Re: [Vo]:The Kanzius - Chlorine connection
Richard, OK, when you get through chuckling over it, expand on the thought. Aussies love to tease Texas boys but behind the comment lies something I haven't thought of before. Robin can speak for himself- but there is no tease here IMHO. (not that Texan's don't deserve it on occasion ;-) I think that what he is suggesting is that just like the plastic film in CR-39 leaves evidence of a nuclear reaction, the same kind of thing could be happening with HMWPE- in the sense that the reason you see the needle-like pitting with sea-water and not with manufactured chlorine is that the chlorine has become photoactivated. Actually there are three or four possibilities and perhaps at least three are required to cause the marking you see: 1) The chlorine in the sea water must become photoactivated, and a percentage of it must remain in a metastable state by long exposure to UV light. This wold imply that the water used is surface sea water and not from the depths 2) All sea water will contain deuterium, but perhaps the HDO content has been enriched by natural processes in the particular situation 3) During processing, on occasion, the QM reaction mentioned in the previous post occurs, where the deuterium atom tunnels into the k-shell of the photoactivated chlorine resulting in a neutron stripping reaction. The neutron is absorbed leading eventually to a beta decay. Alternatively: 4) Solar hydrinos are created in the sun's corona and if they arrive in the solar wind, they will likely accumulate in the oceans of earth, and have an affinity for alkali metal ions. Unlike potassium, sodium is not a catalyst so it would only attract and not further shrink the hydrino - which is then poised to react with photoactivated chlorine. BTW - it would be extremely interesting to remove some of this pitted material and have it tested with a sensitive GM monitor to see if there is any residual radiation present. Jones
Re: [Vo]:The Kanzius - Chlorine connection
Richard, It should also be mentioned that polychlorobiphenyls (PCBs) like the kinds once used in transformers, which have leaked into drainage and spent considerable time in direct sunlight become strongly photoactivated, and have been said to glow for a while after sunset. The only reason this might be connected to an ocean setting, in particular like LA or especially Long Beach is the proximity to a large Naval Shipyard, which is notorious for PCBs and other toxins. I would be willing to bet that Long Beach is a problem area for this kind of thing, since it isone of the world's largest shipping ports and also has a large oilindustry and manufacturing infrastructure-- and a reputation for being lax in enforcement (probably as a result of being too close to LAX ;-)
Re: [Vo]:The Kanzius - Chlorine connection
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Mon, 31 Mar 2008 07:41:38 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] Richard, OK, when you get through chuckling over it, expand on the thought. Aussies love to tease Texas boys but behind the comment lies something I haven't thought of before. Robin can speak for himself- but there is no tease here IMHO. Correct. The smiley was just because I thought it was an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how serious to take myself in this case. [snip I think that what he is suggesting is that just like the plastic film in CR-39 leaves evidence of a nuclear reaction, the same kind of thing could be happening with HMWPE- in the sense that the reason you see the needle-like pitting with sea-water and not with manufactured chlorine is that the chlorine has become photoactivated. When an energetic charged particle rips through solid matter, it ionizes the atoms. If that solid is a good insulator then the electron and ion pairs formed will tend to remain in the solid, because the electrons can't migrate through insulating material to find their way back to ions to neutralize them. That leaves a suspension of ions along the path that the charged particle took. If the substance is normally resistant to ionic chemical attack (as are most plastics), then the suspended ions form a weakness where such an ionic attack can take place. Hence etching the plastic in a strong alkali hollows out the tracks taken by the charged particles. Well, that's my guess as to how it works. Actually there are three or four possibilities and perhaps at least three are required to cause the marking you see: 1) The chlorine in the sea water must become photoactivated, and a percentage of it must remain in a metastable state by long exposure to UV light. This wold imply that the water used is surface sea water and not from the depths 2) All sea water will contain deuterium, but perhaps the HDO content has been enriched by natural