[libreoffice-website] Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
-- Header Originale --- Da : Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl A : website@libreoffice.org Cc : Data : Sun, 29 May 2011 22:36:48 +0200 Oggetto : Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers Hi Cor, With all this, I doubt if an extra layer, portal, that asks lots of energy to build and maintain, will add so much. For you and me and each of us, contributing in any area, it will probably haven been more or less the same: one looks around, lurks on the list for some time, until the feeling is there that it is time to stand up and start helping with testing, documentation, coding, ... I think you've a old school view of reality, where potential contributors come, spend X amount of time around and then decide what to do. I belong to the same old school. ;-) That's OK, but what if a sub-project needs help *now* and the request for help is posted in this list while the volunteers that have will, time and skills to perform such task, read the discuss and marketing lists only or visit the wiki only or the TDF website only or the LibO website only? The task would be still uncompleted and the volunteer still around to find what to do and, maybe, he/she may get tired of searching. This is fragmentation or balkanization and it grows as fast and large as linguistic differences and difficulties rises. A central and well advertised tool would lessen such fragmentation and increase efficency in completing pending tasks, IMO. However, by reading the devs list, I've understood that there's a strong resistence among developers to create new processes, though a part of them thinks they may help. I shouldn't insist in changing their minds and I surely won't insist, though I think it's a mistake. The next tests for this tool, that we'll do anyway, won't have a section for developers, at least not like the original one. There are other ideas now, among people who are working on this, and I think they may be useful. Regards, Gianluca -- Lettura gratuita o acquisto di libri e racconti di fantascienza, fantasy, horror, noir, narrativa fantastica e tradizionale: http://www.letturefantastiche.com/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
In data 29 maggio 2011 alle ore 00:16:24, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl ha
scritto:
But reading Gianlucas sentence again ('wannabe developers that have no
clue about where and how to ask for suggestions') I must say that I do
not understand either what my reply could help with that, since I guess
people with developing skills know IRC, bugtracker, ... so I do not
understand the problem at all. Sorry for the confusion.
Is there currently enough developing manpower to further improve the
project at a industrial pace? Have *all* *potential* external developers
(btw, how many are they and how many of them really contribute to the
project?) sufficiently knowledge about what help the *current* developers
need?
If the answer is yes to both questions, the developing part of LibO is
just perfect and we can delete any other mean of promotion for open dev
tasks/bugs.
I think there is a mentality difference between us: you spoke about people
that have *already* started working on the code while I speak about people
that haven't started, yet. The former ones are looking for help to satisfy
*their* own developing needs, the latter ones are looking for help to
satisfy the needs of the project.
However, maybe, I'm completely missing the point in your message, because
I suppose that *there are* developing needs of the project, based on a
engineering-driven model for developing LibO.
Am I wrong?
Regards,
Gianluca
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Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
Hi Gianluca, Cor, all,
On 29/05/2011 10:22, Gianluca Turconi wrote:
In data 29 maggio 2011 alle ore 00:16:24, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl
ha scritto:
But reading Gianlucas sentence again ('wannabe developers that have no
clue about where and how to ask for suggestions') I must say that I do
not understand either what my reply could help with that, since I
guess people with developing skills know IRC, bugtracker, ... so I do
not understand the problem at all. Sorry for the confusion.
Is there currently enough developing manpower to further improve the
project at a industrial pace? Have *all* *potential* external developers
(btw, how many are they and how many of them really contribute to the
project?) sufficiently knowledge about what help the *current*
developers need?
If the answer is yes to both questions, the developing part of LibO is
just perfect and we can delete any other mean of promotion for open dev
tasks/bugs.
I think there is a mentality difference between us: you spoke about
people that have *already* started working on the code while I speak
about people that haven't started, yet. The former ones are looking for
help to satisfy *their* own developing needs, the latter ones are
looking for help to satisfy the needs of the project.
However, maybe, I'm completely missing the point in your message,
because I suppose that *there are* developing needs of the project,
based on a engineering-driven model for developing LibO.
Am I wrong?
There are developing needs, for sure, but it's difficult to give
information to new comers without the direct input from the developers.
I think this is where Cor and your differences reside.
But I find your idea for an additional layer good. May be we can ask to
the students participating to the GSOC how they found there way and what
they miss? Even if it's a more structured experience than just a new
comer, it can help to underline the communication flows needed (or not).
