Re: [vdr] PVRINPUT plugin and "black/cinema bars"
That might explain the option to "let program pick" on our converter boxes. But it only sometimes works on PBS. Sooo, guess that's another standard they decided not to use. On 4/29/2010 9:42 AM, Darren Salt wrote: I demand that Timothy D. Lenz may or may not have written... My local stations here in the US are doing the reverse on all primary atsc channels. They add bars to the side for anything that is not wide screen to make it wide screen. So 4:3 stuff on my 4:3 tv are in a little window because the software then adds bars top and bottom to put it back to 4:3 :(. http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22active+format+descriptor%22 [snip] ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] PVRINPUT plugin and "black/cinema bars"
I demand that Simon Baxter may or may not have written... [snip] > I'm using vdr-xine, but as I have 2x DVB-C cards also there's only about 5 > channels which I receive via the PVR-500. I could change the aspect in > xine, but it would change it for ALL channels wouldn't it? For DVB, http://xine-lib.alioth.debian.org/patches-1.1/AFD_support.patch may help. Otherwise, you're into auto-crop territory; the "expand" video output plugin will help. [snip] -- | Darren Salt| linux at youmustbejoking | nr. Ashington, | Toon | using Debian GNU/Linux | or ds,demon,co,uk| Northumberland | Army | + http://www.youmustbejoking.demon.co.uk/ & http://tlasd.wordpress.com/ What the hell, go ahead and put all your eggs in one basket. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] PVRINPUT plugin and "black/cinema bars"
I demand that Timothy D. Lenz may or may not have written... > My local stations here in the US are doing the reverse on all primary atsc > channels. They add bars to the side for anything that is not wide screen to > make it wide screen. So 4:3 stuff on my 4:3 tv are in a little window > because the software then adds bars top and bottom to put it back to 4:3 > :(. http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22active+format+descriptor%22 [snip] -- | Darren Salt| linux at youmustbejoking | nr. Ashington, | Toon | using Debian GNU/Linux | or ds,demon,co,uk| Northumberland | Army | + They're after you... Don't get stuck in a wardrobe - wear yourself out. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] PVRINPUT plugin and "black/cinema bars"
If you want to limit the plugin to using only the hardware then I agree. However, if you want to provide capabilities beyond what the hardware is capable of then software is the only other place to do it. This is perfectly fine, although it probably means the user wasted his money on a hardware decoder if he's just going to do software decoding anyways. It doesn't hurt to put more consideration into what you want/need before pouring money into hardware. I know guys that threw a lot of money at hardware decoders only to replace them with cheap vdpau-capable video cards. To each his own I suppose. :) I think Martin's talking about the PVR-500 encoding aspect, not hardware-vs-software decoders. I have no qualms about recoding - my production box is dual core 64-bit and sits mostly idle anyway :) ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] PVRINPUT plugin and "black/cinema bars"
You _could_ write some functions to detect and remove letterboxing, though I don't know anyone motivated enough to actually do it. The main goal of the pvrinput-plugin is to use the hardware encoder.I think it is a bad idea to do software-based on-the-fly-recoding. Simon, which output device do you use? Maybe the xine- or xineliboutput-Plugin can do the needed zoom for you. (?) I'm using vdr-xine, but as I have 2x DVB-C cards also there's only about 5 channels which I receive via the PVR-500. I could change the aspect in xine, but it would change it for ALL channels wouldn't it? Is there a flag I can send xine to crop only _some_ channels? I could also enable a remote key to switch aspect in xine, but I'm currently using vdr's lirc interface so would need to switch to xine's lirc (which can send lirc messages to vdr). Don't really want to do this - if possible. Or is there another way around this? ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] PVRINPUT plugin and "black/cinema bars"
On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 1:56 PM, Rob Davis wrote: > Except this is an input device, not an output device. It converts an > analogue signal to mpeg2, as such, it needs to make guesses about what > it's going to find.. Ahh, analog source & encoding. There won't be any mpeg headers and so on from that. :) I wouldn't bother trying to address this problem at input to be honest. It makes much more sense to me to do it at output anyways. Cheers ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] PVRINPUT plugin and "black/cinema bars"
> On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Martin Dauskardt wrote: >> The mpeg is not delivered by the broadcaster, it is generated by the >> encoder. >> The content of the header is a result of the V4L2_CID_MPEG_VIDEO_ASPECT >> setting done by the application. > > If the aspect ratio flag is unreliable, again, you can always just use > the resolution and calculate it. > >>> You _could_ write some functions to detect and remove letterboxing, >>> though I don't know anyone motivated enough to actually do it. >> >> The main goal of the pvrinput-plugin is to use the hardware encoder.I >> think it >> is a bad idea to do software-based on-the-fly-recoding. > > If you want to limit the plugin to using only the hardware then I > agree. However, if you want to provide capabilities beyond what the > hardware is capable of then software is the only other place to do it. > This is perfectly fine, although it probably means the user wasted > his money on a hardware decoder if he's just going to do software > decoding anyways. It doesn't hurt to put more consideration into what > you want/need before pouring money into hardware. I know guys that > threw a lot of money at hardware decoders only to replace them with > cheap vdpau-capable video cards. To each his own I suppose. :) > > Cheers Except this is an input device, not an output device. It converts an analogue signal to mpeg2, as such, it needs to make guesses about what it's going to find.. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] PVRINPUT plugin and "black/cinema bars"
