Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Alex Balashov]

‎One of the features of the way marketing has worked for the last hundred years 
is that every once in a while somebody will call BS when the needle gets too 
high with folks parroting vendor whitepapers and collateral. 

They are largely ignored, have little no material impact on the planet or the 
world, and life goes on--they're no match for billion-dollar snowjob budgets. 
And yet it would be fair to say that piercing the fog is a periodically 
necessary activity that provides a certain strategic balance, even if a 
lopsided ones.

I was certainly around for the "Ha? Linux? It is not a serious OS for the 
enterprise." discourse back in the day. FOSS acquires market share somehow. By 
and large, it's by sticking to the fundamentals.
‎
--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
Atlanta, GA 30309
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/

Sent from my BlackBerry.
  Original Message  
From: James Milko
Sent: Friday, April 8, 2016 11:32
To: Ryan Finnesey
Cc: voiceops@voiceops.org
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Brandon Buckner]

I've run the Sonus SWe in a lab environment and it works quite well. Everything 
is exactly the same as the SBC5/7xxx platform minus the hardware specific 
pieces (like reboot commands). It does not have transcoding ability, however, 
and we have a requirement to do a lot of that with our SBCs. So if you can get 
by without needing to do transcoding at that point in your network, it can work 
well.

> On Apr 8, 2016, at 10:31 AM, James Milko  wrote:
> 
> Since this thread pretty much immediately devolved into complaining about the 
> way marketing has worked for the last 100 years.
> 
> Does anyone have any actual experience?  I'm pretty interested in anyone who 
> has tried to run a Sonus SWe in AWS at the moment.  If you tried transcoding 
> I'm curious on how that worked out.
> 
> JM
> 
>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 9:11 PM, Ryan Finnesey  wrote:
>> Has any more worked with products similar to 
>> http://www.sonus.net/products/session-border-controllers/virtualized-sbc-swe
>> 
>> What has your experience been?
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Ryan
>> 
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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[James Milko]

Since this thread pretty much immediately devolved into complaining about
the way marketing has worked for the last 100 years.

Does anyone have any actual experience?  I'm pretty interested in anyone
who has tried to run a Sonus SWe in AWS at the moment.  If you tried
transcoding I'm curious on how that worked out.

JM

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 9:11 PM, Ryan Finnesey  wrote:

> Has any more worked with products similar to
> http://www.sonus.net/products/session-border-controllers/virtualized-sbc-swe
>
> What has your experience been?
>
> Cheers
> Ryan
>
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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Nenad Corbic]

Hi Ryan

We at Sangoma run our VM SBC and Hybrid VM SBCs on all virtualization 
platforms. We are seeing a lot of interest in "NFV" to use the buzz word. 

VM SBC is pure software. 
- SBC features minus transcoding.
- Managed via REST API

Hybrid VM SBC 
- VM SBC + Ethernet DSP pcie card gives you VM with transcoding.  Best of both 
worlds. :)

We run a Hyper-V Hybrid VM SBC in our production Lync /Skype for business  
deployments. 

Recently we did Hyper-V benchmarks -no transcoding and was shocked with the 
quality and performance of Hyper-V.  

I would be interested to hear what your crypto / transcoding / SBC requirements 
are. We could run some scenario benchmarking in our lab and publish what is 
possible with today's VMs. 

Good luck. 

Nenad Corbic
VP Engineering 
Sangoma Technologies


> On Apr 6, 2016, at 9:57 PM, Ryan Finnesey <r...@finnesey.com> wrote:
> 
> I want to build an appliance that we would deploy on the customer perm that 
> would run on  Hyper-V and run 4 Windows VM and a  Virtualized SBC.  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-boun...@voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Alex 
> Balashov
> Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 9:45 PM
> To: voiceops@voiceops.org
> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC
> 
> So, it's news to the Bellhead world that most "SBCs" run on commodity pizza 
> boxes & OSs that are branded by the vendor and resold at large markups, and 
> that the software can be separated from the hardware and executed on other 
> pizza boxes, and, indeed, inside VMs? And they have a whole buzzword for this?
> 
> -- 
> Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
> 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
> Atlanta, GA 30309
> United States
> 
> Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
> Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Anthony Orlando via VoiceOps]

