[Vo]:Re: Call for new Ozone process
Howdy Richard, what makes you think the classical glass tube dielectric barrier discharge ozone production process (which you are using IIRC) can be improved upon, and what's troubling about it? Michel - Original Message - From: R C Macaulay To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [VO]: Call for new Ozone process Thanks Esa, Obviously Tesla never built one like the patent drawing or he would have wound up with clean breath and a nitric acid bath. Richard Esa posted. DC PULSES. Nikola Tesla. Apparatus for Production of Ozone http://rpmgt.org/588177.html Howdy Vorts, As some are aware, one of our companies build water treating and wastewater disinfection chem feed inductors. We have depended on our industry to produce the remainder of the systems including the chemicals for this purpose. We are not chemists or physicists. We need systems that can produce quantities of in situozone gas at a lower cost and safer methods. There are new exotics entering the nation's water supply that we believe can be destroyed via ozone treatment but the existing processes for making ozone are both expensive and troubling. There are Vorts here that have an idea on the subject that may help our industry. Richard
Re: [Vo]:Re: Call for new Ozone process
Howdy Richard, what makes you think the classical glass tube dielectric barrier discharge ozone production process (which you are using IIRC) can be improved upon, and what's troubling about it? Michel Several things Michel. The demand is increasing, ozone gas is expensive, ozone doesn't store like chlorine so it's made on the job, it's not a universal like liquid bleach. The process is tricky so locating a ozone generator in a wastewater plant using unskilled labor can take years off your life. Richard's solution ?? ask the Vorts, of course. The collection of wisdom in VortexL exceeds even the accumulated brainpower of the Dime Box saloon's scientific advisory panel which includes several ex politicians and busted bankers. The suggestion for using a parabolic reflector for directing the UV lamp output was an example of how this group operates.. good idea. This has led to thinking of why not consider a UV lamp does not have to be shaped like a tube. hmm Our task in this grand scheme is to build a mixer that will mix ozone. We decided the solution was to take a bubble of ozone, place it on a sledge hammer and hit it with another sledge hammer.. shazzaam! instant dissolved ozone. Translated... slice water under presssure at above 125 f/s velocity and the collapse behind will sledgehammer the bubble.. velocity shear. Howdy to you too! Michal. darn if we don't have you talking like a Texan.. what will Germany and France think of you ? Richard
[Vo]:Re: Call for new Ozone process
Producing ozone using UV, why not, that's indeed what the sun does in the upper atmosphere and what makes the sky blue, how does it compare with the DBD method in terms of efficiency and cost? Is ozone a requirement, if not maybe you could produce bleach on the spot. Michel P.S. If I talked like a Texan I wouldn't understand a word of what I say ;-) Germany wouldn't think much of me, haven't been there a lot, nice green place and lots of beer though. - Original Message - From: R C Macaulay To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Call for new Ozone process Howdy Richard, what makes you think the classical glass tube dielectric barrier discharge ozone production process (which you are using IIRC) can be improved upon, and what's troubling about it? Michel Several things Michel. The demand is increasing, ozone gas is expensive, ozone doesn't store like chlorine so it's made on the job, it's not a universal like liquid bleach. The process is tricky so locating a ozone generator in a wastewater plant using unskilled labor can take years off your life. Richard's solution ?? ask the Vorts, of course. The collection of wisdom in VortexL exceeds even the accumulated brainpower of the Dime Box saloon's scientific advisory panel which includes several ex politicians and busted bankers. The suggestion for using a parabolic reflector for directing the UV lamp output was an example of how this group operates.. good idea. This has led to thinking of why not consider a UV lamp does not have to be shaped like a tube. hmm Our task in this grand scheme is to build a mixer that will mix ozone. We decided the solution was to take a bubble of ozone, place it on a sledge hammer and hit it with another sledge hammer.. shazzaam! instant dissolved ozone. Translated... slice water under presssure at above 125 f/s velocity and the collapse behind will sledgehammer the bubble.. velocity shear. Howdy to you too! Michal. darn if we don't have you talking like a Texan.. what will Germany and France think of you ? Richard
Re: [Vo]:Re: Call for new Ozone process
For pure kill power, ozone has the right stuff, no residual and good reduction properties. Bleach must be destructed after doing it's job.The task is getting ozone in the right place immediately on generation. Like Chlorine gas.. the first 3 seconds holds the kill power. We are looking at shapes of the UV lamp for a method of surrounding the target area in creating the initial gas phase. Everybody in Germany moved to Texas in the 1820's and are still here and speak German like a native. I live in Walhalla.. that's betrween Nechanitz and Rutersville. nearby is Waldeck and Weimar.. across to road from New Ulm and Dubina , which is down the road from Praha ( oops a Czech slipped in) Not to worry, Shiner Texas has the beer plant...The first German settlement in Texas was Industry Texas.near Blieberville and Cat Spring.. Dime Box was a late bloomer town. Richard Michal sez, Producing ozone using UV, why not, that's indeed what the sun does in the upper atmosphere and what makes the sky blue, how does it compare with the DBD method in terms of efficiency and cost? Is ozone a requirement, if not maybe you could produce bleach on the spot. Michel P.S. If I talked like a Texan I wouldn't understand a word of what I say ;-) Germany wouldn't think much of me, haven't been there a lot, nice green place and lots of beer though.
[Vo]:Re: Call for new Ozone process
Jones answered, with ample supporting arguments and evidence, my question about efficiency of UV tube based methods: not efficient at all, as I had suspected. Going back to gas discharge (DBD, the classical process), it occurred to me that the best way to do it in situ was to use the water itself as a discharge surface, a quick Googling showed this has indeed been done with what seems to be good results, see http://www.center.bg.ac.yu/plasma/plasmapic/DBD.pdf , how's that Richard? Michel - Original Message - From: R C Macaulay To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Call for new Ozone process For pure kill power, ozone has the right stuff, no residual and good reduction properties. Bleach must be destructed after doing it's job.The task is getting ozone in the right place immediately on generation. Like Chlorine gas.. the first 3 seconds holds the kill power. We are looking at shapes of the UV lamp for a method of surrounding the target area in creating the initial gas phase. Everybody in Germany moved to Texas in the 1820's and are still here and speak German like a native. I live in Walhalla.. that's betrween Nechanitz and Rutersville. nearby is Waldeck and Weimar.. across to road from New Ulm and Dubina , which is down the road from Praha ( oops a Czech slipped in) Not to worry, Shiner Texas has the beer plant...The first German settlement in Texas was Industry Texas.near Blieberville and Cat Spring.. Dime Box was a late bloomer town. Richard Michal sez, Producing ozone using UV, why not, that's indeed what the sun does in the upper atmosphere and what makes the sky blue, how does it compare with the DBD method in terms of efficiency and cost? Is ozone a requirement, if not maybe you could produce bleach on the spot. Michel P.S. If I talked like a Texan I wouldn't understand a word of what I say ;-) Germany wouldn't think much of me, haven't been there a lot, nice green place and lots of beer though.
[Vo]:Re: Call for new Ozone process
- Original Message From: Michel Jullian it occurred to me that the best way to do it in situ was to use the water itself as a discharge surface, a quick Googling showed this has indeed been done with what seems to be good results, see http://www.center.bg.ac.yu/plasma/plasmapic/DBD.pdf Merci, or mercy-me. OK- now we are getting somewhere with this international brainstorm... (i.e. lightning in a barrel ;-) What happens when you combine the above with the Kanzius/Heffner salt water and peroxide idea and the BLP-lite unstable hydrino possibility ? IOW - in looking for synergy in a hybrid design - and given that a simple cylindrical barrel or reactor, which is partly filled with salt water, and continually evacuated, so that there is a partial vacuum above the water -- ... and a cathode above the water is pulsed to provide an HV arc through the water vapor, with the water surface being the anode. ...and with an RF antenna underwater - providing some H2 (the Kanzius approach) ... ...which H2 and nascent hydrogen, as it is formed and when it gets to the surface, immediately interacts with the pulsed arc discharge, forming hydrinos with the emission of EUV ... ...and the EUV then interacts with the O2 in the water and in the vapor near the surface (as any HOOH has been forced to decay) ... ... but the whole thing is kept relatively cool (the arc is HV and low current) so that the O3 is stable with a lifetime of 10-15 minutes ... ...$64 question - will the gas being drawn off by the vacuum pump contain significant amounts of ozone? Jones
[Vo]:Re: Call for new Ozone process
Forgot to add - we also require some extra O2 to be bubbled through the barrel, otherwise the end product is all steam. Not sure the pressure-swing device enrichment device is efficient enough for very cheap O2. Maybe Robin knows? - Original Message From: Michel Jullian it occurred to me that the best way to do it in situ was to use the water itself as a discharge surface, a quick Googling showed this has indeed been done with what seems to be good results, see http://www.center.bg.ac.yu/plasma/plasmapic/DBD.pdf Merci, or mercy-me. OK- now we are getting somewhere with this international brainstorm... (i.e. lightning in a barrel ;-) What happens when you combine the above with the Kanzius/Heffner salt water and peroxide idea and the BLP-lite unstable hydrino possibility ? IOW - in looking for synergy in a hybrid design - and given that a simple cylindrical barrel or reactor, which is partly filled with salt water, and continually evacuated, so that there is a partial vacuum above the water -- ... and a cathode above the water is pulsed to provide an HV arc through the water vapor, with the water surface being the anode. ...and with an RF antenna underwater - providing some H2 (the Kanzius approach) ... ...which H2 and nascent hydrogen, as it is formed and when it gets to the surface, immediately interacts with the pulsed arc discharge, forming hydrinos with the emission of EUV ... ...and the EUV then interacts with the O2 in the water and in the vapor near the surface (as any HOOH has been forced to decay) ... ... but the whole thing is kept relatively cool (the arc is HV and low current) so that the O3 is stable with a lifetime of 10-15 minutes ... ...$64 question - will the gas being drawn off by the vacuum pump contain significant amounts of ozone? Jones
Re: [Vo]:Re: Call for new Ozone process
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 21 Mar 2008 09:49:58 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] Forgot to add - we also require some extra O2 to be bubbled through the barrel, otherwise the end product is all steam. Not sure the pressure-swing device enrichment device is efficient enough for very cheap O2. Maybe Robin knows? Unfortunately I don't, however I'm guessing that the energies involved are small compared to electrolysis, so I would expect it to be cheaper than that, and I suspect that electrolysis would be cheaper than buying bottled oxygen (based on anecdotal reports of Wiseman technology Brown's gas generators). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
