RE: [Vo]:Phonons and how do you make them
Not that I think that gas motion is missing, in fact I believe that both of these vacuum effects coexist but obviously at different scales with a strong possibility that random gas motion is locally unchanged by the less local CE and DCE. Where just gas motion or just CE would be expected to reach equilibrium / COE where gas atoms simply move back and forth to average out to zero gain. I believe the geometry and quantum effects allow the normally chaotic motions to be organized into an exploitable force where the random motion opposes the change in Casimir force [DCE] and allows HUP to act like the hammer against which the now moving anvil that is DCE strikes in this confined space. IMHO zero point is the energy source for whatever theory you like, disassociating molecules, lowering the coulomb barrier, Lamb pinch or what ever. The DCE is of course needs a resonance but can be powered by many of the mechanism described in this forum like plasmons, lasers , audio, piezo and combinations thereof alternately opposing random motion to greater and lesser extents and if my pet theory is correct to a greater and lesser extend based on atomic or molecular state of the gas. In this pet theory the energy gain is realized by discounting the disassociation threshold lower than the thermal gain when the molecule immediately reforms..runaway. Other theories realize gain in different manners but I suspect the underlying energy they are exploiting is still this normally unexploitable force responsible for gas motion..HUP. Fran _ From: Frank roarty [mailto:fr...@roarty.biz] Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 9:38 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Phonons and how do you make them Agreed it is possible to imagine that there are surface features of this nickel powder in the ~50 nm range and easy to imagine these microtubules become interlaced when packed into bulk form and resonate through a range of nano geometries. Without even moving the hydrogen is already exposed to dynamic values of Casimir force. Fran _ From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 2:14 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.commailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Phonons and how do you make them -Original Message- From: Brad Lowe Question: How do you create phonons in a lattice and be able to adjust and measure their frequency to get the results suggested by the theory? Brad - IMO the precise way you have stated this question makes it unlikely (i.e. adjusting the lattice frequency), but claimed results may have been accomplished in another way. The trick that Rossi apparently uses is somewhat the inverse of this, and could be called serendipity. Intentionally or not, Rossi has used a ceramic (SiC)containment structure for the Hot Cat which is semi-coherent in the IR at a certain important temperature (very sharp peak). Rossi may not have known of the incredibly steep peak of reflectance for SiC at 10-11 microns, leading to superradiance - but he was fortunate to be in a particular Italian Lab (with Focardi) where SiC is routinely used, so it was available. The result is the HotCat. The optical photons and lattice phonons are locked, and emitted at the same semi-coherent frequency. It is laser-like optical emission, not pure coherence but superradiant. IOW the enclosure material of the HotCat itself is superradiant at the desired frequency of ~27-28 THz which is 10-11 micron photon wavelength. This photon has a mass energy of .113 eV which is the temperature equivalent to 1038 C. Many theorists (Hagelstein et al) have noticed this far IR range of activity seems to be semi-coherent and related to gain. Conclusion: The natural IR resonance of SiC happens to be intrinsic to the gain of the Rossi Hot Cat, due to its inherent properties at a specific wavelength (no need for adjustment)- and gain is achieved by surface plasmon absorption of semi-coherent IR irradiation in a positive feedback loop. If Frank Z's MHz-meter hypothesis is involved in Rossi's device, then one would need to show nanometer particulate. Rossi says many times that his nickel is 10 micron obtained from http://www.gerlimetalli.it/inglese/ihome.htm However, it is possible to imagine that there are surface features of this nickel powder in the ~50 nm range which Frank Z has claimed is active for Pd-D cold fusion. Once again, however, the evidence seems to show that Pd-D (which may be far more relevant to MHz-meter) is a different reaction entirely than is Ni-H. The two cannot easily be rationalized as being the part of a single modus operandi. Jones
RE: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
Thorium has been a pipe dream for 50 years. Back then, they also envisioned Cars powered by Uranium. The two are so similar that the only difference is access. Thorium fission offers little significant advantage over uranium unless you have lots of the ore - and one huge disadvantage - the natural element contains no fissile isotope. This is fine if you have access to fissile material from elsewhere. Otherwise, with thorium you have a heavy metal door-stop. Back about 3-4 years, Lewis Larsen Co got into the thorium transmutation act. Apparently there are some bacteria which can transmute thorium (as well as Uranium) They call it fissionless but it is unclear if much energy can be derived. The assumption is that energy can be derived, but AFAIK - they dropped the suggestion as unrealistic. http://www.slideshare.net/lewisglarsen/thoriumseed-lenr-networkfigslattice-e nergydec-7-2010-6177745 If you are looking for good bets - IMO look elsewhere than thorium for energy - at least if you are not in Asia. They like Thorium in India and China because they have lots of the ore, and importantly, they have the fissile material from their A bomb programs - with which to start the reaction (it can also be derived from the waste of uranium fission). but make no mistake, Thorium is almost completely useless without a fissile material. and had Fukushima been thorium fueled, the result could have been worse - not better. From: Blaze http://www.caradvice.com.au/132921/the-thorium-powered-car-eight-grams-one- million-miles/ http://www.caradvice.com.au/132921/the-thorium-powered-car-eight-grams-one-m