Re: [vintagvw] Abridged summary of vintagvw@googlegroups.com - 6 updates in 1 topic

[Kyle Davis]

Hey all,

  I also seem to remember seeing scoops for the side air vents, perhaps
a creative car craft fiberglass option?

Still waiting to get both herbie AND my VW rabbit pickup back on the road.

Kyle
Former 74 superbeetle autostick
Former 73 squareback with dodgy fuel injection
Former 66 bug which I should've kept
Current 69 beetle that makes the 66 issues look like cake
Current 80 VW Rabbit pickup truck that needs a new clutch.


On Tue, Oct 4, 2022, 11:51 AM  wrote:

> vintagvw@googlegroups.com
> 
>  Google
> Groups
> 
> 
> Today's topic summary
> View all topics
> 
>
>- Air scoops, theoretically... <#m_1573929336740026297_group_thread_0>
>- 6 Updates
>
> Air scoops, theoretically...
> 
> D Johnson : Oct 03 01:02PM -0400
>
> I'm asking for a friend... Actually this is a theoretical question only,
> I'm not really thinking about doing this.
>
> Has anyone converted the Super Beetle moon-shaped air inlets behind the
> ...more
> 
> Ray Yoder : Oct 03 05:55PM
>
> I feel like long ago it saw fiberglass scoops ror the area you mentioned?
>
> Sent from the all new AOL app for Android
>
> On Mon, Oct 3, 2022 at 1:02 PM, D Johnson
> ...more
> 
> Ray Yoder : Oct 03 05:57PM
>
> Things are looking up. A vintagVW post
>
> Sent from the all new AOL app for Android
>
> On Mon, Oct 3, 2022 at 1:02 PM, D Johnson
> wrote: I'm asking for a friend... ...more
> 
> "Eric Ridvan Üner" : Oct 03 01:48PM -0500
>
> So this is anecdotal, but I do know of two people who, at the same time
> used side scoops on one beetle, and a roof scoop on the other (with a cool
> flame job on a pseudo dune-style bug). ...more
> 
> Ray Yoder : Oct 03 10:33PM
>
> Sent from the all new AOL app for Android
>
> On Mon, Oct 3, 2022 at 1:55 PM, 'Ray Yoder' via VintagVW - Air Cooled
> Volkswagen Discussion List wrote: I feel like
> long ...more
> 
> "Dave C. Bolen" : Oct 04 09:39AM -0500
>
> Guys,
>
> Ok, I have a megasqirted turboed 1776 in my 68 bug.
> I have the fiberglass side scoops and 2" holes drilled thru the body into
> the engine compartment at the end of the fiberglass scoops. ...more
> 
> Back to top <#m_1573929336740026297_digest_top>
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Re: [vintagvw] Air scoops, theoretically...

[John Sroka]

Interesting discussion,  particularly the airflow Youtube. Seems like a lot
of turbulence occurs in the tail light areas  of the Type 1, I'm curious if
removal or mods to the outflow area (cooling flaps) is compounded by this
turbulence.  Found this related article
http://vw-resource.com/cooling_system.html


On Tue, Oct 4, 2022, 11:38 AM andy  wrote:

