Re: Fred's Ancient Patents
Pluging the patent number into "Search Term 1" brings up the patents that reference that number. http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/search-bool.html 3,049,690 (1962) 10 references 3,136,593 (1964) 4 references 3,170,270 (1965) 1 references 3,751,869(1973) 4 references 3,782,352 (1974) 5 references 3,801,446 (1974) 6 references 3,943,889(1976) 13 references OTOH any before 1976 require the TIFF Reader. http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/srchnum.htm
Re: Einstein Frequency/Temperature Photon-Phonon Heterodyne Action
Michael Foster wrote: I suppose I'll have to go back and read your original posts on this subject, but if your idea depends on stimulated Brillouin scattering, there would be a problem of reaching a threshold, as SBS doesn't happen at low power densities. A high power argon- mercury arc with a quartz envelope might do the trick. Most of those low power "fluorescent" lights have an ordinary glass tube, thus.suppressing all of the short UV. I used the word "fluorescent" loosely in referring to the 4 watt clear quartz UV lamps used for EPROM erasers. I suggested using a GE A-H6 1,000 watthigh pressure quartz Hg lamp that puts out 31 watts of UV below 280 nanometers. 840 volts at 1.4 amps into a volume about 0.3 centimeters diameter x 8 centimeters length. (about 0.6 cm^3 giving about 1.6 kilowatts/cm^3) If nothing else the film boiling of high purity H2O or D2O around the bulb surface should mimic acoustic- induced cavitation bubble collapse,especially if the bulb is in a cylindrical cavity. Have I missed your whole concept here? Nope, just a follow-up post. :-) Fred
Re: Not only SCIENCE but also COLD FUSION...
Frank.. Shades of my sainted grandmother, Blanche Louise Townley, who had the gift. Like I was sitting at her knee and listening to speech long gone. Never , ever attempt to beard an Englishman using his language. One will wind up dangling more than participles. I have spent some thoughtful time in thinking of your magnificent obsession dealing with B*a and the internal pressure of concrete. Sad that the Glen Canyon cavitation incident was left to explain itself. Richard - Original Message - From: Grimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 11:07 PM Subject: Re: Not only SCIENCE but also COLD FUSION... At 09:16 pm 15/12/2005 -0500, Hohlraum wrote: You have a magnificent obsession, Mr. Grimer. And your analogy has the ring of truth. I imagine the movement of the electron between quantum levels causing sound waves in the Beta-atmosphere . . . expressed as light. The quote below reminds me of the Bard of Avon. But, soft! what light through yonder window breaks? It is the east, and Juliet is the sun. Arise, fair sun, and kill the envious moon, Who is already sick and pale with grief, Ironically, the sun is cold fusion and the moon is hot fusion and Juliet is the Truth. Then again, your ideas *do* imply we are looking at things the wrong way. Pity Shakespeare didn't write in Latin, huh? Thereby hangs a tale, Err...well, a Literary Anecdote ;-) After the christening of one of Ben Jonson's children, the proud father - noticing Shakespeare (the child's godfather) engrossed in thought - asked him what was wrong. Shakespeare replied that, having long wondered what to offer as a christening present, he had just now decided: I'll give him a dozen good latten spoons, he declared, and thou shalt translate them. During the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, latten (a yellow metal similar to brass) was commonly used in the manufacture of household implements; the pun also plays upon the alchemists' endeavors to translate base metals into yellow gold. Though likely apocryphal, this story neatly illustrates the perceived difference between the learned Ben and the un-Latined Shakespeare and is not inappropriate for current efforts to translate water into black gold. Hohlraum - A metal container that holds a ICF capsule. By selecting a high-atomic- weight metal like lead, gold, or tantalum, radiation energy has difficulty penetrating into the metal, and instead primarily heats the inside surface of the hohlraum. This in turn heats the outside surface of the capsule, which sees the hot hohlraum walls. === Frank
Re: Correa attacks Wikipedia
Vo, Jed, Wikipedia is a model of free speech (not free screech) and democracy but I guess what we really mean by free speech is *informed* free speech and what we really mean by democracy is an educated populous (adult, not a-dolt), non salacious media (not power without responsibility) and trustworthy leaders. Yes, it is a good idea to consult leaders in the field before anything is placed on the site. Inaccurate writing should be viewed as defamation and clamping down on that is not censorship or crying foul when one doesn't get one's way but human decency. Incidentally you posted Schwinger's paper a few months ago with an early insight into CF and it was very interesting to see how a rational mind goes about tackling a difficult problem and putting delimiters on it. It should be more known. Regards, Remi. Re: Correa attacks Wikipedia Jed Rothwell Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:49:53 -0800 Harry Veeder wrote: Of course these are early days, and competitors to wikipedia may emerge as it did with browsers. I expect the people at Wikipedia will welcome this. They would probably agree that their model does not work for all subjects. We need a variety of different online encyclopedias, some of them completely open to the public -- that anyone can change -- and others more restricted. The one size fits all model is inadequate. We also need sites such as LENR-CANR.org where authors publish papers and represent their own points of view and no one else's. Wikipedia itself may become more sophisticated and it may implement different levels for different kinds of articles. As I said in the discussion section for the cold fusion article, if they want experts to write, they will have to promise those experts that their work will not be trashed. The work might be changed, but the expert author will be consulted, and if he objects his objections will be reviewed by other experts. - Jed ... Website http://luna.bton.ac.uk/~roc1 ...
