[Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
(moved from wikimania-jury and wikimania-planning lists to here at the advice of Lodewijk) Hi all, My comments below express my personal opinion only, which is not necessarily representative of the opinion of WM Israel or of the WM Haifa local team. As someone who attended Wikimania 2007, 2010 and is now spending countless hours together with other team members on preparing WM 2011, I wanted to raise a somewhat controversial idea, namely that in future years, Wikimania will be held once every two years (biannually) and not annually. The reason I'm saying this is not only the huge effort that has to be invested by the local team year after year, but what is potentially a lack of strong bids to host Wikimania 2012, as witnessed by this year's jury. Even if strong bids emerge for 2012 eventually, I'm sure that in years to come the problem will repeat and again we might face a situation where there are no strong bids at all. To me, the lack of strong bids is an indicator that holding a big, expensive and complex international conference in a changing location year after year is not very realistic in the long term - and Wikimania is just becoming ever more big, expensive and complex (for example, WM2011 will see at least three side events preceding/co-locating with it). Few international organizations do that. In fact, many international conferences such as the International Congress of Mathematicians are held every 4 years! I don't think it will be a bad sign for the Wikimedia movement / foundation to decide to hold Wikimania every two years, just a realistic understanding on its part that the tradition of annual Wikimanias is not very practical. I hope that eventually, someone will have the decision power and the courage to take this decision - if not for 2012 (I'm not advocating to skip WM2012 specifically, that's not my agenda), then in the future. Your thoughts? Yours, Harel Cain Wikimania 2011 local team (but speaking personally) ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 12:44, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org wrote: To me, the lack of strong bids is an indicator that holding a big, expensive and complex international conference in a changing location year after year is not very realistic in the long term - and Wikimania is just becoming ever more big, expensive and complex (for example, WM2011 will see at least three side events preceding/co-locating with it). Maybe the problem is that every conference tries to do better/bigger then the previous ones? Which can quickly lead to 'too big/complicated' Few international organizations do that. In fact, many international conferences such as the International Congress of Mathematicians are held every 4 years! I don't think it will be a bad sign for the Wikimedia movement / foundation to decide to hold Wikimania every two years, just a realistic understanding on its part that the tradition of annual Wikimanias However, most other fields have several conferences a year where people meet each other. I'm not sure we have enough events that allow real international 'mingling' to take place. In my experience most conferences we have are very local events, and there is real benefit from interacting in person with a wider community then the local one. Finne ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Finne Boonen hen...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 12:44, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org wrote: To me, the lack of strong bids is an indicator that holding a big, expensive and complex international conference in a changing location year after year is not very realistic in the long term - and Wikimania is just becoming ever more big, expensive and complex (for example, WM2011 will see at least three side events preceding/co-locating with it). Maybe the problem is that every conference tries to do better/bigger then the previous ones? Which can quickly lead to 'too big/complicated' Few international organizations do that. In fact, many international conferences such as the International Congress of Mathematicians are held every 4 years! I don't think it will be a bad sign for the Wikimedia movement / foundation to decide to hold Wikimania every two years, just a realistic understanding on its part that the tradition of annual Wikimanias However, most other fields have several conferences a year where people meet each other. I'm not sure we have enough events that allow real international 'mingling' to take place. In my experience most conferences we have are very local events, and there is real benefit from interacting in person with a wider community then the local one. I am a bit with Harel on this one. However, I agree with you Finne. To me, the solution would be to have a rotating (yes, the big R word) international event every other year (ie. it would be decided _in advance_ which continent wikimania is happening on) and allow/foster more regional international meetings the year in between. This would allow for the following: * Regions could gather experience in putting together bigger events * International mingling still occurs, if on a smaller scale, and nobody prevents anyone from the US to participate in a European event, or anyone from Africa to participate in a South American event. *This would actually strengthen the ties between communities of big regions (such as the US, for example), by allowing people to participate in an event close to home at least once every other year. *This would allow people in countries in another hemisphere to hold meetings when it is most suitable for them (Summer holidays are not the same for everyone, for example) *Having a continent picked _ in advance_ for the big international Wikimania would foster good competition, as the chances of a wikimania happening in a given place is higher than when cities scattered across the world are competing *Preparing for a Wikimania is a huge thing (or at least, has become one). The bids we've had in the past few years have shown extreme cooperation with host cities, locations, local partners etc. These are things that are better achieved if you know that your chances of actually winning the bid is higher. *It would give a team two _whole_ years to prepare the international event, and more potential for finding sponsors, partners, etc. *It is easier, on a personal level, to plan to go to the international Wikimania every two years (you know, families and stuff, they might not like it that every year, half of your personal holidays are spent at the other side of the world in some wiki freak show ;)). It also gives a fair shot at remote(r) locations, such as Australia, because people have time to save the money to get there for an international event. *It would allow people with little time to at least attend a international (a region here is an international thing, if smaller than the world) events closer to home every other year. etc. My 0.2 € Delphine -- @notafish NB. This gmail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails will get lost. Intercultural musings: Ceci n'est pas une endive - http://blog.notanendive.org Photos with simple eyes: notaphoto - http://photo.notafish.org ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 1:37 PM, theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: I agree to some extent, a biannual event is an eventuality we have to consider. But would making it biannual have any effect on the quality of the bids, the benefit of having such a diverse community implies that the two teams hosting consecutive events might not be affected by each other at all. The bids might not improve even if the event became biannual. The bidding process lasts for months, the planning stage probably even longer, awarding more time to a bidding team might not improve the quality of the bids. The biggest benefit I would assume, would be providing a team that has already won the bid, more time to prepare for the event. Not if you make it so that there is explicit room and support for regional events in the meantime, allowing teams to gather experience for a bigger, more international event. Delphine -- @notafish NB. This gmail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails will get lost. Intercultural musings: Ceci n'est pas une endive - http://blog.notanendive.org Photos with simple eyes: notaphoto - http://photo.notafish.org ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
