchenPartnerschaftsregister PR 563 -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
Am 10. Juli 2012 09:50 CEST, Patrick Ben Koetter p...@state-of-mind.de schrieb: * Buddy Butterfly buddy.butter...@web.de: TB is a buggy client with blown up code depending heavily on firefox. Thats right, but I love it - the extensions are the best feature, I don't know any other client with such a capability. And: a webbased client is no alternative for a desktop based application - not as fast, has not the security for your mails and so on (yes, I archive my IMAP-Mails locally) -- Regards, Martin Rabl Dipl.-Informatiker (FH) -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
* Martin Rabl users@sogo.nu: Am 10. Juli 2012 09:50 CEST, Patrick Ben Koetter p...@state-of-mind.de schrieb: * Buddy Butterfly buddy.butter...@web.de: TB is a buggy client with blown up code depending heavily on firefox. Thats right, but I love it - the extensions are the best feature, I don't know any other client with such a capability. And: a webbased client is no ACK. Just think how a non-buggy mail client with addons would rock. ;) alternative for a desktop based application - not as fast, has not the security for your mails and so on (yes, I archive my IMAP-Mails locally) Same here. I don't see how a webmail client will replace my desktop client in the near future. p@rick -- state of mind () Digitale Kommunikation http://www.state-of-mind.de Franziskanerstraße 15 Telefon +49 89 3090 4664 81669 München Telefax +49 89 3090 4666 Amtsgericht MünchenPartnerschaftsregister PR 563 -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
ACK in all pionts. That is why I would like to see it in Apache. They would rewrite the code step by step, I guess. Am 10.07.2012 10:15, schrieb Patrick Ben Koetter: * Martin Rabl users@sogo.nu: Am 10. Juli 2012 09:50 CEST, Patrick Ben Koetter p...@state-of-mind.de schrieb: * Buddy Butterfly buddy.butter...@web.de: TB is a buggy client with blown up code depending heavily on firefox. Thats right, but I love it - the extensions are the best feature, I don't know any other client with such a capability. And: a webbased client is no ACK. Just think how a non-buggy mail client with addons would rock. ;) alternative for a desktop based application - not as fast, has not the security for your mails and so on (yes, I archive my IMAP-Mails locally) Same here. I don't see how a webmail client will replace my desktop client in the near future. p@rick -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
Am 10. Juli 2012 10:15 CEST, Patrick Ben Koetter p...@state-of-mind.de schrieb: ACK. Just think how a non-buggy mail client with addons would rock. ;) (* smile *) -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
Am 10.07.2012 10:58, schrieb Martin Rabl: Am 10. Juli 2012 10:15 CEST, Patrick Ben Koetterp...@state-of-mind.de schrieb: ACK. Just think how a non-buggy mail client with addons would rock. ;) (* smile *) Hey, TB is not that bad... Soon (OpenChange) you will have the option to use another buggy client with SOGo, but you will have the advantage to pay for the client ;) André -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
Soon ... what for client you mean ... hm ... is there any other Mailclient than TB ... ? Are you thinking of Pegasus? Runs only on Windows ... Am 10. Juli 2012 11:06 CEST, André Schild an...@schild.ws schrieb: Am 10.07.2012 10:58, schrieb Martin Rabl: Am 10. Juli 2012 10:15 CEST, Patrick Ben Koetterp...@state-of-mind.de schrieb: ACK. Just think how a non-buggy mail client with addons would rock. ;) (* smile *) Hey, TB is not that bad... Soon (OpenChange) you will have the option to use another buggy client with SOGo, but you will have the advantage to pay for the client ;) André -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists -- Regards, Martin Rabl Dipl.-Informatiker (FH) -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
Am 10.07.2012 11:10, schrieb Martin Rabl: Soon ... what for client you mean ... Look out for the MS product :) hm ... is there any other Mailclient than TB ... ? They sell it as mailclient, but not realy.. Are you thinking of Pegasus? Runs only on Windows ... Yeaa, was a long time user of pegasus myself, but imap support was not that good (At that time) And there was also mullberry, but I myself could never get used to it André -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
all of them will convert to sup-mail ;-) Am 10.07.2012 11:10, schrieb Martin Rabl: Soon ... what for client you mean ... hm ... is there any other Mailclient than TB ... ? Are you thinking of Pegasus? Runs only on Windows ... Am 10. Juli 2012 11:06 CEST, André Schild an...@schild.ws schrieb: Am 10.07.2012 10:58, schrieb Martin Rabl: Am 10. Juli 2012 10:15 CEST, Patrick Ben Koetterp...@state-of-mind.de schrieb: ACK. Just think how a non-buggy mail client with addons would rock. ;) (* smile *) Hey, TB is not that bad... Soon (OpenChange) you will have the option to use another buggy client with SOGo, but you will have the advantage to pay for the client ;) André -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists -- Regards, Martin Rabl Dipl.-Informatiker (FH) -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