Re: Correa attacks Wikipedia
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wikipedia is a model of free speech (not free screech) and democracy but I guess what we really mean by free speech is *informed* free speech . . . Why do you call it a model? In Wikipedia, anything goes. Anyone can post any comment, anonymously. This is an invitation to trolling and character assassination. The article on cold fusion is full of skeptical nonsense and unfounded opinion. At Amazon.com they used to allow anonymous reviews of books. They abolished the practice after they found out the large number of glowing reviews were written by the authors or their friends, and many attacks were written by literary rivals. They should have realized that would happen. See: http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,14173,1271358,00.html I think that a serious online encyclopedia will have to be based on some compromise between unfettered unregulated open access and Encyclopaedia Britannica style the experts know best authoritarianism. Incidentally you posted Schwinger's paper a few months ago with an early insight into CF . . . Do you mean the ICCF1 paper? I uploaded it to: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/SchwingerJnuclearene.pdf - Jed
Re: Not only SCIENCE but also COLD FUSION...
At 08:42 am 16/12/2005 -0600, Richard wrote: Frank... I have spent some thoughtful time in thinking of your magnificent obsession dealing with B*a and the internal pressure of concrete. Sad that the Glen Canyon cavitation incident was left to explain itself. The interesting thing about Glen Canyon is that the engineers didn't bother with the physics. They just thought up an ingenious way to fix the problem = Contractors blast away damaged concrete, fix tunnel linings and fill holes with 3,000 cubic yards of concrete. Engineers, meanwhile, begin their own race to retrofit the dam with aeration slots, a new technology that introduces small amounts of air into rushing water, cushioning the blow of imploding vapor cavities. The plan works. The '84 runoff sets more records, but the spillways show no sign of cavitation. This success leads the Bureau of Reclamation to retrofit aerators to two other large dams, Hoover and Blue Mesa. It was a defining moment in dam design, says Burgi. The world was watching how we were going to solve this problem. As it turns out, the world did more than watch -- aeration slots are now standard from the Tarbela Dam in Pakistan to the Infiernillo Dam in Mexico. = In effect, they fed the Beta-atmosphere with Alpha-atmosphere cracks thereby virtually annihilating the water's tensile strength. It is difficult for engineers to appreciate that it is not the external stress on a material that leads to failure but the difference between the external and the internal stress. It is even more difficult for physicists and chemists to understand that --- . as our work on concrete showed the important thing isn't the external pressure but the difference in pressure between the inside and the outside. One can achieve this difference, either by increasing the external pressure, the numerator pressure, with an atomic fission bomb (hot fusion), or by decreasing the internal pressure, the denominator pressure, by 3D Casimir Plate expansion - (cold fusion) --- ...but they will - eventually - when they realise they have things inside out. 8-) Frank
RE: Correa attacks Wikipedia
Jed, Yes you are correct, always a fine balance between justice and progress and the forces of anarchy. Yes that was the paper I read. I believe it is stuff of that quality that is going to attract young research fellows to the subject. I'm sorry if my responses get a little patchy from now on as it is the end of the year and technically the university is meant to be closing. I just want to put my feet up for a bit anyway. Regards, Remi. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jed Rothwell Sent: 16 December 2005 15:24 To: vortex-L@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Correa attacks Wikipedia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wikipedia is a model of free speech (not free screech) and democracy but I guess what we really mean by free speech is *informed* free speech . . . Why do you call it a model? In Wikipedia, anything goes. Anyone can post any comment, anonymously. This is an invitation to trolling and character assassination. The article on cold fusion is full of skeptical nonsense and unfounded opinion. At Amazon.com they used to allow anonymous reviews of books. They abolished the practice after they found out the large number of glowing reviews were written by the authors or their friends, and many attacks were written by literary rivals. They should have realized that would happen. See: http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,14173,1271358,00.html I think that a serious online encyclopedia will have to be based on some compromise between unfettered unregulated open access and Encyclopaedia Britannica style the experts know best authoritarianism. Incidentally you posted Schwinger's paper a few months ago with an early insight into CF . . . Do you mean the ICCF1 paper? I uploaded it to: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/SchwingerJnuclearene.pdf - Jed
Fire from Water DVD is available
The video published by Infinite Energy, Cold Fusion: Fire from Water is now available on DVD. I found it on Netflix. (I am tempted to give it a five-star review but I am a co-author so I shouldn't.) It is published by a weird company here: http://www.ufotv.com I am not thrilled to see the DVD associated with this company, but I am glad it is available on DVD. People should see this, because it includes serious interviews with several leading cold fusion researchers, and some rare glimpses of the experiments. - Jed
Re: Fire from Water DVD is available
If it is true that a person is known by the friends he keeps, we in cold fusion are in really great company on this website. There a person can find information about most of the greatest, but rejected discoveries ever made by man. These are discoveries so profound that most people simply can not accept their reality. This fact alone gives cold fusion status even though it denies us temporary support. But, as always has been true, reality eventually wins over stubborn skepticism. Only patience and a long life are required. Regards, Ed Jed Rothwell wrote: The video published by Infinite Energy, Cold Fusion: Fire from Water is now available on DVD. I found it on Netflix. (I am tempted to give it a five-star review but I am a co-author so I shouldn't.) It is published by a weird company here: http://www.ufotv.com I am not thrilled to see the DVD associated with this company, but I am glad it is available on DVD. People should see this, because it includes serious interviews with several leading cold fusion researchers, and some rare glimpses of the experiments. - Jed
Productive Sequestering
http://www.impactlab.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=6827 The energy industry has found a new way to dispose of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide: pump it back into the underground oil reservoirs from whence much of it came. Not only does the project dispose of the nasty CO2, the pressure from the gas helps to extract more oil. ___ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com
RE: Productive Sequestering
Yep. There is a CO2 pipeline running from CO2 wells in northeastern New Mexico to the Permian Basin oil wells in southeastern NM and west Texas for enhanced oil extraction that has been in use for twenty years or so. Fred hohlraum wrote, http://www.impactlab.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=6827 The energy industry has found a new way to dispose of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide: pump it back into the underground oil reservoirs from whence much of it came. Not only does the project dispose of the nasty CO2, the pressure from the gas helps to extract more oil. ___ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com
ZPE, Naked Women and UFOs
I guess the axiom of any publicity is good pubicity applies in this Hustler interview of Dr. Steven Greer: http://www.disclosureproject.org/bassiorinterview.htm ___ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com
Re: ZPE, Naked Women and UFOs
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess the axiom of any publicity is good pubicity applies in this Hustler interview of Dr. Steven Greer: Ed Storms does not mind cold fusion being associated with ufotv.com, but he would probably draw the line at this! - Jed
Re: Exploding Wires in D2O, Simulates Cavitation Bubble Collapse?
Fred wrote: Things might get really interesting if Pd wires are exploded in a 200-400 atmosphere pressure D2 gas. Sounds like a really low cost (ahem) thermo- nuclear device. Or would you need to add a dash of tritium? M. ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web!
