Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata links
Hi Michael,
answers inline.
2012/7/26 Michael Smethurst :
> Very delayed reply but think I'm still confused on this. Made a picture to
> clear my mind but not sure it works:
> http://smethur.st/wikidata
>
> The bit I think I get:
> If I request
> http://en.wikidata.org/wiki/Berlin
> Or
> http://en.wikidata.org/title/Berlin
> I get a 301? to:
303, but otherwise correct.
> http://wikidata.org/title/en:Berlin
> The html wiki page
>
> But not sure I understand the machine readable part [1]
>
> Bullet point 1 says
> http://wikidata.org/id/Q{id}
> Resolves to the appropriate url depending on the request header
>
> Does resolve mean a redirect? Is that a 303?
Yes, it is a 303 redirect.
> Or is there no redirect and the "thing" uri returns content?
>
> What's the "appropriate url"?
It says "the appropriate URL depending on the request header", i.e. it
depends on the ACCEPT header if you get the HTML page or the data.
> http://wikidata.org/data/Q{id}
> Or
> http://wikidata.org/data/Q{id}?format={format}&language={language}
> ?
The former I'd say, but this is not completely settled yet.
> Bullet point 2 says
> http://en.wikidata.org/item/Berlin
> Also resolves to the appropriate url. Is that a redirect? What's the
> appropriate url?
As above. It depends on the ACCEPT header.
Also, this is merely a convenience URI.
> Is there content negotiation happening from
> http://wikidata.org/wiki/Q{id}
>
> Or just from
> http://wikidata.org/id/Q{id}
Just from the latter. Not on the former.
> What happens if I request
> http://wikidata.org/id/Q{id}
> And accept only html?
303 redirect to http://wikidata.org/wiki/Q{id}
> Is there content negotiation from
> http://wikidata.org/data/Q{id}
> Or do I have to use parameters to get different representations?
No content negotiation intended here. Maybe the latter. We are not
sure yet about the supported formats and how this will work.
> Is there a better picture
No, you made the best one so far.
> Sorry to be thick
> Michael
Sorry for having explained it badly. I hope this helps!
Denny
> [1]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Notes/URI_scheme#Machine-readable_a
> ccess
>
>
> On 06/07/2012 18:20, "Gregor Hagedorn" wrote:
>
>> Thanks Denny, I largely see your points. The distinction between
>> convenience = webservice to redirect to canonical URL and canonical
>> URL could perhaps be made clearer in the note. I read it as parallel
>> URIs rather than as a redirecting service. To me the word
>> "convenience" has a different implication, but this may be entirely my
>> fault, I am not a native speaker either. I also agree on the choice of
>> language prefixes, confusing as it may be, I should have know. The
>> data plus wikidata is still confusing, but I guess you cannot avoid
>> that one?
>>
>>
>> About the Q in front of identifiers: At the moment I see the item
>> numbers being used in rdf:resource/about, but I understand that you
>> may need them as element names? My understanding was that properties
>> will be prefixed by Property: anyways.
>>
>> In any event: I find the argument that a rare letter like Q is good
>> branding not very convincing. I would suggest then a more memnonic
>> choice, like WD2348972 or W2348972 instead. I believe the Q as prefix
>> used in all canonical inbound links will be puzzling many people and
>> end the explanation having to end up in the FAQ.
>>
>> thanks again!
>>
>> Gregor
>>
>> ___
>> Wikidata-l mailing list
>> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
>
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/
> This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal
> views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.
> If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
> Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance
> on it and notify the sender immediately.
> Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
> Further communication will signify your consent to this.
>
>
> ___
> Wikidata-l mailing list
> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
--
Project director Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. +49-30-219 158 26-0 | http://wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
___
Wikidata-l mailing list
Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata links
Very delayed reply but think I'm still confused on this. Made a picture to
clear my mind but not sure it works:
http://smethur.st/wikidata
The bit I think I get:
If I request
http://en.wikidata.org/wiki/Berlin
Or
http://en.wikidata.org/title/Berlin
I get a 301? to:
http://wikidata.org/title/en:Berlin
The html wiki page
But not sure I understand the machine readable part [1]
Bullet point 1 says
http://wikidata.org/id/Q{id}
Resolves to the appropriate url depending on the request header
Does resolve mean a redirect? Is that a 303?
Or is there no redirect and the "thing" uri returns content?
What's the "appropriate url"?
http://wikidata.org/data/Q{id}
Or
http://wikidata.org/data/Q{id}?format={format}&language={language}
?
Bullet point 2 says
http://en.wikidata.org/item/Berlin
Also resolves to the appropriate url. Is that a redirect? What's the
appropriate url?