illion-miles/ In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:08:02 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] I found this link on the Cold Fusion Times website. What powers the laser that heats the thorium? Is this a parody? Harry http://wardsauto.com/ar/thorium_power_car_110811/%22A http://wardsauto.com/ar/thorium_power_car_110811/A U.S. company says it is getting closer to putting prototype electric cars on the road that will be powered by the heavy-metal thorium. Thorium is a naturally occurring, slightly radioactive rare-earth element discovered in 1828 by the Swedish chemist Jons Jakob Berzelius, who named it after Thor, the Norse god of thunder. It is found in small amounts in most rocks and soils, where it is about three times more abundant than uranium. In order to get that much energy out of thorium, you have to fission it. Now you could do that with fast particles directly or by first converting it to U233 then fissioning it with slow neutrons. Since a laser is employed, and we know that lasers can be used as particle accelerators, my guess would be that they intend to accelerate protons with the laser and use them to fission the Thorium directly. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
[Vo]:Is this for real or a scam?
Hi, Just wondering if anybody knows about Liberty Generator? http://www.libertygenerator.com/ Be aware it is an endless long video with a Powerpoint kind of presentation with Voice-over. Is this for real or just another scam? Anybody knows how it works if it does work? Kind regards, Rob
Re: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
The recent advances in accelerator technologyhttp://www6.slac.stanford.edu/news/2013-09-27-accelerator-on-a-chip.aspxwill open a lot of interesting possibilities. Controlled thorium fission is one. On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote: http://www.caradvice.com.au/132921/the-thorium-powered-car-eight-g rams-one-million-miles/ In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:08:02 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] I found this link on the Cold Fusion Times website. What powers the laser that heats the thorium? Is this a parody? Harry http://wardsauto.com/ar/thorium_power_car_110811/A U.S. company says it is getting closer to putting prototype electric cars on the road that will be powered by the heavy-metal thorium. Thorium is a naturally occurring, slightly radioactive rare-earth element discovered in 1828 by the Swedish chemist Jons Jakob Berzelius, who named it after Thor, the Norse god of thunder. It is found in small amounts in most rocks and soils, where it is about three times more abundant than uranium. In order to get that much energy out of thorium, you have to fission it. Now you could do that with fast particles directly or by first converting it to U233 then fissioning it with slow neutrons. Since a laser is employed, and we know that lasers can be used as particle accelerators, my guess would be that they intend to accelerate protons with the laser and use them to fission the Thorium directly. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
You're lumping all thorium technologies together when they are radically different from each other. Please qualify your statements or I'll presume you are ignorant about thorium. On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Thorium has been a pipe dream for 50 years. Back then, they also envisioned Cars powered by Uranium. The two are so similar that the only difference is access. ** ** Thorium fission offers little significant advantage over uranium unless you have lots of the ore - and one huge disadvantage – the natural element contains no fissile isotope. This is fine if you have access to fissile material from elsewhere. Otherwise, with thorium you have a heavy metal door-stop. ** ** Back about 3-4 years, Lewis Larsen Co got into the thorium transmutation act. Apparently there are some bacteria which can transmute thorium (as well as Uranium) ** ** They call it “fissionless” but it is unclear if much energy can be derived. The assumption is that energy can be derived, but AFAIK – they dropped the suggestion as unrealistic. ** ** http://www.slideshare.net/lewisglarsen/thoriumseed-lenr-networkfigslattice-energydec-7-2010-6177745 ** ** If you are looking for good bets – IMO look elsewhere than thorium for energy – at least if you are not in Asia. ** ** They like Thorium in India and China because they have lots of the ore, and importantly, they have the fissile material from their A bomb programs - with which to start the reaction (it can also be derived from the waste of uranium fission)… but make no mistake, Thorium is almost completely useless without a fissile material… and had Fukushima been thorium fueled, the result could have been worse – not better. ** ** *From:* Blaze ** ** http://www.caradvice.com.au/132921/the-thorium-powered-car-eight-grams-one-million-miles/ ** ** In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:08:02 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] I found this link on the Cold Fusion Times website. What powers the laser that heats the thorium? Is this a parody? Harry http://wardsauto.com/ar/thorium_power_car_110811/A U.S. company says it is getting closer to putting prototype electric cars on the road that will be powered by the heavy-metal thorium. Thorium is a naturally occurring, slightly radioactive rare-earth element discovered in 1828 by the Swedish chemist Jons Jakob Berzelius, who named it after Thor, the Norse god of thunder. It is found in small amounts in most rocks and soils, where it is about three times more abundant than uranium. ** ** In order to get that much energy out of thorium, you have to fission it. Now you could do that with fast particles directly or by first converting it to U233 then fissioning it with slow neutrons. Since a laser is employed, and we know that lasers can be used as particle accelerators, my guess would be that they intend to accelerate protons with the laser and use them to fission the Thorium directly. ** ** Regards, ** ** Robin van Spaandonk ** ** http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html ** **
Re: [Vo]:Is this for real or a scam?