Re: Naked Man No ZPE/Hot Water
Pipe Problem Tied to Naked Man in Basement From Associated PressDecember 15, 2005 6:03 PM EST SPOKANE, Wash. - A plumbing problem at a Spokane home turned out to be a naked man. Police say a woman who thought she was having a problem with water pipes beneath the floor called the Water Department. Employees found the basement barricaded, and when they determined there was someone behind the door, they called police. Police broke through the door, found the naked man and took him into custody. They searched the basement but found no clothing for the man. They also found that a pipe had been broken and repaired. The 36-year-old was booked into jail for investigation of burglary.
FW: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday December 16, 2005
[Original Message] From: What's New [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 12/16/2005 7:46:51 PM Subject: [BOBPARKS-WHATSNEW] What's New Friday December 16, 2005 WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 16 Dec 05 Washington, DC 1. SPACE DEVELOPMENT: WILL SIX FLAGS OVER THE MOON BE NEXT? The big news this week is that New Mexico is building the first commercial spaceport. British entrepreneur Richard Branson says his Virgin Galactic Airline will use the spaceport to launch tourists on suborbital flights beginning in 2008. A $200,000 ticket will buy you five minutes of weightlessness, with no extra charge for space sickness. With America's once-proud space program hard-put to support a crew of only two, wandering lost in the cavernous ISS, the future in space seems to be theme parks. According to China Daily, even the newest space-faring power wants some of the theme park action. Guiyang, capital of Guizhou Province, said to have been visited by a UFO in 1994, received $20M from a Taiwan-based company for a UFO research center. 2. CLONE SCANDAL: KOREAN SCIENTIST REPORTEDLY ADMITS FABRICATION. The goal of treating people with tissues cloned from their own stem cells had seemed almost in reach. In May, Woo Suk Hwang and his colleagues reported in Science that they had cloned stem cells from 11 patients. Hwang became an international celebrity and a Korean hero. Then there were reports that women who worked in his lab had been pressured to donate eggs for the experiment. Last month, an American collaborator asked that his name be taken off the paper citing ethical violations. Now the work seems to be unraveling completely, with Hwang reportedly admitting that critical parts of the discovery had been fabricated. 3. GHOST STORY: WHILE WE'RE ON THE SUBJECT OF SCIENTIFIC ETHICS. On Tuesday, a front-page article in the Wall Street Journal, by Staff Reporter Anna Wilde Mathews, dealt with publication of ghost-written papers in major medical journals. The papers bear the names of academic researchers, who presumably agree with the articles. The intent, however, is not to disseminate knowledge, but to promote the products of the company that paid to have it written. We expel students who turn in ghost-written papers. WN has reported before on unhealthy ties of NIH scientists to drug companies, http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN04/wn070904.html . Something like it seems to be going on with academic scientists. 4. EVOLUTION: THINGS ARE A LITTLE STICKY IN COBB COUNTY, GEORGIA. Yesterday, a federal appeals court panel seemed to some observers to be critical of the ruling requiring removal of a sticker from biology texts http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN05/wn011405.html . It read: This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered. The sticker was not factually inaccurate. The attorney who argued the case against the stickers at last years trial remarked admitted that, I'm more worried than I was when I walked in this morning. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. Opinions are the author's and not necessarily shared by the University of Maryland, but they should be. --- Archives of What's New can be found at http://www.bobpark.org What's New is moving to a different listserver and our subscription process has changed. To change your subscription status please visit this link: http://listserv.umd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=bobparks-whatsnewA=1
Re: Correa attacks Wikipedia
On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vo, Jed, Wikipedia is a model of free speech (not free screech) and democracy but I guess what we really mean by free speech is *informed* free speech and what we really mean by democracy is an educated populous (adult, not a-dolt), non salacious media (not power without responsibility) and trustworthy leaders. But Wikipedia is an experiment in *anonymous* free speech, where abusive people with mild mental problems cannot be blocked, and where all users can duck responsibility. It's ike Usenet, or like a call-in radio show where the callers have no names and they all disguise their voices. That type of setup has major consequences (e.g. the difference between sci.physics.fusion versus vortex-L.) If Wikipedia started out using the simple email-verified registration which nearly all WWW forums use to exclude trolls/flamers/spammers, it would be a very different resource today. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-789-0775unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: Productive Sequestering