Kind regards
Sophie
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Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
Le Sun, 29 May 2011 13:40:24 +0300,
Sophie Gautier gautier.sop...@gmail.com a écrit :
Hi Gianluca, Cor, all,
On 29/05/2011 10:22, Gianluca Turconi wrote:
In data 29 maggio 2011 alle ore 00:16:24, Cor Nouws
oo...@nouenoff.nl ha scritto:
But reading Gianlucas sentence again ('wannabe developers that
have no clue about where and how to ask for suggestions') I must
say that I do not understand either what my reply could help with
that, since I guess people with developing skills know IRC,
bugtracker, ... so I do not understand the problem at all. Sorry
for the confusion.
Is there currently enough developing manpower to further improve the
project at a industrial pace? Have *all* *potential* external
developers (btw, how many are they and how many of them really
contribute to the project?) sufficiently knowledge about what help
the *current* developers need?
If the answer is yes to both questions, the developing part of LibO
is just perfect and we can delete any other mean of promotion for
open dev tasks/bugs.
I think there is a mentality difference between us: you spoke about
people that have *already* started working on the code while I speak
about people that haven't started, yet. The former ones are looking
for help to satisfy *their* own developing needs, the latter ones
are looking for help to satisfy the needs of the project.
However, maybe, I'm completely missing the point in your message,
because I suppose that *there are* developing needs of the project,
based on a engineering-driven model for developing LibO.
Am I wrong?
There are developing needs, for sure, but it's difficult to give
information to new comers without the direct input from the
developers. I think this is where Cor and your differences reside.
But I find your idea for an additional layer good. May be we can ask
to the students participating to the GSOC how they found there way
and what they miss? Even if it's a more structured experience than
just a new comer, it can help to underline the communication flows
needed (or not).
Just my two cents here: to me this structure was thought to be an
entry-level platform to enable the input of possible bugs and features
by non-technical users , while enabling people who might not have been
too familiar with the development of LibreOffice to to become
acquainted to it. But to act as one source for developers'recruitment
would perhaps call a nuanced answer: developers do not need such a
platform ( a mere list of easy tasks is often enough) but developers
need specific information on what is wished. The conversion work
between an express need please repaint the whole screen in green to a
RFE (request for enhancement), as an example, has to be done by
someone who is interested in software development but who might not
have all the skills or the confidence to do it. Hence the relevance of
what I thought was Gianluca's proposal.
Best,
Charles.
Kind regards
Sophie
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Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
Hi Gianluca,
Gianluca Turconi wrote (29-05-11 09:22)
In data 29 maggio 2011 alle ore 00:16:24, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl
ha scritto:
But reading Gianlucas sentence again ('wannabe developers that have no
clue about where and how to ask for suggestions') I must say that I do
not understand either what my reply could help with that, since I
guess people with developing skills know IRC, bugtracker, ... so I do
not understand the problem at all. Sorry for the confusion.
Is there currently enough developing manpower to further improve the
project at a industrial pace? Have *all* *potential* external developers
(btw, how many are they and how many of them really contribute to the
project?) sufficiently knowledge about what help the *current*
developers need?
If the answer is yes to both questions, the developing part of LibO is
just perfect and we can delete any other mean of promotion for open dev
tasks/bugs.
I think there is a mentality difference between us: you spoke about
people that have *already* started working on the code while I speak
about people that haven't started, yet. The former ones are looking for
help to satisfy *their* own developing needs, the latter ones are
looking for help to satisfy the needs of the project.
However, maybe, I'm completely missing the point in your message,
because I suppose that *there are* developing needs of the project,
based on a engineering-driven model for developing LibO.
Am I wrong?
No and yes.
Of course there is always room, not to say need, for developers.
However, developers step in if - in their understanding - the project:
- is cool,
- uses or represents cutting edge, impressive or whatever technology,
- aligns with skills they have,
- is happy to except contributions and able to integrate those fast,
- is easy to build from master (ahum...)
- has active developers giving instant feedback on questions,
- ...
And of course there is BugZilla, while not easy for each and everyone,
will be a no-brainer for any (would be) developer. And there is the
wiki, with a special section for developers, easy hacks...
With all this, I doubt if an extra layer, portal, that asks lots of
energy to build and maintain, will add so much.