On 07/10/2012 11:15 AM, André Schild wrote: Am 10.07.2012 11:10, schrieb Martin Rabl: Soon ... what for client you mean ... Look out for the MS product :) hm ... is there any other Mailclient than TB ... ? They sell it as mailclient, but not realy.. Are you thinking of Pegasus? Runs only on Windows ... Yeaa, was a long time user of pegasus myself, but imap support was not that good (At that time) And there was also mullberry, but I myself could never get used to it IMHO the only good imap client is either mutt or apple mail. apple mail lacks extensions, other than that this is THE desktop-client. if only it ran on linux... :) André -- http://www.wogri.com -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
Am 10. Juli 2012 11:15 CEST, André Schild an...@schild.ws schrieb: Am 10.07.2012 11:10, schrieb Martin Rabl: Soon ... what for client you mean ... Look out for the MS product :) hm ... is there any other Mailclient than TB ... ? They sell it as mailclient, but not realy.. (* Clap on head *) THAT you mean ... never knew that should be a Mailclient ... maybe, when its grown. Are you thinking of Pegasus? Runs only on Windows ... was a long time user of pegasus myself, but imap support was not that good (At that time) Me to. But my switch to Mac a decade before (NeXT ... Unix rules!) made me to switch to Apple Mail. What for a decent ... -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Martin Rabl Dipl.-Informatiker (FH) -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
Am 10. Juli 2012 11:23 CEST, Wolfgang Hennerbichler wo...@wogri.com schrieb: IMHO the only good imap client is either mutt or apple mail. apple mail lacks extensions, other than that this is THE desktop-client. if only it ran on linux... :) I switched from Apple Mail to TB when I switched from POP to IMAP because of the IMHO very bad IMAP capabilities of Apple Mail. The benefit was the SOGo-Plugin ... -- Regards, Martin Rabl Dipl.-Informatiker (FH) -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
On 07/10/2012 12:16 PM, Martin Rabl wrote: Am 10. Juli 2012 11:23 CEST, Wolfgang Hennerbichler wo...@wogri.com schrieb: IMHO the only good imap client is either mutt or apple mail. apple mail lacks extensions, other than that this is THE desktop-client. if only it ran on linux... :) I switched from Apple Mail to TB when I switched from POP to IMAP because of the IMHO very bad IMAP capabilities of Apple Mail. The benefit was the SOGo-Plugin ... I can't confirm that, using apple mail with medium-sized mailboxes (~50k messages) for years without troubles. Not that TB would be bad in that respect, but searching in apple mail is a pleasure compared to TB... -- http://www.wogri.com -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
Urgently needed is rfc5465 aka IMAP notify. This is to reduce resource consumption with TCP connectiosn when using imap folders heavily. Am 10.07.2012 11:08, schrieb Martin Rabl: Am 10. Juli 2012 10:30 CEST, Buddy Butterfly buddy.butter...@web.de schrieb: ACK in all pionts. That is why I would like to see it in Apache. They would rewrite the code step by step, I guess. On the other hand: which further functionality you need for a simple but add-on-extensible Mailclient? TB is IMHO mostly ready developed (right, Patrick, the code is a ... sammelsurium [bavarian word]), all other things are coming from add-ons like the SOGo plugins. At this point, it's ok for me, when Mozilla hosts the client and its add ons and provides bugfixes. I think, hoping, that Apache will rewrite the code, when TB is an Apache Project, is dreaming. They won't do it. What you need for that, is a community of developers which have experiences in XUL, JS, XPCOM ... I don't see enough ... -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
Am 10. Juli 2012 12:28 CEST, Wolfgang Hennerbichler wo...@wogri.com schrieb: respect, but searching in apple mail is a pleasure compared to TB... Point for you! ;-) -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Martin Rabl Dipl.-Informatiker (FH) -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
At Tue, 10 Jul 2012 10:30:24 +0200, Buddy Butterfly wrote: ACK in all pionts. That is why I would like to see it in Apache. They would rewrite the code step by step, I guess. No, they would do a total rewrite to fit their arcane rules. First of all it would force everybody to use a mediocore version control system (subversion), because that's the Apache Way. Then they would remove all dependencies on stuff that's not under the Apache license. I don't know how they are going to do that on Linux, because both gtk and qt are under the LGPL. Or maybe they would just drop Thunderbird for Linux? If the community has to take it over, just put it on github. No need to put in under a foundation that only adds bureaucratic procedures and hasn't catched up with this decade yet. Kind regards, Jeroen Dekkers -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