only gets rid of it for so long though. On 12/16/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.impactlab.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=6827 The energy industry has found a new way to dispose of the greenhousegas carbon dioxide: pump it back into the underground oil reservoirsfrom whence much of it came.Not only does the project dispose of the nasty CO2, the pressure from the gas helps to extract more oil. ___Try the New Netscape Mail Today!Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com-- Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to writeVoltaire
Re: Correa attacks Wikipedia
Yep, one hoaxster 'fessed up recently: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002677060_wiki11.html http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051211-5739.html -Original Message- From: William Beaty But Wikipedia is an experiment in *anonymous* free speech, where abusive people with mild mental problems cannot be blocked, and where all users can duck responsibility. ___ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com
Re: Correa attacks Wikipedia
William Beaty wrote: But Wikipedia is an experiment in *anonymous* free speech, where abusive people with mild mental problems cannot be blocked . . . Actually, the editors can block people, and they have done so occasionally. I suppose the offenders can simply register a new name. If Wikipedia started out using the simple email-verified registration which nearly all WWW forums use to exclude trolls/flamers/spammers, it would be a very different resource today. Well, they might change to that model. They seem like smart people, who are willing to try new things. After the recent scandal they reduced the editing capabilities of anonymous contributors. I think they said that anonymous contributors can no longer initiate articles or sections. Against my better judgment, I added some stuff to the cold fusion article today, including three links to introductions to the subject in different languages. Some anonymous person promptly chopped them out. I wrote to him/her/it: Dear Anonymous Person: Why were these [links] moved? Did you move them to the other versions of Wikipedia? Is there there some kind of policy at Wikipedia banning non-English articles? If there is such a policy, kindly point it out to me. If not, let us put the links back. Also, I would appreciate it if you would sign your work in future. . . . - Jed
Re: Productive Sequestering
leaking pen wrote: only gets rid of it for so long though. Why? Does it gradually leak out of the underground reservoir? - Jed
Re: Productive Sequestering
lesse... gas, stone. you tell me? its going to end up in any water source that runs through it, bubling out, bubbling through the small holes in the rock, and eventually be released enmasse as holes open up due to geological activity. On 12/16/05, Jed Rothwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: leaking pen wrote:only gets rid of it for so long though.Why? Does it gradually leak out of the underground reservoir? - Jed-- Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to writeVoltaire
Re: Correa attacks Wikipedia
Bill B's got a good point. This is one of the aspects which makes Vortex such a valuable group. Most people are willing to identify themselves and stand behind their words. Steve At 02:09 PM 12/16/2005, you wrote: Yep, one hoaxster 'fessed up recently: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002677060_wiki11.html http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051211-5739.html -Original Message- From: William Beaty But Wikipedia is an experiment in *anonymous* free speech, where abusive people with mild mental problems cannot be blocked, and where all users can duck responsibility. ___ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com
Re: Productive Sequestering
leaking pen wrote: lesse... gas, stone. you tell me? If we are talking about oil wells, then they typically also hold natural gas which has been trapped for millions of years. The salt dome or whatever it is that traps the liquid and gas is punctured by the drill, and when they are under great pressure they come spurting out. But that seldom happens, and most of the gas remains underground. They seal the well when they are finished. I suppose the CO2 would stay down there for millions of years. Now if you were to pump CO2 under some randomly chosen spot in the ground, I suppose it would quickly percolate out. Also, I suppose a lot of it comes out mixed with the natural gas and oil. Nowadays they force oil out by pumping water into wells, and it takes a lot of energy to separate the water from the oil. - Jed
Re: Correa attacks Wikipedia
Others believe the Logos should be self-sustaining. Or as Mr. Grimer iterated *In principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum* (bringing us back off topic ;-) -Original Message- From: Steven Krivit Bill B's got a good point. This is one of the aspects which makes Vortex such a valuable group. Most people are willing to identify themselves and stand behind their words. ___ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com
Re: Correa attacks Wikipedia