For you and me and each of us, contributing in any area, it will
probably haven been more or less the same: one looks around, lurks on
the list for some time, until the feeling is there that it is time to
stand up and start helping with testing, documentation, coding, ...
Communication means: ask if you need some help, or answer if you can
give some help and in the same time people learn to know each other a
bit, which is rather practical later on, when work has to be shared.
Anyway, that is my vision of 'reality' :-)
Kind regards,
Cor
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Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
In data 27 maggio 2011 alle ore 23:40:11, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@openoffice.org ha scritto: On 23/05/2011 Gianluca Turconi wrote: since few days I'm discussing a proposal about the creation of a employment-office-like collaboration tool for LibO volunteers. Here is my original proposal: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/LibreOfficeWiki/Proposed#Central_Employment-office-like_Web_Structure_for_LibreOffice_Volunteers It's a very interesting proposal, but I find it still too unspecified to start assessing tools (nobody wants lengthy discussions) or building broken-but-you-get-the-idea prototypes and castrating the project due to the constraints of a semi-random tool choice. Absolutely. As I've already explained in the Italian discuss list some days ago, the first test implementation of this tool has been severely limited to a specific CMS because of the as much limited available tech manpower. BTW, thanks to Daniele Pinna for his tech help. 1) The site must be fun to use. Not easy to use: FUN to use. It's a site for hundreds of people, not for the few that are highly committed and would contribute even without it. This must be priority #1 in design. +1 2) Success should not depend on developers using this site. LibreOffice developers, rightfully, oppose everything that could hinder their productivity, and reserve to choose their tools. There's plenty of non-developers tasks and the site could now really focus on these only. I strongly disagree on this point. Developers are several grade of magnitude more important than any other contributor for a *software* project like LibreOffice. Since expert developers don't grew on trees, there must be a mean, whatever mean, in order to increase occasional developing contributions and to transform those one-time contributions into a more reliable and expert contribution. I know developers have their bugzilla and their mailing lists, but when an independent, new developer approaches for the first time the project, he doesn't know anything about mailing lists (Libreoffice vs freedesktop.org ones?!), other developers' roles, tasks which he can complete. In a sentence: he doesn't know anything about how the dev part of the project works. I don't want to force developers to abandon bugzilla, it's impossible, but rather to provide a more friendly entry level for those new developers who approach the project, a mean that can be used to spread expertise about sinple and more complex dev tasks and to lessen the now very steep learning curve about how the LibO code works. 3) The site must provide Faceted search for tasks: one can progressively narrow down the results to find all tasks needing knowledge of Italian and less than a day and easy-medium difficulty, by clicking suitable values on the Language, Duration and Difficulty panels. In images: http://www.lucidimagination.com/files/image/articles/faceting/CNET_faceted_search.jpg (just found with a search engine, I'm not affiliated with that site). + 1 4) It shouldn't be necessary to register; optimally, the site would just use cookies like bit.ly does, at least for the first session. I also think that registration should not be necessary, but the confirmation of starting a task is absolutely needed, otherwise in single-action tasks, more people may duplicate their work and get so a lot of frustration. 5) Cooperating should be rewarding; not (or not only) money as specified in the proposal, but bonus points that allow to identify the best contributors (may conflict with 4, but there could be some hybrid way, i.e., asking for an e-mail account and registering users this way, by sending them an e-mail in background). A stars system? You get some points for each contribution and 1 star every X points. When you achieve the 5 stars contributor status, you can be universally considered an important LibO contributor. 6) The site must support free tagging: if the Italian community wants to post a series of tasks tagged libo34it, they should be able to do it. Uhm... -1 I think freedom of tagging may create a uncontrolled proliferation of tags and further linguistic fragmentation (besides needed translations), exactly what we want to avoid with this tool. 7) There must be an interface to clone an existing task. Optimally, to clone a series of existing tasks. I envision Italo having to clone all the Translate LibreOffice 3.3.3 Release Notes to Italian/French/German tasks to the corresponding 3.3.4 ones with one click. That would spare a *lot* of time. 8) Links should be easy to refer and use, like http://SITENAME.libreoffice.org/task/308 http://SITENAME.libreoffice.org/tasks/308+313+318+323 http://SITENAME.libreoffice.org/tag/libo34it so that people could refer to task 308 and link to it easily. +1 9) Upon marking a task completed, the system should select the closest ones and propose them as further work. Like YouTube, if
Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
Gianluca Turconi wrote: Developers are several grade of magnitude more important than any other contributor for a *software* project like LibreOffice. Absolutely true. Since expert developers don't grew on trees, there must be a mean, whatever mean, in order to increase occasional developing contributions and to transform those one-time contributions into a more reliable and expert contribution. I think that developers are already working on this issue, as the number of more regular contributors is increasing. Anyway, I would ask developers how can we help them in improving the mechanism, and making it more visible. I know developers have their bugzilla and their mailing lists, but when an independent, new developer approaches for the first time the project, he doesn't know anything about mailing lists (Libreoffice vs freedesktop.org ones?!), other developers' roles, tasks which he can complete. In a sentence: he doesn't know anything about how the dev part of the project works. The easy hacks mechanism created by Michael and Caolan, with the help of the other core developers, seems to work for those willing to get their hands dirty. I think that development wise we should just make the story more popular, and help in forwarding would be developers into the easy hacks area. Once they start working at these tasks, they have their own ways to nurture the process. I don't want to force developers to abandon bugzilla, it's impossible, but rather to provide a more friendly entry level for those new developers who approach the project, a mean that can be used to spread expertise about sinple and more complex dev tasks and to lessen the now very steep learning curve about how the LibO code works. Developers use quite a lot IRC channels. It is a parallel world, at least I see it as a parallel world. -- Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com Mobile +39.348.5653829 VoIP: +39.02.320621813 Skype: italovignoli -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
Hi Wolf, On 28/05/2011 02:36, Wolf Halton wrote: This is a huge idea and I can see ways that it would be applicable to any large opensource project. I know of several people who would be helping out if they could do it without first getting into the party and learning who is who. 11. There should be some feedback from somebody or a team of people who can let the volunteer worker know if they are doing the task right, and some way to check an item complete. Something like a project oversight board to ok a change. This will be done by the team who added/requested the task, imho no need to have somebody dedicated to that, we don't have so many resources. Kind regards Sophie -- Founding member of The Document Foundation -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
In data 28 maggio 2011 alle ore 11:34:49, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com ha scritto: The easy hacks mechanism created by Michael and Caolan, with the help of the other core developers, seems to work for those willing to get their hands dirty. I think that development wise we should just make the story more popular, and help in forwarding would be developers into the easy hacks area. Once they start working at these tasks, they have their own ways to nurture the process. Well, you can see that I've just used easy hacks as task examples for the central tool: http://libreoffice.dapinna.com/it/contribuisci-con-il-tuo-tempo-e-o-le-tue-capacità/18-programmatore/compiti-semplici-per-sviluppatori.html I'd like it was clear that this new tool should be *a* tool to manage contributions, not *the* tool as far as code contribution concerns. Developers use quite a lot IRC channels. It is a parallel world, at least I see it as a parallel world. Speaking frankly, I have to say I've never liked this attitude in OSS projects. It limits spreading expertise about the code by not providing good enough dev documentation that, I know, developers doesn't like to write or haven't time to write. However, I don't want to change what they're used to, but I'd like to see an additional work layer that will provide some kind of guided introduction or tutorship for those wannabe developers that have no clue about where and how to ask for suggestions. Regards, Gianluca -- Lettura gratuita o acquisto di libri e racconti di fantascienza, fantasy, horror, noir, narrativa fantastica e tradizionale: http://www.letturefantastiche.com/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
Gianluca Turconi wrote: I'd like it was clear that this new tool should be *a* tool to manage contributions, not *the* tool as far as code contribution concerns. I understood it this way. It limits spreading expertise about the code by not providing good enough dev documentation that, I know, developers doesn't like to write or haven't time to write. I think they're just different, but if you don't get their trust they'll never follow you. However, I don't want to change what they're used to, but I'd like to see an additional work layer that will provide some kind of guided introduction or tutorship for those wannabe developers that have no clue about where and how to ask for suggestions. Me too, but in order to achieve this objective we must play the right game with developers. If they don't get the meaning of the proposal, they tend to be slightly radical with their reactions. -- Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com Mobile +39.348.5653829 VoIP: +39.02.320621813 Skype: italovignoli -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