Is there content negotiation happening from
http://wikidata.org/wiki/Q{id}
Or just from
http://wikidata.org/id/Q{id}
What happens if I request
http://wikidata.org/id/Q{id}
And accept only html?
Is there content negotiation from
http://wikidata.org/data/Q{id}
Or do I have to use parameters to get different representations?
Is there a better picture
Sorry to be thick
Michael
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Notes/URI_scheme#Machine-readable_a
ccess
On 06/07/2012 18:20, "Gregor Hagedorn" wrote:
> Thanks Denny, I largely see your points. The distinction between
> convenience = webservice to redirect to canonical URL and canonical
> URL could perhaps be made clearer in the note. I read it as parallel
> URIs rather than as a redirecting service. To me the word
> "convenience" has a different implication, but this may be entirely my
> fault, I am not a native speaker either. I also agree on the choice of
> language prefixes, confusing as it may be, I should have know. The
> data plus wikidata is still confusing, but I guess you cannot avoid
> that one?
>
>
> About the Q in front of identifiers: At the moment I see the item
> numbers being used in rdf:resource/about, but I understand that you
> may need them as element names? My understanding was that properties
> will be prefixed by Property: anyways.
>
> In any event: I find the argument that a rare letter like Q is good
> branding not very convincing. I would suggest then a more memnonic
> choice, like WD2348972 or W2348972 instead. I believe the Q as prefix
> used in all canonical inbound links will be puzzling many people and
> end the explanation having to end up in the FAQ.
>
> thanks again!
>
> Gregor
>
> ___
> Wikidata-l mailing list
> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
http://www.bbc.co.uk/
This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal
views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.
If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on
it and notify the sender immediately.
Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
Further communication will signify your consent to this.
___
Wikidata-l mailing list
Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata links
Thanks Denny, I largely see your points. The distinction between convenience = webservice to redirect to canonical URL and canonical URL could perhaps be made clearer in the note. I read it as parallel URIs rather than as a redirecting service. To me the word "convenience" has a different implication, but this may be entirely my fault, I am not a native speaker either. I also agree on the choice of language prefixes, confusing as it may be, I should have know. The data plus wikidata is still confusing, but I guess you cannot avoid that one? About the Q in front of identifiers: At the moment I see the item numbers being used in rdf:resource/about, but I understand that you may need them as element names? My understanding was that properties will be prefixed by Property: anyways. In any event: I find the argument that a rare letter like Q is good branding not very convincing. I would suggest then a more memnonic choice, like WD2348972 or W2348972 instead. I believe the Q as prefix used in all canonical inbound links will be puzzling many people and end the explanation having to end up in the FAQ. thanks again! Gregor ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata links
Hi Gregor,
thanks for your great comments! I am trying to answer them here.
2012/7/5 Gregor Hagedorn :
> On
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Notes/URI_scheme#Proposal_for_Wikidata
> I am missing the arguments why Wikidata needs the multitude of URI
> forms. The list needs commenting and arguments why
>
> "URIs should be canonical within Wikimedia projects"
>
> is given up.
>
It is not. There is a canonical form. This does not mean it is the
only one, but every other form can be canonicalized into the canonical
one, and tools should work with that. (This is the same meaning as
with titles in Wikipedia: whereas both
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama are URLs for the article on
Barack Obama, only the latter one is canonical -- the first one is
just a convenience URL).
> (Of lesser importance, I wonder why the internal opaque ID has to be
> prefixed by a letter (Q) - why not a simple number?)
Originally this comes from a limitation in XML: the local part of a
QName must not start with a number, so we prefixed it with a letter.
As most export formats should also work in XML, we took that as an
important enough restriction to make it move into our Identifiers.
Furthermore, using a letter like Q which is rather seldom otherwise
increases the likelihood of a Wikidata ID being recognized with little
context (i.e. in a text, Q7237 will be in the end more readily
recognized as a Wikidata ID than 7237 alone).
> At them moment I believe a choice should be made between:
> http://{site}.wikidata.org/wiki/{title} and
> http://wikidata.org/title/{site}:{title}
> but perhaps the argument why both are needed could be added.
This is for merely technical reasons. Both URLs are convenience URLs
anyway. The canonical one is the one with the ID.
> On the issue of interlanguage/interwiki linking, I believe the
> semantics should not be opposite in Wikidata and Wikipedias, see my
> comment
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikidata/Notes/Wiki_links
Added comment there. In short, the current proposal is actually more
consistent over all the Wikimedia-projects, which means it is
inconsistent how it is handled "internally" within the
Wikipedia-projects. This means that the current suggestion is more or
less what the software already does, and does not require much
additional implementation.
>
> Gregor
Cheers,
Denny
--
Project director Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. +49-30-219 158 26-0 | http://wikimedia.de
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
___
Wikidata-l mailing list
Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
