[videoblogging] Re: Not a videoblog, a 'signlog'!
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Gena [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to take a different approach to this. Most folks start with the technology and not with the potential viewers needs. Nothing wrong about looking at the tools but let me suggest another way to look at this challenge. *What is the bandwith that most of the viewers will be using? If they are on dial-up for economic reasons then the videos are gonna have to be 5MB or 160x120, at that size not good for signing. Yes, more and more folks are moving to affordable cable/broadband but what are the bulk of your potential viewership using? A VERY large number of deaf people are moving to broadband already. Not for the standard reason of having fast internet, but for the ability to use videophones and webcams. Indeed, Video relay services are handing both of them out free. (http:// csdvrs.com, http://sorensonvrs.com, http://www.hamiltonrelay.com/, and http:// horvrs.com are all handing out the d-link 1000 (http://www.dlink.com/products/? model=DVC-1000), as well as webcams (hovrs for one hands out isight and logitech webcams). Free and gratis. Have to be deaf, though. Videophones are still novelty for hearing folks. In contrast, almost every deaf person I know now has a videophone... sometimes two. Implicit with this is that they have broadband. If they don't have it yet, they are planning on it. So despite lower use of technology in general, deaf people do use broadband to a much higher extent. So I'm really not worried about that. We also have a pretty good jump on understanding how to use video. *If you are starting small, then a single source solution (free to experiement with) would be Blip.tv. In terms of getting folks use to the processe and finding out what your particular group needs. It is pretty straight forward. I do understand you want a community vlog with multiple features but think of this as step one - getting folks to understand what a vlog is and how it can be used to communicate and preserve culture/language. blip.tv might be useful to play with. for anything for a longer amount of time, I really feel I need a site with a distinct identity though. The reason basically boils down to one point. Look at most any vlog. Try yours, even. =) Without even looking, I can tell you one thing. I won't understand it. A reliance on audio, and a lack of subtitles renders most vlogs completely worthless to the deaf. Try freevlog.org for one.. tutorials uses audio. Theres no text of what to do anywhere in sight. This is very discouraging, and not very helpful. Cordoning off an area to be a 'safe heaven' that uses and understands sign is much more likely to lead to participation and experimentation. Having user contributed videos is a key factor, since it leads to a two way street, where people can safely try creating videos on a smaller level. At least thats my thought. =) *If you are choosing between mpeg-4 and 3ivx I'd go with mpeg-4, many people have QuickTime and would be able to access the videos with no problem. Rocketboom claims that 3ivx can be decoded easily within quicktime 6. If this is true, no problem. (http://www.rocketboom.com/extra/video_tools/) I have seen these claims to be true myself as a standard. Therefore, when making .MOV files, because MPEG-4 is perhaps the most pervasive, cross platform CODEC, using 3IVX is the best option for creating quality files at the best file sizes that I have found, while not requiring your audience to install additional plugins or obscure 3rd party players. Just cause they say it doesn't make it true, but it at least it shows me the option is there. If there is one thing we love around here is pushing boundries and inventing new ways to do things. And don't be so hot to chuck the video part of the signlog - what if there is a different narrative structure when a deaf person makes a video that doesn't have signing? Point taken. signlog just sounds better to a deaf guys eyes. =) Signvlog? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: Not a videoblog, a 'signlog'!
