[videoblogging] Re: Gov't always wins the election

[Enric]

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Haugstrup"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 21:25:43 +0200, Enric <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I don't see why an "angle" isn't a objective element.  It's an
> > objective truth of one's values, sensibilities and perspective gained
> > from living.  It just needs to be understood as what it is -- a
> > individual system of values applied to an event.  That a person has
> > specific values is no less a true fact than a dog found in a park.
> 
> As soon as you choose an angle you make a choice to show one possible  
> 'truth' out of many possible 'truths'. It's a choice made my the  
> journalists (or his editors) and it is subjective.
> 
> - Andreas
> -- 
> http://www.solitude.dk/ >
> Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology.

And it is objectively true as your truth or perspective.  It is an
added element to the objective reporting of the event.  There are many
possible events to cover, one makes a choice on that too.  It does not
deny the objectivity of a single event.

  -- Enric




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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Gov't always wins the election

[Andreas Haugstrup]

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 21:25:43 +0200, Enric <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I don't see why an "angle" isn't a objective element.  It's an
> objective truth of one's values, sensibilities and perspective gained
> from living.  It just needs to be understood as what it is -- a
> individual system of values applied to an event.  That a person has
> specific values is no less a true fact than a dog found in a park.

As soon as you choose an angle you make a choice to show one possible  
'truth' out of many possible 'truths'. It's a choice made my the  
journalists (or his editors) and it is subjective.

- Andreas
-- 
http://www.solitude.dk/ >
Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology.


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[videoblogging] Re: Gov't always wins the election

[Enric]

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Haugstrup"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 19:11:51 +0200, Adam Quirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
> wrote:
> 
> > So which form is more legitimate? A story on the BBC that uses
nothing  
> > but
> > direct quotes from witnesses, or a story that follows the reporter
as  
> > he/she
> > tries to dig up the facts.
> 
> Journalism has never been objective for the simple reason that totally  
> objective journalism is fucking boring. The only objective
journalism you  
> see is straight fact-stories along the lines of '22 men killed in
iraq'  
> and 'lost dog found in park', but even those usually branch out so
people  
> will actually read them.
> 
> The journalist will always choose an angle, and as such he is
subjective.
> 
> - Andreas
> -- 
> http://www.solitude.dk/ >
> Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology.

I don't see why an "angle" isn't a objective element.  It's an
objective truth of one's values, sensibilities and perspective gained
from living.  It just needs to be understood as what it is -- a
individual system of values applied to an event.  That a person has
specific values is no less a true fact than a dog found in a park.

  -- Enric




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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Gov't always wins the election

[Andreas Haugstrup]

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 19:11:51 +0200, Adam Quirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:

> So which form is more legitimate? A story on the BBC that uses nothing  
> but
> direct quotes from witnesses, or a story that follows the reporter as  
> he/she
> tries to dig up the facts.

Journalism has never been objective for the simple reason that totally  
objective journalism is fucking boring. The only objective journalism you  
see is straight fact-stories along the lines of '22 men killed in iraq'  
and 'lost dog found in park', but even those usually branch out so people  
will actually read them.

The journalist will always choose an angle, and as such he is subjective.

- Andreas
-- 
http://www.solitude.dk/ >
Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology.


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[videoblogging] Re: Gov't always wins the election

[Enric]

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Adam Quirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 9/7/05, Enric <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > What I think is unique in blogging/podcasting/vlogging is that people
> > who intimately know, have a history with and understand of in their
> > neighborhood can give a depth in coverage of people and events that is
> > very hard for a reporter from another city or even a local new agency
> > to achieve.
> 
> 
> Yep. I can't wait till there's a vlogger or 2 in every city. 
> 
> Wish we could have heard you in the conference last night.
> 
> -- 
> _ Quirk
> _ Bullemhead.com 

Thanks.  The meetings are really interesting and it's exciting was is
being developed.  I sent description of the problem to FlashMeeting
(the problem is when I activate the camera & audio, the meeting audio
doesn't come through.)  