You didn't just seriously say that?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 7, 2016, at 9:54 AM, Alex Balashov  wrote:
> 
> Indeed. As usual, it's very seldom about whether words arranged in a certain 
> order result in useful meaning. Marketing into the Bellhead CxO suite is a 
> kind of meme laundering operation: "what can of horseshit can we seed into 
> golf course and country club conversations?"
> 
> Apparently NFV‎ is the latest thing the barnacles are pumping out. Somewhere, 
> behind hundreds of directors, senior managers and channel partner liaisons, 
> there's a shared cube in the back with three poor H-1Bs who are all going, 
> "Uh, dude, we've been doing this since 2004. Is that what they're calling it 
> now?"
> 
> --
> Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
> 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
> Atlanta, GA 30309
> United States
> 
> Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
> Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerry.
> 
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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Alex Balashov]

Frafos have been distributing their SBC as a downloadable VM image since at 
least 2013. I guess that makes them industry Visionaries and Unified 
Communications Thought Leaders since other folks are just coming to this 
realisation now. But they clearly lack the insight to see that a moderately 
interesting 3-minute conversation topic can, through marketing alchemy, be 
turned into a multibillion dollar, multi-year #Trend.

--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
Atlanta, GA 30309
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/

Sent from my BlackBerry.

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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Alex Balashov]

‎Right, it's an on-premise Cloud SBCaaS. Innovation knows no bounds.
‎
--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
Atlanta, GA 30309
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/

Sent from my BlackBerry.
  Original Message  
From: Carlos Alvarez
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 11:03
To: voiceops
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Fred Posner]

On 04/07/2016 10:56 AM, Matthew Crocker wrote:
> 
> NFV is all about containers and micro services.   It is unix all over
> again but in the cloud.  Small containerized functions that do a
> specific task.  Spun up in the cloud and linked together by an
> orchestration overlay.  Personally I think it is a good thing
> 
> 

"in the cloud" is like fingernails on a chalkboard.

Building anything that is only cloud based, for your independent
business, is like building a solution for nest using resolv.

Fred Posner
The Palner Group, Inc.
http://www.palner.com (web)
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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Carlos Alvarez]

In the early days of using the word "cloud," I ran into a seller of such
things who was trying to explain it to me as if I was new to computing.  I
said, "Yeah, I get it, just like when I used to admin a System/36 and
customers would pay for their compute time and storage.  Of course, I'm
old, and he'd never heard of a System/36.

Why did the PC revolution happen at all, I often wonder.

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:56 AM, Matthew Crocker <matt...@corp.crocker.com>
wrote:

>
> NFV is all about containers and micro services.   It is unix all over
> again but in the cloud.  Small containerized functions that do a specific
> task.  Spun up in the cloud and linked together by an orchestration
> overlay.  Personally I think it is a good thing
>
>
>
> —
>
> Matthew Crocker
> President - Crocker Communications, Inc.
> Managing Partner - Crocker Telecommunications, LLC
> E: matt...@corp.crocker.com
> E: matt...@crocker.com
>
>
> On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:42 AM, Alex Balashov <abalas...@evaristesys.com>
> wrote:
>
> Management and licencing are rather ancillary to any discussion of NFs.
>
> --
> Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
> 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
> Atlanta, GA 30309
> United States
>
> Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
> Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry.
> *From: *Pete Eisengrein
> *Sent: *Thursday, April 7, 2016 08:26
> *To: *Alex Balashov
> *Cc: *voiceops@voiceops.org
> *Subject: *Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC
>
> If it requires a bunch of configuration, I agree it is just V. But if
> there's an orchestration layer that informs all other systems of its
> presence, including management and licensing, without having to configure
> all that, then it is NFV. Now, whether the aforementioned vendors are
> actually doing this, that can be debated (and I'd be curious to hear
> people's options on it). They may just be doing V with a long-term vision
> of NFV, I don't know.
>
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Alex Balashov <abalas...@evaristesys.com>
> wrote:
>
>> No. That's not NFV. That's just... V.
>>
>> --
>> Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
>> 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
>> Atlanta, GA 30309
>> United States
>>
>> Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
>> Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry.
>> *From: *Pete Eisengrein
>> *Sent: *Thursday, April 7, 2016 07:26
>> *Cc: *voiceops@voiceops.org
>> *Subject: *Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC
>>
>> > my point was that they, of all
>>
>> > things, are a poor standard
>>
>> > bearer for the NFV marketing-
>>
>> > gasm.
>>
>>
>> With centralized licensing and the ability to scale resources when and
>> where you need them, I would argue they are the perfect device for the NFV
>> marketing-gasm (LOL).
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 11:08 PM, Alex Balashov <abalas...@evaristesys.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On 04/06/2016 10:54 PM, Ryan Delgrosso wrote:
>>>
>>> an SBC ... is a demarcation and control point between network
>>>> segments where you can inject interworking and business logic.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Absolutely, at >= Layer 5.
>>>
>>> If it's news to anyone here that you can virtualise applications,
>>> they've got some catching up to do.
>>>
>>> Anyway, my argument wasn't that SBCs serve no valid purposes. You've
>>> done a good job of outlining them. Instead, my point was that they, of all
>>> things, are a poor standard bearer for the NFV marketing-gasm.
>>>
>>> -- Alex
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
>>> 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
>>> Atlanta, GA 30309
>>> United States
>>>
>>> Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
>>> Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
>>> ___
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>>> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Matthew Crocker]