--- William Beaty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If Wikipedia started out using the simple email-verified registration which nearly all WWW forums use to exclude trolls/flamers/spammers, it would be a very different resource today. There are two anonymizing utilities, Tor and Privoxy, which can be used together for anonymous surfing with a web browser. that includes signing up to webmail sites like yahoo.com and then subscribing to a list such as Wikipedia, or even Vortex. Since you have a real email address, you can confirm a subscription if required to do so, but neither the webmail site nor the list you are subscribing to knows your real IP. At the moment then, requiring an email address to be confirmed may not mean that the subscriber can be traced. I have the feeling that won't last, because more of the webmail sites are requiring that Java or Javascript be turned on in the browser before allowing you to sign up. Doing that lets the site to get past the protection of Tor and Privoxy and find out your real IP. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Arata's gas-loaded double-structured cathode
- Original Message - From: Stephen A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Arata's gas-loaded double-structured cathode Cool paper! Do you know if the effect is as reproducible as it sounds? The paper makes it sounds like he just throws the switch, and the D2 with Pd reactor performs on demand. In that way, it sounds almost like Patterson's bead cells, but without the black magic required to make the special beads. Arata cathodes were used by Mike McKubre at SRI a few years ago. My understanding is that McKubre attempted to fabricate the cathodes himself [in SRI's facilities] withou success. It is no accident that Arata's colleague was head of the metallurgy department at the university. Palladium is notoriously difficult to machine and weld. Making bidder cathodes is interesting, and the technique of fabrication could probably be mastered. Note that fundamentally it is a technique of gas loading of extremely fractured particulate surfaces. The particles are only a few hundred atoms in any dimension. Mike Carrell
Arata errata
- Original Message - From: Mike Carrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 10:04 PM Subject: Re: Arata's gas-loaded double-structured cathode Oops: I said bidder cathodes instead of bigger cathodes Mike Carrell
Re: Correa attacks Wikipedia
On Fri, 16 Dec 2005, Steven Krivit wrote: Bill B's got a good point. This is one of the aspects which makes Vortex such a valuable group. Most people are willing to identify themselves and stand behind their words. In observing (or fighting with) flamer types over the years, I noticed that one of the major characteristics that reliably defines flamer is... anonymity! Serious people give their real names (and often provide a message sig with personal website, city, etc.) Immature or abusive people use handles. I've seen a number of forums which harness this effect to improve their online community: requiring the use of real names, or at the very least requiring that users have a real email address (not free mail such as yahoo, etc.) In the online world, if your real name is like your face, then a handle is like wearing a mask. In realworld society if you're out shopping or walking down the street (or waiting in a bank,) how do you respond to people who walk in wearing masks? What would you think of a person who spent all their time wearing a mask? How about an entire town where the residents traditionally wear masks all the time? Online handles are really very weird. We got used to them, and they were a novelty at first. But whenever a community arises where mask-wearing is perfectly acceptable, then personal responsibility for our actions is disrupted, and that community seems to automatically attract all the bad parts of Marti Gras. With Wikipedia, if the point is to prevent famous experts with recognizable names from being taken more seriously than others, then they need to do the anonymity thing differently. Let people wear masks, but connect them permanently to the SAME masks, perhaps by requiring real names/addresses/emails during registration, but allowing other users to only see the online username/handle. That way the playing field is leveled, yet also you *are* your mask, so you're not really anonymous. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-789-0775unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: OT: Secrets of bee flight revealed
On Wed, 7 Dec 2005, Harry Veeder wrote: William Beaty wrote: But I already know the answer. It's simple: Pressure differentials explain 100% of the lifting force, while flow-deflection (the acceleration of fluid masses) also explains 100% of the lifting force. These are simply two independant ways of attacking the problem. There is no competition between a Bernoulli viewpoint and a Newton viewpoint. This is just another way of saying that the Bernoulli equation ends up obeying Newton's laws. Or in other words, if the water is deflected, there MUST be a pressure differential which causes a lifting force... and if there is a lifting force, then the water MUST be deflected. I don't think the two explanations are equivalent. During level flight the Bernoulli explanation DOES NOT predict that the fluid leaving