Am 10.07.2012 um 11:23 schrieb Wolfgang Hennerbichler: IMHO the only good imap client is either mutt or apple mail. apple mail lacks extensions, other than that this is THE desktop-client. if only it ran on linux... :) +1000 :) -Christian Rößner --- Roessner-Network-Solutions Bachelor of Science Informatik Nahrungsberg 81, 35390 Gießen F: +49 641 5879091, M: +49 176 93118939 USt-IdNr.: DE225643613 http://www.roessner-network-solutions.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
Le 07/07/2012 21:57, Patrick Ben Koetter a écrit : On 07/07/2012 06:55 PM, Sven Schwedas wrote: Since Mozilla is now trying even harder to kill Thunderbird ( https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Proposal:_New_Release_and_Governance_Model ), are there any alternative mail clients that are platform independent and support Cal-/CardDAV? What do you mean? That article only reads to me that Mozilla isn't itself interested in making enhancements to Thunderbird, but will continue to maintain it for security updates and community contributions. This sounds fine to me because, besides LDAP editing directly in Thunderbird, and a revamped address book (which is in the works) what else does it even need? Things that come to mind: Hi, I use few extensions to overcome these lacks: - SIEVE and managesieve support http://sieve.mozdev.org/ - IMAP ACL support including a GUI to manage ACLs https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/thunderbird/addon/imap-acl-extension/ - a protocol independent addressbook - CardDAV support for addressbook SOGo ;) - read/write LDAP support for addressbook incl. a cache for offline usage - notes https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/thunderbird/addon/quickfox-notes/ - a reasonable way to set/entforce company wide policies for business use - enhanced autoconfiguration http://blog.deanandadie.net/2010/06/easy-thunderbird-account-management-using-mcd/ http://blog.deanandadie.net/2010/05/manufacturing-user-preferences-for-mcd/ Regards, -- Anthony Milan -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
On 07/07/2012 06:55 PM, Sven Schwedas wrote: Since Mozilla is now trying even harder to kill Thunderbird ( https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Proposal:_New_Release_and_Governance_Model ), are there any alternative mail clients that are platform independent and support Cal-/CardDAV? What do you mean? That article only reads to me that Mozilla isn't itself interested in making enhancements to Thunderbird, but will continue to maintain it for security updates and community contributions. This sounds fine to me because, besides LDAP editing directly in Thunderbird, and a revamped address book (which is in the works) what else does it even need? It sounds to me like there's no cause for alarm. Sincerely, Sean M. Pappalardo Sr. Networks Engineer Renegade Technologies spappala...@renegadetech.com http://www.renegadetech.com attachment: spappalardo.vcf smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
* Sean M. Pappalardo users@sogo.nu: On 07/07/2012 06:55 PM, Sven Schwedas wrote: Since Mozilla is now trying even harder to kill Thunderbird ( https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Proposal:_New_Release_and_Governance_Model ), are there any alternative mail clients that are platform independent and support Cal-/CardDAV? What do you mean? That article only reads to me that Mozilla isn't itself interested in making enhancements to Thunderbird, but will continue to maintain it for security updates and community contributions. This sounds fine to me because, besides LDAP editing directly in Thunderbird, and a revamped address book (which is in the works) what else does it even need? Things that come to mind: - SIEVE and managesieve support - IMAP ACL support including a GUI to manage ACLs - a protocol independent addressbook - CardDAV support for addressbook - read/write LDAP support for addressbook incl. a cache for offline usage - notes - a reasonable way to set/entforce company wide policies for business use - enhanced autoconfiguration It sounds to me like there's no cause for alarm. Everyone is moving to the cloud. Applications become web-applications. People like web applications because they don't need to configure them. They only need to login. Browsers are becoming universal clients executing any kind of application you can think of. Look at what the recent years added to browsers: Offline caches, HTML 5, ability to run C-code applications within the browser. The days of many desktop clients are counted. It makes sense for Mozilla to drop the desktop client Thunderbird. It's time they moved on. Mozilla is the OSS Desktop Client Company per se and desktop clients are a dying species. That probably explains why they gather all ressources around Firefox OS. My problem with them dropping Thunderbird is, I don't see some important problems solved that should be solved before everyone uses webclients. Webclients assume you are always online, but - at least in Germany - being always online still is more of a marketing promise than a usable reality. I don't see how I would