NFV is all about containers and micro services.   It is unix all over again but 
in the cloud.  Small containerized functions that do a specific task.  Spun up 
in the cloud and linked together by an orchestration overlay.  Personally I 
think it is a good thing



—

Matthew Crocker
President - Crocker Communications, Inc.
Managing Partner - Crocker Telecommunications, LLC
E: matt...@corp.crocker.com
E: matt...@crocker.com


> On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:42 AM, Alex Balashov <abalas...@evaristesys.com> wrote:
> 
> Management and licencing are rather ancillary to any discussion of NFs.
> 
> --
> Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
> 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
> Atlanta, GA 30309
> United States
> 
> Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
> Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerry.
> From: Pete Eisengrein
> Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 08:26
> To: Alex Balashov
> Cc: voiceops@voiceops.org
> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC
> 
> If it requires a bunch of configuration, I agree it is just V. But if there's 
> an orchestration layer that informs all other systems of its presence, 
> including management and licensing, without having to configure all that, 
> then it is NFV. Now, whether the aforementioned vendors are actually doing 
> this, that can be debated (and I'd be curious to hear people's options on 
> it). They may just be doing V with a long-term vision of NFV, I don't know.
> 
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Alex Balashov <abalas...@evaristesys.com 
> <mailto:abalas...@evaristesys.com>> wrote:
> No. That's not NFV. That's just... V.
> 
> --
> Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
> 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
> Atlanta, GA 30309
> United States
> 
> Tel: +1-800-250-5920 <tel:%2B1-800-250-5920> (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 
> <tel:%2B1-678-954-0671> (direct)
> Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/ <http://www.evaristesys.com/>, 
> http://www.csrpswitch.com/ <http://www.csrpswitch.com/>
> 
> Sent from my BlackBerry.
> From: Pete Eisengrein
> Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 07:26
> Cc: voiceops@voiceops.org <mailto:voiceops@voiceops.org>
> Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC
> 
> > my point was that they, of all
> 
> > things, are a poor standard
> 
> > bearer for the NFV marketing-
> 
> > gasm.
> 
>  
> With centralized licensing and the ability to scale resources when and where 
> you need them, I would argue they are the perfect device for the NFV 
> marketing-gasm (LOL).
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 11:08 PM, Alex Balashov <abalas...@evaristesys.com 
> <mailto:abalas...@evaristesys.com>> wrote:
> On 04/06/2016 10:54 PM, Ryan Delgrosso wrote:
> 
> an SBC ... is a demarcation and control point between network
> segments where you can inject interworking and business logic.
> 
> Absolutely, at >= Layer 5.
> 
> If it's news to anyone here that you can virtualise applications, they've got 
> some catching up to do.
> 
> Anyway, my argument wasn't that SBCs serve no valid purposes. You've done a 
> good job of outlining them. Instead, my point was that they, of all things, 
> are a poor standard bearer for the NFV marketing-gasm.
> 
> -- Alex
> 
> -- 
> Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
> 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
> Atlanta, GA 30309
> United States
> 
> Tel: +1-800-250-5920 <tel:%2B1-800-250-5920> (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 
> <tel:%2B1-678-954-0671> (direct)
> Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/ <http://www.evaristesys.com/>, 
> http://www.csrpswitch.com/ <http://www.csrpswitch.com/>
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Alex Balashov]

Indeed. As usual, it's very seldom about whether words arranged in a certain 
order result in useful meaning. Marketing into the Bellhead CxO suite is a kind 
of meme laundering operation: "what can of horseshit can we seed into golf 
course and country club conversations?"

