Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On Wednesday, April 27, 2011 at 5:46 PM, Ian Bicking wrote: On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 5:21 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: > > I stumbled across https://apphosted.com as more web application package > > and format 'prior art'. It appears to be an App Engine competitor. > > According to their API document

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 5:21 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: > I stumbled across https://apphosted.com as more web application package > and format 'prior art'. It appears to be an App Engine competitor. According > to their API documentation, their deployment format is an archive containing > a single d

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

I stumbled across https://apphosted.com as more web application package and format 'prior art'. It appears to be an App Engine competitor. According to their API documentation, their deployment format is an archive containing a single directory with your WSGI program and a metro.config. They put

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

I am fine with the idea of passing a standard [YAML] container-resources configuration file to applications, but I mostly care about the orthogonal underlying 'copy a virtualenv to another server' use case. My proposal: site.py should honor a new environment variable PYTHONAPPBASE, similar to P

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

I have read it all but to me the consensus so far is unclear. I'm not sure we are talking about Ian's original suggestion 'make changes to the Silver Lining format to make it more general'. I thought the idea meant 'make a few changes to a virtualenv so it doesn't depend on the absolute filesyst

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On 2011-04-18 16:36:28 -0700, Daniel Holth said: On Apr 18, 2011, at 6:09 PM, Alice Bevan–McGregor wrote: I've already defined that.  RTFM or many ML messages about logging. Please remain friendly and patient.  That depends on how you define the F in RTFM. In this instance, I meant "read t

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On Apr 18, 2011, at 6:09 PM, Alice Bevan–McGregor wrote: > On 2011-04-18 14:11:21 -0700, Daniel Holth said: > >> If you want the format to specify cron jobs and services and non-wsgi >> servers, why not go the whole way and use the Linux filesystem hierarchy >> standard. The entry point is an

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

> If you want the format to specify cron jobs and services and non-wsgi > > servers, why not go the whole way and use the Linux filesystem > > hierarchy standard. The entry point is an executable called `init`, > > configuration goes in /etc/, cron jobs go in /etc/cron.d etc. This > > should b

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On 2011-04-18 14:11:21 -0700, Daniel Holth said: The file format discussion seems utterly pointless. That's a pity. If you want the format to specify cron jobs and services and non-wsgi servers, why not go the whole way and use the Linux filesystem hierarchy standard. The entry point is an

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

The file format discussion seems utterly pointless. Roberto de Ioris's uWSGI seems to make do with every file format. Would it be more useful to talk about what the deserialized configuration looks like in Python? If you want the format to specify cron jobs and services and non-wsgi servers, wh

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Alice Bevan–McGregor wrote: > I want to keep this distinct from anything long-running, which is a much >> more complex deal. >> > > The primary application is only potentially long-running. (You could, in > theory, deploy an app as CGI, but that way lies madness.)

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On 2011-04-14 10:34:59 -0700, Ian Bicking said: I think there's a general concept we should have, which I'll call a "script" -- but basically it's a script to run (__main__-style), a callable to call (module:name), or a URL to fetch internally. Agreed. The reference notation I mentioned in m

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

How do you build a release and upload it to PyPi? Upload docs to packages.python.org? setup.py commands. It's a convienent hook with access to metadata in a convienent way that would make an excellent "let's make a release!" type of command. setup.py should go away. The distutils2 talk from p

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On 2011-04-14 08:53:55 -0700, Randy Syring said: Just wondering if Windows/IIS is being kept in mind as this discussion is going on. I am having a hard time conceptualizing the things being discussed, so can't really tell myself. I'm trying pretty hard to ensure that non-compatible OS featur

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

I think there's a general concept we should have, which I'll call a "script" -- but basically it's a script to run (__main__-style), a callable to call (module:name), or a URL to fetch internally. I want to keep this distinct from anything long-running, which is a much more complex deal. I think

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 2:53 AM, Graham Dumpleton < graham.dumple...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 14 April 2011 16:57, Alice Bevan–McGregor wrote: > >> 3. Define how to get the WSGI app. This is WSGI specific, but (1) is > >> *not* WSGI specific (it's only Python specific, and would apply well to > >>

