RE: [Vo]:Test Message

[Mason Ainsworth]

You passed the somewhat off-beat test. And, arguably all others did as well 
when they did not respond. (They just acted at a level not exemplified by 
Koans.)

 . . . this primitive mailing list may not acknowledge the 21st century. But it 
still allows us to use a transformational technology generally recognized as 
being invented about 3200 BCE concerning a technology hopefully reaching the 
stage of practical implementation 'relatively' soon.

It will work for me.

Mason

Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 21:29:56 -0400
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test Message
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com

Mason Ainsworth  wrote:
 
Please respond if you don't get this. 

How can you respond if you do not get something?! "Raise your hand if you 
absent from class."
Perhaps you refer to the emoji (絵文字). That did not come through. This is a 
primitive mailing list. ASCII only. We do not acknowledge the 21st Century.

- Jed
  

Re: [Vo]:Test Message

[Jed Rothwell]

Mason Ainsworth  wrote:


> Please respond if you don't get this.[image: Emoji]
>

How can you respond if you do not get something?! "Raise your hand if you
absent from class."

Perhaps you refer to the emoji (絵文字). That did not come through. This is a
primitive mailing list. ASCII only. We do not acknowledge the 21st Century.

- Jed

[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Test message reproducing the – problem

[Jed Rothwell]

James Bowery  wrote:

Yep.
>
> Thank you, world's richest man.
>

Probably not Microsoft's fault. But hey, let't blame 'em! They are guilty
of a lot of things.

- Jed

[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Test message reproducing the – problem

[James Bowery]

Yep.

Thank you, world's richest man.


On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 10:27 AM, James Bowery  wrote:

> A test response.
>
>
> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 10:26 AM, James Bowery  wrote:
>
>> This is a test to determine whether the problem with response prefix
>> explosion was caused by funny "windows" characters such as  –
>>
>> which appeared in the title of the prior thread.
>>
>
>

[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Test message reproducing the – problem

[James Bowery]

A test response.


On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 10:26 AM, James Bowery  wrote:

> This is a test to determine whether the problem with response prefix
> explosion was caused by funny "windows" characters such as  –
>
> which appeared in the title of the prior thread.
>

Re: [Vo]:Test: Message sent from charter.net

[Terry Blanton]

On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 9:47 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson <
svj.orionwo...@gmail.com> wrote:



>
> IMPORTANT: The message must not be forwarded. You must resend the
> original message. Allow ample time for processing. Charter is unable
> to respond to the submitted messages.
>
> ---
>
> Alas, I can't make any sense out of the last two sentence.


They want the complete message with IP headers.  Like your message to here,
if you click on the little triangle in the upper right hand corner of the
gmail box and then click on  "Show Original" you get the IP header info:

Delivered-To: hohlr...@gmail.com
Received: by 10.216.53.9 with SMTP id f9cs93315wec;
Mon, 1 Nov 2010 06:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.204.53.4 with SMTP id k4mr12016125bkg.145.1288619311388;
Mon, 01 Nov 2010 06:48:31 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: 
Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (ultra5.eskimo.com [204.122.16.68])
by mx.google.com with ESMTP id c10si5074360fac.76.2010.11.01.06.48.18;
Mon, 01 Nov 2010 06:48:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of vortex-l-requ...@eskimo.com
designates 204.122.16.68 as permitted sender) client-ip=204.122.16.68;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of
vortex-l-requ...@eskimo.com designates 204.122.16.68 as permitted
sender) smtp.mail=vortex-l-requ...@eskimo.com; dkim=hardfail (test
mode) header...@gmail.com
Received: from ultra5.eskimo.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id oA1DlN0u024500;
Mon, 1 Nov 2010 06:47:24 -0700
Received: (from smart...@localhost)
by ultra5.eskimo.com (8.14.3/8.12.10/Submit) id oA1DlL0B024468;
Mon, 1 Nov 2010 06:47:21 -0700
Resent-Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 06:47:21 -0700
X-Authentication-Warning: ultra5.eskimo.com: smartlst set sender to
vortex-l-requ...@eskimo.com using -f
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to
 :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type
 :content-transfer-encoding;
bh=ku4KthIwJNzcOhsUazWEcUBr4vk/eRZXL0p6hCcXmXk=;
b=v0LFzxzRNPlE/8GYOwo9kjkUd/Avfqyuqdk4IsNnKMtIUowO3jrGvToFZAhDof1Clt
 GhWbP+6Ge8qflBYBIGbLYGO5892uElHGd25/qPrFmO9nC7i+t1l7KISJmZZ56ey2YTbR
 29N9oX18OfVrx+ABsUFhfWdNU2UzMHOQFMWJ4=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
 :content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
b=CNDlut/Ser3do3AKgzqE5cgWdyXFEiIjtuBxXwjZwiZAfr8OSZm1zewa1PZSi8PqgZ
 yElOEuMo4s3DgBeEaWVmM6sLv9ie8GUSwyKOGAxrqeBruBDDRiilsa0QlSHjr2jEAcZG
 /2HLtDgGIdG76ep1gRssTZvawkq8fVdvkE/1Q=
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <201010312315.o9vnfepe017...@ultra5.eskimo.com>
References: <20101031153756.zoifw.9870566.r...@mp08>
<201010312315.o9vnfepe017...@ultra5.eskimo.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 08:47:19 -0500
Message-ID: 
Subject: [Vo]:Test: Message sent from charter.net
From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson 
To: vortex-l 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Resent-Message-ID: 
Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
X-Mailing-List:  archive/latest/94471
X-Loop: vortex-l@eskimo.com
List-Post: 
List-Help: 
List-Subscribe: 
List-Unsubscribe: 
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vortex-l-requ...@eskimo.com

>From Abd:

> I want to throttle Charter.




Terry

Re: [Vo]:Test: Message sent from charter.net

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

Bottom line, and my computer is crashing every five minutes, probably 
a bad power supply, you misread the bounce message.


Eskimo problem, not a charter problem, per se. Read it again.

At 09:47 AM 11/1/2010, Steven V Johnson  wrote:

BTW, it does not come back as "SPAM". I just get an innocuous message
returned from Mail Administrator  as follows:
-

Date:   Monday, November 1, 2010 6:34 AM
From:   Mail Administrator Add to Addresses Block Sender
To: orionwo...@charter.net Add to Addresses
Subject:Mail System Error - Returned Mail
Size:   2 KB
Attachments:
[] (0.3 KB) [] (0.9 KB)

This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:

Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server.
The reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why
each recipient was rejected.

Recipient: 
Reason:5.7.1 ... Access denied

-


I'm baffled.


No wonder. The mail is not being blocked by charter, but by eskimo.com.

Problem for Mr. Beatty. The server was having lots of problems last 
week. I sent a message that did not go through. Jed also saw this.

Re: [Vo]:Test: Message sent from charter.net

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

At 03:37 PM 10/31/2010, OrionWorks wrote:
My Charter.net  email account is misbehaving and has been for over a 
week. Tells me all vortex-l messages are spam but I can locate the 
SPAM folder where presumably all the vortex-l messages have been 
shunted to. Charter sez I need to send a sample to their special 
unblocking staff, but if I can't locate a sample I can't give them anything.


I want to throttle Charter.


Instead of throttling them, how about sending them what they want? An 
example of a mail that bounced, as received by your google account. 
You should sent complete headers. If you need a vortex mail with 
complete headers, ask, one of us will send you a set. You should be 
able to receive it, since it will have headers from an individual sender


Charter also should be able to tell you where the rejected messages 
are stored. How did Charter "tell you" that the messages are spam?



Fortunately, Vortex-l works fine from my Google account.


Argument for having two accounts. It's really irritating when I have 
trouble with my domain host and can't get email that if I need to get 
a password, I can't receive it etc.

Re: [Vo]:Test message with tabular data 4

[Jed Rothwell]

Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:

Strong suggestion, Jed: don't send large files or serious graphical data or
> even tables requiring much formatting by email to a mailing list.
>

There is no point to using any HTML formatted tables, because
mail.archive.com squashes the life out of the tables, as Horace Heffner
pointed out. That's a darn shame.

I don't mind rudimentary formatting in electronic messages. Actually, I
prefer that. But this is a little too rudimentary. But heck, I was using
computers back when they were ALL CAPS WITH PUNCH CARDS AND PAPER TAPE AND
ASR 33 TELETYPES ("taka taka taka taka" -- Japanese sound effect) so I can
live with it.

*** EOF *** ("taka taka taka taka")

Re: [Vo]:Test message with tabular data 4

[Abd ul-Rahman Lomax]

Strong suggestion, Jed: don't send large files or serious graphical 
data or even tables requiring much formatting by email to a mailing list.


Instead, put it on a web site, either for direct display or for file 
download. And then send the link. It is much more flexible and 
preserves email bandwidth and avoids certain risks. (Sending a large 
mail to the many subscribers of a list can put a serious load on the 
mail server.) I do not allow attached files on any of the mailing 
lists I manage, because, then, a virus infection of one subscriber 
can propagate as a temptation to infection by the list subscribers.


(With a few viruses, and with unpatched operating systems, direct 
infection was possible, but *hopefully* most of those infection 
pathways have been closed. I do know that when I've had to reinstall 
an OS, particularly Windows XP or 2000, and then I connected to the 
internet, my computer was infected within minutes, I had to get a 
copy of Zone Alarm, install the OS and then Zone Alarm from CD, and 
then download the security updates but more recent versions are 
more resistant to this out of the box.)

Re: [Vo]:Test message with tabular data 4

[Harry Veeder]

try

toobigtosend.com   

(joke)

Harry



  __
Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot 
with the All-new Yahoo! Mail.  Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail 
today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca

Re: [Vo]:Test message with tabular data 4

[Horace Heffner]

On Feb 12, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:


Horace Heffner wrote:

It came through nicely on my Mac. However, HTML in general, and  
graphics in particular, are not good in the archives.  Graphics  
and some HTML or even rich text also do not show up properly at  
the online archives, www.mail-archive.com.


Ouch.


Happily, ascii graphics and blank line white space, which many  
Microsoft users don't get properly via plain text, show up nicely  
in the archives.


That's sorta hard to make. It there a program to convert tables  
into ascii graphics and blank spaces? It sounds like something I  
would have written in 1978.


- Jed



If you leave out the graphics and just print a table as rich text,   
that might work.  If it does not come out in columns, due to a  
variable font, you might be able to fix that by selecting the text  
and converting it to a fixed font. Converting to a small pitch (as I  
did below) is sometimes useful for getting everything to show up  
without line wrap for some people, and some lists, but the pitch in  
www.mail-archive.com is fixed, as is the line width, so everyone sees  
line wrap there is you exceed the maximum. I'm not sure what the  
maximum line width is for www.mail-archive.com but the scale  
following will help tell that. If it is a spreadsheet important to  
you and that you might refer to at a later date you might just covert  
it to a pdf, put it on your web site, and provide the URL instead.   
Even better is to convert to modifiable HTML spreadsheet format, so  
people can plug in their own data to affect the totals, do  
projections, etc.  Following is 10 pitch Courier, at least as I sent  
it anyway.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
. 
1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8. 
9
123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012 
345678901234567890

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg37685.html

[Vo]:Test message with tabular data 4
Jed Rothwell
Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:08:37 -0800

I just tried this with three messages which were probably too big. I  
think

40 KB is the limit.

Microsoft Word put this table out in HTML with enormous overhead.

This version is prepared with an HTML editor.

Britz database stats

Res+Res-Res0NoYearTotalPositiveNegativeUndecidedEvaluationPositive +
Undecided198920546832254681990248757641561161991130462918376419926522131 
119
331993663110817391994422033162319952919361251996482410773119973219247231 
998
331923922199923180141920001510014112001171120411200218920792003721042200 
4640

02420056222042006640115200755000520086200422009001007388238128253516


- Jed
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

And see:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg37686.html



Re: [Vo]:Test message with tabular data 4
Jed Rothwell
Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:11:50 -0800

Ah. That worked. Let me try HTML from on-line article:

The following table shows just how much more people consume in a serving
today compared to people in the 50s:
*Serving Sizes Then and Now**Food or beverage**1950s**Expanded 2003
portion*French
fries 2.4 ounces up to 7.1 ouncesFountain soda 7.0 ounces 12 to 64
ouncesHamburger
patty 1.6 ounces up to 8.0 ouncesHamburger sandwich 3.9 ounces 4.4 to  
12.6
ouncesMuffin 3.0 ounces 6.5 ouncesPasta serving 1.5 cups 3.0  
cupsChocolate

bar 1 ounce 2.6 to 8 ounces
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Best regards,

Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/

Re: [Vo]:Test message with tabular data 4

[Jed Rothwell]

Horace Heffner wrote:

It came through nicely on my Mac. However, HTML in general, and 
graphics in particular, are not good in the archives.  Graphics and 
some HTML or even rich text also do not show up properly at the 
online archives, www.mail-archive.com.


Ouch.


Happily, ascii graphics and blank line white space, which many 
Microsoft users don't get properly via plain text, show up nicely in 
the archives.


That's sorta hard to make. It there a program to convert tables into 
ascii graphics and blank spaces? It sounds like something I would 
have written in 1978.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Test message with tabular data 4

[Horace Heffner]

I just realized Microsoft Outlook users might not have seen my last  
email correctly, so here it is again in rich text.



On Feb 12, 2010, at 7:07 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:

I just tried this with three messages which were probably too big.  
I think 40 KB is the limit.


Microsoft Word put this table out in HTML with enormous overhead.

This version is prepared with an HTML editor.

Britz database stats

[snip]

It came through nicely on my Mac. However, HTML in general, and  
graphics in particular, are not good in the archives.  Graphics and  
some HTML or even rich text also do not show up properly at the  
online archives, www.mail-archive.com.  Happily, ascii graphics and  
blank line white space, which many Microsoft users don't get properly  
via plain text, show up nicely in the archives.


See:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg37685.html

[Vo]:Test message with tabular data 4
Jed Rothwell
Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:08:37 -0800

I just tried this with three messages which were probably too big. I  
think

40 KB is the limit.

Microsoft Word put this table out in HTML with enormous overhead.

This version is prepared with an HTML editor.

Britz database stats

Res+Res-Res0NoYearTotalPositiveNegativeUndecidedEvaluationPositive +
Undecided198920546832254681990248757641561161991130462918376419926522131 
119
331993663110817391994422033162319952919361251996482410773119973219247231 
998
331923922199923180141920001510014112001171120411200218920792003721042200 
4640

02420056222042006640115200755000520086200422009001007388238128253516


- Jed
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

And see:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg37686.html



Re: [Vo]:Test message with tabular data 4
Jed Rothwell
Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:11:50 -0800

Ah. That worked. Let me try HTML from on-line article:

The following table shows just how much more people consume in a serving
today compared to people in the 50s:
*Serving Sizes Then and Now**Food or beverage**1950s**Expanded 2003
portion*French
fries 2.4 ounces up to 7.1 ouncesFountain soda 7.0 ounces 12 to 64
ouncesHamburger
patty 1.6 ounces up to 8.0 ouncesHamburger sandwich 3.9 ounces 4.4 to  
12.6
ouncesMuffin 3.0 ounces 6.5 ouncesPasta serving 1.5 cups 3.0  
cupsChocolate

bar 1 ounce 2.6 to 8 ounces
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Best regards,

Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/

Re: [Vo]:Test message with tabular data 4

[Horace Heffner]

On Feb 12, 2010, at 7:07 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:

I just tried this with three messages which were probably too big.  
I think 40 KB is the limit.


Microsoft Word put this table out in HTML with enormous overhead.

This version is prepared with an HTML editor.

Britz database stats

[snip]

It came through nicely on my Mac. However, HTML in general, and  
graphics in particular, are not good in the archives.  Graphics and  
some HTML or even rich text also do not show up properly at the  
online archives, www.mail-archive.com.  Happily, ascii graphics and  
blank line white space, which many Microsoft users don't get properly  
via plain text, show up nicely in the archives.


See:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg37685.html

[Vo]:Test message with tabular data 4
Jed Rothwell
Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:08:37 -0800

I just tried this with three messages which were probably too big. I  
think

40 KB is the limit.

Microsoft Word put this table out in HTML with enormous overhead.

This version is prepared with an HTML editor.

Britz database stats

Res+Res-Res0NoYearTotalPositiveNegativeUndecidedEvaluationPositive +
Undecided198920546832254681990248757641561161991130462918376419926522131 
119
331993663110817391994422033162319952919361251996482410773119973219247231 
998
331923922199923180141920001510014112001171120411200218920792003721042200 
4640

02420056222042006640115200755000520086200422009001007388238128253516


- Jed
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

And see:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg37686.html



Re: [Vo]:Test message with tabular data 4
Jed Rothwell
Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:11:50 -0800

Ah. That worked. Let me try HTML from on-line article:

The following table shows just how much more people consume in a serving
today compared to people in the 50s:
*Serving Sizes Then and Now**Food or beverage**1950s**Expanded 2003
portion*French
fries 2.4 ounces up to 7.1 ouncesFountain soda 7.0 ounces 12 to 64
ouncesHamburger
patty 1.6 ounces up to 8.0 ouncesHamburger sandwich 3.9 ounces 4.4 to  
12.6
ouncesMuffin 3.0 ounces 6.5 ouncesPasta serving 1.5 cups 3.0  
cupsChocolate

bar 1 ounce 2.6 to 8 ounces
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Best regards,

Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/

Re: [Vo]:Test message with tabular data 4

[Alexander Hollins]

looks good to me.  a LOT of people on this list use non html email
readers though.

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
> Can the readers here see the two tables I just sent?
>
> The first one is from a spreadsheet output in HTML format. The second is
> copied from an on-line article.
>
> This is a neater, more readable way of posting tabular data here. Lots of
> overhead though . . .
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Test message with tabular data 4

[Terry Blanton]

Look fine.

40 kB is the *coded* limit.   Mime encoding adds about 25% overhead.
Word overhead over text on small messages is outrageous.  That's why
we made hypertext.

T

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
> Can the readers here see the two tables I just sent?
>
> The first one is from a spreadsheet output in HTML format. The second is
> copied from an on-line article.
>
> This is a neater, more readable way of posting tabular data here. Lots of
> overhead though . . .
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Test message with tabular data 4

[Jed Rothwell]

Can the readers here see the two tables I just sent?

The first one is from a spreadsheet output in HTML format. The second 
is copied from an on-line article.


This is a neater, more readable way of posting tabular data here. 
Lots of overhead though . . .


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Test message with tabular data 4

[Jed Rothwell]

Ah. That worked. Let me try HTML from on-line article:

The following table shows just how much more people consume in a serving
today compared to people in the 50s:
*Serving Sizes Then and Now**Food or beverage**1950s**Expanded 2003
portion*French
fries 2.4 ounces up to 7.1 ouncesFountain soda 7.0 ounces 12 to 64
ouncesHamburger
patty 1.6 ounces up to 8.0 ouncesHamburger sandwich 3.9 ounces 4.4 to 12.6
ouncesMuffin 3.0 ounces 6.5 ouncesPasta serving 1.5 cups 3.0 cupsChocolate
bar 1 ounce 2.6 to 8 ounces