Apparently NFV‎ is the latest thing the barnacles are pumping out. Somewhere, 
behind hundreds of directors, senior managers and channel partner liaisons, 
there's a shared cube in the back with three poor H-1Bs who are all going, "Uh, 
dude, we've been doing this since 2004. Is that what they're calling it now?"

--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
Atlanta, GA 30309
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/

Sent from my BlackBerry.

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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Dave Horton]

FWIW, I’ve used Sansay’s virtualized SBC — they provide a hardware appliance as 
well, which we are using in production, currently we are using their 
virtualized SBC in QA but am very happy with it.  With regard to licensing, 
Sansay does separate itself from most of the competition by offering a 
network-based licensing solution (i.e. pay for total licenses across your 
network, not per SBC).  This is great if you have a distributed network where 
subscribers ‘follow the sun’ to some degree.

Dave Horton
President, Beachdog Networks
da...@beachdognet.com
+1 508 308 4809

On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:42 AM, Alex Balashov <abalas...@evaristesys.com> wrote:

Management and licencing are rather ancillary to any discussion of NFs.

--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
Atlanta, GA 30309
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/

Sent from my BlackBerry.
From: Pete Eisengrein
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 08:26
To: Alex Balashov
Cc: voiceops@voiceops.org
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

If it requires a bunch of configuration, I agree it is just V. But if there's 
an orchestration layer that informs all other systems of its presence, 
including management and licensing, without having to configure all that, then 
it is NFV. Now, whether the aforementioned vendors are actually doing this, 
that can be debated (and I'd be curious to hear people's options on it). They 
may just be doing V with a long-term vision of NFV, I don't know.

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Alex Balashov <abalas...@evaristesys.com 
<mailto:abalas...@evaristesys.com>> wrote:
No. That's not NFV. That's just... V.

--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
Atlanta, GA 30309
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 <tel:%2B1-800-250-5920> (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 
<tel:%2B1-678-954-0671> (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/ <http://www.evaristesys.com/>, 
http://www.csrpswitch.com/ <http://www.csrpswitch.com/>

Sent from my BlackBerry.
From: Pete Eisengrein
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 07:26
Cc: voiceops@voiceops.org <mailto:voiceops@voiceops.org>
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

> my point was that they, of all

> things, are a poor standard

> bearer for the NFV marketing-

> gasm.

 
With centralized licensing and the ability to scale resources when and where 
you need them, I would argue they are the perfect device for the NFV 
marketing-gasm (LOL).


On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 11:08 PM, Alex Balashov <abalas...@evaristesys.com 
<mailto:abalas...@evaristesys.com>> wrote:
On 04/06/2016 10:54 PM, Ryan Delgrosso wrote:

an SBC ... is a demarcation and control point between network
segments where you can inject interworking and business logic.

Absolutely, at >= Layer 5.

If it's news to anyone here that you can virtualise applications, they've got 
some catching up to do.

Anyway, my argument wasn't that SBCs serve no valid purposes. You've done a 
good job of outlining them. Instead, my point was that they, of all things, are 
a poor standard bearer for the NFV marketing-gasm.

-- Alex

-- 
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
Atlanta, GA 30309
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 <tel:%2B1-800-250-5920> (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 
<tel:%2B1-678-954-0671> (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/ <http://www.evaristesys.com/>, 
http://www.csrpswitch.com/ <http://www.csrpswitch.com/>
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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Alex Balashov]

So, future-proof purchasing because the licence is for the essential content of 
the software rather than a superficially branded commodity server = NFV? That 
just sounds like V. 

There's not a single thing SBCs do that can be described as a network function 
in need of software generalisation.