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On 04/14/2011 11:45 AM, Eric Larson wrote: ...regarding apache/nginx config if necessary, but basing that on the expectation there is a single script is a better approach than presuming a config can provide enough information to eventually create some script that apache/nginx/etc. might need t

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

Hi, On Apr 14, 2011, at 4:02 AM, Graham Dumpleton wrote: > On 14 April 2011 18:22, Alice Bevan–McGregor wrote: >> Howdy! >> >> I suspect you're thinking a little too low-level. > > Exactly, I am trying to walk before running. Things always fall down > here because people try and take too lar

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On 14 April 2011 18:22, Alice Bevan–McGregor wrote: > Howdy! > > I suspect you're thinking a little too low-level. Exactly, I am trying to walk before running. Things always fall down here because people try and take too large a leap rather than an incremental approach, solving one small problem

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

Howdy! I suspect you're thinking a little too low-level. On 2011-04-14 00:53:09 -0700, Graham Dumpleton said: On 14 April 2011 16:57, Alice Bevan–McGregor wrote: 3. Define how to get the WSGI app.  This is WSGI specific, but (1) is *not* WSGI specific (it's only Python specific, and would ap

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

Il giorno 14/apr/2011, alle ore 09.53, Graham Dumpleton ha scritto: > On 14 April 2011 16:57, Alice Bevan–McGregor wrote: >>> 3. Define how to get the WSGI app. This is WSGI specific, but (1) is >>> *not* WSGI specific (it's only Python specific, and would apply well to >>> other platforms) >>

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On 14 April 2011 16:57, Alice Bevan–McGregor wrote: >> 3. Define how to get the WSGI app.  This is WSGI specific, but (1) is >> *not* WSGI specific (it's only Python specific, and would apply well to >> other platforms) > > I could imagine there would be multiple "application types": > > :: WSGI a

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On 2011-04-13 18:16:36 -0700, Ian Bicking said: While initially reluctant to use zip files, after further discussion and thought they seem fine to me, so long as any tool that takes a zip file can also take a directory.  The reverse might not be true -- for instance, I'd like a way to install

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

While we are focusing on points of contention, there may be more points of consensus, but we aren't talking about those. So, some initial thoughts: While initially reluctant to use zip files, after further discussion and thought they seem fine to me, so long as any tool that takes a zip file can

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On Apr 11, 2011, at 10:03 PM, Alice Bevan–McGregor wrote: > Eric, > > Let me rephrase a few things. > > On 2011-04-11 17:48:14 -0700, Eric Larson said: > >> pre-install-hooks: [ >> "apt-get install libxml2", # the person deploying the package assumes >> apt-get is available > > Assumption

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

Eric, Let me rephrase a few things. On 2011-04-11 17:48:14 -0700, Eric Larson said: pre-install-hooks: [   "apt-get install libxml2",  # the person deploying the package assumes apt-get is available Assumptions are evil. You could end up with multiple third-party applications each assumin

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On Apr 11, 2011, at 6:47 PM, Alice Bevan–McGregor wrote: >> pre-install-hooks: [ >> "apt-get install libxml2", # the person deploying the package assumes >> apt-get is available >> "run-some-shell-script.sh", # the shell script might do the following on a >> list of URLs >> "wget http://

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On 2011-04-11 16:13:06 -0700, Ian Bicking said: (I'm confused; I just noticed there's a web-sig@python.org and python-web-...@googlegroups.com?) I only see one actual gmane group, gmane.comp.python.web... — Alice. ___ Web-SIG mailing list

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

pre-install-hooks: [   "apt-get install libxml2",  # the person deploying the package assumes apt-get is available   "run-some-shell-script.sh", # the shell script might do the following on a list of URLs   "wget http://mydomain.com/canonical/repo/dependency.tar.gz && tar zxf dependency.tar.gz

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

Howdy! On 2011-04-11 15:22:11 -0700, Ian Bicking said: I... think we are misunderstanding each other or something. Something. ;) A nice tool that could use this format, for instance, would be a tool that takes an app and creates a puppet recipe to setup a sever to host the application.  A

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

(I'm confused; I just noticed there's a web-sig@python.org and python-web-...@googlegroups.com?) On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 2:01 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: > We have more than 3 implementations of this idea, the Python Web > Application Package and Format or WAPAF, including Java's WAR files, Google >

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On Apr 11, 2011, at 2:48 PM, Alice Bevan–McGregor wrote: > On 2011-04-11 00:53:02 -0700, Eric Larson said: > >> Hi, >> On Apr 10, 2011, at 10:29 PM, Alice Bevan–McGregor wrote: >>> However, the package format I describe in that gist does include the source >>> for the dependencies as "snapshott

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 2:56 AM, Ionel Maries Cristian wrote: > Hello, > > I have few comments: > >- That file layout basically forces you to have your development >environment as close to the production environment. This is especially >visible if you're relying on python c extensions.