There is merit in everything that has been said. However, there are some assumptions I disagree with: 1) Every Wikimania has to be more professional than the one before - I think it is perfectly fine to have a wikimania that is less professional, as long as we're honest about it in advance. So there are no worse bids, there are only overrated bids. 2) There have to be all kinds of conferences and events attached to it - like with 1), this is a nice-to-have, but maybe we should lower the bar here too. I am totally fine with a Wikimania with no planned chapter meeting or scientific conference. Some people do prefer that, others dont - we cant suit everybody. 3) Longer preperation makes better preperation - We have seen in the past that great conferences can be pulled off in short time, and sometimes basically the whole planning takes place in two months even though they had over a year. Giving people two years to prepare wont be much better than giving them a year imho. Also, I think that there is a big advantage to having it every year - you dont have to wait for it so long! I would like new people to pour into our community, and be able to attend wikimania if they want, not to have them wait long. If people can't allow themselves to attend every year, that is just how life works - we should not want to have *everybody* attend every single version of Wikimania. Every year there will be a sub group of the community attending. You do not need not having wikimania as an excuse to spend time with your family! Rotation is of course a Good Thing, but I am not sure if we should fixate it like that. It also excludes a lot of people. Do we really need that much competition that we want to sacrifice our flexibility for it? All we need, imho, in the end is a very capable city to organize it. It doesnt have to be the very best we can squeeze out, but it has to have enough volunteers, a good organization, location and accommodation (and airport...). Having three or four candidates should be more than sufficient to find such a city. I also totally agree with Finne on the importance of being Wikimania. Especially the every year returning characteristic is what makes Wikimania special. I believe that by making it biannual or making it just local every other year would reduce the value of the brand and decrease the enthusiasm that people feel when visiting. I do think by the way we should have more international continental events, but I would even like to /increase/ the number of events (ie, besides the wikimania, I would like to see continental events if Wikimania is elsewhere) because I see that as serving our mission by doing outreach and involving the audience. best, Lodewijk 2011/1/19 theo10011 de10...@gmail.com I agree to some extent, a biannual event is an eventuality we have to consider. But would making it biannual have any effect on the quality of the bids, the benefit of having such a diverse community implies that the two teams hosting consecutive events might not be affected by each other at all. The bids might not improve even if the event became biannual. The bidding process lasts for months, the planning stage probably even longer, awarding more time to a bidding team might not improve the quality of the bids. The biggest benefit I would assume, would be providing a team that has already won the bid, more time to prepare for the event. Again, I would take this opportunity to bring up an earlier suggestion of a Wikimania committee, an oversight committee or an advisory group could improve the bidding process and transfer some of the burden of planning to a specialized body. The experience gained from every year could be retained within the committee, this I believe might have the largest impact on the quality and the frequency of the bids. This might standardized the process and offload a lot of burden from the host team. Regards Theo On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 5:43 PM, Finne Boonen hen...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 12:44, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org wrote: To me, the lack of strong bids is an indicator that holding a big, expensive and complex international conference in a changing location year after year is not very realistic in the long term - and Wikimania is just becoming ever more big, expensive and complex (for example, WM2011 will see at least three side events preceding/co-locating with it). Maybe the problem is that every conference tries to do better/bigger then the previous ones? Which can quickly lead to 'too big/complicated' Few international organizations do that. In fact, many international conferences such as the International Congress of Mathematicians are held every 4 years! I don't think it will be a bad sign for the Wikimedia movement / foundation to decide to hold Wikimania every two years, just a realistic understanding on its part that the tradition of annual Wikimanias However, most other
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
Thanks, Lodewijk. Still waiting to hear from more people, of course. I would just like to correct myself and all those people who I misled into using the word biannual. Thanks to Asaf Bartov to pointing out to me that the correct form is biennial. According to most dictionaries, biannual does exist but means semi-annual (occurring twice a year). I don't think anyone out there thinks we need *biannual* Wikimanias then, just maybe biennial :) Harel On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.orgwrote: There is merit in everything that has been said. However, there are some assumptions I disagree with: 1) Every Wikimania has to be more professional than the one before - I think it is perfectly fine to have a wikimania that is less professional, as long as we're honest about it in advance. So there are no worse bids, there are only overrated bids. 2) There have to be all kinds of conferences and events attached to it - like with 1), this is a nice-to-have, but maybe we should lower the bar here too. I am totally fine with a Wikimania with no planned chapter meeting or scientific conference. Some people do prefer that, others dont - we cant suit everybody. 3) Longer preperation makes better preperation - We have seen in the past that great conferences can be pulled off in short time, and sometimes basically the whole planning takes place in two months even though they had over a year. Giving people two years to prepare wont be much better than giving them a year imho. Also, I think that there is a big advantage to having it every year - you dont have to wait for it so long! I would like new people to pour into our community, and be able to attend wikimania if they want, not to have them wait long. If people can't allow themselves to attend every year, that is just how life works - we should not want to have *everybody* attend every single version of Wikimania. Every year there will be a sub group of the community attending. You do not need not having wikimania as an excuse to spend time with your family! Rotation is of course a Good Thing, but I am not sure if we should fixate it like that. It also excludes a lot of people. Do we really need that much competition that we want to sacrifice our flexibility for it? All we need, imho, in the end is a very capable city to organize it. It doesnt have to be the very best we can squeeze out, but it has to have enough volunteers, a good organization, location and accommodation (and airport...). Having three or four candidates should be more than sufficient to find such a city. I also totally agree with Finne on the importance of being Wikimania. Especially the every year returning characteristic is what makes Wikimania special. I believe that by making it biannual or making it just local every other year would reduce the value of the brand and decrease the enthusiasm that people feel when visiting. I do think by the way we should have more international continental events, but I would even like to /increase/ the number of events (ie, besides the wikimania, I would like to see continental events if Wikimania is elsewhere) because I see that as serving our mission by doing outreach and involving the audience. best, Lodewijk 2011/1/19 theo10011 de10...@gmail.com I agree to some extent, a biannual event is an eventuality we have to consider. But would making it biannual have any effect on the quality of the bids, the benefit of having such a diverse community implies that the two teams hosting consecutive events might not be affected by each other at all. The bids might not improve even if the event became biannual. The bidding process lasts for months, the planning stage probably even longer, awarding more time to a bidding team might not improve the quality of the bids. The biggest benefit I would assume, would be providing a team that has already won the bid, more time to prepare for the event. Again, I would take this opportunity to bring up an earlier suggestion of a Wikimania committee, an oversight committee or an advisory group could improve the bidding process and transfer some of the burden of planning to a specialized body. The experience gained from every year could be retained within the committee, this I believe might have the largest impact on the quality and the frequency of the bids. This might standardized the process and offload a lot of burden from the host team. Regards Theo On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 5:43 PM, Finne Boonen hen...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 12:44, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org wrote: To me, the lack of strong bids is an indicator that holding a big, expensive and complex international conference in a changing location year after year is not very realistic in the long term - and Wikimania is just becoming ever more big, expensive and complex (for example, WM2011 will see at least three side events
[Wikimania-l] Fw: [Wikimania-jury] [Wikimania-planning-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