> Maybe the reason the roof scoops are working the best is because the hot
> air is rising out of it and has a place to go?
>
> On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 9:39:20 AM UTC-5 Dave C. Bolen wrote:
>
>> Guys,
>>
>> Ok, I have a megasqirted turboed 1776 in my 68 bug.
>> I have the fiberglass side scoops and 2" holes drilled thru the body into
>> the engine compartment at the end of the fiberglass scoops. I also have a
>> fiberglass scoop that goes across the entire vent area above the decklid.
>>
>> I also have a covertible decklid with a couple of 2 inch holes behind the
>> license plate.
>>
>> The turbo is a lowbugget turbo that sits in the engine compartment.
>> All engine seals are intact and seal pretty well against the turbo pipes.
>> Stock doghouse oil cooler with vortex ring on the fan intake.
>>
>> On a 100 degree day on a 23 mile backroad trip I run around 240 degrees.
>> If I push the turbo a lot I can push 260 or better but at that point I am
>> pushing compressed(who know how hot) engine air into the intake. This
>> doen't happen often because engines don't like hot air on intake.
>>
>> My opinion is that none of the scoops really helps.
>>
>> The only thing that really makes a difference is decklid standoofs(which
>> I
>> don't really like). With standoffs I can keep it a 220 all day long.
>>
>> Ok, this is the internet age so go to google and ask for
>>
>> air cooled vw bug wind tunnel
>>
>>
>> Thre are some new ones in there but this is the one I have watched
>> more than a few times.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtXOUrTc_dA
>>
>> Basically what it look like to me is that from about the top of the rear
>> window the air floww "delaminates" from the car causing a vacuum in the
>> rear.
>>
>> The sides of the car "seem" about the same.
>>
>> I am reminded of some of the gene berg writings where he is trying to
>> test
>> air scoops on a pre 67 bushe finally gives up as just having the
>> front
>> window open or the vent window open makes a big difference in air flow.
>>
>> I did buy a CFM Anemometer and plan to use it on the two side holes I
>> drilled but it hasn't happened yet.
>>
>> Cheers, dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 3 Oct 2022, Eric Ridvan Üner wrote:
>>
>> > So this is anecdotal, but I do know of two people who, at the same time
>> used side scoops on one beetle, and a roof scoop on the other (with a cool
>> > flame job on a pseudo dune-style bug). Neither has stock engines. The
>> side scoops were not at all effective, and the owner ended up with a new
>> > decklid. The roof scoop was, in contrast, pretty effective, but still
>> not ideal.
>> > This was actually the opposite of what I expected.
>> >
>> > Disclaimer: I am not an aeronautical engineer. But ... I can imagine
>> the faster flowing air over the surface of the curved hood and roof creates
>> a
>> > slight vacuum. That might reduce the amount of cool air unless the
>> scoop goes as close to the windshield as possible. The side scoops might
>> not have
>> > that vacuum, so I expected them to be more effective. Also, there was
>> more area for a greater volume of air to enter. I think perhaps the lack of
>> > vents combined with the scoops just created turbulence and trapped warm
>> air, and the flat(ish) undercarriage did not create enough vacuum to pull
>> the
>> > warm air out.
>> >
>> > This is an observation based on no data and two vehicles 20 years ago,
>> but that's all I've got. :-)
>> >
>> > On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:57 PM, 'Ray Yoder' via VintagVW - Air Cooled
>> Volkswagen Discussion List  wrote:
>> >
>> > Things are looking up. A vintagVW post
>> >
>> > Sent from the all new AOL app for Android
>> >
>> > On Mon, Oct 3, 2022 at 1:02 PM, D Johnson
>> >  wrote:
>> > I'm asking for a friend... Actually this is a theoretical question
>> only, I'm not really thinking about doing this.
>> > Has anyone converted the Super Beetle moon-shaped air inlets behind the
>> rear quarter panels to route cool air to the engine compartment?
>> > I know I've seen engine-swapped beetles with air intakes in plexiglass
>> rear quarter windows. But for a stock engine, if you wanted to use
>> > a non vented deck lid, could you get enough air through the side vents
>> if you put scoops on them? I'm intellectually curious if this has
>> > been done and what internal modifications would need to have been made.
>> >
>> > I"m putting a new gas tank in my '71 super and will be trying to
>> resurrect the dual carbs this winter, hoping to have it on the road
>> > again next year. It's been off the road due to both a catastrophic
>> transaxle failure and a near catastrophic valve failure 

Re: [vintagvw] Air scoops, theoretically...

[andy]

Maybe the reason the roof scoops are working the best is because the hot 
air is rising out of it and has a place to go?