On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Martin Dauskardt wrote: > The mpeg is not delivered by the broadcaster, it is generated by the encoder. > The content of the header is a result of the V4L2_CID_MPEG_VIDEO_ASPECT > setting done by the application. If the aspect ratio flag is unreliable, again, you can always just use the resolution and calculate it. >> You _could_ write some functions to detect and remove letterboxing, >> though I don't know anyone motivated enough to actually do it. > > The main goal of the pvrinput-plugin is to use the hardware encoder.I think it > is a bad idea to do software-based on-the-fly-recoding. If you want to limit the plugin to using only the hardware then I agree. However, if you want to provide capabilities beyond what the hardware is capable of then software is the only other place to do it. This is perfectly fine, although it probably means the user wasted his money on a hardware decoder if he's just going to do software decoding anyways. It doesn't hurt to put more consideration into what you want/need before pouring money into hardware. I know guys that threw a lot of money at hardware decoders only to replace them with cheap vdpau-capable video cards. To each his own I suppose. :) Cheers ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] PVRINPUT plugin and "black/cinema bars"
> From: VDR User > Subject: Re: [vdr] PVRINPUT plugin and "black/cinema bars" > > I am pretty sure that your TV station broadcasts analogue TV not > > anamorphic, which means it "delivers" the black bars to prevent the > > aspect ?ratio of a 16:9 content. > > The 'black bars' are called letterboxing. It's used to _preserve_ the > aspect ratio of widescreen content on 4:3 displays, not prevent it as > you've suggested. I meant that. Sorry for the mistake, english is not my native language. > > > Unfortunately there is no way to detect the incoming signal (Tuner or > > extern). Therefore it is not possible to automatically choose the right > > setting. > > Sure there is, just look in the mpeg headers. If for some reason that > flag isn't set correctly, you can also use the resolution along with > some simple math to calculate the aspect ratio. The mpeg is not delivered by the broadcaster, it is generated by the encoder. The content of the header is a result of the V4L2_CID_MPEG_VIDEO_ASPECT setting done by the application. > > >> Any ideas how to remove these? > > > > The driver does not support clipping/cropping. We will always encode the > > whole capture size. If there is already a bar, it will also be in the > > encoded stream. You could try to use the zoom mode of your TV. > > You _could_ write some functions to detect and remove letterboxing, > though I don't know anyone motivated enough to actually do it. The main goal of the pvrinput-plugin is to use the hardware encoder.I think it is a bad idea to do software-based on-the-fly-recoding. Simon, which output device do you use? Maybe the xine- or xineliboutput-Plugin can do the needed zoom for you. (?) Greets, Martin ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] PVRINPUT plugin and "black/cinema bars"
My local stations here in the US are doing the reverse on all primary atsc channels. They add bars to the side for anything that is not wide screen to make it wide screen. So 4:3 stuff on my 4:3 tv are in a little window because the software then adds bars top and bottom to put it back to 4:3 :(. On 4/26/2010 10:27 AM, VDR User wrote: On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Martin Dauskardt wrote: Doesn't matter which aspect ratio I choose, every channel under the PVR-500 displays with black (cinema) bars on the top and bottom of the image. I am pretty sure that your TV station broadcasts analogue TV not anamorphic, which means it "delivers" the black bars to prevent the aspect ratio of a 16:9 content. The 'black bars' are called letterboxing. It's used to _preserve_ the aspect ratio of widescreen content on 4:3 displays, not prevent it as you've suggested. Unfortunately there is no way to detect the incoming signal (Tuner or extern). Therefore it is not possible to automatically choose the right setting. Sure there is, just look in the mpeg headers. If for some reason that flag isn't set correctly, you can also use the resolution along with some simple math to calculate the aspect ratio. Any ideas how to remove these? The driver does not support clipping/cropping. We will always encode the whole capture size. If there is already a bar, it will also be in the encoded stream. You could try to use the zoom mode of your TV. You _could_ write some functions to detect and remove letterboxing, though I don't know anyone motivated enough to actually do it. Cheers ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] PVRINPUT plugin and "black/cinema bars"
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 10:27:18 -0700 VDR User wrote: > On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Martin Dauskardt > wrote: > > The driver does not support clipping/cropping. We will always encode > > the whole capture size. If there is already a bar, it will also be > > in the encoded stream. You could try to use the zoom mode of your > > TV. > > You _could_ write some functions to detect and remove letterboxing, > though I don't know anyone motivated enough to actually do it. If anyone is they could borrow code from mplayer's cropdetect filter. -- TH * http://www.realh.co.uk ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] PVRINPUT plugin and "black/cinema bars"