I completely and adamantly disagree with Harel. Although some bbids are better then others, there are good suggestions already on the 2012 bid list (the Istanbul bid for example - considering the early stage) and other groups are considering bidding. I believe that wikimania should remain an annual event, and although it is complicated in time investing it is doable annually. We should consider a mechanism which will provide each winning time with the experience and knowledge of previous years to make things easier and to enable annual improvement, but there are many chapters and groups who want to host wikimania, and I am sure, that as the number of chapters annually increase, and the number of volunteers annually grow – there will be more and more competitors wishing to host wikimania. Deror From: Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org To: Coordination list for Wikimania. wikimania-plannin...@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: Wikimania jury list wikimania-j...@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Wed, January 19, 2011 1:53:37 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimania-jury] [Wikimania-planning-l] What to do about 2012, and the future 2011/1/19 Harel Cain harel.c...@gmail.com Wikimania-l is a public mailing list with hundreds of members whose relation to wikimania organizing and bidding can be quite remote. I don't mind moving it there, but my feeling is that most Wikimania experts and stakeholders are on one of the two lists I wrote to in my first mail. Harel On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org wrote: I think that this is not the right list to bring up this discussion. Perhaps you could re-send your email to wikimania-l ? For now, although I have strong opinions, I will keep them to myself to avoid confusion :) Best, Lodewijk 2011/1/19 Harel Cain harel.c...@gmail.com Hi all, I'm not a member of this list (so include me in your replies, should you reply), and my comments below express my personal opinion only, which is not necessarily representative of the opinion of WM Israel or of the WM Haifa local team. I'm also copying the wikimania-planning-l list in case they're interested. As someone who attended Wikimania 2007, 2010 and is now spending countless hours together with other team members on preparing WM 2011, I wanted to raise a somewhat controversial idea, namely that in future years, Wikimania will be held once every two years (biannually) and not annually. The reason I'm saying this is not only the huge effort that has to be invested by the local team year after year, but what is potentially a lack of strong bids to host Wikimania 2012, as witnessed by this year's jury. Even if strong bids emerge for 2012 eventually, I'm sure that in years to come the problem will repeat and again we might face a situation where there are no strong bids at all. To me, the lack of strong bids is an indicator that holding a big, expensive and complex international conference in a changing location year after year is not very realistic in the long term - and Wikimania is just becoming ever more big, expensive and complex (for example, WM2011 will see at least three side events preceding/co-locating with it). Few international organizations do that. In fact, many international conferences such as the International Congress of Mathematicians are held every 4 years! I don't think it will be a bad sign for the Wikimedia movement / foundation to decide to hold Wikimania every two years, just a realistic understanding on its part that the tradition of annual Wikimanias is not very practical. I hope that eventually, someone will have the decision power and the courage to take this decision - if not for 2012 (I'm not advocating to skip WM2012 specifically, that's not my agenda), then in the future. Your thoughts? Yours, Harel Cain Wikimania 2011 local team (but speaking personally) ___ Wikimania-planning-l mailing list wikimania-plannin...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-planning-l ___ Wikimania-planning-l mailing list wikimania-plannin...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-planning-l -- Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur. ___ Wikimania-planning-l mailing list wikimania-plannin...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-planning-l Yes, that is all very true. But whether or not we should have a Wikimania every year, is something that has impact on all those visitors, so they should have at least a say in that :) Also, they are your potential bidders for the future years, and all the experts are there /too/. You have the best of both worlds there imho. Lodewijk ___ Wikimania-l mailing
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
2011/1/19 Delphine Ménard notafi...@gmail.com: On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Finne Boonen hen...@gmail.com wrote: However, most other fields have several conferences a year where people meet each other. I'm not sure we have enough events that allow real international 'mingling' to take place. In my experience most conferences we have are very local events, and there is real benefit from interacting in person with a wider community then the local one. I am a bit with Harel on this one. However, I agree with you Finne. To me, the solution would be to have a rotating (yes, the big R word) international event every other year (ie. it would be decided _in advance_ which continent wikimania is happening on) and allow/foster more regional international meetings the year in between. This would allow for the following: snip *This would actually strengthen the ties between communities of big regions (such as the US, for example), by allowing people to participate in an event close to home at least once every other year. I'm still not totally sold on biennial idea, but this is the one compelling reason for me. With two weeks of vacation per year, most Americans have to carefully decide how to use it. Do I attend Wikimania? Wiki-Conference NYC? And forget about me attending any non-Wiki conferences, if I do that. (Thankfully, the socialist country in which I now live (;)) guarantees me a lot more free time, but I still appreciate the issue.) Austin ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Harel Cain harel.c...@gmail.com wrote: I would just like to correct myself and all those people who I misled into using the word biannual. Thanks to Asaf Bartov to pointing out to me that the correct form is biennial. According to most dictionaries, biannual does exist but means semi-annual (occurring twice a year). I don't think anyone out there thinks we need *biannual* Wikimanias then, just maybe biennial :) Yes, those two are incredibly confusing, and even I sometimes have to stop and remember which one's which. In common speech I usually take care to clarify up front, even if I use the term later. Austin ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] Fw: [Wikimania-jury] [Wikimania-planning-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
I agree with lodewijk's assumptions to a certain extent. But we shouldn't keep expectations low by design, there should be no bar set to judge the event, whatever happens, happens, but we should always strive to make it as professional as we can. There are many organizations who hold annual international events, who don't have nearly the same resources and reach as we do. As for what Delphine suggested, about having more local and regional events, its an great idea but the sad reality is most chapters can't organize regular meetups, let alone a national conference every year. A lot of the chapters aren't organized to pull even a national event of every year, plus the preparations and the planning would be very similar to the Wikimania in its current incarnation. So it probably might make more sense to just go through a large event once rather than multiple events every year. I have a feeling that most chapters would not be supportive of more events instead of the one large event where we all get together. Regards Theo On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 6:42 PM, Deror Avi deror_...@yahoo.com wrote: I completely and adamantly disagree with Harel. Although some bbids are better then others, there are good suggestions already on the 2012 bid list (the Istanbul bid for example - considering the early stage) and other groups are considering bidding. I believe that wikimania should remain an annual event, and although it is complicated in time investing it is doable annually. We should consider a mechanism which will provide each winning time with the experience and knowledge of previous years to make things easier and to enable annual improvement, but there are many chapters and groups who want to host wikimania, and I am sure, that as the number of chapters annually increase, and the number of volunteers annually grow – there will be more and more competitors wishing to host wikimania. Deror -- *From:* Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org *To:* Coordination list for Wikimania. wikimania-plannin...@lists.wikimedia.org *Cc:* Wikimania jury list wikimania-j...@lists.wikimedia.org *Sent:* Wed, January 19, 2011 1:53:37 PM *Subject:* Re: [Wikimania-jury] [Wikimania-planning-l] What to do about 2012, and the future Yes, that is all very true. But whether or not we should have a Wikimania every year, is something that has impact on all those visitors, so they should have at least a say in that :) Also, they are your potential bidders for the future years, and all the experts are there /too/. You have the best of both worlds there imho. Lodewijk 2011/1/19 Harel Cain harel.c...@gmail.com Wikimania-l is a public mailing list with hundreds of members whose relation to wikimania organizing and bidding can be quite remote. I don't mind moving it there, but my feeling is that most Wikimania experts and stakeholders are on one of the two lists I wrote to in my first mail. Harel On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.orgwrote: I think that this is not the right list to bring up this discussion. Perhaps you could re-send your email to wikimania-l ? For now, although I have strong opinions, I will keep them to myself to avoid confusion :) Best, Lodewijk 2011/1/19 Harel Cain harel.c...