  :),

  Enric
  Cirne
  http://www.cirne.com




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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Gov't always wins the election

[Adam Quirk]

On 9/7/05, Enric <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



What I think is unique in blogging/podcasting/vlogging is that people
who intimately know, have a history with and understand of in their
neighborhood can give a depth in coverage of people and events that is
very hard for a reporter from another city or even a local new agency
to achieve.
Yep.  I can't wait till there's a vlogger or 2 in every city.  

Wish we could have heard you in the conference last night.
-- _ Quirk_ Bullemhead.com





  
  
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[videoblogging] Re: Gov't always wins the election

[Enric]

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Adam Quirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> On 9/7/05, Enric <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I thought objectivity was the significant factor in professional
> > journalism (getting mulitple sources, corraboration, etc.)
> 
> 
> Depends on what kind of journalism you're talking about. Hunter
Thompson 
> started including himself in the accounts of events he was covering
and 
> invented a form of journalism that many people thought was much more
honest 
> than traditional "objective" journalism.
> 
> I tend to think that the most objective any one person can be is a 
> subjective matter, and that no matter how much distance you try to
stick 
> between the reporter and the story, little pieces of the reporter
will 
> always fall into the story.
> 
> So which form is more legitimate? A story on the BBC that uses
nothing but 
> direct quotes from witnesses, or a story that follows the reporter
as he/she 
> tries to dig up the facts. 
> 
> I don't know. I really don't know much about journalism aside from
what I've 
> read in books. I just know when my bullshit filters go off, I start
reading 
> something else. And they have been going off like crazy the past few
years 
> here in America.
> 
> -- 
> _ Quirk
> _ Bullemhead.com 

Looks like the discussion on objectivity is afoot.

Let me start by expanding on what I mean by "objective".  First, I do
think the old adage of separating ones individuality (views, emotions,
history, etc.) in reporting to achieve objectivity is incorrect and
misleading.  Objectivity is the standard of accurately representing
real events.  Sometimes this is clear and simple for example for a
meteorological report one can clearly show where a hurricane hit, what
it's impact was and so forth.  Other times it's more difficult when
people have competing interests, want to represent things in
particular ways that mislead for their own benefit and not reveal all
the facts.  It is still a reporters job to discover what really
happened and what people's actual motivations are.  It is not always
completely possible to achieve that.  But like any goal and standard,
one reaches toward it to the best of ones ability and corrects as new
information becomes available.

What I think is unique in blogging/podcasting/vlogging is that people
who intimately know, have a history with and understand of in their
neighborhood can give a depth in coverage of people and events that is
very hard for a reporter from another city or even a local new agency
to achieve.


  -- Enric
  Cirne
  http://www.cirne.com





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Re: [videoblogging] Re: Gov't always wins the election

[Adam Quirk]

On 9/7/05, Enric <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:




I thought objectivity was the significant factor in professional
journalism (getting mulitple sources, corraboration, etc.)
Depends on what kind of journalism you're talking about.  Hunter
Thompson started including himself in the accounts of events he was
covering and invented a form of journalism that many people thought was
much more honest than traditional "objective" journalism.

I tend to think that the most objective any one person can be is a
subjective matter, and that no matter how much distance you try to
stick between the reporter and the story, little pieces of the reporter
will always fall into the story.

So which form is more legitimate?  A story on the BBC that uses
nothing but direct quotes from witnesses, or a story that follows the
reporter as he/she tries to dig up the facts.  

I don't know.  I really don't know much about journalism aside
from what I've read in books.  I just know when my bullshit
filters go off, I start reading something else.  And they have
been going off like crazy the past few years here in America.
-- _ Quirk_ Bullemhead.com


  




  
  
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[videoblogging] Re: Gov't always wins the election

[Enric]

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Adrian Miles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> around the 7/9/05 Enric mentioned about [videoblogging] Re: Gov't 
> always wins the election that:
> >Does KKK stand for something different in Australia than in the U.S.A.?
> 
> no. and i'm *not* a member of the KKK, I was being facetious to try 
> to demonstrate my point. Since I'm not North American I apologise to 
> everyone on the list if it came across as poor or bad taste.

Ha, that is funny.  I had a problem resolving a KKK member asking not
to generalize about the New York Times.