Point taken. signlog just sounds better to a deaf guys eyes. =) Signvlog? Yes, I love it - and not only that you get to create the sign for it. Understanding my vlog - well now, I am a (text) wordy kind of person so you would have a grip as to what the video is about. Yes, I use audio. Many times it is environmental but I can't deny some audio act as a carrier for the video. You don't get out of the audio problem either - when folks shoot video there might be environmental sounds. Folks will have to strip audio to potentially cut down on file size. Hee-hee, I love irony. But now that you have rung that 508 accessibility bell I'm going to have to re-think if I do want captions. Or can the story be told w/o audio. For the record, the tutorial that freevlog has up is not accessible to me either - I'm on my last few weeks of dial-up. So it is an issue that is discussed from time to time. Some feel that they do not want to give up quality for x-amount of viewers. Others feel that it can look good and not be bloated if you use the right settings. I am starting to contribute to the wiki for this group. I am writing as fast as my job, my school life, the teeny tiny part of my personal life, and the pile of laundry will allow. If there is something specific that you would like me to post concerning tutorial matters please let me know. That is what it is there for. The wiki address is: http://www.voxmedia.org/wiki/Video I just started adding sections, so it is a work in process. I am very serious about filling it up with good stuff. If you have time I would love your input. In the interest of full disclosure, I studied to be an interpreter in the prior century. Gena http://outonthestoop.blogspot.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/T8sf5C/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: Not a videoblog, a 'signlog'!
Greetings, Welcome to the group. Im just about to eat dinner but here is a brief start at replying to the questions youve raised. I havent seen the features you need in a CMS. I havent seen a CMS thats truly built video into the heart of its system. Drupal and wordpress video modules do work, but they are far from a polsished and hassle free experience for the user. Part of the revolution in text blogging was how easy and intuitive the publishing tools became, I dont think we are quite there with video yet. How big will the videos people upload be? Uploading via a browser has seriously problems when files start getting bigger than 10 or 20MB or so. Ourmedia is a good example of a community site using drupal, but also it would seem a possible example of one of your fears, being a victim of own sucess, in terms of available server capacity not matching demand etc. Id start small, whatever solution you go for, take it in steps and see how well it scales to increased numbers of publishers and viewers. In the absense of an existing CMS with amazing intuitive and flexible video features, you can either find ways to encourage such developments to happen, or try to dodge the issue. Use a CMS for the site, but make use of a seperate service provider who hosts the videos and has an easy publishing/upload feature for video. Im really out of date when it comes to how good the video publishing features of services are, rather than available opensource DIY systems. But maybe there are some that are great, if you are prepared to pay a little. Whats that audioblog.com or whatever its called like? Se I dont even know the right names, Im just saying you may have luck with combining a CMS with an external video service. Also agree with you that the solutions for saving bandwidth mostly too clunky and spoil ease of use for users. Is sign language fast enough that youd want to use 25/30 frames per second for video rather than the more typical 15 fps that a lot of videobloggers use? Video formats are a nightmare, there is no universal agreement, luckily your situation probably still fits most encoding advise that people will give you, just maybe not framerate. Im out of time for nowm my pies are cooked Good luck with this stuff Steve of Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Brein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me introduce myself here, as I'm new to this group. I'm Brein Mcnamara, a 28 year old new transplant to the wilds of minnesota. The most interesting thing about me is the main reason I'm sending this message. I'm Deaf. The majority of deaf people communicate in a visual medium. That is, sign language. Videoblogging seems to be a great medium for communicating in sign language. The trick is to find a way to take full advantage of the medium, and to encourage more use of it. Deaf people are an odd mix when it comes to technology. Many are not exactly technically inclined, but at the same time very eager to use tools that make it easier for them to communicate. (for example, many deaf people use video relay services...like http://sorensonvrs.com for one). As a solution to this, my thought is to create a video news site in ASL(American Sign Language) that is community oriented. This would both provide a beneficial use of video in ASL, and allow user participation and learning about the medium. At the risk of being redundant, I'd like to ask this group some questions, (I've looked through the archives, but asking in the hope of getting answers more specific to my needs can't hurt). Which content management system would be recommended in this situation? to clarify, I would need: * community focused features, not just for a single blog. * EASY ability to upload and post videos. Posting videos by hand isn't enough, there has to be an easy work flow for users to be able to do this on their own. I will provide a tutorial on how to create a video, but after that, its best if it requires zero intervention on my part. * user friendly enough for it to be accessible to those with lower technical literacy. I'm looking at drupal now, but the video module being in beta isn't exactly encouraging. What type of videos would be recommended? Four fold requirements here.. *With the least bandwidth.. I'm looking at potentially providing a large amount of videos, so a free provider would not likely be an option. Thus, serious bandwidth issues will kick in. *with the most accessibility.. for people to view without problems, or complicated steps. *with the ability to easily create and post. .. essential if I am going to allow others to provide their own videos. (read: no conversion steps on my part required after I receive them. ) * the best quality... sign language has relatively fast motion, and also requires the need to clearly see facial expressions and body language. (audio would likely
[videoblogging] Re: Not a videoblog, a 'signlog'!