@gmail.com Hi all, I'm not a member of this list (so include me in your replies, should you reply), and my comments below express my personal opinion only, which is not necessarily representative of the opinion of WM Israel or of the WM Haifa local team. I'm also copying the wikimania-planning-l list in case they're interested. As someone who attended Wikimania 2007, 2010 and is now spending countless hours together with other team members on preparing WM 2011, I wanted to raise a somewhat controversial idea, namely that in future years, Wikimania will be held once every two years (biannually) and not annually. The reason I'm saying this is not only the huge effort that has to be invested by the local team year after year, but what is potentially a lack of strong bids to host Wikimania 2012, as witnessed by this year's jury. Even if strong bids emerge for 2012 eventually, I'm sure that in years to come the problem will repeat and again we might face a situation where there are no strong bids at all. To me, the lack of strong bids is an indicator that holding a big, expensive and complex international conference in a changing location year after year is not very realistic in the long term - and Wikimania is just becoming ever more big, expensive and complex (for example, WM2011 will see at least three side events preceding/co-locating with it). Few international organizations do that. In fact, many international conferences such as the International Congress of Mathematicians are held every 4 years! I don't think it will be a bad sign for the Wikimedia movement / foundation to decide to hold Wikimania
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
I agree that this is an issue we need to deal with, and I'm glad this discussion is happening. I'm not sure switching to a biennial conference is the right solution, though. The usual rule-of-thumb is that people participate in online communities for about 18 months (I'm not sure how accurate that actually is, but it seems plausible to me). Having Wikimania only every two years would mean a lot of people never get a chance to attend one. Having a mathematics conference only every 4 years is fine because the typical working life of a professional mathematician is about 35-40 years, far great than the typical working life of a Wikipedian. One alternative solution might be to make more use of chapters. We have a lot of chapters that are rapidly growing and professionalising. Give it a couple of years and we'll have a significant number of chapters that could organise a half-decent Wikimania without much difficulty at all (organising a fully decent one would take a bit of effort, but you could get away with a Wikimania that was no bigger than the national events that chapters hold on a regular basis anyway, you just have to add on the complication that comes from it being an international event). Wikimedia UK, for instance, is planning to hire an event manager in the near future to organise our national events. Once we've got them, we can just tell them organise a Wikimania and a large amount of the more routine work would just get done. The volunteer team could then concentrate on the interesting stuff. We may want to consider a rule that only chapters can organise Wikimanias (I'm only proposing we consider it at this point, I'm not sure I'm in favour of it). It would increase the liklihood of good quality Wikimanias. The biggest downside is that organising a Wikimania can be a good kickstart towards founding a chapter (I think there are some precedents for that, although I can't remember which chapters they are) and we would lose that. I don't think the limited number of venues would be an issue, since chapters are being formed at a pretty impressive rate and there are plenty of existing chapters in countries that have never hosted Wikimania. ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
Exactly, the majority of the successful chapters don't hold regular national events or maybe limit themselves to a single International event. if we go by the rule of established chapters, then the onus lies on the most successful chapters in Europe first before any other. A large majority of the chapters are still not well organized, having a full time staff member to deal with event planning might not be a smart decision for everyone. Also, about what Dalton said above, about hiring a single event planner/manager in the chapter, I think it's still far from being able to manage a Wikimania style event professionally. Unless they are experienced with International event planning, its still going to be a very large task for any single chapter. A suggestion that I heard a while ago, was bringing in outside event Managers for Wikimania, while the chapter provides oversight. I think that might also be a viable solution to consider. Theo On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Asaf Bartov asaf.bar...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote: effort, but you could get away with a Wikimania that was no bigger than the national events that chapters hold on a regular basis anyway, Actually, it seems to me that less than a third of the established chapters do, in fact, hold national events [...] on a regular basis. I'm point this out to remind everyone that it is far from easy to assert that all (or even most) chapters can pull of a Wikimania. Asaf -- Asaf Bartov asaf.bar...@gmail.com ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 9:48 AM, theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: Also, about what Dalton said above, about hiring a single event planner/manager in the chapter, I think it's still far from being able to manage a Wikimania style event professionally. Unless they are experienced with International event planning, its still going to be a very large task for any single chapter. It's a large task for a single chapter to plan Wikimania with the help of a paid event professional? Our Wikimanias have been planned by a lot less -- usually just a group of hard-working Wikimedians, some with the help of a chapter, some not. :-) -- Casey Brown Cbrown1023 ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Casey Brown li...@caseybrown.org wrote: On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 9:48 AM, theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: Also, about what Dalton said above, about hiring a single event planner/manager in the chapter, I think it's still far from being able to manage a Wikimania style event professionally. Unless they are experienced with International event planning, its still going to be a very large task for any single chapter. It's a large task for a single chapter to plan Wikimania with the help of a paid event professional? Our Wikimanias have been planned by a lot less -- usually just a group of hard-working Wikimedians, some with the help of a chapter, some not. :-) Allow me to reiterate, I meant its a demanding task for any group, let alone an individual planner. :-) Our Wikimanias have also been getting larger and more complicated, I think thats one of the central issues. I only suggested, maybe its time to consider outside/professional help? Theo ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
Just throwing my two cents in as someone relatively new to Wikimania but not unexperienced in conferences, I would make three points. Forgive me if someone said these before in a better way. 1. Wikimania isn't actually that big. I agree with Harel when he points out that the level of overhead involved in organizing is a barrier to strong bids, but still, my understanding is that Wikimania tends to draw less than a thousand people. That's about the size of a municipal or regional technical conference in my experience. 2. Even if Wikimania is not relatively big when it comes to technology conferences, the problem is growing a strong local team of volunteers in a new place every year. That's very, very hard. We're not unique in having that difficulty as a movement, but I don't think it means we should abandon volunteer-based organization for the event. 3. Making Wikimania biannual will only serve to create more pressure on a new local team to create a huge, unique event, not lessen it. If we think Wikimania is too much to have as a rotating single yearly conference, I would suggest (and this isn't a new idea or mine alone) that we pick one or two semi-permanent locations on different continents and hold them regularly in those places. Say, one in Bangalore, one in Berlin, one in San Francisco, as examples, and hold them on a rotating basis. However you do it, a greater number of smaller, distributed events is the solution for easing the pressure of a single monolithic conference. On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 7:02 AM, theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Casey Brown li...@caseybrown.org wrote: On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 9:48 AM, theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: Also, about what Dalton said above, about hiring a single event planner/manager in the chapter, I think it's still far from being able to manage a Wikimania style event professionally. Unless they are experienced with International event planning, its still going to be a very large task for any single chapter. It's a large task for a single chapter to plan Wikimania with the help of a paid event professional? Our Wikimanias have been planned by a lot less -- usually just a group of hard-working Wikimedians, some with the help of a chapter, some not. :-) Allow me to reiterate, I meant its a demanding task for any group, let alone an individual planner. :-) Our Wikimanias have also been getting larger and more complicated, I think thats one of the central issues. I only suggested, maybe its time to consider outside/professional help? Theo ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
