]
Sent: 20 April 2023 10:18
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: [Wikitech-l] Re: Reflecting on my listening tour
No, what I said was that firing people in one country then hiring some else in
another country with the same skills to do the same job just because employment
:49
> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List
> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: [Wikitech-l] Re: Reflecting on my listening
> tour
>
>
>
> Hiring people because they are in such countries as the basis for saving
> money is morally bankrupt, yet we'll happily draw from the pool of
&g
So leave them to rot because their standard of living is low and their
government is crap? Right.
From: Gnangarra [mailto:gnanga...@gmail.com]
Sent: 18 April 2023 13:49
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: [Wikitech-l] Re: Reflecting on my listening tour
Hiring people
April 2023 13:00
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: [Wikitech-l] Re: Reflecting on my listening tour
Either we make software development cheaper somehow (move the WMF to Romania
or something)
Hiring in countries with the worst labour laws and cheapest minimum wages
The discussion about where to hire is way more nuanced than it looks. The
world doesn't split between SF with astronomical salaries and people who
don't have access to clean water but are very cheap to hire.
Some points to consider:
Other cities in the US are cheaper to hire but with comparable
The point here is that getting rid of staff in one country, purely to hire
someone in another country to do the same job for significantly less, is
morally bankrupt. The same issue goes with hiring new people solely from
selected countries for the same reason. We are a global community and that
I think one of the key lessons of software development is that infinite
money doesn't necessarily lead to good software development. I think the
work the new leadership is showing to address the structural flaws will go
a long way. There's certainly nothing immoral about a global non-profit
having
Just to put things into perspective, in Argentina, earning USD 4000 a month
means you're the fucking king. You can rent almost any place you want, buy
food and all necessities, eat out everyday, and have enough left over to
buy some land or a house in a few years. By contrast, a quick Google
or the 3am meetings
On Tue, 18 Apr 2023 at 19:49, Gnangarra wrote:
> Hiring people because they are in such countries as the basis for saving
> money is morally bankrupt, yet we'll happily draw from the pool of
> donations that primarily come from those more expensive countries. Much
> like
Hiring people because they are in such countries as the basis for saving
money is morally bankrupt, yet we'll happily draw from the pool of
donations that primarily come from those more expensive countries. Much
like we talk about equity but decide that some places arent worth engaging
in
Yet in some countries, like mine, paying for food, renting a place, buying
a house, etc. is far cheaper than in the US, so paying a lower salary (in
USD) wouldn't amount to a lower standard of living at all, and doesn't feel
immoral, at least to me.
On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 8:00 AM Gnangarra
>
> Either we make software development cheaper somehow (move the WMF to
> Romania or something)
Hiring in countries with the worst labour laws and cheapest minimum wages
is totally immoral. Especially in a community where equity is part of our
culture we must endeavour to ensure that
I agree with much of what Amir has said here, except one little bit...
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 at 20:52, Amir Sarabadani wrote:
> And even if a software would have an owner, it used to be that the team
> was under so much pressure to produce new things instead of maintenance
> that the software
There always be gaps in ownership and there will be some critical software
left to individuals to keep the lights on. It's an ideal we need to move
towards but we might never reach.
That being said, it really doesn't need to be this bad.
Here is a non-exhaustive list of critical tech currently
On Sat, Apr 15, 2023 at 7:49 AM AntiCompositeNumber <
anticompositenum...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Agreed. It has long been the case that infrastructure critical to the
> operation of the various wikis has been left without a clear
> maintainer, or has been maintained only in the volunteer time of a
>
> "Technical debt" spontaneously brings the following items to my little
mind. They should not be about rewriting but rather "maintenance":
Agreed. It has long been the case that infrastructure critical to the
operation of the various wikis has been left without a clear
maintainer, or has been
On Thu, 2023-04-13 at 20:06 -0700, bawolff wrote:
> > "I think there are lots of promising opportunities to incentivise
> > people to pay off technical debt and make our existing stack more
> > sustainable. Right now there are no incentives for engineers in
> > this regard."
>
> Interesting.
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