Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit licensing and LGPLv3
Hi Maciej, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: 1) We will continue to accept only code that's licensed under a BSD-style (no advertising clause) license, or LGPL 2.1, or other compatible license. We don't want to accept code that's LGPL 3 only, as that would make the whole project LGPL 3. As I understand it, yes (standard IANAL disclaimer here). I have no objects with this. 2) We'd like to change the copyright notices from their current mix of "LGPL 2 or any later version" and "LGPL 2.1 or any later version" to just LGPL 2.1, to make this clear. This one is maybe more debatable, so I'd like to know if anyone objects. It would prevent incorporating WebKit code into LGPL 3 projects, and would require sign-off from all copyright holders to ever change to a different LGPL version in the future (in case the FSF came out with a version 3.1 or 4 that solved some of the problems with v3). I think sticking with "LGPL 2 or any later version" might be best for now. The reason I say this is it puts fewer limits on what GPL projects WebKit, or parts of WebKit (I suppose), can be incorporated into. Personally, I am not a big fan of (L)GPL v3 (although, I have not really followed it since the first draft), but I still think that it is good to be as less restrictive as possible, in certain senses. -Donald Kirker ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit Project Goals
Would it not be worth making an explicit goal of accessibility, or at least explicitly bracketing it under usability? -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis On 7/25/07, Maciej Stachowiak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I sent this a while ago with not much comment. Any thoughts? Should I post this on webkit.org somewhere? - Maciej On May 10, 2007, at 3:34 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > I recently watched a video on the topic of preventing poisonous > people from hurting an open source project. One of the practices it > recommends for a large open source project is to have a "mission > statement", so it's clear to everyone what is and isn't in scope for > the project. I'm not too fond of the name "mission statement" (it > sounds a little corporate) but I do think it's important to write > down our goals as a project. > > Ultimately I'd like to put this on the WebKit site, but I wanted to > throw out some ideas for discussion. I'd like to hear if anyone > thinks I have missed any project goals, if any of these are worded > badly, or if it is worth calling out more non-goals. > > > WebKit Project Goals > > WebKit is an open source Web content engine for browsers and other > applications. We value real-world web compatibility, standards > compliance, stability, performance, security, portability, usability > and relative ease of understanding and modifying the code > (hackability). > > Web Content Engine - The project's primary focus is content deployed > on the World Wide Web, using standards-based technologies such as > HTML, CSS, JavaScript and the DOM. However, we also want to make it > possible to embed WebKit in other applications, and to use it as a > general-purpose display and interaction engine. > > Open Source - WebKit should remain freely usable for both open > source and proprietary applications. To that end, we use BSD-style > and LGPL licenses. > > Compatibility - For users browsing the web, compatibility with their > existing sites is essential. We strive to maintain and improve > compatibility with existing web content, sometimes even at the > expense of standards. We use regression testing to maintain our > compatibility gains. > > Standards Compliance - WebKit aims for compliance with relevant web > standards, and support for new standards > In addition to improving compliance, we participate in the web > standards community to bring new technologies into standards, and to > make sure new standards are pratical to implement in our engine. We > use regression testing to maintain our standards compliance gains. > > Stability - The main WebKit code base should always maintain a high > degree of stability. This means that crashes, hangs and regressions > should be dealt with promptly, rather than letting them pile up. > > Performance - Maintaining and improving speed and memory use is an > important goal. We never consider performance "good enough", but > strive to constantly improve. As web content becomes richer and more > complex, and as web browsers run on more limited devices, > performance gains continue to have value even if normal browsing > seems fast enough. > > Security - Protecting users from security violations is critical. We > fix security issues promptly to protect users and maintain their > trust. > > Portability - The WebKit project seeks to address a variety of > needs. We want to make it reasonable to port WebKit to a variety of > desktop, mobile, embedded and other platforms. We will provide the > infrastructure to do this with tight platform integration, reusing > native platform services where appropriate and providing friendly > embedding APIs. > > Usability - To the extent that WebKit features affect the user > experience, we want them to work in accordance with good human > interface design principles, and to mesh well with platform-native > HI conventions. > > Hackability - To make rapid progress possible, we try to keep the > code relatively easy to understand, even though web technologies are > often complex. We try to use straightforward algorithms and data > structures when possible, we try to write clear, maintainable code, > and we continue to improve names and code structure to aid > understanding. When tricky "rocket science" code is truly needed to > solve some problem, we try to keep it bottled up behind clean > interfaces. > > > Non-Goals > > WebKit is an engine, not a browser. We do not plan to develop or > host a full-featured web browser based on WebKit. Others are welcome > to do so, of course. > > WebKit is an engineering project not a science project. For new > features to be adopted into WebKit, we strongly prefer for the > technology or at least the use case for it to be proven. > > WebKit is not a bundle of maximally general and reusable code - we > build some general-purpose parts, but only to the degree needed to > be a good web content engine. > > WebKit is not the solution to every problem. We focus on web > content, not complete solut
Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit licensing and LGPLv3
On Wednesday 25 July 2007 01:51, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: > 1) We will continue to accept only code that's licensed under a BSD- > style (no advertising clause) license, or LGPL 2.1, or other > compatible license. We don't want to accept code that's LGPL 3 only, > as that would make the whole project LGPL 3. > I think continuing to require "LGPL 2 or later" would be the most sane and most compatible. > 2) We'd like to change the copyright notices from their current mix of > "LGPL 2 or any later version" and "LGPL 2.1 or any later version" to > just LGPL 2.1, to make this clear. This one is maybe more debatable, > so I'd like to know if anyone objects. It would prevent incorporating > WebKit code into LGPL 3 projects, and would require sign-off from all > copyright holders to ever change to a different LGPL version in the > future (in case the FSF came out with a version 3.1 or 4 that solved > some of the problems with v3). > I object. I would like to reserve the right to integrate WebKit with LGPL 3 projects like future KDE libs. Though since we are talking LGPL the linking-issues are not that problematic, it would still make it easier if the project continued to include the "or later" clause. Regards `Allan ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
[webkit-dev] Embedding WebKit
Oliver beat me to the same question but thanks for the links Chris. I'm also looking at what's involved in embedding WebKit, rendering the output to memory and then using that as a texture - our application is cross platform but I see that Adobe AIR is too so my hopes are high :) --Callum Linden Lab/Second Life > Yes. That is how we use WebKit in Adobe AIR. Unfortunately we have > not submitted our code to svn yet. You can download the source from > http://opensource.adobe.com/. > Here is a link to the particular area of the depot that may interest > you: > http://opensource.adobe.com:8080/@md=d&cd=//webkit/M4/&c=R2n@//webkit/ > M4/WebKit/?ac=83 > Chris Brichford > Adobe Systems Inc. > On Jul 23, 2007, at 4:50 PM, Oliver Thompson wrote: >> Is is possible to embed WebKit in an application and >> render the output to memory instead of the screen? >> >> -=Oliver=- ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit Project Goals
On Jul 24, 2007, at 5:04 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: I sent this a while ago with not much comment. Any thoughts? Should I post this on webkit.org somewhere? I think you should! -- Darin ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit Project Goals
I sent this a while ago with not much comment. Any thoughts? Should I post this on webkit.org somewhere? - Maciej On May 10, 2007, at 3:34 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: Hi Everyone, I recently watched a video on the topic of preventing poisonous people from hurting an open source project. One of the practices it recommends for a large open source project is to have a "mission statement", so it's clear to everyone what is and isn't in scope for the project. I'm not too fond of the name "mission statement" (it sounds a little corporate) but I do think it's important to write down our goals as a project. Ultimately I'd like to put this on the WebKit site, but I wanted to throw out some ideas for discussion. I'd like to hear if anyone thinks I have missed any project goals, if any of these are worded badly, or if it is worth calling out more non-goals. WebKit Project Goals WebKit is an open source Web content engine for browsers and other applications. We value real-world web compatibility, standards compliance, stability, performance, security, portability, usability and relative ease of understanding and modifying the code (hackability). Web Content Engine - The project's primary focus is content deployed on the World Wide Web, using standards-based technologies such as HTML, CSS, JavaScript and the DOM. However, we also want to make it possible to embed WebKit in other applications, and to use it as a general-purpose display and interaction engine. Open Source - WebKit should remain freely usable for both open source and proprietary applications. To that end, we use BSD-style and LGPL licenses. Compatibility - For users browsing the web, compatibility with their existing sites is essential. We strive to maintain and improve compatibility with existing web content, sometimes even at the expense of standards. We use regression testing to maintain our compatibility gains. Standards Compliance - WebKit aims for compliance with relevant web standards, and support for new standards In addition to improving