> 
> >
> >
> >>can anyone explain to me how
> >>  this is *better* journalism than that practiced by someone at least
> >>  trained in some professional practice, a code of ethics, who (even
> >>  though it is dumb) at least thinks stories have 'two' sides?
> >
> >I thought objectivity was the significant factor in professional
> >journalism (getting mulitple sources, corraboration, etc.)
> 
> yep, which is as problematic as any other value, but this is my point 
> (and I think Andreas makes a similar point).

Actually, I think it's (objectivity) a discussion area worth getting
into at some point.  I think objectivity is to a significant extent
misunderstood.

  -- Enric

> A videoblogger 
> representing racist views - how on earth is that more pure citizen 
> journalism or more pure journalism than someone who at least uses the 
> benchmark of objectivity (which we can at least meaure against).
> -- 
> cheers
> Adrian Miles
> 
> hypertext.RMIT
> http://hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vlog>




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[videoblogging] Re: Gov't always wins the election

[Adrian Miles]

around the 7/9/05 Enric mentioned about [videoblogging] Re: Gov't 
always wins the election that:
>Does KKK stand for something different in Australia than in the U.S.A.?

no. and i'm *not* a member of the KKK, I was being facetious to try 
to demonstrate my point. Since I'm not North American I apologise to 
everyone on the list if it came across as poor or bad taste.

>
>
>>can anyone explain to me how
>>  this is *better* journalism than that practiced by someone at least
>>  trained in some professional practice, a code of ethics, who (even
>>  though it is dumb) at least thinks stories have 'two' sides?
>
>I thought objectivity was the significant factor in professional
>journalism (getting mulitple sources, corraboration, etc.)

yep, which is as problematic as any other value, but this is my point 
(and I think Andreas makes a similar point). A videoblogger 
representing racist views - how on earth is that more pure citizen 
journalism or more pure journalism than someone who at least uses the 
benchmark of objectivity (which we can at least meaure against).
-- 
cheers
Adrian Miles

hypertext.RMIT
http://hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vlog>


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[videoblogging] Re: Gov't always wins the election

[Enric]

--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Adrian Miles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> around the 6/9/05 Jay dedman mentioned about Re: [videoblogging] 
> Gov't always wins the election that:
> >maybe this is a differnce between US and Danish news.
> >US news has become almost completely unbelievable.
> >i believe that videoblogging/first-hand reports lend credibility.
> >people can play with reality (Nathan's "Modern Single Dad")...but for
> >the most part, i see most videoblogs as being extremely open,
> >sensitive, and believable.
> >funny you brought of the example of  media during the American
> >revolution..."Common Sense" by Thomas Paine was one of the most
> >influential citizen journalism who handed out basically a Zine.
> >It told the truth that traditional media wasnt/couldnt do.
> 
> yes, this discussion is confusing US *tv* news which is generally 
> intensely inward looking and quite shallow as all news. It isn't. 
> Here I watch an international orientated news at 6.30, then another 
> one at 9.30, and if i want sustained current affairs I have late 
> night live on radio from 10pm (people like Chomsky regular guests) or 
> Lateline on national TV (who have similar regular guests satellited 
> in from around the world). it isn't better, it is different.
> 
> Also generalisations don't work. The New York Times is still a 
> qualilty broadsheet, those who want and seek deeper information can, 
> and do, just because TV has had to evolve to a banal common 
> denominator it doesn't mean all media.
> 
> Finally, I'm a member of the KKK and I videoblog things that 
> represent my political views. I call myself a citizen journalist, 
> since videoblogging is pure citizen journalism (being a member of the 
> KKK, any argument about purity appeals), 

Does KKK stand for something different in Australia than in the U.S.A.?


>can anyone explain to me how 
> this is *better* journalism than that practiced by someone at least 
> trained in some professional practice, a code of ethics, who (even 
> though it is dumb) at least thinks stories have 'two' sides?

I thought objectivity was the significant factor in professional
journalism (getting mulitple sources, corraboration, etc.)

  -- Enric

> -- 
> cheers
> Adrian Miles
> 
> hypertext.RMIT
> http://hypertext.rmit.edu.au/vlog>




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