Its probably worth following up with that guy for some ideas, but I'm on a different focus. original news content of exclusively signed videos (no subtitles), with a larger community oriented focus, instead of a single blog. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Josh Leo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: here is a guy, who i know some people of the group (including myself) have subtitled videos forhe uses sign language in a vlog and actualyl seems to be doing alot with the concept. http://www.deaftv.net/ On 10/10/05, Brein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me introduce myself here, as I'm new to this group. I'm Brein Mcnamara, a 28 year old new transplant to the wilds of minnesota. The most interesting thing about me is the main reason I'm sending this message. I'm Deaf. The majority of deaf people communicate in a visual medium. That is, sign language. Videoblogging seems to be a great medium for communicating in sign language. The trick is to find a way to take full advantage of the medium, and to encourage more use of it. Deaf people are an odd mix when it comes to technology. Many are not exactly technically inclined, but at the same time very eager to use tools that make it easier for them to communicate. (for example, many deaf people use video relay services...like http://sorensonvrs.com for one). -- Josh Leo joshleo.com http://joshleo.com stonefarm.blogspot.com http://stonefarm.blogspot.com joshspicks.blogspot.com http://joshspicks.blogspot.com wearethemedia.com http://wearethemedia.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life. http://us.click.yahoo.com/A77XvD/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: Not a videoblog, a 'signlog'!
Thanks for the good advice. Although not a solution, it gets me closer to one. =) Your advice to start small is quite wise. I'm actually aiming to do that, but trying to be forward thinking so I resolve problems before hand, instead of being trapped into platform that can't grow with the site. I think an open source solution more ideal, since once the site expands, I can try to customize the code to make it more suitable to our needs. For now, what ever is closest to 'good enough' will have to do. The question then becomes what I can use that can be moved from 'good enough' to great in an ideal future. Let me answer your questions though... How big will the videos people upload be? Uploading via a browser has seriously problems when files start getting bigger than 10 or 20MB or so. My thought is that if i limit the time to a maximum of 2-3 minutes, remove the audio and have good compression, I can aim to keep videos at or under 8 MB. Likely smaller, but that number gives me breathing room. I'm still trying to figure out how much smaller to aim for in an acceptable quality/size ratio. Is sign language fast enough that youd want to use 25/30 frames per second for video rather than the more typical 15 fps that a lot of videobloggers use? Video formats are a nightmare, there is no universal agreement, luckily your situation probably still fits most encoding advise that people will give you, just maybe not framerate. I've been experimenting with compression types, and would have to say that signed videos are more ideal at at least 25 fps. The problem is that some people sign VERY fast, enough to seem off at a slower frame rate. (To put it in perspective, a pissed-off rapid fire signer can sign fast enough to blur under your own two eyes. ) A more leisurely signing pace seems to work ok under a slower frame rate without problems but I can't rely on that. Thats really the only encoding issue that gives me any problems. I do need to keep the quality and data rate slightly higher to ensure 'crisp' visibility of the signs, but from my experience following normal suggestions for compressing a video at a higher quality works just fine. -- Brein --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Steve Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings, Welcome to the group. Im just about to eat dinner but here is a brief start at replying to the questions youve raised. I havent seen the features you need in a CMS. I havent seen a CMS thats truly built video into the heart of its system. Drupal and wordpress video modules do work, but they are far from a polsished and hassle free experience for the user. Part of the revolution in text blogging was how easy and intuitive the publishing tools became, I dont think we are quite there with video yet. How big will the videos people upload be? Uploading via a browser has seriously problems when files start getting bigger than 10 or 20MB or so. Ourmedia is a good example of a community site using drupal, but also it would seem a possible example of one of your fears, being a victim of own sucess, in terms of available server capacity not