On Tuesday, October 4, 2022 at 9:39:20 AM UTC-5 Dave C. Bolen wrote:

> Guys,
>
> Ok, I have a megasqirted turboed 1776 in my 68 bug.
> I have the fiberglass side scoops and 2" holes drilled thru the body into 
> the engine compartment at the end of the fiberglass scoops. I also have a 
> fiberglass scoop that goes across the entire vent area above the decklid.
>
> I also have a covertible decklid with a couple of 2 inch holes behind the 
> license plate.
>
> The turbo is a lowbugget turbo that sits in the engine compartment.
> All engine seals are intact and seal pretty well against the turbo pipes.
> Stock doghouse oil cooler with vortex ring on the fan intake.
>
> On a 100 degree day on a 23 mile backroad trip I run around 240 degrees.
> If I push the turbo a lot I can push 260 or better but at that point I am 
> pushing compressed(who know how hot) engine air into the intake. This 
> doen't happen often because engines don't like hot air on intake.
>
> My opinion is that none of the scoops really helps.
>
> The only thing that really makes a difference is decklid standoofs(which I 
> don't really like). With standoffs I can keep it a 220 all day long.
>
> Ok, this is the internet age so go to google and ask for
>
> air cooled vw bug wind tunnel
>
>
> Thre are some new ones in there but this is the one I have watched
> more than a few times.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtXOUrTc_dA
>
> Basically what it look like to me is that from about the top of the rear 
> window the air floww "delaminates" from the car causing a vacuum in the 
> rear.
>
> The sides of the car "seem" about the same.
>
> I am reminded of some of the gene berg writings where he is trying to test 
> air scoops on a pre 67 bushe finally gives up as just having the front 
> window open or the vent window open makes a big difference in air flow.
>
> I did buy a CFM Anemometer and plan to use it on the two side holes I 
> drilled but it hasn't happened yet.
>
> Cheers, dave
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 3 Oct 2022, Eric Ridvan Üner wrote:
>
> > So this is anecdotal, but I do know of two people who, at the same time 
> used side scoops on one beetle, and a roof scoop on the other (with a cool
> > flame job on a pseudo dune-style bug). Neither has stock engines. The 
> side scoops were not at all effective, and the owner ended up with a new
> > decklid. The roof scoop was, in contrast, pretty effective, but still 
> not ideal. 
> > This was actually the opposite of what I expected. 
> > 
> > Disclaimer: I am not an aeronautical engineer. But ... I can imagine the 
> faster flowing air over the surface of the curved hood and roof creates a
> > slight vacuum. That might reduce the amount of cool air unless the scoop 
> goes as close to the windshield as possible. The side scoops might not have
> > that vacuum, so I expected them to be more effective. Also, there was 
> more area for a greater volume of air to enter. I think perhaps the lack of
> > vents combined with the scoops just created turbulence and trapped warm 
> air, and the flat(ish) undercarriage did not create enough vacuum to pull 
> the
> > warm air out. 
> > 
> > This is an observation based on no data and two vehicles 20 years ago, 
> but that's all I've got. :-)
> >
> > On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:57 PM, 'Ray Yoder' via VintagVW - Air Cooled 
> Volkswagen Discussion List  wrote:
> > 
> > Things are looking up. A vintagVW post
> > 
> > Sent from the all new AOL app for Android
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 3, 2022 at 1:02 PM, D Johnson
> >  wrote:
> > I'm asking for a friend... Actually this is a theoretical question only, 
> I'm not really thinking about doing this.
> > Has anyone converted the Super Beetle moon-shaped air inlets behind the 
> rear quarter panels to route cool air to the engine compartment? 
> > I know I've seen engine-swapped beetles with air intakes in plexiglass 
> rear quarter windows. But for a stock engine, if you wanted to use
> > a non vented deck lid, could you get enough air through the side vents 
> if you put scoops on them? I'm intellectually curious if this has
> > been done and what internal modifications would need to have been made.
> > 
> > I"m putting a new gas tank in my '71 super and will be trying to 
> resurrect the dual carbs this winter, hoping to have it on the road
> > again next year. It's been off the road due to both a catastrophic 
> transaxle failure and a near catastrophic valve failure since 2008.
> > Life happens.
> > Fingers Crossed and I hope everybody is staying safe and sane out there.
> > 
> > Dean
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Visit the VintagVW archives at 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/vint...@googlegroups.com 
> 
> >  
> > For help with posting messages, subscribing, unsubscribing or other 
> needs send a blank email to vintag...@googlegroups.com
> > 
> > For any 

Re: [vintagvw] Air scoops, theoretically...