On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Martin Dauskardt wrote: >> Doesn't matter which aspect ratio I choose, every channel under the PVR-500 >> displays with black (cinema) bars on the top and bottom of the image. > > I am pretty sure that your TV station broadcasts analogue TV not anamorphic, > which means it "delivers" the black bars to prevent the aspect ratio of a > 16:9 content. The 'black bars' are called letterboxing. It's used to _preserve_ the aspect ratio of widescreen content on 4:3 displays, not prevent it as you've suggested. > Unfortunately there is no way to detect the incoming signal (Tuner or extern). > Therefore it is not possible to automatically choose the right setting. Sure there is, just look in the mpeg headers. If for some reason that flag isn't set correctly, you can also use the resolution along with some simple math to calculate the aspect ratio. >> Any ideas how to remove these? > The driver does not support clipping/cropping. We will always encode the whole > capture size. If there is already a bar, it will also be in the encoded > stream. You could try to use the zoom mode of your TV. You _could_ write some functions to detect and remove letterboxing, though I don't know anyone motivated enough to actually do it. Cheers ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] PVRINPUT plugin and "black/cinema bars"
you should upgrade to our new pvrinput version: http://projects.vdr-developer.org/attachments/download/288/vdr- pvrinput-2010-04-14.tgz see http://projects.vdr-developer.org/repositories/entry/plg-pvrinput/HISTORY I am pretty sure that your TV station broadcasts analogue TV not anamorphic, which means it "delivers" the black bars to prevent the aspect ratio of a 16:9 content. You're right - have checked on an analog input to the TV directly and the bars are there, being sent by the service provider. Damn! Using the full screen for 16:9 content would result in "egg heads". We call this anamorphic. A 16:9 TV would stretch this; a 4:3 TV screen would need to scale it down (generating the needed bars). At least in Germany analogue broadcastings are never anamorphic. I gues you are using the extern inputs to supply video from a digital receiver? Then it could be anamorphic of course. You would need to tell your digibox that you have a 16:9 TV. Nope, am using the tuner on-board in the PVR-500. Unfortunately there is no way to detect the incoming signal (Tuner or extern). Therefore it is not possible to automatically choose the right setting. Any ideas how to remove these? The driver does not support clipping/cropping. We will always encode the whole capture size. If there is already a bar, it will also be in the encoded stream. You could try to use the zoom mode of your TV. This doesn't work either, as the "PC input" setting on my Sony Bravia doesn't allow zooming. I guess I'm stuck with the bars, unless someone can suggest how to crop in VDR or on the ivtv driver? Plugin setup is as follows: pvrinput.BackupHack = 0 pvrinput.BackupInterval = 30 pvrinput.EnableDigibox = 1 pvrinput.FastChannelChange = 1 pvrinput.RedRemoteDevice = /dev/ledxmit These setup items have never been in any pvrinput version, so I gues you made patches. Could you provide them to me? I'm not actually using these settings now, but was when I was using the analog output from my cable STB and needed PVRINPUT to change the channel using an IR transmitter. Sorry, but I'm going to have to go through some backups to get this hack - will get back to you Simon ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] PVRINPUT plugin and "black/cinema bars"
> From: "Simon Baxter" > Subject: [vdr] PVRINPUT plugin and "black/cinema bars" > > Hi Everyone > > My machine has (among others) a PVR-500 dual-channel analog card and I'm > running vdr-1.6.0 with pvrinput-2008-07-05. you should upgrade to our new pvrinput version: http://projects.vdr-developer.org/attachments/download/288/vdr- pvrinput-2010-04-14.tgz see http://projects.vdr-developer.org/repositories/entry/plg-pvrinput/HISTORY > > Doesn't matter which aspect ratio I choose, every channel under the PVR-500 > displays with black (cinema) bars on the top and bottom of the image. I am pretty sure that your TV station broadcasts analogue TV not anamorphic, which means it "delivers" the black bars to prevent the aspect ratio of a 16:9 content. Using the full screen for 16:9 content would result in "egg heads". We call this anamorphic. A 16:9 TV would stretch this; a 4:3 TV screen would need to scale it down (generating the needed bars). At least in Germany analogue broadcastings are never anamorphic. I gues you are using the extern inputs to supply video from a digital receiver? Then it could be anamorphic of course. You would need to tell your digibox that you have a 16:9 TV. The pvrinput setup-entry "aspect ratio" does not really change the aspect ratio. It is only an ID inside the mpeg which notifies the TV if it is anamorphic or not. Unfortunately there is no way to detect the incoming signal (Tuner or extern). Therefore it is not possible to automatically choose the right setting. > Any ideas how to remove these? The driver does not support clipping/cropping. We will always encode the whole capture size. If there is already a bar, it will also be in the encoded stream. You could try to use the zoom mode of your TV. > > Plugin setup is as follows: > pvrinput.BackupHack = 0 > pvrinput.BackupInterval = 30 > pvrinput.EnableDigibox = 1 > pvrinput.FastChannelChange = 1 > pvrinput.RedRemoteDevice = /dev/ledxmit These setup items have never been in any pvrinput version, so I gues you made patches. Could you provide them to me? Greets, Martin ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