2011/1/19 Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com 2. Even if Wikimania is not relatively big when it comes to technology conferences, the problem is growing a strong local team of volunteers in a new place every year. That's very, very hard. We're not unique in having that difficulty as a movement, but I don't think it means we should abandon volunteer-based organization for the event. This is an important point. It's hard to grow such a team in a new place every year, but if you do, then after X years you will have grown X strong local team of volunteers, ready to take on new challenges and to teach their experience to other teams. This may be a worthy goal. It would be interesting to check previous Wikimanias and to see whether the team that organized them went on as a team. ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
I am not sure about the program committee. I served last year on the Program Committee, and as far as I know none of the three members who did the bulk of the work (Jacek, Danica and myself) had any experience of being previously on the Wikimania Program Committee, and I have not heard from other members that they had such experience. I have also not been contacted by 2011 team to serve on their Program Committee, so that I assume they probably formed the Committee themselves already. Cheers Yaroslav Agree that these are important things to deal with. We already have the scholarship committee, which tends to have some folks do it year after year. Same with the program committee. So maybe it would be good to have another committee to help visa issues (together with local team)? or have someone at WMF who has some experience with that? ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
On Jan 19, 2011, at 9:16 AM, Amir E. Aharoni wrote: 2011/1/19 Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com 2. Even if Wikimania is not relatively big when it comes to technology conferences, the problem is growing a strong local team of volunteers in a new place every year. That's very, very hard. We're not unique in having that difficulty as a movement, but I don't think it means we should abandon volunteer-based organization for the event. This is an important point. It's hard to grow such a team in a new place every year, but if you do, then after X years you will have grown X strong local team of volunteers, ready to take on new challenges and to teach their experience to other teams. This may be a worthy goal. It would be interesting to check previous Wikimanias and to see whether the team that organized them went on as a team. I believe that hosting and organizing a Wikimania should be a stepping stone toward professionalization and development for a chapter or group of emerging volunteers. One would hope that hosting Wikimania in your region would allow a chapter or group to pull from outside the editing community and to engage local individuals to volunteer who may not wish to edit wikipedia but might wish to advocate for our projects and organize events. Both skills sets are vital, and different types of people require different types of work to keep their interest in the movement. For example I have often said, if I had come to Wikipedia to edit I do not think I would be a strong volunteer or a volunteer at all, but if i came to wikipedia to organize conferences, and to advocate for our projects to local schools and universities that is a way my skills could be utilized as a volunteer and I would feel richly engaged with the Wikimedia projects. This being said, I do not know if we have been very good at outreaching and obtaining some of the vital skills to help grow our community and to fill some of the gaps which our core contributors might not be interested. This could be a reason why bids are not strong, the type of individual who is interested to organize and run a conference is not always the type of individual who is interested in editing an encyclopedia. As a movement we need to start to welcome the skills of individuals who might not meet our standard type of volunteer and engage them, give them projects let them feel valued. This all being said I will get back to my point. My point is that I believe Wikimania should be an opportunity for a chapter or group of volunteers to grow, however because we do not always engage with the type of volunteer who likes to organize and develop conferences we find Wikimania becomes a huge energy drain on a local community. Most locations which have hosted Wikimania (Boston, Gdansk, Alexandria, Taipei) all from my understanding had a group which was emerging maybe thinking of creating a chapter, they won a Wikimania bid and worked for a year to organize a conference, and after the conference the work stopped. The volunteers did not organize more events, they did not engage with local schools or create chapters, the energy fizzled. I know this is a generalization and I know Boston and Alexandria might be special cases. It might be useful to know from Argentina how they felt after hosting the conference, did they see a decline in volunteers, did the volunteers who were not editors before continue to volunteer? So I agree with Amir, did former years teams continue their work after obtaining these new skills, or did the community members leave and the skills and lessons learned were lost. For me I hope Wikimania is not a chapter killer but a chapter creator, however the jury is still out. But if wikimania is a chapter killer then what can we do to change that, and how can we create incentives for chapters and groups to want to host. Again this is all my thought and opinions and I am just throwing this out as the conversation is rich and thoughtful today. James James Owen Executive Assistant Board Liaison Wikimedia Foundation Office +1.415.839.6885 x 6604 Mobile +1.415.509.5444 Fax +1.415.882.0495 Email- jo...@wikimedia.org Website- www.wikimediafoundation.org ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
James, even if Wikimania is a chapter builder (or improves and grows existing chapters), I think those who have been on the ground planning and doing (just to set up the registration site is a lot of work, and that's one of a few dozen tasks to accomplish) almost inevitably get into a lot of infighting and quarreling, volunteers want their opinion heard as that's the only reward they get from their participation. Running such a team of opinionated volunteers is super hard, and the smallest issue can cause someone to leave or lose his motivation. In a sense, it's like throwing together the volunteers into some pressure pot and letting them cook there for a year - they might get to know each other really well, but at the same time they might also be at each other's throats when the conference is done and never want to talk to each other ever again. Add to that the anti-climax effect which I'm sure local teams experience when Wikimania is over. Having delivered such a huge achievement, maybe such prosaic tasks as lecturing at schools and meeting with libraries doesn't seem as exciting anymore. Teams are bound to ask themselves Well, now what?. Harel On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 8:05 PM, James Owen jo...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Jan 19, 2011, at 9:16 AM, Amir E. Aharoni wrote: 2011/1/19 Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com 2. Even if Wikimania is not relatively big when it comes to technology conferences, the problem is growing a strong local team of volunteers in a new place every year. That's very, very hard. We're not unique in having that difficulty as a movement, but I don't think it means we should abandon volunteer-based organization for the event. This is an important point. It's hard to grow such a team in a new place every year, but if you do, then after X years you will have grown X strong local team of volunteers, ready to take on new challenges and to teach their experience to other teams. This may be a worthy goal. It would be interesting to check previous Wikimanias and to see whether the team that organized them went on as a team. I believe that hosting and organizing a Wikimania should be a stepping stone toward professionalization and development for a chapter or group of emerging volunteers. One would hope that hosting Wikimania in your region would allow a chapter or group to pull from outside the editing community and to engage local individuals to volunteer who may not wish to edit wikipedia but might wish to advocate for our projects and organize events. Both skills sets are vital, and different types of people require different types of work to keep their interest in the movement. For example I have often said, if I had come to Wikipedia to edit I do not think I would be a strong volunteer or a volunteer at all, but if i came to