[Dave C. Bolen]

Guys,

Ok, I have a megasqirted turboed 1776 in my 68 bug.
I have the fiberglass side scoops and 2" holes drilled thru the body into 
the engine compartment at the end of the fiberglass scoops.  I also have a 
fiberglass scoop that goes across the entire vent area above the decklid.


I also have a covertible decklid with a couple of 2 inch holes behind the 
license plate.


The turbo is a lowbugget turbo that sits in the engine compartment.
All engine seals are intact and seal pretty well against the turbo pipes.
Stock doghouse oil cooler with vortex ring on the fan intake.

On a 100 degree day on a 23 mile backroad trip I run around 240 degrees.
If I push the turbo a lot I can push 260 or better but at that point I am 
pushing compressed(who know how hot) engine air into the intake.  This 
doen't happen often because engines don't like hot air on intake.


My opinion is that none of the scoops really helps.

The only thing that really makes a difference is decklid standoofs(which I 
don't really like).  With standoffs I can keep it a 220 all day long.


Ok, this is the internet age so go to google and ask for

air cooled vw bug wind tunnel


Thre are some new ones in there but this is the one I have watched
more than a few times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtXOUrTc_dA

Basically what it look like to me is that from about the top of the rear 
window the air floww "delaminates" from the car causing a vacuum in the 
rear.


The sides of the car "seem" about the same.

I am reminded of some of the gene berg writings where he is trying to test 
air scoops on a pre 67 bushe finally gives up as just having the front 
window open or the vent window open makes a big difference in air flow.


I did buy a CFM Anemometer and plan to use it on the two side holes I 
drilled but it hasn't happened yet.


Cheers, dave





On Mon, 3 Oct 2022, Eric Ridvan Üner wrote:


So this is anecdotal, but I do know of two people who, at the same time used 
side scoops on one beetle, and a roof scoop on the other (with a cool
flame job on a pseudo dune-style bug). Neither has stock engines. The side 
scoops were not at all effective, and the owner ended up with a new
decklid. The roof scoop was, in contrast, pretty effective, but still not 
ideal. 
This was actually the opposite of what I expected. 

Disclaimer: I am not an aeronautical engineer. But ... I can imagine the faster 
flowing air over the surface of the curved hood and roof creates a
slight vacuum. That might reduce the amount of cool air unless the scoop goes 
as close to the windshield as possible. The side scoops might not have
that vacuum, so I expected them to be more effective. Also, there was more area 
for a greater volume of air to enter. I think perhaps the lack of
vents combined with the scoops just created turbulence and trapped warm air, 
and the flat(ish) undercarriage did not create enough vacuum to pull the
warm air out. 

This is an observation based on no data and two vehicles 20 years ago, but 
that's all I've got. :-)

  On Oct 3, 2022, at 12:57 PM, 'Ray Yoder' via VintagVW - Air Cooled Volkswagen 
Discussion List  wrote:

Things are looking up. A vintagVW post

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android

  On Mon, Oct 3, 2022 at 1:02 PM, D Johnson
 wrote:
I'm asking for a friend... Actually this is a theoretical question only, I'm 
not really thinking about doing this.
Has anyone converted the Super Beetle moon-shaped air inlets behind the rear 
quarter panels to route cool air to the engine compartment? 
I know I've seen engine-swapped beetles with air intakes in plexiglass rear 
quarter windows. But for a stock engine, if you wanted to use
a non vented deck lid, could you get enough air through the side vents if you 
put scoops on them? I'm intellectually curious if this has
been done and what internal modifications would need to have been made.

I"m putting a new gas tank in my '71 super and will be trying to resurrect the 
dual carbs this winter, hoping to have it on the road
again next year. It's been off the road due to both a catastrophic transaxle 
failure and a near catastrophic valve failure since 2008.
Life happens.
Fingers Crossed and I hope everybody is staying safe and sane out there.

Dean


--
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