the wing tip will be directed downwards. On the contrary, in 3D flight the Bernoulli explanation *requires* that fluid leaving the wing tip be deflected downwards. That's the reason for sharp trailing edges, the reason that cambered airfoils give lift at zero attack, and it's the whole point of the Kutta Condition. But there's also a wrong explanation that wormed its way into many books, and explanation which depicts the air flowing horizontally off the trailing edge of an untilted wing. The diagram is wrong, and real wings only do such a thing when adjusted to give zero lifting force. The diagrams showing undeflected air are certainly not the Bernoulli explanation. The wrong explanation has become known as the Popular explanation or the equal transit-time fallacy in order to distinguish it from the Bernoulli explanation. In other words... since an airfoil always deflects air downwards from its trailing edge in order to generate a lifting force, then all correct explanations of airfoil function will include the downward deflection of air as part of the explanation. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-789-0775unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
RE: OT: Secrets of bee flight revealed
On Wed, 7 Dec 2005, Rick Monteverde wrote: But the incoming air will fill the vacuum chamber, with the wave travelling at roughly the speed of sound! In human time scale, as soon as you open the valve and generate an air jet, significant air pressure appears on the OTHER side of the wing. You can't just claim that the pressure there is insignificant, instead you have to measure it, millisecond by millisecond. The pump is large compared to the small jar volume, and once that dense air in the jet disperses, which it does very quickly, density and pressure get pretty low pretty fast before much of it swirls around underneath the foil. To see it and its scale is convincing. Seeing my writing about it isn't. Eh. Seeing the demonstration wouldn't convince me, since my brain would insist that SINCE the airfoil is deflected upwards, THEREFORE the pressure underneath is greater than the pressure above. :) If you can show that air can PULL on a curved wing (i.e. create an absolute negative pressure,) that's something very interesting. Yup. It's been shown too, but not by me. Google should bring it up with words like van der Waals, airfoil, boundary layer, etc. But that's just lowered pressure, not absolute negative (attraction) pressure. Boundary layer stuff is weird, but I've never seen articles talking about negative gas pressure. It's hard to see how a molecule, by colliding with a surface, could *attract* that surface. And it's hard to see how widely separated molecules could attract each other on average, especially if they're moving fast enough to bounce during collisions (which would create a strong repulsion force which would have to be canceled out by any attraction mechanism.) If they don't bounce during collisions, then that's called condensation. :) Why else would a flow stick against a surface and follow it down around a curve like that? For air jets in air, or for water jets underwater, Coanda Effect explains it: air flows always entrain adjacent air, pulling the adjacent air into the flow. Or said another way, flows always represent lower pressure, so if air is flowing parallel to an object, the perpendicular force between the flow and the object will be reduced, causing the flow and the object to accelerate towards each other as the outer (non-flowing) air exerts its non-reduced pressure. Blow some air parallel to one side of a dangling piece of paper and the paper will be pushed into the flow so it adheres to the flow. And the flow will stick to the paper, bending away from it's original trajectory. Separate topic: In that old SciAm article about Coanda Effect, they found that tiny structures within the boundary layer could have large effects, so a small step or striation on the surface would make the flow-adhesion effect stronger. I remember one oddity from conventional textbooks: if you put a polished sphere in a wind tunnel, the smoke will curve around the sphere and follow the back of the sphere for quite a ways before detaching and becoming turbulent... but if you add a small disk of thin sandpaper (or even roughened paint) to the very front of the sphere, the smoke then detaches right at the circumference of the sphere, and it won't follow the curve around to the back of the sphere at all. Just that tiny change to the front of the sphere will put the entire rear of the sphere into stall mode. Aircraft designers know all about the effect: just a small bit of rough ice on the leading edge and top of an aircraft wing will trigger early flow-detachment, ruining the lift and leading to crashes on takeoff. That's why they're so paranoid about de-icing the tops of airliner wings. The airfoil bottoms are mostly irrelevant (and you can even hang huge fuel tanks and racks of missles down there.) Also there's a whole group of experimental aircraft hobbyists who specialize in high-lift laminar flow wings with highly polished upper surfaces. These aren't widely used because their characteristics are seriously altered by a small bit of raindrops clinging to the wing. I never finished construction on it, but I started a