wikipedia to organize conferences, and to advocate for our projects to local schools and universities that is a way my skills could be utilized as a volunteer and I would feel richly engaged with the Wikimedia projects. This being said, I do not know if we have been very good at outreaching and obtaining some of the vital skills to help grow our community and to fill some of the gaps which our core contributors might not be interested. This could be a reason why bids are not strong, the type of individual who is interested to organize and run a conference is not always the type of individual who is interested in editing an encyclopedia. As a movement we need to start to welcome the skills of individuals who might not meet our standard type of volunteer and engage them, give them projects let them feel valued. This all being said I will get back to my point. My point is that I believe Wikimania should be an opportunity for a chapter or group of volunteers to grow, however because we do not always engage with the type of volunteer who likes to organize and develop conferences we find Wikimania becomes a huge energy drain on a local community. Most locations which have hosted Wikimania (Boston, Gdansk, Alexandria, Taipei) all from my understanding had a group which was emerging maybe thinking of creating a chapter, they won a Wikimania bid and worked for a year to organize a conference, and after the conference the work stopped. The volunteers did not organize more events, they did not engage with local schools or create chapters, the energy fizzled. I know this is a generalization and I know Boston and Alexandria might be special cases. It might be useful to know from Argentina how they felt after hosting the conference, did they see a decline in volunteers, did the volunteers who were not editors before continue to volunteer? So I agree with Amir, did former years teams continue their work after obtaining these new skills, or did the community members leave and the skills and lessons learned were lost. For me I hope Wikimania is not a chapter killer but a chapter creator, however the jury is
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
Excellent point James. I agree with Harel about possible reason the enthusiasm fizzles away. Its a very common thing usually witnessed in stressful fields, the organizers tend to have a high burnout rate. So the next logical question becomes How do we attract and retain that kind of talent? Joseph seddon made efforts last year to get a Wikimania committee off the ground but the effort didn't go anywhere, maybe we should reconsider it again. Also, one thing I wondered about, how about a designated staff personnel to handle Wikimania bidding and event planning, its the biggest thing we have in the entire year, it would make sense if there was a dedicated personnel who could help the hosts through the bidding process and then support the event with the team and the committee. Theo Salmaan Haroon On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 11:47 PM, Harel Cain harel.c...@gmail.com wrote: James, even if Wikimania is a chapter builder (or improves and grows existing chapters), I think those who have been on the ground planning and doing (just to set up the registration site is a lot of work, and that's one of a few dozen tasks to accomplish) almost inevitably get into a lot of infighting and quarreling, volunteers want their opinion heard as that's the only reward they get from their participation. Running such a team of opinionated volunteers is super hard, and the smallest issue can cause someone to leave or lose his motivation. In a sense, it's like throwing together the volunteers into some pressure pot and letting them cook there for a year - they might get to know each other really well, but at the same time they might also be at each other's throats when the conference is done and never want to talk to each other ever again. Add to that the anti-climax effect which I'm sure local teams experience when Wikimania is over. Having delivered such a huge achievement, maybe such prosaic tasks as lecturing at schools and meeting with libraries doesn't seem as exciting anymore. Teams are bound to ask themselves Well, now what?. Harel On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 8:05 PM, James Owen jo...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Jan 19, 2011, at 9:16 AM, Amir E. Aharoni wrote: 2011/1/19 Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com 2. Even if Wikimania is not relatively big when it comes to technology conferences, the problem is growing a strong local team of volunteers in a new place every year. That's very, very hard. We're not unique in having that difficulty as a movement, but I don't think it means we should abandon volunteer-based organization for the event. This is an important point. It's hard to grow such a team in a new place every year, but if you do, then after X years you will have grown X strong local team of volunteers, ready to take on new challenges and to teach their experience to other teams. This may be a worthy goal. It would be interesting to check previous Wikimanias and to see whether the team that organized them went on as a team. I believe that hosting and organizing a Wikimania should be a stepping stone toward professionalization and development for a chapter or group of emerging volunteers. One would hope that hosting Wikimania in your region would allow a chapter or group to pull from outside the editing community and to engage local individuals to volunteer who may not wish to edit wikipedia but might wish to advocate for our projects and organize events. Both skills sets are vital, and different types of people require different types of work to keep their interest in the movement. For example I have often said, if I had come to Wikipedia to edit I do not think I would be a strong volunteer or a volunteer at all, but if i came to wikipedia to organize conferences, and to advocate for our projects to local schools and universities that is a way my skills could be utilized as a volunteer and I would feel richly engaged with the Wikimedia projects. This being said, I do not know if we have been very good at outreaching and obtaining some of the vital skills to help grow our community and to fill some of the gaps which our core contributors might not be interested. This could be a reason why bids are not strong, the type of individual who is interested to organize and run a conference is not always the type of individual who is interested in editing an encyclopedia. As a movement we need to start to welcome the skills of individuals who might not meet our standard type of volunteer and engage them, give them projects let them feel valued. This all being said I will get back to my point. My point is that I believe Wikimania should be an opportunity for a chapter or group of volunteers to grow, however because we do not always engage with the type of volunteer who likes to organize and develop conferences we find Wikimania becomes a huge energy drain on a local community. Most locations which have hosted Wikimania (Boston, Gdansk, Alexandria,
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 1:23 PM, theo10011 de10...@gmail.com wrote: Excellent point James. I agree with Harel about possible reason the enthusiasm fizzles away. Its a very common thing usually witnessed in stressful fields, the organizers tend to have a high burnout rate. That's why the caution from our group in DC (and NYC). We want to build our capacity as a group and working together on smaller projects. (e.g. GLAM-Wiki US / DC and our various outreach projects) We also want to form a chapter here. If we successfully do both, then I think we would be ready to organize Wikimania. At the same time, such efforts would help build our ties with other local groups and folks. I'm concerned that Wikimania organizing (if done in the shorter term here) will take energy away from our GLAM outreach efforts and that's not desirable. So the next logical question becomes How do we attract and retain that kind of talent? I think teaming up with other like-minded groups that have organized events would be helpful. There are a ton of free culture / tech events held all over the place. Student groups are also good allies, as they have people to help and ability to work with venues. (e.g. universities) Joseph seddon made efforts last year to get a Wikimania committee off the ground but the effort didn't go anywhere, maybe we should reconsider it again. Also, one thing I wondered about, how about a designated staff personnel to handle Wikimania bidding and event planning, its the biggest thing we have in the entire year, it would make sense if there was a dedicated personnel who could help the hosts through the bidding process and then support the event with the team and the committee. A designated person to help would be good. Someone to help with travel and visa issues, especially. -Katie (@aude) Theo Salmaan Haroon ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