2011/5/28 Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com However, I don't want to change what they're used to, but I'd like to see an additional work layer that will provide some kind of guided introduction or tutorship for those wannabe developers that have no clue about where and how to ask for suggestions. Me too, but in order to achieve this objective we must play the right game with developers. If they don't get the meaning of the proposal, they tend to be slightly radical with their reactions. So, will the approach be...? :-) Regards, Gianluca -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
Gianluca Turconi wrote: However, I don't want to change what they're used to, but I'd like to see an additional work layer that will provide some kind of guided introduction or tutorship for those wannabe developers that have no clue about where and how to ask for suggestions. What do you need yourself? Or - the other way round - if you start working on code, and do miss something, isn't it the obvious (open source) way to contribute to/with a piece that solves what is missing? Cheers, Cor -- - http://nl.libreoffice.org - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation - -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
Hi Cor, all, On 28/05/2011 20:58, Cor Nouws wrote: Gianluca Turconi wrote: However, I don't want to change what they're used to, but I'd like to see an additional work layer that will provide some kind of guided introduction or tutorship for those wannabe developers that have no clue about where and how to ask for suggestions. What do you need yourself? Or - the other way round - if you start working on code, and do miss something, isn't it the obvious (open source) way to contribute to/with a piece that solves what is missing? Cor, allo, I don't understand what you want to say, could you explain ? Cheers Sophie -- Founding member of The Document Foundation -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
Hi Sophie,
Sophie Gautier wrote (28-05-11 20:48)
On 28/05/2011 20:58, Cor Nouws wrote:
Gianluca Turconi wrote:
However, I don't want to change what they're used to, but I'd like to
see an additional work layer that will provide some kind of guided
introduction or tutorship for those wannabe developers that have no
clue about where and how to ask for suggestions.
What do you need yourself?
Or - the other way round - if you start working on code, and do miss
something, isn't it the obvious (open source) way to contribute to/with
a piece that solves what is missing?
Cor, allo, I don't understand what you want to say, could you explain ?
Allo Sophie ;-)
What I wrote was from the thought that it is logic in open source that
you directly work on topics that matter for your contribution.
But reading Gianlucas sentence again ('wannabe developers that have no
clue about where and how to ask for suggestions') I must say that I do
not understand either what my reply could help with that, since I guess
people with developing skills know IRC, bugtracker, ... so I do not
understand the problem at all. Sorry for the confusion.
Cor
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Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
On 23/05/2011 Gianluca Turconi wrote: since few days I'm discussing a proposal about the creation of a employment-office-like collaboration tool for LibO volunteers. Here is my original proposal: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/LibreOfficeWiki/Proposed#Central_Employment-office-like_Web_Structure_for_LibreOffice_Volunteers It's a very interesting proposal, but I find it still too unspecified to start assessing tools (nobody wants lengthy discussions) or building broken-but-you-get-the-idea prototypes and castrating the project due to the constraints of a semi-random tool choice. These are the first 10 items that, after reading all related discussions I got exposed to in all mailing lists, I believe should be included in the proposal before thinking about tools or prototypes: 1) The site must be fun to use. Not easy to use: FUN to use. It's a site for hundreds of people, not for the few that are highly committed and would contribute even without it. This must be priority #1 in design. 2) Success should not depend on developers using this site. LibreOffice developers, rightfully, oppose everything that could hinder their productivity, and reserve to choose their tools. There's plenty of non-developers tasks and the site could now really focus on these only. 3) The site must provide Faceted search for tasks: one can progressively narrow down the results to find all tasks needing knowledge of Italian and less than a day and easy-medium difficulty, by clicking suitable values on the Language, Duration and Difficulty panels. In images: http://www.lucidimagination.com/files/image/articles/faceting/CNET_faceted_search.jpg (just found with a search engine, I'm not affiliated with that site). 4) It shouldn't be necessary to register; optimally, the site would just use cookies like bit.ly does, at least for the first session. 5) Cooperating should be rewarding; not (or not only) money as specified in the proposal, but bonus points that allow to identify the best contributors (may conflict with 4, but there could be some hybrid way, i.e., asking for an e-mail account and registering users this way, by sending them an e-mail in background). 