rig where the airfoil sat on a membrane with good vacuum under the membrane in a separate chamnber from the air above the foil. Air jet would hit the top of the foil as before, but the whole bottom side would be against the membrane. Pump would keep the air above at as low a pressure as possible while the jet shot across the foil surface. Now THAT would be more convincing (even more convincing that measuring the pressure under your first airfoil.) I figure the foil would still rise into the airflow, pulling up on the membrane with the certain-to-be-lower pressure below it. Maybe simpler to use a split chamber with water instead of air? Or use an oil stream in a vacuum? But then you might get genuinely negative fluid pressure, the same negative pressure that's the source of surface tension. - Rick
Re: Correa attacks Wikipedia
On Fri, 16 Dec 2005, Rhong Dhong wrote: At the moment then, requiring an email address to be confirmed may not mean that the subscriber can be traced. Where anonymity is banned (or where money is involved,) some places refuse to honor yahoo.com email addresses or other free email services for confirmations. Then you have to search for a free email service which the forum owners haven't added to their exclude list. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-789-0775unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: OT: Secrets of bee flight revealed
Ok, I stand corrected. Harry William Beaty wrote: On Wed, 7 Dec 2005, Harry Veeder wrote: William Beaty wrote: But I already know the answer. It's simple: Pressure differentials explain 100% of the lifting force, while flow-deflection (the acceleration of fluid masses) also explains 100% of the lifting force. These are simply two independant ways of attacking the problem. There is no competition between a Bernoulli viewpoint and a Newton viewpoint. This is just another way of saying that the Bernoulli equation ends up obeying Newton's laws. Or in other words, if the water is deflected, there MUST be a pressure differential which causes a lifting force... and if there is a lifting force, then the water MUST be deflected. I don't think the two explanations are equivalent. During level flight the Bernoulli explanation DOES NOT predict that the fluid leaving the wing tip will be directed downwards. On the contrary, in 3D flight the Bernoulli explanation *requires* that fluid leaving the wing tip be deflected downwards. That's the reason for sharp trailing edges, the reason that cambered airfoils give lift at zero attack, and it's the whole point of the Kutta Condition. But there's also a wrong explanation that wormed its way into many books, and explanation which depicts the air flowing horizontally off the trailing edge of an untilted wing. The diagram is wrong, and real wings only do such a thing when adjusted to give zero lifting force. The diagrams showing undeflected air are certainly not the Bernoulli explanation. The wrong explanation has become known as the Popular explanation or the equal transit-time fallacy in order to distinguish it from the Bernoulli explanation. In other words... since an airfoil always deflects air downwards from its trailing edge in order to generate a lifting force, then all correct explanations of airfoil function will include the downward deflection of air as part of the explanation. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-789-0775unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: Arata's gas-loaded double-structured cathode
Mike Carrell wrote: Arata cathodes were used by Mike McKubre at SRI a few years ago. My understanding is that McKubre attempted to fabricate the cathodes himself [in SRI's facilities] without success. It is no accident that Arata's colleague was head of the metallurgy department at the university. Palladium is notoriously difficult to machine and weld. Making bigger cathodes is interesting, and the technique of fabrication could probably be mastered. Note that fundamentally it is a technique of gas loading of extremely fractured particulate surfaces. The particles are only a few hundred atoms in any dimension. Might be best to explode Pd wires in D2, or in high purity D2O like these folks did in H2O to get Silver nanoparticles: The method: http://www.ias.ac.in/chemsci/Pdf-OctDec2003/Pc3336.pdf And the results: http://www.ias.ac.in/pramana/v65/p815/abs.htm Fred Mike Carrell BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:;Gregg;; FN:Gregg NICKNAME: ORG:; TITLE: TEL;HOME;VOICE: TEL;WORK;VOICE: TEL;CELL;VOICE: TEL;PAGER;VOICE: TEL;HOME;FAX: TEL;WORK;FAX: ADR;HOME:;; ADR;WORK:;; URL;HOME: URL;WORK: BDAY: ANNIV: SPOUSE: FAMILY: EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] NOTE: IM;PREF;INTERNET:; IM;INTERNET:; IM;INTERNET:; VCARD_END:VCARD
Ooops! Fancy that! 8-)
I've just realised one of the consequences of the 3D Casimir Law. Stefan's fourth power law only presents a one dimensional view of things. In fact the energy density goes down according to (LAC)^(-12) where LAC is Local Absolute Compreture and Compreture is the reciprocal of temperature as measured from the local absolute zero. That why the Vapour Pressure vs. temperature is a twelfth power law. Oh dearie me. The physicists won't be pleased. But I will certainly enjoy the schadenfreude. 8-) Cheers, Frank Grimer