A designated person to help would be good. Someone to help with travel and visa issues, especially. As I wrote in other places before, based on the Haifa team's experience - there has to be some one-stop-shop person (on WMF staff or not, but committed to this task) who could answer all questions the winning team will have (and it will!) or point to those who could answer them. There will always be a strong local aspect to many difficult issues (such as visas, catering, local government relations), but there are things like how to get the new wiki to be formed, what mailing lists to start subscribing to, how to operate the OTRS queues, who to ask for help with registration site and scholarship application/review site and how to set them up -- all of these are things that currently the teams just have to try to learn/guess from scratch. At least we did. And that's quite silly. Harel ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
I've been to the last two wikimanias, plus GLAM wiki here in London and several conferences in my real life. I absolutely agree with the argument that the lifecycle of a volunteer is too short to have 24 month gaps between wikimanias. But there are sensible things that could be done to simplify the process. 1 Don't reinvent all the wheels. The local team has to find venues and accommodation, but do they really need to create their own booking system from scratch (I think this is one area where Poland came unstuck). 2 Recruit freely. Once you know who has the bid then a call for volunteers can't hurt and can be last minute. Yes it is nice to involve the local chapter, but if the local chapter is short of people to do particular things then why not ask for a few regulars to urn up a few days early or late and do the tasks you haven't otherwise managed. 3 Use a resort town that is used to hosting conferences - ideally one that will supply some of the logistical support. (in the UK out of season resorts can be quite cooperative). WereSpielChequers ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 1:27 PM, James Owen jo...@wikimedia.org wrote: Harel, We as a community and the people on this list who care about Wikimania need to do our part, to put in some work and actual hours, maybe have some face to face meetings... and find way to elevate some of the pressure for the local teams, and to help them realize what to do with their new found energy once the conference is completed. Maybe we discover the best way is to hire outside organizers who are managed and supported by a local team, maybe we create a system where Wikimania bidding teams get a grant to hire a staff person for a year to help with organizing, there are many options we could explore. I would be very open to having help with some of the event planning. Speaking from experience organizing conferences for the government, we did have an event planner working with us to help negotiate with the venue, the caterer, etc., to scope out the venue and handled logistics for travel / scholarships. The help with negotiating costs helps offset the cost of hiring the person. My role for myself and my colleague were to organize the program (where knowing about the subject matter was important) and we had ultimate authority to make decisions. If we could hire her (or someone) to help our local team in DC, then I would be much more comfortable with going forward with a bid for Wikimania. Though, having such help doesn't alleviate the need for a strong local team of volunteers to handle key aspects of organizing. Cheers, Katie (@aude) But in general we need a group of 5-10 individuals to really do some work and think of this strategically, a Wikmania committee not to manage the bids, or organize wikimania but to be responsible for the future of the conference. * James Owen Executive Assistant Board Liaison Wikimedia Foundation Office +1.415.839.6885 x 6604 Mobile +1.415.509.5444 Fax +1.415.882.0495 Email- jo...@wikimedia.org Website- www.wikimediafoundation.org * ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
I think this has been a very productive discussion so far. In summary some points from the discussion- 1. Having a dedicated staff member at the foundation to co-ordinate and help with Wikimania bidding and planning is something we should consider. Its the biggest event we have every year, having some one familiar with the community and the requirements for Wikimania is probably a good idea, just a single point of contact (one-stop-shop person as Harel put it) would be helpful for the hosts. 2. We definitely need a committee to oversee wikimania planning, and take over the entire process from planning to execution. The jury is not that connected to the entire process, a committee can provide a lot of support. Considering all the committees we have or have had, this one seems like a no-brainer. 3. Hiring outside staff or a manager for the event is also an option. 4. We don't want to burn-out the organizers, so getting them as much help as possible should be our priority. it would be advisable to avoid new or forming chapters and focus in on areas which holds conferences regularly. I believe Harel and Avi can provide us a lot of feedback about what they need from the community and the foundation as they go through their planning, I assume we can count on your support James for a Wikimania Committee or maybe even a designated staff personnel in future? Theo Salmaan Haroon On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 12:14 AM, aude aude.w...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 1:27 PM, James Owen jo...@wikimedia.org wrote: Harel, We as a community and the people on this list who care about Wikimania need to do our part, to put in some work and actual hours, maybe have some face to face meetings... and find way to elevate some of the pressure for the local teams, and to help them realize what to do with their new found energy once the conference is completed. Maybe we discover the best way is to hire outside organizers who are managed and supported by a local team, maybe we create a system where Wikimania bidding teams get a grant to hire a staff person for a year to help with organizing, there are many options we could explore. I would be very open to having help with some of the event planning. Speaking from experience organizing conferences for the government, we did have an event planner working with us to help negotiate with the venue, the caterer, etc., to scope out the venue and handled logistics for travel / scholarships. The help with negotiating costs helps offset the cost of hiring the person. My role for myself and my colleague were to organize the program (where knowing about the subject matter was important) and we had ultimate authority to make decisions. If we could hire her (or someone) to help our local team in DC, then I would be much more comfortable with going forward with a bid for Wikimania. Though, having such help doesn't alleviate the need for a strong local team of volunteers to handle key aspects of organizing. Cheers, Katie (@aude) But in general we need a group of 5-10 individuals to really do some work and think of this strategically, a Wikmania committee not to manage the bids, or organize wikimania but to be responsible for the future of the conference. * James Owen Executive Assistant Board Liaison Wikimedia Foundation Office +1.415.839.6885 x 6604 Mobile +1.415.509.5444 Fax +1.415.882.0495 Email- jo...@wikimedia.org Website- www.wikimediafoundation.org * ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
1. Having a dedicated staff member at the foundation to co-ordinate and help with Wikimania bidding and planning is something we should consider. Its the biggest event we have every year, having some one familiar with the community and the requirements for Wikimania is probably a good idea, just a single point of contact (one-stop-shop person as Harel put it) would be helpful for the hosts. Although the Wikimedia Foundation is happy to support and guide (when needed) the wikimania organizing teams I want to call out that Wikimania is a conference created by and for the Wikimedia community and is not a conference of the Wikimedia Foundation. It is my personal belief that the conference is a rich and meaningful experience for the Wikimedia community because it is created by the community for the community. This being said, the individuals who hold the most knowledge of Wikimaina is not the Wikimedia Foundation or its staff, a committee of individuals who have been involved in Wikimania in the pass would be a better point of contact for Wikimania organizing teams. 2. We definitely need a committee to oversee wikimania planning, and take over the entire process from planning to execution. The jury is not that connected to the entire process, a committee can provide a lot of support. Considering all the committees we have or have had, this one seems like a no-brainer. 3. Hiring outside staff or a manager for the event is also an option. 