--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
Atlanta, GA 30309
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/

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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Alex Balashov]

  Management and licencing are rather ancillary to any discussion of NFs.--Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700Atlanta, GA 30309United StatesTel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/Sent from my BlackBerry.From: Pete EisengreinSent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 08:26To: Alex BalashovCc: voiceops@voiceops.orgSubject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBCIf it requires a bunch of configuration, I agree it is just V. But if there's an orchestration layer that informs all other systems of its presence, including management and licensing, without having to configure all that, then it is NFV. Now, whether the aforementioned vendors are actually doing this, that can be debated (and I'd be curious to hear people's options on it). They may just be doing V with a long-term vision of NFV, I don't know.On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Alex Balashov <abalas...@evaristesys.com> wrote:  No. That's not NFV. That's just... V. --Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700Atlanta, GA 30309United StatesTel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/Sent from my BlackBerry.From: Pete EisengreinSent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 07:26Cc: voiceops@voiceops.orgSubject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC> my point was that they, of all 

> things, are a poor standard 

> bearer for the NFV marketing-

> gasm.

 

With centralized licensing and the ability to scale
resources when and where you need them, I would argue they are the perfect
device for the NFV marketing-gasm (LOL).On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 11:08 PM, Alex Balashov <abalas...@evaristesys.com> wrote:On 04/06/2016 10:54 PM, Ryan Delgrosso wrote:


an SBC ... is a demarcation and control point between network
segments where you can inject interworking and business logic.


Absolutely, at >= Layer 5.

If it's news to anyone here that you can virtualise applications, they've got some catching up to do.

Anyway, my argument wasn't that SBCs serve no valid purposes. You've done a good job of outlining them. Instead, my point was that they, of all things, are a poor standard bearer for the NFV marketing-gasm.

-- Alex

-- 
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
Atlanta, GA 30309
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Pete Eisengrein]

If it requires a bunch of configuration, I agree it is just V. But if
there's an orchestration layer that informs all other systems of its
presence, including management and licensing, without having to configure
all that, then it is NFV. Now, whether the aforementioned vendors are
actually doing this, that can be debated (and I'd be curious to hear
people's options on it). They may just be doing V with a long-term vision
of NFV, I don't know.

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Alex Balashov <abalas...@evaristesys.com>
wrote:

> No. That's not NFV. That's just... V.
>
> --
> Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
> 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
> Atlanta, GA 30309
> United States
>
> Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
> Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry.
> *From: *Pete Eisengrein
> *Sent: *Thursday, April 7, 2016 07:26
> *Cc: *voiceops@voiceops.org
> *Subject: *Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC
>
> > my point was that they, of all
>
> > things, are a poor standard
>
> > bearer for the NFV marketing-
>
> > gasm.
>
>
>
> With centralized licensing and the ability to scale resources when and
> where you need them, I would argue they are the perfect device for the NFV
> marketing-gasm (LOL).
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 11:08 PM, Alex Balashov <abalas...@evaristesys.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 04/06/2016 10:54 PM, Ryan Delgrosso wrote:
>>
>> an SBC ... is a demarcation and control point between network
>>> segments where you can inject interworking and business logic.
>>>
>>
>> Absolutely, at >= Layer 5.
>>
>> If it's news to anyone here that you can virtualise applications, they've
>> got some catching up to do.
>>
>> Anyway, my argument wasn't that SBCs serve no valid purposes. You've done
>> a good job of outlining them. Instead, my point was that they, of all
>> things, are a poor standard bearer for the NFV marketing-gasm.
>>
>> -- Alex
>>
>> --
>> Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
>> 1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
>> Atlanta, GA 30309
>> United States
>>
>> Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
>> Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
>> ___
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>> VoiceOps@voiceops.org
>> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/voiceops
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Alex Balashov]

  No. That's not NFV. That's just... V. --Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700Atlanta, GA 30309United StatesTel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/Sent from my BlackBerry.From: Pete EisengreinSent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 07:26Cc: voiceops@voiceops.orgSubject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC> my point was that they, of all 

> things, are a poor standard 

> bearer for the NFV marketing-

> gasm.

 

With centralized licensing and the ability to scale
resources when and where you need them, I would argue they are the perfect
device for the NFV marketing-gasm (LOL).On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 11:08 PM, Alex Balashov <abalas...@evaristesys.com> wrote:On 04/06/2016 10:54 PM, Ryan Delgrosso wrote:


an SBC ... is a demarcation and control point between network
segments where you can inject interworking and business logic.