6) The site must support free tagging: if the Italian community wants to post a series of tasks tagged libo34it, they should be able to do it. 7) There must be an interface to clone an existing task. Optimally, to clone a series of existing tasks. I envision Italo having to clone all the Translate LibreOffice 3.3.3 Release Notes to Italian/French/German tasks to the corresponding 3.3.4 ones with one click. 8) Links should be easy to refer and use, like http://SITENAME.libreoffice.org/task/308 http://SITENAME.libreoffice.org/tasks/308+313+318+323 http://SITENAME.libreoffice.org/tag/libo34it so that people could refer to task 308 and link to it easily. 9) Upon marking a task completed, the system should select the closest ones and propose them as further work. Like YouTube, if you wish. 10) The site must be based on Free Software infrastructure, and this is not really a limit since there are plenty of systems allowing your requirements and my requirements. Sorry if I made a step backwards and brought the discussion back to specifications, but before assessing tools I think a clearer vision is needed: as I wrote, this is not an ordinary site for specialists but an inclusive platform for the masses, and it needs extra care in planning; if you don't think so, just go on with prototypes, no problem. Regards, Andrea. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
This is a huge idea and I can see ways that it would be applicable to any large opensource project. I know of several people who would be helping out if they could do it without first getting into the party and learning who is who. 11. There should be some feedback from somebody or a team of people who can let the volunteer worker know if they are doing the task right, and some way to check an item complete. Something like a project oversight board to ok a change. Wolf On May 27, 2011 5:40 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@openoffice.org wrote: On 23/05/2011 Gianluca Turconi wrote: since few days I'm discussing a proposal about the creation of a employment-office-like collaboration tool for LibO volunteers. Here is my original proposal: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/LibreOfficeWiki/Proposed#Central_Employment-office-like_Web_Structure_for_LibreOffice_Volunteers It's a very interesting proposal, but I find it still too unspecified to start assessing tools (nobody wants lengthy discussions) or building broken-but-you-get-the-idea prototypes and castrating the project due to the constraints of a semi-random tool choice. These are the first 10 items that, after reading all related discussions I got exposed to in all mailing lists, I believe should be included in the proposal before thinking about tools or prototypes: 1) The site must be fun to use. Not easy to use: FUN to use. It's a site for hundreds of people, not for the few that are highly committed and would contribute even without it. This must be priority #1 in design. 2) Success should not depend on developers using this site. LibreOffice developers, rightfully, oppose everything that could hinder their productivity, and reserve to choose their tools. There's plenty of non-developers tasks and the site could now really focus on these only. 3) The site must provide Faceted search for tasks: one can progressively narrow down the results to find all tasks needing knowledge of Italian and less than a day and easy-medium difficulty, by clicking suitable values on the Language, Duration and Difficulty panels. In images: http://www.lucidimagination.com/files/image/articles/faceting/CNET_faceted_search.jpg (just found with a search engine, I'm not affiliated with that site). 4) It shouldn't be necessary to register; optimally, the site would just use cookies like bit.ly does, at least for the first session. 5) Cooperating should be rewarding; not (or not only) money as specified in the proposal, but bonus points that allow to identify the best contributors (may conflict with 4, but there could be some hybrid way, i.e., asking for an e-mail account and registering users this way, by sending them an e-mail in background). 6) The site must support free tagging: if the Italian community wants to post a series of tasks tagged libo34it, they should be able to do it. 7) There must be an interface to clone an existing task. Optimally, to clone a series of existing tasks. I envision Italo having to clone all the Translate LibreOffice 3.3.3 Release Notes to Italian/French/German tasks to the corresponding 3.3.4 ones with one click. 8) Links should be easy to refer and use, like http://SITENAME.libreoffice.org/task/308 http://SITENAME.libreoffice.org/tasks/308+313+318+323 http://SITENAME.libreoffice.org/tag/libo34it so that people could refer to task 308 and link to it easily. 9) Upon marking a task completed, the system should select the closest ones and propose them as further work. Like YouTube, if you wish. 10) The site must be based on Free Software infrastructure, and this is not really a limit since there are plenty of systems allowing your requirements and my requirements. Sorry if I made a step backwards and brought the discussion back to specifications, but before assessing tools I think a clearer vision is needed: as I wrote, this is not an ordinary site for specialists but an inclusive platform for the masses, and it needs extra care in planning; if you don't think so, just go on with prototypes, no problem. Regards, Andrea. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