4. We don't want to burn-out the organizers, so getting them as much help as possible should be our priority. it would be advisable to avoid new or forming chapters and focus in on areas which holds conferences regularly. I believe Harel and Avi can provide us a lot of feedback about what they need from the community and the foundation as they go through their planning, I assume we can count on your support James for a Wikimania Committee or maybe even a designated staff personnel in future? I am happy to help as a volunteer and must of my work with the wikimania jury is as a volunteer and not as a paid employee of the Wikimedia Foundation. It is not my position to allocate resource on behalf of the organization so I can not speak to my ability to support a committee as a primary role of my position as a paid staff. Again I think this is best organized by the Wikimedia volunteer community and not as an initiative of the WMF staff. This all being said I am sure any committee that could form would be support in some ways by WMF (for example WMF might support some travel cost for the committee members to hold meetings, or travel to hold a site visit with the local team) but the committee should form as a community initiative not a staff initiative. I should also clarify my earlier statement about a possibility for a grant, this statement again is me as a volunteer not as a paid staff. It is simply an example of how a committee could make a recommendation to the Foundation. The committee would outline and suggest responsibilities and roles for the team, WMF, jury, and community as a whole. In my opinion someone from the community should work toward creating a committee, put out a call for participation and start to hold meetings and create a strong list of recommendations for what will need to happen to improve the future of Wikimania and support bidding and organizing teams. The committee could ask for resources from WMF if they wish to hold a face to face meeting to complete some of this work. It all seems within the scope of how WMF can support the work of the volunteers. Regards, James Theo Salmaan Haroon On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 12:14 AM, aude aude.w...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 1:27 PM, James Owen jo...@wikimedia.org wrote: Harel, We as a community and the people on this list who care about Wikimania need to do our part, to put in some work and actual hours, maybe have some face to face meetings... and find way to elevate some of the pressure for the local teams, and to help them realize what to do with their new found energy once the conference is completed. Maybe we discover the best way is to hire outside organizers who are managed and supported by a local team, maybe we create a system where Wikimania bidding teams get a grant to hire a staff person for a year to help with organizing, there are many options we could explore. I would be very open to having help with some of the event planning. Speaking from experience organizing conferences for the government, we did have an event planner working with us to help negotiate with the venue, the caterer, etc., to scope out the venue and handled logistics for travel / scholarships. The help with negotiating costs helps offset the cost of hiring the person. My role for myself and my colleague were to organize the program (where knowing about the subject matter was
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
On 19 January 2011 19:44, Harel Cain harel.c...@gmail.com wrote: A lot of the back-office operation such as communicating with Foundation, corresponding on the mailing lists, operating the registration system, operating the scholarship review system, clearing PayPal transactions, answering OTRS queries, building the program, inviting keynote speakers, running the conference wiki, Facebook, Twitter and IRC an external employee will never do or be able to do. And that's a fair amount of work on its own. I completely disagree. A lot of those sound like exactly the tasks that could be effectively delegated to an event manager, either internal or external. ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
Thanks James, I apologize for putting you on the spot and for misconstruing your opinion as a volunteer. I understand that the community needs to take up the effort now. So with that in mind, is someone from the list willing to take on the responsibility of forming or discussing a potential for a committee? or should we do an announce on the foundation-l list to see if there are more participants. I can help if needed. Theo On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 1:20 AM, James Owen jo...@wikimedia.org wrote: 1. Having a dedicated staff member at the foundation to co-ordinate and help with Wikimania bidding and planning is something we should consider. Its the biggest event we have every year, having some one familiar with the community and the requirements for Wikimania is probably a good idea, just a single point of contact (one-stop-shop person as Harel put it) would be helpful for the hosts. Although the Wikimedia Foundation is happy to support and guide (when needed) the wikimania organizing teams I want to call out that Wikimania is a conference created by and for the Wikimedia community and is not a conference of the Wikimedia Foundation. It is my personal belief that the conference is a rich and meaningful experience for the Wikimedia community because it is created by the community for the community. This being said, the individuals who hold the most knowledge of Wikimaina is not the Wikimedia Foundation or its staff, a committee of individuals who have been involved in Wikimania in the pass would be a better point of contact for Wikimania organizing teams. 2. We definitely need a committee to oversee wikimania planning, and take over the entire process from planning to execution. The jury is not that connected to the entire process, a committee can provide a lot of support. Considering all the committees we have or have had, this one seems like a no-brainer. 3. Hiring outside staff or a manager for the event is also an option. 4. We don't want to burn-out the organizers, so getting them as much help as possible should be our priority. it would be advisable to avoid new or forming chapters and focus in on areas which holds conferences regularly. I believe Harel and Avi can provide us a lot of feedback about what they need from the community and the foundation as they go through their planning, I assume we can count on your support James for a Wikimania Committee or maybe even a designated staff personnel in future? I am happy to help as a volunteer and must of my work with the wikimania jury is as a volunteer and not as a paid employee of the Wikimedia Foundation. It is not my position to allocate resource on behalf of the organization so I can not speak to my ability to support a committee as a primary role of my position as a paid staff. Again I think this is best organized by the Wikimedia volunteer community and not as an initiative of the WMF staff. This all being said I am sure any committee that could form would be support in some ways by WMF (for example WMF might support some travel cost for the committee members to hold meetings, or travel to hold a site visit with the local team) but the committee should form as a community initiative not a staff initiative. I should also clarify my earlier statement about a possibility for a grant, this statement again is me as a volunteer not as a paid staff. It is simply an example of how a committee could make a recommendation to the Foundation. The committee would outline and suggest responsibilities and roles for the team, WMF, jury, and community as a whole. In my opinion someone from the community should work toward creating a committee, put out a call for participation and start to hold meetings and create a strong list of recommendations for what will need to happen to improve the future of Wikimania and support bidding and organizing teams. The committee could ask for resources from WMF if they wish to hold a face to face meeting to complete some of this work. It all seems within the scope of how WMF can support the work of the volunteers. Regards, James Theo Salmaan Haroon On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 12:14 AM, aude aude.w...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 1:27 PM, James Owen jo...@wikimedia.org wrote: Harel, We as a community and the people on this list who care about Wikimania need to do our part, to put in some work and actual hours, maybe have some face to face meetings... and find way to elevate some of the pressure for the local teams, and to help them realize what to do with their new found energy once the conference is completed. Maybe we discover the best way is to hire outside organizers who are managed and supported by a local team, maybe we create a system where Wikimania bidding teams get a grant to hire a staff person for a year to help with organizing, there are many options we could explore. I would be very open to having help
Re: [Wikimania-l] What to do about 2012, and the future
Hi, On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Harel Cain harel.c...@gmail.com wrote: As someone who attended Wikimania 2007, 2010 and is now spending countless hours together with other team members on preparing WM 2011, I wanted to raise a somewhat controversial idea, namely that in future years, Wikimania will be held once every two years (biannually) and not annually. A lot of interesting things have been said in this thread already, and I'll admit I haven't read all the long responses. I just wanted to express my agreement with the belief that, as the Wikimedia movement grows worldwide, more and more small conferences and events will be organized all year long, or simultaneously for celebrations like the Wikipedia anniversary. I think Wikimedia local groups will gain in experience with events smaller than Wikimania, and will then be able to provide strong Wikimania bids conferences. Besides, Wikimania doesn't have to grow much larger than it is now, if Wikimedians have regional conferences and events they can attend. In a word, as we grow, I think it'll become easier for the global Wikimedia community to organize both small and large events, Wikimania included. -- Guillaume Paumier [[m:User:guillom]] http://www.gpaumier.org ___ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