Absolutely, at >= Layer 5.

If it's news to anyone here that you can virtualise applications, they've got some catching up to do.

Anyway, my argument wasn't that SBCs serve no valid purposes. You've done a good job of outlining them. Instead, my point was that they, of all things, are a poor standard bearer for the NFV marketing-gasm.

-- Alex

-- 
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
Atlanta, GA 30309
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Nathan Anderson]

LOL! +1

Reminds me of Larry Ellison's now infamous rant against the use of the 
"nonsense" marketing term "cloud computing".

"All that 'cloud' is is computers in a network, in terms of technology.  Now in 
terms of *business model*, you can say 'oh, it's rental', and this is also very 
interesting, this notion of rental.  All Salesforce.com was, before they were 
'cloud computing', they were, uh, software-as-a-service [SaaS].  And then they 
became 'cloud computing', because SaaS...well, it's the same reason Chanel last 
year was fuchsia, and this year it's kind of puce.  I mean, our industry is so 
bizarre: they just change a term, and they think they've invented technology!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmrxN3GWHpM#t=2685
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmrxN3GWHpM#t=4470

"That's gold, Jerry!  Gold!"

-- Nathan

-Original Message-
From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-boun...@voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Alex Balashov
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2016 6:45 PM
To: voiceops@voiceops.org
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

So, it's news to the Bellhead world that most "SBCs" run on commodity 
pizza boxes & OSs that are branded by the vendor and resold at large 
markups, and that the software can be separated from the hardware and 
executed on other pizza boxes, and, indeed, inside VMs? And they have a 
whole buzzword for this?

-- 
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
Atlanta, GA 30309
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Ryan Delgrosso]

It is unfortunately the element in the network with the shortest service 
lifecycle so the most likely to come under scrutiny for replacement. For 
ex my original core metaswitch I recently phased out survived 3 
generations of SBC's. Each generation came at not insignificant hardware 
cost.


While you say it may be a poor standard bearer it is a lever by which 
solution vendors can shoe-horn their whole NFV ecosystem into the 
carrier from the edge inward with some promise of a future-proofed 
purchase (in the form of licensing).


On 4/6/2016 8:08 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:

On 04/06/2016 10:54 PM, Ryan Delgrosso wrote:


an SBC ... is a demarcation and control point between network
segments where you can inject interworking and business logic.


Absolutely, at >= Layer 5.

If it's news to anyone here that you can virtualise applications, 
they've got some catching up to do.


Anyway, my argument wasn't that SBCs serve no valid purposes. You've 
done a good job of outlining them. Instead, my point was that they, of 
all things, are a poor standard bearer for the NFV marketing-gasm.


-- Alex



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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Alex Balashov]

On 04/06/2016 10:54 PM, Ryan Delgrosso wrote:


an SBC ... is a demarcation and control point between network
segments where you can inject interworking and business logic.


Absolutely, at >= Layer 5.

If it's news to anyone here that you can virtualise applications, 
they've got some catching up to do.


Anyway, my argument wasn't that SBCs serve no valid purposes. You've 
done a good job of outlining them. Instead, my point was that they, of 
all things, are a poor standard bearer for the NFV marketing-gasm.


-- Alex

--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
Atlanta, GA 30309
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Ryan Delgrosso]

I'm not sure I share your narrow view of what an SBC is and the role it 
plays in modern network architecture.


There is absolutely a subset of uses for an SBC that fit perfectly into 
the box you have outlined but in the broader sense it is a demarcation 
and control point between network segments where you can inject 
interworking and business logic.