matching demand etc. Id start small, whatever solution you go for, take it in steps and see how well it scales to increased numbers of publishers and viewers. In the absense of an existing CMS with amazing intuitive and flexible video features, you can either find ways to encourage such developments to happen, or try to dodge the issue. Use a CMS for the site, but make use of a seperate service provider who hosts the videos and has an easy publishing/upload feature for video. Im really out of date when it comes to how good the video publishing features of services are, rather than available opensource DIY systems. But maybe there are some that are great, if you are prepared to pay a little. Whats that audioblog.com or whatever its called like? Se I dont even know the right names, Im just saying you may have luck with combining a CMS with an external video service. Also agree with you that the solutions for saving bandwidth mostly too clunky and spoil ease of use for users. Is sign language fast enough that youd want to use 25/30 frames per second for video rather than the more typical 15 fps that a lot of videobloggers use? Video formats are a nightmare, there is no universal agreement, luckily your situation probably still fits most encoding advise that people will give you, just maybe not framerate. Im out of time for nowm my pies are cooked Good luck with this stuff Steve of Elbows Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life. http://us.click.yahoo.com/A77XvD/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to:
[videoblogging] Re: Not a videoblog, a 'signlog'!
I'd like to take a different approach to this. Most folks start with the technology and not with the potential viewers needs. Nothing wrong about looking at the tools but let me suggest another way to look at this challenge. *What is the bandwith that most of the viewers will be using? If they are on dial-up for economic reasons then the videos are gonna have to be 5MB or 160x120, at that size not good for signing. Yes, more and more folks are moving to affordable cable/broadband but what are the bulk of your potential viewership using? This will help you make decisions based on their current needs not what you feel they ought to have. You know you have to have a higher frame rate than what we normally do here but you are gonna have balance that with what folks use to connect to the Internet? *If you are starting small, then a single source solution (free to experiement with) would be Blip.tv. In terms of getting folks use to the processe and finding out what your particular group needs. It is pretty straight forward. I do understand you want a community vlog with multiple features but think of this as step one - getting folks to understand what a vlog is and how it can be used to communicate and preserve culture/language. *I think for the young teens/adults it is not going to be that much of a learning curve and one of the missions here is to teach as many people as possible how to do this. Young, old, everybody that wants to learn. We have started classes around the country and are figuring out how to do explain this process to all kinds of people. Thanks for the butt kick to remind me to write down an accessible (for all) lesson plans outline. *If you are choosing between mpeg-4 and 3ivx I'd go with mpeg-4, many people have QuickTime and would be able to access the videos with no problem. If there is one thing we love around here is pushing boundries and inventing new ways to do things. And don't be so hot to chuck the video part of the signlog - what if there is a different narrative structure when a deaf person makes a video that doesn't have signing? I'm taking your questions to bed now, keep in touch. Gena http://outonthestoop.blogspot.com * --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Brein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me introduce myself here, as I'm new to this group. I'm Brein Mcnamara, a 28 year old new transplant to the wilds of minnesota. The most interesting thing about me is the main reason I'm sending this message. I'm Deaf. The majority of deaf people communicate in a visual medium. That is, sign language. Videoblogging seems to be a great medium for communicating in sign language. The trick is to find a way to take full advantage of the medium, and to encourage more use of it. Deaf people are an odd mix when it comes to technology. Many are not exactly technically inclined, but at the same time very eager to use tools that make it easier for them to communicate. (for example, many deaf people use video relay services...like http://sorensonvrs.com for one). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Most low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide today! http://us.click.yahoo.com/cd_AJB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