Jones et al, Just for clarification I have NO whatsoever affiliation with this site. Curious minds only wanted to know what the claimed behind laying principle/technique is for this generator. Kind regards, Rob
RE: [Vo]:Is this for real or a scam?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upselling No electrical generator is required for this ploy to function, this is basically a generator of income. Of course they can supply a picture of something if you want it. They take many liberties with the truth. From: Jed Rothwell This is the worst kind of scam: the exposed scam scam. Immediate tip-off - numerous sites set up to promote the device by first claiming to expose that it is really a scam - but then shifting gears and saying that in fact, the device works as claimed. Whoa! That's some kind of recursive function, or a mirror-image paradox. I don't know what it would be. I guess it is the liar paradox, i.e., the assertion this statement is false which is true if it is false, but false if it is true. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar_paradox - Jed
[Vo]:Disruption of traditional power generation
An example of what might happen when LENR takes off? How to lose half a trillion euros http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21587782-europes-electricity-providers-face-existential-threat-how-lose-half-trillion-euros ON JUNE 16th something very peculiar happened in Germany’s electricity market. The wholesale price of electricity fell to minus (Euro) 100 per megawatt hour (MWh). That is, generating companies were having to pay the managers of the grid to take their electricity. It was a bright, breezy Sunday. Demand was low. Between 2pm and 3pm, solar and wind generators produced 28.9 gigawatts (GW) of power, more than half the total. The grid at that time could not cope with more than 45GW without becoming unstable. Battery-Stored Solar Power Sparks Backlash From Utilities http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-07/battery-stored-solar-power-sparks-backlash-from-utilities.html California’s three biggest utilities are sparring with their own customers about systems that store energy from the sun, opening another front in the battle that’s redefining the mission of electricity generators.
Re: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
In reply to James Bowery's message of Tue, 15 Oct 2013 11:40:35 -0500: Hi, Yes, that may be an option. Also, AFAIK, it's possible to accelerate particles in a plasma with a laser. Probably based on the same or similar principle. However any such scheme doesn't appear to take into account the neutrons released by fissioning the thorium. I suspect that the neutrons would make a fission based power source unacceptable in car, reason why it was dropped back in the 50's. Furthermore there is also the small matter of dealing with the radiation from the daughter products. The recent advances in accelerator technologyhttp://www6.slac.stanford.edu/news/2013-09-27-accelerator-on-a-chip.aspxwill open a lot of interesting possibilities. Controlled thorium fission is one. On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote: http://www.caradvice.com.au/132921/the-thorium-powered-car-eight-g rams-one-million-miles/ In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:08:02 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] I found this link on the Cold Fusion Times website. What powers the laser that heats the thorium? Is this a parody? Harry http://wardsauto.com/ar/thorium_power_car_110811/A U.S. company says it is getting closer to putting prototype electric cars on the road that will be powered by the heavy-metal thorium. Thorium is a naturally occurring, slightly radioactive rare-earth element discovered in 1828 by the Swedish chemist Jons Jakob Berzelius, who named it after Thor, the Norse god of thunder. It is found in small amounts in most rocks and soils, where it is about three times more abundant than uranium. In order to get that much energy out of thorium, you have to fission it. Now you could do that with fast particles directly or by first converting it to U233 then fissioning it with slow neutrons. Since a laser is employed, and we know that lasers can be used as particle accelerators, my guess would be that they intend to accelerate protons with the laser and use them to fission the Thorium directly. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Disruption of traditional power generation
Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: An example of what might happen when LENR takes off? Yes, only much, much worse. More like what happened to the ocean liner trade after transatlantic air travel become popular in the 1950s. The industry will vanish in a generation. Except perhaps in a few specialized markets such as New York City or Tokyo. - Jed
[Vo]:Video The Believers
I just saw this video for the first time: http://thebelieversmovie.com/ It was nice to see Martin, Ed, Mike and a few others talk. However, overall I find this video is appalling. It is 87 minutes of he-said, she-said fact-free blather. It does not present any salient scientific fact about cold fusion. Not one graph. Not one falsifiable statement. It features bits and pieces of interviews with a few people who know what they are talking about interspersed with creepy music and idiotic voice over comments. Mostly it is about some of the events in the first few months of 1989, with no mention of the fact that by mid-1990, ~100 major labs reported replications. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:how will massive oil discovery impact LENR?