For example:

 * Crypto offload  - softswitches spending cycles on media crypto is
   wasteful and occasionally not possible
 * Transcoding  - G711 is a anchor we wear around our necks, and the
   lack of a SINGLE clear successor means transcoding is a necessity, I
   wont even open the can of worms that is faxing but as im sure anyone
   who has had the displeasure of troubleshooting a T38 negotiation
   with a rogue media gateway 2 carrier hops from you can tell you,
   just being able to transcode and make both sides happy is the path
   to a long and serene life as a network operator.
   http://i.imgur.com/BB4T3RW.png
 * CALEA taps
 * IPV4/IPV6 interworking - to my knowledge most of the CPE and
   commercial elements havent fully gotten on the V6 bandwagon but
   anyone dealing with mobile voice knows this reality
 * Media control / monitoring - MOS monitoring / QOS enforcement
 * Security services - sanitizing SIP traffic so you dont spend
   softswitch cycles on answering free-floating internet hostility
 * Abstraction and load balancing
 * Fraud mitigation - I have written whole papers on this so Ill save
   the pontification on this topic


And that is beyond the massive subset of problems I have solved using 
the SBC as a swiss army knife to bludgeon success into scenarios that 
would otherwise be at an impasse because the elements on either side of 
it did not belong to me or were not able to have their native behavior 
altered for various rea$on$.


An SBC is the Thneed of the modern communications network 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7XA0h6HeOw




On 4/6/2016 7:16 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:
That's just it. SBCs are a terrible example of "NFV" because SBCs do 
not actually perform a "network function" of the sort that begs to be 
decoupled and abstracted in the way that NFV and SDN envisions, like 
software-defined switches and routers. The idea that the SBC is a kind 
of "voice firewall" is a fiction pushed by the marketing departments 
of SBC vendors.


What is an SBC? It's a SIP B2BUA with some sort of provisioning and 
management interface. If you're lucky, there are some ASICs or 
kernel-mode crypto, transcoding and/or packet forwarding functions. 
It's an application-layer construct, a giant softphone touted as a 
condom that must go over innocent and vulnerable "softswitches". It's 
not a "network" element, but it looks much better on Visio diagrams to 
depict it as one.


On 04/06/2016 09:58 PM, Ryan Delgrosso wrote:


They have more than a buzzword for this, its a whole movement.

Realistically NFV encompasses more than just raw virtualization its also
elastic capacity and the orchestration layer to manage it. The only
problem is most vendors have only accomplished the virtualization part
and are still sorting out the orchestration while trumpeting NFV.




On 4/6/2016 6:45 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:

So, it's news to the Bellhead world that most "SBCs" run on commodity
pizza boxes & OSs that are branded by the vendor and resold at large
markups, and that the software can be separated from the hardware and
executed on other pizza boxes, and, indeed, inside VMs? And they have
a whole buzzword for this?



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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Moy Amiga]

Me too

+1 on Sansay. Great team & product.
El abr. 6, 2016 9:17 PM, "Peter E"  escribió:

> Agree regarding NFV. It's a pretty big topic.
>
> Oracle (Acme) is playing catch-up but also has a solution now. Haven't
> played with it (or Somus, Sansay) yet so I can't render an opinion.
>
> On Apr 6, 2016, at 21:58, Ryan Delgrosso  wrote:
>
> They have more than a buzzword for this, its a whole movement.
>
> Realistically NFV encompasses more than just raw virtualization its also
> elastic capacity and the orchestration layer to manage it. The only problem
> is most vendors have only accomplished the virtualization part and are
> still sorting out the orchestration while trumpeting NFV.
>
>
>
>
> > On 4/6/2016 6:45 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:
> > So, it's news to the Bellhead world that most "SBCs" run on commodity
> pizza boxes & OSs that are branded by the vendor and resold at large
> markups, and that the software can be separated from the hardware and
> executed on other pizza boxes, and, indeed, inside VMs? And they have a
> whole buzzword for this?
>
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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Peter E]

Agree regarding NFV. It's a pretty big topic.

Oracle (Acme) is playing catch-up but also has a solution now. Haven't played 
with it (or Somus, Sansay) yet so I can't render an opinion.

On Apr 6, 2016, at 21:58, Ryan Delgrosso  wrote:

They have more than a buzzword for this, its a whole movement.

Realistically NFV encompasses more than just raw virtualization its also 
elastic capacity and the orchestration layer to manage it. The only problem is 
most vendors have only accomplished the virtualization part and are still 
sorting out the orchestration while trumpeting NFV.




> On 4/6/2016 6:45 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:
> So, it's news to the Bellhead world that most "SBCs" run on commodity pizza 
> boxes & OSs that are branded by the vendor and resold at large markups, and 
> that the software can be separated from the hardware and executed on other 
> pizza boxes, and, indeed, inside VMs? And they have a whole buzzword for this?