processes in the particular situation 3) During processing, on occasion, the QM reaction mentioned in the previous post occurs, where the deuterium atom tunnels into the k-shell of the photoactivated chlorine resulting in a neutron stripping reaction. The neutron is absorbed leading eventually to a beta decay. Beta decays don't leave tracks in CR-39 though, AFAIK, so perhaps my little yarn here above is not quite correct. It may also require that individual nuclei get completely knocked out of place - which would require the momentum of a heavy particle (e.g. proton or alpha). Alternatively: 4) Solar hydrinos are created in the sun's corona and if they arrive in the solar wind, they will likely accumulate in the oceans of earth, and have an affinity for alkali metal ions. Unlike potassium, sodium is not a catalyst so it would only attract and not further shrink the hydrino - which is then poised to react with photoactivated chlorine. There are theoretically lots of nuclear reactions which might have been involved, and many ways in which they might have come about. However I'm a little cautious about this whole approach, because I thought that the tracks in CR-39 were microscopic in size, and get the impression in this case that they are quite large. Now, this may be due to use of a different plastic, different exposure and etching times, and different etching chemical(s). BTW - it would be extremely interesting to remove some of this pitted material and have it tested with a sensitive GM monitor to see if there is any residual radiation present. Agreed. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
Re: [Vo]:The Kanzius - Chlorine connection
Jones Beene wrote: Richard, OK, when you get through chuckling over it, expand on the thought. Aussies 4) Solar hydrinos are created in the sun's corona and if they arrive in the solar wind, they will likely accumulate in the oceans of earth, and have an affinity for alkali metal ions. Unlike potassium, sodium is not a catalyst so it would only attract and not further shrink the hydrino - which is then poised to react with photoactivated chlorine. Last I heard sodium was a Mill's Catalyst. This is also the first time I've heard that alkali metals attract hydrinos. BTW, when I talked to Mr. Kanzas he denied that his process produced any energy, do you believe that he was blowing smoke? --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
[Vo]:The Kanzius - Chlorine connection
Some of the Kanzius-effect details are almost beginning to fall into a rational MO (modus operandi). It turns out that the 13.56-MHz radio frequency is a harmonic of the naturalfrequency of sodium ions, according to Dr. Roy at PSU. This is a bit of serendipity, it seems. These RF waves, to the extent that they can propagate in salt water, cause the positive sodium ions tovibrate intensely. At this degree of vibration, the Vander Waal force - which is the near-field charge polarity effect of molecules [which is different but arguably linked to the Casimir force by geometry similarities], can then attract the oxygen end of the water molecule much closer than normal [the O end has a slightly negative charge]. A percentage of the positive sodium ions can then bind temporarily with the OH--H, and if the vibration is severe enough, as is often the case, then the one proton from the water molecule at the far end will be freed... (protons are actually freed naturally for short time spans in pure water, so this is no big deal). From the perspective of the loosest proton in such a case, the attractive charge of the remaining hydroxyl has been diminished, as that hydroxyl is temporarily forming sodium hydroxide (lye) ... but that new lye bond is almost as stable as the former salt ionic bond; thus freeing up the one proton much of the time -- and as a further result of the NaOH, the chloride ion has lost its polarity-partner. The nascent hydrogen (proton) can either find another one, forming hydrogen gas, which would happen more often if there were free electrons - or else the nascent hydrogen will find a freed chloride ion and the net result is a violent secondary 'combustion.' It could be made much more violent if the chlorine were to become photoactivated. If there is any OU in this system (and there has been NO indication of that so far) then it might derive from the secondary combustion being suprachemical at least on occasion in the QM sense of a bare proton being able to tunnel into the k-shell of the photoactivated chlorine. Teaser: There is actually some (fairly decent) historical evidence that deuterium and photoactivated chlorine combine with near-nuclear (supra-chemical) effects resulting in neutron stripping ! More on that at the end. Chlorine gas would be encouraged to form if the two ions could both get rid of their extra