always have enough bandwidth to download everything required to run a fat web client that does mail. Neither do I see my browser being able to do what a mail client can do in offline mode. How would you use your mail/groupware client when you are offline in a browser? Tell a sales person he will have to use a webclient that does mail to download contract papers while he's on the road somewhere in the outback… But then - I was told so - that's not a problem for Mozilla because they never promised Thunderbird would be a good business mail client. Mozillas target group for Thunderbird was/is private users. So by their standards they aren't breaking a promise. Problem is: Thunderbird seems to be the only acceptable mail client that runs on all desktop platforms. When it will be gone costs will increase if you need to provide a groupware/mail client on more than one platform. The big question for me is: Thunderbird seems to play a major role in SOGos client model. What will SOGo/inverse do? Fork Thunderbird and maintain a dedicated SOGo client? Forget Thunderbird and focus on the web user interface? p@rick -- state of mind () http://www.state-of-mind.de Franziskanerstraße 15 Telefon +49 89 3090 4664 81669 München Telefax +49 89 3090 4666 Amtsgericht MünchenPartnerschaftsregister PR 563 smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
R: Re: [SOGo] Alternatives to Thunderbird?
Cloud is something temporary. When people will understand how important is to have control on your data they will quickly forget about this crap innovation. Patrick Ben Koetter p...@state-of-mind.de ha scritto: * Sean M. Pappalardo users@sogo.nu: On 07/07/2012 06:55 PM, Sven Schwedas wrote: Since Mozilla is now trying even harder to kill Thunderbird ( https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Proposal:_New_Release_and_Governance_Model ), are there any alternative mail clients that are platform independent and support Cal-/CardDAV? What do you mean? That article only reads to me that Mozilla isn't itself interested in making enhancements to Thunderbird, but will continue to maintain it for security updates and community contributions. This sounds fine to me because, besides LDAP editing directly in Thunderbird, and a revamped address book (which is in the works) what else does it even need? Things that come to mind: - SIEVE and managesieve support - IMAP ACL support including a GUI to manage ACLs - a protocol independent addressbook - CardDAV support for addressbook - read/write LDAP support for addressbook incl. a cache for offline usage - notes - a reasonable way to set/entforce company wide policies for business use - enhanced autoconfiguration It sounds to me like there's no cause for alarm. Everyone is moving to the cloud. Applications become web-applications. People like web applications because they don't need to configure them. They only need to login. Browsers are becoming universal clients executing any kind of application you can think of. Look at what the recent years added to browsers: Offline caches, HTML 5, ability to run C-code applications within the browser. The days of many desktop clients are counted. It makes sense for Mozilla to drop the desktop client Thunderbird. It's time they moved on. Mozilla is the OSS Desktop Client Company per se and desktop clients are a dying species. That probably explains why they gather all ressources around Firefox OS. My problem with them dropping Thunderbird is, I don't see some important problems solved that should be solved before everyone uses webclients. Webclients assume you are always online, but - at least in Germany - being always online still is more of a marketing promise than a usable reality. I don't see how I would always have enough bandwidth to download everything required to run a fat web client that does mail. Neither do I see my browser being able to do what a mail client can do in offline mode. How would you use your mail/groupware client when you are offline in a browser? Tell a sales person he will have to use a webclient that does mail to download contract papers while he's on the road somewhere in the outback… But then - I was told so - that's not a problem for Mozilla because they never promised Thunderbird would be a good business mail client. Mozillas target group for Thunderbird was/is private users. So by their standards they aren't breaking a promise. Problem is: Thunderbird seems to be the only acceptable mail client that runs on all desktop platforms. When it will be gone costs will increase if you need to provide a groupware/mail client on more than one platform. The big question for me is: Thunderbird seems to play a major role in SOGos client model. What will SOGo/inverse do? Fork Thunderbird and maintain a dedicated SOGo client? Forget Thunderbird and focus on the web user interface? p@rick -- state of mind () http://www.state-of-mind.de Franziskanerstraße 15 Telefon +49 89 3090 4664 81669 München Telefax +49 89 3090 4666 Amtsgericht München Partnerschaftsregister PR 563 -- users@sogo.nu https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists