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On 2011-04-11 13:49:20 -0700, Alex Grönholm said: I use Ubuntu on all my servers, and "linux single" does not work with it, I can tell you ;P The number of poorly configured Ubuntu servers I have seen (and replaced) is staggering. Any time the barrier to entry is lowered, quality suffers: h

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Alice Bevan–McGregor wrote: > Howdy! > > > On 2011-04-10 19:06:52 -0700, Ian Bicking said: > > There's a significant danger that you'll be creating a configuration >> management tool at that point, not simply a web application description. >> > > Unless you have

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

11.04.2011 22:48, Alice Bevan–McGregor kirjoitti: On 2011-04-11 00:53:02 -0700, Eric Larson said: Hi, On Apr 10, 2011, at 10:29 PM, Alice Bevan–McGregor wrote: However, the package format I describe in that gist does include the source for the dependencies as "snapshotted" during bundling. I

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On 2011-04-11 00:53:02 -0700, Eric Larson said: Hi, On Apr 10, 2011, at 10:29 PM, Alice Bevan–McGregor wrote: However, the package format I describe in that gist does include the source for the dependencies as "snapshotted" during bundling. If your application is working in development, afte

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

We have more than 3 implementations of this idea, the Python Web Application Package and Format or WAPAF, including Java's WAR files, Google App Engine, silverlining. Let's review the WAR file, approximately: (static files, .jsp) WEB-INF/web.xml WEB-INF/classes/org/example/myapplication.class WE

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

Hello, I have few comments: - That file layout basically forces you to have your development environment as close to the production environment. This is especially visible if you're relying on python c extensions. Since you don't want to have the same environment constraints as appeng

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

Hi, On Apr 10, 2011, at 10:29 PM, Alice Bevan–McGregor wrote: > However, the package format I describe in that gist does include the source > for the dependencies as "snapshotted" during bundling. If your application > is working in development, after snapshotting it /will/ work on sandbox or

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

Howdy! On 2011-04-10 19:06:52 -0700, Ian Bicking said: There's a significant danger that you'll be creating a configuration management tool at that point, not simply a web application description. Unless you have the tooling to manage the applications, there's no point having a "standard" fo

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Alice Bevan–McGregor wrote: > On 2011-04-10 16:25:21 -0700, James Mills said: > > +1 too. I would however like to see this idea developed in a generic >> and useable way. ie: No zope/twisted deps or making it fit around >> Django :) >> Ideally it should be useable

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 9:40 AM, Alice Bevan–McGregor wrote: > The following are the collected ideas of myself and a few other users in the > WebCore chat room: > >        https://gist.github.com/911991 A couple of comments: 4. It would be nice to also support web applications that provide their

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

On 2011-04-10 16:25:21 -0700, James Mills said: +1 too. I would however like to see this idea developed in a generic and useable way. ie: No zope/twisted deps or making it fit around Django :) Ideally it should be useable by the most basic (plain old WSGI). The following are the collected idea

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

+1 too. I would however like to see this idea developed in a generic and useable way. ie: No zope/twisted deps or making it fit around Django :) Ideally it should be useable by the most basic (plain old WSGI). cheers James -- -- James Mills -- -- "Problems are solved by method" _

Re: [Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

+1 I think this is a fantastic idea. In the same way that distutils2 intends to specify a static configuration format for packages, having a good static configuration format for web applitations could make deployment easier while encouraging healthy competition among 'paste deploy' type projects.

[Web-SIG] A Python Web Application Package and Format

Hi all. I wrote a blog post. I would be interested in reactions from this crowd. http://blog.ianbicking.org/2011/03/31/python-webapp-package/ Copied to allow responses: At PyCon there was an open space about deployment, and the idea of drop-in applications (Java-WAR-style