electrons, which is rare- therefore the choline ion can only combust or reverse the lye forming reaction and neutralize the base. IOW the RF creates a violent sew-saw of reactions, since the (former) positive ion (sodium) of NaCl has been temporarily bound with the hydroxide from water, forming lye temporarily - that is why we would find all of this instability from only non-ionizing energy (the RF at 13.46 Mhz). From the above, if that scenario happened often enough, we would expect a strong anomaly in excess heat, and resulting overunity. This reaction has not been documented to be anything but conservative, however. The most likely reason for the present situation is the lack of easy penetration or propagation of RF through salt water. In fact the RF which is used is rapidly attenuated. Kanzius claims he has found an additive which increases the H2 output, but it is now a secret. From what has appeared, that additive might be suspected to function as a facilitator of RF propagation in the saltwater, but one wonders if there is not a much easier way. As a gas, chlorine could exit the liquid saltwater, along with the H2. However, since it begins with an ion, most of the local nascent hydrogen and chlorine ions would be expected to burn even before they can leave the cell. Hydrogen chloride (HCl) is produced and it is very hot initially: this is the dense gas produced during combustion of materials with a high chlorine content. HCl is extremely hygroscopic, and will attract all the water vapor in its path, but in the first few milliseconds following combustion it is hot and rapidly is expelled. This is the characteristic yellow color seen in the video. In fact, from the video, it is possible that the HCl is the dominant gas being evolved and that there is very little H2 to burn. If true, the radio waves may be givingelectrolysis at an energy discount, but with un-usable H2 since it has already been converted into HCl, allowing the yellow flame to produce anet energy gain without breaking any thermodynamic laws if the saltwater itself drops in temperature. All which is apparent at this stage of understanding is that this is a very promising niche in alternative energy field -- which in a perfect world, would attract the huge amount of needed funding which would be required to try to push it into commercial usefullness. Jones Below is some speculative information from old posting on supra-chemical (ballotechnic) reactions' which anecdotally have been claimed to produce nuclear reactions (neutron
Re: [Vo]:The Kanzius - Chlorine connection
Howdy Jones, In my files under chlorine and salt water anomalies, I keep your posts on this subject. For some years we have puzzled over some of the (return for repair) chlorine gas vacuum induction feeder mixers installed at Los Angeles and certain other US locations always adjacent to oceans. Some salt water can be present in the effluent. The units show severe cavitation pitting on certain areas of the high speed rotating member. This member is made of UHMW ultrahigh molecular weight poly and under NO circumstances should it pit. Of interest is that the pitting does not show as a typical cavition type erosion as seen on centrifugal pump impellers which rots the bronze. The pits on the UHMW appear to be spike shaped formed from a hot needle shot into the plastic. Hmmm Richard Jones wrote, From the above, if that scenario happened often enough, we would expect a strong anomaly in excess heat, and resulting overunity. This reaction has not been documented to be anything but conservative, however. The most likely reason for the present situation is the lack of easy penetration or propagation of RF through salt water.
Re: [Vo]:The Kanzius - Chlorine connection
In reply to R C Macaulay's message of Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:29:02 -0500: Hi, [snip] Howdy Jones, In my files under chlorine and salt water anomalies, I keep your posts on this subject. For some years we have puzzled over some of the (return for repair) chlorine gas vacuum induction feeder mixers installed at Los Angeles and certain other US locations always adjacent to oceans. Some salt water can be present in the effluent. The units show severe cavitation pitting on certain areas of the high speed rotating member. This member is made of UHMW ultrahigh molecular weight poly and under NO circumstances should it pit. Of interest is that the pitting does not show as a typical cavition type erosion as seen on centrifugal pump impellers which rots the bronze. The pits on the UHMW appear to be spike shaped formed from a hot needle shot into the plastic. Hmmm Richard It sounds as if the plastic is acting as a CR-39 replacement energetic particle detector. :) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk The shrub is a plant.