compliance, we participate in the web standards community to bring new technologies into standards, and to make sure new standards are pratical to implement in our engine. We use regression testing to maintain our standards compliance gains. Stability - The main WebKit code base should always maintain a high degree of stability. This means that crashes, hangs and regressions should be dealt with promptly, rather than letting them pile up. Performance - Maintaining and improving speed and memory use is an important goal. We never consider performance "good enough", but strive to constantly improve. As web content becomes richer and more complex, and as web browsers run on more limited devices, performance gains continue to have value even if normal browsing seems fast enough. Security - Protecting users from security violations is critical. We fix security issues promptly to protect users and maintain their trust. Portability - The WebKit project seeks to address a variety of needs. We want to make it reasonable to port WebKit to a variety of desktop, mobile, embedded and other platforms. We will provide the infrastructure to do this with tight platform integration, reusing native platform services where appropriate and providing friendly embedding APIs. Usability - To the extent that WebKit features affect the user experience, we want them to work in accordance with good human interface design principles, and to mesh well with platform-native HI conventions. Hackability - To make rapid progress possible, we try to keep the code relatively easy to understand, even though web technologies are often complex. We try to use straightforward algorithms and data structures when possible, we try to write clear, maintainable code, and we continue to improve names and code structure to aid understanding. When tricky "rocket science" code is truly needed to solve some problem, we try to keep it bottled up behind clean interfaces. Non-Goals WebKit is an engine, not a browser. We do not plan to develop or host a full-featured web browser based on WebKit. Others are welcome to do so, of course. WebKit is an engineering project not a science project. For new features to be adopted into WebKit, we strongly prefer for the technology or at least the use case for it to be proven. WebKit is not a bundle of maximally general and reusable code - we build some general-purpose parts, but only to the degree needed to be a good web content engine. WebKit is not the solution to every problem. We focus on web content, not complete solutions to every imaginable technology need. ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ w
[webkit-dev] WebKit licensing and LGPLv3
Hi Everyone, With the release of GPLv3 and LGPLv3, I'd like to take a moment to discuss WebKit licensing. LGPLv3 includes some restrictions beyond the previous version that make it difficult to accept for many key contributors and users of WebKit, including Apple. Given this, we'd like to keep the project at LGPL 2.1, to make sure it can be used in all the ways it is used today. To that end we'd like to do two things: 1) We will continue to accept only code that's licensed under a BSD- style (no advertising clause) license, or LGPL 2.1, or other compatible license. We don't want to accept code that's LGPL 3 only, as that would make the whole project LGPL 3. 2) We'd like to change the copyright notices from their current mix of "LGPL 2 or any later version" and "LGPL 2.1 or any later version" to just LGPL 2.1, to make this clear. This one is maybe more debatable, so I'd like to know if anyone objects. It would prevent incorporating WebKit code into LGPL 3 projects, and would require sign-off from all copyright holders to ever change to a different LGPL version in the future (in case the FSF came out with a version 3.1 or 4 that solved some of the problems with v3). Thoughts? Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] kiosk browser on Windows
On Jul 24, 2007, at 4:04 PM, Sam Carleton wrote: Folks, I have already written a kiosk browser for Windows using the WebControl (IE6 or IE7), but I need a cross platform browser and would prefer to use Safari rather then Firefox. Is it possible to use webkit on windows? Is there an open source kiosk program out there that will aid me in my efforts? WebKit on Windows is open source, however, some of the support libraries in Apple's Windows port are only licensed for use with Safari. It's possible that in the future there will be a version of the Windows port that does not depend on these libraries. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
[webkit-dev] kiosk browser on Windows
Folks, I have already written a kiosk browser for Windows using the WebControl (IE6 or IE7), but I need a cross platform browser and would prefer to use Safari rather then Firefox. Is it possible to use webkit on windows? Is there an open source kiosk program out there that will aid me in my efforts? Sam ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Embedding WebKit
Yes. That is how we use WebKit in Adobe AIR. Unfortunately we have not submitted our code to svn yet. You can download the source from http://opensource.adobe.com/. Here is a link to the particular area of the depot that may interest you: http://opensource.adobe.com:8080/@md=d&cd=//webkit/M4/&c=R2n@//webkit/ M4/WebKit/?ac=83 Chris Brichford Adobe Systems Inc. On Jul 23, 2007, at 4:50 PM, Oliver Thompson wrote: Is is possible to embed WebKit in an application and render the output to memory instead of the screen? -=Oliver=- __ __ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