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 2:58 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:how will massive oil discovery impact LENR? I always have mixed feelings about things like this. On one hand I hate to see people having to pay so much for gasoline. Another way to look at Paying so much is that in the 50's, a US silver quarter would buy a gallon of gasoline. Today a pre 1964 US quarter will buy about a gallon and a half, so the real price has declined. You can't measure things with a super elastic yardstick! On the other hand, without price pressure there is no incentive to develop alternative fuels, better batteries or even cold fusion. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:how will massive oil discovery impact LENR?
I'd be more worried about the impact of something like this on the environment. On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 4:41 AM, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: Massive oil discovery in Southern Australia could dwarf OPEC.. ** ** http://moneymorning.com/ob-article/arckaringa-saudi.php?code=131883 ** ** ** ** ** **
Re: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
In reply to mix...@bigpond.com's message of Wed, 16 Oct 2013 08:36:54 +1100: Hi, My notion of how it might work:- The fast particles from the thorium fission process could excite a gas causing it to lase. The laser light would then accelerate protons in the same gas which would fission more thorium. This would be entirely self contained, and self powering. Of course you would need to be able to turn the laser on and off at will. BTW, 8 gm of Thorium would provide either 25 kW for 7200 hours or 250 kW for 720 hours, assuming 100% conversion efficiency. [snip] In reply to James Bowery's message of Tue, 15 Oct 2013 11:40:35 -0500: Hi, Yes, that may be an option. Also, AFAIK, it's possible to accelerate particles in a plasma with a laser. Probably based on the same or similar principle. However any such scheme doesn't appear to take into account the neutrons released by fissioning the thorium. I suspect that the neutrons would make a fission based power source unacceptable in car, reason why it was dropped back in the 50's. Furthermore there is also the small matter of dealing with the radiation from the daughter products. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:how will massive oil discovery impact LENR?
Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: I'd be more worried about the impact of something like this on the environment. Naturally. That's one if big reasons we want cold fusion. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:New DoE Head= Professor Ernest Moniz- MIT
Now that former Physics Dept. Head Professor Ernest Moniz is a Deputy U.S. Secretary of Energy, MIT’s ability to bring influence to bear for hot fusion will be even stronger. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/2776421/posts On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Ron Kita chiralex.k...@gmail.com wrote: Greetings Vortex, Just appointed Professor Moniz of MIT Green Energy Initiative: http://esd.mit.edu/Faculty_Pages/moniz/moniz.htm MIT Day...Dr Swartz and Hagelstien...should have been considered= grins. Ron Kita Doylestown PA
Re: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 6:38 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: The fast particles from the thorium fission process could excite a gas causing it to lase. The laser light would then accelerate protons in the same gas which would fission more thorium. If the protons are within the lasing medium, how does it accelerate them in a specific direction? Eric
Re: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
In reply to Eric Walker's message of Tue, 15 Oct 2013 20:43:02 -0700: Hi, [snip] On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 6:38 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: The fast particles from the thorium fission process could excite a gas causing it to lase. The laser light would then accelerate protons in the same gas which would fission more thorium. If the protons are within the lasing medium, how does it accelerate them in a specific direction? Eric The gas is contained within a cavity that is dimensioned and tuned to the laser light wavelength, just like an ordinary gas laser. AFAIK the protons are accelerated along the axis of the laser. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:U.S. Researcher Preparing Prototype Cars Powered by Heavy-Metal Thorium
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 8:54 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: The gas is contained within a cavity that is dimensioned and tuned to the laser light wavelength, just like an ordinary gas laser. AFAIK the protons are accelerated along the axis of the laser. My thought was that the light would go back and forth within the cavity, resulting in a net force of zero on the protons. In that case, would it only be once the light emerges from an opening on one side of the cavity and exited that a positive force could be exerted on a body? Eric