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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Alex Balashov]

That's just it. SBCs are a terrible example of "NFV" because SBCs do not 
actually perform a "network function" of the sort that begs to be 
decoupled and abstracted in the way that NFV and SDN envisions, like 
software-defined switches and routers. The idea that the SBC is a kind 
of "voice firewall" is a fiction pushed by the marketing departments of 
SBC vendors.


What is an SBC? It's a SIP B2BUA with some sort of provisioning and 
management interface. If you're lucky, there are some ASICs or 
kernel-mode crypto, transcoding and/or packet forwarding functions. It's 
an application-layer construct, a giant softphone touted as a condom 
that must go over innocent and vulnerable "softswitches". It's not a 
"network" element, but it looks much better on Visio diagrams to depict 
it as one.


On 04/06/2016 09:58 PM, Ryan Delgrosso wrote:


They have more than a buzzword for this, its a whole movement.

Realistically NFV encompasses more than just raw virtualization its also
elastic capacity and the orchestration layer to manage it. The only
problem is most vendors have only accomplished the virtualization part
and are still sorting out the orchestration while trumpeting NFV.




On 4/6/2016 6:45 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:

So, it's news to the Bellhead world that most "SBCs" run on commodity
pizza boxes & OSs that are branded by the vendor and resold at large
markups, and that the software can be separated from the hardware and
executed on other pizza boxes, and, indeed, inside VMs? And they have
a whole buzzword for this?



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--
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
Atlanta, GA 30309
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Ryan Delgrosso]

They have more than a buzzword for this, its a whole movement.

Realistically NFV encompasses more than just raw virtualization its also 
elastic capacity and the orchestration layer to manage it. The only 
problem is most vendors have only accomplished the virtualization part 
and are still sorting out the orchestration while trumpeting NFV.





On 4/6/2016 6:45 PM, Alex Balashov wrote:
So, it's news to the Bellhead world that most "SBCs" run on commodity 
pizza boxes & OSs that are branded by the vendor and resold at large 
markups, and that the software can be separated from the hardware and 
executed on other pizza boxes, and, indeed, inside VMs? And they have 
a whole buzzword for this?




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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Ryan Finnesey]

I want to build an appliance that we would deploy on the customer perm that 
would run on  Hyper-V and run 4 Windows VM and a  Virtualized SBC.  

-Original Message-
From: VoiceOps [mailto:voiceops-boun...@voiceops.org] On Behalf Of Alex Balashov
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 9:45 PM
To: voiceops@voiceops.org
Subject: Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

So, it's news to the Bellhead world that most "SBCs" run on commodity pizza 
boxes & OSs that are branded by the vendor and resold at large markups, and 
that the software can be separated from the hardware and executed on other 
pizza boxes, and, indeed, inside VMs? And they have a whole buzzword for this?

-- 
Alex Balashov | Principal | Evariste Systems LLC
1447 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 700
Atlanta, GA 30309
United States

Tel: +1-800-250-5920 (toll-free) / +1-678-954-0671 (direct)
Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/, http://www.csrpswitch.com/
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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Colin Brown]

+1 on Sansay. Great team & product.

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016, Calvin Ellison 
wrote:

> I suggest contacting Sansay and asking what's new; I think they may be
> onto this already.
>
>
>> NFV is unquestionably the way forward.
>>
>>
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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Calvin Ellison]

I suggest contacting Sansay and asking what's new; I think they may be onto
this already.


> NFV is unquestionably the way forward.
>
>
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Re: [VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Ryan Delgrosso]

So far the only things keeping me from abandoning hardware SBC's are 
crypto and transcoding.


NFV is unquestionably the way forward.

On 4/6/2016 6:11 PM, Ryan Finnesey wrote:

Has any more worked with products similar to 
http://www.sonus.net/products/session-border-controllers/virtualized-sbc-swe

What has your experience been?

Cheers
Ryan

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[VoiceOps] Virtualized SBC

[Ryan Finnesey]

Has any more worked with products similar to 
http://www.sonus.net/products/session-border-controllers/virtualized-sbc-swe

What has your experience been?

Cheers
Ryan

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